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XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 11:48 PM
OK so I'm new, I want to learn, and don't mind getting wacked, it's the only real way to learn, after flying offline for a year I can fly,take off, land (unless something really unique happens) I've been reading the forum here for a long time, and I do what I can to maintain altitude and energy dependent upon the circumstances. But beneath my canopy and above the crew chief my name should read "DEAD MEAT".

I want the p-39 to be my plane, everybody wants "their" own aircraft--- I've tried, b&z and get wacked, t&b and get wacked, low level fast and you guessed it, wacked, I get too evasive and I stall and wack my own self.

( i should'nt have, but I had to continue the word to the bitter end)

I'm not whining about getting wacked but is there just something I'm not thinking of? I am asking, trying to be a better sim flyer and fighter -------any p-39 secrect combat tips I should know about???? I'm thinking of switching to, gasp, the Hurricane--- not because of blaming the P-39 but to contribute alittle more to the side that I happen to be on and I understand that the view from the flaming canopy on the way down might be alittle better if it's my piloting skills that are not good enough.

I need some experienced P-39 driver's advice before I give up my aircraft of choice.
thanks very much

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 11:48 PM
OK so I'm new, I want to learn, and don't mind getting wacked, it's the only real way to learn, after flying offline for a year I can fly,take off, land (unless something really unique happens) I've been reading the forum here for a long time, and I do what I can to maintain altitude and energy dependent upon the circumstances. But beneath my canopy and above the crew chief my name should read "DEAD MEAT".

I want the p-39 to be my plane, everybody wants "their" own aircraft--- I've tried, b&z and get wacked, t&b and get wacked, low level fast and you guessed it, wacked, I get too evasive and I stall and wack my own self.

( i should'nt have, but I had to continue the word to the bitter end)

I'm not whining about getting wacked but is there just something I'm not thinking of? I am asking, trying to be a better sim flyer and fighter -------any p-39 secrect combat tips I should know about???? I'm thinking of switching to, gasp, the Hurricane--- not because of blaming the P-39 but to contribute alittle more to the side that I happen to be on and I understand that the view from the flaming canopy on the way down might be alittle better if it's my piloting skills that are not good enough.

I need some experienced P-39 driver's advice before I give up my aircraft of choice.
thanks very much

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 11:54 PM
Can you define wacked? like everybody outturns and outloops and outshoots you?

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan

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XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 11:54 PM
Check out this post at squadron forum. We are primarily P39 drivers, and are looking for members.

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_sq&id=zzkwu

Also, if want to see something real cool, go to http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/main.html and watch the two training movies about the P39 if you are not interested in a squad. I love the bird, and look forward to seeing you in it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 11:57 PM
You have to determine what you're about to fight to determine how you will fight.

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XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 11:58 PM
Try flying in a DF server where there are good P-39 pilots and make a track and review it later, compare other's techniques to yours. BTW The key to success is not so much how you fly, but in assessing the situation and setting up your moves in order to put yourself in a position to score the kill. Teamwork is usually the key: wait for a bogey to get on ur teammates six, and then when bogey is fixated on the target, you *quickly* get in close and make the kill, then quickly extend.



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XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 12:05 AM
MIG7 wrote:
- Try flying in a DF server where there are good P-39
- pilots and make a track and review it later, compare
- other's techniques to yours.



Why does this remind me of the guy who tapes "episodes" with this girlfriend so he and his buddies can trade tapes?

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XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 12:15 AM
BpGemini wrote:
- You have to determine what you're about to fight to
- determine how you will fight.
-
-

Exactly!

In a dogfight the p39 is a king but only if you are prepared to dance with the devil and fly that lady right up to the edge of her limits consistently and with aggresion.

Otherwise it just wont work.

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XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 12:46 AM
First make sure you've trimmed the rudder - lots of right trim. Center the ball.
Then get lots of altitude.
Get more altitude, 3000-3500m is about right.
Find a 190 at the top of his zoom and blow his wings off - one is ok but both are better. The cockpit is also nice.
Guys that are booming and zooming don't think that someone else may be above them, they are concentrating on the next target and looking down.

Stay high and fast, once you're low in a P39 you're dead.
Practice offline with the arcade arrows on to see if you're hitting anything - Storches make good practice targets.

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Cpt.LoneRanger
06-17-2003, 01:03 AM
I think you noticed the difference between flying and dogfighting:

Flying is all about your skills,
Dogfight is all about your enemies skills.


I think there's no way to win, if you just stick to one tactic, to one maneuver and to one attitude.

You've gotta adapt, improvise, risk everything and sometimes you've just gotta run your *** off.


The P39 is a good plane, I love it and I fly it most of the time. It's quite the right thing for an UT2003 fan like me - aim. fire. headshot.

Besides that, don't be so hard on yourself. Nobody always wins. Just take it easy and enjoy the ride! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

greets
Cpt.LoneRanger

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 01:13 AM
I like to do what bun bun does. Define an area above the furballs, say a 1000 meters above the fights below, and just hang in that area of space. If someone comes up to you, you will have an advantage over them. If they then head to the deck, stay put.

Also, if someone else cruises along that's higher than your little zone, bug out.

When taking off, check which way the enemy base is, and take off in the opposite direction(if possible). Get away, get some height, then come back and head toward the middle of the action.

The P-39 can do some incredible things, but I find that I can't sustain it very long. It great for quick snapshots(with the weighting the way it is) and then it's lag pursuit all the way to maintain E.

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XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 01:58 AM
Thanks very much to all the individuals who responded, I'm definately on my way to the links posted to study what's written and I would enjoy squadron flying if you would'nt mind a new guy. I appreciate all the time and consideration from everyone.

Altitude I know is the key,it's just sometimes getting there while being bounced that's the tough part, the right rudder (trim) comment makes so much sense since I notice the pull on take off. I also appreciated reading about flying to the limits, I know that I am sometimes too conservative, afraid of stalling, and tonight online,managed to recover from a stall and continue so maybe that's a good sign.

I'll try to pay more attention to other P-39 drivers and learn.

I do love the aircraft for it's abilities, firepower and the art deco fighter that it is, after all who else can say that their aircraft has roll up windows and a driver's door, not to mention the gun. I'm going to reread everyone's posting's in detail and thanks so much, I've decided not to give the aircraft up, just try to get better with it no matter what it takes.


thanks again to everyone who responded.
wbuttler

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 02:02 AM
Sorry Ivan

wacked is a slang term for killed, shot,
made to take a dirt nap, aircraft and all.

sorry I should have been more specific.

wbuttler

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 02:54 AM
Bun-Bun1953 wrote:
- Stay high and fast, once you're low in a P39 you're dead.


I don't agree. Low and slow is a lost art form in the P-39. Yes she does drain E quickly, but that doesn't mean you should avoid flying low and slow. It's my opinion that you should learn all aspects in your plane of choice. You never know what situation you'll be thrust into. I allow vulching on my server so learning how to fight in a P-39 while flying low and slow is a necessity and can be very effective. Not to mention that low and fast is the best way to take out TB-3s, He-111s, IL-2s and Stukas.

The P-39 is good in every area and not great in any. She's perfect for me. You just have to know what you're up against. The three variations also give you a little bit of strategy to work with. The N1 is great for the big slow targets and the Q10 is good against fast and nimble ones. The Q1 is right in the middle. Great bird, keep flying her and you won't be sorry.


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XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 03:03 AM
BpGemini wrote:
- Bun-Bun1953 wrote:
-- Stay high and fast, once you're low in a P39 you're dead.
-
-
- I don't agree. Low and slow is a lost art form in
- the P-39. Yes she does drain E quickly, but that
- doesn't mean you should avoid flying low and slow.

You're right...
I should have said, once I'm low and slow in a P39 I'm dead. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Smokejaguar nailed me one time on the square island map
when I got turned around and tried to sneak back to my base
only to find myself low and slow over the enemy base.
I was mostly crippled and we performed a stall fight in the valleys.

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XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 05:11 AM
Bun-Bun1953 wrote:
- You're right...
- I should have said, once I'm low and slow in a P39 I'm dead. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


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Tully__
06-17-2003, 09:12 AM
Maintain speed, maintain altitude, be GENTLE with the controls. Don't fight the plane to make a shot that's not going to happen, you have to be patient. If you're going to miss, concentrate on staying where you can't be shot at and maintaining your energy (speed & altitude) until you can set yourself up so you can get a shot.

How you fly depends on what you're fighting against. Learn the capabilities of the other aircraft in comparison to your own. Do they climb better or worse than you? Can they dive faster? Acclerate better? Turn better?

Once you've identified what you're fighting against, use manouvers that he can't equal to get yourself in a shooting position.

Learn to aim and shoot quickly using short bursts. If you need to settle in behind someone to get a shot, you're setting yourself up as an easy target for his wingman. You must be able to take advantage of brief shooting oppurtunities.

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Cpt.LoneRanger
06-17-2003, 10:18 AM
Actually I like flying VERY low with the P39. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

If you stay above the furball action, everybody regards you as a possible threat or a target at least for some spray and pray.

Sometimes it's a lot more fun to dive to nap of earth, use the energy to sneak into battle and shoot 'em up on pulling up hardly. Usually pilots out there don't think of a low flying plane as a threat, especially those proud aces and many other jockeys just look out of the window, disregarding the blind "lower 6".

Anyway, it's always adaptation. You can use any situation, as an advantage, if you know how! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

greets
Cpt.LoneRanger

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 10:23 AM
I got 10 kills in campaign mission with the p39. Though 3 were fighters and 7 were transportplanes /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 12:17 AM
I have to agree with the capt. when it comes to the isolated times I've saved my butt it's been really low and really fast.

I have saved myself occasionally, in the P-39 at low level really burning along at 0 meters, I have to think though that's it's more me I don't seem to be afraid at all of really low level flight. But I also have to agree with the many other posts about speed and altitude. Thats what the guys that are shooting me up are doing.

I'm on my way online now to try the advice from everyone, thanks again
wbuttler

michapma
06-18-2003, 08:54 AM
BpGemini wrote:
- The P-39 is good in every area and not great in any.

I've seen this said over and over, and disagree somewhat. She's great at least in forward visibility, armament, speed and protection from the rear. She may not be the best in any one area, though possibly in forward visibility, but she is great in a few.

By the way guys, it's whack, as in whacked. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

I suppose since you have been reading these forums so long you have learned to set your convergences. I set my machine guns (MG) and cannon convergences to 150 or 100, usually 150 for MG and 100 for cannon. Gunnery skills makes a huge difference in fighting. Learn to lead in different situations. A lot of times you can get an edge with the MG by getting off a snap-shot when someone is at a very high deflection angle. It's worth a second of ammo to guarantee hits if you can land some rounds in a tough fight. When fighting humans, this gives you a mental advantage because you have hit them and they know it.

Keep in mind that the stuff you have learned against AI doesn't necessarily apply to fighting humans. I have discovered that with live opponents, you simply have to practice. Put in the time, a squadron is a good idea.

I also highly recommend learning to push the plane to its limits. Learn what will induce a stall, how hard you can push a turn without bleeding too much energy, at what angle you need to fly to pick up speed without losing too much altitude, etc.

Regards,
Mike

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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 11:15 PM
Arg! you are so right it is WHACKED, the nun's in school would have worn their elbows out with a ruler on me...The older I get the more the brain spelling zone shrinks...I'm sorry.

I wanted to say that everything I've been told works!!!

Last night I took off with the intent to gain altitude in a stealth like manner, stayed at altitude, chose a target slightly below and circling ( a p-47) closed and hit followed, worried him alittle bit, ( way more that I've ever worried anyone else) and thought I had him, when he returned from the deck (after I thought he was done for) and WHACKED me. Righteously, and justly since I was flying along filled with "lookee at me" accomplishment...my bad....but ladies and gentlemen your advice works. This was by the way cockpit only, complex management, a q-10. I'll be resetting my convergence distance tonight thanks to Mike.

To those who gave such great advice:

I am in awe and moisten your toes with my nostrils.


I actually felt like I accomplished something, flew better and stronger and although scored no victories, felt victorious. Thanks very much.

wbuttler

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 11:24 PM
michapma wrote:
-
- BpGemini wrote:
-- The P-39 is good in every area and not great in any.
-
- I've seen this said over and over, and disagree
- somewhat. She's great at least in forward
- visibility, armament, speed and protection from the
- rear. She may not be the best in any one area,
- though possibly in forward visibility, but she is
- great in a few.


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Actually that's a sentence stated by P-39 fliers and understood by them too. It's not really meant to be dissected, but yes it does have good forward visibility, armament, speed (when taken care of) and protection due to engine placement. Can't believe that went over your head.

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michapma
06-19-2003, 01:35 PM
Gemini,

Actually I disected it because we're in a thread started by someone asking for help in the P-39, who won't be able to take what you said for granted. Thanks. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

wbuttler, this kind of thread reminds me of what this forum is largely about. Makes me feel great to actually deceive myself into thinking I am good enough to help others. I think I'll stay offline for a few days to let that feeling stay. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

Cheers,
Mike

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Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

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<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="left" valign="top">Hardware issues:
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 04:25 PM
Since it's been sometime since I've had my toes moistened... I'd like to contribute too >8)

Here's a little tip that I have yet to test in IL2, but I think it may be true, although I'm having trouble finding any historical data to back it up: When firing the 37mm Cannon, always fire at least a PAIR or rounds off in your snapshots. Supposedly, the 37mm shells were arranged so that every other shell was an exploding round, with plain ballistic slugs in between.

Also... there's at least one single player mission you can download over at IL-2 Hangar for the original IL-2 (I think it's Crimea 5), and there may be some more for FB.

http://srm.racesimcentral.com/il2.shtml

BTW, does anyone know a good place to DL missions or campaigns that feature the Cobra?

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 04:27 PM
Oh yeah... and here's a pretty interesting read on the Ol' Iron Dog, if you're so inclined:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/airacobra_iron_dog.htm

- Blind

Blind-SC- wrote:
- Since it's been sometime since I've had my toes
- moistened... I'd like to contribute too >8)

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 04:37 PM
Blind-SC- wrote:
- Here's a little tip that I have yet to test in IL2,
- but I think it may be true, although I'm having
- trouble finding any historical data to back it up:
- When firing the 37mm Cannon, always fire at least a
- PAIR or rounds off in your snapshots. Supposedly,
- the 37mm shells were arranged so that every other
- shell was an exploding round, with plain ballistic
- slugs in between.



They changed this in FB. Each round is the same now.

<center>
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<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=1)">
<font size=+2><font color="black">FB Rocks /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Still loving my P-39</font></font> </table style>

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 04:37 PM
Oh! And one more thing I learned recently... (I'll shut up any minute now =8) ) If you're having a bit of trouble with your flight stick sensitivity in the Cobra, you may want to try some new settings. I recently put in Oleg's settings and it's definitely helped with my control. Keep in mind, I'm a very new flyer, so I'm naturally ham-handed to begin with, and... everyone's different, so you may hate these. But, it's worth a shot... just make a backup copy of your conf.ini file first so you can revert, then edit it in Notepad and replace the [rts] block you find in there with the following:

[rts_joystick]
X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
FF=0
U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1X=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1Y=0 5 9 15 23 31 42 54 67 79 91 0
1RZ=0 0 4 11 17 28 38 49 61 78 98 0
1U=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

I'm running these with a Thrustmaster Afterburner II and I like the results so far. I may tweak a little as I go, but this is a good start for me.

- Blind

Blind-SC- wrote:
- Oh yeah... and here's a pretty interesting read on
- the Ol' Iron Dog, if you're so inclined:

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 04:40 PM
Really? Crap... I thought that was kinda cool. I wonder why they yanked it?


BpGemini wrote:
-
- Blind-SC- wrote:
-- Here's a little tip that I have yet to test in IL2,
-- but I think it may be true, although I'm having
-- trouble finding any historical data to back it up:
-- When firing the 37mm Cannon, always fire at least a
-- PAIR or rounds off in your snapshots. Supposedly,
-- the 37mm shells were arranged so that every other
-- shell was an exploding round, with plain ballistic
-- slugs in between.
-
-
-
- They changed this in FB. Each round is the same now.

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 04:43 PM
Blind-SC- wrote:
- I wonder why they yanked it?
-


Because of mucho whinage/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

&lt;script>a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor="#005E4D";oa=a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundPosition="center center";oa.backgroundRepeat="no-repeat"</script>
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<center><b/><table style="filter:glow[color=#FF0000,strength=4)"><TD><font color="#1A0000"face="americanabt">I love my P39.... Doh!
<font></table></center>

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 04:47 PM
michapma wrote:
- Gemini,
-
- Actually I disected it because we're in a thread
- started by someone asking for help in the P-39, who
- won't be able to take what you said for granted.
- Thanks. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif



Oh sure, if you want to take the fun out of philosophy!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



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<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=1)">
<font size=+2><font color="black">FB Rocks /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Still loving my P-39</font></font> </table style>

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 04:49 PM
Awww, crap.... really? But it's true! I just found a few places on the net where they say the US shipped 1.2 million M54 High Explosive roudns to the Russians through the Lend Lease program. Apparently they were being widely used.


SmokeJaguar wrote:
- Blind-SC- wrote:
-- I wonder why they yanked it?
-
- Because of mucho whinage

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 04:49 PM
hi wbuttler
I have an P-39N track from the 79 or 80th mission in the USSR fighter campaign on my hardisk. In this one i shoot down 5 enemy fighter planes in an somewhat equal interception. The difficulty setting is padlock on and external views on, so you can easily see what im doing. Maybe you could learn some from it?
If you are interested just give me you mail-adress and ill send it too you, if anybody else want it just give the email they too

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 10:55 PM
I appreciate it broder
email: healer4u@gate.net
thanks very much for the offer
i appreciate it and am looking forward to seeing the film.
thanks
wbuttler

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 11:31 PM
You guys ARE that good mike and the advice is on the money. I'm livin' longer and larger already. Everything you told me works!

In the matrix there is no spoon.


wbuttler

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 07:37 PM
the engine is not what i would call well protected. Its the first thing that goes if you are hit, if attacked from rear, which you usually get it from. The engine is placed excactly where bullets are likely to hit, in the rear. Only if you are attacked from the front it good protected, though its your body that is protecting it..

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 08:00 PM
broder_balle wrote:
- the engine is not what i would call well protected.
- Its the first thing that goes if you are hit, if
- attacked from rear, which you usually get it from.
- The engine is placed excactly where bullets are
- likely to hit, in the rear. Only if you are attacked
- from the front it good protected, though its your
- body that is protecting it..


I think you meant to direct this toward Michapma. I was merely agreeing with him on this point.

However I will take it. I don't agree with your statement. The engine is center mounted, not rear mounted. Which means there is a chunk of plane in front of and behind the engine. Also tactically it is a better placement for head-ons. I rarely get my pilot killed, so engine placement in the front is not necessary or needed for greater protection. With the engine mounted in the center it seems to hardly ever gets tanked. That alone should give you a clue. In any other front mounted engine aircraft the engine has a shorter life span in my experience and opinion.





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<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=1)">
<font size=+2><font color="black">Still loving my P-39</font></font> </table style>
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
<table style="filter:glow[color=green,strength=4)"> www.blitzpigs.com</center> (http://www.blitzpigs.com</center>) </table style>

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 10:49 PM
sorry, i didnt intend to reply to your post, I dont know theres something messed up when I reply t people,, it shows up as a reply to things i didnt reply or it fall downs to the bottom when I reply to the guy at the top. Anyway, you might have right, though it always seems to me that the engine is the first thing that gets messed up when I fly the p39. Ive flow 40 missions with it in campaign mode and the engine have started to smoke/burn/explode much more often than other planes that ive flown.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 10:59 PM
broder_balle wrote:
- Anyway, you might have right,
- though it always seems to me that the engine is the
- first thing that gets messed up when I fly the p39.
- Ive flow 40 missions with it in campaign mode and
- the engine have started to smoke/burn/explode much
- more often than other planes that ive flown.


Really? I don't play the offline missions so that's possible. Online the engine getting fudged rarely happens to me.




<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif

<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=1)">
<font size=+2><font color="black">Still loving my P-39</font></font> </table style>
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
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