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View Full Version : Morally Dark Assassins: Part 2



EmbodyingSeven5
10-09-2014, 12:37 AM
I do love my dose of moral grayness in a game. its cool to think that what your doing is wrong or it could be the only answer sometimes. the complexity of it is interesting. I just believe it gets dumb when people shoehorn it into a game ya know? every once in a while its nice to have a game without moral grayness. just knowing your doing good feels nice in a game. as we no AC 2, AC Brotherhood and a little bit of revelation's had little of this. do I hate those games for it........ no, not at all. do I think the scales should be balanced? YES. I am still hoping for and AC with dark Assassins. ( which im hoping Rogue will deliver on). maybe assassins that enjoy their job. or Assassin that are plain out jerks like that one Templar in each game.........http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mckxiu8o4v1qkg5m1o2_1280.png

arguments suck for Templar fans because someone could just point to the Ezio trilogy and go........ See! they are corruptible!!

given we have seen this slightly with some assassins........ but not enough for me to belive they are as easily courrupted.

OR make a game where we play as a dark Assassin character. killing a civilian that spots you and is about to cry out. doing an air assassin on a Templar and watching a sick animation of the assassin stabbing him multiply times to show hes enjoying himself.

Maybe play as a psychotic Assassin who gets strange visions from his out of control eagle sense. maybe this causes him to act differently or talk strange? overall I want an AC game with down to the bone dark, Evil crazy bloodlust ASSASSINS!!

Edit: Yay!! 300th post!!

dxsxhxcx
10-09-2014, 01:11 AM
make a game where we play as a dark Assassin character. killing a civilian that spots you and is about to cry out (Altair used to do this with the informants) doing an air assassin on a Templar and watching a sick animation of the assassin stabbing him multiply times to show hes enjoying himself. (Ezio did this with Vieri and that Templar at Masyaf if I'm not wrong)


IMO a "dark" Assassin Order would feel forced as hell because one of their tenets go exactly against the kind of behaviour you're suggesting and I doubt that any established branch of the Assassin Order would allow this to happen for enough time to corrupt the entire branch, I think the "darkest" an Assassin can become is turn into a Templar and we'll see that happening in AC Rogue.

EmbodyingSeven5
10-09-2014, 01:14 AM
IMO a "dark" Assassin Order would feel forced as hell because one of their tenets go exactly against the kind of behaviour you're suggesting, I think the darkest an Assassin can become is turn into a Templar and we'll see that happening in AC Rogue.

EVERTHING IS PERMITTED. also innocence is measured differently by many. and I don't think the Templars in tended on being corrupted like they were in the ezio trilogy.

DumbGamerTag94
10-09-2014, 01:19 AM
I feel characters like Pierre Bellec may be the morally grey assassin in our future.

hes a very pre-altair orthodox assassin, and he seems to have a no-nonsense, doesn't like to waste time and beat around the bush attitude, and he seems like the type to do whatever is necessary to accomplish his mission. According to his bio he also has Jacobin sympathies, and we know how they ran things. I wonder if Pierre will support the idea of the Terror

EmbodyingSeven5
10-09-2014, 01:21 AM
i wonder if pierre will support the idea of the terror

lick batman?

a morally grey Assassin is ok but I want a dark and twisted one!!!!!!!!

HiddenKiller612
10-09-2014, 02:48 AM
EVERTHING IS PERMITTED. also innocence is measured differently by many. and I don't think the Templars in tended on being corrupted like they were in the ezio trilogy.
Have you learned nothing about this? Also, you just want the Assassin's to be portrayed evil so the Templar's aren't the only ones to be shown evil. So instead of people pointing to the Ezio games saying "SEE THE TEMPLARS ARE CORRUPTIBLE" and you can point to X game and say "SEE THE ASSASSIN'S ARE CORRUPTIBLE",

Layytez
10-09-2014, 03:03 AM
EVERTHING IS PERMITTED. also innocence is measured differently by many. and I don't think the Templars in tended on being corrupted like they were in the ezio trilogy.
Mass amounts of power and control corrupts.

EmbodyingSeven5
10-09-2014, 03:03 AM
Have you learned nothing about this? Also, you just want the Assassin's to be portrayed evil so the Templar's aren't the only ones to be shown evil. So instead of people pointing to the Ezio games saying "SEE THE TEMPLARS ARE CORRUPTIBLE" and you can point to X game and say "SEE THE ASSASSIN'S ARE CORRUPTIBLE",

both of these societies....... LIKE MANY OTHERS... can become corrupted. Also an assassin that views the creed a different way will see everything is permitted and take it quite literally. like Edward ( At FIRST did). Also im not a fan of the Templars and sadly I am not questioning whether or not their views are right in any way. because the Templars way too often have a horrible person or flat jerk killer in the society. I just want tings to be balanced in a productive way so I can side with the Templars every once in awhile....... and yes I did play each game!!! I am not looking to demonize Assassins!! nor am I looking to demonize Templars!!

HiddenKiller612
10-09-2014, 03:08 AM
both of these societies....... LIKE MANY OTHERS... can become corrupted. Also an assassin that views the creed a different way will see everything is permitted and take it quite literally. like Edward ( At FIRST did).
there's a reason why Edward wasn't admitted into the Assassin's beyond the obvious... He didn't fully understand the creed. Admit it though, you only want to see a morally corrupt assassin because then focus would be shifted away from the Templars for once, you've already said you favor the Templars

EmbodyingSeven5
10-09-2014, 03:11 AM
there's a reason why Edward wasn't admitted into the Assassin's beyond the obvious... He didn't fully understand the creed. Admit it though, you only want to see a morally corrupt assassin because then focus would be shifted away from the Templars for once, you've already said you favor the Templars

no I didn't. I just want to question myself ever once in awhile

Layytez
10-09-2014, 03:16 AM
I would just like for once a character who has a Templar background become an Assassin. It's always Assassin background then become a Templar.

LoyalACFan
10-09-2014, 03:37 AM
I mean, Edward is about as morally dark as you can get without going full psychopath. For most of his game his philosophy was "I'm gonna take what I want, and **** you up if you get in my way" (Altair was a bit like this for a while too). To me, that's ACTUAL moral darkness; not some cheesy brooding guy who delights in his own evilness. The worst people on Earth don't think of themselves as the bad guys.

Also, brooding dark characters are boring as hell as protagonists (coughcoughAidenPearcecough)

Namikaze_17
10-09-2014, 04:00 AM
I feel characters like Pierre Bellec may be the morally grey assassin in our future.

hes a very pre-altair orthodox assassin, and he seems to have a no-nonsense, doesn't like to waste time and beat around the bush attitude, and he seems like the type to do whatever is necessary to accomplish his mission. According to his bio he also has Jacobin sympathies, and we know how they ran things. I wonder if Pierre will support the idea of the Terror

Judging from the trailer when Arno said: "Your the one that can save the Brotherhood!?"
Then Pierre says: "We can do it Together." in some sympathetic voice in trying to convince Arno.

Then what you said about Pierre supporting the Terror, could be reason enough for Arno being sent to kill him. ( Hence the spear through the window)

LoyalACFan
10-09-2014, 04:05 AM
Judging from the trailer when Arno said: "Your the one that can save the Brotherhood!?"
Then Pierre says: "We can do it Together." in some sympathetic voice in trying to convince Arno.

Then what you said about Pierre supporting the Terror, could be reason enough for Arno being sent to kill him. ( Hence the spear through the window)

I'm not so sure, I feel like it could be referencing Mirabeau's corruption. He seems to be the main dude in the Brotherhood (not sure if they have an actual leader or not after Dorian Sr. died) and if he's as corrupt in-game as he was speculated to be in life, it could be that Pierre is actually the uncorrupted one who's legitimately trying to save the Assassin ideal. And he's trying to convince Arno not because he's a radical, but because Arno just doesn't like him. After all... Pierre's kind of a d!ck. Perhaps a loveable one, but a d!ck nonetheless.

Namikaze_17
10-09-2014, 04:19 AM
I'm not so sure, I feel like it could be referencing Mirabeau's corruption. He seems to be the main dude in the Brotherhood (not sure if they have an actual leader or not after Dorian Sr. died) and if he's as corrupt in-game as he was speculated to be in life, it could be that Pierre is actually the uncorrupted one who's legitimately trying to save the Assassin ideal. And he's trying to convince Arno not because he's a radical, but because Arno just doesn't like him. After all... Pierre's kind of a d!ck. Perhaps a loveable one, but a d!ck nonetheless.

Yes, that makes more sense. Just trailer can be tricky you know? ;)

But I still do hold this vibe that Pierre is trying to save the Brotherhood, but does extreme measures to achieve his goals.

And the window thing could also be like in AC3 when Connor speared Haytham to save themselves.

Hans684
10-09-2014, 05:09 AM
Just give both orders the same treatment, ultimate grayness. Not a fan of hero fantasies.

LoyalACFan
10-09-2014, 10:36 AM
Just give both orders the same treatment, ultimate grayness. Not a fan of hero fantasies.

Meh. You don't have to portray both sides equally, just as long as one side doesn't become the cardboard cutout "for teh evulz" villains. Every conflict has passionate, well-reasoned opinions on both sides, but in some cases most objective observers would see one side as good and the other as bad. If there was ever an AC in WWII, for instance (which I hope with all my might there won't be) I wouldn't want the game to try and straddle the line and paint both sides as equally egregious.

Farlander1991
10-09-2014, 01:10 PM
It's ironic how there's this weird fascination on the forums with having an Assassin protagonist who's a horrible human being, and yet at the same time have a lot of criticism about likes of Connor and Edward for not being "true" assassins.

cawatrooper9
10-09-2014, 02:49 PM
IMO a "dark" Assassin Order would feel forced as hell because one of their tenets go exactly against the kind of behaviour you're suggesting and I doubt that any established branch of the Assassin Order would allow this to happen for enough time to corrupt the entire branch, I think the "darkest" an Assassin can become is turn into a Templar and we'll see that happening in AC Rogue.

Actually, in his codex Altair explains that the idea of an order actually might be problematic:
"What follows are the three great ironies of the Assassin Order: (1) Here we seek to promote peace, but murder is our means. (2) Here we seek to open the minds of men, but require obedience to a master and set of rules. (3) Here we seek to reveal the danger of blind faith, yet we are practitioners ourselves."

So, the very fact that an order exists might be reason enough for it to eventually be corrupted.

fcederberg
10-09-2014, 03:16 PM
I think LA Noire is an excellent example of this. In the beginning you think that Cole is a nice guy but the more you play the more you hate him.

Kakuzu745
10-09-2014, 04:07 PM
I think LA Noire is an excellent example of this. In the beginning you think that Cole is a nice guy but the more you play the more you hate him.

LA Noire was benchmark at doing this. At the end of the game I did not even feel any sympathy for him.

Hans684
10-09-2014, 04:09 PM
Meh. You don't have to portray both sides equally, just as long as one side doesn't become the cardboard cutout "for teh evulz" villains.

True but they should be equally, it isn't gray when it leans agains a curtain side. I'm not saying they should be on equally level in the same game(still can) but just give them the same treatments.


Every conflict has passionate, well-reasoned opinions on both sides, but in some cases most objective observers would see one side as good and the other as bad.

True but not much shown.


If there was ever an AC in WWII, for instance (which I hope with all my might there won't be) I wouldn't want the game to try and straddle the line and paint both sides as equally egregious.

It's a WW, to much bloodshed to have a good side, they don't need to be equal but neither good in this case.

fcederberg
10-09-2014, 04:39 PM
LA Noire was benchmark at doing this. At the end of the game I did not even feel any sympathy for him.

Exactly! I love the game because of that. I remember being so confused about how to feel about this the first time I played it because I hadn't seen anything like that before in a game. I think that's great storytelling IMO.