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sdcruz
08-28-2004, 06:34 PM
In SH2, no matter whether it is early in the war or whether surfaced or submerged, the first time you detect a ship is always by the hydrophones - This is really annoying as I believe that hydrophones were only used to detect ships whilst submerged and later in the war - will this realism be portrayed in SH3?

Regards

sdcruz
08-28-2004, 06:34 PM
In SH2, no matter whether it is early in the war or whether surfaced or submerged, the first time you detect a ship is always by the hydrophones - This is really annoying as I believe that hydrophones were only used to detect ships whilst submerged and later in the war - will this realism be portrayed in SH3?

Regards

HeibgesU999
08-28-2004, 06:38 PM
I think that will have to be left up to the individual player, as to how often they do soundchecks.

But I agree, that it is the most disgusting form of cheating to be doing soundchecks 3 or 4 times per day, especially early in the War.

sdcruz
08-28-2004, 06:49 PM
What I mean to say is that in Sh3, the only way to detect ships is by visual sighting when your on the surface, not through hydrophones if your on the surface. Only later in the war should you be able to detect ships through hydrophone and only whilst submerged!

Regards

jeroen-79
08-28-2004, 06:50 PM
Why would 4 soundchecks a day be cheating?

I agree that the boats should have historically correct equipment and that the sonar should work with historically correct performance.

But what would prevent the soundman from sitting behind his wheel all day long?

HeibgesU999
08-28-2004, 07:08 PM
Sorry for the confusion. Because the have to be submerged to do a sound check. Uboats stayed on the surface as much as they could.

The hydrophones were only used to find convoys in bad weather or in extenuating circumstances. As the U.Kdt.Hdb says "The place of the submarine is on the surface."

hauitsme
08-29-2004, 12:42 AM
Fine. You stay on the surface, and I won't, and we'll see who survives the longest. During daylight hours is definitely a suicidal tendency. It's always a good habit to submerge often to 'listen' to what's around you. Those who don't will not survive long.

If you consider this cheating, then I'm going to CHEAT all through the war. I'll live and you'll die.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/dead.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

Teddy Bar
08-29-2004, 02:23 AM
hauitsme is right in that it is not cheating to do submerged sound checks, even 50 a day. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The issue is that in previous games, even AOD, the sound detection has been greatly enhanced beyond realism. So the act of submerging attained greater results than it should have.

Depending on conditions it is possible for a ship at a distance of 1000 metres (Australian Spelling) not to be detected by sound. It is also possible to hear a ship many tens of miles away.

I also believe that hauitsme is incorrect about submerging and using sound will help you live longer. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Whilst sound can travel incredible distances within water we must take into consideration where the sound is originating from. The sound that we wish to detect is coming from just below the surface. This is not a great place for sound generation to travel incredible distances. The roughness of the ocean, the wind and the infamous thermal layers all contribute to diluting, masking and impeding the travel of the sound.

U-boats did not submerge during the day as the only way to be successfuly find your target is by lookouts. When they can't see far because of the rain then submerging will very rarely allow you to hear what you cannot see.

I hope that at the higher realism settings that we will no longer have our all hearing sound gear!

Cheers,

Teddy B¤r

HeibgesU999
08-29-2004, 03:19 PM
Actually Hautisme, I manage to play exactly according to the tenants of the U.Kdt.Hdb and still survive.

As Doenitz said "The place of the uboat is on the surface". Only in extreme circumstances did they use hydrophones to find convoys.

But I would rather play realistically and die, then play it like a video game and live.

Anyone is free to use the software as a true simulator, or,like many, to score 100k every patrol and play it like a video game.

hauitsme
08-29-2004, 04:50 PM
Are you guys nut's? What, just because the 'book' says the place of the u-boat is on the surface you're gonna stay on the suface till you can't?(i.e. get sunk) If you go by the 'book' then why were they able to submerge? What, for fun? You keep your 'book', I'll keep my life!(and my crews). And go on more patrols. You'll just start over again.(where's THAT in you're book?)

'U-boats did not submerge during the day': Remember that everybody. No worries. You can't be spotted by aircraft.(you're on the surface, they can't see you!)

'When they can't see far because of the rain then submerging will very rarely allow you to hear what you cannot see.': Who said anything about 'rain'? What about weeks/months of perfectly clear weather?

'It is also possible to hear a ship many tens of miles away.': EXACTLY

'it is possible for a ship at a distance of 1000 metres (Australian Spelling) not to be detected by sound.': What are periscopes for, bird watching?

You'll NEVER convince me that "The place of the uboat is on the surface". If I want to fight the enemy 'on the surface', I'll get a 'surface' ship. Shelling or torpedoing an unarmed merchant is not fighting.

Remember, "The place of the uboat is on the surface" when you meet up with that taskforce of combat ships, aircraft, etc.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/box2.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

Shan_Hackett
08-30-2004, 04:42 PM
German U-Boats had a ranging variety of sound detection systems. progressivley advancing through the war years to meet the changing tactics. (Spending more time surmerged, due to Allied surface/air activity.)

Even as the 1st U-Boats were being built in 1936. Most were fitted with multiple detection devices. namely - though not always. KDB - Kristalldrehbasisgerat. (Which is what most people reconize through "Das Boot" as the rotating hydrophone on the upper casing.)
Which could give bearings to an accuracy of plus/minus 1 degree, but only had an effective range of 11nm in good conditions, and only worked submerged - due to the sensors location.

In addition to the KDB, most U-Boats had a suplimentary system, again which current system used varied greatly.

One such system used was the GHG - Gruppenhorchgerat ,or group listening equipment.
This system could detect single ships at upto 20kms and convoys at nearly 100kms.
The receivers were placed in an arc, just over the forward dive planes, initialy there 11 each side, but upgraded to 24 receivers each side.
This system on its own was largely inaccurate at determing bearing, used more as an "Early Warning" device. Although it could be used while travelling on the surface, the proximity of the receivers so close to the surface rendered it less effective than the crew lookouts.

Another common system was the UT - Unterwesserhorchgerat, underwater listening equipment, which was mainly used instead of the KDB, and more common on pre-war, and early war U-Boats. The receivers (8 of initialy -4 per side) were placed in pairs a little higher than the arced GHG receivers, but had the same disadvantages as the GHG, and much the same range as the KDB.