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View Full Version : Average survavibility during WW2?



XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:04 AM
While the the article about the point system and kills of german aces are complete waste of webspace(thread by maxim26) it contains some stuff that can be trusted(the author is russian), namely the average survavibility of VVS pilots during the Great Patriotic war:

on average:
fighter pilot: 64 missions
bomber pilot: 48 missions
sturmovik pilot:11 missions
torpedo bomber:3.8 missions(Yes, les than 4 flights)

and also, the author of the article was told by a witness, that from 200 graduates form a boardgunner school, after the war only 1 had survived, losing his leg!

Do you have any info about the german/allied pilots` rate of survival?

and last but not least, this article convinced me the ship flak in not overmodelled. MY God! 3.8 missions?!!!

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king."

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:04 AM
While the the article about the point system and kills of german aces are complete waste of webspace(thread by maxim26) it contains some stuff that can be trusted(the author is russian), namely the average survavibility of VVS pilots during the Great Patriotic war:

on average:
fighter pilot: 64 missions
bomber pilot: 48 missions
sturmovik pilot:11 missions
torpedo bomber:3.8 missions(Yes, les than 4 flights)

and also, the author of the article was told by a witness, that from 200 graduates form a boardgunner school, after the war only 1 had survived, losing his leg!

Do you have any info about the german/allied pilots` rate of survival?

and last but not least, this article convinced me the ship flak in not overmodelled. MY God! 3.8 missions?!!!

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king."

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 01:50 PM
Better statistics for this would be the mena value.

If you have 100 pilots where 99 of them survive 1 mission and 1 survives 100 the average survivable number of missions would be 1.99 or rounded to 2.

The mean value would be though 1 mission and this represents better what happens because vast majority of pilots actually survived 1 mission and not 2... and only 1 did good with 100 missions.

This is not much of a big difference but it does represent the big picture better.

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 03:08 PM
Found this for what it is worth:


Stats for USAAC losses to ALL causes:

Tour Of Duty % KIA or MIA

Fighters (300 combat hours) 24%
Medium bombers (50 missions 48%
Heavy bombers (30 missions) 71%



Germany casualty statistics:

By D-Day, 35% of all German soldiers had been wounded at least once, 11% twice, 6% three times, 2% four times and 2% more than 4 times

‚∑The average officer slot had to be refilled 9.2 times

‚∑Germany lost 136 Generals, which averages out to be 1 dead General every 2 weeks

Germany lost 110 Division Commanders in combat

‚∑
Air attacks caused 1/3 of German Generals' deaths



‚∑80% of Soviet males born in 1923 didn't survive WWII

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 03:13 PM
scary ,and sad

<ceter>http://www.boners.com/content/787392.1.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 03:31 PM
Ankanor wrote:
and last but not least, this article convinced me the ship flak in not overmodelled. MY God! 3.8 missions?!!!


I'm currently reading a report on the big sea battles in the Pacific. During the battle of Midway, 4 japanese carriers where sunk. The torpedo bombers where the first on site, flying low, nearly all dead after the attack and zero hits on target. The author says they where useful because they drew the enemy fighters down on the deck, letting the dive bombers do their jobs easily.

Yes, hard job.

<center>

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/slow-gold/florent/signature.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 03:59 PM
McCallaway, do not forget that the ships in the PTO were "loaded" with AA guns unlike those ships we have in FB. There was also a much higher concentration of ships than is in FB.

The Carrier Strike Force (Admiral Nagumo):

CV Akagi (+)
CV Kaga (+)
CV Hiryu (+)
CV Soryu (+)
2 Battleships
2 Heavy Cruisers
1 Light cruiser
11 Destroyers

Just the AA guns on 2 carriers for example. The Kaga had 16x5"/40cal (dual mountings), 25 25mm and 30 13.2mm mg. The Hiryu had 12-5 in. (6x2), and 37-25 mm.

'+' = sunk

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 04:09 PM
You're right Milo, and additionnaly I think it was short range fire during Midway while in FB, it's mainly the long range accurate fire that is (was ?) annoying.

And precision about Midway, the low success rate of the torpedo bombers was in part due to the type of the torpedoes that were too slow and easily avoided by the japanese. Some japanese officer even said that they didn't seem to move at all.

<center>

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/slow-gold/florent/signature.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 04:29 PM
I'm currently reading a book called "Spitfires,Mustangs, and Warm Beer". It's about an American pilot who flew w/ RAF during BOB and was later transferred into the US Army Air Corps once it got set up in England.He includes a picture of his training class and in that picture those KIA are marked w/ an "X", while those so severely wounded they never flew again w/ a "O". It is sad to see that only three of them survived the war out of a class of about 40 pilots.

http://jg50.com/images/NewSig.jpg

http://www.jg50.com

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 06:24 PM
No data to add on my side, but I want to compliment you all with an excellent thread, which is a very good answer to those demandinding ultra-realism in FB.
They'd have to face, among others:
-planes simply crashing into them after attacking them (how many times did I crash into my own taget?)
-being shot down by friendly AAA or friendly planes
-simply having their plane break down due to unpredictable mechanic failures
etc. etc.