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Dead1y-Derri
09-28-2014, 04:38 PM
One thing I've always disliked about this series is the side missions tend to be awfully reptitive e.g. go here, kill this guy. While Unity does look promising in avoiding this from what I've seen, I have a feeling Rouge is going to do this.

Does anyone else hope they'll avoid repetitive side missions?

I'm more making this plea after playing Watch Dogs, I must have spent an age doing some of the 'Investigation' missions which usually was *go here, scan this*

It kind of got a little annoying.

EDIT: I've copied my post I made later in this thread as it goes more in depth to what I mean.



Anything can be simplified into "go there, do this" it's about how you spice up "going there" and how you enhance "doing this" Nothing wrong with having numerous "go there, do this"s. it's how each is different.

Please don't be like that, of course everything can be summed up like that if you put it like that but in the context I'm talking about was the side missions such as AC: Black Flag, the assassination missions basically had you do the following

- Start the mission
-Go to target Area
-Identify Target
-Kill Target

Now that would be fine if you only had 10 Assassination Contracts but when you have tons of them, it gets old because eventually you run out of idea of how to make them fun and interesting. I eventually started hiding in a bush and shooting them in the head as it was easy and I wanted to get them over with because the back story of why I should assassinate them wasn't too interesting (although I did read it) and assassinating them didn't give me any information.

I mean they could have added cut scenes, more intelligent enemies, have them run away.

Some were diverse, I remember one on an Island, you had two brothers and you killed one brother and the other ran to his ship and you had a nice chase battle etc which was nice but that was one of the few more diverse assassination missions.

Watch Dogs did the same thing, you'd go around having to scan hard drives or codes and it didn't mean all that much and usually wasn't that fun to do but the insisted on adding 10 of them or 20 of them, even when they weren't that interesting to anyone.

Sometimes you'd get Audio Logs but you'd loose track of what the previous one said unless you did them all consecutively and didn't get distracted by other things which is quite hard to do as you can be easily distracted.

Overall, everyone on this thread apart from you has agreed with me that the SIDE Missions/Tasks are repetitive.

I'll also edit my first post with this post as I feel I've explained it better in this post than in my first post.

Alphacos007
09-28-2014, 04:43 PM
In the last strem they had about Rogue, they mentioned a side mission in which you were to counter the assassination missions, for example intercepting a bird with a assasination message and then go and stop the assassin who accepted the mission, so I believe they'll be the same way of AC4, 4 or 5 different types on mission, and something like 10 of each for you to do.
Short answer: I believe they'll keep the repetitive missions in Rogue.

LoadedTowel94
09-28-2014, 05:50 PM
I can understand the assassination contracts being so repetitive, but I'd rather not see anything else

AssassinHMS
09-28-2014, 06:56 PM
One thing I've always disliked about this series is the side missions tend to be awfully reptitive e.g. go here, kill this guy. While Unity does look promising in avoiding this from what I've seen, I have a feeling Rouge is going to do this.

Does anyone else hope they'll avoid repetitive side missions?

I'm more making this plea after playing Watch Dogs, I must have spent an age doing some of the 'Investigation' missions which usually was *go here, scan this*

It kind of got a little annoying.

The problem isn't the type of missions/activities but rather their repetitive and weak structure. Assassin’s Creed doesn’t need anything more than investigations and assassination missions. The problem is the lack of effort put into them.
In a game about Assassins, if 2 assassination missions feel similar or repetitive you know something is wrong. Adding other type of missions such as races, beat–up events, guild quests, homestead missions, naval, etc. is just an attempt to run away from the problem. Before anything else, Assassin’s Creed must deliver great, both main and side, assassination missions and investigations because that is, essentially, what an Assassin does. It's also the main purpose of AC's core.
AC’s side missions could be exclusively assassination missions and investigations if they were done properly.
Unfortunately, throughout the years, Assassin’s Creed proved to be worse at what it should do best. So, if the best Ubisoft can do to avoid repetitive content is to add an array of different types of side activities to the rudimentary assassination missions, then so be it but it’s a waste of Assassin’s Creed potential.

Sushiglutton
09-28-2014, 08:14 PM
I agree with you that Ubi games have suffered from feeling repetetive. They create one mission type and then copy past it dozens of time to fill out the world. This is okeyish for some missions types, while others feel real tired after just a couple of them. To be fair all developers do this more or less in OW games as it's the only feasible way of producing enough content.

For Unity they claim they have had a "1000 stories of Paris" approach, meaning that all content has some historical tie/narrative. If so that would be great and reduce the feeling of repeated content. We'll see about that.

Overall I def think Ubi needs to inject a more handcrafted feel into their sidecontent and throw the worst 20% or so in the garbage bin.

RinoTheBouncer
09-28-2014, 08:43 PM
This thread should be made sticky, really. I’ve always thought that side missions are always very repetitive and annoying, not to mention the pointless collectibles of 200 Data Fragments or 100 feathers or whatever. I wish we get side missions with a story value and variable missions.

Fatal-Feit
09-28-2014, 09:01 PM
The problem isn't the type of missions/activities but rather their repetitive and weak structure. Assassin’s Creed doesn’t need anything more than investigations and assassination missions. The problem is the lack of effort put into them.
In a game about Assassins, if 2 assassination missions feel similar or repetitive you know something is wrong. Adding other type of missions such as races, beat–up events, guild quests, homestead missions, naval, etc. is just an attempt to run away from the problem. Before anything else, Assassin’s Creed must deliver great, both main and side, assassination missions and investigations because that is, essentially, what an Assassin does. It's also the main purpose of AC's core.
AC’s side missions could be exclusively assassination missions and investigations if they were done properly.
Unfortunately, throughout the years, Assassin’s Creed proved to be worse at what it should do best. So, if the best Ubisoft can do to avoid repetitive content is to add an array of different types of side activities to the rudimentary assassination missions, then so be it but it’s a waste of Assassin’s Creed potential.

''It's better to work around the problem than fixing it.'' - Alex Amancio

Assassin_M
09-28-2014, 09:27 PM
Anything can be simplified into "go there, do this" it's about how you spice up "going there" and how you enhance "doing this" Nothing wrong with having numerous "go there, do this"s. it's how each is different.

AssassinHMS
09-28-2014, 09:36 PM
''It's better to work around the problem than fixing it.'' - Alex Amancio

Did he really say that? That sums up the franchise's evolution pretty well. It's weird though since Unity's devs seem to be willing to do the exact opposite and fix some of AC's problems. According to that quote, they should be trying to cover them up, as is tradition.

Journey93
09-28-2014, 09:39 PM
I agree even the main missions are affected just look at Black Flag (the annoying tailing missions,, oh god bad memories)
Rogue will probably be the same because its pretty clear that they didn't put any real effort in it
but from the Unity gameplay videos it seems that they stepped up their game

topeira1980
09-28-2014, 10:13 PM
The problem isn't the type of missions/activities but rather their repetitive and weak structure. Assassinís Creed doesnít need anything more than investigations and assassination missions. The problem is the lack of effort put into them.
In a game about Assassins, if 2 assassination missions feel similar or repetitive you know something is wrong. Adding other type of missions such as races, beatĖup events, guild quests, homestead missions, naval, etc. is just an attempt to run away from the problem. Before anything else, Assassinís Creed must deliver great, both main and side, assassination missions and investigations because that is, essentially, what an Assassin does. It's also the main purpose of AC's core.
ACís side missions could be exclusively assassination missions and investigations if they were done properly.
Unfortunately, throughout the years, Assassinís Creed proved to be worse at what it should do best. So, if the best Ubisoft can do to avoid repetitive content is to add an array of different types of side activities to the rudimentary assassination missions, then so be it but itís a waste of Assassinís Creed potential.

a good post.

personally i think the problem with those meaningless repetitive side quests like in WD where you need to eavesdrop on someones' conversation, stop one dude from doing a crime or scan something is that these quests are shallow and too easy. personally i didnt bother with them. the only side quests i really enjoyed were the ones that were challenging and tense. i also liked stopping random crimes and following the criminal until he called for backup. then i'd kill the bastard and had a fun firefight in the streets.

calling a game repetitive is silly to me. a racing game is repetitive yet ppl dont complain. NBA or FIFA is repetitive. you only do one thing over and over again yet no one complains. why do ppl complain in a game like AC? the point of a game is to give you something to do that is so much fun that you enjoy doing it over and over again. if the side missions in games were really fun to you than you'd enjoy them. i loved the GANG HIDEOUT missions in WD. same as the convoy missions. they were fun and engaging. i hate the collecting missions. in AC or batman i never collected anything. i am not a proud owner of an OCD nor of a collection of useless feathers from italy. i only play what is actual fun to do and not what just grants me a badge for sticking with it inspite of it being boring or simplistic.
all these collecting missions in game feel like if my son want to play i'd just turn a cereal box over and spill it and tell him it's a game to pick them all up. it's lazy, insulting and meaningless.
Ubi can create repetitive SQ in games, IMO, just make them FUN! make them GOOD and HIGH QUALITY!

that's my 2 cents.


Did he really say that? That sums up the franchise's evolution pretty well. It's weird though since Unity's devs seem to be willing to do the exact opposite and fix some of AC's problems. According to that quote, they should be trying to cover them up, as is tradition.
that sentence was taken out of context. he said that in a gameinformer interview about something else.

Dead1y-Derri
09-28-2014, 10:26 PM
Anything can be simplified into "go there, do this" it's about how you spice up "going there" and how you enhance "doing this" Nothing wrong with having numerous "go there, do this"s. it's how each is different.

Please don't be like that, of course everything can be summed up like that if you put it like that but in the context I'm talking about was the side missions such as AC: Black Flag, the assassination missions basically had you do the following

- Start the mission
-Go to target Area
-Identify Target
-Kill Target

Now that would be fine if you only had 10 Assassination Contracts but when you have tons of them, it gets old because eventually you run out of idea of how to make them fun and interesting. I eventually started hiding in a bush and shooting them in the head as it was easy and I wanted to get them over with because the back story of why I should assassinate them wasn't too interesting (although I did read it) and assassinating them didn't give me any information.

I mean they could have added cut scenes, more intelligent enemies, have them run away.

Some were diverse, I remember one on an Island, you had two brothers and you killed one brother and the other ran to his ship and you had a nice chase battle etc which was nice but that was one of the few more diverse assassination missions.

Watch Dogs did the same thing, you'd go around having to scan hard drives or codes and it didn't mean all that much and usually wasn't that fun to do but the insisted on adding 10 of them or 20 of them, even when they weren't that interesting to anyone.

Sometimes you'd get Audio Logs but you'd loose track of what the previous one said unless you did them all consecutively and didn't get distracted by other things which is quite hard to do as you can be easily distracted.

Overall, everyone on this thread apart from you has agreed with me that the SIDE Missions/Tasks are repetitive.

I'll also edit my first post with this post as I feel I've explained it better in this post than in my first post.

AssassinHMS
09-29-2014, 01:02 AM
a good post.

personally i think the problem with those meaningless repetitive side quests like in WD where you need to eavesdrop on someones' conversation, stop one dude from doing a crime or scan something is that these quests are shallow and too easy. personally i didnt bother with them. the only side quests i really enjoyed were the ones that were challenging and tense. i also liked stopping random crimes and following the criminal until he called for backup. then i'd kill the bastard and had a fun firefight in the streets.

calling a game repetitive is silly to me. a racing game is repetitive yet ppl dont complain. NBA or FIFA is repetitive. you only do one thing over and over again yet no one complains. why do ppl complain in a game like AC? the point of a game is to give you something to do that is so much fun that you enjoy doing it over and over again. if the side missions in games were really fun to you than you'd enjoy them. i loved the GANG HIDEOUT missions in WD. same as the convoy missions. they were fun and engaging. i hate the collecting missions. in AC or batman i never collected anything. i am not a proud owner of an OCD nor of a collection of useless feathers from italy. i only play what is actual fun to do and not what just grants me a badge for sticking with it inspite of it being boring or simplistic.
all these collecting missions in game feel like if my son want to play i'd just turn a cereal box over and spill it and tell him it's a game to pick them all up. it's lazy, insulting and meaningless.
Ubi can create repetitive SQ in games, IMO, just make them FUN! make them GOOD and HIGH QUALITY!

that's my 2 cents.


Agreed.
There needs to be a balance between quality and quantity. In order for a racing game (for example) not to feel repetitive, it needs to ensure both quality and quantity. The driving mechanics need to be good, the tracks/world need(s) to be diverse and distinct, the mission type needs to vary even if just slightly (sprints, circuits, checkpoints, drags, etc.). By doing this the game wonít feel repetitive even if all you do is drive.

In ACís case, there is too much quantity and not enough quality. Assassination missions are wasted. Hereís a case where I think AC devs could learn from Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor.
In Shadow of Mordor, among the enemyís ranks, there are five warchiefs that need to be eliminated. Each one of them has an elite chief who serves as their personal bodyguard and directly commands the various ranks of minions. Killing a warchief isnít an easy task and the best way to do it, is to learn their strengths as well as their weaknesses in order to exploit them. It is possible to get this information and more by forcing enemies close in rank to reveal it (with the wraith powers).
There are also internal power struggles and the enemy ranks will be constantly updated as orcs kill and betray each other for power.
Once an enemy is defeated (like a commander, a general or even a warchief) whoever is right below his rank will take his place, so it never really ends.
The player can, however, use his powers to control a specific enemy and turn him into his minion. The minion can be used to infiltrate the enemy ranks, betray anyone (including his superiors) and move up the hierarchy until he becomes one of the warchiefs. This way, the player can destabilize and control the orcs by making all the warchiefs his minions.

So how can this be applied to AC?
By replacing the orcs with Templars, we would get a pretty ďrealisticĒ Templar Order. There would be the higher ups, the Templar masters who pulled the strings and didnít involve themselves directly in the action; the mastersí right hands, the Templar Captains that did the dirty work for them and their minions.
While higher ups would be secured in their unknown locations under their false identities, minions would roam the streets to perform the tasks they were given. While some may attack the player if they recognized him (which could happen if the Assassin drew attention to himself by performing high profile actions in the middle of the street) others would try to slip by undetected and it would be up to the player to spot them. The player would need to pay attention to the NPCs while exploring the world in order to spot any unusual behavior. He could then use eagle vision to confirm his suspicions and, if the NPC is indeed a Templar, he/she would appear in gold. By tailing the NPC he would take the player to his superior, a Templar captain. The player could also ambush the Templar NPC and interrogate him or (if heís dead) loot a letter that would reveal the place he was headed where he would report to his captain. Once the player reached the location, the goal would be to incapacitate the Templar Captain and force him to reveal his masterís identity and location. This would trigger a side assassination mission where the goal would be to infiltrate a specific area and eliminate the Templar master. This would be a black box mission. The target would retreat to a safe place that the player would need to infiltrate (knowing by his captainís death that the Assassin is closing in on him). The player could choose to go right in and start the assassination mission knowing only the name and location of the target. However he could also investigate by scouting the area in search of possible entrances or exits and keeping an eye on anyone who enters and leaves the place so that he can follow them and eavesdrop on their conversations or force them to reveal information about the target and about what to expect inside the place. Then the player could plan his assassination (knowing the best places to infiltrate, the patrols schedule, the best routes to the targetís quarters, the targetís daily routine, the layout of the building, etc.) which would allow him to find the different methods to kill the target (these could vary from, killing the target during his sleep, using the environment as a weapon such as crushing him with a chandelier, poisoning the targetís food, etc.).

Captains and other minions would be easy to replace but it would take longer for a Templar Master to be appointed after a predecessor had been killed. Killing Templar Masters would slow down their plans and diminish their control over the cityís districts for a time. This would translate in safer streets with less Templars roaming around, better prices in shops and a bigger chance to coerce Templars into joining the Assassin order and become spies ready to betray their masters should the player desire.




that sentence was taken out of context. he said that in a gameinformer interview about something else.

Ah, I thought as much.

Assassin_M
09-29-2014, 01:25 AM
Please don't be like that, of course everything can be summed up like that if you put it like that but in the context I'm talking about was the side missions such as AC: Black Flag, the assassination missions basically had you do the following

- Start the mission
-Go to target Area
-Identify Target
-Kill Target

Now that would be fine if you only had 10 Assassination Contracts but when you have tons of them, it gets old because eventually you run out of idea of how to make them fun and interesting. I eventually started hiding in a bush and shooting them in the head as it was easy and I wanted to get them over with because the back story of why I should assassinate them wasn't too interesting (although I did read it) and assassinating them didn't give me any information.

I mean they could have added cut scenes, more intelligent enemies, have them run away.

Some were diverse, I remember one on an Island, you had two brothers and you killed one brother and the other ran to his ship and you had a nice chase battle etc which was nice but that was one of the few more diverse assassination missions.

Watch Dogs did the same thing, you'd go around having to scan hard drives or codes and it didn't mean all that much and usually wasn't that fun to do but the insisted on adding 10 of them or 20 of them, even when they weren't that interesting to anyone.

Sometimes you'd get Audio Logs but you'd loose track of what the previous one said unless you did them all consecutively and didn't get distracted by other things which is quite hard to do as you can be easily distracted.

Overall, everyone on this thread apart from you has agreed with me that the SIDE Missions/Tasks are repetitive.

I'll also edit my first post with this post as I feel I've explained it better in this post than in my first post.
Don't be like what? Your post is exactly what i'm describing side missions should be like, instead of trying to completely scrap a contextually relevant side mission to add more variety, the variety should be in those side missions.

topeira1980
09-29-2014, 07:38 AM
I cant wait to play shadow of mordor this week. obviously the system would lend itself nicely to AC. SOM is essentially AC in mordor in so many ways :) the only issue is that SOM relies on the player dying the reviving which makes the enemies level up. this is harder to explain and do in AC universe.

i think that the mechanics of AC should be improved and so is the challenge (give us difficulty settings for crying out loud. is that so hard?!?). if the combat was more complex and up to par with the better combat games and the game was challenging than it would have been enough to just throw a templar into a guard crowded perimeter and let the player kill him. frankly thats basically all is needed but if the game is simple and easy like AC has been all these years than you'd just do the same thing every time to kill the target and it would get boring because the player would do the same thing.
HOWEVER if the game is hard than the player will need to adapt, change his strategy according to the situation and when the player DOES get into a difficult situation it changes how you precieve the mission:
if you fail and try again and you fail and try again and then succeed, or if things are just tough and make the mission feel tense than in the end of the mission when you win you remember the feeling - the sign of relief. that exhilaration. the excitement. and if THAT is the feeling you get from doing the simple mission than you'd love doing the same type of mission again and again so you can experience the same feeling again. to be excited. to be exhilarated.
there is NOTHING exhilarating about killing a high rank captain and his 12 guards if it's as mundane and brainless as scanning a QR code.

Dead1y-Derri
09-29-2014, 10:10 AM
Don't be like what? Your post is exactly what i'm describing side missions should be like, instead of trying to completely scrap a contextually relevant side mission to add more variety, the variety should be in those side missions.

But the variety is not in those side missions. I'd rather have 5, well thought out Assassination Missions than 20 repetitive ones where I do the same thing again and again.

Assassin_M
09-29-2014, 04:14 PM
I'd rather have 5, well thought out Assassination Missions than 20 repetitive ones where I do the same thing again and again.
Which is what i'm saying.....

Dead1y-Derri
09-29-2014, 10:43 PM
Which is what i'm saying.....

Good, we're on the same page then.

I would actually like to see Assassination missions styled after the template agents side missions that was seen AC2. At least those offered some story and narrative and we're generally quite different.