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RinoTheBouncer
09-28-2014, 11:25 AM
Since the first AC game, each new AC game wanted to break the record of the first in terms of the size of the world. At first, we were expanding size, then details then both size and details. ACIII and ACIV presented massive worlds and Paris is almost as large as these, as far as we’ve learned. So how large do you think AC game maps will be?

Skyrim for example, was massive and it was all handmade that you can’t find two dungeons that look the same. Do you think AC will go this far? do you think we’ll ever get an AC game that involves not a city, but a country or maybe a continent. The world might be theoretically impossible for at least 2-3 more generations of consoles, but can we ever get this far? I know that it’s not about size, but the details and the things we can do in those locations. But do you think we’ve hit a dead end in terms of world map sizes in video games? do you think that developers will focus more on what we can do in a relatively small map, than enlarging it?

I know that more size usually means less detail, but with the evolving technologies, I’m sure they’ll aim for something bigger and also more detailed. Maybe in the times of PlayStation 6 or 7, we’ll be able to roam around a continent, perhaps.

So what do you think? let’s say the next AC on next gen will be set in China, the whole country or Japan. Not in a specific city, but just as detailed. Wouldn’t that be epic?

marvelfannumber
09-28-2014, 11:52 AM
AC 78 world map

Built at a 1:1 scale with complete seamlessnes:

http://i.imgur.com/6czD1Wk.jpg

Coming 2098 for the PS Millenium, Sega Panther and Wii Fuu....

Shahkulu101
09-28-2014, 12:05 PM
AC 78 world map

Built at a 1:1 scale with complete seamlessnes:

http://i.imgur.com/6czD1Wk.jpg

Coming 2098 for the PS Millenium, Sega Panther and Wii Fuu....

And there's a loading screen to enter the moon.

roostersrule2
09-28-2014, 12:08 PM
AC 78 world map

Built at a 1:1 scale with complete seamlessnes:

http://i.imgur.com/6czD1Wk.jpg

Coming 2098 for the PS Millenium, Sega Panther and Wii Fuu....But can you get from one side to the other without touching the ground?

X_xWolverinEx_X
09-28-2014, 12:11 PM
AC 78 world map

Built at a 1:1 scale with complete seamlessnes:

http://i.imgur.com/6czD1Wk.jpg

Coming 2098 for the PS Millenium, Sega Panther and Wii Fuu....

Of course there is no Australia to play

dimbismp
09-28-2014, 12:14 PM
AC 78 world map

Built at a 1:1 scale with complete seamlessnes:

http://i.imgur.com/6czD1Wk.jpg

Coming 2098 for the PS Millenium, Sega Panther and Wii Fuu....
I am sure they won't even change Paris,Rome,Instanbul,Jerusalem etc.I am not buying!!!!!No more Europe

ze_topazio
09-28-2014, 12:26 PM
The only way we will ever have an entire nation is if that nation is a city state or a small island.

RinoTheBouncer
09-28-2014, 12:30 PM
But isn’t it possible to have a globe trotting adventure? perhaps they can deviate a bit from the fully open world idea and we can instead have multiple cities in multiple countries or a whole country. In ancient times, countries weren’t really that big nor densely populated.

roostersrule2
09-28-2014, 12:37 PM
Size of the map is irrelevant in AC.

It's all about the immersion, detail and density.

pacmanate
09-28-2014, 12:40 PM
You guys derailed so bad haha. But it's Rino so let's at least try and contribute :p

Personally size doesn't matter. Havana and Kingston were pretty small but they were dense and there were a good handful of things to do.

For example, again, Boston and New York were big maps but the streets were very wide and a 3rd of the map was empty space. In my opinion when it comes to cities I want Urban areas that are fun to free run in.

Unity for me seems good, not cause of its size (cause its huge) but because most of the map does actually look urban.

Shahkulu101
09-28-2014, 12:42 PM
Size doesn't matter, it's what they do with the maps that counts. ;)

ze_topazio
09-28-2014, 12:56 PM
I once suggested that the game about the Haitian revolution could have used most of Haiti.

Reaper-59
09-28-2014, 01:20 PM
Size of the map is irrelevant in AC.

It's all about the immersion, detail and density.

^^^This


Size doesn't matter, it's what they do with the maps that counts. ;)

^^^And this

I would so much prefer 1 reasonable sized map with a crap load of detail and a hell of a lot of activity and missions/side missions etc to do than that of a gigantic map with sod all in it..

RinoTheBouncer
09-28-2014, 01:58 PM
Nobody said that size matters. It’s just a speculation, a suggestion. And if you read my thread, you would’ve understood that I don’t want big places for nothing.


You guys derailed so bad haha. But it's Rino so let's at least try and contribute :p

Personally size doesn't matter. Havana and Kingston were pretty small but they were dense and there were a good handful of things to do.

For example, again, Boston and New York were big maps but the streets were very wide and a 3rd of the map was empty space. In my opinion when it comes to cities I want Urban areas that are fun to free run in.

Unity for me seems good, not cause of its size (cause its huge) but because most of the map does actually look urban.

Thanks for being the voice of reason :p
Yes, I do agree that it’s about immersion and I personally don’t like big places that are just big for the sake of being big. ACIV nada lot of copy/paste islands.

Shahkulu101
09-28-2014, 02:06 PM
Don't worry Rino, I was just making a **** joke.

I don't have the technical expertise to answer your question.

RinoTheBouncer
09-28-2014, 02:08 PM
Don't worry Rino, I was just making a **** joke.

I don't have the technical expertise to answer your question.

I know, I’m not upset or anything. Just clarifying hehe.
Since the games have been growing bigger and with each new game they boast about it being bigger and closer to being 1:1 in size not just building sizes, I was speculating whether it’ll be any bigger or not.

Shahkulu101
09-28-2014, 02:14 PM
To be honest, a real life sized city would not be fun. There would be no way to fully explore the map, travelling would take too long and there would have to be too much content to justify the landmass.

The most I can see is multiple cities with 1:1 scale with the buildings. Complete 1:1 would be too much if we are talking grand metropolises like Paris. Maybe that's just me, I am easily overwhelmed when it comes to map size. It hurt my experience when it came to GTA and it's why I've never bought RDR.

X_xWolverinEx_X
09-28-2014, 02:17 PM
To be honest, a real life sized city would not be fun. There would be no way to fully explore the map, travelling would take too long and there would have to be too much content to justify the landmass.

The most I can see is multiple cities with 1:1 scale with the buildings. Complete 1:1 would be too much if we are talking grand metropolises like Paris. Maybe that's just me, I am easily overwhelmed when it comes to map size. It hurt my experience when it came to GTA and it's why I've never bought RDR.

you never played RDR http://i.imgur.com/oEcPirH.png

D.I.D.
09-28-2014, 02:47 PM
The worlds can become gigantic. The demonstration of the tools that allowed Unity's designers to create unique streets quickly was fascinating to me.

However, you've still got a problem of data size. With procedural algorithms, you could conceivably build a gigantic fantasy world from a smaller amount of data, but if you want to be able to walk down a 16th century Prague street and match it to drawings and documents of the real thing, that's got to be built. Then you also need textures, vegetation, and NPC models and so on to change from place to place. It's too much for a disc format, or even a download. Bandwidth provision will improve, but you've still got the installation to think about.

It's possible, then, but the only way I see it working is if our computers and consoles become more passive, and we play games that are running on remote servers via a streaming system similar to OnLive/Gaikai's models. The increasing desire for 1440p and 2160p gaming might be pushing that day even further away.

pacmanate
09-28-2014, 03:20 PM
you never played RDR http://i.imgur.com/oEcPirH.png

Quoted for added "GTFO". RDR is one of the best games I have ever played.

SpiritOfNevaeh
09-28-2014, 03:39 PM
Size of the map is irrelevant in AC.

It's all about the immersion, detail and density.


^This!

pacmanate
09-28-2014, 03:40 PM
The fact you just agreed with Rooster makes me question life.

TheArcaneEagle
09-28-2014, 04:02 PM
As big as the game engine and/or the console can allow whilst it having a steady 30fps.

Hans684
09-28-2014, 05:01 PM
Never had an interest in RDR, it's just an historical game.

As for the size of AC, it gets as big as the story and power gets it.

HiddenKiller612
09-28-2014, 08:08 PM
Never had an interest in RDR, it's just an historical game.

As for the size of AC, it gets as big as the story and power gets it.
Wut?
http://egmr.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Double-Facepalm.png

SixKeys
09-28-2014, 08:14 PM
Never had an interest in RDR, it's just an historical game.

And AC is "just about a hooded guy that kills people". :rolleyes:

RDR is fantastic tho. It's one of the reasons I still wanna get a PS3 when I have money to spare (last one was left with my ex).

Back on topic....

I would prefer a return to smaller cities. I still want multiple ones, but AC2 size would be fine. I prefer having a city small enough that I can learn to know my way around every corner. Makes me feel like a real assassin who uses his knowledge of the city to his advantage. The bigger the games get, the easier it becomes to get lost and overwhelmed. Smaller cities also allow for a lot more detail with current-gen technology. We could have E3 demo level of detail in cloth physics, smoke, textures etc.

RinoTheBouncer
09-28-2014, 08:49 PM
I just wish that at some point, we get to have multiple cities in multiple countries. We had that in AC1, Damascus and Masyaf in Syria, Jerusalem and Acre in Palestine. I wish we can do it again and perhaps sail to another destination. America and England, maybe? China and Japan, Germany and Albania, Russia as a whole, the Arabian Peninsula as a whole. That would be really interesting.

SixKeys
09-28-2014, 08:52 PM
I just wish that at some point, we get to have multiple cities in multiple countries. We had that in AC1, Damascus and Masyaf in Syria, Jerusalem and Acre in Palestine. I wish we can do it again and perhaps sail to another destination. America and England, maybe? China and Japan, Germany and Albania, Russia as a whole, the Arabian Peninsula as a whole. That would be really interesting.

Yes. That and having the same city over multiple centuries (with notable differences) are my two wishes for the franchise.

RinoTheBouncer
09-28-2014, 08:55 PM
Yes. That and having the same city over multiple centuries (with notable differences) are my two wishes for the franchise.
Actually, your idea is perfect. I love to see the same city in a proper 3rd person modern day and a certain historical period when it looked way too different, yet at the same time, the same at certain points.

D.I.D.
09-28-2014, 08:58 PM
I just wish that at some point, we get to have multiple cities in multiple countries. We had that in AC1, Damascus and Masyaf in Syria, Jerusalem and Acre in Palestine. I wish we can do it again and perhaps sail to another destination. America and England, maybe? China and Japan, Germany and Albania, Russia as a whole, the Arabian Peninsula as a whole. That would be really interesting.

Key cities along the Silk Road or spice trading routes would make a great game. The Vikings are known to have traded all along the Silk Road, and were often buried in their silks at home. Some served as bodyguards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangian_Guard) to royalty in Istanbul too. It might be interesting to run half the game from a viking hero's perspective, and an Indonesian, Chinese or Indian character's perspective for the other half.

D.I.D.
09-28-2014, 09:00 PM
Yes. That and having the same city over multiple centuries (with notable differences) are my two wishes for the franchise.

Yeah, that's something I really liked when we first saw it in AC2 - construction work changing the city as the Animus tech showed you the city [x] years later, just before letting you back into the game. A more dramatic version of that kind of alteration would be great to see, and to show how the actions of one set of people affect their children and grandchildren's generations.

LoyalACFan
09-28-2014, 09:45 PM
I don't think huge, sprawling maps with multiple cities are the way to go, namely because you'd end up with a ton of empty space in between cities that wouldn't suit AC-style gameplay. AC4 was a different story because of the sailing mechanic, but if you're just talking about one gigantic land map with flat countryside in between cities... meh. The one exception I could see would be a game in China with a lot of epic mountain climbing and cliff scaling in Huangshan between cities. Historical accuracy be damned, I'd be all over that ****.

Rather, I think in the future they'll probably either level off in the size of the worlds, or start using the AC1/AC2 model again with larger maps.

RinoTheBouncer
09-28-2014, 09:57 PM
I don't think huge, sprawling maps with multiple cities are the way to go, namely because you'd end up with a ton of empty space in between cities that wouldn't suit AC-style gameplay. AC4 was a different story because of the sailing mechanic, but if you're just talking about one gigantic land map with flat countryside in between cities... meh. The one exception I could see would be a game in China with a lot of epic mountain climbing and cliff scaling in Huangshan between cities. Historical accuracy be damned, I'd be all over that ****.

Rather, I think in the future they'll probably either level off in the size of the worlds, or start using the AC1/AC2 model again with larger maps.

I actually hope that they do something like that with China and place missions in those places in between. Imagine using those beautiful Avatar movie-like mountains as viewpoints. It would be totally epic.

marvelfannumber
09-28-2014, 10:08 PM
I actually hope that they do something like that with China and place missions in those places in between. Imagine using those beautiful Avatar movie-like mountains as viewpoints. It would be totally epic.

YES! I always loved the Appeline Mountains in AC2, those totally need to make a comeback!

.......I am kidding of course.........

RinoTheBouncer
09-28-2014, 10:13 PM
YES! I always loved the Appeline Mountains in AC2, those totally need to make a comeback!

.......I am kidding of course.........

I’m sure with this generation, and the introduction of much more detailed worlds, it would be very entertaining to travel through such locations, if they’re done the right way. It would be a good break from the crowded cities. The Frontier for example was perfect, and even more perfect when it was snowy, later through ACIII.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
09-28-2014, 10:56 PM
You guys derailed so bad haha. But it's Rino so let's at least try and contribute :p

Personally size doesn't matter. Havana and Kingston were pretty small but they were dense and there were a good handful of things to do.

For example, again, Boston and New York were big maps but the streets were very wide and a 3rd of the map was empty space. In my opinion when it comes to cities I want Urban areas that are fun to free run in.

Unity for me seems good, not cause of its size (cause its huge) but because most of the map does actually look urban.

Though the size of Paris is a bonus too. It looks to be a pretty massive, but dense and detailed, city. Plus there's a TON of interiors to enter seamlessly which is awesome.

SixKeys
09-28-2014, 11:14 PM
YES! I always loved the Appeline Mountains in AC2, those totally need to make a comeback!

.......I am kidding of course.........

You were kidding? I genuinely love the Apennine mountains. You can get some absolutely gorgeous screengrabs there, just riding on your horse as day turns into night. I'm also a big fan of the Kingdom in AC1.

marvelfannumber
09-28-2014, 11:17 PM
You were kidding? I genuinely love the Apennine mountains. You can get some absolutely gorgeous screengrabs there, just riding on your horse as day turns into night. I'm also a big fan of the Kingdom in AC1.

I thought I was a hipster when it came to AC maps. If I had a medal I would give you one at this very moment.

hood3dassassin5
09-28-2014, 11:19 PM
We already have the biggest AC map there can be, and we've had it, since the very beginning.....
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/194n72oihpn2egif/original.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.kotaku.com.au/2013/10/assassins-creed-iv-black-flag-the-kotaku-review/&h=360&w=640&tbnid=oNaHHxUGZNVXGM:&zoom=1&docid=MyP3C_l3V-FrvM&hl=en&ei=xYgoVOGBC4afyQTp9IGIAw&tbm=isch&client=safari&ved=0CCMQMygFMAU

The Animus.....:p

PedroAntonio2
09-28-2014, 11:44 PM
For me a good open-world games needs to feel alive, what is the pont in having a gigantic map that surpass thousands of games if it doesn't have content ? The world needs to make the player explore it...a good example of it is Red Dead Redemption, there were hundres of times that I was going to a mission and something happens during the travel that makes me explore the map, like a animal that I want to kill, a Stranger Mission, an random event, etc.

GoldenBoy9999
09-29-2014, 04:43 AM
While I don't know if it'd be the best choice, I think AC maps will be able to get much bigger. If we wait 5 generations for now, worlds probably won't be the same size as places like Havana or Kingston. I don't think we've reached the cap.

king-hailz
09-29-2014, 07:09 AM
Well they could in my opinion at playstation 6 or 7 (and Xbox whatever it's gonna be called) however they could make a country that's obviously not to scale but with every single city made a per at Ely in the size of havanna or something... that could work however in the far future we might get a country with every city made like Paris... and with its detail but that will be more like playstation 15 or something.

EmbodyingSeven5
09-29-2014, 10:39 AM
AC 78 world map

Built at a 1:1 scale with complete seamlessnes:

http://i.imgur.com/6czD1Wk.jpg

Coming 2098 for the PS Millenium, Sega Panther and Wii Fuu....

cant wait to tell my kids how good they have it.......:p

I think it will get

http://imagehost.gamerone.net/image.php?di=5ZXY

EmbodyingSeven5
09-29-2014, 10:45 AM
they should make a large world with a ton of content to fill it. Like skryim did............. on LAST GEN for crhist sake!!

Farlander1991
09-29-2014, 11:25 AM
Skyrim wasn't hand made.

Dungeons weren't handcrafted, they are modular (i.e., a bunch of different parts were hand-made, but then they would just have different connections of said same parts).
Terrain wasn't handcrafted, it was generated based on a heat map.

Don't get me wrong, lots of work was put into Skyrim's world, but it's not a handcrafted experience.

If you want hand-crafted, look not at Elder Scrolls, look at something like Gothic. And by Gothic I mean Gothic 1 and 2 (not 3 and 4). They have worlds that are a lot smaller than Skyrim's or Morrowind's, but they were actually fully designed by hand, and it shows. And it's not an insult to Skyrim or anything. Massive worlds require workarounds (like, for example, how ACU have Paris houses created in a modular fashion, just like Skyrim dungeons) to ease up the massive workload, but calling it handmade is... well, raising expectations, really. What massive world games like Skyrim and AC do is that they mix the handcrafted content with generated one which is why as a whole experience is positive, but if you're going to take a look at all the components individually, then you can get much higher quality results handcrafted than those ways (but an important question would be, is that really needed?)

D.I.D.
09-29-2014, 04:25 PM
Well they could in my opinion at playstation 6 or 7 (and Xbox whatever it's gonna be called) however they could make a country that's obviously not to scale but with every single city made a per at Ely in the size of havanna or something... that could work however in the far future we might get a country with every city made like Paris... and with its detail but that will be more like playstation 15 or something.

It's not the power of the machine anymore, so much as the amount of storage in the box and the delivery vehicle of the data (disc/download).

There is a limit to the amount of shapes that each console can draw and shade on the screen at any one time, which affects the complexity of each scene, but a superfast CPU or GPU isn't the answer to making an immense world.


For me a good open-world games needs to feel alive, what is the pont in having a gigantic map that surpass thousands of games if it doesn't have content ? The world needs to make the player explore it...a good example of it is Red Dead Redemption, there were hundres of times that I was going to a mission and something happens during the travel that makes me explore the map, like a animal that I want to kill, a Stranger Mission, an random event, etc.

Yeah, I agree. I don't particularly want to see amazing places that I see only once. It's nice to learn your way around a place and feel like one of the inhabitants, and it makes the discovery of secret places that much more interesting. It's certainly possible to have a handful of major locations and get to know them all, though.

Bastiaen
09-29-2014, 05:23 PM
There comes a point where worlds get too big. It's more about having lots of fun things to do in a world than sheer size.

EmbodyingSeven5
09-29-2014, 08:50 PM
Skyrim wasn't hand made.

Dungeons weren't handcrafted, they are modular (i.e., a bunch of different parts were hand-made, but then they would just have different connections of said same parts).
Terrain wasn't handcrafted, it was generated based on a heat map.

Don't get me wrong, lots of work was put into Skyrim's world, but it's not a handcrafted experience.

If you want hand-crafted, look not at Elder Scrolls, look at something like Gothic. And by Gothic I mean Gothic 1 and 2 (not 3 and 4). They have worlds that are a lot smaller than Skyrim's or Morrowind's, but they were actually fully designed by hand, and it shows. And it's not an insult to Skyrim or anything. Massive worlds require workarounds (like, for example, how ACU have Paris houses created in a modular fashion, just like Skyrim dungeons) to ease up the massive workload, but calling it handmade is... well, raising expectations, really. What massive world games like Skyrim and AC do is that they mix the handcrafted content with generated one which is why as a whole experience is positive, but if you're going to take a look at all the components individually, then you can get much higher quality results handcrafted than those ways (but an important question would be, is that really needed?)

well they fooled me, because skyrim looked handmade in my eyes. never played the first two gothics. any better than last few?


There comes a point where worlds get too big. It's more about having lots of fun things to do in a world than sheer size.

yes. no one wants to explore a large space with nothing to do. games should expand their maps if and only if the sheer amount of content wont fit

Fatal-Feit
09-29-2014, 09:05 PM
As big as the current-gen consoles would allow them.


Maybe in the times of PlayStation 6 or 7, we’ll be able to roam around a continent, perhaps.

Well, you're optimistic.

Democrito_71
09-30-2014, 09:33 PM
Size doesn't really matter in an open world game if it contains too little content. If an open world game is huge alá Skyrim, it needs to be full of fun/interesting/creative content so it gives the players a purpose to roam around the game-world.

If Ubi would "recreate" a "whole" country, I would prefer if they only take the "important/necessary" parts and cut the unnecessary parts of the country so the game doesn't become inconsistent due to huge, empty spaces that has no purpose for the game. Easiest explanation for Ubi to do so, would be by explaining that the "Animus cuts the unnecessary parts of the ancestors life where nothing significant happened in their lives). That way, Ubi could recreate "whole" countries without making it inconsistent to the main story and the purpose for the open-world itself.

Easier said then done I know, but maybe uni could pull it of one day :cool:

EmbodyingSeven5
10-01-2014, 01:08 AM
Size doesn't really matter in an open world game if it contains too little content. If an open world game is huge alá Skyrim, it needs to be full of fun/interesting/creative content so it gives the players a purpose to roam around the game-world.

If Ubi would "recreate" a "whole" country, I would prefer if they only take the "important/necessary" parts and cut the unnecessary parts of the country so the game doesn't become inconsistent due to huge, empty spaces that has no purpose for the game. Easiest explanation for Ubi to do so, would be by explaining that the "Animus cuts the unnecessary parts of the ancestors life where nothing significant happened in their lives). That way, Ubi could recreate "whole" countries without making it inconsistent to the main story and the purpose for the open-world itself.

Easier said then done I know, but maybe uni could pull it of one day :cool:

I think you slipped in a size matters joke in there.......http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/123/0/3/size_matters_by_hitthemat-d4yh3nz.jpg

AdamPearce
10-01-2014, 01:21 AM
Mediterranean Free-Roam please please please.

roostersrule2
10-01-2014, 06:57 AM
To be honest, a real life sized city would not be fun. There would be no way to fully explore the map, travelling would take too long and there would have to be too much content to justify the landmass.


The most I can see is multiple cities with 1:1 scale with the buildings. Complete 1:1 would be too much if we are talking grand metropolises like Paris. Maybe that's just me, I am easily overwhelmed when it comes to map size. It hurt my experience when it came to GTA and it's why I've never bought RDR.RDR's map is only the size of GTA IV's, which is pretty small. It just feels big because it's so immersive.

It seriously is the best game ever, it makes AC2 look like AC3.




The fact you just agreed with Rooster makes me question life.I'm scared man.