PDA

View Full Version : The good old days of...Modern Day



Kakuzu745
09-27-2014, 05:21 PM
So, I finally replayed AC1 and although it is my favorite game, I have not replayed it for quite a while. I got many conclusions out of this replay but one specific thought was really attached to my head..."I used to love Modern Day".

For those who AC1 was actually their first game will probably understand me better, but at the beginning it was all about conspiracies, mysteries, unresolved questions (that you literally had no clue about), it was just basically about a big secret war going on out there to obtain some sort of secret relics from an ancient civilization while you were some random guy who was absolutely clueless about what was going on...and I loved it. I loved how it would leave you asking yourself many questions like, what was really happening in that corporation? what was that ancient civilization? It actually made me browse the internet to find what was the meaning of certain things (especially when revealing subject 16 drawings).

Then I remembered, for me it all went to hell when they destroyed completely that shroud of mystery by revealing Minerva. Starting from there the outside the animus experience became really boring for me because they transformed the suspense into action, they made me visit stadiums, tombs and corporations while also collecting batteries and replaced all of those unsolved questions I had in my head with "when is this going to end so I can go back to my game". The inside the animus experience still had some great stuff with the glitches being a big highlight.

Now it all has come to AC4 which for some people is the lowest point of the MD. To be really honest it is not like I really enjoyed because it felt so empty and shallow in so many ways but at least I feel they are trying to go back into what i consider is the right path...the mystery route. You are basically this random guy who joined this Abstergo program and along the way you start to discover many secrets about what it is actually going on behind the main stage. You get a lot of random emails (when hacking) that leave you again wondering many things and asking yourself: WTF?

The reality is that right now Ubi needs to develop a new plot for Modern Day since basically the Desmond saga is gone and they also need to wrap up this Juno stuff, however, I really hope they do it with some suspense and mystery and not by asking me to collect some "batteries to power up the ancient weapon that will defeat Juno".

For me, the First Civilization should have remained as myth/mystery and not actually reveal it in game. That was actually a huge deal-breaker with MD in my opinion.

JustPlainQuirky
09-27-2014, 05:24 PM
Not even a big fan of AC1's modern day. It's basically listen to exposition while you walk to bed.

Brotherhood and AC3 had the best MD. (AC2 might too but I haven't replayed it in a while)

ACIV's modern day was terribad.

Unity's probably will be worse.

ACRo's will prolly be the same as ACIV's

I say finish the Juno saga and drop MD because this inconsistancy and lack of investment bothers me.

Kakuzu745
09-27-2014, 05:32 PM
Not even a big fan of AC1's modern day. It's basically listen to exposition while you walk to bed.

Which is great to find out information, to ask questions, to investigate. Running around in stadiums and tombs is painful when all you want to do is doing that in the historical setting that you actually bought the game for.

MD is better when it is about riddles, mysteries, investigation and not parkouring with Daniel Cross.

RinoTheBouncer
09-27-2014, 05:37 PM
I miss the 3rd person modern day so much. Some people complained that Desmond wasn’t so likable or that the mystery was fading away after AC:B or that the story got too complex for it’s own good. Well guess what? characters can be anything, they don’t have to be one specific type, they can be like anybody. That’s how it can be realistic. Second, the mystery will sure fade away after revealing some stuff, and third, If the story was so complex or full of plot holes, the solution shouldn’t be to shut it down for good, but rather create a better one.

I really hope a proper modern day returns, maybe after 2-3 more games...

Aphex_Tim
09-27-2014, 05:40 PM
Not even a big fan of AC1's modern day. It's basically listen to exposition while you walk to bed.


Nope. You should sneak out at night once. It's fun.

JustPlainQuirky
09-27-2014, 05:41 PM
Nope. You should sneak out at night once. It's fun.

wat? I don't understand.

PedroAntonio2
09-27-2014, 05:51 PM
Are you saying that the series shouldn't have revealed the TWCB identity in ACII ? You wanted the mistery to endure for eight games ? Please, no...the longer a mistery stays, the bigger are the chances of increasing hype and disappointment after the reveal.

The only problem I see with TWCB is Juno staying the the dark two years after ACIII...remember how awesome it was when Initiates' website crashed back in 2012 when Juno was release ? We all thought that she would shake things up, create an army or start her control over humanity back then, but in ACIV we found out she can't possess someone yet. And I doubt her plot will advance in Unity or Rogue.

harsab
09-27-2014, 05:51 PM
Watch the end of this video http://www.twitch.tv/ubisoft/b/572571143

The dev says ''we have many big surprises for modern day & 1 hour in the game u will be exposed to a huge reveal''

also he says glyphs & puzzles are back :D :D :D

RinoTheBouncer
09-27-2014, 05:53 PM
Are you saying that the series shouldn't have revealed the TWCB identity in ACII ? You wanted the mistery to endure for eight games ? Please, no...the longer a mistery stays, the bigger are the chances of increasing hype and disappointment after the reveal.

The only problem I see with TWCB is Juno staying the the dark two years after ACIII...remember how awesome it was when Initiates' website crashed back in 2012 when Juno was release ? We all thought that she would shake things up, create an army or start her control over humanity back then, but in ACIV we found out she can't possess someone yet. And I doubt her plot will advance in Unity or Rogue.

I agree with every single word.


Watch the end of this video http://www.twitch.tv/ubisoft/b/572571143

The dev says ''we have many big surprises for modern day & 1 hour in the game u will be exposed to a huge reveal''

also he says glyphs & puzzles are back :D :D :D

That’s great news. Let’s just hope it’s worth the wait.

PedroAntonio2
09-27-2014, 05:55 PM
Watch the end of this video http://www.twitch.tv/ubisoft/b/572571143

The dev says ''we have many big surprises for modern day & 1 hour in the game u will be exposed to a huge reveal''

also he says glyphs & puzzles are back :D :D :D

''Someway I doubt it '' - Boss, The.

JustPlainQuirky
09-27-2014, 05:55 PM
"we have many big surprises for modern day"

Surprise! There is no modern day! *throws confetti*

refuse to believe it exists until we see footage.

harsab
09-27-2014, 05:58 PM
Surprise! There is no modern day! *throws confetti*

refuse to believe it exists until we see footage.

All I'm saying is it will definitely be much more interesting then AC4's MD.

JustPlainQuirky
09-27-2014, 05:59 PM
How do you know if you haven't seen it yet?

And I hope you're not referring to the cyberspace gameplay that isn't MD.

PedroAntonio2
09-27-2014, 06:00 PM
Give us Erudito, Glyphs and Juno and I'll be more than happy to play a Modern-Day Storyline in ACU. :cool:

JustPlainQuirky
09-27-2014, 06:02 PM
I expect ACU's MD to be like Liberation's MD.

As in not there.

harsab
09-27-2014, 06:04 PM
How do you know if you haven't seen it yet?

And I hope you're not referring to the cyberspace gameplay that isn't MD.

Because of them being very subtle about it, we will see many surprises. Before AC4 had come out we pretty much knew exactly what we were going to do even had pics released before it was even released.

Atm we have hardly any idea what to expect.

PedroAntonio2
09-27-2014, 06:05 PM
Nah, probably the modern-day storyline will be the Glyphs...someone from the Assassins will contact you and you need to unlock some files or something like it in form of Glyphs.

JustPlainQuirky
09-27-2014, 06:05 PM
Because of them being very subtle about it, we will see many surprises. Before AC4 had come out we pretty much knew exactly what we were going to do even had pics released before it was even released.

Atm we have hardly any idea what to expect.

Lack of a reveal doesn't suggest a good MD.


Nah, probably the modern-day storyline will be the Glyphs...someone from the Assassins will contact you and you need to unlock some files or something like it in form of Glyphs.

I'm talking about the MD where you actually leave the animus.

Not in-animus missions with voice overs.

harsab
09-27-2014, 06:07 PM
Lack of a reveal doesn't suggest a good MD.

But it definitely sounds interesting. I Don't see why they would have a need to lie about MD? if they say we will see many big surprises we most likely will.

JustPlainQuirky
09-27-2014, 06:08 PM
But it definitely sounds interesting. I Don't see why they would have a need to lie about MD? if they say we will see many big surprises we most likely will.

I just want to see gameplay of MD before I believe it.

pacmanate
09-27-2014, 06:11 PM
Brotherhood and AC3 had the best MD.

AC3?! BEST MODERN DAY?!

It sucked! It was absolutely terrible, our "5 sequences" worth of MD turned into 5 missions of around 8 minutes tops each. Not to mention the ending completely butchered the entire lead up from AC1.

harsab
09-27-2014, 06:12 PM
Also that RI** mode game play that had previously leaked DEFINITELY sounds interesting.

Also suggests MD will be interesting.

JustPlainQuirky
09-27-2014, 06:13 PM
AC3?! BEST MODERN DAY?!

It sucked! It was absolutely terrible, our "5 sequences" worth of MD turned into 5 missions of around 8 minutes tops each. Not to mention the ending completely butchered the entire lead up from AC1.

AC3's ending was terribad yes.

I was leaning on more brotherhood than AC3 when I made that statement.

@hars

The Rift and Modern Day are two seperate entities.

TheHumanTowel
09-27-2014, 06:14 PM
Lack of a reveal doesn't suggest a good MD.


Eh Ubisoft always barely ever reveal anything about the modern day in marketing, AC4 being the exception.

harsab
09-27-2014, 06:18 PM
AC3's ending was terribad yes.

I was leaning on more brotherhood than AC3 when I made that statement.

@hars

The Rift and Modern Day are two seperate entities.

not really the RIFT mode definitely has something to do with the modern day aspect.

it shall be interesting to find out why.

Kakuzu745
09-27-2014, 06:18 PM
I miss the 3rd person modern day so much. Some people complained that Desmond wasn’t so likable or that the mystery was fading away after AC:B or that the story got too complex for it’s own good. Well guess what? characters can be anything, they don’t have to be one specific type, they can be like anybody. That’s how it can be realistic. Second, the mystery will sure fade away after revealing some stuff, and third, If the story was so complex or full of plot holes, the solution shouldn’t be to shut it down for good, but rather create a better one.

I really hope a proper modern day returns, maybe after 2-3 more games...

Yes indeed, but in my case I bought the game because I wanted to play with a historical assassin...to be honest jumping around in tombs while discovering stuff is not my cup of tea...discovering stuff while investigating in sequences no longer than a couple of minutes. MD sequences, like the ones in the Ezio saga (except maybe AC:R) and in AC3, completely broke the pace of the game for me.


Are you saying that the series shouldn't have revealed the TWCB identity in ACII ? You wanted the mistery to endure for eight games ? Please, no...the longer a mistery stays, the bigger are the chances of increasing hype and disappointment after the reveal.

The only problem I see with TWCB is Juno staying the the dark two years after ACIII...remember how awesome it was when Initiates' website crashed back in 2012 when Juno was release ? We all thought that she would shake things up, create an army or start her control over humanity back then, but in ACIV we found out she can't possess someone yet. And I doubt her plot will advance in Unity or Rogue.

It is a mystery as long as you tease that you will eventually reveal it. For me TWCB should have remained as part of the background story as simply the guys who had those mysterious relics and no more. Ubi complicated the plot too much with unnecessary stuff...they just keep throwing more and more stuff around to MD and at this point it is getting bonkers.

In my opinion if the next setup is for example Ancient Egypt or Ancient Babylon or any of those ancient civilization that were all mysterious and stuff, then they would have a perfect opportunity to somehow restart the MD plot. Right now I feel they are just throwing stuff around and trying to patch what was done wrong. Ya, MD is a shadow of what i really enjoyed in AC1


AC3?! BEST MODERN DAY?!

It sucked! It was absolutely terrible, our "5 sequences" worth of MD turned into 5 missions of around 8 minutes tops each. Not to mention the ending completely butchered the entire lead up from AC1.

Yes! Absolutely...they completely butchered the entire lead up...this really bothered me.

PedroAntonio2
09-27-2014, 06:22 PM
The reveal will probably be someone hacking your Helix/Animus and the menu turning all red and Erudito recruiting you...but that wouldn't much of a reveal, only if the person who is giving us task since the beginning is a Erudito member who is lying about being an Assassin, Templar or anyone else.

PedroAntonio2
09-27-2014, 06:26 PM
I must be the only one who enjoyed modern-day in ACIII. I hate how they dealed with Daniel Cross, but Vidic's death was epic...at least for me. I loved those conversation with Rebecca, Shaun and William in the Grand Temple, specially how they mentioned Lucy and explained her death.

dxsxhxcx
09-27-2014, 06:26 PM
For me, the First Civilization should have remained as myth/mystery and not actually reveal it in game. That was actually a huge deal-breaker with MD in my opinion.

I agree with you here, IMO they revealed their presence and intentions too soon, deal with TWCB should've been something to do only after Desmond was gone, Desmond' saga should've revolved around stop the satellite launch and unconsciously releasing Juno at the end of AC3 like we did (and also give us information about the 1st civilization via glyphs and S16's messages), but don't have any clue about that until that final scene where Juno walks by Desmond's dead body, and then AC4 could've been used as a bridge between Desmond' saga and the new modern day protagonist saga that would deal with TWCB.

JustPlainQuirky
09-27-2014, 06:27 PM
@pedro

Vidic's death was terrible.

It made him look like an idiot who didn't think anything through.

Namikaze_17
09-27-2014, 06:29 PM
Was Desmond really so bad?

I thought he was a combination of all his ancestors in one.

And MD is meh. Only Brotherhood/ AC3 kept me interested.

Unity should just be more talking/ Messages.

Rogue should be AC4, except worse probably.

JustPlainQuirky
09-27-2014, 06:30 PM
Unity should just be more talking/ Messages.

you mean like an interface where you just read paragraphs of text and listen to voice overs?

thats horrible D:

Namikaze_17
09-27-2014, 06:33 PM
Or Juno threatening to take over us... :rolleyes:

dxsxhxcx
09-27-2014, 06:34 PM
@pedro

Vidic's death was terrible.

It made him look like an idiot who didn't think anything through.

What to say about Daniel's death then... things like this makes me believe that something went REALLY wrong during AC3's development...

GoldenBoy9999
09-27-2014, 06:34 PM
Some of the voice over and text in AC4 is kind of interesting, I just don't feel like reading all of it. I'd rather just play the game. I can't remember half of that stuff anyway. I hope after a few games they'll introduce a new MD protagonist.

Reptilis91
09-27-2014, 06:35 PM
Or maybe a few missions a la AC3.

dxsxhxcx
09-27-2014, 06:37 PM
Was Desmond really so bad?

IMO anyone who thinks Desmond was a bad (usually labelled as bland and boring) character and liked AC4's modern day is a hypocrite.

JustPlainQuirky
09-27-2014, 06:38 PM
What to say about Daniel's death then... things like this makes me believe that something went REALLY wrong during AC3's development...

yeah Daniel's death was bad too.

I take it back.

AC Brotherhood had good Modernday. There.

Reptilis91
09-27-2014, 06:40 PM
IMO anyone who thinks Desmond was a bad (usually labelled as bland and boring) character and liked AC4's modern day is a hypocrite.

Pff I'm a hypocrite. :(

In fact I think Desmond was just meh, not bad.

Xstantin
09-27-2014, 06:41 PM
Desmond wasn't bad. Some people just expected him to become a super bad *** Assassin by the end of ACIII and that never happened.

Namikaze_17
09-27-2014, 06:42 PM
IMO anyone who thinks Desmond was a bad (usually labelled as bland and boring) character and liked AC4's modern day is a hypocrite.

The people who hated Desmond, are also those people who hated getting "interrupted" while as the Ancestor.

SpiritOfNevaeh
09-27-2014, 06:45 PM
The people who hated Desmond, are also those people who hated getting "interrupted" while as the Ancestor.

I used to hate Desmond but eventually respected him in AC3, which happened to be the game he perished in.

dxsxhxcx
09-27-2014, 06:47 PM
The people who hated Desmond, are also those people who hated getting "interrupted" while as the Ancestor.

yeah, but instead of complain about what was really bothering them (be constantly INTERRUPTED and FORCED to play the modern days) they just blamed Desmond and the MD sequences and IMO this is the reason why the MD became what it is today..

Namikaze_17
09-27-2014, 06:51 PM
I used to hate Desmond but eventually respected him in AC3, which happened to be the game he perished in.

I never hated Desmond...I always his dry humor & sarcasm pretty great. His problem was that Ubi didn't really focus/ develop him like the Ancestor he was playing.

They started to in AC3, but that was his last game sadly. :(


yeah, but instead of complain about what was really bothering them (be constantly INTERRUPTED and FORCED to play the modern days) they just blamed Desmond and the MD sequences and IMO this is the reason why the MD became what it is today..

Yeah, I never thought Desmond or MD were the problem...the MAIN problem is Ubi never came to develop Desmond more, or have MD come full circle.

Now people who don't follow the lore thought Desmond was meh, and MD is just a convoluted mess with little to no hope of Salvation.

dxsxhxcx
09-27-2014, 06:57 PM
I never hated Desmond...I always his dry humor & sarcasm pretty great. His problem was that Ubi didn't really focus/ develop him like the Ancestor he was playing.

They started to in AC3, but that was his last game sadly. :(


ACB and ACR (IMO) are where they missed the opportunity to really advance the story and prepare his character to what was about to come in AC3, the only important thing that happened in ACB's modern day was the last sequence at the Colosseum, the rest was POINTLESS and in ACR instead of focus on the message S16 left in ACB they decided it was a good idea to create those awful 1st person missions showing us everything we already knew AGAIN but with a little more details that didn't really matter that much and turn S16 into a wacko trapped inside the animus.

Kakuzu745
09-27-2014, 07:08 PM
The people who hated Desmond, are also those people who hated getting "interrupted" while as the Ancestor.

Not really...I liked being interrupted in AC1 to investigate, overheard stuff, etc...I do not liked Desmond because it always felt like a rushed, unfinished and generic character. The fact that I did not want to parkour with him in tombs or in Abstergo when I wanted to do this with the ancestor and not this character just added to the insult.

Again, in terms of plot I do feel they revealed everything too fast...like if they thought they were only going to make a trilogy, and then realized "damn this franchise is a success but we basically unveiled everything MD had to actually offer".

I say it again...they basically have to restart the MD plot and I hope they do it leaning more towards what was in AC1 adding the glitches and all the goo stuff from the Ezio saga.

Kakuzu745
09-27-2014, 07:51 PM
Well I didn't really mean everyone...
( I should've put a most likely ;) )

And what you said about Desmond only goes back to my statement of Ubi not developing. Sure, he could've started out as you said, but if Ubi would've taken more time with him, he could've been great.

And I disagree about Desmond having his Ancestors skills, he needed them not just to parkour around, but to better equip him for the Modern AVT War.

And I see what you're saying about revealing everything, but that doesn't go to say they couldn't do more than scratch it all together.

Ya, thats the thing...for me Desmond should have only been a spectator of the modern war...kind of like the guy whose memories keep getting milked while the war develops. Desmond as an actual part of the war kind of bored me (in terms of him assassinating and everything). I want my Modern Day like a nice side adventure where I can investigate, solve riddles, etc...not basically what I am doing with the ancestor but in a modern setup (parkouring, assassinating, etc).

In my opinion if Ubi had left the MD as this kind of nice side adventure I am describing we would have gotten a better treatment for some characters. Desmond as a clueless guy who keeps digging and finding out stuff while you as the player always wonder "would this guy have the potential to be an assassin?" is much preferable to an undeveloped character parkouring around. Vidic as an obscure figure who remained a mysterious and important puppeteer would have been way better than what we got in AC3.

To be honest I think Ubi was too ambitious with MD and things went out of control so they basically ended up presenting MD as a dumbed down version of the ancestors game with no thorough development (which is what you can start noticing in AC3).

zkorejo
09-27-2014, 07:54 PM
I absolutely used to love modern day in AC games, like you said, mysteries and more questions than answers was what kept it interesting.

It all had to end somehow though, you cant keep everything a mystery for years when you are releasing games annually. So I understand seeing/hearing Minerva/Juno etc. there just had to be some sort of a advancement or it all would come across as 4 delusional kids looking for things that never existed.

I just feel they could have handled the MD better than they did. It all went downhill for me when they killed Lucy and made her a triple agent... it just felt like a very lazy cop out, considering that she was THE most interesting character of the MD and actually someone leading the group. Then Desmond out of nowhere becomes THE GUY and his boring dad came back... things just got worse from that point forward.

pacmanate
09-27-2014, 08:00 PM
Modern Day was butched after AC:B.

AC:Rev it was non existent and AC3's was a mess. AC4's sucked, the only cool thing was all the files.

One of my favourite parts of modern day was parkouring IRL. I thought it was interesting how the developers applied it.

Namikaze_17
09-27-2014, 08:04 PM
Ya, thats the thing...for me Desmond should have only been a spectator of the modern war...kind of like the guy whose memories keep getting milked while the war develops. Desmond as an actual part of the war kind of bored me (in terms of him assassinating and everything). I want my Modern Day like a nice side adventure where I can investigate, solve riddles, etc...not basically what I am doing with the ancestor but in a modern setup (parkouring, assassinating, etc).

In my opinion if Ubi had left the MD as this kind of nice side adventure I am describing we would have gotten a better treatment for some characters. Desmond as a clueless guy who keeps digging and finding out stuff while you as the player always wonder "would this guy have the potential to be an assassin?" is much preferable to an undeveloped character parkouring around. Vidic as an obscure figure who remained a mysterious and important puppeteer would have been way better than what we got in AC3.

To be honest I think Ubi was too ambitious with MD and things went out of control so they basically ended up presenting MD as a dumbed down version of the ancestors game with no thorough development (which is what you can start noticing in AC3).

Well when you put it that way, it sounds great...on paper. Don't get me wrong, I actually like your vision, and I hated the way they treated Desmond, Vidic, and Cross.
( Especially after the Comics)

But while that sounds great at first, it would also get redundant as well. "Oh, boy! The eighth game about a guy that simply questions & solves puzzles!"

Sure it can go deeper than that, but there isn't a way to know for sure. Plus I liked Desmond helping in MD, it actually made him feel apart the struggle/ plot like his Ancestors. And when you have Ancestors such as his, you got alot to live up to.

D.I.D.
09-27-2014, 08:05 PM
The people who hated Desmond, are also those people who hated getting "interrupted" while as the Ancestor.

Not me. I didn't mind being interrupted, I just didn't like being interrupted to see Nothing Bro again. I was quite looking forward to him getting killed and replaced with somebody at all interesting.

Namikaze_17
09-27-2014, 08:09 PM
Modern Day was butched after AC:B.

AC:Rev it was non existent and AC3's was a mess. AC4's sucked, the only cool thing was all the files.

One of my favourite parts of modern day was parkouring IRL. I thought it was interesting how the developers applied it.

It wasn't like AC1-ACB MD was any better...it was basically us going in and out of the Animus with people giving us instructions.

Arguably what saved it was the Subject 16 mysteries and such.

Kakuzu745
09-27-2014, 08:25 PM
Well when you put it that way, it sounds great...on paper. Don't get me wrong, I actually like your vision, and I hated the way they treated Desmond, Vidic, and Cross.
( Especially after the Comics)

But while that sounds great at first, it would also get redundant as well. "Oh, boy! The eighth game about a guy that simply questions & solves puzzles!"

Sure it can go deeper than that, but there isn't a way to know for sure. Plus I liked Desmond helping in MD, it actually made him feel apart the struggle/ plot like his Ancestors. And when you have Ancestors such as his, you got alot to live up to.

You are right...at some point it would have become boring but I feel there were many ways to counter this...maybe switching between different MD characters or something. Anyway it is too late, MD is what it is right now...I only wish that with this new opportunity they do a better job meaning a more mysterious MD and not what AC3 became.

Hans684
09-27-2014, 08:46 PM
For me, the First Civilization should have remained as myth/mystery and not actually reveal it in game. That was actually a huge deal-breaker with MD in my opinion.

I respect that but with this is where everything(IMO) falls apart. Having it as nothing but a mysterious distraction it would be "dragged" like some feel the current MD is, if some mysteries doesn't get a reveal it would be there just for speculations sake and do what? Nothing, nothing would lead to nothing. There would be no awnsered questions, old mysterious and new once making it a bigger pile to go trough with nothing in return. A conclusion is needed for progress, without the mystery would be nothing but an empty corridor that never ends. The further the progress the more awnsered questions we get, the mystery will fade away but only for the time it's the focus is to awnser questions. Once that is done they can bring new stuff to the table while the look around for anything to awnser the questions like monkeys. It's natural for mysteries to fade once we get awnseres. It's the circle of mysteries. Mysteries = questions = bigger picture = understanding = less mysteries = new mysteries = infinite repeat.

And what mysteries are you talking about? It's been a lot in AC, our prime examples that's still without awnseres is Eve or the thing Ezio gave to Shao Jun. It's why talking with my friend Rino is the most fun. Our wall o' tekst go so deep in to the lore that you head might spin. Could the First Civ. travel beyond the moon and live far away waiting for return? Could some have locked themselves in buckers deep under the ground and survive the solar flare? Could building an AOE into an Animus allow for living/reliving [possible] future, past or present events that could/couldn't have happened in our current story with/without a blood conection(to future, past or present events)? Here is more questions our discussions have brought but I don't remember them all, to many. So from my perspective the mystery never left. I'm just going in to so much details.

And I disagree with everyone here that puzzles/glyphs add mysteries, it's not the puzzles/glyphs that add mystery but the informations it hide or hint about that there is something bigger than the player that's going on.

hood3dassassin5
09-27-2014, 09:09 PM
wat? I don't understand.

When you go to bed the one night(I think it's after memory block 3)and you go towards the closet, you'll find the access code that will allow you to go into to the lab after everyone has left.

JustPlainQuirky
09-27-2014, 09:14 PM
When you go to bed the one night(I think it's after memory block 3)and you go towards the closet, you'll find the access code that will allow you to go into to the lab after everyone has left.

how was I supposed to know to go check my closet? :nonchalance:

Hans684
09-27-2014, 09:16 PM
how was I supposed to know to go check my closet? :nonchalance:

He comments that someone been in there, it's open and the camera focus on it when he says it.

LieutenantRex
09-27-2014, 09:17 PM
It wasn't like AC1-ACB MD was any better...it was basically us going in and out of the Animus with people giving us instructions.

Arguably what saved it was the Subject 16 mysteries and such.

I disagree with this somewhat. I personally believe modern day was done best in ACB, simply because of how much interaction the characters had with each other. It was amazing development and buildup that could have really turned into something had Ubisoft not dropped the ball in ACR. There were so many missed opportunities... The storyline could have wrapped up at AC3 if they had been consistent with the first three games.

Edit: Subject 16 was a much needed plus, aye.

pacmanate
09-27-2014, 09:25 PM
It wasn't like AC1-ACB MD was any better...it was basically us going in and out of the Animus with people giving us instructions.

Arguably what saved it was the Subject 16 mysteries and such.

Uh, yeah it was.

AC1's modern day was a great first introduction. The whole prisoner scenario, not knowing what Templars and Assassins were/what their motives were that unraveled as you played. You found out when Desmond found out. You had the best cliffhanger to an AC game at the end with the symbols.

AC2's modern day's backstory was the escape and training to be an Assassin. You got to have multiple conversations with everyone outside the animus, it gave you a taste of Modern day parkour, it included an Altair sequence, you learned about the bleeding effect, Clay, Adam and Eve and also had a cool end credits scene.

ACB modern day you got to free roam monteriggioni which was fun to see in contrast with how it was when Ezio was alive. It involved a cool "tomb" introduction to getting to the sanctuary, you got to parkour around the colleseum, you saw Juno for the first time, you saw first civ stuff for the first time (temple of Juno) and again, the ending with all the symbols and lucys death was also interesting.

ACR modern day you were in a coma. Lucy and Desmonds relationship was talked about a bit if you waited long enough between sequences before diving in again.

AC3's modern day plot involved collecting batteries. Everything else you already saw (nexus, juno) in other games. It also did a good job of butchering Clay's character, gave Vidic the WORST death possible and also executed the ending of the Modern day in a rushed way.

AC4's involved a laptop, you walk around and hack computers to get files. Shaun is randomly on a coffee stand INSIDE of an Abstergo company, somehow Abstergo doesn't recognize Shaun or Rebecca for that matter.


Now you tell me Previous AC games from AC3 didn't have better modern days.

Namikaze_17
09-27-2014, 09:28 PM
I disagree with this somewhat. I personally believe modern day was done best in ACB, simply because of how much interaction the characters had with each other. It was amazing development and buildup that could have really turned into something had Ubisoft not dropped the ball in ACR. There were so many missed opportunities... The storyline could have wrapped up at AC3 if they had been consistent with the first three games.

Edit: Subject 16 was a much needed plus, aye.

I Agree...but they couldn't let the Subject 16 stuff drag on forever, which is why I'm happy with what they did with him in Revelations...but the overall build-up/ execution could've been better.

And I'd Argue to say AC3 interactions developed Desmond.
Especially if you consider his final messages to his dad, he's grown alot since AC1 IMO.

pacmanate
09-27-2014, 09:38 PM
I Agree...but they couldn't let the Subject 16 stuff drag on forever, which is why I'm happy with what they did with him in Revelations...but the overall build-up/ execution could've been better.

And I'd Argue to say AC3 interactions developed Desmond.
Especially if you consider his final messages to his dad, he's grown alot since AC1 IMO.

What about my massive post -_-

AC3 interactions did not develop Desmond. If anything it just showed his guilt, which is what ACR's Black Room missions did anyway.

Namikaze_17
09-27-2014, 09:43 PM
Uh, yeah it was.

AC1's modern day was a great first introduction. The whole prisoner scenario, not knowing what Templars and Assassins were/what their motives were that unraveled as you played. You found out when Desmond found out. You had the best cliffhanger to an AC game at the end with the symbols.

AC2's modern day's backstory was the escape and training to be an Assassin. You got to have multiple conversations with everyone outside the animus, it gave you a taste of Modern day parkour, it included an Altair sequence, you learned about the bleeding effect, Clay, Adam and Eve and also had a cool end credits scene.

ACB modern day you got to free roam monteriggioni which was fun to see in contrast with how it was when Ezio was alive. It involved a cool "tomb" introduction to getting to the sanctuary, you got to parkour around the colleseum, you saw Juno for the first time, you saw first civ stuff for the first time (temple of Juno) and again, the ending with all the symbols and lucys death was also interesting.

ACR modern day you were in a coma. Lucy and Desmonds relationship was talked about a bit if you waited long enough between sequences before diving in again.

AC3's modern day plot involved collecting batteries. Everything else you already saw (nexus, juno) in other games. It also did a good job of butchering Clay's character, gave Vidic the WORST death possible and also executed the ending of the Modern day in a rushed way.

AC4's involved a laptop, you walk around and hack computers to get files. Shaun is randomly on a coffee stand INSIDE of an Abstergo company, somehow Abstergo doesn't recognize Shaun or Rebecca for that matter.


Now you tell me Previous AC games from AC3 didn't have better modern days.

Well it's not like any one is better than other, it's all perspective...and I'm not even trying to say that recent MD's is better than old MD's or vice versa because they all suck IMO. And even with those points you mentioned, it all felt lackluster with the game that came after it. Because it was either shafted, forgotten, or sent to initiates.

Sushiglutton
09-27-2014, 09:43 PM
Modern day just isn't needed. Ubi haven't showed a single second of it as marketing for Unity, because they know it's not what sells the game. It just doens't make any sense to pull the player out of the experience to walk around some office in third or first person. It makes the beginning of the games needlessly slow. This isn't to say that there can be no mysteries or conspiracies. Of course there can be, in the historical part of the game (as there has been, from AC2 onwards)!

Pleeease make MD completely optional at the very least!

RinoTheBouncer
09-27-2014, 09:47 PM
Modern day just isn't needed. Ubi haven't showed a single second of it as marketing for Unity, because they know it's not what sells the game. It just doens't make any sense to pull the player out of the experience to walk around some office in third or first person. It makes the beginning of the games needlessly slow. This isn't to say that there can be no mysteries or conspiracies. Of course there can be, in the historical part of the game (as there has been, from AC2 onwards)!

Pleeease make MD completely optional at the very least!

I donít see how a total of 1 hour of modern day missions throughout the whole 14-20 hours experience is such a bad idea. Ubisoft are wrong to not promote it at all. I donít think they ever did before, but it was a reason for many of us to like the franchise, like me for example and making something optional totally defeats itís purpose. The game began with someone kidnapped and forced to relive history to find the Pieces of Eden to a certain purpose, so itís more like the reason why we go in historical times. It was never an extra or optional.

Iím not saying those who donít like it should find another game to play, but Iím just saying that it isnít that immersion breaking and with all due respect, anyone who makes it such a big problem is highly exaggerating. They should instead improve it and make more people like it. Itís not like youíre being pulled from the Animus for an advertisements break or just to walk around. Thereís a story going on and back then, we used to have two stories and two endings, one for the historical and one for the modern day. Now weíll probably just have 1 and if it sucks then, good luck waiting another year so that we may or may not get something better.

Sushiglutton
09-27-2014, 10:13 PM
I don’t see how a total of 1 hour of modern day missions throughout the whole 14-20 hours experience is such a bad idea. Ubisoft are wrong to not promote it at all. I don’t think they ever did before, but it was a reason for many of us to like the franchise, like me for example and making something optional totally defeats it’s purpose. The game began with someone kidnapped and forced to relive history to find the Pieces of Eden to a certain purpose, so it’s more like the reason why we go in historical times. It was never an extra or optional.

I’m not saying those who don’t like it should find another game to play, but I’m just saying that it isn’t that immersion breaking and with all due respect, anyone who makes it such a big problem is highly exaggerating. They should instead improve it and make more people like it. It’s not like you’re being pulled from the Animus for an advertisements break or just to walk around. There’s a story going on and back then, we used to have two stories and two endings, one for the historical and one for the modern day. Now we’ll probably just have 1 and if it sucks then, good luck waiting another year so that we may or may not get something better.


MD is not a massive problem in my life, but it's an annoyance. I understand it was part of the brand from the beginning, but it didn't work out. You can't really improve it so that everyone likes it, because to a lot of people (like me) the appeal of the franchise is simply the historcial worlds. At some point you just have to cut things that don't work out after repeated attempts.

GunnerGalactico
09-27-2014, 10:18 PM
AC1 was my first game of the franchise and I felt that the MD was reasonable because it did provide a bit of insight about the goals and objectives of both the Templars and Assassins, this was especially present in Vidic's and Desmond's short conversations. IMO AC1 may be an "imperfect" game, but it was a good start to the series. AC2 and ACB had some of the best MD sequences out of any AC game. Unfortunately, I didn't enjoy the MD bits in AC3 and AC4 as much.

SixKeys
09-28-2014, 01:25 AM
MD is not a massive problem in my life, but it's an annoyance. I understand it was part of the brand from the beginning, but it didn't work out. You can't really improve it so that everyone likes it, because to a lot of people (like me) the appeal of the franchise is simply the historcial worlds. At some point you just have to cut things that don't work out after repeated attempts.

Or they could stop trying to cater to everyone which never works out anyway, and focus on bringing a good mix of both MD and historical to loyal fans.

Right now they're stuck floundering with a practically non-existent modern day, not knowing what to do with it, which takes up resources from better-crafted ideas that DO have a clear focus. Initiates is not the solution to the problems of MD, yet they're trying to present it as one. The biggest problem with MD was always that most people simply didn't find Desmond compelling. So simply make a character that has more personality. Heck, they could do what they've been doing with the historical characters and introduce one new modern protag per game. If the first game with a new modern protag is not well-received, you can dump him/her in the next. If the second one becomes popular, you can stretch out their story over several games. Basically the reverse Ezio effect.

Alphacos007
09-28-2014, 01:28 AM
Or they could stop trying to cater to everyone which never works out anyway, and focus on bringing a good mix of both MD and historical to loyal fans.

Right now they're stuck floundering with a practically non-existent modern day, not knowing what to do with it, which takes up resources from better-crafted ideas that DO have a clear focus. Initiates is not the solution to the problems of MD, yet they're trying to present it as one. The biggest problem with MD was always that most people simply didn't find Desmond compelling. So simply make a character that has more personality. Heck, they could do what they've been doing with the historical characters and introduce one new modern protag per game. If the first game with a new modern protag is not well-received, you can dump him/her in the next. If the second one becomes popular, you can stretch out their story over several games. Basically the reverse Ezio effect.

I do agree completely, even though I do like Initiates, it isn't the answer for the lack of in-game content.

PedroAntonio2
09-28-2014, 01:47 AM
A lot of people don't like modern-day storyline ? Most of the AC fans I know, enjoy the Modern-Day.

Kakuzu745
09-28-2014, 04:21 AM
And what mysteries are you talking about? It's been a lot in AC, our prime examples that's still without awnseres is Eve or the thing Ezio gave to Shao Jun. It's why talking with my friend Rino is the most fun. Our wall o' tekst go so deep in to the lore that you head might spin. Could the First Civ. travel beyond the moon and live far away waiting for return? Could some have locked themselves in buckers deep under the ground and survive the solar flare? Could building an AOE into an Animus allow for living/reliving [possible] future, past or present events that could/couldn't have happened in our current story with/without a blood conection(to future, past or present events)? Here is more questions our discussions have brought but I don't remember them all, to many. So from my perspective the mystery never left. I'm just going in to so much details.

And I disagree with everyone here that puzzles/glyphs add mysteries, it's not the puzzles/glyphs that add mystery but the informations it hide or hint about that there is something bigger than the player that's going on.

I guess we have to agree to disagree here. To be honest nobody would be really asking themselves that many questions about the first civilization if Ubi had not made them such a big deal...they would just be those guys that once made the relics, period.

TWCB allow people to come up with all kind of crazy theories which is good but that is not really mysterious at all, at least not for me, that is just letting your imagination fly and come up with crazy theories. If you take a look at the mails in AC1 where you had no idea what was happening you were like wtf, what is this all about...and do not even get me started about the moment that you see all that Subject 16 did. Even the internet went crazy trying to explain AC's finale.

In my opinion the AvT war and all the conspiracies that surround it engulfs you in a certain suspense...on the other hand the First Civilization is just pure sci-fi stuff that to be honest I could perfectly ignore and be happy.



AC3's modern day plot involved collecting batteries. Everything else you already saw (nexus, juno) in other games. It also did a good job of butchering Clay's character, gave Vidic the WORST death possible and also executed the ending of the Modern day in a rushed way.


Now you tell me Previous AC games from AC3 didn't have better modern days.

Ew...flashback...you just reminded me how little I enjoyed AC3 MD...batteries ffs...BATTERIES!!!



Or they could stop trying to cater to everyone which never works out anyway, and focus on bringing a good mix of both MD and historical to loyal fans.

Right now they're stuck floundering with a practically non-existent modern day, not knowing what to do with it, which takes up resources from better-crafted ideas that DO have a clear focus. Initiates is not the solution to the problems of MD, yet they're trying to present it as one. The biggest problem with MD was always that most people simply didn't find Desmond compelling. So simply make a character that has more personality. Heck, they could do what they've been doing with the historical characters and introduce one new modern protag per game. If the first game with a new modern protag is not well-received, you can dump him/her in the next. If the second one becomes popular, you can stretch out their story over several games. Basically the reverse Ezio effect.

Is there any way that we can propose you as a new employee for Ubi? ;)


A lot of people don't like modern-day storyline ? Most of the AC fans I know, enjoy the Modern-Day.

Most of the fans do not care that much about MD.

Fatal-Feit
09-28-2014, 07:01 AM
Uh, yeah it was.

AC1's modern day was a great first introduction. The whole prisoner scenario, not knowing what Templars and Assassins were/what their motives were that unraveled as you played. You found out when Desmond found out.

AC2's modern day's backstory was the escape and training to be an Assassin. You got to have multiple conversations with everyone outside the animus, it gave you a taste of Modern day parkour, it included an Altair sequence, you learned about the bleeding effect, Clay, Adam and Eve and also had a cool end credits scene.

ACB modern day you got to free roam monteriggioni which was fun to see in contrast with how it was when Ezio was alive. It involved a cool "tomb" introduction to getting to the sanctuary, you got to parkour around the colleseum, you saw Juno for the first time, you saw first civ stuff for the first time (temple of Juno) and again, the ending with all the symbols and lucys death was also interesting.

ACR modern day you were in a coma. Lucy and Desmonds relationship was talked about a bit if you waited long enough between sequences before diving in again.

AC3's modern day brings the gang to a First Civ location where they take refuge in search of a key to unlock the hidden door. The setting is beautiful and like no other, with plenty parkour and exploration. Very ominous, and with Juno's appearances around the cove that can give you the creeps. Like the previous games, there are many side-conversations with everyone outside the animus, and the relationship between Desmond and his father are interesting. Within the campaign, Desmond will need to collect batteries to power the location. Each battery introduces a cool modern day mission for Desmond like performing a leap of faith and parachuting off a huge building, or speaking past security guards and above a wresting match in Brazil. Also, with each key, you unlock more to explore and parkour in the hideout, along with more insight on the First Civ and Juno's story.

Now you tell me Previous AC games from AC3 didn't have better modern days.

It funny how you compliment the details in the previous games as something bigger than it actually was, and then skip over AC:3's as if they weren't anything and only call out its flaws. I'll fix it for you.

Thinking about AC:3's modern day now, actually makes me appreciate it a whole lot more than the previous ones. Especially in comparison. :p

Namikaze_17
09-28-2014, 07:04 AM
It funny how you compliment the details in the previous games as something bigger than it actually was, and then skip over AC:3's as if they weren't anything and only call out its flaws. I'll fix it for you.

Thinking about AC:3's modern day now, actually makes me appreciate it a whole lot more than the previous ones. Especially in comparison. :p

^ This...

Fatal-Feit
09-28-2014, 07:27 AM
AC3 interactions did not develop Desmond. If anything it just showed his guilt, which is what ACR's Black Room missions did anyway.

Desmond's development in any game is debatable, honestly. He have had a slow progression. Anyway,

AC:3's interactions are about more than developing Desmond (in which he did, as proof from AC:IV's recordings), they're proof of his actual development itself. His Assassin skills were put to real missions and his choice of sacrifice at the end is him being a true Assassin.

Namikaze_17
09-28-2014, 07:36 AM
That was my only problem with Des, I just Ubi could've developed him better. :(

But what's done is done.

Hans684
09-28-2014, 10:59 AM
I guess we have to agree to disagree here. To be honest nobody would be really asking themselves that many questions about the first civilization if Ubi had not made them such a big deal...they would just be those guys that once made the relics, period.

Indeed. True if they hade done nothing with them and had them only for show, we would have nothing. Nothing that does nothing that's just there, we wouldn't ask that many questions, we would ask even more since we would know close nothing.


TWCB allow people to come up with all kind of crazy theories which is good but that is not really mysterious at all, at least not for me, that is just letting your imagination fly and come up with crazy theories. If you take a look at the mails in AC1 where you had no idea what was happening you were like wtf, what is this all about...and do not even get me started about the moment that you see all that Subject 16 did. Even the internet went crazy trying to explain AC's finale.

Depends on what you consider a mystery. And the examples you gave me is perfect(TWCB fits there to), it's not knowing that do add mystery. It's as you said WTF moments that leaves us questioning.


In my opinion the AvT war and all the conspiracies that surround it engulfs you in a certain suspense...on the other hand the First Civilization is just pure sci-fi stuff that to be honest I could perfectly ignore and be happy.

That's like trying to ignore the government or any other big thing. It won't work, your already in the system/conflict.

Sushiglutton
09-28-2014, 12:43 PM
Or they could stop trying to cater to everyone which never works out anyway, and focus on bringing a good mix of both MD and historical to loyal fans.

Right now they're stuck floundering with a practically non-existent modern day, not knowing what to do with it, which takes up resources from better-crafted ideas that DO have a clear focus. Initiates is not the solution to the problems of MD, yet they're trying to present it as one. The biggest problem with MD was always that most people simply didn't find Desmond compelling. So simply make a character that has more personality. Heck, they could do what they've been doing with the historical characters and introduce one new modern protag per game. If the first game with a new modern protag is not well-received, you can dump him/her in the next. If the second one becomes popular, you can stretch out their story over several games. Basically the reverse Ezio effect.


I agree they should stop catering to everyone and the way to do that is to cut MD. Let me tell you a story :) :




In an alternate Universe Sony Santa Monica (SSM) introduced a storyteller to God Of War. Every once in a while Kratos' story would take a break and the player would instead control an old historian, living in a mansion somewhere in California, who was reading the story. As the historian you could roam around the mansion, make coffe and go to bed. After you had slept you could return to the book and continue Kratos' story.

And the players said: "We do not want to play as the historian! We want to play as Kratos slaying mythical monsters in spectacular fashion!"

SSM listened to the players and went back to work on a sequel. And they said to themselves "people don't like the historian, we really need to improve that aspect". And so for the sequel the historian got a butler. During the breaks the historian could now play boardgames with the butler and from him order a wide variety of snacks and beverages. A parrot was also added to the mansion. When the historian walked past his cage he would tell jokes.

And the players said: "We do not want to play as the historian! We want to play as Kratos slaying mythical monsters in spectacular fashion!"

The people at SSM thought for weeks of how to make the third game better. "Apparently just walking around as the historian, playing some games, isn't enough", they thought, "our players like action". And so they introduced virtual training for the historian. He could now practice fighting various of the monsters in the game in a white VR training room in his cellar. A car was added and the historian could now race the butler outside the mansion.

And the players said: "We do not want to play as the historian! We want to play as Kratos slaying mythical monsters in spectacular fashion!"

This baffled SSM somewhat. "We have given our players variety, we have given them action and yet they are not pleased. Perhaps they want a completely different experience as the historian"? And they made the historian part first-person. They removed the action parts as they didn't seem to please the players. Instead the historian could work on his computer, read e-mails and do research. Surely this would make everyone excited!

And the players said: "We do not want to play as the historian! We want to play as Kratos slaying mythical monsters in spectacular fashion!"

But SSM would not give up! They made seven iterations of the game with the historian! The historian was core to the franchise. After all he was the one reading Kratos' story. Without him there would be no story at all. He had also developed somewhat of a cult following. Then one day, at one of the planning meetings for the next game, a trainee spoke up and said: "how about we just cut the historian"? The older developers looked at him in shock. "Cut the historian?". But the CEO, who had seen the team plagued for years trying to figure out the role of the historian, said "So be it!".

And so the historian was cut and the players were happy. And the developers were happy because they could now focus on making what actually mattered as good as possible! The historian had become a shackle for everyone, seemingly impossible to escape. But the trainee had cut the Gordian knot and freed them all!

/The End

Shahkulu101
09-28-2014, 12:48 PM
Great story.

Can you tuck me in now?

EDIT: By the way did you actually make that up yourself? It's awesome.

pacmanate
09-28-2014, 01:14 PM
It funny how you compliment the details in the previous games as something bigger than it actually was, and then skip over AC:3's as if they weren't anything and only call out its flaws. I'll fix it for you.

Thinking about AC:3's modern day now, actually makes me appreciate it a whole lot more than the previous ones. Especially in comparison. :p

All the stuff you "fixed" was in previous games. We saw Juno before, we saw a first civ place before, we saw desmond interactions before. The stuff you think is "cool" is subjective. Nothing I said was subjective, they were all new things.

Reaper-59
09-28-2014, 01:16 PM
I enjoyed Desmond's modern day story. Just wish they didn't kill him off so soon.

Hans684
09-28-2014, 01:20 PM
Poor story but got the point, and compering the MD part to a dying old historian with nothing to do compared to a world with conspiracies, killings left and right, a never ending battle etc... Doesn't work that well. And both of us can twist this both ways saying taking away the MD is pleasing everyone(I'd say it's true, they're the majority. Even in the forums, so they are "everyone") or the other way around.

Kakuzu745
09-28-2014, 03:34 PM
It funny how you compliment the details in the previous games as something bigger than it actually was, and then skip over AC:3's as if they weren't anything and only call out its flaws. I'll fix it for you.

Thinking about AC:3's modern day now, actually makes me appreciate it a whole lot more than the previous ones. Especially in comparison. :p

All that you modified had been already done in other games and and in an absolutely better way. The biggest contribution of AC3 to MD was collecting batteries and butchering great characters.



Depends on what you consider a mystery. And the examples you gave me is perfect(TWCB fits there to), it's not knowing that do add mystery. It's as you said WTF moments that leaves us questioning.

Well, to be honest all the stuff about the First Civilization does not leave asking questions at all. The pieces of Eden on the other hand do which is why I keep saying that relics are OK but TWCB should just be part of a forgotten background.

I would actually be alright if they would keep being referred as a once forgotten civilization.

For me, the First Civilization is like the people who comes up with Alien Theories...that does not generate any kind of suspense nor is a mystery. I guess we have to differ on this.


That's like trying to ignore the government or any other big thing. It won't work, your already in the system/conflict.

Not at all. It is like making a game about alien theories, roosevelt and everything. If you develop the game about the government, what the government is hiding, etc...that could be cool and mysterious. As soon as you introduce actual aliens invading the planet earth it completely changes the game. Aliens could have just been part of the background of the story, not actual characters within the game.

That is my main problem with TWCB, it was a completely unnecessary reveal that would have been better as part of the background of the story.


I agree they should stop catering to everyone and the way to do that is to cut MD. Let me tell you a story :) :

I get you point, however, the thing is MD is already a part of the game...we are not talking about early footage where you can just scrap that historian. Whether you like it or not MD is already a part of the lore and everything so the least Ubi should do is incorporate in a better way.

I would be even fine if MD is only Initiates, but there has to be an MD right now, that is the reality.

Journey93
09-28-2014, 04:32 PM
they really screwed the MD part didn't they?
Killing Desmond was the worst thing that could have happened its basically over now he was there since the first game and he should have stayed until the last game
But now we have random Abstergo employees (great right?) I hope the Desmond haters are happy
Now with introducing a real new protag and solving the Juno problem... Ubi is way too lazy to do that especially since so many don't like MD (not true fans in my opinion, AC had a real story once spanning over many games, everything was tied together but now its all gone to ****)

Hans684
09-28-2014, 04:49 PM
Well, to be honest all the stuff about the First Civilization does not leave asking questions at all. The pieces of Eden on the other hand do which is why I keep saying that relics are OK but TWCB should just be part of a forgotten background.

Maybe becouse your not interested in it, that's a factor to. As you said you'd like to "ignore it and be happy". Unlike you I find it interesting, I question. I don't want it pushed to the side with MD "just couse" some don't like it nor care about and find it annoying. And you never awnsered my question, what do you question? I'm courious.


I would actually be alright if they would keep being referred as a once forgotten civilization.

Those Who Came Before = F[orgotten] Civilization = First Civilization. They are in a way named a "forgotten" civilization.


For me, the First Civilization is like the people who comes up with Alien Theories...that does not generate any kind of suspense nor is a mystery. I guess we have to differ on this.

I've lost interest in Aliens coming to earth. The First Civ. isn't that they are from earth, they simply came before and where far more advanced than us. And according to the lore they also created us, unlike the typical Hollywood aliens that's nothing but monsters and bad guys. They seem like space wizards/aliens if you view it differently or dislike them like Desmond(he called them space wizards).


Not at all. It is like making a game about alien theories, roosevelt and everything. If you develop the game about the government, what the government is hiding, etc...that could be cool and mysterious. As soon as you introduce actual aliens invading the planet earth it completely changes the game. Aliens could have just been part of the background of the story, not actual characters within the game.

AC never introduced aliens, so that's not a problem. If it's a typical secret government thing with a normal conspiracy, it will be something like Splinter Cell Conviction. You agains the government. And in case you have forgotten. The First Civ. is biblical people(Isis etc...), they have different name/looks depending on culture.


That is my main problem with TWCB, it was a completely unnecessary reveal that would have been better as part of the background of the story.

It's all a matter of perspective. There is no single path through life that's right and fair and does no harm.

Megas_Doux
09-28-2014, 04:55 PM
Assassinsīs Creed modern story

Expectations:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10659445_10152723212886840_3531411883143829010_n.j pg?oh=e2266181009e3412d72b1026075924a1&oe=54B5D8E7&__gda__=1418304946_1023d378d41a1ed98f477ec9435a597 4

Reality:

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/8700803/ac4-black-flag-present-day-02_1024.jpg


I liked AC IVīs modern part for what it was: Good easter eggs and fan services, but I miss an actual story. The thing that after AC III, Ubi just does not know what to do with it anymore, and some of the good stuff and ideas left, went to initiates and even the comics.....Ubi is trying to spread as much as they can in order to cover the most media possible, but while doing so, the grip on what SHOULD be the main focus, is GONE.

Kakuzu745
09-28-2014, 04:57 PM
Killing Desmond was the worst thing that could have happened its basically over now he was there since the first game and he should have stayed until the last game

Not really...

Hans684
09-28-2014, 04:58 PM
It's gone because most people don't like it, the critic is given to the First Civ. So expect those peoples wishes to come true while the games become simpler while pissing more on the lore because of it. Sounds fun.

Kakuzu745
09-28-2014, 05:11 PM
Maybe becouse your not interested in it, that's a factor to. As you said you'd like to "ignore it and be happy". Unlike you I find it interesting, I question. I don't want it pushed to the side with MD "just couse" some don't like it nor care about and find it annoying. And you never awnsered my question, what do you question? I'm courious.

Exactly, it is just a matter of different opinions. What do you mean what do I question? What do I question about the game or what kind of mysteries and stuff I am interested in?


Those Who Came Before = F[orgotten] Civilization = First Civilization. They are in a way named a "forgotten" civilization.

Yes, sadly they are not forgotten...that is my point. I would hardly ever mention them beyond a background and it would be better.


I've lost interest in Aliens coming to earth. The First Civ. isn't that they are from earth, they simply came before and where far more advanced than us. And according to the lore they also created us, unlike the typical Hollywood aliens that's nothing but monsters and bad guys. They seem like space wizards/aliens if you view it differently or dislike them like Desmond(he called them space wizards).

Yes, this is exactly what I mean...First civilization stuff has just gotten ridiculous at this point. It was fine when they were in the background as an ancient civilization that once fabricated these pieces and had these temples...that is fine. However, the moment you start talking about aliens, people coming from the moon, digital entities, possessing bodies, etc...it is like a completely different game that just looks like sci fi shenanigans that really does not add anything relevant to the franchise in my opinion. There is no mystery or suspense at all...just crazy sci-fi stuff that to be honest wold fit better in Watch Dogs for example.


AC never introduced aliens, so that's not a problem. If it's a typical secret government thing with a normal conspiracy, it will be something like Splinter Cell Conviction. You agains the government. And in case you have forgotten. The First Civ. is biblical people(Isis etc...), they have different name/looks depending on culture.

That was just an example so you can compare it with the present situation of the game. Aliens as the background situation like First Civilization should be vs. Aliens in the spotlight like the First Civilization is right now. The first is cool for me, the second is just pure sci fi that it is not even that well done when compared to other pure sci-fi games.


It's all a matter of perspective. There is no single path through life that's right and fair and does no harm.

Exactly, that is how it happened and there is no argument I can do vs. that. however, now that they have to opportunity to revamp MD I really hope they go along the path i am describing and forget digital head popping up in power cores.



It's gone because most people don't like it, the critic is given to the First Civ. So expect those peoples wishes to come true while the games become simpler while pissing more on the lore because of it. Sounds fun.

That is not really pissing on the lore. MD fans just try to give a lot of weight to something that it really does not have. MD is like 10% of the game and in terms of lore, yes, it is basically an important part of the lore...that does not really mean that they cannot simplify it.

Hans684
09-28-2014, 05:38 PM
Exactly, it is just a matter of different opinions. What do you mean what do I question? What do I question about the game or what kind of mysteries and stuff I am interested in?

Yes I'm talking about mysteries and stuff, it's our topic.


Yes, sadly they are not forgotten...that is my point. I would hardly ever mention them beyond a background and it would be better.

Let's agree to disagree here. Where not on the sane page.


Yes, this is exactly what I mean...First civilization stuff has just gotten ridiculous at this point. It was fine when they were in the background as an ancient civilization that once fabricated these pieces and had these temples...that is fine. However, the moment you start talking about aliens, people coming from the moon, digital entities, possessing bodies, etc...it is like a completely different game that just looks like sci fi shenanigans that really does not add anything relevant to the franchise in my opinion. There is no mystery or suspense at all...just crazy sci-fi stuff that to be honest wold fit better in Watch Dogs for example.

They're not aliens, they never come from the moon(they did only leave an AOE there). The other two is true, sorry to disappoint but the sci fi is part of the lore. For me it's the lore that matters, my view or anyone else's view isn't relevant. The lore is, the story is and the core is. W_D would be worse with sci fi stuff like that, it never had anything like AOE or something like TWCB. It would far more out of place there. AC use mythology and other ancient stuff while W_D is a more realistic world with a simple conspiracy.


That was just an example so you can compare it with the present situation of the game. Aliens as the background situation like First Civilization should be vs. Aliens in the spotlight like the First Civilization is right now. The first is cool for me, the second is just pure sci fi that it is not even that well done when compared to other pure sci-fi games.

The first one doesn't stop the sci if from existing, it just doesn't show it or do anything with it. As in a simple background. The other make it more show and does something with it. As in more than a simple background.


Exactly, that is how it happened and there is no argument I can do vs. that. however, now that they have to opportunity to revamp MD I really hope they go along the path i am describing and forget digital head popping up in power cores.

Agree to disagree.


That is not really pissing on the lore. MD fans just try to give a lot of weight to something that it really does not have. MD is like 10% of the game and in terms of lore, yes, it is basically an important part of the lore...that does not really mean that they cannot simplify it.

You would not say that if they start simplifying the historical part to. And it's because of MD we go back, without that or TWCB before AC would be just a historical game like RDR. Would say simplifying something important is not good. Let me put it this way, both MD/TWCB gives reasons to relive memories. Without it there would be no reasons, no bigger picture other than another Jedi/Sith story trough time that never ends(as in the MD, past, ancient past).

naumaan
09-28-2014, 05:41 PM
modern day gameplay was fun for me, the biggest down of ac for me is that there is no modern day plot to play like we played desmond .. but from the story so far, even if the md is very much less, the way they are exploring md in the games is very interesting .. the first civilization conspiracies are still present and i m up for unity to see how are they going to unfold it

RA503
09-28-2014, 06:11 PM
without the modern day, those who came before, and the pieces of eden the series is 50 % more poor,if is to made totally historical,then get hid of assassins and templars as well and change the games title, why bother to a fight that we know that never ends ?

Alphacos007
09-28-2014, 06:48 PM
without the modern day, those who came before, and the pieces of eden the series is 50 % more poor,if is to made totally historical,then get hid of assassins and templars as well and change the games title, why bother to a fight that we know that never ends ?

This.

Kakuzu745
09-28-2014, 07:49 PM
Yes I'm talking about mysteries and stuff, it's our topic.

Conspiracies, secret treasures, secret projects...that kind of stuff.


They're not aliens, they never come from the moon(they did only leave an AOE there). The other two is true, sorry to disappoint but the sci fi is part of the lore. For me it's the lore that matters, my view or anyone else's view isn't relevant. The lore is, the story is and the core is. W_D would be worse with sci fi stuff like that, it never had anything like AOE or something like TWCB. It would far more out of place there. AC use mythology and other ancient stuff while W_D is a more realistic world with a simple conspiracy.

Again, when I talk about aliens I am just referring to my own example. Yes, it is part because sadly they made it part and that is exactly my point, they should have not. Believe me, what I like the most about franchises that I love is the lore and in AC all the Templars and Assassins ongoing war for those powerful relics is great. TWCB, Juno and all that stuff is just trying to explore other branches of the conflict and to be honest they did it in the worst possible way.

The main part of the lore is the timeless war between these guys for those treasures. That is the core. Exploring who owned/made those treasures before is just a ramification which to be honest does not seem to be working that well. I can tolerate it because it belongs to a much bigger lore that I actually enjoy but again, if they decide to reduce the protagonism of the First Civilization to only being part of the lore background I would be OK with it and it wouldn't really affect the core of the lore.


The first one doesn't stop the sci if from existing, it just doesn't show it or do anything with it. As in a simple background. The other make it more show and does something with it. As in more than a simple background.

Exactly, I prefer the simple background, I am guessing you prefer the second one.


You would not say that if they start simplifying the historical part to. And it's because of MD we go back, without that or TWCB before AC would be just a historical game like RDR. Would say simplifying something important is not good. Let me put it this way, both MD/TWCB gives reasons to relive memories. Without it there would be no reasons, no bigger picture other than another Jedi/Sith story trough time that never ends(as in the MD, past, ancient past).

Let me be really clear about this...I am not against MD, I do not necessarily want it to be removed, however, I did enjoy it AC1 MD more because it did not directly involved all that TWCB shenanigans in a direct way. You can have many reasons for the war and develop many plots in MD that would be great...without actually showing Minerva in the Vatican or Juno in a Power Core.

You cannot compare the ancestor's part vs. MD...MD is like 10% of the game at most while the ancestor's part is the main reason why people buy the game.

All in all I guess we will not agree since you enjoy First Civilization stuff way too much. At this point, to be honest it is not even a matter of TWCB being there or not...there is not even a proper MD so let's see what will happen in Unity with this new MD version...you will cheer for the First Civ. to be on the spotlight, I will cheer for them to be in the background.

Sushiglutton
09-28-2014, 08:04 PM
Great story.

Can you tuck me in now?

EDIT: By the way did you actually make that up yourself? It's awesome.

Haha thanks! The happy ending makes it great as a bedtime story :)!



Poor story but got the point, and compering the MD part to a dying old historian with nothing to do compared to a world with conspiracies, killings left and right, a never ending battle etc... Doesn't work that well. And both of us can twist this both ways saying taking away the MD is pleasing everyone(I'd say it's true, they're the majority. Even in the forums, so they are "everyone") or the other way around.

So you are saying no Nobel prize for me in December? Rest of your post is a bit confusing, sorry!



I get you point, however, the thing is MD is already a part of the game...we are not talking about early footage where you can just scrap that historian. Whether you like it or not MD is already a part of the lore and everything so the least Ubi should do is incorporate in a better way.

I would be even fine if MD is only Initiates, but there has to be an MD right now, that is the reality.

I beg to differ. If the MD part was removed from AC4 very little would be missed. Edward's story works great on its own. The sage thing was a nice twist but not really needed. The secret temple Edward was searching for could still be in the game without the MD. Just don't have it in the game and the story of the ancestor will work just as fine anyway (with perhaps some minor tweaks).

Moving it completely to Initiates would be fine by me.



without the modern day, those who came before, and the pieces of eden the series is 50 % more poor,if is to made totally historical,then get hid of assassins and templars as well and change the games title, why bother to a fight that we know that never ends ?

No one (at least not me) is saying they should remove first civ and the pieces of Eden. On the contrary I want more secret tombs and mysteries. However there's zero need for MD to be able to include that stuff. None at all. Seperate issues all together.

Kakuzu745
09-28-2014, 08:51 PM
I beg to differ. If the MD part was removed from AC4 very little would be missed. Edward's story works great on its own. The sage thing was a nice twist but not really needed. The secret temple Edward was searching for could still be in the game without the MD. Just don't have it in the game and the story of the ancestor will work just as fine anyway (with perhaps some minor tweaks).

Moving it completely to Initiates would be fine by me.

More or less we agree...I mean if you remove from AC4 the game is strong by itself because to be honest we have not had a decent MD for 2 years now. However, I do think something like what was done early in the franchise would be awesome...go back to those roots.

That being said, I would also be fine if they move it to only Initiates.


No one (at least not me) is saying they should remove first civ and the pieces of Eden. On the contrary I want more secret tombs and mysteries. However there's zero need for MD to be able to include that stuff. None at all. Seperate issues all together.

Exactly...thing is MD is such a convoluted mess right now that they really need to clean it up a little.

RinoTheBouncer
09-28-2014, 08:52 PM
Yes I'm talking about mysteries and stuff, it's our topic.



Let's agree to disagree here. Where not on the sane page.



They're not aliens, they never come from the moon(they did only leave an AOE there). The other two is true, sorry to disappoint but the sci fi is part of the lore. For me it's the lore that matters, my view or anyone else's view isn't relevant. The lore is, the story is and the core is. W_D would be worse with sci fi stuff like that, it never had anything like AOE or something like TWCB. It would far more out of place there. AC use mythology and other ancient stuff while W_D is a more realistic world with a simple conspiracy.



The first one doesn't stop the sci if from existing, it just doesn't show it or do anything with it. As in a simple background. The other make it more show and does something with it. As in more than a simple background.



Agree to disagree.



You would not say that if they start simplifying the historical part to. And it's because of MD we go back, without that or TWCB before AC would be just a historical game like RDR. Would say simplifying something important is not good. Let me put it this way, both MD/TWCB gives reasons to relive memories. Without it there would be no reasons, no bigger picture other than another Jedi/Sith story trough time that never ends(as in the MD, past, ancient past).

I agree with every single word, Hans.

JustPlainQuirky
09-28-2014, 08:54 PM
http://i.imgur.com/rsLjtbK.png

Fatal-Feit
09-28-2014, 09:16 PM
All the stuff you "fixed" was in previous games. We saw Juno before, we saw a first civ place before, we saw desmond interactions before. The stuff you think is "cool" is subjective. Nothing I said was subjective, they were all new things.

No they all weren't.

AC:3's modern day gave players a First Civ location as an explorable new hub. Desmond's father was finally an interacting character who had an interesting chemistry with Desmond. They introduced real modern day missions with some activities I already named. We also got Daniel Cross. We assassinated Warren Vidic. We got insight on how the First Civ tried to stop their destruction. We learned of Juno and Minerva's true plan and both Desmond and modern day's future. We got closure to Desmond's Saga.

Hans684
09-28-2014, 09:59 PM
I agree with every single word, Hans.

Thanks my friend and your signature is the best one so far.


So you are saying no Nobel prize for me in December? Rest of your post is a bit confusing, sorry!

No Nobel prize for you, deal with it!

What I said, you compared an old man with nothing to do against a world of conspiracies and a never ending battle that also has mythology. Doesn't work that well. Poor story.

We can both make our own plot twist on why [not] removing MD because they want to please everyone, but the majority dislike MD. So I'd say that those people are "everyone", they're bigger in numbers and louder. Easy to please, like children. If they cry for candy, give them candy and they will stop for a while until they want more candy, so they getting more and more candy. At the end they become spoiled kinds wanting things their way or nothing at all. But as I've said you can make your own twist on why the mimiority is [funny enough] "everyone".

Journey93
09-28-2014, 09:59 PM
without the modern day, those who came before, and the pieces of eden the series is 50 % more poor,if is to made totally historical,then get hid of assassins and templars as well and change the games title, why bother to a fight that we know that never ends ?

I agree god this series is going downhill very fast hope more people realize this

RinoTheBouncer
09-28-2014, 10:05 PM
Thanks my friend and your signature is the best one so far..
REALLY?! thanks.. Glad you like it, my friend.
Ezio’s my favorite, especially in AC:R and this trailer, most specifically.

Fatal-Feit
09-28-2014, 10:12 PM
I agree god this series is going downhill very fast hope more people realize this

The series is going uphill after its downhill for me.

Alphacos007
09-28-2014, 10:20 PM
The series is going uphill after its downhill for me.

Agreed. I believe the series went downhill for a while but now they are going up again.

RinoTheBouncer
09-28-2014, 10:21 PM
In terms of gameplay, itís definitely improving, but in terms of story, and interconnected-ness, itís definitely going downhill, at least for me.

pacmanate
09-28-2014, 10:23 PM
What Rino said.

At least the quality stays the same and doesnt decrease. If it goes up (Like AC4 to AC3, and Unity to AC4) then even better.

RinoTheBouncer
09-28-2014, 10:30 PM
Thanks Pac ;)
I just hope the story does get some improvements, and for the love of God, just take us out of Europe and the 18th century...

Fatal-Feit
09-28-2014, 10:33 PM
To each their own, I guess.

The story department is the one thing that's incredibly improved, in my opinion.

Felix-Vivo
09-28-2014, 10:33 PM
Well, maybe I'm in the minority here, but I liked pretty much all of the modern day stuff for what it is. There were times in AC4 when I was looking forward more to getting the next level security clearance than I was to find out what Edward was up to.

At the same time, it's also become very convoluted and anyone who tries to insist that AC3's modern day storyline was intended to happen like that from the start is kidding themselves

RinoTheBouncer
09-28-2014, 10:38 PM
Well, maybe I'm in the minority here, but I liked pretty much all of the modern day stuff for what it is. There were times in AC4 when I was looking forward more to getting the next level security clearance than I was to find out what Edward was up to.

At the same time, it's also become very convoluted and anyone who tries to insist that AC3's modern day storyline was intended to happen like that from the start is kidding themselves

I loved the franchise since ACI for the Modern Day and First Civ. elements, and I still do and get more disappointed when I see them downgrading it. And I agree that ACIII’s modern day is beyond rushed and totally not what was intended, at least the ending was probably planned to be more theatrical than the trash we got.

pacmanate
09-28-2014, 10:42 PM
Well, maybe I'm in the minority here, but I liked pretty much all of the modern day stuff for what it is. There were times in AC4 when I was looking forward more to getting the next level security clearance than I was to find out what Edward was up to.

At the same time, it's also become very convoluted and anyone who tries to insist that AC3's modern day storyline was intended to happen like that from the start is kidding themselves

Agree but at the same time, AC3's ending wasn't bad, it was the execution of it

Felix-Vivo
09-28-2014, 10:47 PM
I loved the franchise since ACI for the Modern Day and First Civ. elements, and I still do and get more disappointed when I see them downgrading it. And I agree that ACIII’s modern day is beyond rushed and totally not what was intended, at least the ending was probably planned to be more theatrical than the trash we got.

Yeah. I kind of feel like the modern day story isn't really... going anywhere at the moment. I remember getting goosebumps at the end of ACR when they opened the van doors onto the Grand Temple and being so excited for how that was all going to play out and conclude after 5 games in the making. And of course, it was nothing like I expected, the ending was weird, but then I was thinking, 'It's not all bad... because in the next game Juno will be terrorizing the earth and it will be awesome!' But then in AC4 it was like nothing had happened at all (aside from her brief cameo).

I don't know. What I think I'm trying to say is that right now the modern day story lacks a sense of urgency.


Agree but at the same time, AC3's ending wasn't bad, it was the execution of it

Yeah, this is it. I really liked it at the time because it was a bit of a curveball, but looking back it could have been played out more effectively than all being crammed into the last 10 minutes or so. Bioshock: Infinite did it right, because even though the last 20 minutes were a mindbender, on replaying the seeds for it were woven so thoroughly all the way through. I think that's what AC3 needed.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
09-28-2014, 10:51 PM
I still loved the MD of AC2, ACB, and, to an extent, ACR though it didn't further anything at all, really. AC3 is where the MD got massively screwed. Yes, it began as a conspiracy, and really, there was the mystery of what exactly WAS going to happen on December 21st and HOW in the WORLD, Desmond could stop it when these clearly more advanced people could not.

I hated how they shuffled Lucy out of the picture, giving her no real exit other than "now she's dead, uh she was a Templar" and that's it. Regardless of whether it was planned from the start or not... the way they did it made it seem like a tacked on thing to justify Bell leaving the series. Bad. But I could live with that. The MD was all about Desmond becoming an Assassin.

In AC1: he learns and discovers (or rediscovers) the Assassins, the Templars, and their neverending war. He is introduced to the Bleeding Effect which allows him to see things using Eagle Vision that no one else can -- the blood of Subject 16.

In AC2: the Assassins decide toutilize Ezio for multiple reasons, to gain insight into what he knew about the Pieces of Eden while simultaneously allowing Desmond to absorb all of the training Ezio received. Whereas Altair spent a lifetime training, Ezio learned at a significantly later age which is more inline with Desmond who's an out of shape bartender. Going on that journey, the Bleeding Effect takes hold and he's able to climb and free run like his ancestors, like an Assassin. He's even given a hidden blade which he briefly gets to use. We find symbols placed into the simulation by Subject 16.

In ACB: they move to the Villa where Desmond and co. continue their journey with Ezio. At the end, they travel to the Colosseum where Desmond gets to actually utilize his skills outside of practice by traversing the Colosseum and then the temple of Juno. Lucy dies, Desmond goes into a coma. More Subject 16 data.

In ACR: Altair's story is concluded. Ezio's story is concluded and with it, he passes the torch along to Desmond, a person he does not know personally but DOES know is watching. Subject 16 helps Desmond sort through his personal memories and escape the Animus.

At this point, I'm hyped for Desmond to be a full fledged Assassin. Obviously I didn't expect NOR want a modern day AC featuring Desmond but I was hoping that AC3 would feature a historical aspect and that in between, Desmond would go on missions to both assassinate high ranking Templars AND collect pieces of Eden or some other TOWCB artifacts in order to help solve the mystery/impending doom. Instead we got a mission of climbing an empty skyscraper with a cutscene depicting him acquiring the artifact instead of letting us sneak through to get it. We got a linear mission set at an MMA stadium which felt the closest to Desmond being an actual Assassin but should have been more open with more routes (though that could be said for the entirety of AC3, ugh), and yeah. The Desmond missions were half-arsed and then the ending was even worse. It's like, he did everything and then just died. And Juno escaped. There was no sense of fulfillment, conclusion, or of even BEING an Assassin. I guess he prevented the world from being destroyed (???) but it didn't feel satisfying in the least. The entire series was building up the idea that Desmond was going to be a full fledged Assassin AND save the world but no. Nothing.

Haven't played AC4's modern day story. The idea of exploring Abstergo from a first person view is interesting. The idea SOUNDS like it could vaguely be like the MD of AC1 (walking around an Abstergo facility and sneaking into emails and whatnot) but after the horrible ending to Desmond, it just... do I even care? And lots of people thought it was bad it seems.

As for Unity's MD... jeeeez. Who knows? We have absolutely no actual idea of what it'll be, though we have some good theories and educated guesses but still. It's like, again... at this point... do I even care about the MD? That's how royally screwed up AC3's MD was and how awfully Desmond's story ended. And that sucks because the rest of AC3's story was good -- I loved Connor, Haytham, the other Templars, Achilles, etc. The plot was good and everything but....nnnnnope. AC3 was a mess; the gameplay overall, the cities, the Modern Day missions, the horrible ending to Desmond, and the linearity was abysmal.

Journey93
09-28-2014, 10:53 PM
Thanks Pac ;)
I just hope the story does get some improvements, and for the love of God, just take us out of Europe and the 18th century...

^ This so much this Ubisoft listen to this guy immeditately
But sadly they are dragging it out so that they can reuse the assets again and again
I can only imagine how much of an effort a game in China would be

RinoTheBouncer
09-29-2014, 12:45 AM
^ This so much this Ubisoft listen to this guy immeditately
But sadly they are dragging it out so that they can reuse the assets again and again
I can only imagine how much of an effort a game in China would be

Thank you! :cool:

I just hope that the next game will be what ACIII was to ACII and ACII was to ACI, a major change, not a reuse of assets and a similar century and continent. I wonder what’ll come next after AC:U that can help them reuse the assets. Germany maybe? Belgium? England? Span? Portugal? Russia Like those are the most relevant locations that can make benefit of the assets of AC:U.

For me, I want a major change, I want us to go to China, Japan, India, Iraq, Egypt. And my lifetime wish is that we go back to ancient times in Babylon or Sumer, or hell even the Roman Empire or Ancient Greece. I’m sick of being stuck between 1100 and 1800.

MakimotoJin
09-29-2014, 01:30 AM
I think that having both historical and modern days could be open world.For example,the more you use the Animus,the more experience you earn to do missions in the modern day.I also think that there should be a naval online open world mode,but that's not gonna happen.

Alphacos007
09-29-2014, 02:34 AM
I think that having both historical and modern days could be open world.For example,the more you use the Animus,the more experience you earn to do missions in the modern day.I also think that there should be a naval online open world mode,but that's not gonna happen.

Actually, there was supposed to be online naval battles for AC4, but they couldn't get it ready before the game's release, just like boarding in AC3 had to be made in a cutscene, as they couldn't get it ready in AC4-style before release (I remember this info from an Interview with the devs right after AC4's launch). I tought they would add it in the next game of the series, but seeing that Rogue does not feature multiplayer, and Unity doesn't have ships, I suppose it has been completely scrapped.
For the modern day open world, I don't think it would be a good idea, I think something more like AC3 one would be good, except it should be made optional. I really love modern days and I would do all the missions for sure, but for people who don't, there could be a skip mission option, like in AC3 where Desmond's father goes in a mission instead of Desmond himself.

MakimotoJin
09-29-2014, 02:55 AM
I see.In second thoughts,I think a modern open world wouldn't be very nice.Trying to free-run while some cops shoot at you might not be cool.

Fatal-Feit
09-29-2014, 03:59 AM
Actually, there was supposed to be online naval battles for AC4, but they couldn't get it ready before the game's release, just like boarding in AC3 had to be made in a cutscene, as they couldn't get it ready in AC4-style before release (I remember this info from an Interview with the devs right after AC4's launch). I tought they would add it in the next game of the series, but seeing that Rogue does not feature multiplayer, and Unity doesn't have ships, I suppose it has been completely scrapped.

Well, now that you mention it...

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

That would have made Rogue sell like hotcakes.

Mr.Black24
09-29-2014, 06:31 AM
I still loved the MD of AC2, ACB, and, to an extent, ACR though it didn't further anything at all, really. AC3 is where the MD got massively screwed. Yes, it began as a conspiracy, and really, there was the mystery of what exactly WAS going to happen on December 21st and HOW in the WORLD, Desmond could stop it when these clearly more advanced people could not.

I hated how they shuffled Lucy out of the picture, giving her no real exit other than "now she's dead, uh she was a Templar" and that's it. Regardless of whether it was planned from the start or not... the way they did it made it seem like a tacked on thing to justify Bell leaving the series. Bad. But I could live with that. The MD was all about Desmond becoming an Assassin.

In AC1: he learns and discovers (or rediscovers) the Assassins, the Templars, and their neverending war. He is introduced to the Bleeding Effect which allows him to see things using Eagle Vision that no one else can -- the blood of Subject 16.

In AC2: the Assassins decide toutilize Ezio for multiple reasons, to gain insight into what he knew about the Pieces of Eden while simultaneously allowing Desmond to absorb all of the training Ezio received. Whereas Altair spent a lifetime training, Ezio learned at a significantly later age which is more inline with Desmond who's an out of shape bartender. Going on that journey, the Bleeding Effect takes hold and he's able to climb and free run like his ancestors, like an Assassin. He's even given a hidden blade which he briefly gets to use. We find symbols placed into the simulation by Subject 16.

In ACB: they move to the Villa where Desmond and co. continue their journey with Ezio. At the end, they travel to the Colosseum where Desmond gets to actually utilize his skills outside of practice by traversing the Colosseum and then the temple of Juno. Lucy dies, Desmond goes into a coma. More Subject 16 data.

In ACR: Altair's story is concluded. Ezio's story is concluded and with it, he passes the torch along to Desmond, a person he does not know personally but DOES know is watching. Subject 16 helps Desmond sort through his personal memories and escape the Animus.

At this point, I'm hyped for Desmond to be a full fledged Assassin. Obviously I didn't expect NOR want a modern day AC featuring Desmond but I was hoping that AC3 would feature a historical aspect and that in between, Desmond would go on missions to both assassinate high ranking Templars AND collect pieces of Eden or some other TOWCB artifacts in order to help solve the mystery/impending doom. Instead we got a mission of climbing an empty skyscraper with a cutscene depicting him acquiring the artifact instead of letting us sneak through to get it. We got a linear mission set at an MMA stadium which felt the closest to Desmond being an actual Assassin but should have been more open with more routes (though that could be said for the entirety of AC3, ugh), and yeah. The Desmond missions were half-arsed and then the ending was even worse. It's like, he did everything and then just died. And Juno escaped. There was no sense of fulfillment, conclusion, or of even BEING an Assassin. I guess he prevented the world from being destroyed (???) but it didn't feel satisfying in the least. The entire series was building up the idea that Desmond was going to be a full fledged Assassin AND save the world but no. Nothing.

Haven't played AC4's modern day story. The idea of exploring Abstergo from a first person view is interesting. The idea SOUNDS like it could vaguely be like the MD of AC1 (walking around an Abstergo facility and sneaking into emails and whatnot) but after the horrible ending to Desmond, it just... do I even care? And lots of people thought it was bad it seems.

As for Unity's MD... jeeeez. Who knows? We have absolutely no actual idea of what it'll be, though we have some good theories and educated guesses but still. It's like, again... at this point... do I even care about the MD? That's how royally screwed up AC3's MD was and how awfully Desmond's story ended. And that sucks because the rest of AC3's story was good -- I loved Connor, Haytham, the other Templars, Achilles, etc. The plot was good and everything but....nnnnnope. AC3 was a mess; the gameplay overall, the cities, the Modern Day missions, the horrible ending to Desmond, and the linearity was abysmal. YES! You pretty much captured how I felt about this. I mean guys, Desmond is descended of various legendary Assassins. After the end of AC:R, I was hoping that Desmond would live up to his ancestors, become a modern day Master Assassin and do all kinds of cool stuff in the modern days like how BoB described, assassinating high ranking Templars, collecting pieces of Eden or some other TOWCB artifacts, which of course which was the batteries and Amulet . Granted yeah, it was cool climbing the Freedom Tower, and looking at dat view, but it was just that. Not very eventful and incredibly flaccid. The Stadium was the closest thing, as BoB described, of being a modern day Assassin that Ubisoft was building up to be. The Back to Abstergo mission was cool in one thing, but was a huge letdown in so many other ways.

Fighting the Abstergo guards was just as I wanted. However, they were just a bunch of limp **** security guards, ALL WHO WERE MOSTLY UNARMED!!! Desmond had a combat knife and a hidden blade, and the Templars sent, what, these half assed guards who attacked me with fists? Only 3 guys had the combat batons, and at the end of the level is when guns started appearing. Remember at the first game when you heard a gunfight between 6 Assassins and Abstergo militia? I was hoping for something like that, I thought it was going for something like that. I mean what happened to Desmond, descendant of 3 legendary Master Assassins, going up against the elite Master Templars that Abstergo was training, or at least another group set, since Juhani himself is part of another group set that plays a part in the lore, that Ubisoft was building up too? And sure, cool, we did assassinate Daniel and Vidic, but I hoped for a better closure that just fade out to another cutscene. Has anyone heard the deleted Daniel Cross Memory Corridor dialogue. After the events in The Chain and The Fall, this would have closed the book on him perfectly. Instead, it was just a drop. Same with Vidic, instead of hearing some final words between Desmond and Vidic, which would have been a great opportunity to show Desmond as a full developed character who understands the responsibility of being an Assassin, instead another drop.

During all of these, it tried building up to the moment when Desmond sacrifies himself to save the world. But instead of making me go "Desmond, wait! HolY BALLZ dude! Damm, your ancestors would be proud of you." it made me go, "Wait...thats it?" The whole MD section of AC3 was a mess.

AC4 was ok, had great files and audio footage for me to dig into. I really hated the fact that it was "us" that we were supposed to be as in the MD. That felt really cheap. We could have various MD characters facing the Assassin/Templar war like how the historical ones do. Like first Desmond Miles, a man who ran away from his heritage, who came back from running away, just in time to realize his heritage, those who fought to protect this world, and do just that, save the world. And than we could have gone to the Abstergo Employee, instead a nameless dude, it can be about a gifted hacker(name inserted here), making ends meet, creating an awesome game who unfortunately stumbled upon the secret war who is now forced to be on the run. Build up this guy and make him awesome. Perhaps a better predecessor from Desmond. I just hope that for AC:U, it gets a huge overhaul.

Hans684
09-29-2014, 07:13 PM
Conspiracies, secret treasures, secret projects...that kind of stuff.



Again, when I talk about aliens I am just referring to my own example. Yes, it is part because sadly they made it part and that is exactly my point, they should have not. Believe me, what I like the most about franchises that I love is the lore and in AC all the Templars and Assassins ongoing war for those powerful relics is great. TWCB, Juno and all that stuff is just trying to explore other branches of the conflict and to be honest they did it in the worst possible way.

The main part of the lore is the timeless war between these guys for those treasures. That is the core. Exploring who owned/made those treasures before is just a ramification which to be honest does not seem to be working that well. I can tolerate it because it belongs to a much bigger lore that I actually enjoy but again, if they decide to reduce the protagonism of the First Civilization to only being part of the lore background I would be OK with it and it wouldn't really affect the core of the lore.



Exactly, I prefer the simple background, I am guessing you prefer the second one.



Let me be really clear about this...I am not against MD, I do not necessarily want it to be removed, however, I did enjoy it AC1 MD more because it did not directly involved all that TWCB shenanigans in a direct way. You can have many reasons for the war and develop many plots in MD that would be great...without actually showing Minerva in the Vatican or Juno in a Power Core.

You cannot compare the ancestor's part vs. MD...MD is like 10% of the game at most while the ancestor's part is the main reason why people buy the game.

All in all I guess we will not agree since you enjoy First Civilization stuff way too much. At this point, to be honest it is not even a matter of TWCB being there or not...there is not even a proper MD so let's see what will happen in Unity with this new MD version...you will cheer for the First Civ. to be on the spotlight, I will cheer for them to be in the background.

Let's agree to disagree, I lost my wall of tekst with damn good quality but I forgot to copy it before replying to Sushi and Rio(yesterday day, sorry!). And I don't remember it word by word so I'm out. Can't reach the same quality again on only memory, tried today and it's as bad as it gets. Let's hope for the same topic in the future and a rematch.


REALLY?! thanks.. Glad you like it, my friend.
Ezioís my favorite, especially in AC:R and this trailer, most specifically.

Indeed keep it but there is one thing I would have changed, I would have ended it with the broken arrow and cape at the ground.

Kakuzu745
09-29-2014, 08:24 PM
For me, I want a major change, I want us to go to China, Japan, India, Iraq, Egypt. And my lifetime wish is that we go back to ancient times in Babylon or Sumer, or hell even the Roman Empire or Ancient Greece. Iím sick of being stuck between 1100 and 1800.

Not to mention going to an ancient civilization would allow them to explore new lore stuff since all these civilizations have their fair share of secrecy and mystery that surrounds them. It would be the perfect setup to elaborate on a "new MD story".



Let's agree to disagree, I lost my wall of tekst with damn good quality but I forgot to copy it before replying to Sushi and Rio(yesterday day, sorry!). And I don't remember it word by word so I'm out. Can't reach the same quality again on only memory, tried today and it's as bad as it gets. Let's hope for the same topic in the future and a rematch.

Perfect my friend. We both live to fight another day ;)

Layytez
09-29-2014, 09:40 PM
There was a modern day tease in that customisation video that came out on the 26th. You could see one of the symbols Clay wrote in blood behind Anro.

Kakuzu745
09-30-2014, 04:09 PM
There was a modern day tease in that customisation video that came out on the 26th. You could see one of the symbols Clay wrote in blood behind Anro.

You mean the Lorenz thing? Ya that is one of the things that made me create this thread.

MakimotoJin
09-30-2014, 06:21 PM
There was a modern day tease in that customisation video that came out on the 26th. You could see one of the symbols Clay wrote in blood behind Anro.

But isn't the symbols Clay made to Desmond,to warn about the "Sun apocalypse thing"?And isn't Desmond dead?Oh my,so much conspiracies.

Layytez
09-30-2014, 06:24 PM
But isn't the symbols Clay made to Desmond,to warn about the "Sun apocalypse thing"?And isn't Desmond dead?Oh my,so much conspiracies.
Don't think that particular symbol was in reference to the Sun but it's still interesting that it's shown up again.

MakimotoJin
09-30-2014, 06:40 PM
Don't think that particular symbol was in reference to the Sun but it's still interesting that it's shown up again.

Alright so I got some more interest about those symbols,since I clearly don't know anything about it.
Apperently Clay made these symbols for tons of reasons.About Abstergo screwing with his mind,about religion,the pieces of Eden,and the end of the world too.But why would this be in Unity?

Layytez
09-30-2014, 09:37 PM
Alright so I got some more interest about those symbols,since I clearly don't know anything about it.
Apperently Clay made these symbols for tons of reasons.About Abstergo screwing with his mind,about religion,the pieces of Eden,and the end of the world too.But why would this be in Unity?
That's why :rolleyes:

DumbGamerTag94
09-30-2014, 09:49 PM
Wait the good old days were the Modern Day parts????

Huh could have fooled me. And the general consumer public as it's generally considered the worst part of AC.

And in a personal note I've always thought it was insanely annoying and convoluted. Not to mention hard to follow if you were dropped into the middle of it without playing the other games or using google/the wiki.

AdamPearce
10-01-2014, 12:59 AM
It was reppelled by the public because it was badly developed. I can assure if the MD parts were made in a quality concept, people would have loved them. The Plot is good, but the realisation sucked, unfortunately.

DumbGamerTag94
10-01-2014, 02:20 AM
I think it is more despised by the public for the fact that nobody really gives a **** and they keep yanking you out of whatever historical setting you are in(you know the REAL part of the game that people buy it for!) to deal with pointless MD ****. It's more of a nusence than anything. It's like a forced commercial break from the actual relevant part of the game that people want to play.

Sure the concept is cool and the story had potential. But it never really needed to be there. They could have told the evolution of the assassin Templar war through the historic parts only with each new setting. But instead they went with trying to tell two stories at once for some reason. Thus resulting in a half baked not fully realized meta story that serves as nothing more than a pointless and unwarranted diversion from the actual game and does little more than listen to poorly realized characters whine about things in secret bases and go on fetch quests that are sooooooo exciting like: pull leavers, open fuse boxes, turn on security systems, read emails, listen to whiney dialogues, etc(it makes homestead missions look like a high speed action movie).

MD was never good. I don't understand how people like it or defend it. It literally sucks and is impossible to fully follow and have all of it make sense because parts of that story get completely forgotten or just never explained or change completely(including main characters appearances: Desmond, Rebbecca?)

Most people that like it say "it has so much potential" "it was never realized correctly" "I like the conspiracy stuff they should have elaborated more" "they just need to figure out a direction" Etc etc. But all that those things mean is that those things have always been missing. That it has always been terrible. Just because something "could" have been great doesn't mean that it is. The truth is that Modern Day in AC is terrible. Nobody truely likes it(even those who do want it to change because it isn't that great). And the great majority of the public just wants it gone. So why are we sitting around makig excuses to justify it???(ironically a great number of these people are also AC3 haters which is often defend using the same "it had potential" argument yet apparently that illogical argument only works when it suits them)

The point is MD is stupid and should never have been a part of the series to begin with. So let's just get over it and let it die. Or at the very least just get pushed so far to the fringe of the games that it's barely noticeable or relevant(and has it really been that relevant since ACB really? Except maybe for AC3).

AdamPearce
10-01-2014, 04:12 AM
MD would have worked if ACII hadn't existed.

AC1 brought up that very interesting idea that even after a thousand years (Altair), mankind was still roughly the same, that they never truly learned and were almost condemned to an infinite cycle of war and destruction. Than we had Vidic's 'lesson' that made a perfect paradox with Al-Mualim speeches and therefore made both more impactfull. Truly it was a brilliant narrative structure. The only problem was the realisation, or the presentation call it what you want, it just felt weird because everything was gamey and square and therefore shaded the actual conversations. Sequence shot would have been great, Kojima should have done the MD.
Add mysteries, a cliffhanger and BOOM, you got addicted fans.

Then AC2 happened, and everything got wrong (see M for details).

Seriously I'm pretty if they could pull off an appealing character with a good base storyline (therefore making the character interesting rather than the situation around him) with a heavy cinematic aspect (to break the gameplay feel of the Animus), it would be perfect.

Yes, I want Eve's Descendant repeating the same war as here ancestors and making the same mistake but one to demonstrate the triviality of human self-counsciousness but also to preserve a sign of hope for the eyes of future generations omg i want to save child in africa.

DumbGamerTag94
10-01-2014, 04:20 AM
But that's only what ifs and hypotheticals. That unfortunately not what we have in reality.

It's nice to say "it'd be good if....." Or "if they did X instead". But that isn't what we have. That's your vision of what it SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

Unfortunately that isn't what we got. The reality is that we got a steaming pile of crap that sucks.

What's done is done and it can't be reversed. They can't save MD from the mess it's become.

Layytez
10-01-2014, 04:24 AM
I think it is more despised by the public for the fact that nobody really gives a **** and they keep yanking you out of whatever historical setting you are in(you know the REAL part of the game that people buy it for!) to deal with pointless MD ****. It's more of a nusence than anything. It's like a forced commercial break from the actual relevant part of the game that people want to play.

Sure the concept is cool and the story had potential. But it never really needed to be there. They could have told the evolution of the assassin Templar war through the historic parts only with each new setting. But instead they went with trying to tell two stories at once for some reason. Thus resulting in a half baked not fully realized meta story that serves as nothing more than a pointless and unwarranted diversion from the actual game and does little more than listen to poorly realized characters whine about things in secret bases and go on fetch quests that are sooooooo exciting like: pull leavers, open fuse boxes, turn on security systems, read emails, listen to whiney dialogues, etc(it makes homestead missions look like a high speed action movie).

MD was never good. I don't understand how people like it or defend it. It literally sucks and is impossible to fully follow and have all of it make sense because parts of that story get completely forgotten or just never explained or change completely(including main characters appearances: Desmond, Rebbecca?)

Most people that like it say "it has so much potential" "it was never realized correctly" "I like the conspiracy stuff they should have elaborated more" "they just need to figure out a direction" Etc etc. But all that those things mean is that those things have always been missing. That it has always been terrible. Just because something "could" have been great doesn't mean that it is. The truth is that Modern Day in AC is terrible. Nobody truely likes it(even those who do want it to change because it isn't that great). And the great majority of the public just wants it gone. So why are we sitting around makig excuses to justify it???(ironically a great number of these people are also AC3 haters which is often defend using the same "it had potential" argument yet apparently that illogical argument only works when it suits them)

The point is MD is stupid and should never have been a part of the series to begin with. So let's just get over it and let it die. Or at the very least just get pushed so far to the fringe of the games that it's barely noticeable or relevant(and has it really been that relevant since ACB really? Except maybe for AC3).
Take away the MD and you take away the purpose of going into the past. You could say the historic gameplay with Templars and Assassins would be the same but it wouldn't. You would ask why are they fighting ? Are they still fighting today ? Why are we playing as this person in this time ? What are we doing ? Is it important ? And so on. One cannot exist without the other without totally changing the historic gameplay that we have today.

Xstantin
10-01-2014, 04:37 AM
I'm still not sure what to make of Eve and unlocking "the Sixth" from the Brotherhood times.

Layytez
10-01-2014, 04:43 AM
I'm still not sure what to make of Eve and unlocking "the Sixth" from the Brotherhood times.
Don't think they have completely forgotten about Eve since she was mentioned latest in Liberation. I think UbiGabe also said something about "it's still continuing" or something along those lines. As for "the Sixth"...no idea. Could be the Sixth sense or the Sixth method of salvation which I think was what Juno did....

DumbGamerTag94
10-01-2014, 04:45 AM
Take away the MD and you take away the purpose of going into the past. You could say the historic gameplay with Templars and Assassins would be the same but it wouldn't. You would ask why are they fighting ? Are they still fighting today ? Why are we playing as this person in this time ? What are we doing ? Is it important ? And so on. One cannot exist without the other without totally changing the historic gameplay that we have today.

No that's not true. You can set the entire thing in the historic part and elaborate on the Assassin- Templar thing. Firstly the continued existence of the Templars and assassins can be explained in the games(which it was btw by Mario in AC2 and Achilles in AC3 and AhTabi and Mary Reed in AC4). So yeah that's not an issue. You can get the gist that they went underground and have been manipulating things for a very long time after the crusades(you would even still learn about older assassins from things like AC2s tombs and Family Crypt).

You don't need a reason for going back and witnessing these things other than entertainment of the player. Does COD explain why they relive WW2 or Vietnam for some present day purpose? No. Does Metal Gear need MD reasoning to show snakes earlier years in the 1960s-1980s? No. You don't need MD to have POEs. You could have had the Ones who came before speak to the ancestors rather than Desmond. MD isn't necessary to these games I don't know where you're pulling this claim from?

You could even not have all the characters related. You could have these people be chosen by idk a game firm saying their lives need to be studied for their important impacts on history an mankinds fate. This said company could even hide glyphs in the history simulation to expose other parts of history and the Templar assassin role in it. All without having clay, Shaun, Rebecca, and co.

The company could even put the database entries in the game to help the players with their background on the history around them. The MD Desmond And co meta story was not needed. EVER. to claim so is utterly absurd.

But I'm not saying get rid of MD entirely. There would still be the justification of a modern company making these games to expose these organizations. But that would be it. No convoluted BS or whiney characters nobody gives a damn about. Just much more in depth story for the parts people care about. Less wasted assets and time too.

And BTW if you say I am insane or that my description of what AC SOULD be sounds familiar.....that would probably be because it sounds almost exactly like what they have been saying they are doing with Unity and the "new direction" of MD. So Ubi must be as crazy as me.

Xstantin
10-01-2014, 04:49 AM
@The-Hollow,
So technically Desmond unlocking the sixth (method, not sense) would become a ghost in the machine? I'm not serious, but still pfffftt.

Layytez
10-01-2014, 04:51 AM
@The-Hollow,
So technically Desmond unlocking the sixth (method, not sense) would become a ghost in the machine? I'm not serious, but still pfffftt.
No lol what I meant was awaken the sixth method which was to let Juno out of the machine/temple.

Fatal-Feit
10-01-2014, 04:59 AM
I've got agree with Bmark wholeheartedly on the past games. Modern day have always been more of a wish and want type of thing. That is probably why I enjoy AC:IV's modern day much more than the rest. (not exactly 3, though) For what it delivered, it felt complete. And was mostly optional.

The developers, themselves, knows this, and that's exactly why they are continuing this route for the franchise. I don't blame them, nor do am I disappointed. My brother who 100% completed AC:IV after skipping most of Revelations and 3 was surprisingly satisfied with the modern day. He felt it catered to all fans, including casuals like himself, while delivering something unique in the franchise. Albeit, he didn't enjoy the ancestors' part but that's not related.

DumbGamerTag94
10-01-2014, 05:05 AM
I don't mean to sound like a cold hearted bastard. But it's just the reality of the situation.

I kind of like that from now on it seems the only justification we'll be getting for the historical stuff is either to research these people's significance in history on the behalf of Abstergo or the Assassins and we just play their simulations provided for us. Eventually leading up to an MD finale game.

It's so much simpler and removes all the convoluted garbage.

Hans684
10-01-2014, 05:08 AM
There always reasons to relive the memories, take it away and it's just a historical game in random times with two orginisations fighting over something that won't have a purpose.

DumbGamerTag94
10-01-2014, 05:13 AM
There always reasons to relive the memories, take it away and it's just a historical game in random times with two orginisations fighting over something that won't have a purpose.

Roberts purpose had no impact on MD. Nor Rodrigo Borgia or Cesare or Torres, not even Ahmet. Their purpose had nothing to do with MD and wouldn't be any different if MD didn't exist. So I don't see your point?

I explained all this in my earlier post and why MD doesn't have to bet here in any kind of story sense with current MD characters like Desmond Rebecca and co.

Xstantin
10-01-2014, 05:19 AM
Well Juno wanted them to keep looking for samples before her will can obtain or something like that, so I guess it all makes sense.

Hans684
10-01-2014, 05:23 AM
Roberts purpose had no impact on MD. Nor Rodrigo Borgia or Cesare or Torres, not even Ahmet. Their purpose had nothing to do with MD and wouldn't be any different if MD didn't exist. So I don't see your point?

I explained all this in my earlier post and why MD doesn't have to bet here in any kind of story sense with current MD characters like Desmond Rebecca and co.

If you though that those people where why they relived memories you've been seeing it wrong the whole time, antagonist =/= goal.

I've read your explanations.

DumbGamerTag94
10-01-2014, 05:41 AM
If you though that those people where why they relived memories you've been seeing it wrong the whole time, antagonist =/= goal.

I've read your explanations.

I didn't say the reason they went to those times was for the antagonists. I was countering your argument that there wouldn't be a purpose for the groups to be fighting in the historic parts.

Then what do you suggest the goal is??? To find the POEs for modern day purposes????? That's false because only AC1,2,Brotherhood, and 3 do that. ACR, AC4, ACFC, and ACL do not do that. Well possibly AC4 but they never did explain why they wanted the observatory for MD or what they did about it.

But that's still only around 1/2 of the games for that purpose.

And you still don't need the MD for that either as the historical characters have a purpose for the POEs and use them. You wouldn't need the MD for those. Unless your forgetting that AltaÔr, Ezio, Connor, Edward, Aveline, Ade, Shay, and Arno all encounter POEs on their own, longgggg before the MD. Therefore not requiring MD as a prerequisite since they had them first anyway.

Hans684
10-01-2014, 04:41 PM
I didn't say the reason they went to those times was for the antagonists. I was countering your argument that there wouldn't be a purpose for the groups to be fighting in the historic parts.

Then what do you suggest the goal is??? To find the POEs for modern day purposes????? That's false because only AC1,2,Brotherhood, and 3 do that. ACR, AC4, ACFC, and ACL do not do that. Well possibly AC4 but they never did explain why they wanted the observatory for MD or what they did about it.

But that's still only around 1/2 of the games for that purpose.

And you still don't need the MD for that either as the historical characters have a purpose for the POEs and use them. You wouldn't need the MD for those. Unless your forgetting that AltaÔr, Ezio, Connor, Edward, Aveline, Ade, Shay, and Arno all encounter POEs on their own, longgggg before the MD. Therefore not requiring MD as a prerequisite since they had them first anyway.

Didn't say there wouldn't be fighting, it's just that it won't impact anything. A game in random times with a never ending battle(that isn't allowed in MD:rolleyes:) with no purpose other than; "Cool a game during X time/country, I hope I can witness X event and kill X guy" There would still be a war but one without a bigger picture, so random protagonist killed that guy and fought for his order, then what? Did he find anything special? Yes he did, but what is the purpose of the discovery? Can it help anyone in the future? No sorry, the future the orders fight for isn't important. Let's just leave it here and ignore anything related to such things like space wizards. Let's ditch both stories while were at it.

You do know at least 90-99%(more or less) of the ancestors memories is filler right? The fans(and memories(most historical memories)) that dislike MD and that Ubi wants to please everyone by going what the majority instead of focusing on the story are the reasons MD is as it is. I love the historical part just as much as anybody else but they're a blockade we have to go through to progress the story. The stories is connected, story matters. Not what you love or hate, story before opinion unless you don't care. Each game has a different goal and it is explained either by Ubi or in the games.

As said it's filler, we relive(as in something that has happened) memories, do you think they go back for the lolz? AC1: The map their looking for, AC2: Minerva's warring, ACB: The AOE, ACR: Getting out of coma, AC3: the key, AC3L: Abstergo propaganda and the last memory mentioning Eve, ACIVBF: Since their making a pirate game every pirate memory is useful and the Crystal Skull and Blood Visls and the Observatory and for last ACFC: research purposes. That's is the goals that progress the story, the ancestors story is something of it's own that has only a little piece of information needed to progress. Other than that the rest is as said by Vidic, useless memories. The selling point is the historical part since that's were 90% of the game takes place but it doesn't change a thing, it's still a blockade.

So how is the map useful to AltaÔr? How is Minerva's warring useful to Ezio? How other than agains the Borgia is the AOE useful to Ezio(it's the same AOE used to enter the Grand Temple)? How is revelation useful(By that I mean Desmond getting out of coma, he needed to reach a Sync Nexus to get out of coma by finishing the memories of AltaÔr and Ezio)? How is the key useful to Connor? How is liberation useful? How is the Crystall Skull/Blood Vials and the Obsevatory useful to Edward(other than money)? How is Freedom Cry useful? None of the things would get a purpose, it would just be there for the sake of it, they would fight over things that won't even matter. No longer any big picture. It's not about the protagonists just finding them longgggg before MD, finding it without a reason for it to be there is a waste. They would be useless even if they found them then since it doesn't change anything, it would just be there. It's a circle story; MD connected to X past event connected to X First Civ. place/artifact connected to MD, repeat. Without MD both First Civ. place/articfact and X past event would be without purpose, without First Civ. both MD and X past event would be without purpose etc...

Layytez
10-01-2014, 05:08 PM
Didn't say there wouldn't be fighting, it's just that it won't impact anything. A game in random times with a never ending battle(that isn't allowed in MD:rolleyes:) with no purpose other than; "Cool a game during X time/country, I hope I can witness X event and kill X guy" There would still be a war but one without a bigger picture, so random protagonist killed that guy and fought for his order, then what? Did he find anything special? Yes he did, but what is the purpose of the discovery? Can it help anyone in the future? No sorry, the future the orders fight for isn't important. Let's just leave it here and ignore anything related to such things like space wizards. Let's ditch both stories while were at it.

You do know at least 90-99%(more or less) of the ancestors memories is filler right? The fans(and memories(most historical memories)) that dislike MD and that Ubi wants to please everyone by going what the majority instead of focusing on the story are the reasons MD is as it is. I love the historical part just as much as anybody else but they're a blockade we have to go through to progress the story. The stories is connected, story matters. Not what you love or hate, story before opinion unless you don't care. Each game has a different goal and it is explained either by Ubi or in the games.

As said it's filler, we relive(as in something that has happened) memories, do you think they go back for the lolz? AC1: The map their looking for, AC2: Minerva's warring, ACB: The AOE, ACR: Getting out of coma, AC3: the key, AC3L: Abstergo propaganda and the last memory mentioning Eve, ACIVBF: Since their making a pirate game every pirate memory is useful and the Crystal Skull and Blood Visls and the Observatory and for last ACFC: research purposes. That's is the goals that progress the story, the ancestors story is something of it's own that has only a little piece of information needed to progress. Other than that the rest is as said by Vidic, useless memories. The selling point is the historical part since that's were 90% of the game takes place but it doesn't change a thing, it's still a blockade.

So how is the map useful to AltaÔr? How is Minerva's warring useful to Ezio? How other than agains the Borgia is the AOE useful to Ezio(it's the same AOE used to enter the Grand Temple)? How is revelation useful(By that I mean Desmond getting out of coma, he needed to reach a Sync Nexus to get out of coma by finishing the memories of AltaÔr and Ezio)? How is the key useful to Connor? How is liberation useful? How is the Crystall Skull/Blood Vials and the Obsevatory useful to Edward(other than money)? How is Freedom Cry useful? None of the things would get a purpose, it would just be there for the sake of it, they would fight over things that won't even matter. No longer any big picture. It's not about the protagonists just finding them longgggg before MD, finding it without a reason for it to be there is a waste. They would be useless even if they found them then since it doesn't change anything, it would just be there. It's a circle story; MD connected to X past event connected to X First Civ. place/artifact connected to MD, repeat. Without MD both First Civ. place/articfact and X past event would be without purpose, without First Civ. both MD and X past event would be without purpose etc...
http://cdn.niketalk.com/d/d4/900x900px-LL-d4dd7b8c_350x700px-LL-85e5917e_snoop-dogg-gif.gif

Kakuzu745
10-01-2014, 07:16 PM
Didn't say there wouldn't be fighting, it's just that it won't impact anything. A game in random times with a never ending battle(that isn't allowed in MD:rolleyes:) with no purpose other than; "Cool a game during X time/country, I hope I can witness X event and kill X guy" There would still be a war but one without a bigger picture, so random protagonist killed that guy and fought for his order, then what? Did he find anything special? Yes he did, but what is the purpose of the discovery? Can it help anyone in the future? No sorry, the future the orders fight for isn't important. Let's just leave it here and ignore anything related to such things like space wizards. Let's ditch both stories while were at it.

You do know at least 90-99%(more or less) of the ancestors memories is filler right? The fans(and memories(most historical memories)) that dislike MD and that Ubi wants to please everyone by going what the majority instead of focusing on the story are the reasons MD is as it is. I love the historical part just as much as anybody else but they're a blockade we have to go through to progress the story. The stories is connected, story matters. Not what you love or hate, story before opinion unless you don't care. Each game has a different goal and it is explained either by Ubi or in the games.

As said it's filler, we relive(as in something that has happened) memories, do you think they go back for the lolz? AC1: The map their looking for, AC2: Minerva's warring, ACB: The AOE, ACR: Getting out of coma, AC3: the key, AC3L: Abstergo propaganda and the last memory mentioning Eve, ACIVBF: Since their making a pirate game every pirate memory is useful and the Crystal Skull and Blood Visls and the Observatory and for last ACFC: research purposes. That's is the goals that progress the story, the ancestors story is something of it's own that has only a little piece of information needed to progress. Other than that the rest is as said by Vidic, useless memories. The selling point is the historical part since that's were 90% of the game takes place but it doesn't change a thing, it's still a blockade.

So how is the map useful to AltaÔr? How is Minerva's warring useful to Ezio? How other than agains the Borgia is the AOE useful to Ezio(it's the same AOE used to enter the Grand Temple)? How is revelation useful(By that I mean Desmond getting out of coma, he needed to reach a Sync Nexus to get out of coma by finishing the memories of AltaÔr and Ezio)? How is the key useful to Connor? How is liberation useful? How is the Crystall Skull/Blood Vials and the Obsevatory useful to Edward(other than money)? How is Freedom Cry useful? None of the things would get a purpose, it would just be there for the sake of it, they would fight over things that won't even matter. No longer any big picture. It's not about the protagonists just finding them longgggg before MD, finding it without a reason for it to be there is a waste. They would be useless even if they found them then since it doesn't change anything, it would just be there. It's a circle story; MD connected to X past event connected to X First Civ. place/artifact connected to MD, repeat. Without MD both First Civ. place/articfact and X past event would be without purpose, without First Civ. both MD and X past event would be without purpose etc...

MD is basically a series of bridges that interconnects everything. However, I think it is wrong to say one is more important than the other (in terms of lore) because without the MD in the lore AC would lose some of it's appeal, and without the historical part the lore would just be a generic mess. The important thing to do (as we did in previous post) is to actually analyze how you can fully explore the potential of MD.

So yeah, all in all, I agree with your post. Despite the fact that I do not care for some elements of MD and I would prefer them to be removed, by now MD as a whole is a key element of the lore.

Hans684
10-01-2014, 07:28 PM
MD is basically a series of bridges that interconnects everything. However, I think it is wrong to say one is more important than the other (in terms of lore) because without the MD in the lore AC would lose some of it's appeal, and without the historical part the lore would just be a generic mess. The important thing to do (as we did in previous post) is to actually analyze how you can fully explore the potential of MD.

So yeah, all in all, I agree with your post. Despite the fact that I do not care for some elements of MD and I would prefer them to be removed, by now MD as a whole is a key element of the lore.

Indeed, actually that can be both wrong and right. My post is from an in universe perspective, it's right then to say something can be useless. Vidic did it since every other memory didn't do a thing, it only slowed their progress. So from his perspective it's a blockade, Lore > anything else. Other perspectives is fine and I do respect them but I stay with the lore.

Thanks. Removing it wont let us fully explore MD's potential, you'd just be taking away the problem and create a bigger mess.

Sushiglutton
10-01-2014, 07:38 PM
There always reasons to relive the memories, take it away and it's just a historical game in random times with two orginisations fighting over something that won't have a purpose.

Objection!

"Just a historical game in random times ", is nothing but negative rhetoric to describe something that can be infinitely awesome. There's nothing "just" about recreating a bursting 18th century Paris with all its famous locations and characters.

The times would not be more random if there was no MD. No matter what, Ubi chose the city they think will make for the greatest experience. Wether they then go ahead and invent a MD explanation or not is completely irrelevant.

The things Arno fought for will have just as much meaning without MD. He didn't know what would happen a couple of hundred years later. He was willing to risk his life given the information he had at the time. No extra motivation is needed!

Hans684
10-01-2014, 08:04 PM
Objection!

Why me when so many say the same?


"Just a historical game in random times ", is nothing but negative rhetoric to describe something that can be infinitely awesome. There's nothing "just" about recreating a bursting 18th century Paris with all its famous locations and characters.

I know, I know, in fact. The entire fanbase know!


The times would not be more random if there was no MD. No matter what, Ubi chose the city they think will make for the greatest experience. Wether they then go ahead and invent a MD explanation or not is completely irrelevant.

Random for us, yes. For Ubisoft, not entirely. Things like Juno's temple in Rome isn't random choosing when a story is planned more or less.


The things Arno fought for will have just as much meaning without MD. He didn't know what would happen a couple of hundred years later. He was willing to risk his life given the information he had at the time. No extra motivation is needed!

Same meaning but no purpose, the information won't be useful since then there won't be no MD. There would be no reason go give the information he risked his life for, it would just be there without use. Obviously he don't know. Like every other special person we have played, depends on the player! You don't seem to care much about MD(judging by writing), so obvious your one if the people that don't need more "motivation". And it's not motivation I'm talking about when I say it needs a purpose, it's story, lore. You know, the big picture no one care about. The connected story that would be damaged with one gone. Motivation has nothing to do with it.

Sushiglutton
10-01-2014, 08:09 PM
Why me when so many say the same?

You were supposed to reply "Overruled!" :(.

I'm not upset or angry with you at all!



Same meaning but no purpose, the information won't be useful since then there won't be no MD. There would be no reason go give the information he risked his life for, it would just be there without use. Obviously he don't know. Like every other special person we have played, depends on the player! You don't seem to care much about MD(judging by writing), so obvious your one if the people that don't need more "motivation". And it's not motivation I'm talking about when I say it needs a purpose, it's story, lore. You know, the big picture no one care about. The connected story that would be damaged with one gone. Motivation has nothing to do with it.

I see what you mean. But I think the big picture could still be there even without MD. The assassins could still work accross time to solve major challenges for humanity. I would like more connections between the historical assassins instead. I thought that was so cool in Revelations!

Hans684
10-01-2014, 08:22 PM
You were supposed to reply "Overruled!" :(.

I used the line of the first assassination target from AC1 and Malik in the reply bellow that. How could you miss that? Novice.


I'm not upset or angry with you at all!

And you say that now! I'm preparing an army and you walk way, nonsense!


I see what you mean. But I think the big picture could still be there even without MD. The assassins could still work accross time to solve major challenges for humanity. I would like more connections between the historical assassins instead. I thought that was so cool in Revelations!

Not entirely, MD is needed for there to be a bigger picture. As said before, it would loose it's purpose. We relive memories, it has to be a purpose. Without a purpose it's useless, if it's useless it's filler. No one likes cash cows, without MD AC would have a clear signal to cash even more...without limitation. Like 3 games a year, fun right? Maybe 4 if they want to be ambitious and the fanbase acts as sheeps. Connections bettwen Assassins wouldn't mean much if there wasn't a purpose, so a few Assassins are connected, did it progress done thing while having a purpose? No. It worked for Revelations since Revelations had a purpose. A reason to relive their memories, AC without purpose is COD.

Kakuzu745
10-01-2014, 08:53 PM
I see what you mean. But I think the big picture could still be there even without MD. The assassins could still work accross time to solve major challenges for humanity. I would like more connections between the historical assassins instead. I thought that was so cool in Revelations!

Gameplay wise it would surely work, however, I think it is too late to remove MD from lore.

Agree about interconnecting the assassins more between them without recurring to the "MD guy"...we have a lot of nice opportunities to explore with that!