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View Full Version : How did the gunsights work IRL?



F16_Filur
07-28-2004, 02:04 PM
I´m thinking mostly of these german (reflector?) sights in the main fighter aircrafts. In the game they look mostly just like a piece of glass with some see-through circles and crosshairs. But, since they appear to be quite advanced optical designs, what did they really do more than being a piece of glass?

F16_Filur
07-28-2004, 02:04 PM
I´m thinking mostly of these german (reflector?) sights in the main fighter aircrafts. In the game they look mostly just like a piece of glass with some see-through circles and crosshairs. But, since they appear to be quite advanced optical designs, what did they really do more than being a piece of glass?

BaldieJr
07-28-2004, 02:06 PM
The work a lot like modern day pojectors. The ring is project onto the glass from below.

GH_Klingstroem
07-28-2004, 02:09 PM
good question!! but whats the point of having a reflector from below when you can just paint a yellow cross on the glass or something... see the point?!

Back_Loop
07-28-2004, 02:21 PM
You can adjust the reflection easily to different ranges. It´s hard to start painting a new dot to your windshield in the middle of combat ;-)

VOL_Hans
07-28-2004, 02:25 PM
~S~ Let me try to explain it as best I can.

Painting a simple cross on the wind screen blocks out your vision. Fly an IL-2 Type 3 to see what that sight looks like.

For a reflector sight, you can actually see through the sight and see what is underneath. The reflector sight also helps to eliminate some of the focusting issues with a solid sight.

With solid sights, it's hard to keep both the sight and target in focus at the same time, and if you shift your POV, the sight dosen't work at all. With a reflector sight, moveing around a bit in the cockpit dosen't ruin your aim.

Another advantage to reflector sights is that they can be adjusted to target size. The real REVI sights for example could change the size of the circle to match the wingspan of a target at different distances. That allows the sights to be adjusted to match convergance, and so that you can use it to judge the range on your targets.

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

ZG77_Lignite
07-28-2004, 04:46 PM
I believe the most important aspect not mentioned yet is that 'reflector' type sights are focused to infinity (meaning they 'appear' to be far out in front of the aircraft). This means that regardless of your head position (left, right, forward, backward, up, down) the 'sight' is still relativily the same size and pointing at relatively the same spot in space (probably where your guns are pointed). With an 'iron sight' you must keep your head in a much more fixed position to avoid ill affects to range finding and lead (deflection).

I simple test, hold your thumb up in front of you as an aiming device, now move your head about; surely you can see how difficult this would make aiming. Now use something that is far away for the 'sight' and aim at something beyond that (stand some distance away from a window, and use a spot on the window as the 'sight'); now regardless of how far your head moves the 'sight' does not get very far away from the target.

Needless to say on a 2d computer screen this effect is minimized, but in 3d things start getting complicated. Can't wait for BoB, hopefully we'll get some 'real' head bobbing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VOL_Hans
07-28-2004, 05:00 PM
Correct, the sight positions appears to origionate from infinity, and appears to be "painted on" the target. Once the two are overlapped in the correct position, and at the right range for convergeing wing guns...

Pull lead and Feur Frei! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

BfHeFwMe
07-28-2004, 05:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Let's bring it down to earth a bit... parallax is a
phenomenon which was discovered on earth a long time
before anyone thought to apply it to the heavenly
bodies. But let's call it "range finding;" it's one
of the basic tenets of geometry. Take two points
you can reach easily, say two spots on a beach 100
meters apart. Since you know the distance between
the two points, if you measure the angle between the
two points and a distant object, say a ship sailing
by, you can use principles of Euclidean geometry
to figure out how far away the ship is from shore. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You actually have four points, reticle to glass, and eye to glass. It's four known distances the brain gets used to, far easier to do range estimation with more info. Notice how when you move the forward to backward cockpit side shift, the size of the glass changes, but the reticle size stays constant. The distance from reticle to glass never changed, projection stays the same. More accurate than a fixed sight for rangeing use and parallax control.

F16_Filur
07-28-2004, 10:13 PM
Thanks alot for the replys! Would be nice to simulate the gunsights (except the K14) a bit more. Some followups:

* is the german fighters "crosses" akin to how it looked IRL?

* has germany always been the leading nation in such optical instruments?

* I wouldnt mind the option to have custom gunsights (or crosses) like you can in Warbirds and Aces High.

F19_Ob
07-29-2004, 12:51 AM
I downloaded an AVI movie displaying a Revi sight.....think it was from this board??(cant remember)( I'll post a link if I find it again)....wich showed how the projected sight moves when u move the head left and right from it...just like in FB and how it a projected sigh looks like in shift+F1 view and headshake? enabled.
Google search for ya:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&output=search&q=revi%2Bgunsight&btnG=Search

A lot of research must have done on the sights in FB..... THNX OLEG and TEAM!

We seldom give credit to these guys for the god stuff http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif