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Assassin_M
09-19-2014, 04:17 PM
-Revolutionary setting
-New Protagonist
-Mixed Race protagonist
-Overhaul to core pillars (Combat, stealth and navigation)
-Tunnel Network
-Templar Novel tie in
-Stories of Paris and Investigations (Frontiersman missions)
-Random events (Liberation missions)
-Claim as best game to enter series from
-Templar relative

Coincidence? what else?

m4r-k7
09-19-2014, 04:18 PM
Its not really a coincidence. AC 3 was built to revolutionise the franchise (no pun intended). Arguably it did and it didn't but lets see whether Unity (which is also being built for this reason) manages to do it

Assassin_M
09-19-2014, 04:25 PM
Its not really a coincidence. AC 3 was built to revolutionise the franchise (no pun intended). Arguably it did and it didn't but lets see whether Unity (which is also being built for this reason) manages to do it
The similarities have nothing to do with revolutionizing, though.

Sushiglutton
09-19-2014, 04:27 PM
I actually made a similar thread a while back: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/903559-Anyone-else-getting-2012-d%C3%A9j%C3%A0-vu?highlight=deja :p. But I focused more on the messaging and so you mention several things I didn't. Then I went ahead and made a new thread with my arguments for why I'm still optimistic: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/906489-Why-this-won-t-be-like-2012-Forums

Adding to that I think a love story as part of the main narrative will give the whole thing a different flavour.

Kaschra
09-19-2014, 04:28 PM
Mixed race protagonist? What did I miss? :confused:

Assassin_M
09-19-2014, 04:31 PM
I actually made a similar thread a while back: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/903559-Anyone-else-getting-2012-déjā-vu?highlight=deja :p. But I focused more on the messaging and so you mention several things I didn't. Then I went ahead and made a new thread with my arguments for why I'm still optimistic: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/906489-Why-this-won-t-be-like-2012-Forums

Adding to that I think a love story as part of the main narrative will give the whole thing a different flavour.
Well, I'm kind of LESS negative about 2012 in here than you are in your thread:p but yeah, I should have used the search function (that sucks)


Mixed race protagonist? What did I miss? :confused:
Arno is half Austrian.

Kaschra
09-19-2014, 04:36 PM
Arno is half Austrian.

But Austrian isn't a different race, Mo xD

Assassin_M
09-19-2014, 04:40 PM
But Austrian isn't a different race, Mo xD
I know, I was actually going to write "half breed" but figured that's impolite so i searched google for a politer term and got mixed race:p

ze_topazio
09-19-2014, 04:51 PM
Dual citizenship, double nationality, mixed ancestry, half nationality


All those similarities with AC3, does that mean Unity is going to be one of the worst entries in the franchise too?

JustPlainQuirky
09-19-2014, 04:52 PM
Are you trying to say Unity isn't going to be great or that AC3 is just as good as ACU?

Or trying to point out some hypocrisy?

Assassin_M
09-19-2014, 04:55 PM
Are you trying to say Unity isn't going to be great or that AC3 is just as good as ACU?

Or trying to point out some hypocrisy?

Dual citizenship, double nationality, mixed ancestry, half nationality


All those similarities with AC3, does that mean Unity is going to be one of the worst entries in the franchise too?
Lol no, I'm just saying that it has a lot of similarities to AC III. guys, you're forgetting that I don't consider AC III a failure.

JustPlainQuirky
09-19-2014, 04:56 PM
I don't understand then what the point you're trying to make.

Assassin_M
09-19-2014, 05:03 PM
I don't understand then what the point you're trying to make.
That Ubi is kind of trying to make the game they wanted to make with AC III.

Fatal-Feit
09-19-2014, 05:03 PM
Major improvements to the Brotherhood system.

Kakuzu745
09-19-2014, 05:03 PM
I think he just wants to mention it hehe.

JustPlainQuirky
09-19-2014, 05:04 PM
That Ubi is kind of trying to make the game they wanted to make with AC III.

Ehhhh.... I feel that could be argued with a lot of AC games.

But alright. That's fine.

ze_topazio
09-19-2014, 05:14 PM
Lol no, I'm just saying that it has a lot of similarities to AC III. guys, you're forgetting that I don't consider AC III a failure.

Yeah I know, I was just messing with you.

RinoTheBouncer
09-19-2014, 05:34 PM
I guess with the minor exception that ACIII had good focus on the story, interesting modern day and focused on the whole inter-connected story rather than some self-contained one with much more focus on co-op than proper story-telling.

pacmanate
09-19-2014, 05:51 PM
I don't get this thread... the word "so" keeps running through my mind.

HiddenKiller612
09-19-2014, 05:57 PM
I don't get this thread... the word "so" keeps running through my mind.
http://www.strongmindbraveheart.com/wp-content/uploads/a8c9dc91bf62ea21d206ecddec4b2acd.500x282x9.gif

Megas_Doux
09-19-2014, 06:43 PM
A good reminder of why the hype levels should not escalate.

Kakuzu745
09-19-2014, 07:14 PM
Which is why I am just "cool" with Unity :P

SixKeys
09-19-2014, 08:24 PM
I guess with the minor exception that ACIII had good focus on the story, interesting modern day and focused on the whole inter-connected story rather than some self-contained one with much more focus on co-op than proper story-telling.

Lol, "good focus on the story". Good one.

Kakuzu745
09-19-2014, 08:40 PM
Lol, "good focus on the story". Good one.

I think he meant history hehe.

EmbodyingSeven5
09-19-2014, 09:08 PM
I guess with the minor exception that ACIII had good focus on the story, interesting modern day and focused on the whole inter-connected story rather than some self-contained one with much more focus on co-op than proper story-telling.

didn't like AC 3S modern day

Namikaze_17
09-19-2014, 09:21 PM
I guess with the minor exception that ACIII had good focus on the story, interesting modern day and focused on the whole inter-connected story rather than some self-contained one with much more focus on co-op than proper story-telling.

^ This...

And I don't know if it's safe to say this but...



I don't consider AC3 a failure...

Sure, it had it's flaws and disappointments, but that's all they really were thanks to Ubi's false advertising. I personally don't tend to set my expectations too high or too low for Unity so I'll just say that I'm Moderate.

But I agree with M, it's similarities with AC3 are convenient like how Arno has some distinct similarities to Connor in a way.


didn't like AC 3S modern day

Well it's not like it's ever been good anyway...

Megas_Doux
09-19-2014, 09:32 PM
I just hope that ACU actually delivers most of the footage of the demos shows..The good thing is that unlike AC III for I was UBER hyping, I am taking everything with a grain of salt.

Fatal-Feit
09-19-2014, 10:06 PM
Well it's not like it's ever been good anyway...

Well, AC:B's modern day wasn't half-bad. After replaying Brotherhood, it became my favorite of the Desmond Saga in the Ezio Trilogy.

Kakuzu745
09-19-2014, 10:08 PM
I don't consider AC3 a failure...

Sure, it had it's flaws and disappointments, but that's all they really were thanks to Ubi's false advertising. I personally don't tend to set my expectations too high or too low for Unity so I'll just say that I'm Moderate.

Ya I would not use the word failure but considering the expectations that many of us had, we were left hanging by Ubi :S

Namikaze_17
09-19-2014, 10:28 PM
Well, AC:B's modern day wasn't half-bad. After replaying Brotherhood, it became my favorite of the Desmond Saga in the Ezio Trilogy.

Yeah, it was alright...but still meh.

What truly made that MD was Desmond stabbing Lucy.


Ya I would not use the word failure but considering the expectations that many of us had, we were left hanging by Ubi :S

Well I came into AC3 with none of that because it was my first game. ^.^

But after hearing/ seeing these "Promises" by Ubi, I would've been disappointed too I guess.

RinoTheBouncer
09-20-2014, 02:37 AM
I just hope that ACU actually delivers most of the footage of the demos shows..The good thing is that unlike AC III for I was UBER hyping, I am taking everything with a grain of salt.

ACIII was not a failure. As far as I know, the game sold more than 10 million copies. It did have SOME mixed reviews but it was in no way a failure. Connor is a wonderful character. Yes, my No.1 is Ezio, but Connor was totally amazing. He was another protagonist who had a different personality and still as good as the others. The modern day missions were really fun and I don’t see how anyone could possibly hated. The only problems were shoehorning too many historical events and the TERRIBLY DIRECTED AND SHORT ending. That’s the only downside for me. Otherwise, the game is a lot more remarkable than ACIV and even ACU. Because after ACIII, all the mystery and excitement died. Now we’re just seeing standalone stories that could be good or bad, rather than the style of the classics which felt more like a T.V. series and justified the annualization of the franchise.

Megas_Doux
09-20-2014, 03:06 AM
ACIII was not a failure. As far as I know, the game sold more than 10 million copies. It did have SOME mixed reviews but it was in no way a failure. Connor is a wonderful character. Yes, my No.1 is Ezio, but Connor was totally amazing. He was another protagonist who had a different personality and still as good as the others. The modern day missions were really fun and I don’t see how anyone could possibly hated. The only problems were shoehorning too many historical events and the TERRIBLY DIRECTED AND SHORT ending. That’s the only downside for me. Otherwise, the game is a lot more remarkable than ACIV and even ACU. Because after ACIII, all the mystery and excitement died. Now we’re just seeing standalone stories that could be good or bad, rather than the style of the classics which felt more like a T.V. series and justified the annualization of the franchise.

AC III just did not live up to the HUGE hype it created through the demos, interviews, articles and the onmipresent advertisement , more than any other to date, so hear me out.

1 Letīs begin with the modern part:, I dont hate the how it ended, but I dislike the journey to it. The mission in which Desmond goes to abstergo is particularly cringeworthy., I will only note that The once great and fearsome Daniel Cross was reduced to a cannon fodder "agent" not very different from the rest of those dumb abstergo guards with the exception he was carrying a gun. You know, he who in the comics was said to be ultimate templar agent, the one that brought the assassin order to its knees. Then we have the Deus ex machina of Minerva appearing out of nowhere and causing the sudden climax.

2 The mission design has been the worst so far, there are only TWO open assasinations, for the rest we are FORCED to follow in pretty linear path or even worse just ,trigger a cutscene through a button. Then the story although good and presented through interesting grey morals, suffers from terrible historical shoehorning just because: throwing boxes to the sea and taxidriving Paul revere being the worst offenders.

3 The BROKEN promises in the likes of the random events, the Great Fire of New York, Frozen lakes, lively camps, random battles of "decent size " through the Frontier and background music, just to name a few.

I am not saying everything was bad in AC III, but all the previous stuff is why I could NEVER, EVER feel hyped for an AC again. I rather take everything with a grain of salt and then be positively susprised than having to experience the opposite. Which is probably why up to this point AC IV ended up being my favorite game in the franchise, at least for its gameplay and sandbox values.

RinoTheBouncer
09-20-2014, 03:22 AM
AC III just did not live up to the HUGE hype it created through the demos, interviews, articles and the onmipresent advertisement , more than any other to date, so hear me out.

1 Letīs begin with the modern part:, I dont hate the how it ended, but I dislike the journey to it. The mission in which Desmond goes to abstergo is particularly cringeworthy., I will only note that The once great and fearsome Daniel Cross was reduced to a cannon fodder "agent" not very different from the rest of those dumb abstergo guards with the exception he was carrying a gun. You know, he who in the comics was said to be ultimate templar agent, the one that brought the assassin order to its knees. Then we have the Deus ex machina of Minerva appearing out of nowhere and causing the sudden climax.

2 The mission design has been the worst so far, there are only TWO open assasinations, for the rest we just trigger a cutscene through a button. Then the story although good and presented through interesting grey morals, suffers from terrible historical shoehorning just because: throwing boxes to the sea and taxidriving Paul revere being the worst offenders.

3 The BROKEN promises in the likes of the random events, the Great Fire of New York, Frozen lakes, lively camps, random battles of "decent size " through the Frontier and background music, just to name a few.

I am not saying everything was bad in AC III, but all the previous stuff is why I could NEVER, EVER feel hyped for an AC again. I rather take everything with a grain of salt and then be positively susprised than having to experience the opposite. Which is probably why up to this point AC IV ended up being my favorite game in the franchise, at least for its gameplay and sandbox values.

I, like you, stopped feeling hyped since ACIII but for a different reason which is the ending. While I don’t always mind the death of a protagonist, I believe that they should’ve directed the ending well. It needed at least 7 more minutes and a ton of powerful scenes, emotional phrases and brave acts, not to mention special effects that suit the idea of saving the world and after ACIII came ACIV that basically half-a**ed the modern day, so there goes another reason not to feel hyped anymore.

I agree about Daniel Cross. In fact, I was just discussing this in the future of AC games thread. I didn’t read the comics before ACIII so to me, he felt nothing more than the leader of the Abstergo agents following me and after reading the comics, his death, like the ending, felt terribly directed and badly planned.

I didn’t watch any interviews then, only the official trailers, so I didn’t know about all these promises, that’s why I didn’t feel betrayed or disappointed, but now that you’re mentioning those, I do admit that the game could’ve been much better. However, I’d take ACIII over ACIV, AC:L and even AC:U and AC:Ro, cause at least with ACIII, the modern day and first civ. parts, which are my favorites, still existed even if they were flawed. To me, they were good, but had flaws, but that’s better than non-existent, especially when they’re the reason you love the games since ACI.

Assassin_M
09-20-2014, 06:32 AM
2 The mission design has been the worst so far, there are only TWO open assasinations,
is there, though? Silas' Assassination is pretty open and well designed, Haytham's Assassination is pretty open and well designed (reaching the tower in the fort),

LoyalACFan
09-20-2014, 09:10 AM
is there, though? Silas' Assassination is pretty open and well designed, Haytham's Assassination is pretty open and well designed (reaching the tower in the fort),

???

Silas' assassination was "open" in the sense that you COULD theoretically circumvent the battle and approach from behind, but it was still (literally) on rails until you reached the fort. The Fort George mission was alright, I guess, but it wasn't exactly an "open-ended assassination" considering Haytham just popped up out of nowhere and forced you to fight him.

Let it be said, though, I actually don't have an issue with the final assassination being relatively linear, it's always been that way (Al Mualim, Rodrigo, Cesare, Torres, though I have nothing kind to say about Ahmet's death) and I think it helps with the storytelling. Crappy boss fight mechanics aside, I think Haytham's death was really well-done. I wouldn't tout it as an open-ended mission though.

zkorejo
09-21-2014, 10:11 AM
If anything this thread has turned my excitement for this game to cautious :/

Seriously... if this ends up like ACIII. After everything Ubi has said will be in the game, main things like stealth, open-ended mission design, harder combat etc. if it is not in.. then there is no hope for the future of this franchise.

Please dont disappoint. This is the only game I want to be super excited for this year.

Reptilis91
09-21-2014, 11:33 AM
ac iii just did not live up to the huge hype it created through the demos, interviews, articles and the onmipresent advertisement , more than any other to date, so hear me out.

1 letīs begin with the modern part:, i dont hate the how it ended, but i dislike the journey to it. The mission in which desmond goes to abstergo is particularly cringeworthy., i will only note that the once great and fearsome daniel cross was reduced to a cannon fodder "agent" not very different from the rest of those dumb abstergo guards with the exception he was carrying a gun. You know, he who in the comics was said to be ultimate templar agent, the one that brought the assassin order to its knees. Then we have the deus ex machina of minerva appearing out of nowhere and causing the sudden climax.

2 the mission design has been the worst so far, there are only two open assasinations, for the rest we are forced to follow in pretty linear path or even worse just ,trigger a cutscene through a button. Then the story although good and presented through interesting grey morals, suffers from terrible historical shoehorning just because: Throwing boxes to the sea and taxidriving paul revere being the worst offenders.

3 the broken promises in the likes of the random events, the great fire of new york, frozen lakes, lively camps, random battles of "decent size " through the frontier and background music, just to name a few.

I am not saying everything was bad in ac iii, but all the previous stuff is why i could never, ever feel hyped for an ac again. I rather take everything with a grain of salt and then be positively susprised than having to experience the opposite. Which is probably why up to this point ac iv ended up being my favorite game in the franchise, at least for its gameplay and sandbox values.

This.

Landruner
09-21-2014, 03:00 PM
All I can say is I believe that ACU will certainly be pleased by the game and its mechanics and some of us there, and piss off a lot of the rest of us.

Consensus general being that people compare the two games mostly because of the two revolution settings, however; the game focus more in the post revolution with the Directory period.

AC3 was not that a bad game, it is just that most of its potential had been superficially exploited and its realization was disastrous as well. In this I refer to as much Connor, the story, the game-play and all the lore and flora of that game was just of festival of good ideas just superficially exploited and the realization of the game had been precipitated for different reasons.

For ACU apparently what was could not been deeply exploited had been made-up with Co-op missions and Co-op fare, and despite the 11 missions officially announced, and it will be more Co-op than believed.

DumbGamerTag94
09-21-2014, 04:26 PM
All I can say is I believe that ACU will certainly be pleased by the game and its mechanics and some of us there, and piss off a lot of the rest of us.

Consensus general being that people compare the two games mostly because of the two revolution settings, however; the game focus more in the post revolution with the Directory period.

AC3 was not that a bad game, it is just that most of its potential had been superficially exploited and its realization was disastrous as well. In this I refer to as much Connor, the story, the game-play and all the lore and flora of that game was just of festival of good ideas just superficially exploited and the realization of the game had been precipitated for different reasons.

For ACU apparently what was could not been deeply exploited had been made-up with Co-op missions and Co-op fare, and despite the 11 missions officially announced, and it will be more Co-op than believed.

It actually will not focus on the directorate period(in fact I'm convinced that segment of the revolution will get the least press.

Initial revolt(1789)>Constitutional Monarchy/National Assembly(1789-1792)>The National Convention/First Republic(featured the most fameous parts of the revolution including the execution of the King and the Reign of Terror)(1792-1795)>Directorate(1795-1799)>Consulate(1799-1804)>First Empire(1804-1815)

All of these events combine to be what's referred to as the "French Revolution". Most all of them were incredibly violent.
ACU is supposed to cover 1789-1799. So from the revolt up to when Napoleon takes power as first Console. We most likely won't see him crowned Emperor according to that time frame. But we will see him take power.
The Directorate is only 4 of those 10 years covered in game. And the other 6 are far bloodier and most likely will be the center of the game. Mainly focusing on the National Convention period and the Reign of Terror. I expect time skips will be happening during the more dull parts of the directorate period.

TheArcaneEagle
09-21-2014, 08:04 PM
I'm still pumped for Unity regardless.

Assassin_M
09-21-2014, 10:45 PM
???
Silas' assassination was "open" in the sense that you COULD theoretically circumvent the battle and approach from behind, but it was still (literally) on rails until you reached the fort. The Fort George mission was alright, I guess, but it wasn't exactly an "open-ended assassination" considering Haytham just popped up out of nowhere and forced you to fight him.
I WAS talking about the fort. Rails aside, the fort itself is pretty open, no such thing as open ended. Just open. You had a field, an optional general and 5 officers that you need to take out stealthily and then like you said, you can go from behind the fort to assassinate Silas or you can engage him in combat. You're not forced to take out the guards in a specific way nor kill Silas in a specific way.

well, imagine Haytham being the tower, instead of meeting him inside the fort and having that fight. You can reach that tower however you like and you can either kill everyone rambo style or do it stealthily and there you go.

ze_topazio
09-22-2014, 12:00 AM
I bet Haytham in reality threw himself with a cannon in to the fort, the animus just couldn't render just awesomeness.

Assassin_M
09-22-2014, 12:03 AM
I bet Haytham in reality threw himself with a cannon in to the fort, the animus just couldn't render just awesomeness.
The game was so linear it couldn't let you make Haytham aim, it had to start the mission aiming for you...

roostersrule2
09-22-2014, 12:42 AM
They also have the same accents.

Landruner
09-22-2014, 02:29 AM
It actually will not focus on the directorate period(in fact I'm convinced that segment of the revolution will get the least press.

Initial revolt(1789)>Constitutional Monarchy/National Assembly(1789-1792)>The National Convention/First Republic(featured the most fameous parts of the revolution including the execution of the King and the Reign of Terror)(1792-1795)>Directorate(1795-1799)>Consulate(1799-1804)>First Empire(1804-1815)

All of these events combine to be what's referred to as the "French Revolution". Most all of them were incredibly violent.
ACU is supposed to cover 1789-1799. So from the revolt up to when Napoleon takes power as first Console. We most likely won't see him crowned Emperor according to that time frame. But we will see him take power.
The Directorate is only 4 of those 10 years covered in game. And the other 6 are far bloodier and most likely will be the center of the game. Mainly focusing on the National Convention period and the Reign of Terror. I expect time skips will be happening during the more dull parts of the directorate period.

Thank you for your help, but I am French and when I was younger, I made a documentary (years ago) about that period for Channels FR3 and Arte, but I still thank you....

I honestly do not understand why you try to lay down the all historical facts that you mention above because it was not even to what I was not even directly referring to that in my previous post, I was not even referring to the history, but instead I referred to the lack of opportunity at exploiting some parts of history that AC3 suffered and that obviously ACU will probably suffer because of the Co-ops and some other clumsy designing decisions and with the lack of time that is that series plague,

I,btw. mentioned that the game was more focused on the post French first revolution of 1759, and the directory period (Reign of terror) that followed, and it is to my perspective the most interesting and intriguing shot they could have been in covering that period of chaos for that first French Revolution (and a better shot in perhaps including the opportunist Napoleon Bonaparte that seized that opportunity to "make some order" in the middle of that Chaos - Same think that did Jules Cesar did thousand of years before him). which could be interesting too if exploited correctly.

Like you said we will probably won't see the raise of Napoleon to be point or turning into a dictator and precursor of the German 3rd Reich. If the main game stop in 1799 well we won't see the own Napoleon Crowning himself Emperor in1801, however: if they are Clever enough to the original Termplar Creed, we will probably see him him as one of the antagonist and perhaps sometime for the coming up DLCs or a new AC opus?

Assassin_M
09-22-2014, 02:38 AM
They also have the same accents.
A very important similarity.

DumbGamerTag94
09-22-2014, 03:09 AM
Thank you for your help, but I am French and when I was younger, I made a documentary (years ago) about that period for Channels FR3 and Arte, but I still thank you....

I honestly do not understand why you try to lay down the all historical facts that you mention above because it was not even to what I was not even directly referring to that in my previous post, I was not even referring to the history, but instead I referred to the lack of opportunity at exploiting some parts of history that AC3 suffered and that obviously ACU will probably suffer because of the Co-ops and some other clumsy designing decisions and with the lack of time that is that series plague,

I,btw. mentioned that the game was more focused on the post French first revolution of 1759, and the directory period (Reign of terror) that followed, and it is to my perspective the most interesting and intriguing shot they could have been in covering that period of chaos for that first French Revolution (and a better shot in perhaps including the opportunist Napoleon Bonaparte that seized that opportunity to "make some order" in the middle of that Chaos - Same think that did Jules Cesar did thousand of years before him). which could be interesting too if exploited correctly.

Like you said we will probably won't see the raise of Napoleon to be point or turning into a dictator and precursor of the German 3rd Reich. If the main game stop in 1799 well we won't see the own Napoleon Crowning himself Emperor in1801, however: if they are Clever enough to the original Termplar Creed, we will probably see him him as one of the antagonist and perhaps sometime for the coming up DLCs or a new AC opus?

Sorry was not aware you were French. Just trying to clear some things up for those who don't know. And those who are not French. I'm American but a devout student of world history.

But I agree there is just SO much stuff in the French Revolution that I doubt ACU will be able to do it true justice.

Like for instance the subtle difference between the terms Directorate and National Convention/Reign of Terror.

The former being the more conservative/moderate sloppy joint dictatorship from 1795 to 1799
The latter being the legislative body dominated by extremist leftists under Robespierre(1792-1795) culminating in the reign of terror(1794).

It's just sooooo much history with very subtle differences and with so many different parties/factions and come and go governments that they will hardly do any of it true justice and clearly distinguish one from the other.

But I agree I think we will see Napoleon seize the opportunity to become first console after the coup in 1799. But probably not the beginning of the empire 1804.

I bet that that period is saved for a future AC game in the works.

shobhit7777777
09-22-2014, 08:20 AM
- Actual designers working on the games

Oh wait

LoyalACFan
09-22-2014, 09:36 AM
I WAS talking about the fort. Rails aside, the fort itself is pretty open, no such thing as open ended. Just open. You had a field, an optional general and 5 officers that you need to take out stealthily and then like you said, you can go from behind the fort to assassinate Silas or you can engage him in combat. You're not forced to take out the guards in a specific way nor kill Silas in a specific way.

well, imagine Haytham being the tower, instead of meeting him inside the fort and having that fight. You can reach that tower however you like and you can either kill everyone rambo style or do it stealthily and there you go.

Oh, my dear sweet M, ever the AC3 apologist :p

That's a very liberal use of the word "open" in my opinion, but I really don't want to get into another ten-page AC3 mission design argument so I'll just agree to disagree.

Sesheenku
09-22-2014, 06:57 PM
I hope it's just mere coincidence, I definitely don't want another AC3.