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Sofiyah
09-12-2004, 03:19 PM
hi

can i have some advice on deflection shooting. I am getting the bead on the zeros now but the bf109g6s are a pain too shoot down with their twisting ways, plus they can take some punishment.

I am in a spit ixe, i have to get really close or on a good angle of deflection to make sure they go down, but most of the time i just cause them to loose petrol or oil. Any advice on gunnery would be apprieciated.

best wishes

Sofiyah
09-12-2004, 03:19 PM
hi

can i have some advice on deflection shooting. I am getting the bead on the zeros now but the bf109g6s are a pain too shoot down with their twisting ways, plus they can take some punishment.

I am in a spit ixe, i have to get really close or on a good angle of deflection to make sure they go down, but most of the time i just cause them to loose petrol or oil. Any advice on gunnery would be apprieciated.

best wishes

PBNA-Boosher
09-12-2004, 03:36 PM
What range are you shooting at? With a Spitfire Mk.IXc you can use your .303's to line up quick shots with your cannon. However, with only two guns in the IXe instead of the 4 you have in the Mk.IXc, the ammunition is much more precious. There are many advantages you have against him:

Turn rate: this one's obvious

Roll Rate: (better in the clipped wing version)

Initial climb: When you begin to climb, you have the advantage, in prolonged climbs you lose the advantage.

Now, with all this, you can see that you have the obvious advantage in a dogfight. You also have much more fuel than they do, in most cases, so you can stay and fight much longer than they can.

Use your shots carefully, if you are not sure whether you are going to hit, do not fire. Just keep chasing him. The only thing I would do keep him in check is to fire occasional shots over his shoulder or into him as best you can, but no more than a 1/4 second burst. Just enough to scare him. Using these 1/4 second bursts, line up the shots with your cannons. Then, once you are COMPLETELY SURE your shots will hit, open fire with your cannon.

You have all the time in the world. The 109 is the one with shorter legs. If he runs away, and you survive, that is a victory in itself. If you destroy him and lose against another 109, then the victory was for nothing, because you are still dead, and another plane and pilot have been lost.

Be very aggressive, keep pressing him. Sooner or later he will make a mistake due to haste. That half a second of hesitance will cost him his life, because that 1/2 second of hesitance will be the time you fire your guns, and the time the wings separate from the fuselage of his plane.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

VW-IceFire
09-12-2004, 03:47 PM
Far and away from some (crazed) peoples claim that the Hispano is too easy to aim http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Deflection shooting is as much a science as it is in art. You need to practice quite a bit before you feel comfortable with it.

Some things to keep in mind:

1) Set your convergence. Don't use the default 500 and 500 for cannons and machine guns...try something like 200-300.

2) The nose blocks some of your vision so you may have to shoot blind.

3) Practice deflection shooting on slow moving aircraft first and then work your way up. You'll be able to aquire the "art" part of deflection shooting by knowning roughly where your bullets will fall.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RAF No 92 Squadron
"Either fight or die"

biggs222
09-12-2004, 06:09 PM
i dunno if it will work for you but i set Cannons and Mgs to 200m and i can get great accuracy while do deflection shooting when i open fire right when the plane is about 200m (plus or minus 50 meters or so)and the plane is about to enter the big circle on the reflector sight. it seems to be perfectly line up right at that moment...

so for instance...im closing in on a 109(or any other plane) and its nose is just about to enter the reflecot sight's circle i open up with everyt thing..8/10 times i get direct hits. if ur on a server that doesnt have icons, 200 meters away makes the average fighter plane look like it would take up about half the diameter of the circle on the spit's reclector sight.

thats the best i can tell ya...have fun!

VOL_Hans
09-12-2004, 06:23 PM
Zero your lead in with the MG's and then swap to the cannons for your shots.
The wingtips of the aircraft should ATLEAST be wide enough to touch both edges of the ring on the site across the widest part.

Also, be glad you don't have a 190 style bar in the way, eh?

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

steiner562
09-12-2004, 06:31 PM
Hispanos are easy to use compared to other armanents in the game and the damage they do compared to other comparable weapons is massive,keep at it and you will soon be killing those 109gs in one pass attempts be sure. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.bf109.com/gallery/grayeagle/gallgray01sm.jpg
"The 109? That was a dream, the non plus ultra. Just like the F-14 of today. Of course, everyone wanted to fly it as soon as possible. I was very proud when I converted to it."
Major Gunther Rall, German fighter ace, NATO general, Commander of the German Air Force. 275 victories.

Friendly_flyer
09-12-2004, 11:39 PM
Some time ago someone posted a scanned RAF wartime manual on areal shooting. It helped me a lot. Do anyone remember what thread, or can someone repost the scannings?

Fly friendly!

Petter Bøckman
Norway

karost
09-13-2004, 12:37 AM
For deflection shooting skill you have do a lot of home work, not only practice but you have to understand and make a calculate for D.R. Table (deflection range) which use three factors
- Velocity speed for 20mm ammo
- Target a/c air speed
- Your shooting range

then you will get that range for line up deflection so the next step is practice , the first one who teach me for deflection shooting is AI in this game http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif after he show me 120 degree deflection ... wow I reply that track file for many time to study , that was three year ago for the first version of this game.

gun sight in spit easy to spray shoot but not easy to point shoot like LW gun sight , 2x20 mm need more convergent range setup so that give more work when you have to shoot the target that stay inside of you convergent setup.

deflection shooting is a very fun but not easy and need a lot of time for practice and don't limit you ability for make deflection shooting only 30-40 degree of deflection just try more harder like 90-150 degree deflection for next step of your training...! The top class of deflection shoot is blind spot deflection shooting to shoot a target the pull loop or turn a lot.

I made an old guideline for deflection shooting for share my idea to new friends who like to try just visit here: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=717109834&r=895100934#895100934


And this is for a blind spot deflection shoot track file
Hi yoyo and blind spot deflection (http://www.allthaiproperties.com/bmax/fb/track/hi_yoyo_blind_deflection.ntrk)

120-90 degree blind spot deflection (http://www.allthaiproperties.com/bmax/fb/track/gg_10_df_zero.ntrk)

Oh.. my ping is not good so I will open fire when target stay below 150 meter , 70-100 meter is my favor range.

I don't have spit guideline I have only 109 sample. Spit can do this job easier after you give more training http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


S!

[This message was edited by karost on Mon September 13 2004 at 12:07 AM.]

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-13-2004, 06:57 AM
Join a local trap & skeet club. It'll come fairly quickly or you'll give up. Also, I found that most people attempt deflection shooting at longer ranges than is reasonable. The better you get the farther out you can get strikes. Though it may sound contradictory, I recommend setting your convergence farther out to start with (400-500m is good for the Spits) as the visual image of firing at an aircraft beyond convergence can be confusing at times. Especially in the Spitfires.


Our FB server info: http://www.greatergreen.com/il2

Raiden48
09-13-2004, 07:18 AM
aim and shoot .... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

OldMan____
09-13-2004, 07:22 AM
The only thing difficult firing with spit is the very limited ammo at hispanos (thanks god).. so you cant just shoot until the sky is filled with bullets like in a FW190

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
09-13-2004, 08:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
The only thing difficult firing with spit is the very limited ammo at hispanos (thanks god).. so you cant just shoot until the sky is filled with bullets like in a FW190

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

only the pilots with bad aim do so...

btw if you need some practice with the deflection shooting try playing vs the AI and disable the Cockpit view, switch to non-cockpit and trace your bursts.
you'll get a feeling for your guns...

or do it like the FW pilots need to, use the Force.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

one thing for the HIspano, since the ROF is not as high as the MG151/20 you can't make the enemy fly through your burst because here is more space between the bullets one reason why deflection shootings is a bit harder.

http://home.arcor.de/sebastianleitiger/other%20Stuff/we%20rule%20your%20world3.jpg (http://www.hell-hounds.de)

karost
09-13-2004, 09:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ToP_BlackSheep:
btw if you need some practice with the deflection shooting try playing vs the AI and disable the Cockpit view, switch to non-cockpit and trace your bursts.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi, ToP_BlackSheep
that is a good idea for a basic guning and learning for his cannon characteristic( rate of fire, velocity speed , convergence range ) for a new friends who don't have a good skill to use pov hat swtich or don't have track IR.

after the trainee get used for his cannon then "STOP using non-cockpit", if you put your self into difficult situation your learning curve will progress faster then easy situation.

spit's cockpit has batter visibility for guning than 109 and 190.

S!

Multimetal
09-13-2004, 11:13 AM
Just another quick hint-you almost always need to lead them about twice as much as you think. It's extremely rare to miss in front of your target, 95% of deflection shots that are missed are missed behind the target. The adivce above about joining a trap and skeet club is spot-on, or even better find a sporting clays course, as those are likely to offer some hard crossing shots. The USAAF used skeet shooting to teach their pilots the fundamentals of aerial gunnery in WW2, and it still works as a training tool!

Sofiyah
09-14-2004, 07:51 AM
hi

I agree with the convergence set to 400- 500m, it give u time to prepare and u have the distance to boot. As for joining a gun club to learn convergence shooting, forget it. Here in the UK, its like gold trying to get in. It is seen also as an elitist sport, particed by the monarchy and lords et. For us ordinary joes, they will not let us near a gun for fear of rebellion or a war they want us to fight. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sofiyah
09-15-2004, 10:45 AM
hi

Do you know where i can get that book posted on line of the raf manual for deflection shooting?

best wishes