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View Full Version : What do you know about the new combat system?



topeira1980
09-07-2014, 04:48 PM
hi everyone.

the biggest disappointed for me in EVERY AC game was the combat. it started showing great potential and with every game it became worse and worse as they simplified it farther and farther into the shallow boring mess it was in ACIV.
the constantly said that in ACU combat is harder so there is more reason for stealth, but nobody asks UBI about combat in any Q&A nor they show much of it in the walkthroughs so maybe you guys can tell me what is known about the new system.

all i could gather is there are dodges and parries as separate moves again (bringing back what i liked in AC1 and AC2) and that there are attacks and power attacks (bringing back from AC1 as well).
i also know that counters no longer kill but merely open the enemy up for counter attacks. (finally!)
also no fancy long linear kill moves.
thats all the info i know.

the things i'd wish to see the most are changes to the AI more than what arno can do. i wish for the AI to no longer be binary. in AC2 and up enemies were like in Batman - how they reacted to the players' moves was predictable, binary and according to their type so in ACIV agiles ALWAYS dodged. normal enemies NEVER blocked. brutes ALWAYS block. commanders ALWAYS counter. etc etc. there was zero surprise in what an enemy does to the player so defeating them was completely simple - if it's a regular than you attack. if it's an agile you do a defence break then attack. same as against a brute. against the commanders you counter, disarm then attack a few times... etc etc. defeating an enemy was 100% a matter of doing the exact same thing as every other one of the same type. like in Batman. however in batman there are many reasons why it works while in AC it doesnt.
i really wish they'd make enemies be unpredictable. so enemies will sometimes take a hit and other times dodge. sometimes they parry and sometimes they counter, which requires you to react to the counter. more like how things were in AC1.
i "think" that's what im seeing in the short combat scenarios shown in the walkthroughs - in the E3 presentation the guy who played on stage fought the spear wielding guy and attacked him but that guy always blocked. in a different walkthrough of the same mission you can see arno attacking that same guy yet he isnt blocking at all, taking all hits and dying. i am optimistic but who knows?.....


is there any farther info you, guys, can share?

JustPlainQuirky
09-07-2014, 04:56 PM
I'm not sure it's that good.

Devs say it's revamped but some people who got hands-on the game said the combat is 'broken' whatever that means.

SlyTrooper
09-07-2014, 05:25 PM
I'm not sure it's that good.

Devs say it's revamped but some people who got hands-on the game said the combat is 'broken' whatever that means.

It means that the combat wasn't in the game. They couldn't fight at all. It's got nothing to do with the quality of it.

JustPlainQuirky
09-07-2014, 05:26 PM
Who do you mean 'they' ?

Because I don't think we're talking about the same people.

king-hailz
09-07-2014, 05:34 PM
All I know is 'Rock, Paper, Scissors' I have no idea what it means... I guess we will know when we play....

SlyTrooper
09-07-2014, 06:04 PM
Who do you mean 'they' ?

Because I don't think we're talking about the same people.

Testers. Who do you mean?

topeira1980
09-07-2014, 06:06 PM
All I know is 'Rock, Paper, Scissors' I have no idea what it means... I guess we will know when we play....

im not sure i like the sound of that. rock paper scissors means that one thing always works against another. its bad news for me if whomever said "RPS" was refering to enemy types.
however if this RPS reference was made about your moves and the enemy's than that's a good thing - so power attack is good against a block, block is good against normal attacks, normal attacks are good against power attacks etc.
if the enemy has few options in combat (for example - it either does a normal attack or a power attack) and each option requires the player to do another thing (parry against a normal attack or dodge against a power attack) than that's awesome. if an enemy can parry AND counter and each requires different reaction (parry requires the player to dodge and a dodge requires the player to parry, for example) it's also awesome.
as long as the AI isnt completely binary and predictable.

in Batman arkham origins i think the martial artists were the best thing that the combat in that game got from that iteration. they were a little unpredictable and required you to watch for what the enemy was doing. the spinning attacks required two counters compared to the normal attack. if the martial artists countered batman than you had to counter back etc etc. it was\is fun.

SlyTrooper
09-07-2014, 06:33 PM
Do we know if they have brought back the block button, or is it just the same as normal? If the block button is back, then the combat is like AC1 but without the instakill.

topeira1980
09-07-2014, 07:27 PM
Do we know if they have brought back the block button, or is it just the same as normal? If the block button is back, then the combat is like AC1 but without the instakill.

what do you mean "bring back the block button"? when was it ever missing?
you could always hold down a button (be it left trigger or B) to prevent damage. in AC3 and ACIV you could hold B to block or tap B during at incoming attack to enter parry moment during which you can decide what parry you wanna do. the silly thing was that parry+kill was always the best option so why would i disarm a guard or throw him if i can just kill him?

the cool thing about AC1 was that you have to TIME the counter to make it work, which was harder since enemies had normal attacks AND slow powerful attacks. in the videos we've seen there is no slow motion when countering so we can guess it isnt like AC3 and ACIV. i just wonder if you can just hold block and prevent all damage and become invincible like before or is it like with BATMAN where you cant do that. you HAVE to time it.

ze_topazio
09-07-2014, 07:31 PM
I'm not sure it's that good.

Devs say it's revamped but some people who got hands-on the game said the combat is 'broken' whatever that means.

Means it doesn't work very well probably.

SlyTrooper
09-07-2014, 07:31 PM
what do you mean "bring back the block button"? when was it ever missing?
you could always hold down a button (be it left trigger or B) to prevent damage. in AC3 and ACIV you could hold B to block or tap B during at incoming attack to enter parry moment during which you can decide what parry you wanna do. the silly thing was that parry+kill was always the best option so why would i disarm a guard or throw him if i can just kill him?

the cool thing about AC1 was that you have to TIME the counter to make it work, which was harder since enemies had normal attacks AND slow powerful attacks. in the videos we've seen there is no slow motion when countering so we can guess it isnt like AC3 and ACIV. i just wonder if you can just hold block and prevent all damage and become invincible like before or is it like with BATMAN where you cant do that. you HAVE to time it.

That was more of a parry than a block.

m4r-k7
09-07-2014, 08:56 PM
Well in both AC Unity demo's, they have taken the stealth approach, making me think that the combat is a lot harder and they are putting a higher emphasis on stealth. If we look back at the last few AC's gameplay demo's before release, they often take the full out combat approach.

The fact that we have hardly seen any combat is exciting, as it shows that they really want us to take a stealthy approach!

topeira1980
09-07-2014, 09:45 PM
That was more of a parry than a block.
how would you describe the difference?

i think blocking is more passive and done with shields and in un-armed combat by putting your hands up. it's absorbing the attack.
parry is active. done as a reaction to an incoming blow and is deflecting the attack and not absorbing it.

i dont think there was every a blocking\parrying mechanic that was removed from the AC games. only thing was that in AC1 you had to time the parry\counter pretty precisely and in AC2 and above you dont have to time it so much.

@m4r-k7 - i dont think UBI isnt showing a feature to emphasis something else. it COULD be but i just think they arent showing it yet since they are saving the moment they talk about it more elaborately for later for PR purposes. also combat might need slightly more polishing to look good enough to show.
but the main point is - just because they are promoting stealth doesnt mean combat is good or hard.

just now i found this video from gameinformer. it has the most amount of info about combat that i've ever seen. good info and nice footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOokFN1Nows
im pretty sure ppl here saw it already but it's new to me.

SlyTrooper
09-07-2014, 10:23 PM
how would you describe the difference?

i think blocking is more passive and done with shields and in un-armed combat by putting your hands up. it's absorbing the attack.
parry is active. done as a reaction to an incoming blow and is deflecting the attack and not absorbing it.

i dont think there was every a blocking\parrying mechanic that was removed from the AC games. only thing was that in AC1 you had to time the parry\counter pretty precisely and in AC2 and above you dont have to time it so much.

@m4r-k7 - i dont think UBI isnt showing a feature to emphasis something else. it COULD be but i just think they arent showing it yet since they are saving the moment they talk about it more elaborately for later for PR purposes. also combat might need slightly more polishing to look good enough to show.
but the main point is - just because they are promoting stealth doesnt mean combat is good or hard.

just now i found this video from gameinformer. it has the most amount of info about combat that i've ever seen. good info and nice footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOokFN1Nows
im pretty sure ppl here saw it already but it's new to me.

Well the "block" in ACIV was more of a reaction. The block in AC1 was held up.

Kakuzu745
09-08-2014, 06:20 AM
If combat is more similar to AC1 than to other games we got a winner.

topeira1980
09-08-2014, 06:46 AM
than i guess you didnt know you can hold up block in AC3 and ACIV as well.
the difference was that if you wanted to counter in AC1 you could block and "add" parry\counter. in ACIV\3 you need to NOT block and tap block when an attack is incoming. its a better risk-reward system but was very easy to execute.


If combat is more similar to AC1 than to other games we got a winner.
perhaps. i just hope the health system is better than in previous AC games. according to the inventory we've seen there are medicines, like in AC2. but it's a question of how much we need medicine:
does health auto-regenerate? does it regenerate during combat?
how much health do you get? how much armor? is there a separation between armor and health?

i hope that at least i can refrain from upgrading my health\armor enough so the combat is indeed challenging and fun and i dont become a bloody terminator by the end of the game....