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F19_Ob
06-12-2004, 05:08 AM
Earlier there had been some questioning about the accurasy and hitting power of the p63 cannon. Since I had done similar tests on the 20mm and 30mm cannons of the luftwaffe I thought I might do the p63 aswell since I equally like the p39 series.

I flew about 50 short sorties in QMB ( about 2hours) with p63 against 109G6. The 10 first sorties I just familiarised myself spraying and playing with all guns.

The next 40 sorties I use the cannon only and made tracks to review the damage.

The result is: of 40 single hits at various distances 36 was immediate kills, and the target exploded or lost parts like wings, tailsections or just blew the engine in flames, stopping it every time.

The rest of the 4 hits crippled the 109 badly, blowing of an elevator, rudder or aileron.

on one 109 I hit the fuselage wich didnt cut in half like the most others but the second killed it.

only on one sortie 3 hits was required. 1 hit blew one elevator off, the second hit cut off the rudder and the fin, and the 3'rd hit took the second elevator so the plane spunn to the ground.

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additional comments:

The p63 cannon shells doesnt explode at the ground like the 30mm MK108 cannon.

It absolutetly disables fighters better than the 30mm cannon when it hits. the 30mm is fasterfiring though wich to me makes it equal in lethality.

The whole fighter rocks when the cannon fires (like in RL).

Its not so much different in aiming than the 30mm cannon but it took quite some practice to score hits. If U have trained a lot with the 30mm mk108 U will cope faster I think. If u haven't practiced the cannon before I belive it will be very hard to hit anything.

It seems useless to fire continuosly with the cannon since it rocks out of aim.

Other than that The mg's are also very effective and if u dont like the cannon the mg's will be enough.



well....there U go http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

F19_Ob
06-12-2004, 05:08 AM
Earlier there had been some questioning about the accurasy and hitting power of the p63 cannon. Since I had done similar tests on the 20mm and 30mm cannons of the luftwaffe I thought I might do the p63 aswell since I equally like the p39 series.

I flew about 50 short sorties in QMB ( about 2hours) with p63 against 109G6. The 10 first sorties I just familiarised myself spraying and playing with all guns.

The next 40 sorties I use the cannon only and made tracks to review the damage.

The result is: of 40 single hits at various distances 36 was immediate kills, and the target exploded or lost parts like wings, tailsections or just blew the engine in flames, stopping it every time.

The rest of the 4 hits crippled the 109 badly, blowing of an elevator, rudder or aileron.

on one 109 I hit the fuselage wich didnt cut in half like the most others but the second killed it.

only on one sortie 3 hits was required. 1 hit blew one elevator off, the second hit cut off the rudder and the fin, and the 3'rd hit took the second elevator so the plane spunn to the ground.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

additional comments:

The p63 cannon shells doesnt explode at the ground like the 30mm MK108 cannon.

It absolutetly disables fighters better than the 30mm cannon when it hits. the 30mm is fasterfiring though wich to me makes it equal in lethality.

The whole fighter rocks when the cannon fires (like in RL).

Its not so much different in aiming than the 30mm cannon but it took quite some practice to score hits. If U have trained a lot with the 30mm mk108 U will cope faster I think. If u haven't practiced the cannon before I belive it will be very hard to hit anything.

It seems useless to fire continuosly with the cannon since it rocks out of aim.

Other than that The mg's are also very effective and if u dont like the cannon the mg's will be enough.



well....there U go http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

F19_Olli72
06-12-2004, 05:13 AM
I flew it online the first time the other day, not my kind of ride, i did better in P-51. But definatly a capable fighter.

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Olli72/Forgotten%20Battles/cloudtut/sig2.jpg (http://www.screenshotart.com)

DeBaer.534
06-12-2004, 05:29 AM
i dont think the P63s cannon needs gunnery like with the mk108. from what ive noticed (i fly LW planes most of the time) the P63s cannon has a higher muzzle speed than the mk108 (which has very slow speed). therefore you need less deflection, have larger range and so on. its more like the Bf110 Bk3.7 i'd say, or the mk103 maybe.

F19_Ob
06-12-2004, 05:48 AM
Debaer...U might be right about the deflection.
Im used to the mk108 30mm and I noticed That I frequently fired in front of the target with the p63 cannon in the beginning of the test.

I have only flown a short period in the p63 so I find it a bit difficult at the moment. The 109 is the most familiar plane to me and therefore much easier.

Still its not an easy weapon and gunneryskills similar to the 30mm is required.The severe rocking also will trow it off aim wich will be difficult to cope with if u arent used to cannons (my opinion).

[This message was edited by F19_Ob on Sat June 12 2004 at 05:52 AM.]

Cragger
06-12-2004, 10:10 AM
Now do your same test and replace the 109 with a FW190D9. You'll be amazed at the different results you'll get.

http://redspar.com/redrogue/cragger_sig.jpg

F19_Ob
06-12-2004, 10:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cragger:
Now do your same test and replace the 109 with a FW190D9. You'll be amazed at the different results you'll get.

http://redspar.com/redrogue/cragger_sig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ok I did that. 20 quickmissions against D9
7 of the 11 singlehits on the wing cut it off.
A wef times it could take a hit to the wing withot loosing it but couldnt fight any more.
a few times I also hit the fuselage without disabling the fighter. It had holes on outside but I dont know how much internal damage.

3 of the 20 planes managed to take 2 hits but seemed severly damaged and went down on the third hit (mercy blow).
A few could take 2 hits but was unable to stay airborne and crashed.

D9 sems a bit more armored and it dindt cut in half as as often as the 109 but even if the fighter didnt go down it was unable to continue fighting.

I was still kind of happy with the results although I didnt test 40 times as with the 109...dont have any more time for now....going away for a few days.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

DeBaer.534
06-12-2004, 11:11 AM
thats acceptable, compared to the damage the Mk108 causes. (i had mustangs surviving 5 (five) hits.)
indeed the FW190 is not usable for combat anymore with the slightest wing damage. even 5-8 .50cal hits on the outer wing will force the pilot to disengage.

A130
06-12-2004, 11:50 AM
I've been seeing about the same thing against the 109's, offline and off. One hit pretty much does it.

BTW, thanks to all who suggested setting cannon convergence to 100m. It took me a few runs in QMB before I stopped shooting over or in front of targets; once I figured out that this setting allows you to aim DIRECTLY at the target, I found the accuracy improving immensely. Still not too good at the hard deflection shots, but at least I can usually hit from the six.

Tried this online yesterday in a 109G with a nose-mounted MK108. 100m convergence worked extremely well for this, too, against both B-17's and P-51's. It seemed to do adequate damage against both, but I fired from very short range.

p1ngu666
06-12-2004, 12:22 PM
its like that for most planes now :\

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

GAU-8
06-12-2004, 02:55 PM
i must be using a completely different p-63 with cannon

i cant bag a plane until after 4 dead on shots. (tracks available if needed.) in cockpit, in fuselage, at wing root.. cannon dont work for me..

but then again. i deal with a bigger, better, slower, more unstable cannon . the YAK9K. im glad no one uses her that much.. my sweet secret

Gibbage1
06-12-2004, 06:13 PM
Try the P-63 in the new patch (2.01). Oleg changed the gun after I dug up some info. IT has a lot more velocity and a bigger shell then the old P-63 and the P-39

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GAU-8:
i must be using a completely different p-63 with cannon

i cant bag a plane until after 4 dead on shots. (tracks available if needed.) in cockpit, in fuselage, at wing root.. cannon dont work for me..

but then again. i deal with a bigger, better, slower, more unstable cannon . the YAK9K. im glad no one uses her that much.. my sweet secret<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

Atomic_Marten
06-12-2004, 06:24 PM
nice thread.

Mitlov47
06-12-2004, 08:26 PM
GAU-8: I've found that the P-63 cannon often fails to get kills if you shoot someone directly on the tail. Sometimes it damages control surfaces, and the 109 will sometimes lose it's entire tail, but the FW-190 tends to be able to survive tail hits from the P-63. Wing hits or top-of-fuselage hits, however, will easily down a FW190.

I would sure hope that a P-63 does more damage per hit than a Mk-108, considering it's got about 1/5 the rate of fire http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif You can't fire a *burst* of 37mm rounds into a plane like you can fire a *burst* of Mk108 rounds into a plane.

As far as I can tell, the 37mm has a muzzle velocity about halfway between the Mk108 and the Mk103. The Mk103 is an absolutely brutal gun--powerful and very, very high velocity.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/387_1086736236_p-63sigimage.jpg

Mitlov47
06-12-2004, 08:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
nice thread.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have yet to see a P-63 thread turn into a whine-fest or a flame-fest. Something about the KingCobra just brings out people's sense of civic duty and courteous behavior http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/387_1086736236_p-63sigimage.jpg

Locust_
06-12-2004, 08:45 PM
Online & offline the gun reacts much differantaly

altho it normaly destroyes anything it hits on or off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/p38loco1sig.jpg

F19_Ob
06-13-2004, 02:44 AM
Yes EMitton I agree, sometimes the tailplanes can stop and absorb some of the effect of a cannonshell as in RL. On One fighter I hit the elevator wich came off, the second tore off the fin and rudder and the third took the single remaining elevator and the plane went down.
Personally I think the damage is extremly well modelled in FB and there are satisfyingly many variations in damage, and I guess that it is impossible to have all the damagevariations that existed in RL.