PDA

View Full Version : What is your Definition of a "True Assassin"?



Namikaze_17
08-30-2014, 11:18 PM
During my time being on these forums, I've seen many fans dispute on what makes a True Assassin. Some say Cold and Stoic Characters such as Altair and Connor and Some others say Expansive and Exciting characters such as Ezio and Edward.

Where do I think the definition is?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ITrB9lj2NU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

There is none for me...All learned and followed in different ways with different perspectives so I can respect that.

But what about you?


Feel Free to Discuss!!! ;)

purplekurple
08-30-2014, 11:23 PM
Someone who kills political figures for any reason.

RinoTheBouncer
08-30-2014, 11:24 PM
I think there’s no such thing as a true Assassin, because each person is different and the Creed is not a religion, it’s more of an idea. It doesn’t have a long set of rules and requirements, so I think as long as you fight for that idea that you believe in, as long a you’re strong enough to remain loyal to it and give it your best, you are a true Assassin.

It’s like the Creed is a group of freedom fighters, of people who believe in the potential of the human race and that no one is superior or more deserving to be in the position of leading all those people and deciding what they should and shouldn’t do. So as long as these freedom fighters are strong-willed enough to fight for this cause regardless of whether they’re cold, stoic, reckless, funny, womanizer..etc., then they’re indeed true Assassins.

mmac900
08-30-2014, 11:27 PM
Not a pirate.

Fatal-Feit
08-30-2014, 11:36 PM
Someone who truly shares their view. IMO, the Creed is nothing more than a guideline. Repeating it does not make you an Assassin. And nor does having the abilities of one. It's the conviction that really defines you.

On the contrary with popular beliefs, Edward's a perfect example of a ''true'' Assassin. He have experienced first hand what it's like to fight for either the Templars or Assassins, and most importantly, himself. By the end of AC:IV, he wised up and his convictions were everything of an Assassin. And the following kills are a perfect example.

JustPlainQuirky
08-30-2014, 11:46 PM
No such thing.

Assassin_M
08-30-2014, 11:54 PM
Not a pirate.
So they can be prostitutes, mercenaries, thieves and politicians but not pirates? okay.

A belief in humanity's inborn right to be free and independent, something which all the Assassins we'v played with so far shared. We'v had prostitutes, thieves, mercenaries, politicians, inventors, pirates...etc be Assassins.

mmac900
08-30-2014, 11:58 PM
So they can be prostitutes, mercenaries, thieves and politicians but not pirates? okay.

A belief in humanity's inborn right to be free and independent, something which all the Assassins we'v played with so far shared. We'v had prostitutes, thieves, mercenaries, politicians, inventors, pirates...etc be Assassins.

I am entitled to my opinion. I did not like AC IV because it was about pirates and not assassins. Just because by the very end Edward stopped being a ****** and started understanding stuff doesnt mean that I think he was truly an assassin.

Fatal-Feit
08-30-2014, 11:59 PM
So they can be prostitutes, mercenaries, thieves and politicians but not pirates? okay.

A belief in humanity's inborn right to be free and independent, something which all the Assassins we'v played with so far shared. We'v had prostitutes, thieves, mercenaries, politicians, inventors, pirates...etc be Assassins.

bout aciv no tru assazin gam3. eit piratez simul@tor

mmac900
08-31-2014, 12:01 AM
bout aciv no tru assazin gam3. eit piratez simul@tor

Yup and neither was AC 3. Terrible games that almost ruined the franchise for me.

Let the flaming begin from Connor fan boys.

m4r-k7
08-31-2014, 12:05 AM
I am entitled to my opinion. I did not like AC IV because it was about pirates and not assassins. Just because by the very end Edward stopped being a ****** and started understanding stuff doesnt mean that I think he was truly an assassin.

It was not purely about pirates. I don't get why people say it's not an assassin's creed game. Not only did Edward learn more about the assassin's in a less amount of time than the other assassin's, but we saw his transition from pure pirate to pirate assassin. There was so much about assassin's in the game from the carribean assassin's in the missions to the optional templar hunts! The way Edward become an assassin was so bloody interesting compared to "I need revenge so I am joining the creed" way. Edward was a pirate and an assassin. There was more stealth in the game and more assassination targets. Just because alot of the game revolves around naval and sailing does not mean it wasn't about assassin's!

Right rant over.

mmac900
08-31-2014, 12:09 AM
It was not purely about pirates. I don't get why people say it's not an assassin's creed game. Not only did Edward learn more about the assassin's in a less amount of time than the other assassin's, but we saw his transition from pure pirate to pirate assassin. There was so much about assassin's in the game from the carribean assassin's in the missions to the optional templar hunts! The way Edward become an assassin was so bloody interesting compared to "I need revenge so I am joining the creed" way. Edward was a pirate and an assassin. There was more stealth in the game and more assassination targets. Just because alot of the game revolves around naval and sailing does not mean it wasn't about assassin's!

Right rant over.

I dont like pirates, so him becoming a pirate assassin means absolutely nothing to me. I also did not like naval battles. Same as I didnt like the hunting and other crap in AC3, it has absolutely nothing to do with being an assassin. Just give me my city setting already unity!

m4r-k7
08-31-2014, 12:15 AM
I dont like pirates, so him becoming a pirate assassin means absolutely nothing to me. I also did not like naval battles. Same as I didnt like the hunting and other crap in AC3, it has absolutely nothing to do with being an assassin. Just give me my city setting already unity!

Just because you didn't like the pirate theme, doesn't mean it's not about assassin's. I thought they handled the pirate theme perfectly, with Edward initially pretending to be an assassin for money, but then as he learnt about what the assassin's stood for, he joined them and used his pirate skills to his advantage.

Namikaze_17
08-31-2014, 12:21 AM
@mma

How exactly is getting an expensive city with the typical "I want Revenge" motivation make you an Assassin.

I respect your opinion...but I disagree about Edward and him not feeling like an Assassin. Edward was what you would call a "Common Man". Sure he didn't care at first, but that was part of the story...it was telling about how the CREED can change and affect a person in a lifetime. Edward saw the Assassins as a hindrance, then a lost ally, and finally a means of Redemption for Everything he lost. Pay attention to his talks with Mary and Adewale; about how he dislikes the Creed and what it says, to finally a new perspective on his life.

Say what you want, but I personally think Edward learned about the Creed deeper than Assassin we've had.

Assassin_M
08-31-2014, 12:21 AM
Waaaa waaaa i don't like pirates waaaaa but I like prostitutes, thieves and mercenaries waaaaa, you're the fanboys--let me clog my ears to anything reasonable you have to say.

Xstantin
08-31-2014, 12:24 AM
The true perfect assassin would be boring as hell imo.

m4r-k7
08-31-2014, 12:24 AM
@mma

How exactly is getting an expensive city with the typical "I want Revenge" motivation make you an Assassin.

I respect your opinion...but I disagree about Edward and him not feeling like an Assassin. Edward was what you would call a "Common Man". Sure he didn't care at first, but that was part of the story...it was telling about how the CREED can change and affect a person in a lifetime. Edward saw the Assassins as a hindrance, then a lost ally, and finally a means of Redemption for Everything he lost. Pay attention to his talks with Mary and Adewale; about how he dislikes the Creed and what it says, to finally a new perspective on his life.

Say what you want, but I personally think Edward learned about the Creed deeper than Assassin we've had.

This. Thank you!

Fatal-Feit
08-31-2014, 12:25 AM
I dont like pirates, so him becoming a pirate assassin means absolutely nothing to me. I also did not like naval battles. Same as I didnt like the hunting and other crap in AC3, it has absolutely nothing to do with being an assassin. Just give me my city setting already unity!

He wasn't a pirate Assassin. He was a pirate who became an Assassin. You can't be one or the other.

Namikaze_17
08-31-2014, 12:29 AM
I just laugh at people who hate Pirates becoming Assassins, but would jump for the hills if a Stripper or some sort
wanted to become one. :rolleyes:

Landruner
08-31-2014, 03:39 AM
THe topic had been brought to our attention on this forum many months ago and back in time he turned in backlash among AC fans being for most "Casual" since the franchise was turning a different turn with AC3 and AC4BF I even started a thread about it in past January that had been closed right away for preventing the trolling.

On the other hands, that is always interesting to wonder about that crucial question - "What is a true assassin for us, the fans of that franchise? "

In my opinion they are no real definition or appellation for a true assassin - That franchise does not give a sense in the creed like they first intended. I do not deplore the turn I just try to catch and understand the motivation of each protagonist through the different stories offered to us.

To me assassins closest to the original Ubisoft scenarist intentions were Altair and then Ezio.

Connor had different motivation in order to get involved with the creed (which was not a bad approach neither) and Edward became involved despite his own will (which is not a bad approach neither x2).

I tend to relate that each hero is an assassin by its own way and it helps me to deal with what I am missed or what I would think the things could have been. I have huge reserve for Unity more than Rogue, which could be more interesting and curious approach if done well .

I understand it had been a lot of polemics about Edward and him as being an assassin, actually after replaying the game for a second time right now, I got more the concept about the story written by Darby and unfortunately his scenarist intentions had been ruined by a poor and uninspired game-play design (mostly regarding the main missions story) - that is the weakness of that game and one dark points for a lot to accept him as an assassin.

The same could be said for AC3 - Connor is a great character and he could have been ultimately as one of the greatest if the game did not get tossed at our faces the way it had been unfinished. Connor did not get a chance to redeem himself except of the one that saw something on that guy.

Desmond, ah Desmond well he the most misunderstood and testing subject we ever seen for a all video gaming industry, in AC1 he was supposed to us as a the player - that is it - they just try to give more importance then in AC2 and later started killing him pieces by pieces via the next installments (However ACB is his pinnacle, except for that cliffhanger end that then went no where) - Him too did not get a chance to be understood and then accepted, except for the ones that saw a potential in that guy.

Namikaze_17
08-31-2014, 05:48 AM
@Landruner

Well said... ;) I always felt like Desmond was underrated as a character too.

The_Kiwi_
08-31-2014, 08:58 AM
Someone who gets contracted to kill people, it doesn't really matter who because a true assassin shouldn't really ask questions, they should just do it. Alta´r was the closest to this, he was contracted to kill 9 political figureheads, he did start asking questions though but he still did it. No other assassin did that, really.

Hans684
08-31-2014, 09:34 AM
Agent 47 with or without the Assassins Creed. Jk

ze_topazio
08-31-2014, 11:53 AM
As long as you're accepted in to the Brotherhood you're a true Assassin.

GunnerGalactico
08-31-2014, 11:55 AM
I think there’s no such thing as a true Assassin, because each person is different and the Creed is not a religion, it’s more of an idea. It doesn’t have a long set of rules and requirements, so I think as long as you fight for that idea that you believe in, as long a you’re strong enough to remain loyal to it and give it your best, you are a true Assassin.

It’s like the Creed is a group of freedom fighters, of people who believe in the potential of the human race and that no one is superior or more deserving to be in the position of leading all those people and deciding what they should and shouldn’t do. So as long as these freedom fighters are strong-willed enough to fight for this cause regardless of whether they’re cold, stoic, reckless, funny, womanizer..etc., then they’re indeed true Assassins.


Someone who truly shares their view. IMO, the Creed is nothing more than a guideline. Repeating it does not make you an Assassin. And nor does having the abilities of one. It's the conviction that really defines you.

On the contrary with popular beliefs, Edward's a perfect example of a ''true'' Assassin. He have experienced first hand what it's like to fight for either the Templars or Assassins, and most importantly, himself. By the end of AC:IV, he wised up and his convictions were everything of an Assassin. And the following kills are a perfect example.

I agree with the above posts, so there's no need for me to parrot any of it. It is also about the way you act and carry yourself, as well as standing up for what you believe in.

Hans684
08-31-2014, 12:33 PM
The Creed, without it their just common criminals no matter how they kill.

straty88
08-31-2014, 12:38 PM
As long as you're accepted in to the Brotherhood you're a true Assassin.

About that...
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130223105157/assassinscreed/fr/images/5/5c/Stephane_Chapheau.png

ze_topazio
08-31-2014, 12:52 PM
About that...
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130223105157/assassinscreed/fr/images/5/5c/Stephane_Chapheau.png

A true Assassin, let's be fair here, he did all those stupid redcoat killings before becoming an Assassin, before being instructed by Connor in the ways of the creed.

EmptyCrustacean
08-31-2014, 02:01 PM
Just because you didn't like the pirate theme, doesn't mean it's not about assassin's. I thought they handled the pirate theme perfectly, with Edward initially pretending to be an assassin for money, but then as he learnt about what the assassin's stood for, he joined them and used his pirate skills to his advantage.

It wasn't about the Assassins. For one thing, the protagonist wasn't an Assassin until the closing credits and even worked alongside the Templars on his latest treasure quest.

Landruner
08-31-2014, 03:08 PM
Agent 47 with or without the Assassins Creed. Jk

Hahaha Hans! LOL!I :pwould have said the same in my last post but I did not want people think I am trolling again.:rolleyes:

Anyway you are right Agent 47 is and surely more attached to his conviction than the recent assassins. 47 is a cold hard blooded assassin and a loner as well. It had some kind of mystery about that character that makes that Hitman franchise interesting and appealing to me.

Also game-play wise I wish that AC franchise could get closer to some mechanics present in the hit-man games (past and recent).

I did enjoy the past Hitman game (Absolution), although they changed a lot of things, but I really felt that any kill (assassination) my character was making was mattering & counting so much that I tried to eliminate the foes the less possible, and I only focused on the main targets.
The reason being that each guards, cops or bodyguards had some AI values and where not just random cloned NPCs set around a level design. When I had no other choice to proceed to elimination, I did it cold proper and as much as discreetly than possible, enjoyed it and felt bad about it.
That is sick and strange, but that is the way the devs tried to push their Fan to feel while taking the game by the rules and the more serious as possible.

I played the game in different ways and messed with the game as well, but for most re-plays I tried to keep constancy at keeping 47 the more precis and motivated in his objectives as much as possible.

Like AC they had some challenge guideline that was giving extra points if you were a shadow assassins, I did like that more that the second objectives from the AC series.

I did like that approach of giving that dimension to the NPCs setting and it gave more immersion for me at doing the job correctly and properly at getting the deadliest shadow assassin than possible I could. I got the same

Even when you have to tail you target, something is build around that makes more sense than the AC series that transform the all tailing into a shore of mini game full of frustration with a timer that goes on even if your target is still in front of you....

Also in the latest Tomb Raider I felt that Lara was a good assassin, or if it was not the intention from the devs of that game to turn it into an assassin, well, I played Lara as one.

EmbodyingSeven5
08-31-2014, 03:38 PM
Just because you didn't like the pirate theme, doesn't mean it's not about assassin's. I thought they handled the pirate theme perfectly, with Edward initially pretending to be an assassin for money, but then as he learnt about what the assassin's stood for, he joined them and used his pirate skills to his advantage.

hey man leave him alone. in the end we all have our own opinions. and no one is dumb or misguided for not liking something. I did like the transition but couldn't ubi make it a little faster. it felt weird hunting down Templars just for the cash. its cool to know your character has his own moral conviction to the creed. no matter what you say next you cannot deny that Edward was a pirate for the majority of this game. even though the assassin/ Templar story was present I didn't like to be someone in the middle for the majority. I remember letting my friend try the game over my house. he kept coming over to play and one day he just said, "This doesn't feel like Assassins creed". I probably would have liked the game more if ubi advertised it more as being someone that was in the middle. he was not an pirate trained by assassins. he was an pirate trained by pirates

straty88
08-31-2014, 03:53 PM
he was an pirate trained by pirates

Pirate trained by Templars... :rolleyes:

Fatal-Feit
08-31-2014, 05:24 PM
hey man leave him alone. in the end we all have our own opinions. and no one is dumb or misguided for not liking something. I did like the transition but couldn't ubi make it a little faster. it felt weird hunting down Templars just for the cash. its cool to know your character has his own moral conviction to the creed. no matter what you say next you cannot deny that Edward was a pirate for the majority of this game. even though the assassin/ Templar story was present I didn't like to be someone in the middle for the majority. I remember letting my friend try the game over my house. he kept coming over to play and one day he just said, "This doesn't feel like Assassins creed". I probably would have liked the game more if ubi advertised it more as being someone that was in the middle. he was not an pirate trained by assassins. he was an pirate trained by pirates

Edward didn't hunt Templars for their cash. He originally used them to fill his pockets and was caught. Julius and following deaths before his redemption was for other means.

Anyway, so what if Edward was a pirate for most of the game? It was relevant to the story. It added to the setting, character, and gameplay. Nobody complained about Ezio becoming an Assassin at sequence 13 in AC:2. Before then, he was just an angry revengeful Italian who took up the mantle for his own means. And there was no talk about the Assassin's Creed whatsoever before then. Literally, no Assassin's Creed. Or philosophy. Everyone was too one-dimensional to offer any enlightenment in AC:2. Compare that to Edward's many back and forth against the Templars, Assassins, and their Creed. Emphasis on the ''Assassin's Creed'', not Assassins Warriors, mate.

I'm not sure what your friend considers ''Assassin's Creed'' to be but AC:IV is exactly what an Assassin's Creed game should be. A game about the Assassin's Creed. We haven't had that since AC:1.

Landruner
08-31-2014, 05:54 PM
Edward didn't hunt Templars for their cash. He originally used them to fill his pockets and was caught. Julius and following deaths before his redemption was for other means.

Anyway, so what if Edward was a pirate for most of the game? It was relevant to the story. It added to the setting, character, and gameplay. Nobody complained about Ezio becoming an Assassin at sequence 13 in AC:2. Before then, he was just an angry revengeful Italian who took up the mantle for his own means. And there was no talk about the Assassin's Creed whatsoever before then. Literally, no Assassin's Creed. Or philosophy. Everyone was too one-dimensional to offer any enlightenment in AC:2. Compare that to Edward's many back and forth against the Templars, Assassins, and their Creed. Emphasis on the ''Assassin's Creed'', not Assassins Warriors, mate.

I'm not sure what your friend considers ''Assassin's Creed'' to be but AC:IV is exactly what an Assassin's Creed game should be. A game about the Assassin's Creed. We haven't had that since AC:1.

After replaying the game for my 360 version, I understand a bit more the intention of Darby regarding the progression of his story with Edward that is an assassin by the end of the game, or least Edward spouses deeper the concept of it.

My opinion is that the game suffers of two major problems

Problem #1 Most of the main missions game-play are a disaster. Most of them are build on the same template (aka tailing and eavesdropping system) - In short my point is that 75% of the game-play does not support the story written by Darby. Edward is neither and assassin nor a pirate by just a spy, or a stoker and when he has to assassinate, well it is really because the game tells you to do so, but we don't really anticipate his motivation or really why he has to do it, or if we do, we superficially feel it, but not deeply like we should have.

Problem #2 The scenario, I understand that Darby wanted to make a point with Edward becoming an assassin by the end, but although some pieces of the story come to a slow progression to that situation final, those pieces are superficial and they are not developed well enough, at least not enough for getting the player to fully understand Edward in his action.
To me, Edward is an interesting character and it could have been much more if they had focused more of those two elements I described above and the elements between Pirate and Assassin at the same time will have been more obvious and accepted.

My opinion also includes the fact that it was a video game and not a movie and if such final could have work for a movie because it ends,it felt short for a game and perhaps they should have extended it by a second story (post that final story) that could have been more "assassin" oriented (?)
At least It would have surprised everybody and most of the AC fans will dance the same gig regarding that Pirate vs Assassin that AC4BF is.

Layytez
08-31-2014, 05:58 PM
Edward didn't hunt Templars for their cash. He originally used them to fill his pockets and was caught. Julius and following deaths before his redemption was for other means.
And then Assassination missions were introduced and Edward only accepted to do them because he would get paid.

Hans684
08-31-2014, 06:27 PM
Hahaha Hans! LOL!I :pwould have said the same in my last post but I did not want people think I am trolling again.:rolleyes:

Someone gotta do it.


Anyway you are right Agent 47 is and surely more attached to his conviction than the recent assassins. 47 is a cold hard blooded assassin and a loner as well. It had some kind of mystery about that character that makes that Hitman franchise interesting and appealing to me.

They should try making a similar character like 47, a more job focused Assassin. I'd say 47 is better than any Assassin so far.


Also game-play wise I wish that AC franchise could get closer to some mechanics present in the hit-man games (past and recent).

Agree, Unity has some. It might benefit with even more, like a better disguise system.


I did enjoy the past Hitman game (Absolution), although they changed a lot of things, but I really felt that any kill (assassination) my character was making was mattering & counting so much that I tried to eliminate the foes the less possible, and I only focused on the main targets.
The reason being that each guards, cops or bodyguards had some AI values and where not just random cloned NPCs set around a level design. When I had no other choice to proceed to elimination, I did it cold proper and as much as discreetly than possible, enjoyed it and felt bad about it.
That is sick and strange, but that is the way the devs tried to push their Fan to feel while taking the game by the rules and the more serious as possible.

I've only played Absolution. Agree, Hitman is more creative with kills, planning and execution. AC will always have a curtain path but that's mainly because of the lore. We're reliving memories that did happen so it's performance was already in stone before we got in the Animus. But I like that Absolution has a sense of life like Watch_Dogs, NPCs have a history they talk about, they have lives. Their more than dolls and punching bags. It's not easy to just kill some guy talking about his family even if we have to take him out to get going, I always feel bad. I don't want to kill anyone except my target.


I played the game in different ways and messed with the game as well, but for most re-plays I tried to keep constancy at keeping 47 the more precis and motivated in his objectives as much as possible.

I always play the same style(stealth) but perform it differently, I just can't go around shooting mindlessly. My objective is always the same, stealth, no bodies found(or no bodies at all if possible) and as little casualty as possible. It's not fun unless it's a shooter, where I'm in the middle of far where pulling the trigger first is the only rule.


Like AC they had some challenge guideline that was giving extra points if you were a shadow assassins, I did like that more that the second objectives from the AC series.

Wouldn't mind that.


I did like that approach of giving that dimension to the NPCs setting and it gave more immersion for me at doing the job correctly and properly at getting the deadliest shadow assassin than possible I could. I got the same

I don't English, explain. It's not my strongest side.


Even when you have to tail you target, something is build around that makes more sense than the AC series that transform the all tailing into a shore of mini game full of frustration with a timer that goes on even if your target is still in front of you....

The timer can be considered a part of the Animus system that needs to be fixed.


Also in the latest Tomb Raider I felt that Lara was a good assassin, or if it was not the intention from the devs of that game to turn it into an assassin, well, I played Lara as one.

I've considered getting TR but I've not played any previous games(I know it's a reboot), how similar is to Uncharted?


And then Assassination missions were introduced and Edward only accepted to do them because he would get paid.

It's called being a Pirate. But yes Edward like Ezio become an Assassin at the end of their game so both is Assassins.

Fatal-Feit
08-31-2014, 06:31 PM
Problem #1 Most of the main missions game-play are a disaster. Most of them are build on the same template (aka tailing and eavesdropping system) - In short my point is that 75% of the game-play does not support the story written by Darby. Edward is neither and assassin nor a pirate by just a spy, or a stoker and when he has to assassinate, well it is really because the game tells you to do so, but we don't really anticipate his motivation or really why he has to do it, or if we do, we superficially feel it, but not deeply like we should have.

I disagree. In my opinion, AC:IV's gameplay translated everything Darby wanted to convey perfectly. Even the ''Assassin'' parts are the best in the series, as well.

For me, the main missions were fine. If you weren't tailing or eavesdropping, you were still offered the option of stealth in an open-ended mission. That's exactly what Assassin's Creed should have continued after the first game. You weren't always restricted to linear sequences or pathways. Edward, despite being a pirate, played the role of an Assassin. And that translated in the story , as well. The side characters weren't being rhetorical towards Edward, he really did have said gifts. The game doesn't tell you to assassinate, it offers you the chance to. You can pretty much assassinate most (if not, all) of the important targets by will. And if assassinations and stealth aren't your thing, you can always go out guns blazing like a reckless pirate.

Most of the game gives players the pirate/assassin feel. For example, when you board a ship, you can either play it stealth by taking down the snipers and air assassinate the captain, or jump in with your crew. Then there's raiding a warehouse. Again, you can hire a bunch of pirates and storm the plantation, or play it stealth.


Problem #2 The scenario, I understand that Darby wanted to make a point with Edward becoming an assassin by the end, but although some pieces of the story come to a slow progression to that situation final, those pieces are superficial and they are not developed well enough, at least not enough for getting the player to fully understand Edward in his action.
To me, Edward is an interesting character and it could have been much more if they had focused more of those two elements I described above and the elements between Pirate and Assassin at the same time will have been more obvious and accepted.

While I fully disagree with problem #1, I respect your opinion in problem #2. I had the same problem, and after my 2nd and 3rd second replay, things started to come together. Honestly, Assassin's Creed have never had the best mix of narrative and gameplay. When I go back and replay the older titles, AC:IV starts to look like a saint in comparison.


My opinion also includes the fact that it was a video game and not a movie and if such final could have work for a movie because it ends,it felt short for a game and perhaps they should have extended it by a second story (post that final story) that could have been more "assassin" oriented (?)
At least It would have surprised everybody and most of the AC fans will dance the same gig regarding that Pirate vs Assassin that AC4BF is.

The problem with AC:IV, in my opinion, was the marketing. What they marketed was a game about pirates. But what they had was so much more than that. More than what the majority of the franchise have offered when it comes to Assassin's Creed.

I've replayed the entire series last summer, and honestly, AC:IV represented the Assassins and their Creed the 2nd best in the franchise. The first being AC:1, of course. With AC:IV, it's not a case of mixed identity, but a problem with false identity. <-- Idiotic marketing for the mass appeal.


And then Assassination missions were introduced and Edward only accepted to do them because he would get paid.

And? So did Ezio in AC:2-AC:R, Aveline in AC:L, and Connor in AC:3.

Assassination missions are side missions that are suppose to help fund your endeavors.

Namikaze_17
08-31-2014, 07:25 PM
It wasn't about the Assassins. For one thing, the protagonist wasn't an Assassin until the closing credits and even worked alongside the Templars on his latest treasure quest.

Aside from working aside the Templars, that sounds alot like AC2 Ezio...you know, the guy that was an Assassin the "whole way."

Landruner
08-31-2014, 10:49 PM
I disagree. In my opinion, AC:IV's gameplay translated everything Darby wanted to convey perfectly. Even the ''Assassin'' parts are the best in the series, as well.

For me, the main missions were fine. If you weren't tailing or eavesdropping, you were still offered the option of stealth in an open-ended mission.

Forgive me, I just reply to this above because I really don't understand if I have an option to pick another path during the main mission.

When I tried to do the main mission sequence or memories sequence the game forces me most of the time to tail and/or eavesdropping conversation I have no other option than doing this because if I don't I get dis-synchronized,


I can't avoid the "one path or way" that the game is offering me. That is the problem I have with that type of game-play, I have not the freedom to pick another option, but follow what the game wants me to do.

Of course I do not have to play the main mission like you seemed to say and I could do something else instead but what is the point to fully enjoy the game if I do not touch the main missions?

I mean the general consensus about that game is that most of the main missions were build on the same template without any difference. Tail, follow , eavesdrop, don't get caught and kill, and dare not try to do something else or you are good for redoing the sequence or the last checkpoint.
It would have been okay for 1 or 2 memories sequence in the game, but for 75% of it that is a total lack of imagination and creativity for the game-play as much for an assassin as a pirate as well. (or even for any game) - I mean I am not the only one that say that and it is not a scoop, but the truth.

What they could have done this type of situation in the main story instead:
Edward could have set an ambush instead of following the dudes, or put some poison in a cup of wine, and then black mail him with an antidote for information, Edward could have capture his wife for another blackmail, he could have ask the guy for a duel or steal a diam that the guy cherish and exchange it for information. He could have try to sabotage his business and get him to bend. etc....

Even AC1 (linear and repetitive i could be) was giving different options time to time for getting your information. (Staling, eavesdropping, racing or beating some dudes) that was not a lot but at least it was putting a bit more variety. for getting your information regarding your target.

So many scenarist game-play's possibilities instead of just following and listening to the guys either for information or to kill them. Besides such kind of actions as I describe above could have given Edward more amplitude as a character as well (Pirate and assassin as well) .

The assassinations in general let you a bit more freedom regarding the way your target could be killed, but still it was mostly offered by a narrow path to follow as well.

I respect your opinion and i do not want to argue about it, but please try to understand what I try to reproach to that type of game-play and I am surprised that you did not feel they could have done so much more that just tail, eavesdrop type of mission over and over.

Note: I saw in your reply that you mentioned some reference the pirate game-play such as boarding and the different way to do so - I do not have problem with the pirate game-play since it is to me one the major pinnacle of the game - (I just personally wished that they offer a big more objectives than the 2 or 3 variants for boarding the bigger ships, and I wished we could stealth infiltrate some ship inside the deck for sabotaging, killing the captain or else).

I mean if you say that the game-play of the main story reflected or translated what Darby intended, I believe you, but if it is case, I think that is a bit sad to see so much potential wasted.

I just quickly mention that perhaps you are right about the marketing, however; and I insist that both Pirates and Assassin at the same time was a great idea and it could have make everybody on the same page if both type of gameplay were accordingly at the same level of creativity.

Fatal-Feit
08-31-2014, 11:51 PM
Forgive me, I just reply to this above because I really don't understand and it is what I meant to say by the weakness of that game play - When I try to do the main mission the game forces me to tail and/or eavesdropping conversation I have no other option than doing this because if I don't I get dis-synchronized,

I can't avoid the "one path or way" that the game id offering me. That is the problem I have with that type of game-play, I have not the freedom to pick another option, but follow what the game wants me to do.

Tailing and eavesdropping are the only time you can get desynchronized. But after that, you've tonnes of freedom. Sure, you're in a set location, but after the last 6 games, you should get the gist.


Most of the main missions were build on the same template without any difference. Tail, follow , eavesdrop, don't get caught and kill, and dare not try to do something else or you are good for redoing the sequence or the last checkpoint.

It would have been okay for 1 or 2 memories sequence in the game, but for 75% of it that is a total lack of imagination and creativity for the game-play as much for an assassin as a pirate as well. (or even for any game)

75%? More like 10%.

And the imagination and creativity are visible enough in the cities/world, story/characters, and gameplay/side-content.

At the end of the day, AC:IV isn't as free as AC:1, but it's arguably more enjoyable and still 10x more free/open than any of the other predecessors.


What they could have done this type of situation in the main story instead:
Edward could have set an ambush instead of following the dudes, or put some poison in a cup of wine, and then black mail him with an antidote for information, Edward could have capture his wife for another blackmail, he could have ask the guy for a duel or steal a diam that the guy cherish and exchange it for information. He could have try to sabotage his business and get him to bend. etc....

The wishing game have always plagued the series. I, personally, prefer to judge a game based on the accomplishment it have done, rather than what it could have done.

Of course, it's fun to throw around ideas once in a while, but when it comes to comparing past titles, I like to leave it at the door.


Even AC1 (linear and repetitive i could be) was giving different options time to time for getting your information. (Staling, eavesdropping, racing or beating some dudes) that was not a lot but at least it was putting a bit more variety. for getting your information regarding your target.

AC:I'Vs counterpart is exploration and variety when taking down targets. I mean, when you boil it down, AC:1 only has 2 ways of taking down the target. It's either combat, or assassinating with the hidden blade. AC:IV offers a series of pathways and methods of accomplishing that.


They could have so many scenarist game-play's possibilities instead of just following and listening to the guys either for information or to kill them. Besides such kind of actions as I describe above could have given Edward more amplitude as a character as well (Pirate and assassin as well) .

The assassinations in general let you a bit more freedom regarding the way your target could be killed, but still it was mostly by a narrow patch to follow.

I agree, linearity have been plaguing the series since AC:2. But AC:IV is still the best of what we have, even when you're comparing it to AC:1. Or at least for me.


I respect your opinion and i do not want to argue about it, but please try to understand what I try to reproach to that type of game-play and I am surprised that you did not feel they could have done so much more that just tail, eavesdrop type of mission over and over.

Tailing and eavesdrop don't take up even 10% of the game. --And they add to the stealth/stalking. I've never had too much of a problem with them, especially since AC:IV is nowhere as linear as AC:2-AC:R and AC:3. Sure, there could have been more, but more was part of the exploration in AC:IV.


Note: I saw in your reply that you mention some reference the pirate game-play such as boarding and the different way to do so - I do not have problem with the pirate game-play since it is to me one the major pinnacle of the game - (I just personally wished that they offer a big more objectives than the 2 or 3 variants for boarding the bigger ships, and I wished we could stealth infiltrate some ship inside the deck for sabotaging, killing the captain or else).

I mean if you say that the game-play reflected or translated what Darby intended, I believe you, but if it is case, I think that is a bit sad to see so much potential wasted.

With 2 years in development, and mostly a re:hash of past assets for development, I believe the developers (and Darby, of course) have done the best they can. Albeit, another year could have turned this amazing game into a masterpiece with your examples.


I just quickly mention that perhaps you are right about the marketing, however; and I insist that both Pirates and Assassin at the same time was a great idea and it could have make everybody on the same page if both type of gameplay were accordingly at the same level of creativity.

In my opinion, they were at the perfect level with what they had. Everything from raiding warehouses, to plundering ships, to exploring islands, to taking down forts, to assassinations contracts, and etc, etc, had a perfect mix of piracy and liberation.

I mean, I can literally sit here all day and talk about how you can hunt and take down a fort with your ship, and then stealthy parkour around and air assassinate the overseers while your crew is in combat.

Don't get me wrong, I wish there was more, but AC:IV was still, what HMS calls it, the ''best of'' what we've had.

--------------

I apologize for getting off-topic, btw.

The_Kiwi_
09-01-2014, 01:33 AM
That escalated quickly...
I couldn't even read it all
I did find it annoying however that the "Assassin crest with the skull" flag didn't make an appearance until the very end.

Landruner
09-01-2014, 02:39 AM
Tailing and eavesdropping are the only time you can get desynchronized. But after that, you've tonnes of freedom. Sure, you're in a set location, but after the last 6 games, you should get the gist.



75%? More like 10%.

And the imagination and creativity are visible enough in the cities/world, story/characters, and gameplay/side-content.

At the end of the day, AC:IV isn't as free as AC:1, but it's arguably more enjoyable and still 10x more free/open than any of the other predecessors.



The wishing game have always plagued the series. I, personally, prefer to judge a game based on the accomplishment it have done, rather than what it could have done.

Of course, it's fun to throw around ideas once in a while, but when it comes to comparing past titles, I like to leave it at the door.



AC:I'Vs counterpart is exploration and variety when taking down targets. I mean, when you boil it down, AC:1 only has 2 ways of taking down the target. It's either combat, or assassinating with the hidden blade. AC:IV offers a series of pathways and methods of accomplishing that.



I agree, linearity have been plaguing the series since AC:2. But AC:IV is still the best of what we have, even when you're comparing it to AC:1. Or at least for me.



Tailing and eavesdrop don't take up even 10% of the game. --And they add to the stealth/stalking. I've never had too much of a problem with them, especially since AC:IV is nowhere as linear as AC:2-AC:R and AC:3. Sure, there could have been more, but more was part of the exploration in AC:IV.



With 2 years in development, and mostly a re:hash of past assets for development, I believe the developers (and Darby, of course) have done the best they can. Albeit, another year could have turned this amazing game into a masterpiece with your examples.



In my opinion, they were at the perfect level with what they had. Everything from raiding warehouses, to plundering ships, to exploring islands, to taking down forts, to assassinations contracts, and etc, etc, had a perfect mix of piracy and liberation.

I mean, I can literally sit here all day and talk about how you can hunt and take down a fort with your ship, and then stealthy parkour around and air assassinate the overseers while your crew is in combat.

Don't get me wrong, I wish there was more, but AC:IV was still, what HMS calls it, the ''best of'' what we've had.

--------------

I apologize for getting off-topic, btw.

Well, I let you the last word on that one since obviously we have different points of view regarding this game, but I still insist of the 75 % of the main mission are tailing and listening.... I am replaying the game right now for having the full "synchrony" and trust me I knew they were a lot I was not remembering that they were so many and it is not 10% ...(???)

I notice that you are keeping in referring to the game-play in general including the side contents of the game, which was not to what I was referring to in my two previous posts since I referred in my original post was concerning the main missions story game-play.
My original reference was still about Edward as a hero in AC4BF that he could have getting more a more understood representation being a pirate and an assassin if the main mission game-play would have been more developed. consequently my point was that the story and Edward did not get the ultimate same reception or perception that they could have - Still in my book pirate could have been assassin at the same time. For some reasons like some others that wrote there, I had accidentally some little history with BF and perhaps, It perhaps gets on me that some suggested ideas of game-play back then went by the window...I don't know?. It is still a good game though.

Like I said previously I do not want to argue with you, you have your opinion and I have mine or better what about you are right, and I am wrong...?

Fatal-Feit
09-01-2014, 03:26 AM
Well, I let you the last word on that one since obviously we have different points of view regarding this game, but I still insist of the 75 % of the main mission are tailing and listening.... I am replaying the game right now for having the full "synchrony" and trust me I knew they were a lot I was not remembering that they were so many and it is not 10% ...(???)

I notice that you are keeping in referring to the game-play in general including the side contents of the game, which was not to what I was referring to in my two previous posts since I referred in my original post was concerning the main missions story game-play.
My original reference was still about Edward as a hero in AC4BF that he could have getting more a more understood representation being a pirate and an assassin if the main mission game-play would have been more developed. consequently my point was that the story and Edward did not get the ultimate same reception or perception that they could have - Still in my book pirate could have been assassin at the same time. For some reasons like some others that wrote there, I had accidentally some little history with BF and perhaps, It perhaps gets on me that some suggested ideas of game-play back then went by the window...I don't know?. It is still a good game though.

Like I said previously I do not want to argue with you, you have your opinion and I have mine or better what about you are right, and I am wrong...?

I've spent more than 300 hours on that game, across platforms. The consistent tailing and eavesdropping are evident, sure, but nowhere close to 75%.

Anyway, I agree with you. AC:IV could have been more, and I wish it was. But what we have now is still the ''best of'', in my book. As I've said, AC have never been very cohesive with it's gameplay and narrative.

Kakuzu745
09-01-2014, 03:28 AM
It was predictable that this thread would become an Edward or Connor flame thread haha...although I know that was not your intention Namik.

Yes, Edward was a pirate for the most part of the game and in the end if you are going to compare Edward vs. the other assassins you will not understand the character because you will only see him as a pirate and not a character that is part of a story that in the end give us probably one of the most clear understanding about what the creed is?

Would I like to have more time with the order? Yes.
Do I think the assassins story with the observatory and etc could have been better? Yes

Still not enough to discard Edward as a true assassin and exalt Ezio...

Take it from someone who used to hate Edward deeply.

EmbodyingSeven5
09-01-2014, 04:10 AM
And then Assassination missions were introduced and Edward only accepted to do them because he would get paid.

Thank you!!:)

Namikaze_17
09-01-2014, 04:17 AM
It was predictable that this thread would become an Edward or Connor flame thread haha...although I know that was not your intention Namik.

Yes, Edward was a pirate for the most part of the game and in the end if you are going to compare Edward vs. the other assassins you will not understand the character because you will only see him as a pirate and not a character that is part of a story that in the end give us probably one of the most clear understanding about what the creed is?

Would I like to have more time with the order? Yes.
Do I think the assassins story with the observatory and etc could have been better? Yes

Still not enough to discard Edward as a true assassin and exalt Ezio...

Take it from someone who used to hate Edward deeply.

Yes, It wasn't...but it's alright.Everyone has a different perspective I guess...And to tell the Truth, I wasn't too Keen of Pirates and Edward either at first, but I've come to understand his character, story, and overall progression. So yeah...

And what sickens me is that most fans are so delusioned by what it takes to be considered an Assassin. Putting on the Robes, reciting the words, Having a Brotherhood, and merely killing Templars DOES NOT make an Assassin. it's about the understanding of the Creed, and your overall Conviction to do what is right for Humanity.

Connor & Edward are perfect examples of this during their PERSONAL journeys of Understanding the Creed, and how it affected them.

That sometimes your ACTIONS can lead to a life Glory...( Ezio) or a LIFE of Tragedy... ( The Kenways)

EmbodyingSeven5
09-01-2014, 04:20 AM
And? So did Ezio in AC:2-AC:R, Aveline in AC:L, and Connor in AC:3.

Assassination missions are side missions that are suppose to help fund your endeavors.

no in those games I was an assassin and it felt natural to do these things.also the characters of these assassins didn't do it for money. they did it to help fellow friends and assassins. in AC 4 Edward was a pirate who was selfish and ended up doing an assassins job. Edward WAS NOT AN ASSASSIN.

Fatal-Feit
09-01-2014, 04:33 AM
no in those games I was an assassin and it felt natural to do these things.also the characters of these assassins didn't do it for money. they did it to help fellow friends and assassins. in AC 4 Edward was a pirate who was selfish and ended up doing an assassins job. Edward WAS NOT AN ASSASSIN.

First of all, Ezio wasn't an Assassin in AC:2. He didn't know what he was, or what he was doing at all. Other than helping a family's friend, he accepted those contracts to afford better arsenal for his revenge.

Second, in addition to money, Edward did contracts to support the Assassins' endeavors. Pirates, themselves, shares a similar dream as the Assassins. A life of freedom and liberty. The only thing that really separates them are their methods and goals.

Anyway, opinions on what felt natural or not aside, Edward was indeed an Assassin. He shared their convictions, and was willing to fight for it. Dressing yourself in an Assassin's robe, using their tools, and spouting the Creed does not make one an Assassin.

Landruner
09-01-2014, 04:41 AM
It was predictable that this thread would become an Edward or Connor flame thread haha...although I know that was not your intention Namik.

Yes, Edward was a pirate for the most part of the game and in the end if you are going to compare Edward vs. the other assassins you will not understand the character because you will only see him as a pirate and not a character that is part of a story that in the end give us probably one of the most clear understanding about what the creed is?

Would I like to have more time with the order? Yes.
Do I think the assassins story with the observatory and etc could have been better? Yes

Still not enough to discard Edward as a true assassin and exalt Ezio...

Take it from someone who used to hate Edward deeply.

Hey! I do not know if your post (above) was addressed to me or not (?), but no hate was there against Edward and I never addressed my previous post against Edward as not being an assassin.
I was just trying to explain why I believe people are so divided about his motivation as an assassin and my point related that did not get the main mission gamep-lpay the game should had had for a better homogeneity of the two (Pirate and Assassin) . It was no hate neither against Edward nor the game itself.

I am sorry if the topic went off in trying to explain something, but read carefully my previous and original posts, it was not my intention.

Kakuzu745
09-01-2014, 05:50 AM
Yes, It wasn't...but it's alright.Everyone has a different perspective I guess...And to tell the Truth, I wasn't too Keen of Pirates and Edward either at first, but I've come to understand his character, story, and overall progression. So yeah...

And what sickens me is that most fans are so delusioned by what it takes to be considered an Assassin. Putting on the Robes, reciting the words, and merely killing Templars DOES NOT make an Assassin. it's about the understanding of the Creed, and your overall Conviction to do what is right for Humanity.

Connor & Edward are perfect examples of this doing their PERSONAL journeys are Understanding the Creed, and how it affects them.

That sometimes your ACTIONS lead to a life Glory...( Ezio) or a LIFE of Tragedy... ( The Kenways)

Exactly...I like Ezio and all...but I think his fanbase somehow decided that it was necessary to follow a certain stereotype to be considered an assassin. I guess that when you have three game to be developed as a character you have a certain advantage vs. the other guys :S


Hey! I do not know if your post (above) was addressed to me or not (?), but no hate was there against Edward and I never addressed my previous post against Edward as not being an assassin.


No worries Land...it was not about what you said...I was mostly talking about some post in the first pages.

ze_topazio
09-01-2014, 03:13 PM
First of all, Ezio wasn't an Assassin in AC:2. He didn't know what he was, or what he was doing at all. Other than helping a family's friend, he accepted those contracts to afford better arsenal for his revenge.

That's not true, he spent several months training with Mario in the village and that included reading all the available information they had, meaning he knew very well what the Assassins and their purposes were.

m4r-k7
09-01-2014, 03:24 PM
hey man leave him alone.

Dude, I was just stating my opinion, I wasn't insulting him at all! We all have our own opinions you are right, thats what discussions are about right?

Shahkulu101
09-01-2014, 03:41 PM
Dude, I was just stating my opinion, I wasn't insulting him at all! We all have our own opinions you are right, thats what discussions are about right?

No. if you challenge someone's opinion your a stuck up ******* with a superiority complex.

At least that's what I've been told.

EmbodyingSeven5
09-01-2014, 10:17 PM
First of all, Ezio wasn't an Assassin in AC:2. He didn't know what he was, or what he was doing at all. Other than helping a family's friend, he accepted those contracts to afford better arsenal for his revenge.

Second, in addition to money, Edward did contracts to support the Assassins' endeavors. Pirates, themselves, shares a similar dream as the Assassins. A life of freedom and liberty. The only thing that really separates them are their methods and goals.

Anyway, opinions on what felt natural or not aside, Edward was indeed an Assassin. He shared their convictions, and was willing to fight for it. Dressing yourself in an Assassin's robe, using their tools, and spouting the Creed does not make one an Assassin.


lol. do you realize that you just said wearing assassins robes, killing Templars and using their tools didn't count as being an assassin right before you claimed Edward was an assassin. and at least ezio worked directly with assassins! and trained with them........ and learned from them. if that's not an assassin I don't know what is. and im talking about the Edward that was present for most of the game. before end all he cared for was himself


That's not true, he spent several months training with Mario in the village and that included reading all the available information they had, meaning he knew very well what the Assassins and their purposes were.

thank you


Dude, I was just stating my opinion, I wasn't insulting him at all! We all have our own opinions you are right, thats what discussions are about right?

sorry wrong person:o

Assassin_M
09-01-2014, 10:22 PM
at least ezio worked directly with assassins!
So did Edward.

Namikaze_17
09-01-2014, 10:28 PM
lol. do you realize that you just said wearing assassins robes, killing Templars and using their tools didn't count as being an assassin right before you claimed Edward was an assassin. and at least ezio worked directly with assassins! and trained with them........ and learned from them. if that's not an assassin I don't know what is

Read my earlier post...I've clearly said those things you mentioned doesn't always make an Assassin, it's about your overall understanding of the Creed, and your Conviction to do what is right. That is where AC2/ACB Ezio and Edward differ in my opinion...

EmbodyingSeven5
09-01-2014, 10:31 PM
So did Edward.
for Edward it was more 50 percent pirate affiliation and 50 percent Assassin. I just rather the game focus more on the creed


Read my earlier post...I've clearly said those things you mentioned doesn't always an Assassin, it's about your overall understanding of the Creed, and your Conviction to do what is right. That is where AC2/ACB Ezio and Edward differ in my opinion...

.................... how about we agree to disagree?;) friends?

Assassin_M
09-01-2014, 10:34 PM
for Edward it was more 50 percent pirate affiliation and 50 percent Assassin. I just rather the game focus more on the creed
Edward worked with Assassins, that's that, that was your original argument, don't flip it around into some other talk that somehow twists the whole thing into making you right.

Edward worked with Assassins, he assassinated Templars--if that makes Ezio an Assassin (when he was never officially one until the last 10 minutes of the game, like Edward) then it makes Edward one as well. At least Edward's Assassination contracts came from actual Assassins, not some dictator seeking to eliminate his rivals and enemies.

Note: Edward worked with more Assassins than Ezio did: Mary Reed, Ah Tabai, Rhona, Vance, Upton, Anto', Opia, Adewale (he becomes an Assassin)
8 compared to Ezio's 7.

Fatal-Feit
09-01-2014, 10:35 PM
lol. do you realize that you just said wearing assassins robes, killing Templars and using their tools didn't count as being an assassin right before you claimed Edward was an assassin. and at least ezio worked directly with assassins! and trained with them........ and learned from them. if that's not an assassin I don't know what is. and im talking about the Edward that was present for most of the game. before end all he cared for was himself

I do, and if you believe that's what it takes to be an Assassin, you really don't know what Assassins are. You're even contradicting yourself by saying Edward is not an Assassin despite being exactly that for the majority of the game. :p

And working directly with the Assassins doesn't matter. In the end, it's all about their convictions. That is why there are traitor Assassins like Shay, Lucy, Daniel, and the Sentinel.


That's not true, he spent several months training with Mario in the village and that included reading all the available information they had, meaning he knew very well what the Assassins and their purposes were.

He was still on the verge of vengeance. Of course, he became a developed man during those 10 years, but he wasn't sure what to make of himself, or what to do after. That's what happened with Altair and Edward, as well. They are aware of the Assassins/Templars, their purposes and Creed, but that didn't make them into a full-fledge Assassin in the beginning.


I just rather the game focus more on the creed

AC:IV was all about the Assassin's Creed, its merits, and why it's important.

AC:2, AC:B, AC:R, and AC:3 were not about the Assassin's Creed. --Fact.

Namikaze_17
09-01-2014, 10:37 PM
That's not true, he spent several months training with Mario in the village and that included reading all the available information they had, meaning he knew very well what the Assassins and their purposes were.

He knew...but he didn't understand. For the Majority of the game, he was just some angry Italian who wanted Revenge and Revenge only...even at the end, he pretty ***** over all that "development" when he's about kill Rodrigo the first time.

"I thought I was above this, but I realize, I'm not." - Like seriously!? Throughout the whole quest, we're painted with this illusion that he's understood his place, then he pulls this complete 180!? Not to mention, it was bogus how magically he managed to let Rodrigo live the second time, even though his blade was a moment from his chest a minute ago.

And Besides, merely reciting the words and putting on the Robes doesn't always make an Assassin..Achilles said this best himself.


AC:IV was all about the Assassin's Creed, its merits, and why it's important.

AC:2, AC:B, AC:R, and AC:3 were not about the Assassin's Creed. --Fact.

I thought AC:3 had a good emphasis on the Creed, it was just more subtle than the others. Didn't have the protagonist saying "Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted." every cutscene.

Fatal-Feit
09-01-2014, 10:49 PM
I thought AC:3 had a good emphasis on the Creed, it was just more subtle than the others. Didn't have the protagonist saying "Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted." every cutscene.

''Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted'' is the worse thing the franchise have ever done. LMAO

Anyway, I don't mean to imply that they weren't present or relevant. It's just that the Creed took backseat in those games. AC:2-AC:B <-- Simplified into a means of recruitment and symbolism.

AC:1 and AC:IV was about diving into what the Creed is.

Namikaze_17
09-01-2014, 10:55 PM
@Fatal

Oh, Okay...I understand.

And I agree. ;)

EmbodyingSeven5
09-01-2014, 11:33 PM
Never mind

ze_topazio
09-01-2014, 11:37 PM
He was still on the verge of vengeance. Of course, he became a developed man during those 10 years, but he wasn't sure what to make of himself, or what to do after. That's what happened with Altair and Edward, as well. They are aware of the Assassins/Templars, their purposes and Creed, but that didn't make them into a full-fledge Assassin in the beginning.

He had others objectives and he thought the Assassins and Templars were a bunch of lunatics(and he was actually right, poor guy eventually got brainwashed), but what I meant was that he knew what the Assassins were about.

I actually didn't understood what you were saying properly and thought you were saying Ezio didn't knew what the Assassins ideals were, that's why I said what I said.

I-Like-Pie45
09-01-2014, 11:38 PM
Assassin Sheep

Fatal-Feit
09-01-2014, 11:39 PM
He had others objectives and he thought the Assassins and Templars were a bunch of lunatics(and he was actually right, poor guy eventually got brainwashed), but what I meant was that he knew what the Assassins were about.

I actually didn't understood what you were saying properly and thought you were saying Ezio didn't knew what the Assassins ideals were, that's why I said what I said.

That was my fault, sorry.


Never mind

I caught that. Smart move. :p

Locopells
09-02-2014, 12:56 AM
Guys, the 'Edit Post' button exists for a reason...

pacmanate
09-02-2014, 01:41 AM
All of the tenants of the Assassin's Creed.

Aka - None of our protagonists.