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Merlini.a.f.
02-05-2004, 10:48 AM
no wonder they called her "fortress"
check this out: http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm

Merlini.a.f.
02-05-2004, 10:48 AM
no wonder they called her "fortress"
check this out: http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm

Mon Pavion
02-05-2004, 11:26 AM
Awsome dude. Thanks.

Future-
02-05-2004, 11:38 AM
I hereby invite everybody who thinks the B-17 in FB is too tough to take a close look at those pictures.

Man, if we ever should get a heavy bomber fully flyable, 1C/Ubi better makes sure that bomber is the Flying Fortress!

I think the Fortress is the most legendary bomber in the world... both for the losses it suffered, but also for the miracles it worked. And of course, for the extreme damage it caused, though I don't like that part of it's history that much.

Still, the #1 heavy bomber on my wish list for fully flyables is the B-17G (I'd also take the "F"... but that's another story)!

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

Capt.LoneRanger
02-05-2004, 11:48 AM
See that single 20mm shell peeling the skin from the structure? Quite interesting to see, how effectless the 20mm shells are to the back on the I16 and La, LOL


greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://www.cptloneranger.privat.t-online.de/SIG2.jpg

UMPA_Biggles
02-05-2004, 02:07 PM
She is one tough cookie, as I have learnt from IL2, The Mighty Eighth and my trips to Duxford Imperial War Museum.

However, my personal veiw on the subject is the the Yanks are over-sexed, over-paid and over here!

No offence http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/BigglesMKIII/big2.jpg
http://avanimation.avsupport.com/sound/Dbomb.wav <Click here and learn it well

Red_Storm
02-05-2004, 02:37 PM
It's useless judging a plane's durability by photo's like that. I could find pictures of Bf-109's with loads of battledamage too. These are exceptions. For every one plane that flew in like this, hundreds of crewmen died in B-17's that did go down after a single 20mm hit or 30mm impact. Think about those crewmembers lost too when you praise the B-17's "durability".

Zyzbot
02-05-2004, 02:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Red_Storm:
It's useless judging a plane's durability by photo's like that. I could find pictures of Bf-109's with loads of battledamage too. These are exceptions. For every one plane that flew in like this, hundreds of crewmen died in B-17's that did go down after a single 20mm hit or 30mm impact. Think about those crewmembers lost too when you praise the B-17's "durability".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Perhaps so...but they were probably the the exception.

The Luftwaffe estimated that it took an average of 20 hits from the 20mm cannon to destroy a B-17.

http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~josephkennedy/German_Pilot_Perspective.htm

F19_Olli72
02-05-2004, 03:03 PM
From that same source:

"Later in the war, the Germans introduced the Mk 108 30mm heavy cannon capable of firing 600 11-ounce high explosive rounds per minute. Three hits with this weapon were usually sufficient to bring down a Flying Fortress."

Thats about the amount required (sometimes even more) to down an La or Yak in FB or any fighter really for that matter. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Chuck_Older
02-05-2004, 03:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by UMPA_Biggles:
She is one tough cookie, as I have learnt from IL2, The Mighty Eighth and my trips to Duxford Imperial War Museum.

However, my personal veiw on the subject is the the Yanks are over-sexed, over-paid and over here!



No offence http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/BigglesMKIII/big2.jpg
http://avanimation.avsupport.com/sound/Dbomb.wav &lt;Click here and learn it well<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's because you're undersexed, underpaid, and under the impression we WANT to be over there! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

*****************************
the soldier boy, for his soldier's pay, obeys the sergeant at arms, whatever he says ~Clash

Bobsqueek
02-05-2004, 03:27 PM
and you cant ignore what the B24 did too

BS87
02-05-2004, 04:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zyzbot:
Perhaps so...but they were probably the the exception.

The Luftwaffe estimated that it took an average of 20 hits from the 20mm cannon to destroy a B-17.

http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~josephkennedy/German_Pilot_Perspective.htm<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Which is why it takes 3x that many do do the job now in FB?

Zyzbot
02-05-2004, 05:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BS87:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zyzbot:
Perhaps so...but they were probably the the exception.

The Luftwaffe estimated that it took an average of 20 hits from the 20mm cannon to destroy a B-17.

http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~josephkennedy/German_Pilot_Perspective.htm<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Which is why it takes 3x that many do do the job now in FB?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Not for me!

JR_Greenhorn
02-05-2004, 05:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Merlini.a.f.:
http://www.daveswarbirds.com (http://www.daveswarbirds.com/)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Be sure to check out David Hansen's other websites too, especially:
American Aircraft of WWII - Great quick reference to US aircraft types.
A Tribute to the Cactus Air Force - the story of aviators up against impossible odds.
The Naval Air War in the Pacific - Very interesting for those more familiar with the USAAC and the ETO.