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Eugene_Xaar
08-28-2014, 02:46 PM
No one believed me - Limbic, 2015 http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/828643-Might-and-Magic-Heroes-7-(VII)
But I was right.
Would you believe it? http://www.might-and-magic.ru/blog/3/entry-62-might-magic-heroes-7-vii-orcs-of-sahaar/

http://www.might-and-magic.ru/uploads/monthly_08_2014/blogentry-72-0-02540100-1409152522_thumb.jpg

logical.dust
08-28-2014, 04:19 PM
Personally I do not understand what is the purpose of altering the creatures in factions with every heroes sequel. This is not creativity contest. People that played previous sequels are sort of used to strengths and look of units that already been there. Is it really so difficult to came up with story that brings to life some original creatures? Behemonth for example or roc. Heroes had ist own universe which is being slowly destroyed because of unknown reason. How about this story ... nature apocalipse happen - ashan will turn to ash, all creatures die and new world will be born based on H3 design in the lands of Erathia.

Edit: I please all people who are in charge of this, please stop this Ashan thing while there still is some time. I never noticed this as a problem until now. In H5 nobody mind few changes that you made to dungeon and academy as the game was overall very good. But all design changes that have been introduced in H6 are complete catastrophe. If you planing on introducing even more changes game will loose its original charm completely. In fact why you bought the franchise if you completely changing everything? What is cabir? What was wrong with gremlin or halfling? Wolf in heaven makes no sence to me. Why completely new stronghold? Think about why some people still play H3 even if game is totaly obsolete in terms of graphics and was surpased by several mechanics by H5. For me heroes was always game of fantasy / mythology / fairytale ... you are king of kingdom and you rule ... you are throwing away all classic fantasy / mythology which is in every movie or book and everybody is familiar with it and replacing it with your made up world. You really think that this is good idea? I am not saying that Ashan is poorly designed or that story is not marvelous, its just not suitable for heroes game as it was already placed to other universe. The only way how this would work is if you made H7 so tremendously epic that it would surpass H3, H5 not only in graphics, but also in every other aspect. Are you sure you are capable of this? (by looking on town screens from H7 screenshots there does not seem to be much improvement there :/, 6 factions also does not sound very promising). Wouldnt be easier to give people what they want and improve it little by little?

Dwarfurious
08-28-2014, 11:53 PM
Besides the narrow minded Sylvan, people dont want to see the same stuff each game. It makes sense for Factions to change in the timeline, certainly they dont stay static for hundreds of years.

logical.dust
08-29-2014, 12:46 AM
Besides the narrow minded Sylvan, people dont want to see the same stuff each game. It makes sense for Factions to change in the timeline, certainly they dont stay static for hundreds of years.

Its same as saying that people dont want thor or ironman in next avangers movie. I strongly believe that people do want same stuff each game (but improved of course). Its story that should change. Ashan might be popular in 10 years, ... in time when I (and most of HOMM franchise fans) will not care about pc games any more and whole new generation will know nothing about classic stories. But if Ashan will change its content every year, I can tell you with certainty ... noone will care about it, noone will talk about it and noone will dream about it. It will be just one of many universes which were created solely for the marketing purposes. And perhaps then responsible people will start to realise why are people always complaining and why are profits going down ... compare stock market graphs of ubisoft and blizzard in long run (since year 2000) and you will pretty much see who is making better decisions. Blizard has only 3 universes which they didnt change much in over 15 years - they just perfected them.

Edit: I do not want to argue about this, I am not always right. People might be different than I think. I just posted my opinion thats all. I do not think that anyone competent would read it anyway.

Oakwarrior
08-29-2014, 09:52 AM
Personally, if I had the same lineups in each HoMM over and over again, I'd have stopped at HoMM 2, and that already had quite some overlap with HoMM 1.

It's hard to be a fan of Ashan if you've been a fan of the previous universe, because it feels like a hostile takeover, but just keeping things stagnant for the sake of nostalgia is not the purpose of playing or making games. And don't confuse perfecting with milking. Milking will show up on the stock markets (Assassin's Creed as well), while perfecting doesn't, necessarily.

logical.dust
08-29-2014, 01:59 PM
Personally, if I had the same lineups in each HoMM over and over again, I'd have stopped at HoMM 2, and that already had quite some overlap with HoMM 1.

It's hard to be a fan of Ashan if you've been a fan of the previous universe, because it feels like a hostile takeover, but just keeping things stagnant for the sake of nostalgia is not the purpose of playing or making games. And don't confuse perfecting with milking. Milking will show up on the stock markets (Assassin's Creed as well), while perfecting doesn't, necessarily.

Well it would not have to be nostalgia if creatues would be just put there in the present or recent past. There is nothing obsolete or nostalgic on the creatures themselves. All I am asking is including bone dragon / zombie / death knight / devil / effret / gog / behemonth / ogre mage / roc / phoenix / pegas / naga queen / swamp faction / manticore / beholder / medusa / harpy in the game (without excluding other ones that are in H5 presently (besides dark rider - you can get rid of him). Is that too much to ask for? Also I miss other units from previous games as azure, fairy dragons, mummy ... is there some reason why these creatures can not be part of Ashan universe? Are they generally hated by people and need to be replaced? If there is problem fitting everything in, game could just be expanded - new faction created or more tiers per faction added or multiple same level tiers in some factions. I dont mind have more types of T5 units. I generally do not like only 3 tier system, which was introduced in H6 due to pure lazyness I believe. I hope they bring back more tiers. I know that it will not happen, but I have to write it down anyway, so I can in the future say old fashion : 'I told you so' ... just kidding ...

mordredrs
09-22-2014, 06:33 PM
What about the gothic Necropolis feeling from HoMM5? I really miss those vampires...

RobvD84
09-23-2014, 07:00 AM
I agree that sometimes changes are necessery, but with games like these there should still be some things left that ppl can recognize. I also don't understand why Ubi needed to create thier own lore. Even tho 3DO made a mess of thier lore themselves.

matrix123mko
10-16-2014, 06:53 PM
Stronghold musn`t be Saahar orcs. We have arabish castle - the academy. Orcs must be Raanar or Pao.

Darkpriest4rp
10-21-2014, 07:52 AM
Its same as saying that people dont want thor or ironman in next avangers movie. I strongly believe that people do want same stuff each game (but improved of course). Its story that should change. Ashan might be popular in 10 years, ... in time when I (and most of HOMM franchise fans) will not care about pc games any more and whole new generation will know nothing about classic stories. But if Ashan will change its content every year, I can tell you with certainty ... noone will care about it, noone will talk about it and noone will dream about it. It will be just one of many universes which were created solely for the marketing purposes. And perhaps then responsible people will start to realise why are people always complaining and why are profits going down ... compare stock market graphs of ubisoft and blizzard in long run (since year 2000) and you will pretty much see who is making better decisions. Blizard has only 3 universes which they didnt change much in over 15 years - they just perfected them.

Edit: I do not want to argue about this, I am not always right. People might be different than I think. I just posted my opinion thats all. I do not think that anyone competent would read it anyway.

I do not mind changes to factions, especially when they have lore back up. I guess you played only HMoM 3 and never bothered to play original HMoM 1 & 2 or later 4, each game had slightly different factions composition than others...

1 - Knight, Sorceress, Warlock, Barbarian
2 - Knight, Sorceress, Warlock, Barbarian, Wizard, Necromancer (note that the first 4 had changes in their line ups
3 - Castle (humans), Tower (wizards), Rampart (nature), Inferno (devils), Necropolis, Dungeon (beastmen and dragons), Stronghold (humanoids and beasts), Fortress (swamp dwellers and beasts), Conflux (elementals) - the "main" factions had changes in their line ups
4 - Haven, Academy, Asylum, Necropolis, Preserve, Stronghold - not only factions mixed up a bit, but also mixes in the line ups...

The new HMoM in Ashan also follows trends, BUT they do not change faction names, and stick to the main themes of factions. I appreciate that and I am happy to see some new creatures with each new HMoM game...

Darkpriest4rp
10-21-2014, 08:10 AM
Stronghold musn`t be Saahar orcs. We have arabish castle - the academy. Orcs must be Raanar or Pao.

But lore wise and geographic wise those Orcs are best suited for that conflict... if you would get Pao orcs involved, you would probably need to get Nagas somehow involved... and you mistake steppe/mongol barbarian invasions theme with arabic/middle east scholars theme... they are different and thus both can be in

logical.dust
10-22-2014, 06:17 PM
I do not mind changes to factions, especially when they have lore back up. I guess you played only HMoM 3 and never bothered to play original HMoM 1 & 2 or later 4, each game had slightly different factions composition than others...

1 - Knight, Sorceress, Warlock, Barbarian
2 - Knight, Sorceress, Warlock, Barbarian, Wizard, Necromancer (note that the first 4 had changes in their line ups
3 - Castle (humans), Tower (wizards), Rampart (nature), Inferno (devils), Necropolis, Dungeon (beastmen and dragons), Stronghold (humanoids and beasts), Fortress (swamp dwellers and beasts), Conflux (elementals) - the "main" factions had changes in their line ups
4 - Haven, Academy, Asylum, Necropolis, Preserve, Stronghold - not only factions mixed up a bit, but also mixes in the line ups...

The new HMoM in Ashan also follows trends, BUT they do not change faction names, and stick to the main themes of factions. I appreciate that and I am happy to see some new creatures with each new HMoM game...

No dude, I played all games (your guess is totally off = your analytical/critical thinking is nonexistant). And I played a lot (especially H2, H3, H5) and the diference between factions in them is really negligible compared to what H6 have done. I did not liked H4 all that much as well because they messed up factions (necro with inferno) and warlocks have been just bunch of creatures mangled together. I am tired to argue about this with people who cant develop most simple thought pattern in their heads. Respecting franchise history is main thing that keeps old fans. New people dont really care as whole game is new for them anyway. You will perhaps understant it one day. I am done here.

Wikist
11-03-2014, 10:16 PM
I think it's just one point of view. While you have some right of course, it apllies only to people like you. And people like you doesn't mean fans of M&M titles, because some of them like Ashan, so we can't say that every fan is in bad mood about it like you.

I played only 3,4,5 and 6. I wanted to play 1 and 2 but it turned out to be too old for my computer. :P I like Ashan, because it's simple. It offers you everything what you would suspect: holy, light knights; demons; dwarfs etc. In old universe all could happended, for example Forge town that was supposed to be in place of conflux in Heroes III. So we would have cyborg goblins, naga tanks and so on. It was some kind of charm of this old universe, yes. But it's personal if you like to mix medival fantasy game with science-fiction or not. Plus I really see that they try to make this world even reacher and reacher like "Tales of the Ten Years War" on Heroes VII page.

Every universe has it's own + and -. But you need to know that current Ashan universe doesn't delete the old world completly. They are making signs in many M&M games now like M&MX Legacy showing old universe references. So it's more like Ashan is just another world in the M&M universe that never changed. Erathia is on another planet and Ashan on another. And as we speak about references to old M&M titles I would like to remind you about bringing back creatures from the old times. They will propably bring back Behemot in HVII (maybe only in vote for line-up), they come up with Troglodytes and Medusas in Dungeon line-up vote, in M&M Duel of champions there are cards that represents gnolls or efreets. They even put Phoenix in Sylvan line-up vote just for the nostalgia of old fans (I think), what was idiotic for me, because in Ashan it really doesn't fit in my opinion. Secondly I would like to inform you that we have already bone dragon, zombie, death knight, devil, phoenix, manticore, beholder (it has now completly new design but for me it's better, more magical), medusa, harpy in Ashan universe.

So we are not cut of from the old universe. If you would like to have every Heroes with same line-up then it will just be bad for the game itself, because I think more players want to have diversity in towns between diffrent Heroes tiltes (from what I have seen, so it's my opinion). We have creatures from old universe in Ashan, so if they just would be able to afford adding them all to one title (read have enough money) they could do this, but they need to limit many things if they want to create good title with the cash that they have for it. They could do something like every faction have more line-ups or town screens (for example you could choose Haven as your starting city and after this you could choose which duchy you would like to play) or make alternative upgrades like in Heroes V, but they can't afford that. They even couldn't do 3D town screens because of money problems.

And additionally I wanted to point out that matrix have some right. If Orcs and Wizards are desert shaped we will have less diversity.

Haven - grasslands
Academy - desert
Stronghold- desert
Necropolis - deadlands
Sylvan - lush forest (not tropical)
Dungeon - underground

So it's mainly grasslands, desert, lush forest and deadlands. Underground would be implemented even without a faction for it. Little. I hope they will add more even without faction for such environment like lava type or already shown snow type that will be implemeted. It would be nice if they add such types, but it won't substitute city environment. Two deserts concepts seem poor when you want to identificate with your faction. Of course I like sahaar orcs and the fact that we have many diffrent types of one race but I kinda fear about less diversity, that can affect game quite much.

logical.dust
11-21-2014, 09:32 PM
@ wikist : Well I dont mind ashan at all. But what I dont like is mixing it with old universe. They could make it completely fresh without even single unit from older sequels and I wouldnt say a single word. Problem is that ubi tries to sell something under the name of something else. Similar game without past lore would sell like ice in the winter. They know that they need to keep some classic part for the sake of continuity, but they insist on changing it to ashan universe so they do it step at a time, whiping out old lore. So I want to buy game because it reminds me old heroes, but I am being slaped to the face .. no no you cant have it ... it will be our way. Thats demented approach to old fans/customers. They tried it in H6, they failed completely - seriously - I would fire whole management and directors who were responsible, but instead it was blamed to BH and management stayed to continue their marvel in H7. If you look to art its amazing, but its the initial design choices that sucks very hard (work of ubi creative directors).

Eugene_Xaar
01-30-2015, 08:49 PM
When we see a Basilisk from Sahaar? ;)http://oi58.tinypic.com/2wqzgc3.jpg

MLT_TheaElyra
01-31-2015, 04:49 PM
Am I the only one that actually like the idea of the Sahaar Stronghold? It fits geograhically, lore-wise, and a lot of the creatures could look really cool with a desert/beduin sort of look to them. I like a lot of the art that Eugene_Xaar posted actually, even if it's from other sources than H7. I do agree that there's an apparent overlap between Academy and Stronghold in terms of theme (both desert-based), but if Stronghold goes down a grittier, more savage route, I do think they'll turn out to contrast each other nicely. Here's for hoping the behemoth, pao-kai and gnoll all appear! (I've really missed the gnolls!)