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SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 12:59 PM
It has been confirmed!

"If you play through the entire game and do a lot of exploring, quests and all that stuff, you can get all the skill points because all of the skills represent a MASTER assassin. So of course if you do a lot of stuff, you can become a MASTER assassin".

YES!!! This is exactly what i've been saying from the start!! To become a true master assassin you should be able to unlock all the skills.

The sound is a little bad. Alex Amancio confirms it at around 1.10


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIeeCboi9cM

ze_topazio
08-17-2014, 01:20 PM
I bet there's a trophy/achievement for it.

SixKeys
08-17-2014, 01:22 PM
I already suspected this, but I'm sure other people will be happy to hear it.

I don't really understand why we have to become a master assassin in every game though. Edward was refreshing because he didn't even officially become an assassin until the end of the game. He was technically a novice by the time his story was over. I've already played as three master assassins (Alta´r, Ezio and Connor), I wouldn't mind just playing as a regular assassin taking orders from his superiors.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 01:29 PM
I already suspected this, but I'm sure other people will be happy to hear it.

I'm very happy! This news made my day!! I just came home from Guardians of the Galaxy (which was amazing!) and i found this video. Today is a great day!

Fatal-Feit
08-17-2014, 01:30 PM
Thank god.

Sushiglutton
08-17-2014, 01:32 PM
Good news, even though that was expected to me as well :). I mean after all that's how it worked in FarCry3. It makes a lot more sense to distinguish players with the gear instead of locking some gameplay mechanics away.



I already suspected this, but I'm sure other people will be happy to hear it.

I don't really understand why we have to become a master assassin in every game though. Edward was refreshing because he didn't even officially become an assassin until the end of the game. He was technically a novice by the time his story was over. I've already played as three master assassins (Alta´r, Ezio and Connor), I wouldn't mind just playing as a regular assassin taking orders from his superiors.


You mean like this:

http://media.tumblr.com/69c6b087d18779c1f619bb01e75e8a99/tumblr_na78saZ9js1tg0qzpo1_500.gif

trainkun0908
08-17-2014, 01:35 PM
Yeaaaa!!! I like this!

Sixkeys, technically Edward is a Master Assassin in terms of skill and abilities, he just didn't receive the title yet. Look at his skillset: captain of one of the most powerful warships in the carribean, taking down multiple man of wars and those legendary ships. Commander of an entire fleet, expanding trade across the Atlantic Ocean. Assassin, assassinating multiple targets in various scenarios. Fighter, taking down many types of enemy fighters during his time in the Carribean and mastering all the weapons he has at his disposal.

Of course he is a different type of Master Assassin than the others, but he is still IMO a Master Assassin.

SixKeys
08-17-2014, 01:42 PM
You mean like this:

http://media.tumblr.com/69c6b087d18779c1f619bb01e75e8a99/tumblr_na78saZ9js1tg0qzpo1_500.gif

Yes, like that. And I want Arno to stay a subordinate until the end of the game. Not become the leader or mentor or whatever.


Yeaaaa!!! I like this!

Sixkeys, technically Edward is a Master Assassin in terms of skill and abilities, he just didn't receive the title yet. Look at his skillset: captain of one of the most powerful warships in the carribean, taking down multiple man of wars and those legendary ships. Commander of an entire fleet, expanding trade across the Atlantic Ocean. Assassin, assassinating multiple targets in various scenarios. Fighter, taking down many types of enemy fighters during his time in the Carribean and mastering all the weapons he has at his disposal.

Of course he is a different type of Master Assassin than the others, but he is still IMO a Master Assassin.

Master assassin is a title, not an estimation of the person's skills. Alta´r was a master assassin at the very beginning of AC1 since he had all the skills and weapons that are then stripped away from the player. Al Mualim, as the head of the Order, determined that he be treated as a novice despite his level of skill until he prove his worth. Similarly, Edward may have been a very skilled assassin by the end of AC4, but he wasn't officially promoted to the rank of master assassin.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 02:31 PM
Edward may have been a very skilled assassin by the end of AC4, but he wasn't officially promoted to the rank of master assassin.

Nevertheless Edward had the skills of a master assassin.

It makes sense that ubisoft chose this path and i'm glad they did!

HoIcon
08-17-2014, 02:32 PM
Glad to hear this, it annoys me in games when you can't get all the skills when you feel you should be able to
like in the Witcher games, you play as this living legend of a Witcher but he is incapable of learning all the Witcher skills as you only get enough skill points to fill in one branch of the skill tree

Fatal-Feit
08-17-2014, 03:00 PM
I hated the limitations in Fallout and Skyrim as well. It's a good thing we had mods. (although they uncapped it in later DLC/updates for both titles)

SpiritOfNevaeh
08-17-2014, 03:01 PM
Sweet! Thanks for posting.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 03:12 PM
Sweet! Thanks for posting.

You're welcome!

jayjay275
08-17-2014, 03:15 PM
I think this is pretty cool . :-)

Dome500
08-17-2014, 03:18 PM
Okay that's it, lost my interest in the skills.
Not in the game mind you - but in the skills.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 03:22 PM
Okay that's it, lost my interest in the skills.
Not in the game mind you - but in the skills.

This news made me even more excited for the game!!

THE_JOKE_KING33
08-17-2014, 03:32 PM
(I doubt there will be but) Do you think there will be a New Game+ of some kind? I love NG+ for when I beat the story, I like to run through it again fully upgraded and steamroll the people who gave me a hard time early on. >:)

Kayewla
08-17-2014, 03:37 PM
Okay that's it, lost my interest in the skills.
Not in the game mind you - but in the skills.

Same here. There will be less thought put into the player's choice of skills and less emphasis on the player's individual style. Why not a system like in Payday 2 - where you personalise your character to a much greater extent and you are able to reward yourself with skills you find suitable to your play style. I'd rather have us gain the title of Master Assassin due to our achievements as an Assassin, not because of the amount of skills we are proficient in. Instead we will all become "Master Assassins" who have perfected every single aspect of the trade.

Let's not forget how this might also affect the co-op experience. Then again, there's no doubt the game will be excellent and enjoyable either way.

FourDea123
08-17-2014, 03:44 PM
To the people saying it destroys player individuality. you still have the clothing options ot tailor to your play style so theirs that also considering how much side content these games have this is most likely for completionists not every average jojo

Dev_Anj
08-17-2014, 03:56 PM
It's nice that they want the player to be free to experiment with his/her skills, but I feel that allowing all or most of the skills to be maximized would cause situations like in Deus Ex: Human Revolution, where most players were overpowered by the end. It could also trivialize the level design and the enemy placement in the later sections.

What I'm most interested to know about though, is how these skills work. Do they make it harder to pick locks, hide in crowds, pick pockets etc.? Are some of these skills mutually exclusive? Will they be used as checks while trying to infiltrate levels? It'd be nice to see how these skills will change the player's possible approaches.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 04:18 PM
Same here. There will be less thought put into the player's choice of skills and less emphasis on the player's individual style. Why not a system like in Payday 2 - where you personalise your character to a much greater extent and you are able to reward yourself with skills you find suitable to your play style. I'd rather have us gain the title of Master Assassin due to our achievements as an Assassin, not because of the amount of skills we are proficient in. Instead we will all become "Master Assassins" who have perfected every single aspect of the trade.

Of course you still have to think about what skills you want. Not everyone will unlock all the skills. You will only be able to unlock all skills if you play through the entire game, do a lot of exploring and complete the side quests. Not a lot of people do all those things. So no, not everyone will become a master assassin.


Let's not forget how this might also affect the co-op experience.

Not everyone will play co-op.

JustPlainQuirky
08-17-2014, 04:23 PM
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES

Mi so happeh

HoIcon
08-17-2014, 04:39 PM
Of course you still have to think about what skills you want. Not everyone will unlock all the skills. You will only be able to unlock all skills if you play through the entire game, do a lot of exploring and complete the side quests. Not a lot of people do all those things. So no, not everyone will become a master assassin.



Not everyone will play co-op.


I'm going to do EVERYTHING!! :D

SlyTrooper
08-17-2014, 04:44 PM
I'm not sure how I feel. Part of me wanted this because I like to upgrade myself fully, but another part of me wanted it to be limited for more individual play styles. I suppose the gear will satisfy the latter part of me and the skills will satisfy the former part of me.

GoldenBoy9999
08-17-2014, 05:04 PM
I'm not sure how I feel. Part of me wanted this because I like to upgrade myself fully, but another part of me wanted it to be limited for more individual play styles. I suppose the gear will satisfy the latter part of me and the skills will satisfy the former part of me.

I'm kind of skeptical on this also. I'm a major completionist so I like to have everything out there, but the other side of me wants more different playstyles other than what the gear gives you. When I watch youtube videos of people playing it, it'd be cool to see someone completely different than someone the same as me like the last 6 games. They spoke of when playing co-op someone could be your sneaker, another your combat person and so on. This will be lessened now if all your friends play a good amount because the only difference between you will be your skill buffs.

I guess I just wanted the feeling of, I better not get into combat because my character is stealth based.

TheIronLotus420
08-17-2014, 05:04 PM
I'm super excited to hear that we will be able to max out all of our skills. Knowing me, I would just HAVE to play through the entire game again JUST to unlock the couple I couldn't the previous time, to see how they work. That said, I think all of the new gear with the numerous stats tied in to each piece, will make your experience unique from other peoples.

For example, imagine this scenario:

My friend and I are playing co-op together, and we both have maxed out Master Assassins. That means we could each be able to lock pick any entrance, climb to any point using parkour, or be able to use any weapon knowing all of the attacks (e.g. heavy attack w/ axe, sweep attack w/ spear). But say I prefer a stealth build, so my gear is completely stealthy with good blending etc., but does not have much armor for handling tough combat. My friend, though, prefers the Rambo approach, and his gear is heavy armor, but he cannot be stealthy in a crowd.

In this situation, even though I know the skills to be a combat master, it would still be unwise of me to barge in the front door guns blazing since I would probably get killed pretty quick. The system still favors me to play stealthily and my friend to play aggressively. I would probably still be the one to sneak in through a locked entrance up above, while my friend is on the ground distracting guards elsewhere. It's just that, I believe, say I get spotted when trying to be stealthy, I might have a better chance at surviving because I have a good security blanket for combat since I have all the skills unlocked.

GoldenBoy9999
08-17-2014, 05:09 PM
@TheIronLotus420 That makes a lot of sense. I'm excited now:D

SlyTrooper
08-17-2014, 05:13 PM
I'm kind of skeptical on this also. I'm a major completionist so I like to have everything out there, but the other side of me wants more different playstyles other than what the gear gives you. When I watch youtube videos of people playing it, it'd be cool to see someone completely different than someone the same as me like the last 6 games. They spoke of when playing co-op someone could be your sneaker, another your combat person and so on. This will be lessened now if all your friends play a good amount because the only difference between you will be your skill buffs.

I guess I just wanted the feeling of, I better not get into combat because my character is stealth based.

Luckily for me, I doubt my mates will be dedicated enough to get them all. Still, I might play with some random people if they're not online.

@TheIronLotus420 - That makes me happier about Ubi's decision :)

TheIronLotus420
08-17-2014, 05:18 PM
@TheIronLotus420 That makes a lot of sense. I'm excited now:D

It's really interesting because even though we know all about gear and customizations, we don't really know many specifics. Like, how many stats are there per item. 4? 8? Even more? 10+? Will there be a "best gear item" for each category, like a hood with maxed out everything and all stats, or just a best hood for stealth, with maxed out stealth stats. I hope it's the latter, that way, each person would still have a very specific build, but we would be able to change our play style on the fly if we had enough of the gear unlocked.

I think of skills as an assassin's abilities, his "toolbox" if you will. One assassin would be able to teach Arno a certain parkour move, or specific weapon attack, with enough time and practice. But that assassin wouldn't dictate HOW Arno uses his tools at his disposal. That's what the gear is for: to specialize the experience for different play styles.

AherasSTRG
08-17-2014, 05:31 PM
And there I thought Unity actually had something more to offer than the previous games where character progression was concerned... Sync points and skills now have much lower gameplay value in CO-OP, since they are all unlocked in the end. The order in which you unlock them does not matter either, just like Watch Dogs, Tomb Raider, Metal Gear Rising Revengeance and other such games. So, you can cross Stealth, Navigation and Combat skills from the "Deep Customisation of Arno", since this is neither costumisation, nor uniqueness deriving from character progression. Great potential lost. Potential which was greatly implemented in other games, like Borderlands 2 and Payday... A total waste of potential.

Will gear alone make our character feel unique as TheIronLotus implies? I have yet to see a game that has achieved that, crafting uniqueness through gear alone.

PS: The main argument raised by most people in this thread is that they are happy about being able to unlock all skills, since they won't have to restart the game to check out the other skills. With all due respect, this argument is dumb. Games in which you "spec" (specialise) in a certain set of skills, also allow you to "respec" in another combo whenever you feel like it. So, you can still change your playstyle and check out all the skills within the same day numerous times, without having to change your save slot.

PS#2: Another argument I see is that "a Master Assassin should know all of these skills". Another [whatever] argument with which, as a fan of fantasy, RPG video games and a yearlong follower of the Assassin's Creed series cannot but discard.

Overall, really disappointed by this design decision. My expectations for the customisation dropped dramatically and I arm myself before I get more disappointed when the full briefing for the Gear comes out.

CalvyB
08-17-2014, 05:37 PM
I kinda hate games where you can effectively become a master of all trades as I often feel it makes the whole skill system pointless after a certain point in the game.

that is in part down to what exactly those skills are though and whether or not they have any real impact on gameplay.

one of the worst examples I've played recently would be the last tomb raider. where you have skills such as scavenge and recycle allowing you to reuse old arrows and stuff only to find that about 1/4 of the through the game you get to a point where you never run out of ammo. and by the time you're half way through you are quite literally just unlocking anything cos they have such a minimal impact on game play. and the entire system feels pointless. it's not just tomb raider it's qute a few games. including watchdogs.

it'd kinda be nice to see the skills you choose change the path you take through the story.a simple example would be lock picking skills and free climbing skills such as the jump and grab. if you have to sneak into a building and assassinate a target. the path options you take should be limited by the skills you have. if you don't have free climbing skills you cant climb up and enter through the roof to get to your target. just as if you don't have lock picking skills you can't unlock and sneak in an unguarded entrance. and a similar thing for an exit the ability to hold your breath longer underwater might open an alternative escape route for example.

this kinda fits in with what some people have said above it'd create a game that is different for everyone. for example the path I take through a mission might be impossible for you or the path you take might be impossible for me. that would be awesome.

what I hate is games where the skills don't work like this. and where all options are open no matter what skills you choose. as this typically makes your skills feel worthless. aka watchdogs crafting skills are useless when you can buy everything from tobias and combat skills don't make a huge difference in whether or not you can fight you're way through an area...

1 or 2 of the hacking skills may open or close certain escape routes but that's about it. the skills had a minimal impact on gameplay. and as such felt largely worthless....

AherasSTRG
08-17-2014, 05:37 PM
Of course you still have to think about what skills you want. Not everyone will unlock all the skills. You will only be able to unlock all skills if you play through the entire game, do a lot of exploring and complete the side quests. Not a lot of people do all those things. So no, not everyone will become a master assassin.

So, basically, you mean that there are people that are going to buy the game spending 60$+, but will not occupy themselves enough with finishing it?

As a serious person who values their money and a gamer, I judge a design decision in its full application: from the beginning of the game to its end. And in its full application, this is NOT customisation, nor uniqueness, this is just another unlock system, in which it makes no difference when to unlock each skill. Hell, I am sure the in-game skills tree is going to look EXACTLY like this:

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140416172324/watchdogscombined/images/1/19/Skills_Tree-WatchDogs.png

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 06:12 PM
And there I thought Unity actually had something more to offer than the previous games where character progression was concerned... Sync points and skills now have much lower gameplay value in CO-OP, since they are all unlocked in the end. The order in which you unlock them does not matter either, just like Watch Dogs, Tomb Raider, Metal Gear Rising Revengeance and other such games. So, you can cross Stealth, Navigation and Combat skills from the "Deep Customisation of Arno", since this is neither costumisation, nor uniqueness deriving from character progression. Great potential lost. Potential which was greatly implemented in other games, like Borderlands 2 and Payday... A total waste of potential.

Will gear alone make our character feel unique as TheIronLotus implies? I have yet to see a game that has achieved that, crafting uniqueness through gear alone.

PS: The main argument raised by most people in this thread is that they are happy about being able to unlock all skills, since they won't have to restart the game to check out the other skills. With all due respect, this argument is dumb. Games in which you "spec" (specialise) in a certain set of skills, also allow you to "respec" in another combo whenever you feel like it. So, you can still change your playstyle and check out all the skills within the same day numerous times, without having to change your save slot.

PS#2: Another argument I see is that "a Master Assassin should know all of these skills". Another [whatever] argument with which, as a fan of fantasy, RPG video games and a yearlong follower of the Assassin's Creed series cannot but discard.

Overall, really disappointed by this design decision. My expectations for the customisation dropped dramatically and I arm myself before I get more disappointed when the full briefing for the Gear comes out.

apparently you don't realize that you still take different skill paths at the start that will differentiate you from other players, and that there are certain skills that you can only use at a single time in co-op. You can't have all the co-op skills at once, you have to choose one of them to take for the mission. Not to mention the different weapons and just personal playstyles.

AherasSTRG
08-17-2014, 06:15 PM
apparently you don't realize that you still take different skill paths at the start that will differentiate you from other players, and that there are certain skills that you can only use at a single time in co-op. You can't have all the co-op skills at once, you have to choose one of them to take for the mission. Not to mention the different weapons and just personal playstyles.

I have already covered the "different paths" at the beginning of the game and the different gear elements in my above posts.

However, confirmation that you can take only 1 skill with you in every mission and I delete my posts.

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 06:21 PM
Well, there are different co-op skills.

One is disguise/morph, one is revive, one is communal sense, etc. I'm not sure how many co-op skills there are.

Confirmation of something like this is in one of the GameInformer things, let me find the quote...


Before we started our mission, they asked what special skills we'd like to bring into the game. I picked the morph ability, which let me assume the identity of an NPC to temporarily blend into the crowd. What did you end up grabbing? I didn't see you transform into a Paul Revere look-alike, so I'm assuming you went a different route.
Kim: I took communal sense, which shares the entire map. There's also one that lets you hold more consumables I believe. I'll be interested to see if these few perks end up being important or not. Yours seemed beneficial. Communal sense made navigating a bit easier, but I wouldn't say it was the greatest perk for our mission.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2014/08/11/assassins-unite-our-hands-on-impressions-of-assassin-s-creed-unity.aspx

Kayewla
08-17-2014, 06:21 PM
@Aheradrim. My thoughts exactly. You pretty much went all the way with what I was trying to say. And it's not even necessarily about immersiveness and feeling unique but actually the gameplay aspect of being unique, especially in a game that has co-op as a main feature and selling point.

Ureh
08-17-2014, 06:24 PM
For sp it's all right cause we can just choose not to spend some of our points if we want to be a specialist.

Megas_Doux
08-17-2014, 06:26 PM
One question!!!!!

Are these skills automatically unlocked as long as you get the points??? Or do you have to buy them????

I prefer the latter!

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 06:29 PM
You have to realize this isn't an RPG. The goal isn't to create an actual unique character with a different skillset from other players. It's an action/adventure game that wants to give people the freedom to choose what they want to focus on, but they don't want to stop people from becoming amazing at everything if they want to do that.

In the end, I don't really care about being unique, I just care about having a skillset I like and having an aesthetic that I like. I like being able to unlock all of the skills in action/adventure games. In fact, the only time I really like having to choose some skills over another is if I'm creating the character myself.

Also, if you wouldn't be able to unlock all of the skills in the game I'd be pissed because it isn't aligning to the lore of the story, where the skills would all have to come from Arno's memories because they're things he was able to do at some point, and if we couldn't get all of Arno's skills by achieving 100% synchronization with Arno that would be... well it would be stupid and illogical.

If the fan response is large enough though, they could always make it that they limit you to a certain amount of sync points in co-op, since that's really what you guys are concerned about, not the single player experience.

AherasSTRG
08-17-2014, 06:30 PM
Well, there are different co-op skills.

One is disguise/morph, one is revive, one is communal sense, etc. I'm not sure how many co-op skills there are.

Confirmation of something like this is in one of the GameInformer things, let me find the quote...

Sorry, Jexx, you know I love you, but I am not convinced yet. If it turns out that in fact, you do take only one skill with you, then I will take back most of what I said up there. But, for the time being, I believe that unlocking all the skills really takes away from the feeling of a unique assassin.

@TheBlindGuest Yep, pretty much what you say. But I disagree on CO-OP being the main feature. Main selling point, yeah, but, not main feature. The game mostly emphasizes in the single-player aspect imo. Welcome to the forums btw.

AherasSTRG
08-17-2014, 06:32 PM
You have to realize this isn't an RPG. The goal isn't to create an actual unique character with a different skillset from other players. It's an action/adventure game that wants to give people the freedom to choose what they want to focus on, but they don't want to stop people from becoming amazing at everything if they want to do that.

In the end, I don't really care about being unique, I just care about having a skillset I like and having an aesthetic that I like. I like being able to unlock all of the skills in action/adventure games. In fact, the only time I really like having to choose some skills over another is if I'm creating the character myself.

Also, if you wouldn't be able to unlock all of the skills in the game I'd be pissed because it isn't aligning to the lore of the story, where the skills would all have to come from Arno's memories because they're things he was able to do at some point, and if we couldn't get all of Arno's skills by achieving 100% synchronization with Arno that would be... well it would be stupid and illogical.

If the fan response is large enough though, they could always make it that they limit you to a certain amount of sync points in co-op, since that's really what you guys are concerned about, not the single player experience.

Fair enough.

Megas_Doux
08-17-2014, 06:35 PM
Does somebody know if these skills are automatically unlocked as long as you get the points??? Or do you have to buy them????

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 06:37 PM
Sorry, Jexx, you know I love you, but I am not convinced yet. If it turns out that in fact, you do take only one skill with you, then I will take back most of what I said up there. But, for the time being, I believe that unlocking all the skills really takes away from the feeling of a unique assassin.

@TheBlindGuest Yep, pretty much what you say. But I disagree on CO-OP being the main feature. Main selling point, yeah, but, not main feature. The game mostly emphasizes in the single-player aspect imo. Welcome to the forums btw.

That's the thing, we aren't really supposed to be creating a "unique Assassin." We're progressing Arno. Yes, we can take different paths as Arno, but if you do all of the content, in the end, you're going to be Arno, the Master Assassin.

The way I see it is like this. In AC2, you can choose when you're going to do all of the content and how. But doing things in a different order from Ezio actually did doesn't change his overall story, and by the time you complete all the side content, well you complete ALL of the side content.

In Unity, you can choose which side content to do and when to do it and how, and by doing that you gain sync points that you can put into your skills. But, if you do all of the side content by the end, you will do ALL of the side content and get ALL of the sync points, allowing you to get all of the skills.

In the end, you're still playing as a specific character with a specific story and a specific set of skills (which is.. all of them :P).

rupok2
08-17-2014, 06:40 PM
Let me guess, for the low price of $19.99 you can buy all your skills from the start!

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 06:50 PM
One question!!!!!

Are these skills automatically unlocked as long as you get the points??? Or do you have to buy them????

I prefer the latter!

You have to buy them. You will need different amount of skill points to unlock specific skills.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 06:52 PM
So, basically, you mean that there are people that are going to buy the game spending 60$+, but will not occupy themselves enough with finishing it?

Is this a serious question? Not everyone completes the game 100%.

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 06:52 PM
There are a large amount of people that don't even complete the story sections.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 06:56 PM
There are a large amount of people that don't even complete the story sections.

Exactly. In order to unlock all the skill points you will have to complete not only the story, but a lot of side quests and do a lot of exploring. Not everyone will become a master assassin.

LoyalACFan
08-17-2014, 07:01 PM
And there I thought Unity actually had something more to offer than the previous games where character progression was concerned... Sync points and skills now have much lower gameplay value in CO-OP, since they are all unlocked in the end. The order in which you unlock them does not matter either, just like Watch Dogs, Tomb Raider, Metal Gear Rising Revengeance and other such games. So, you can cross Stealth, Navigation and Combat skills from the "Deep Customisation of Arno", since this is neither costumisation, nor uniqueness deriving from character progression. Great potential lost. Potential which was greatly implemented in other games, like Borderlands 2 and Payday... A total waste of potential.

Will gear alone make our character feel unique as TheIronLotus implies? I have yet to see a game that has achieved that, crafting uniqueness through gear alone.

PS: The main argument raised by most people in this thread is that they are happy about being able to unlock all skills, since they won't have to restart the game to check out the other skills. With all due respect, this argument is dumb. Games in which you "spec" (specialise) in a certain set of skills, also allow you to "respec" in another combo whenever you feel like it. So, you can still change your playstyle and check out all the skills within the same day numerous times, without having to change your save slot.

PS#2: Another argument I see is that "a Master Assassin should know all of these skills". Another [whatever] argument with which, as a fan of fantasy, RPG video games and a yearlong follower of the Assassin's Creed series cannot but discard.

Overall, really disappointed by this design decision. My expectations for the customisation dropped dramatically and I arm myself before I get more disappointed when the full briefing for the Gear comes out.

You know, you don't HAVE to specialize in everything if you don't want to. Nobody is going to pop into your game and force you to spend the skill points. If you want to turn Arno into a stealth master, or a sniper, or a brute, that's your prerogative. Having the ability to ultimately acquire everything doesn't keep you from it, but it's good to have for the rest of us who don't want to be pigeonholed into one skill forever.

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 07:02 PM
Aheradrim, if you join the UbiForums group, I could schedule an event where we'll limit people to a certain amount of sync points and have co-op games using only that amount of sync points. That way, as players, we could get around this issue for you and others.

I'll probably end up getting Unity on both PC and PS4, but I might end up selling my PS4 copy shortly after I get my PC copy depending on how often I play (or do not play) with other people on PS4.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 07:18 PM
You know, you don't HAVE to specialize in everything if you don't want to. Nobody is going to pop into your game and force you to spend the skill points. If you want to turn Arno into a stealth master, or a sniper, or a brute, that's your prerogative. Having the ability to ultimately acquire everything doesn't keep you from it, but it's good to have for the rest of us who don't want to be pigeonholed into one skill forever.

lol. Nicely said.

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 07:22 PM
Ewww how disappointing and unrealistic.

Fatal-Feit
08-17-2014, 07:27 PM
To be fair, Unity have already been breaking off a lot of realism. For one, eagle pulse shouldn't be viable for other party members. And two, the disguise skill is the same thing as morphing in consecutive MP.

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 07:30 PM
To be fair, Unity have already been breaking off a lot of realism. For one, eagle pulse shouldn't be viable for other party members. And two, the disguise skill is the same thing as morphing in consecutive MP.

Shhh shhh shhhh shhh -finger to your lips-

Go grab me a drink Alpaca. Make it strong.

I didn't care for those either btw, I've talked to death about why I wanted restrictions so I won't go into it again you all know already ;P

Assassin_M
08-17-2014, 07:30 PM
It's funny how some people are saying "you don't HAVE to specialize in everything if you don't want to" but jump on the optional objectives even though "you don't HAVE to complete them if you don't want to"

I can see the arguments on both sides, it's exactly like the optional objectives debacle--but again, for me it wont really matter because I really don't HAVE to get everything--I didn't get everything in Watch Dogs and I wont get everything here.

SixKeys
08-17-2014, 07:38 PM
It's funny how some people are saying "you don't HAVE to specialize in everything if you don't want to" but jump on the optional objectives even though "you don't HAVE to complete them if you don't want to"

I can see the arguments on both sides, it's exactly like the optional objectives debacle--but again, for me it wont really matter because I really don't HAVE to get everything--I didn't get everything in Watch Dogs and I wont get everything here.

Maybe because the skills system probably won't pop up a notification on your screen in every mission saying: "HEY! LISTEN! If you don't use all these extra points you haven't really completed the game!"

Assassin_M
08-17-2014, 07:41 PM
Maybe because the skills system probably won't pop up a notification on your screen in every mission saying: "HEY! LISTEN! If you don't use all these extra points you haven't really completed the game!"
Oh no? well, neither did the optional objectives...

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 07:41 PM
Maybe because the skills system probably won't pop up a notification on your screen in every mission saying: "HEY! LISTEN! If you don't use all these extra points you haven't really completed the game!"

It doesn't need to. I'll probably auto feel that. I'm going to feel obligated to do it... I'm an MMORPG player it's in my blood to collect all of the skills, I'd be stupid not to collect all the skills, I mean they're available, hanging right in my face, all I have to do is mindlessly grab them.

LoyalACFan
08-17-2014, 07:43 PM
It's funny how some people are saying "you don't HAVE to specialize in everything if you don't want to" but jump on the optional objectives even though "you don't HAVE to complete them if you don't want to"

I can see the arguments on both sides, it's exactly like the optional objectives debacle--but again, for me it wont really matter because I really don't HAVE to get everything--I didn't get everything in Watch Dogs and I wont get everything here.

It's different because full sync unlocks other, unrelated content. I don't want to play the game one specific way, but I do want the story content/Animus hacks hidden behind the sync constraints. Whereas if you don't want to specialize in everything in Unity... then don't. The only thing you might miss out on is a trophy/achievement, assuming they even have one for that. If there were bonus missions or something unlocked by obtaining every skill, then yes, that would be problematic, but as it is it's not really the same argument as the one against full sync.

Assassin_M
08-17-2014, 07:44 PM
It doesn't need to. I'll probably auto feel that. I'm going to feel obligated to do it.
^This. If a simple red X on your screen makes you feel like you failed or did not complete the game, then i'm pretty sure a few mentions of skill upgrades and looking at the half empty tree will make you feel like your game is not complete.

Assassin_M
08-17-2014, 07:46 PM
It's different because full sync unlocks other, unrelated content. I don't want to play the game one specific way, but I do want the story content/Animus hacks hidden behind the sync constraints. Whereas if you don't want to specialize in everything in Unity... then don't. The only thing you might miss out on is a trophy/achievement, assuming they even have one for that. If there were bonus missions or something unlocked by obtaining every skill, then yes, that would be problematic, but as it is it's not really the same argument as the one against full sync.
What do you get for full sync in each game? ACB: Cristina missions (just needs a few 100%) ACR: Nothing at all. AC III: Altair's outfit (which sucked) AC IV: Nothing.

It can also be argued that skills ARE unlocks and players want them..it's like infamous second son's tree. "but I want that coolass attack in the evil kharma tree"

Megas_Doux
08-17-2014, 07:47 PM
You have to buy them. You will need different amount of skill points to unlock specific skills.

GREAT news!!!

Thanks!

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 07:50 PM
GREAT news!!!

Thanks!

You're welcome!

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 07:51 PM
^This. If a simple red X on your screen makes you feel like you failed or did not complete the game, then i'm pretty sure a few mentions of skill upgrades and looking at the half empty tree will make you feel like your game is not complete.

Indeed, worse for players that play co-op too, you're obligated to be at top form, everyone else will likely be able to switch builds around, you'll be expected to be able to do the same so that's two possible obligations.

MickyDaLips
08-17-2014, 08:05 PM
Indeed, worse for players that play co-op too, you're obligated to be at top form, everyone else will likely be able to switch builds around, you'll be expected to be able to do the same so that's two possible obligations.

Not me and my mates, the game will be on to see who will be the first to mess the stealth up, not through having a rambo mindset, just thru sheer inadequacy :D

I have to say I was against this being able to maximise everything, but. hold on to your hats, some well argued points have made me change my mind, is this a first for da intawebz?

I'm pleased in co-op we can't take a 'do everything' build/loadout tho

LoyalACFan
08-17-2014, 08:06 PM
What do you get for full sync in each game? ACB: Cristina missions (just needs a few 100%) ACR: Nothing at all. AC III: Altair's outfit (which sucked) AC IV: Nothing.

It can also be argued that skills ARE unlocks and players want them..it's like infamous second son's tree. "but I want that coolass attack in the evil kharma tree"

Technically the Cristina missions needed you to do half the game in full sync since the last one unlocked at 75%. ACR kind of tricked you into thinking full sync would give you something since ACB did, so that's just as bad. How the hell were we supposed to know AC3's Altair outfit would suck? And AC4 gave you cheats that were actually really fun to mess around with.

I don't understand your second point about Infamous. It sounds like you're making the same argument I am. "I'm a good Cole so I'm locked out of getting that one evil Cole power I want" is the same thing as "I've used all my skill points on stealth upgrades so now I can never get that one parkour move I want." That's why it's a good thing we can get all the skills; get the ones you want, neglect the ones you don't. And another thing; even if you do buy all the skills, fully max out your character and everything, you don't have to USE all the skills...

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 08:16 PM
Technically the Cristina missions needed you to do half the game in full sync since the last one unlocked at 75%. ACR kind of tricked you into thinking full sync would give you something since ACB did, so that's just as bad. How the hell were we supposed to know AC3's Altair outfit would suck? And AC4 gave you cheats that were actually really fun to mess around with.

I don't understand your second point about Infamous. It sounds like you're making the same argument I am. "I'm a good Cole so I'm locked out of getting that one evil Cole power I want" is the same thing as "I've used all my skill points on stealth upgrades so now I can never get that one parkour move I want." That's why it's a good thing we can get all the skills; get the ones you want, neglect the ones you don't. And another thing; even if you do buy all the skills, fully max out your character and everything, you don't have to USE all the skills...

I had to steal this from Naruto Forums...

http://i.imgur.com/hbNJ6C0.png

Yes, yes you do, there's no reason NOT to. None.

Btw the good/evil stuff is there to add a little choice and make it slightly more interesting since you can't just do everything.

LoyalACFan
08-17-2014, 08:21 PM
I had to steal this from Naruto Forums...

http://i.imgur.com/hbNJ6C0.png

Yes, yes you do, there's no reason NOT to. None.

I bought the semi-automatic pistol in RDR and never fired a single shot from it. I bought all the swords in Black Flag, never used about half of them. Maxed out the skill tree in Infamous, completely disregarded about a third of my powers. I see no reason why I should feel compelled to use everything I have unless A). it's fun, or B). it makes things easier.

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 08:25 PM
I bought the semi-automatic pistol in RDR and never fired a single shot from it. I bought all the swords in Black Flag, never used about half of them. Maxed out the skill tree in Infamous, completely disregarded about a third of my powers. I see no reason why I should feel compelled to use everything I have unless A). it's fun, or B). it makes things easier.

I highly doubt there will be too many skills that aren't useful, I would say otherwise since that's usually the case but these are assassin skills. If I can have all of them, surely I will have all of them and surely there will come a time where I use them.

Black Flag is different, the swords are all the same thing and don't have anymore use then the other.

LoyalACFan
08-17-2014, 08:33 PM
I highly doubt there will be too many skills that aren't useful, I would say otherwise since that's usually the case but these are assassin skills. If I can have all of them, surely I will have all of them and surely there will come a time where I use them.

Black Flag is different, the swords are all the same thing and don't have anymore use then the other.

It's already confirmed that there are skills for "long weapon mastery" that lets you do a leg sweep with spears, so factor in a few more like that and you're already looking at several skills you won't use if you stick to one weapon type. Throw in some more given ones like fast reload (pointless if you don't use guns) faster healing (pointless if you avoid combat) and more filler like that. There will be useless ones, mark my words.

And even for the good ones; why not just refrain from using the ones you think clash with your character build? Isn't that effectively the same thing as having limited skill points? Will you really feel compelled to use heavy weapons on your stealthy ninja character after buying heavy weapon mastery?

Assassin_M
08-17-2014, 08:53 PM
Technically the Cristina missions needed you to do half the game in full sync since the last one unlocked at 75%. ACR kind of tricked you into thinking full sync would give you something since ACB did, so that's just as bad. How the hell were we supposed to know AC3's Altair outfit would suck? And AC4 gave you cheats that were actually really fun to mess around with.
Sure, half the game..that's not so hard at all. ACR still gives you nothing, a matter of worse or not, AC III's Altair outfit still did not scream important story that I MUST do and AC IV's cheats don't scream "important story" to me wither so like I said, if you don't want to do them, don't do them...the only game where you ABSOLUTELY HAVE to do SOME them is ACB


I don't understand your second point about Infamous. It sounds like you're making the same argument I am. "I'm a good Cole so I'm locked out of getting that one evil Cole power I want" is the same thing as "I've used all my skill points on stealth upgrades so now I can never get that one parkour move I want." That's why it's a good thing we can get all the skills; get the ones you want, neglect the ones you don't. And another thing; even if you do buy all the skills, fully max out your character and everything, you don't have to USE all the skills...
You're saying that the skill tree does not unlock anything that players may want, unlike the optional objectives but i'm saying that YES it may unlock something the player wants, like infamous' good and bad kharma trees. There're attacks in the evil kharma tree that a player may want but can't get because they're good or vice versa.

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 08:55 PM
It's already confirmed that there are skills for "long weapon mastery" that lets you do a leg sweep with spears, so factor in a few more like that and you're already looking at several skills you won't use if you stick to one weapon type. Throw in some more given ones like fast reload (pointless if you don't use guns) faster healing (pointless if you avoid combat) and more filler like that. There will be useless ones, mark my words.

And even for the good ones; why not just refrain from using the ones you think clash with your character build? Isn't that effectively the same thing as having limited skill points? Will you really feel compelled to use heavy weapons on your stealthy ninja character after buying heavy weapon mastery?

No such thing now, there is only samey master assassins.

Remember kids, everyone in life is equally good at all of the same things!

Oh and as a matter of fact yes I do want to sweep with spears. Why not use it? It's there? It's probably easy as sin to get besides a bunch of dull repetitive grinding.

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 09:22 PM
It's funny how some people are saying "you don't HAVE to specialize in everything if you don't want to" but jump on the optional objectives even though "you don't HAVE to complete them if you don't want to"

I can see the arguments on both sides, it's exactly like the optional objectives debacle--but again, for me it wont really matter because I really don't HAVE to get everything--I didn't get everything in Watch Dogs and I wont get everything here.

I don't jump on the optional objectives dude...

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 09:26 PM
No such thing now, there is only samey master assassins.

Remember kids, everyone in life is equally good at all of the same things!

lol! Does it realy bother you this much? It was to be expected based on some other recent ubisoft games.

Because of all the customization and the different gear elements, i highly doubt that all assassins will be exactly the same.

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 09:31 PM
lol! Does it realy bother you this much? It was to be expected based on some other recent ubisoft games.

Because of all the customization and the different gear elements, i highly doubt that all assassins will be exactly the same.

It totally does bother me this much.

I know it was to be expected but I hoped for it to be different.

Meh what's stopping them from being the same though? Nothing, if I wanna play a character precisely like yours all I gotta do is equip all the stuff you've equipped.

I despise simplicity in games. To me this is the equivalent of putting me in an MMORPG, with no class, you level up and you get all the skills, the only thing different is the gear you have but so what? That's artificial and is the same as choosing a class anyways.

They might as well have made us choose a restricted build and simply allowed us to change anytime...

What's the point? IMO it's an illusion of freedom and I'm going to grab all the skills because they're there. Why wouldn't I? I'm a gamer man, there's two things I'm hard wired to do.

Loot and progress a character as far as it can go.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 09:39 PM
It totally does bother me this much.

I know it was to be expected but I hoped for it to be different.

Meh what's stopping them from being the same though? Nothing, if I wanna play a character precisely like yours all I gotta do is equip all the stuff you've equipped.

I despise simplicity in games. To me this is the equivalent of putting me in an MMORPG, with no class, you level up and you get all the skills, the only thing different is the gear you have but so what? That's artificial and is the same as choosing a class anyways.

They might as well have made us choose a restricted build and simply allowed us to change anytime...

What's the point? IMO it's an illusion of freedom and I'm going to grab all the skills because they're there. Why wouldn't I? I'm a gamer man, there's two things I'm hard wired to do.

Loot and progress a character as far as it can go.

I always complete the game 100% and i always enjoy the side content and the exploring, but i think a lot of people won't take the time to do this and thus won't unlock all the skills. I see it as an extra incentive to explore and to complete all the side content.

Assassin_M
08-17-2014, 09:40 PM
I don't jump on the optional objectives dude...
It wasn't aimed at you.

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 09:41 PM
It wasn't aimed at you.
well you said something like "lol at the people saying you don't have to specialize in skills when they got angry about optional objectives and you don't have to do those."

I dunno, I basically have to say that I never said that people would be forced to do optional objectives.

HiddenKiller612
08-17-2014, 09:44 PM
People are seriously upset over this? I'm the opposite... I'd be upset if we couldn't get all the skills. I want to be a master assassin, I want the choice to use one or all the skills... Not to be limited to a few of the ones I really want. I got all the skills in Watch Dogs, minus the mp ones... This isn't some rpg where you create your character from the ground up... You're playing a set character... the only difference being that you can choose which outfits to wear and which weapons to carry. What if there is really only a few good skills? Every player will choose to unlock those skills first... so in the end, you wouldn't be any different than the other players. Whereas most won't unlock every skill... if you do, you're vastly different than the majority of people who've played the game. They've said from the beginning that everything you do in the game goes towards making Arno a master assassin... it would be a pointless journey in the end if he had only 1/3 of the skills of a master assassin.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 09:45 PM
People are seriously upset over this? I'm the opposite... I'd be upset if we couldn't get all the skills. I want to be a master assassin, I want the choice to use one or all the skills... Not to be limited to a few of the ones I really want. I got all the skills in Watch Dogs, minus the mp ones... This isn't some rpg where you create your character from the ground up... You're playing a set character... the only difference being that you can choose which outfits to wear and which weapons to carry. What if there is really only a few good skills? Every player will choose to unlock those skills first... so in the end, you wouldn't be any different than the other players. Whereas most won't unlock every skill... if you do, you're vastly different than the majority of people who've played the game. They've said from the beginning that everything you do in the game goes towards making Arno a master assassin... it would be a pointless journey in the end if he had only 1/3 of the skills of a master assassin.

I feel the same way.

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 10:01 PM
I always complete the game 100% and i always enjoy the side content and the exploring, but i think a lot of people won't take the time to do this and thus won't unlock all the skills. I see it as an extra incentive to explore and to complete all the side content.

I don't need extra incentive to go and explore a beautiful historical world. That's the thing. I'm gonna do that whether you put something there or not.


People are seriously upset over this? I'm the opposite... I'd be upset if we couldn't get all the skills.

Yes I am. Some of my first games were RPG/MMORPG's. I like choice, I like to have so many good choices that I have to sit down and think HARD about what I want to do, I like to read up and study the options for hours and then still be confused to the point where I have to see what other players have to say on the matter and only then do I finally make an informed decision.

I hate when games add RPG like features and then strip away all the things that make those RPG features great. There will be no thought in this for me, all I have to do is jump in and grab everything, who cares? I can get it all anyways.


I want to be a master assassin, I want the choice to use one or all the skills... Not to be limited to a few of the ones I really want. I got all the skills in Watch Dogs, minus the mp ones... This isn't some rpg where you create your character from the ground up... You're playing a set character...

No master excels at everything equally, that's inhuman. You can have a doctorate in Psychology but I can guarantee that you're better in a certain sub area of psychology than other people.

Ezio may be a master assassin but absolutely CANNOT say that he's exactly the same as Altair, Altair and Ezio will obviously have different levels of mastery in different skills. Cause they're human and they live on Earth.

The only thing "set" about Arno is that he becomes a "master" lol is the game going to say at the end that "Arno became a master assassin and was equally proficient in everything cause he's basically god?"

It's not going to talk about skills at all, that's never mentioned so he can be whatever you want, there is no canon Arno.


the only difference being that you can choose which outfits to wear and which weapons to carry. What if there is really only a few good skills? Every player will choose to unlock those skills first... so in the end, you wouldn't be any different than the other players.

They'd have to utterly ruin one of the main skill trees to do what you're saying and thus make either Stealth, Combat, or Parkour trees completely unviable.


Whereas most won't unlock every skill... if you do, you're vastly different than the majority of people who've played the game. They've said from the beginning that everything you do in the game goes towards making Arno a master assassin... it would be a pointless journey in the end if he had only 1/3 of the skills of a master assassin.

Only casual players or people who don't put in the time won't do it and anybody can put in the time. Even if you work and you can only put an hour, you'll still eventually complete it and be complete if you want to be. I'm not a casual player and while I have things that I do irl I WILL unlock every skill because I can and it's actually obliging me to.

What is a master assassin? Are you literally telling me that every single master assassin in history is a clone? You're telling me that Altair, Ezio, Connor, and Edward have exactly the same skill in Eagle Vision, Parkour, Stealth, and Combat? That's lunacy. They don't. They may all be masters but they are NOT equal in everything.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 10:07 PM
lol. Only that first quote was posted by me. Those last three quotes were posted by someone else.

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 10:09 PM
lol. Only that first quote was posted by me. Those last three quotes were posted by someone else.

Lolol sorry dude, when I'm quoting I sometimes fail like that, fixing it.

EDIT - Fixed it.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 10:12 PM
Lolol sorry dude, when I'm quoting I sometimes fail like that, fixing it.

EDIT - Fixed it.

No worries. The same thing has happened to me more than once.

Shahkulu101
08-17-2014, 10:13 PM
@Seseenku

This ain't no RPG me breda

They are incorporating light RPG elements into an open world action adventure game. Deal with it.

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 10:15 PM
@Seseenku

This ain't no RPG me breda

They are incorporating light RPG elements into an open world action adventure game. Deal with it.

I'll cut you Shahk.

Let me yell and rage in peace.

Screw yo light rpg element BS.

HiddenKiller612
08-17-2014, 10:18 PM
I don't need extra incentive to go and explore a beautiful historical world. That's the thing. I'm gonna do that whether you put something there or not.



Yes I am. Some of my first games were RPG/MMORPG's. I like choice, I like to have so many good choices that I have to sit down and think HARD about what I want to do, I like to read up and study the options for hours and then still be confused to the point where I have to see what other players have to say on the matter and only then do I finally make an informed decision.

I hate when games add RPG like features and then strip away all the things that make those RPG features great. There will be no thought in this for me, all I have to do is jump in and grab everything, who cares? I can get it all anyways.



No master excels at everything equally, that's inhuman. You can have a doctorate in Psychology but I can guarantee that you're better in a certain sub area of psychology than other people.

Ezio may be a master assassin but absolutely CANNOT say that he's exactly the same as Altair, Altair and Ezio will obviously have different levels of mastery in different skills. Cause they're human and they live on Earth.

The only thing "set" about Arno is that he becomes a "master" lol is the game going to say at the end that "Arno became a master assassin and was equally proficient in everything cause he's basically god?"

It's not going to talk about skills at all, that's never mentioned so he can be whatever you want, there is no canon Arno.



They'd have to utterly ruin one of the main skill trees to do what you're saying and thus make either Stealth, Combat, or Parkour trees completely unviable.



Only casual players or people who don't put in the time won't do it and anybody can put in the time. Even if you work and you can only put an hour, you'll still eventually complete it and be complete if you want to be. I'm not a casual player and while I have things that I do irl I WILL unlock every skill because I can and it's actually obliging me to.

What is a master assassin? Are you literally telling me that every single master assassin in history is a clone? You're telling me that Altair, Ezio, Connor, and Edward have exactly the same skill in Eagle Vision, Parkour, Stealth, and Combat? That's lunacy. They don't. They may all be masters but they are NOT equal in everything.

No, not every master has been the same... Each game has given them different skills... but the developers have defined what makes a master assassin in Unity. They've already said that everything goes towards making Arno a master assasssin. So whether or not you unlock all the skills... those are Arno's cannon skills in the end. Those are what he had. The devs have already defined it, already stated over and over again that everything is focused on making him a master assassin.

SlyTrooper
08-17-2014, 10:18 PM
Technically the skills still matter to an extent. When the game first comes out, nobody will have all the skills. This will cause people to select the ones that suit their style. Therefore, this is the best time to jump into coop. You also have to consider that you will not have all the skills when playing missions in the story. In the demo we saw, he doesn't have the lockpick skill. This means that your choices matter. You never know, it could take a while to earn skill points, so you may complete the entire story without unlocking them all if you don't pay attention to the side content.

Shahkulu101
08-17-2014, 10:18 PM
I'll cut you Shahk.

Let me yell and rage in peace.

Screw yo light rpg element BS.

Just saying, doesn't fit the genre to have specialized skill trees. I'm super glad they did it this way, RPG's aren't for me, I like a set experience, Call me a peasant.

Sushiglutton
08-17-2014, 10:20 PM
The most important positive effect of the skilltree imo is that Ubi will be able to pull a lot of tutorial stuff out of the campaign and instead let the player teach himself as he unlocks new skills.This will be most welcome as the tutorials have ballooned to really annoying proportions in AC (talking 5-10h).


As a side note I'm really curious what the parkour tree will be like. I mean I suppose leap of faith, controlled descent and stuff like vaulting may be skills? But then what? How can there be enough parkour features to fill a tree (will they tweak parameters like speed etc)?

HiddenKiller612
08-17-2014, 10:21 PM
The most important positive effect of the skilltree imo is that Ubi will be able to pull a lot of tutorial stuff out of the campaign and instead let the player teach himself as he unlocks new skills.This will be most welcome as the tutorials have ballooned to really annoying proportions in AC (talking 5-10h).


As a side note I'm really curious what the parkour tree will be like. I mean I suppose leap of faith, controlled descent and stuff like vaulting may be skills? But then what? How can there be enough parkour features to fill a tree (will they tweak parameters like speed etc)?

Speed, distance, stamina when running... etc..

SHADOWGARVIN
08-17-2014, 10:22 PM
As a side note I'm really curious what the parkour tree will be like. I mean I suppose leap of faith, controlled descent and stuff like vaulting may be skills? But then what? How can there be enough parkour features to fill a tree (will they tweak parameters like speed etc)?

Maybe some specific type of jump?

Shahkulu101
08-17-2014, 10:23 PM
If there's a stamina bar I will go nuts...

Sushiglutton
08-17-2014, 10:24 PM
Speed, distance, stamina when running... etc..

Stamina? I sure hope not lol! Speed, yeah maybe, but it seems kind of complicated to me as they need to tweak everything for several different speeds. By distance do you mean how far we Arno can jump? That could make sense actually and then they can have some areas out of reach unless you have unlocked the skill (similar to lockpicking). I dunno, I'm very curious though!



Maybe some specific type of jump?

Would be cool if there are some more stylish parkour moves you can pull off.



If there's a stamina bar I will go nuts...

Ha you beat me to it. Yeah that would be :mad:

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 10:26 PM
No, not every master has been the same... Each game has given them different skills... but the developers have defined what makes a master assassin in Unity. They've already said that everything goes towards making Arno a master assasssin. So whether or not you unlock all the skills... those are Arno's cannon skills in the end. Those are what he had. The devs have already defined it, already stated over and over again that everything is focused on making him a master assassin.

Everything that YOU put goes into making him a "master". What I put may not be the same as you. So therefore no they didn't define squat. Once again Master does not mean equally and perfectly proficient at everything either.




Technically the skills still matter to an extent. When the game first comes out, nobody will have all the skills. This will cause people to select the ones that suit their style. Therefore, this is the best time to jump into coop. You also have to consider that you will not have all the skills when playing missions in the story. In the demo we saw, he doesn't have the lockpick skill. This means that your choices matter. You never know, it could take a while to earn skill points, so you may complete the entire story without unlocking them all if you don't pay attention to the side content.

They matter regardless of what way they do it, you just don't end up at the end of the game with what is essentially a clone dressed differently with a different stick to beat things with.


Just saying, doesn't fit the genre to have specialized skill trees. I'm super glad they did it this way, RPG's aren't for me, I like a set experience, Call me a peasant.

Who says? You? They already stole the stripped feature from RPG's anyways so clearly whether it's deep or not doesn't break the genre, they just don't have the balls to do it because players who hate choices and decisions will complain.

I don't see the benefit of a set experience in any game. The discussion of skills completely aside for the moment, any game could be made deeper, longer, and more replayable with an experience that isn't set. Hence all this excitement with procedural generation in indie games lately.


The most important positive effect of the skilltree imo is that Ubi will be able to pull a lot of tutorial stuff out of the campaign and instead let the player teach himself as he unlocks new skills.This will be most welcome as the tutorials have ballooned to really annoying proportions in AC (talking 5-10h).


As a side note I'm really curious what the parkour tree will be like. I mean I suppose leap of faith, controlled descent and stuff like vaulting may be skills? But then what? How can there be enough parkour features to fill a tree (will they tweak parameters like speed etc)?

I remember when they used to include these neat little things called manuals that taught you everything you needed to know and if your dumb *** didn't read it it was your problem.

Our race is getting really pathetic these days (not talking about you going off on a brief tangent) kids these days won't even read damned instruction manuals....

I read the freaking manual that came with Pokemon Yellow when I WAS FIVES YEARS OLD. Lazy punks.

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 10:26 PM
Sesh, just because Arno gets every skill in the skill trees doesn't mean he's actually a "master" at them, it just means that that's as far as the skill trees go.

Fatal-Feit
08-17-2014, 10:27 PM
As a side note I'm really curious what the parkour tree will be like. I mean I suppose leap of faith, controlled descent and stuff like vaulting may be skills? But then what? How can there be enough parkour features to fill a tree (will they tweak parameters like speed etc)?

From what I've seen, there are two types of trees. Correct me if I'm wrong. Climbable ones are without branches and leafs (which was seen in the latest Gamescon DEMO), and those non climbable ones that looks short, generic, and full of branches and leafs. (As seen in the Gamescon Trailer) The climbable doesn't really need any new animations. It's just two log points from what I remember. I'll have to take a look at that demo again.

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 10:30 PM
gamescom*

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 10:31 PM
Sesh, just because Arno gets every skill in the skill trees doesn't mean he's actually a "master" at them, it just means that that's as far as the skill trees go.

Fair enough but the way others are talking about make it seem like he MUST have all skills to be a master.

TheDanteEX
08-17-2014, 10:31 PM
The only problem I fear with the skill system is that we'll likely be able to put skills in areas we never use. For example, somebody who never steps into combat is putting skills into combat. I'd prefer having to earn those skills by actually participating in combat so you improve by doing.

HiddenKiller612
08-17-2014, 10:35 PM
Stamina? I sure hope not lol! Speed, yeah maybe, but it seems kind of complicated to me as they need to tweak everything for several different speeds. By distance do you mean how far we Arno can jump? That could make sense actually and then they can have some areas out of reach unless you have unlocked the skill (similar to lockpicking). I dunno, I'm very curious though!



Would be cool if there are some more stylish parkour moves you can pull off.




Ha you beat me to it. Yeah that would be :mad:
lol I don't mean stamina as in a stamina bar. I mean like running for x amount of time before becoming winded... Yep, distance as in how far away he can jump.

Sushiglutton
08-17-2014, 10:39 PM
lol I don't mean stamina as in a stamina bar. I mean like running for x amount of time before becoming winded... Yep, distance as in how far away he can jump.

Well if you can only run for X seconds, that's in fact a stamina bar wether there's avisual representation for it or not. Not a fan of that in AC personally.



From what I've seen, there are two types of trees. Correct me if I'm wrong. Climbable ones are without branches and leafs (which was seen in the latest Gamescon DEMO), and those non climbable ones that looks short, generic, and full of branches and leafs. (As seen in the Gamescon Trailer) The climbable doesn't really need any new animations. It's just two log points from what I remember. I'll have to take a look at that demo again.

That would be parkour tree skill ;). I was talking about the parkour skill tree.

I undesrtand you were joking :)

Fatal-Feit
08-17-2014, 10:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF9bO-tPxKE

5:30

Nevermind, my memories are failing on me. Now I'm really curious to see how it works.:p

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 10:58 PM
Fair enough but the way others are talking about make it seem like he MUST have all skills to be a master.

That's not my issue.

My issue is that all of these skills, according to the lore of the series, have to be taken from Arno's actual memories. That means that Arno has to have all these skills at some point during his life.

Not that he needs to the best person at lockpicking/stealth/parkour/combat in the world to be a Master Assassin, but rather, just that all of the skills in the skill trees are all skills that Arno has had at some point in his life.

I'm basically just saying, that just because something like "spear mastery" and "sword mastery" are both skills, it doesn't mean that he's super-duper skilled at them, it just means he knows how to use them. I mean, they do say that Elise is better at swordplay than Arno is..

If we get a playable Elise DLC, I'm expecting her skill tree(s) to be fairly different from Arno's skill trees.

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 11:04 PM
That's not my issue.

My issue is that all of these skills, according to the lore of the series, have to be taken from Arno's actual memories. That means that Arno has to have all these skills at some point during his life.

Not that he needs to the best person at lockpicking/stealth/parkour/combat in the world to be a Master Assassin, but rather, just that all of the skills in the skill trees are all skills that Arno has had at some point in his life.

I'm basically just saying, that just because something like "spear mastery" and "sword mastery" are both skills, it doesn't mean that he's super-duper skilled at them, it just means he knows how to use them. I mean, they do say that Elise is better at swordplay than Arno is..

If we get a playable Elise DLC, I'm expecting her skill tree(s) to be fairly different from Arno's skill trees.

It's not gonna convey that though, if you get a spear sweep skill it's a spear sweep skill.

This is still a game so obviously filling out the whole combat tree is going to have a big effect on combat. Not only is it not realistic it does nothing to help the game play save for this new age of "triple A" gaming where everyone wants their cake and to eat it too regardless of the consequences.

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 11:07 PM
you know that saying literally means having it both ways?

What are the two ways?

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 11:12 PM
you know that saying literally means having it both ways?

What are the two ways?

It means several things first off including you can't have the best of both worlds.

In other words everyone wants skills in games and THEN they also want to have all of the skills as well.

In other words the supposed "best" of two genres.

Naturally I disagree, if you put something from another genre some changes have to be made to accommodate... but the depth and complexity from RPG's is gone once you just say, yeah whatever you can collect all the skills.

Who cares what you get now? We'll all be the same by the end. They put customization in the game and then take out the need for choice taking out one of the elements of why customization is enjoyable, because you get to choose what you want and it has an effect that has more impact then "oh damn I can't open this locked door in the story cause I didn't get lockpicks yet.. oh well I'll just go do some side missions and get it anyways cause it doesn't even matter"

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 11:18 PM
I care about it because it gives you a sense of progression. It also allows me to forgo skills I don't care about until I get the skills I do care about.

They're pretty much just there to give you a sense of progression beyond just completing missions and getting better weapons and armor.

You're right in the sense that it is pretty much just there to provide an "illusion" of something, but I like that illusion because it makes it more fun for me, personally.

Sesheenku
08-17-2014, 11:23 PM
I care about it because it gives you a sense of progression. It also allows me to forgo skills I don't care about until I get the skills I do care about.

Restricted skill points doesn't change that... in fact it pretty much encourages you to forgo skills you don't care about and immediately get skills you do care about.


They're pretty much just there to give you a sense of progression beyond just completing missions and getting better weapons and armor.

Again restricted skill points doesn't change that.


You're right in the sense that it is pretty much just there to provide an "illusion" of something, but I like that illusion because it makes it more fun for me, personally.

It could have been more than just an illusion for ONCE. No though Ubisoft is content with the "illusion" of depth and interesting stuff. Hopefully their other features don't end up being shallow too.

Shahkulu101
08-17-2014, 11:28 PM
It's not an illusion. Was the progression of the Jackdaw an illusion just because you could unlock everything? No, you HAD to upgrade your ship to accomplish certain missions. That is what's happening in Unity with Arno. You need to upgrade skills because otherwise you can't accomplish certain tasks, or do certain actions such as lock picking. If we were just given the tools to do everything from the start there would be no progression, but that's not the case. We have skill points, which we can use to unlock certain features within the game. Just because we can get everything, doesn't mean they don't matter at all.

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 11:28 PM
But restricted skill points don't make sense in terms of the lore, and it also discourages experimentation to a certain extent (unless you can respec), because what if I want to try out different kinds of skills together, but it's risky to do so, so thus I take the safe route?

All RPGs should have a respec option in any case.


It's not an illusion. Was the progression of the Jackdaw an illusion just because you could unlock everything? No, you HAD to upgrade your ship to accomplish certain missions. That is what's happening in Unity with Arno. You need to upgrade skills because otherwise you can't accomplish certain tasks, or do certain actions such as lock picking. If we were just given the tools to do everything from the start there would be no progression, but that's not the case. We have skill points, which we can use to unlock certain features within the game. Just because we can get everything, doesn't mean they don't matter at all.
the thing is though, is that those options didn't exactly need to be skills that we choose to unlock though. They could have just been abilities that are given to us automatically as we progress through the game.

With the skills, it creates the sense of progression in the sense that you're choosing what you want to progress in, but it's also a bit of an illusion because if you do all of the content you're going to end up getting all the skills anyway.

Shahkulu101
08-17-2014, 11:36 PM
the thing is though, is that those options didn't exactly need to be skills that we choose to unlock though. They could have just been abilities that are given to us automatically as we progress through the game.

With the skills, it creates the sense of progression in the sense that you're choosing what you want to progress in, but it's also a bit of an illusion because if you do all of the content you're going to end up getting all the skills anyway.

Er...we earned upgrades for the jackdaw by boarding ships and buying upgrades with money. How would that have been done if upgrades were unlocked by just progressing through the main campaign? The open world structure would have to be different completely, since so much of it was based on gathering resources.

That's another thing, if we progress by stuff simply being given to us it restricts the narrative. "Oh we have to give this player a new skill, better shove in a tutorial mission". Unlockable skill trees allows us to progress at our own pace, without the need for obtrusive tutorials. We can unlock any skill freely out of a variety of options, and learn how it works through natural play. It might technically be an illusion, but there's value in it.

Jexx21
08-17-2014, 11:41 PM
Oh, yea, it does things that are better for the gameplay.

I am in support of the skill systems you know :P

Shahkulu101
08-17-2014, 11:44 PM
Yeah I know, but calling it an illusion implies there is no point in it being there in the first place. Which is untrue.

Jexx21
08-18-2014, 12:02 AM
Yeah I know, but calling it an illusion implies there is no point in it being there in the first place. Which is untrue.

That isn't exactly what I meant.

SlyTrooper
08-18-2014, 12:40 AM
How big do you think the tree will be? I hope it's bigger than the tree in Watch Dogs, or at least harder to earn xp.

NOTE: This will probably be my last post until I come back from my holiday on Friday. I look forward to seeing how many arguments about Connor have taken place :)

JustPlainQuirky
08-18-2014, 12:41 AM
How big do you think the tree will be? I hope it's bigger than the tree in Watch Dogs, or at least harder to earn xp.

NOTE: This will probably be my last post until I come back from my holiday on Friday. I look forward to seeing how many arguments about Connor have taken place :)

BYE SLY HAVE FUN

*waves* :3

Sesheenku
08-18-2014, 12:55 AM
But restricted skill points don't make sense in terms of the lore, and it also discourages experimentation to a certain extent (unless you can respec), because what if I want to try out different kinds of skills together, but it's risky to do so, so thus I take the safe route?

All RPGs should have a respec option in any case.

Never said respec shouldn't be allowed.


It's not an illusion. Was the progression of the Jackdaw an illusion just because you could unlock everything? No, you HAD to upgrade your ship to accomplish certain missions. That is what's happening in Unity with Arno. You need to upgrade skills because otherwise you can't accomplish certain tasks, or do certain actions such as lock picking. If we were just given the tools to do everything from the start there would be no progression, but that's not the case. We have skill points, which we can use to unlock certain features within the game. Just because we can get everything, doesn't mean they don't matter at all.

It was an illusion, it didn't even matter, you can grab random *** upgrades and pwn everything... I did. The combat is too simplistic and the ai too idiotic for it to matter therefore it's not important and thus leaves no feeling of progression.

Unity is about choice... if you can't open the door you can simply take another route... It does lessen the impact of everything. I can get anything I want at anytime, if there's a locked door and I feel like I wanna go through it, I'll just go do a side mission to get the point and throw it carelessly into lockpicking. Hell if I want I'll do nothing but side content and get the trees entirely done, carelessly throwing points in anything along the way.

I'm tired of this illusionary depth Ubisoft keeps putting it all the tasks... They're all dressed up to look deep and meaningful but when you start playing them they're just tarted up repetitive busy work tasks. I'm quite sick and tired of it frankly.

Shahkulu101
08-18-2014, 01:00 AM
Never said respec shouldn't be allowed.



It was an illusion, it didn't even matter, you can grab random *** upgrades and pwn everything... I did. The combat is too simplistic and the ai too idiotic for it to matter therefore it's not important and thus leaves no feeling of progression.

Unity is about choice... if you can't open the door you can simply take another route... It does lessen the impact of everything. I can get anything I want at anytime, if there's a locked door and I feel like I wanna go through it, I'll just go do a side mission to get the point and throw it carelessly into lockpicking. Hell if I want I'll do nothing but side content and get the trees entirely done, carelessly throwing points in anything along the way.

I'm tired of this illusionary depth Ubisoft keeps putting it all the tasks... They're all dressed up to look deep and meaningful but when you start playing them they're just tarted up repetitive busy work tasks. I'm quite sick and tired of it frankly.

I actually struggle to think of one Open World game that ISN'T an RPG that has in depth RPG elements...

You have irrational expectations.

Sesheenku
08-18-2014, 01:09 AM
I actually struggle to think of one Open World game that ISN'T an RPG that has in depth RPG elements...

You have irrational expectations.

This industry is built on us, if we expect more they will make more, if we become complacent, loyal, lap dogs, they will give us less and less and less.

They say they want to innovate action/adventure this gen, well they missed a key opportunity to show people how it's done.

Shahkulu101
08-18-2014, 01:20 AM
This industry is built on us, if we expect more they will make more, if we become complacent, loyal, lap dogs, they will give us less and less and less.

They say they want to innovate action/adventure this gen, well they missed a key opportunity to show people how it's done.

God you're a bit melodramatic mate. I'm not saying we should accept lower quality and lack of innovation yada yada - just that expecting in depth RPG elements in an Assassin's Creed game is not a wise thing to do. Lest it turn into an RPG and not Assassin's Creed. People play these games to be the awesome badass assassin on the cover. Unity's basis for the entire game is the progression of Arno into Master Assassin. Sir Amancio said so. We aren't picking a class and developing a certain skill set and only that skill set. We are Arno.

I know it sounds like "LEL GO PLY GAY MMORPG" but I just don't think such features are the best idea for an Assassin's Creed game.

MIA SILENT
08-18-2014, 02:03 AM
I'm guessing different skills will become available once we progress the story. I don't like the idea of an "experience meter" for Assassin's Creed, if that makes sense. XP for kills and stuff wouldn't feel right.

Sesheenku
08-18-2014, 03:43 AM
God you're a bit melodramatic mate. I'm not saying we should accept lower quality and lack of innovation yada yada - just that expecting in depth RPG elements in an Assassin's Creed game is not a wise thing to do. Lest it turn into an RPG and not Assassin's Creed. People play these games to be the awesome badass assassin on the cover. Unity's basis for the entire game is the progression of Arno into Master Assassin. Sir Amancio said so. We aren't picking a class and developing a certain skill set and only that skill set. We are Arno.

I know it sounds like "LEL GO PLY GAY MMORPG" but I just don't think such features are the best idea for an Assassin's Creed game.

I simply disagree.

Adding a bit of rpg elements doesn't make it an RPG.

Jexx21
08-18-2014, 03:48 AM
I'm guessing different skills will become available once we progress the story. I don't like the idea of an "experience meter" for Assassin's Creed, if that makes sense. XP for kills and stuff wouldn't feel right.

I don't think you get XP

You get sync points by doing side content, if I'm correct.

TheIronLotus420
08-18-2014, 03:52 AM
The only problem I fear with the skill system is that we'll likely be able to put skills in areas we never use. For example, somebody who never steps into combat is putting skills into combat. I'd prefer having to earn those skills by actually participating in combat so you improve by doing.

While I don't believe this will exactly be the case in Unity, I love this idea. It makes the most sense, logically, IMO. I've been saying this forever for NBA my player modes. If I want to upgrade my 3 point shot, I should have to hit so many during the game, etc.

Sesheenku
08-18-2014, 04:38 AM
While I don't believe this will exactly be the case in Unity, I love this idea. It makes the most sense, logically, IMO. I've been saying this forever for NBA my player modes. If I want to upgrade my 3 point shot, I should have to hit so many during the game, etc.

Basically Skyrim style progression. It's logical in just about any game.

travilanche
08-18-2014, 07:48 AM
Basically Skyrim style progression. It's logical in just about any game.

I was really hoping the progression would be Skyrim style, so I am disappointed by this. But oh well. I am fairly confident the game will be great.

SHADOWGARVIN
08-18-2014, 12:23 PM
This industry is built on us, if we expect more they will make more, if we become complacent, loyal, lap dogs, they will give us less and less and less.

They say they want to innovate action/adventure this gen, well they missed a key opportunity to show people how it's done.

lol. I think they chose the right path and I'm very glad they did. I would have been very disappointed if i was only able to get a certain amount of skill point and skills.

Hans684
08-18-2014, 12:40 PM
I'd don't care if I can get all or not, as long as I can play it my way.

jeordievera
08-18-2014, 05:05 PM
I don't care either. I just want to be the sneakiest Assassin of all so that's where all my skill points are going to. I was always the one running into a target, killing them and then end of the sequel. I am glad that they've changed that so I'm forced to change my approach.

Sesheenku
08-18-2014, 05:50 PM
lol. I think they chose the right path and I'm very glad they did. I would have been very disappointed if i was only able to get a certain amount of skill point and skills.

Yeah I know 8U.

As long as the majority goes up and arms about it it won't happen.

-sigh- We need more console quality RPG's on PC...

SHADOWGARVIN
08-18-2014, 05:53 PM
Yeah I know 8U.

As long as the majority goes up and arms about it it won't happen.

-sigh- We need more console quality RPG's on PC...

Aren't there any good rpg's on pc?

Sesheenku
08-18-2014, 05:58 PM
Aren't there any good rpg's on pc?

I saiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid console style :(

I'd even go for suffering through a PC version of the FF13 series... Wow I can't believe I said that... Seriously though, something with dem production values. I'm feeling shallow, I want something pretty to look at and needlessly convoluted and nobody does that better than FF.

Jexx21
08-18-2014, 06:55 PM
what about Dragon Age or Mass Effect or The Witcher

Sesheenku
08-18-2014, 07:00 PM
what about Dragon Age or Mass Effect or The Witcher

Wanna try dat Witcher but it'd melt my computer lol.

All I got is a 570m 1.5 GB laptop atm with an i7 and 12 gigs of RAM, not enough.

Not even enough for AC4 in fact, I'll have to upgrade before I play Unity. So that's gonna be a while.