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dewgel
08-14-2014, 08:51 PM
Evening all.

Let's start - This isn't a hate thread or an attack on the Ubi development team, this is merely a concern. I'm aware that showcasing demos early in development is a difficult and risky thing, since you've got plenty of bugs to iron out, but there's a few things that caught my eye in the E3 demo that I was concerned about. Obviously, just brushed them aside since I assume that build was published and prepped about a month before E3.

So, now we've had Gamescom. 2 months before release almost. The build we saw could be the same one, but who knows.

Anyway - the main concern I've got is the crowd. There's several problems I noticed. The biggest being the NPCs in the crowd literally shifting models constantly. I don't just mean textures smoothing out as you get closer, I mean literally shapeshifting. I saw a black male NPC morph into a blonde white female NPC in a big dress in the flash of a second while Arno was no more than a few feet away from them. What on Earth is going on there? It's more noticeable in the E3 demo when Arno is on the top before doing the impressive dive, you can watch almost every NPC in the crowd on the ground morph into every NPC model they've got.

Why is that even happening? I could understand it happening if the field of view was blocked or something like that, but they're not.. They're in plain sight.

Secondly - Arno walking through the crowd looks rough. Really rough. I mean, he animates like he's pushing them out the way but they continue to do their animation without budging (usually shouting angrily at a guard or something). To me, that just looks like something to ruin the immersion. It literally looks like you're getting blocked as you try walk through, especially since the crowds are so huge this time and going through the crowd is one of the big things. You'd have thought while reinventing the entire crowd this sort of stuff would have been squashed.


So yeah, those are my two niggles. As stated - this isn't hate - this is my opinion and I appreciate the devs showcasing their work before public release - it would just be nice to know if anyone had any idea if this stuff would be cleaned up before release?

misterB2001
08-14-2014, 08:57 PM
as mentioned in another thread, the shapeshifting type thing is my biggest gripe, i'm sure they'll sort it though :)

Sushiglutton
08-14-2014, 09:02 PM
Yeah gonna have to agree on this. There's a lot of weird pop-in/shape shifting going on. There also seems to be some lag in the animations (don't know the correct terminology) which makes some characters look kind of twitchy. Having this many NPCs on screen at the same time must be really taxing on the hardware so I suppose they have tried to use some techniques to "cheat" a little bit. A bit worried about the end result tbh.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
08-14-2014, 09:02 PM
I have not been paying close attention to the crowds shapeshifting. I feel like an idiot for missing that. Anyway, that's awful.

But I did notice Arno's hard navigation through crowds. He doesn't seem to push past them. They're like immovable objects. It's really weird.

Jexx21
08-14-2014, 09:05 PM
Yea they should fix those things.

I've seen NPCs transform into other models before in past games as well.

I forget if they were Assassin's Creed games though tbh. It might have been Watch Dogs, or Prototype...

dewgel
08-14-2014, 09:07 PM
The animations on some of the crowds are literally insane. The worst I've seen so far was the E3 single player video, where people changed race, gender and so forth.

As for the clunky animations, that too was horrible to see. I saw one guy freeze in his animation and then suddenly blast back into a random unrelated animation of shouting and waving his fist at a wall.


For the record, the game looks beautiful. But if it's so taxing on the hardware, lower the NPC count. I don't care for 2000NPCs on the screen at the same time if they're morphing around like I've got some debug mode on and I'm flicking through character models. Lower it to 1500NPCs if you must - just don't overcook the NPC count if it's really affecting the performance.

I'd rather have a smooth enjoyable experience than an immersion ruining clunky crowd, especially since the detail on them this time around looks so good.

m4r-k7
08-14-2014, 09:21 PM
The crowd thing is actually ridiculous. Look at the crowd at the beginning - almost every NPC changes.
I love the look of the game and the direction its going in but man I am so unconfident that they will polish it up.

Fatal-Feit
08-14-2014, 10:04 PM
AC:U won't be a smooth journey. Expect a drastic downgrade in the next game for smoother play like AC:IV was to AC:3.

m4r-k7
08-14-2014, 10:06 PM
^ AC 4 was a downgrade in graphics to AC 3? I didn't notice. I thought AC 4 was the best looking last-gen open world game.

Shahkulu101
08-14-2014, 10:09 PM
AC:U won't be a smooth journey. Expect a drastic downgrade in the next game for smoother play like AC:IV was to AC:3.

Poppycock

JustPlainQuirky
08-14-2014, 10:11 PM
I didn't notice morphing glitches. Could you post a video example of it happening?

Fatal-Feit
08-14-2014, 10:11 PM
There is a lot of noticeable difference between the two. Boot up naval in AC:3 for one. It's like day and night between the two. --Let alone the huge lack of animations in AC:IV.

Don't get me wrong, AC:IV looks incredible with TXAA x4 enabled, but it did not feel as Next-Gen as AC:3 did.

Shahkulu101
08-14-2014, 10:15 PM
Naval has more animations on the boat yeah, and the sound effects and stuff are better. Not to mention the cannons really have a sense of power behind them, but the water and weather effects in ACIV are way better.

Fatal-Feit
08-14-2014, 10:20 PM
Naval has more animations on the boat yeah, and the sound effects and stuff are better. Not to mention the cannons really have a sense of power behind them, but the water and weather effects in ACIV are way better.

Storms and rogue waves in AC:IV are a breeze compared to AC:3's, but I agree. AC:IV still took naval to the next level. The graphics had to be compromised.

m4r-k7
08-14-2014, 10:23 PM
Mayrice just concentrate on this demo when Arno starts to enter the crowd right at the begginning. Its there - just focus on the crowd.

SpiritOfNevaeh
08-14-2014, 10:38 PM
Mayrice just concentrate on this demo when Arno starts to enter the crowd right at the begginning. Its there - just focus on the crowd.

I saw a few. Hopefully this won't become a widespread thing.

JustPlainQuirky
08-14-2014, 10:47 PM
I didn't see any. Can someone post timestamps?

*cleans glasses*

Sesheenku
08-15-2014, 06:08 AM
AC:U won't be a smooth journey. Expect a drastic downgrade in the next game for smoother play like AC:IV was to AC:3.

Whut... You're joking right?

AC4 had a bit better textures. better motion blur, infinitely better lighting and shadows... pretty much better everything.

Only downgrades were god awful animations.

I can still remember the god awful tree textures in AC3 on the other hand that look like they're straight out of Quake 3.

king-hailz
08-15-2014, 09:09 AM
This is one of my biggest concerns these 'little' bugs are extremely annoying and immersion breaking. I have seen bugs like these in so many AC games... The worst being AC3, I was on with AC4 though. I remember though that before we even knew where it was set they said they will not release it unless it is completely perfect!

So fingers crossed it will get fixed.

dewgel
08-15-2014, 10:31 AM
Mayrice, I'll timestamp it for you later on, just at work at the moment. In the mean time, watch the E3 Single Player Commented Walkthrough on the assassinscreeduk YouTube channel. Around 20-30 seconds in, after the introduction chat where the man gets stabbed in the streets, it shows a view of the crowd outside the NotreDam (I believe) shouting and screaming, watch the crowd in that scene. The camera pans out further into it eventually reaches Arno, hanging from the side of the building.

You can watch them doing it constantly.

jeordievera
08-15-2014, 10:46 AM
I think there is something wrong with my eyes but I can't notice that.

Around 20-30 seconds in, after the introduction chat where the man gets stabbed in the streets, it shows a view of the crowd outside the NotreDam (I believe) shouting and screaming, watch the crowd in that scene
Well I believe I've seen a guy dissapearing but it was from a long distance. I didn't notice people changing in front of me though.
I will be glad if someone can highlight it :)

MickyDaLips
08-15-2014, 11:10 AM
I just watched a couple of videos with the express purpose of seeing the morphing civvies, and have to say i couldn't see any. That's not to say they AREN'T occuring, but with so many people around and not knowing which ones were doing it i didn't know who to focus on.

Basically I'm left with a feeling like playing AC4 on PS4, where even on that system there were people popping into existence, it's irritating for sure and does break immersion, but after a bit of playing that feeling goes away. I'm kinda expecting we'll see similar things in Unity, but as long as we ain't obsessively lookin for them we'll maybe not notice stuff too much.

Locopells
08-15-2014, 11:39 AM
Watch from 2:20, and look at the crowd at the top of the screen, you'll seen a number just flick from being one NPC, to another.

LoyalACFan
08-15-2014, 12:06 PM
I can only tell it when I'm staring intently at the crowd looking for this specific issue. Hope it's fixed, but I can't say it's a huge distraction for me personally.

king-hailz
08-15-2014, 12:09 PM
How can't you see it... It always happens and is very annoying... They need to fix it... If it is like this at launch then it will look very cheap and tacky... It will ruin all the stuff that they have worked so hard for.

jeordievera
08-15-2014, 12:15 PM
Watch from 2:20, and look at the crowd at the top of the screen, you'll seen a number just flick from being one NPC, to another.
Ah ok, thanks, now I've seen it.
I think they will fix it as they are still working on it, but wouldn't bother me as I pay much more attention to the character and guards/targets than NPCs.

LoyalACFan
08-15-2014, 12:18 PM
How can't you see it... It always happens and is very annoying... They need to fix it... If it is like this at launch then it will look very cheap and tacky... It will ruin all the stuff that they have worked so hard for.

I seriously only see like three or four instances of it in all the footage they've released.

RealRonaldo09
08-15-2014, 01:08 PM
I can't see it being that much of a problem for me, took me a while to notice it anyway, surely they should fix this before release though.

Locopells
08-15-2014, 02:47 PM
I had to look for it as well, I was focusing more on other stuff.