PDA

View Full Version : Developing AC games sounds like an absolute chaos



frodrigues55
08-12-2014, 12:50 AM
So, I finally got the change to read the complete Game Informer article, and I must say, those developers must go crazy creating those games!

We all know AC overlaps in production and that is mainly the reason why they butchered/got rid of present day - but have you ever stop to think what does that mean to developers?

Because on Game Informer, they say Unity began development as soon as Brotherhood shipped back in 2010, with directions to create "the biggest and most impressive AC" to date, which was pretty much what they also told to the AC3 people.

This means Montreal was working on Revelations, AC3, Black Flag and Unity at the same freaking time, all of them trying to make a bigger game than the one before, without even seeing them :eek: AC3 was what, barely 1 year in development once Unity began pre-production? And Black Flag only existed in Ismail's mind, I suppose? That sounds insane.

On top of it, they had to create games for next Gen without knowing what the hell that meant. And as if it wasn't enough, they had the ideia to quickly create Revelations in 10 months, I think? How did Amancio manage to handle both games at once, one of them created in such a rush? Or was he not needed for the pre-production of Unity?

I know it's nothing new, but reading it on the Game Informer article really makes you reflect upon that lol. It's quite impressive what they manage to achieve every year. Even with all the bugs, one AC is bigger than most games out there - imagine accomplishing that all at once?

ACfan443
08-12-2014, 12:53 AM
Amancio wasn't brought on to work on Unity until 2012, so both games had his full, undivided attention.

JustPlainQuirky
08-12-2014, 01:22 AM
They have 9,000+ employees.

If they DON'T have at least 3 games being made at a time they're just wasting money.

EmbodyingSeven5
08-12-2014, 01:28 AM
they probably have some sort of system worked out by now.

Skelface
08-12-2014, 01:37 AM
They have 9,000+ employees.

This. If you have the work capacity (are those the correct english words? I'm speaking in terms of number of employees), you split people on multiple games. That's why Montréal (>2000 employees) is the house of almost all of Ubisoft IPs.

But we're seeing Québec and, to a lesser extent, Sofia taking over the development of main Assassin's Creed. I think Ubisoft is starting to give Montréal a rest and establish a development rotation à la Call of Duty (Sledgehammer -> Infinity Ward -> Treyarch).

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 01:42 AM
Everything OP mentioned has nothing to do with numbers apart from working on more than one game.

frodrigues55
08-12-2014, 01:46 AM
Yeah, I didn't mean to say they don't have the people to do it. The chaos I was referring to was more on the concept and their goals.

They simultaneously tell 4 teams to create 4 games at the same time, all within a cohesive world, but *your* team have to create the bigger AC to date, while the other team have to create an even bigger, and no one knows exactly what they mean by that, because the games you are supposed to surpass don't yet exist. The following AC cannot be smaller than the previous one, no matter what happens... They work on assets and foundations that they don't even know if will be accepted at all. No wonder if those rumors about AC3's development hell were true.

Jexx21
08-12-2014, 02:07 AM
AC3 started in 2009, Unity in 2010, Revelations in 2010, Black Flag in 2011. We don't know when Rogue started development, but I'm guessing 2012.

LatinaC09
08-12-2014, 02:41 AM
They have 9,000+ employees.

If they DON'T have at least 3 games being made at a time they're just wasting money.

Exactly. Assassin's Creed is Ubisoft's biggest franchise right now. They better be dumping a lot into it or it would be a big waste. I guarantee there are about 5 to 6 games in the works right now. They probably have 50 different stories they could play around with as well.

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 02:43 AM
Again, nothing the OP talked about has anything to do with employee numbers but the number of games, which makes such a small fraction of what his post is saying.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 02:44 AM
I'm gonna keep this short.

Ubisoft should make sure that quality comes before everything else, world size, graphics, all of that. A good story with enjoyable game play and some good art direction goes a very long way and without the obscene amount of money that companies spend today foolishly and then when faced with the consequences of spending too ****ing much dump the cost on the consumer.

No this doesn't mean make a really good 8 hour game, that's unacceptable too unless it's EXTREMELY re-playable and few games ever attain that except spectacle fighters like Devil May Cry which are entirely focused on mastering very complex systems that require one to master being dexterous with the controls.

SixKeys
08-12-2014, 03:00 AM
No this doesn't mean make a really good 8 hour game, that's unacceptable too unless it's EXTREMELY re-playable and few games ever attain that except spectacle fighters like Devil May Cry which are entirely focused on mastering very complex systems that require one to master being dexterous with the controls.

ACB has a short main campaign and I've replayed it countless times. I don't understand why people have this mentality that a game needs to be really long to have any value. The only real issue with a short game is whether it's priced accordingly (which, admittedly, Ubi games aren't always).

JustPlainQuirky
08-12-2014, 03:01 AM
Sixkeys has a point.

Portal is super short and widely regarded as a masterpiece.

Same applies to the game Journey

I personally prefer longer AC games because I'm greedy and like lots of story/cutscenes.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 03:09 AM
ACB has a short main campaign and I've replayed it countless times. I don't understand why people have this mentality that a game needs to be really long to have any value. The only real issue with a short game is whether it's priced accordingly (which, admittedly, Ubi games aren't always).

Brotherhood isn't quite that short. It's more than 8 hours. It's 14 and a half hours for the main story alone not factoring in tombs or anything like that. So it doesn't apply to ACB.

I find that 14 hours is a very good sweet spot IF the game is of a high enough quality.

For example Alice Madness Returns is no more than 19 hours or so and I've played about 65 hours, Tomb Raider is roughly 14 hours and I've played 70 hours.

Those hours are fine for action/adventure games.

RPG's should be no less than 25-30 hours, all the greats from the PS2 era are at LEAST that much and if companies aren't so obsessed with graphics and advertisement and manage their funds wisely instead of blowing them all like a crack addict then this standard is easily maintainable at no detriment to the developer, in fact it actually benefits the developer to keep a sensible budget.


Sixkeys has a point.

Portal is super short and widely regarded as a masterpiece.

Same applies to the game Journey

I personally prefer longer AC games because I'm greedy and like lots of story/cutscenes.


Journey and Portal are games that are far out of the norm and do not apply whatsoever, plus they aren't charging us 60 dollars. They offer quality experiences for reasonable prices.

JustPlainQuirky
08-12-2014, 03:13 AM
Sesh has a point regarding the uniqueness of the games and their cheaper price tag.

hnghh good points on both sides

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 03:14 AM
Brotherhood isn't quite that short. It's more than 8 hours.
Actually, and I mean in the politest way possible, it is 8 hours long...at least, I could finish it in about 8 hours

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 03:17 AM
Actually, and I mean in the politest way possible, it is 8 hours long...at least, I could finish it in about 8 hours

The average is 14 and a half hours. I was not referring to what us rabid hard core mofos can do when we sit down and no life the **** out of it.

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 03:22 AM
The average is 14 and a half hours. I was not referring to what us rabid hard core mofos can do when we sit down and no life the **** out of it.
Doesn't negate the fact that it CAN be finished in 8 hours, though. If i'm watching a movie that's 2 hours long but I keep pausing to do things and thus stretching it to 2 hours and a half, does that negate the fact that it's 2 hours long?

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 03:26 AM
Doesn't negate the fact that it CAN be finished in 8 hours, though. If i'm watching a movie that's 2 hours long but I keep pausing to do things and thus stretching it to 2 hours and a half, does that negate the fact that it's 2 hours long?

The average is what's important here not the fastest time, which btw the fastest time on PC is 8 hrs and the average is 14 or so.

Should we consider speed runners who can finish the game in 4 hours too? No.

Xstantin
08-12-2014, 03:29 AM
Eh, speedrunning... Makes me think about people who run around in MGS and say "There, 15 minutes. Game sucks"

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 03:33 AM
The average is what's important here not the fastest time, which btw the fastest time on PC is 8 hrs and the average is 14 or so.

Should we consider speed runners who can finish the game in 4 hours too? No.
How so? isn't fastest time what's supposed to count? it's the like the movie comparison..they're not cutting anything out of the story or skipping anything, they finished the game in 8 hours and I can do that too.

No because those most likely skip cutscenes.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 03:37 AM
Eh, speedrunning... Makes me think about people who run around in MGS and say "There, 15 minutes. Game sucks"

Precisely, the average time is always what's used because that's the time it's going to take the majority of people to complete it. You don't use fastest, slowest, or speed run times.


How so? isn't fastest time what's supposed to count? it's the like the movie comparison..they're not cutting anything out of the story or skipping anything, they finished the game in 8 hours and I can do that too.

No because those most likely skip cutscenes.

As I said it makes no sense not to go with the average.

The average is what determines everything in just about everything. A movie has a set time btw, you can spend more time on it but you can't squeeze more or less out of it.

How many people managed to get the fastest time, especially on their first play through?

We don't use the fastest for the same reason we don't use the slowest times, because they don't represent how long most will take.

LoyalACFan
08-12-2014, 03:41 AM
How so? isn't fastest time what's supposed to count? it's the like the movie comparison..they're not cutting anything out of the story or skipping anything, they finished the game in 8 hours and I can do that too.

No because those most likely skip cutscenes.

Eh, the movie analogy doesn't work because once the two or three hour runtime has elapsed, you have nothing left to do except walk out of the theater. ACB has a ton of pretty substantial side content that beefs up the experience, even though I don't even really like that game. Yes, you can get through the story in eight hours, but you haven't experienced the whole game.

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 03:48 AM
Eh, the movie analogy doesn't work because once the two or three hour runtime has elapsed, you have nothing left to do except walk out of the theater. ACB has a ton of pretty substantial side content that beefs up the experience, even though I don't even really like that game. Yes, you can get through the story in eight hours, but you haven't experienced the whole game.
We're only talking about story, though.



As I said it makes no sense not to go with the average.

The average is what determines everything in just about everything. A movie has a set time btw, you can spend more time on it but you can't squeeze more or less out of it.

How many people managed to get the fastest time, especially on their first play through?

We don't use the fastest for the same reason we don't use the slowest times, because they don't represent how long most will take.
Not really convinced. ACB's takes 8 hours to finish, that's how long it takes, average or not. I don't know what average is, what happens in average...the fact is, I can watch the story, play it and understand it in 8 hours, that's it. 8 hour story.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 03:55 AM
We're only talking about story, though.


Not really convinced. ACB's takes 8 hours to finish, that's how long it takes, average or not. I don't know what average is, what happens in average...the fact is, I can watch the story, play it and understand it in 8 hours, that's it. 8 hour story.

You but you are not the majority. Practically everything in this world is catered to the majority, even the prices of products are generally decided at what most can afford, not the poorest and not the richest.

Audiences are selected based on the majority of fans, not a niche.

The fact is the average time to complete the story for the average person is 14 hours. Those who take longer or do it faster don't matter MOST people will not be able to replicate or don't want to replicate it.

The AVERAGE time to complete TR is 14 hours, when you ask someone how long it takes to complete TR chances are they'll say around 14 hours, nobody is gonna say 8 hours because they managed to complete it that quickly cause that's irrelevant, what's relevant is what's typical and common.

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 03:57 AM
You but you are not the majority. Practically everything in this world is catered to the majority, even the prices of products are generally decided at what most can afford, not the poorest and not the richest.

Audiences are selected based on the majority of fans, not a niche.

The fact is the average time to complete the story for the average person is 14 hours. Those who take longer or do it faster don't matter MOST people will not be able to replicate or don't want to replicate it.

The AVERAGE time to complete TR is 14 hours, when you ask someone how long it takes to complete TR chances are they'll say around 14 hours, nobody is gonna say 8 hours because they managed to complete it that quickly cause that's irrelevant, what's relevant is what's typical and common.
Doesnt matter who completed it in how long, the fact remains that the story can be finished fully, with cutscenes in 8 hours. there's no arguing with that, why are you arguing? what are you arguing? majority has nothing to do with anything.

Landruner
08-12-2014, 03:58 AM
So, I finally got the change to read the complete Game Informer article, and I must say, those developers must go crazy creating those games!

We all know AC overlaps in production and that is mainly the reason why they butchered/got rid of present day - but have you ever stop to think what does that mean to developers?

Because on Game Informer, they say Unity began development as soon as Brotherhood shipped back in 2010, with directions to create "the biggest and most impressive AC" to date, which was pretty much what they also told to the AC3 people.

This means Montreal was working on Revelations, AC3, Black Flag and Unity at the same freaking time, all of them trying to make a bigger game than the one before, without even seeing them :eek: AC3 was what, barely 1 year in development once Unity began pre-production? And Black Flag only existed in Ismail's mind, I suppose? That sounds insane.

On top of it, they had to create games for next Gen without knowing what the hell that meant. And as if it wasn't enough, they had the ideia to quickly create Revelations in 10 months, I think? How did Amancio manage to handle both games at once, one of them created in such a rush? Or was he not needed for the pre-production of Unity?

I know it's nothing new, but reading it on the Game Informer article really makes you reflect upon that lol. It's quite impressive what they manage to achieve every year. Even with all the bugs, one AC is bigger than most games out there - imagine accomplishing that all at once?

They did not start working (developing) on Unity in 2010 just after Brotherhood, I know that they claim that but it is not true.
They just had the concept of the French Revolution, which could have been used for AC3 initially (They did not know yet) -
French Revolution had been put in hold versus American Revolutionary War for AC3 mostly because they were not sure that The French Revolution was going to be that world wide popular comparing to the American Revolution.

Honestly they really started working (developing) on Unity when they got the first PS4/XBO DEVS/tools release (sometimes in late 2012) and after Anvil Next engine was fully optimized, since they notoriously work those games on consoles first and not on PC like some other developers do. For each game they use several world wide studios that work As an Assembly line with each studio making some part of the next game, Then the all work from the different studios is aligned to make the full game by Ubisoft Montreal. What does not work is tossed away or put aside for next game.

Alexandre Amancio did not manage working on ACR and AC Unity at the same time, he fully worked on ACR after the decision to drop 3ds Assassin's Creed: Lost Legacy and that officially Guillemot anounced the "anualization" of the franchise, and although it is the greatest of all, he did a great job to put that game together with not so much time for a game based upon a Dewitt 3DS story. (Corey May had to co-write notably the Desmond part, which were missing from the DS game.

That is some crazy work to make an AC games, and I think that for the pressures and the like of time they may get for each opus, the developers (all the staff) from those Ubi studios make a wonderful jobs, and I have a deep admiration for them, more than the strategy Ubisoft corp uses for making those games.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 04:02 AM
Doesnt matter who completed it in how long, the fact remains that the story can be finished fully, with cutscenes in 8 hours. there's no arguing with that, why are you arguing? what are you arguing? majority has nothing to do with anything.

I'm arguing because the majority has to do with everything.

That's simple.

How many more sensible analogies and comparisons do I need to make?

When one is asked to tell someone the time for completion of a game NOBODY is gonna say their own time if it's considered fast, in fact your time is considered rushed.

People will say the average because that's what applies to most people.

The minority is utterly unimportant they do not represent the typical person and that's the whole point.

Xstantin
08-12-2014, 04:03 AM
It is really a "full" story though? For instance, ACB since it's the game which is being discussed has Followers of Romulus subplot, spying courtesans, thief gangs etc. linked to the Cesare's/church influence over Rome. Yes, you can say it's filler, but it's there so in reality speedrunning player gets just a central plot of the narrative meanwhile missing set pieces, character dynamics or sidequests the developers intended them to see.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 04:06 AM
It is really a "full" story though? For instance, ACB since it's the game which is being discussed has Followers of Romulus subplot, spying courtesans, thief gangs etc. linked to the Cesare's/church influence over Rome. Yes, you can say it's filler, but it's there so in reality speedrunning player gets just a central plot of the narrative meanwhile missing set pieces, character dynamics or sidequests the developers intended them to see.

Depends on ones definition of main story, one person might say only the missions within the main 9 sequences, others might say anything required to tell the entire story without and holes in the plot.

Landruner
08-12-2014, 04:17 AM
Doesnt matter who completed it in how long, the fact remains that the story can be finished fully, with cutscenes in 8 hours. there's no arguing with that, why are you arguing? what are you arguing? majority has nothing to do with anything.

Hi M! ACR was the shortest mostly because that game (including the story) was from the 3DS Assassin's Creed: Lost Legacy. They had not so much time to expand the extra side missions like AC2/ACB and the game is more focused on the main story for that reason. Actually and paradoxically almost it is by far my least favorite of all, I spent a lot of time into that game, mostly because of the "blast" I had with....the....the bombs !!! (?) Oh my god!, ... what is wrong with me?

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 04:21 AM
It is really a "full" story though? For instance, ACB since it's the game which is being discussed has Followers of Romulus subplot, spying courtesans, thief gangs etc. linked to the Cesare's/church influence over Rome. Yes, you can say it's filler, but it's there so in reality speedrunning player gets just a central plot of the narrative meanwhile missing set pieces, character dynamics or sidequests the developers intended them to see.
Main story is the set of obligatory missions that are needed. Anything else is a side quest.


I'm arguing because the majority has to do with everything.

That's simple.

How many more sensible analogies and comparisons do I need to make?

When one is asked to tell someone the time for completion of a game NOBODY is gonna say their own time if it's considered fast, in fact your time is considered rushed.

People will say the average because that's what applies to most people.

The minority is utterly unimportant they do not represent the typical person and that's the whole point.
You still haven't countered the point of me being able to complete it in 8 hours. Main story, cutscenes..etc. I'v made an analogy about movies too.

It's not rushed, I watched all the cutscenes and fully comprehended the story. how is this rushed?

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 04:22 AM
Hi M! ACR was the shortest mostly because that game (including the story) was from the 3DS Assassin's Creed: Lost Legacy. They had not so much time to expand the extra side missions like AC2/ACB and the game is more focused on the main story for that reason. Actually and paradoxically almost it is by far my least favorite of all, I spent a lot of time into that game, mostly because of the "blast" I had with....the....the bombs !!! (?) Oh my god!, ... what is wrong with me?
Agreed, it took 7 hours.

Landruner
08-12-2014, 04:27 AM
Sixkeys has a point.

Portal is super short and widely regarded as a masterpiece.

Same applies to the game Journey

I personally prefer longer AC games because I'm greedy and like lots of story/cutscenes.

Yep, but I don't consider both game the same way of concept neither....

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 04:29 AM
You still haven't countered the point of me being able to complete it in 8 hours. Main story, cutscenes..etc. I'v made an analogy about movies too.

It's not rushed, I watched all the cutscenes and fully comprehended the story. how is this rushed?

I did counter it, you just don't want to accept the counter. You are not the majority. Your time is considered rushed. Most people will not achieve that time.

Me and another poster explained why the movie analogy doesn't work. You can pause the movie all you want that doesn't extend or lessen the actual length, when the average time is compiled for games it doesn't matter if you pause and then come back to it, it still took the average person 14 hours.

If you don't accept my counter whatever, you'll probably just have to agree to disagree cause I'm not dropping it, I believe that the majority is the determining factor here, not the few who finish quicker or slower.

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 04:54 AM
I did counter it, you just don't want to accept the counter. You are not the majority. Your time is considered rushed. Most people will not achieve that time.

Me and another poster explained why the movie analogy doesn't work. You can pause the movie all you want that doesn't extend or lessen the actual length, when the average time is compiled for games it doesn't matter if you pause and then come back to it, it still took the average person 14 hours.

If you don't accept my counter whatever, you'll probably just have to agree to disagree cause I'm not dropping it, I believe that the majority is the determining factor here, not the few who finish quicker or slower.
The only element where majority or minority counts is the average thing. it's a fact that on average, you can finish the story in 14 hours, that doesn't mean the story lasts 14 hours...just the average time of completing it does for whatever reason, it doesn't change the fact that the main story can be completed fully without skipping cutscenes in 8 hours. I'm not NOT accepting your counter for no reason, it makes no sense.

Loyal was talking about side missions and those are not part of the main story. 14 hours is not an extension of the game's story length either, who knows why it took 14 hours...maybe the player lost a couple of levels, replayed a mission, got desynced, didn't know what to do, traveled slowly, did a good deal of exploring...etc. it DOESN'T extend the main story's time, just the average time needed. Same thing with the movie. You can pause all you want but that doesn't extend its time, just the average amount of time it took you to finish watching it.

When you make some sense with your counter, i'll gladly accept it but so far, you'v offered none that I can see.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 05:14 AM
The only element where majority or minority counts is the average thing. it's a fact that on average, you can finish the story in 14 hours, that doesn't mean the story lasts 14 hours...just the average time of completing it does for whatever reason, it doesn't change the fact that the main story can be completed fully without skipping cutscenes in 8 hours. I'm not NOT accepting your counter for no reason, it makes no sense.

Loyal was talking about side missions and those are not part of the main story. 14 hours is not an extension of the game's story length either, who knows why it took 14 hours...maybe the player lost a couple of levels, replayed a mission, got desynced, didn't know what to do, traveled slowly, did a good deal of exploring...etc. it DOESN'T extend the main story's time, just the average time needed. Same thing with the movie. You can pause all you want but that doesn't extend its time, just the average amount of time it took you to finish watching it.

When you make some sense with your counter, i'll gladly accept it but so far, you'v offered none that I can see.

You can finish the story in 8 hours, that doesn't mean it lasts 8 hours. I can use that argument too. You do not represent the time.

How do you measure something as variable as this? You take the average, the mode, the one that occurs the most, you take what is common, not the tiny percentage that did it quicker or slower.

The story CAN be completed in 8 hours but according to what's typical it most likely won't be.

Just cause you can complete it in 8 hours doesn't exactly mean that must be the number that determines the total time, what if another individual can do exactly what you did in even less than 8 hours, is that now the new length of time for the story? No. That person would be an anomaly.

There's a reason it's called quick or rushed completion, it's not typical, it's not the normal time.

Jexx21
08-12-2014, 05:17 AM
Mayo probably finished ACB in 8-10 hours. she doesn't do side missions in games.

she hates filler

JustPlainQuirky
08-12-2014, 05:21 AM
jexx you stalkin my steam again? :rolleyes:

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 05:27 AM
Mayo probably finished ACB in 8-10 hours. she doesn't do side missions in games.

she hates filler

Couldn't tell you how long it takes me, I bought it on UPLAY just to avoid the double DRM. Don't want to login to UPLAY AND Steam just to play AC.

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 05:49 AM
You can finish the story in 8 hours, that doesn't mean it lasts 8 hours. I can use that argument too. You do not represent the time.
I didn't say I did represent time, I said that the shortest I'v gone in completing the main story while watching the cutscenes and not losing a single time was 8 hours.


How do you measure something as variable as this? You take the average, the mode, the one that occurs the most, you take what is common, not the tiny percentage that did it quicker or slower.
There's your problem, you keep ignoring me when I say that average is not a point of argument here because the story CAN BE COMPLETED IN 8 HOURS without anything abnormal happening. It can be completed in 8 hours, that's that, that's what i'v been saying the whole time..the main story can be completed in 8 hours without skipping a single cutscene, what's so hard about that to comprehend? if it can be completed in 8 hours then it IS 8 hours, it took me 8 hours to complete, why do you insist on making this bigger and more complex than it is?


The story CAN be completed in 8 hours but according to what's typical it most likely won't be.
What does the typical have to do with anything?


Just cause you can complete it in 8 hours doesn't exactly mean that must be the number that determines the total time, what if another individual can do exactly what you did in even less than 8 hours, is that now the new length of time for the story? No. That person would be an anomaly.
no because he/she must'v skipped cutscenes to finish it in less than 8 hours.


There's a reason it's called quick or rushed completion, it's not typical, it's not the normal time.
Doesn't matter, it's still a possible time to finish in which makes that length a possibility.

here's what you're saying "if it took EVERYONE 520 hours to complete the game's story on average without skipping cut scenes because it's hard but then a few people come and say that they finished it in 20 hours without skipping cut scenes then the game 520 hours, not 20" Do you see the problem here? you're disregarding the 20 hours because only a few did it..that doesn't make any sense because they BOTH finished the game with the same criteria...follow the main story without skipping cutscenes.

you're speaking in circles.

Fatal-Feit
08-12-2014, 05:54 AM
AC:B took me less than 8-9 hours on my last replay, actually. And I tried to take my time with it. The last 3-4 sequences were REALLY damn short. Like 20-30 mins short.

The side contents, however, were pretty packed. About 25 hours worth of gameplay for me. And about the same with Revelations.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 05:58 AM
I didn't say I did represent time, I said that the shortest I'v gone in completing the main story while watching the cutscenes and not losing a single time was 8 hours.


There's your problem, you keep ignoring me when I say that average is not a point of argument here because the story CAN BE COMPLETED IN 8 HOURS without anything abnormal happening. It can be completed in 8 hours, that's that, that's what i'v been saying the whole time..the main story can be completed in 8 hours without skipping a single cutscene, what's so hard about that to comprehend? if it can be completed in 8 hours then it IS 8 hours, it took me 8 hours to complete, why do you insist on making this bigger and more complex than it is?

I haven't ignored your argument, I simply find it wanting. Why do you insist on simplifying because of your single, solitary experience? You are ONE person out of millions that have played the game.



What does the typical have to do with anything?

Because the typical players better represent the typical amount of time the story lasts, not the tiniest percentage of players like you.


no because he/she must'v skipped cutscenes to finish it in less than 8 hours.

A bold assumption, you really think nobody can do better than 8 hours? Your time is the shortest period and it's impossible to do it any quicker? That sounds a bit arrogant.


Doesn't matter, it's still a possible time to finish in which makes that length a possibility.

Yeah for a minority. A minority fails to represent the common amount of time it takes and therefore doesn't make sense to use. This is why we even bother with averages in the first place because they are the determining factor in nearly everything.

This is the equivalent of asking how difficult it is to level to max in a lengthy MMORPG, chances are there's going to be a larger majority that think a certain way.

In other words if I write a review on a game and consider the difficulty of leveling, I'm going to take into account not only what I think but what MOST people think, probably not the hardcore and numb veteran who has played the ever loving **** out of MMORPG's since they were 10 and is used to long grinds and complex mechanics.

HiddenKiller612
08-12-2014, 06:35 AM
I finished the main story and all the side content in about 8 hours... didn't rush either.

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 06:36 AM
I haven't ignored your argument, I simply find it wanting. Why do you insist on simplifying because of your single, solitary experience? You are ONE person out of millions that have played the game.




Because the typical players better represent the typical amount of time the story lasts, not the tiniest percentage of players like you.



A bold assumption, you really think nobody can do better than 8 hours? Your time is the shortest period and it's impossible to do it any quicker? That sounds a bit arrogant.



Yeah for a minority. A minority fails to represent the common amount of time it takes and therefore doesn't make sense to use. This is why we even bother with averages in the first place because they are the determining factor in nearly everything.

This is the equivalent of asking how difficult it is to level to max in a lengthy MMORPG, chances are there's going to be a larger majority that think a certain way.

In other words if I write a review on a game and consider the difficulty of leveling, I'm going to take into account not only what I think but what MOST people think, probably not the hardcore and numb veteran who has played the ever loving **** out of MMORPG's since they were 10 and is used to long grinds and complex mechanics.
Arrogant? quite ironic coming from someone who only spent the last 10 minutes telling me that I don't matter but sure, I'm pretty arrogant...I'v completed ACB hundreds of times, literally. I am a walking AC encyclopedia...I can recall every AC script by heart, I have carefully calculated each play-through of every AC game I played and I have come to the conclusion that the shortest time one can complete ACB's main story in is 8 hours, 3 minutes and 45 seconds. I didn't skip a single cutscene nor got desynced a single time, yes..i'm making pretty bold claims and yes, I am arrogant.

ACB's main story can be completed in 8 hours, end of story. no average, no majority, no nothing. it CAN be completed in 8 hours, it's possible, it's a reality. Period. I brought up NOTHING about majority, minority, average or the like, I only said that ACB's main story (with cutscenes) can be completed in 8 hours..this is not subjective, it's a fact and you're just going to have to accept that.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 06:47 AM
I finished the main story and all the side content in about 8 hours... didn't rush either.

Indeed but we're all hardcore fans who spend our days replaying the games and discussing them, we are not the majority.


Arrogant? quite ironic coming from someone who only spent the last 10 minutes telling me that I don't matter but sure, I'm pretty arrogant...I'v completed ACB hundreds of times, literally. I am a walking AC encyclopedia...I can recall every AC script by heart, I have carefully calculated each play-through of every AC game I played and I have come to the conclusion that the shortest time one can complete ACB's main story in is 8 hours, 3 minutes and 45 seconds. I didn't skip a single cutscene nor got desynced a single time, yes..i'm making pretty bold claims and yes, I am arrogant.

You don't matter and neither do I for that matter, we are part of a hardcore section of the fan base that is extremely devoted to the series. We don't represent the average player.

Secondly the rest of your points don't matter here, you are one person, that's not enough. Imagine if someone came out with a scientific law after only running one single test on one single set of objects.


ACB's main story can be completed in 8 hours, end of story. no average, no majority, no nothing. it CAN be completed in 8 hours, it's possible, it's a reality. Period. I brought up NOTHING about majority, minority, average or the like, I only said that ACB's main story (with cutscenes) can be completed in 8 hours..this is not subjective, it's a fact and you're just going to have to accept that.

I don't care if it's a reality, do you understand that yet? I don't care if you CAN do it. The average person DOESN'T do it. I don't care that you didn't bring up averages, I did because that's how you determine a variable.

I never said it wasn't a fact have you even been comprehending a shred of my posts at all? I don't care that it's a fact, I KNOW IT'S A FACT. Whether it's a fact or not though is 100% irrelevant.

We are a bunch of hard core fans, what we can and can't do does not apply to the average player of AC and therefore not the average completion time.

The completion time is the average NOT the slowest or fastest.

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 07:07 AM
Indeed but we're all hardcore fans who spend our days replaying the games and discussing them, we are not the majority.



You don't matter and neither do I for that matter, we are part of a hardcore section of the fan base that is extremely devoted to the series. We don't represent the average player.

Secondly the rest of your points don't matter here, you are one person, that's not enough. Imagine if someone came out with a scientific law after only running one single test on one single set of objects.



I don't care if it's a reality, do you understand that yet? I don't care if you CAN do it. The average person DOESN'T do it. I don't care that you didn't bring up averages, I did because that's how you determine a variable.

I never said it wasn't a fact have you even been comprehending a shred of my posts at all? I don't care that it's a fact, I KNOW IT'S A FACT. Whether it's a fact or not though is 100% irrelevant.

We are a bunch of hard core fans, what we can and can't do does not apply to the average player of AC and therefore not the average completion time.

The completion time is the average NOT the slowest or fastest.
*sigh* so you're admitting that you're bringing up arguments that have nothing to do with what I said? We're done here then. ACB takes 8 hours to complete.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 07:15 AM
*sigh* so you're admitting that you're bringing up arguments that have nothing to do with what I said? We're done here then. ACB takes 8 hours to complete.

That doesn't even make sense...

You're acting foolish M.

I'm allowed to bring up anything relevant to prove my point and the average time for the AVERAGE player of AC is relevant.

You seem to have a problem accepting that so that's your personal problem.

You CANNOT bring a group of people like us up and then claim that because we can beat the story in 8 hours that must be the time it takes to complete the story. Yeah it is for US not for the average player. For another group it could be a bit less and for another group a bit more YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE GOD DAMNED AVERAGE P-E-R-I-O-D.

I brought up averages because they are 100% relevant to this topic and it CANNOT be discussed without taking them into account.

ACB takes 8 hours to complete for us addicted mother****ers not normal gamers who are part of the less hardcore fan base.

It's not my fault that I'm trying to explain something simple and sensible and you simply refuse to listen to it. We are the outliers what we can do is not applicable in determining the length of the story because the length of story is NOT SET IN STONE. It is determined by the players and the largest group of players took 14 hours, so it is 14 hours.

I mean wth man? You might as well be saying that because it takes a master chef 5 minutes to cook a high quality complex dish then that must be the time it takes to complete the dish. Because that outlying percentage of professional chefs can cook that meal quickly.

Which is bullocks, the average person might take 10 minutes and thus that is the time it takes because it is the majority. Only someone who is well versed in the dish can make it in 5 minutes.

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 07:23 AM
That doesn't even make sense...

You're acting foolish M.

I'm allowed to bring up anything relevant to prove my point and the average time for the AVERAGE player of AC is relevant.

You seem to have a problem accepting that so that's your personal problem.

You CANNOT bring a group of people like us up and then claim that because we can beat the story in 8 hours that must be the time it takes to complete the story. Yeah it is for US not for the average player. For another group it could be a bit less and for another group a bit more YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE GOD DAMNED AVERAGE P-E-R-I-O-D.

I brought up averages because they are 100% relevant to this topic and it CANNOT be discussed without taking them into account.

ACB takes 8 hours to complete for us addicted mother****ers not normal gamers who are part of the less hardcore fan base.
Suuuuuuure, arrogant and now foolish.

Bringing up average, majority and minority would be relevant if it changes my statement. it changes nothing and it adds nothing to the discussion because it's NOT what i'm talking about. ACB's main story without skipping cutscenes takes 8 hours...that's it but you had to bring up average, minorities, majorities and whatever other dribble you brought up to make some vague point about how it's not the same to other players....I don't care how it is for the average player, you're barking up the wrong tree. The fact of the matter is, ACB's main story without skipping cutscenes is 8 hours long.

I never brought anyone up, I just said that ACB's main story without skipping cutscenes is 8 hours long..this is not a subjective statement, it's a fact. I never brought up hardcore gamers, softcore gamers, this forum, no one..Like I said, it can't be less for another group, unless that group is skipping cutscenes--I'm arrogant and I know what i'm talking about.

for us, for Venus, for Jesus, the fact remains is that it can be completed in 8 hours. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 07:31 AM
Suuuuuuure, arrogant and now foolish.

I said ACTING foolish. There's a very strong difference.


Bringing up average, majority and minority would be relevant if it changes my statement. it changes nothing and it adds nothing to the discussion because it's NOT what i'm talking about. ACB's main story without skipping cutscenes takes 8 hours...that's it but you had to bring up average, minorities, majorities and whatever other dribble you brought up to make some vague point about how it's not the same to other players....I don't care how it is for the average player, you're barking up the wrong tree. The fact of the matter is, ACB's main story without skipping cutscenes is 8 hours long.

I never brought anyone up, I just said that ACB's main story without skipping cutscenes is 8 hours long..this is not a subjective statement, it's a fact. I never brought up hardcore gamers, softcore gamers, this forum, no one..Like I said, it can't be less for another group, unless that group is skipping cutscenes--I'm arrogant and I know what i'm talking about.

for us, for Venus, for Jesus, the fact remains is that it can be completed in 8 hours. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

The point I was continually trying to make is that it isn't a fact, it's not set in stone. Not everyone is going to complete in 8 hours. Most people won't. A fact is something that is ALWAYS true. It's not always true here because nobody finishes a task at the same speed even if it's the exact same task.

Hence why I brought up averages because since the time is NOT set in stone the average determines the time.

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 07:33 AM
I said ACTING foolish. There's a very strong difference.
right.


The point I was continually trying to make is that it isn't a fact, it's not set in stone. Not everyone is going to complete in 8 hours. Most people won't. A fact is something that is ALWAYS true. It's not always true here because nobody finishes a task at the same speed even if it's the exact same task.
Hence why I brought up averages because since the time is NOT set in stone the average determines the time.
Did I say that everyone would complete it in 8 hours? What I called fact was that ACB's main story without skipping cutscenes can be completed in 8 hours...CAN be...CAN be. Point out where this is not fact.

HDinHB
08-12-2014, 07:34 AM
"Figures don't lie..." http://www.howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=661


How long does it take to run a marathon? How long does it take to run a mile?


What was the original topic of this thread? Oh yeah, absolute chaos. Still on topic then, I guess.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 07:39 AM
right.

Exactly, calling someone a fool is different than saying you are currently acting foolish. The former implies a permanent state while the latter implies a temporary state.



Did I say that everyone would complete it in 8 hours? What I called fact was that ACB's main story without skipping cutscenes can be completed in 8 hours...CAN be...CAN be. Point out where this is not fact.

Dude...

"I just said that ACB's main story without skipping cutscenes is 8 hours long..this is not a subjective statement, it's a fact."

There is no "can be" in that sentence only "it IS 8 hours"

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 07:50 AM
Exactly, calling someone a fool is different than saying you are currently acting foolish. The former implies a permanent state while the latter implies a temporary state.
Uh huh



Dude...

"I just said that ACB's main story without skipping cutscenes is 8 hours long..this is not a subjective statement, it's a fact."

There is no "can be" in that sentence only "it IS 8 hours"
Because it is. I don't see a contradiction here.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 07:57 AM
Uh huh

Argggggh well FINE! Think I insulted you, be that way!


Because it is. I don't see a contradiction here.

The whole point of my argument is saying it's not a fact because it's not set in stone, then you said this;

"Did I say that everyone would complete it in 8 hours? What I called fact was that ACB's main story without skipping cutscenes can be completed in 8 hours...CAN be...CAN be. Point out where this is not fact."

So I'm like, oh okay I guess he was just saying it CAN BE 8 hours you still don't see the contradiction?

Basically in the first sentence you say that it is factually 8 hours long period. Then in the next sentence you say it CAN be 8 hours. Make up your mind.

The only fact is that it CAN be completed in 8 hours, it is not a fact that the length is most certainly 8 hours.

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 08:06 AM
Argggggh well FINE! Think I insulted you, be that way!
I don't think you insulted me.




The whole point of my argument is saying it's not a fact because it's not set in stone, then you said this;

"Did I say that everyone would complete it in 8 hours? What I called fact was that ACB's main story without skipping cutscenes can be completed in 8 hours...CAN be...CAN be. Point out where this is not fact."

So I'm like, oh okay I guess he was just saying it CAN BE 8 hours you still don't see the contradiction?

Basically in the first sentence you say that it is factually 8 hours long period. Then in the next sentence you say it CAN be 8 hours. Make up your mind.

The only fact is that it CAN be completed in 8 hours, it is not a fact that the length is most certainly 8 hours.
I don't see the difference between can and is. if it can be completed in 8 hours then 8 hours it is to take to complete. if it CAN, then it is--it's a conditional sentence, saying it does not negate ANYTHING from what you said, it doesn't negate the average completion time nor anything else that you mentioned. If it can be completed in 8 hours, then it is 8 hours long but the average time of completion is 14 hours...no contradiction whatsoever.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 08:12 AM
I don't think you insulted me.

Damnit man, help me out a bit and use /sarcasm then x_x




I don't see the difference between can and is. if it can be completed in 8 hours then 8 hours it is to take to complete. if it CAN, then it is--it's a conditional sentence, saying it does not negate ANYTHING from what you said, it doesn't negate the average completion time nor anything else that you mentioned. If it can be completed in 8 hours, then it is 8 hours long but the average time of completion is 14 hours...no contradiction whatsoever.

I'm very picky with word choices. VERY picky as you surely know by now.

In any case I get what you're trying to say but to me can=/=is if a newbie were to ask how long it would take to complete ACB, I'd say 14 hours, as little as 8 hours is possible but 14 is the most likely.

I'd like to say It's because I'm logical or something like that but I highly doubt that lol. My thought processes are probably seen as unorthodox by many.

In any case I see the merit of your point so yeah I'll call it quits now I think.

Well whatever, stick around M, I can't have long *** debates with anyone else around here ;P nobody else has the endurance.

Assassin_M
08-12-2014, 08:23 AM
Damnit man, help me out a bit and use /sarcasm then x_x
but it's more fun that way:p



I'm very picky with word choices. VERY picky as you surely know by now.

In any case I get what you're trying to say but to me can=/=is if a newbie were to ask how long it would take to complete ACB, I'd say 14 hours, as little as 8 hours is possible but 14 is the most likely.

I'd like to say It's because I'm logical or something like that but I highly doubt that lol. My thought processes are probably seen as unorthodox by many.

In any case I see the merit of your point so yeah I'll call it quits now I think.

Well whatever, stick around M, I can't have long *** debates with anyone else around here ;P nobody else has the endurance.
You're definitely unorthodox and picky, my god man, you turn the simplest of debates and discussions into these huge lectures but it's good that we came to an understanding.

Ah, then I shall try to give you my best every time we argue.

Sesheenku
08-12-2014, 08:37 AM
but it's more fun that way:p

Such dastardliness!


You're definitely unorthodox and picky, my god man, you turn the simplest of debates and discussions into these huge lectures but it's good that we came to an understanding.

Ah, then I shall try to give you my best every time we argue.

Ah lol oh well we can't all be orthodox ;P.

My lengthening of simple things is because I genuinely do want to understand the opponents points but I'm stubborn and because of the unorthodox and pickiness of my thought processes the smallest things can cause me to continue.

Thanks dude ;P I'll see you later, it's late as hell lol.