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XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 09:37 PM
Superb P-38 on the update page.Looks great close up. I would be interested to know what it looks like in game at longer ranges.Some of the aircraft at present look like cereal packets stuck together at longer range.


"Spring chicken to shyte-hawk in one easy lesson"

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 09:37 PM
Superb P-38 on the update page.Looks great close up. I would be interested to know what it looks like in game at longer ranges.Some of the aircraft at present look like cereal packets stuck together at longer range.


"Spring chicken to shyte-hawk in one easy lesson"

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 09:39 PM
The 38 is beautifully done...a work of art indeed. Can't wait to see if gets a sturdy FM with some teeth to go with the skin.



TX-Zen
Black 6
TX Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM only)


http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/tx-zen/Zensig2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 10:03 PM
It terms of firepower, it will pack a nasty wallop with that cannon... IMO though it will probably be a easy kill if you end up dueling 190s and 109s. Unless its a low altitude turn fight at very low speeds, that is...

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 11:15 PM
I think it will hold its own. Luftwaffa pilots were instructed not to enguage P-38's in combat and dive away.

As for the LOD, hows this? This is the lowest LOD out of 4 levels. This is at 200 pollygons and should only be about 3 pixels in the distance http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.gibbageart.com/images/p-38-79.jpg


Korolov wrote:
- It terms of firepower, it will pack a nasty wallop
- with that cannon... IMO though it will probably be a
- easy kill if you end up dueling 190s and 109s.
- Unless its a low altitude turn fight at very low
- speeds, that is...
-
-



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XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 11:19 PM
Oh boy, I bet the luftwaffle elite and flight data people will come in because of what you said Gibbage LOL! No offense intended... Just seems likely.

Regardless, I'll fly it whatever the circumstances. Looks like I'll be stuck in 43/44 planesets from now on...

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 11:57 PM
Well its true. I did not say the P-38 was the best. They always think I say that because thats what they want me to say. Here is my openion on the P-38

It was the best twin engine fighter of the war. I think this we can all agree on. I also think it can hold its own against most single engine fighters. I do think the La7 and Yak3 will out class it in every way, but in IL2 they outclass everything http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But a good pilot should be able to use its low stall speeds and flaps to get low and dirty, plus its high accelleration and good climb to get him out of a bad mess. The P-38 could for a short time turn inside a Zero, and stall fight them due to its counter rotating props and flaps. Also on the L the alaron boost and dive flaps will help it. I have a few pilot accounts that say deploying the dive flaps will give you a quick nose up in a tight turn to help you get your guns on the target.

Gib

Korolov wrote:
- Oh boy, I bet the luftwaffle elite and flight data
- people will come in because of what you said Gibbage
- LOL! No offense intended... Just seems likely.
-
- Regardless, I'll fly it whatever the circumstances.
- Looks like I'll be stuck in 43/44 planesets from now
- on...
-
<img
- src="http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a
- .jpg">
-



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XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 12:05 AM
So with the L model having a K-14 gunsight, will we be seeing some really accurate fire coming from the P-38L model? And will the P-38J be a 1943 version?

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 12:33 AM
Ya, im doing a rather early J version for 1943.

Gib

Korolov wrote:
- So with the L model having a K-14 gunsight, will we
- be seeing some really accurate fire coming from the
- P-38L model? And will the P-38J be a 1943 version?
-
<img
- src="http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a
- .jpg">
-



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XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 01:04 AM
*Sigh*Once the P-38 comes out,I'm going to have to put my Jug away for awhile. I guess I'll have to relegate the P-47 to ground attack,due to the inaccurate engine DM(too sensitive),and the fact that the high-alt that the P-47 thrives in,isn't modelled. I just can't dogfight effectively in my Jug. Then again,the P-38 seems pretty potent in the ground attack role,too.I just can't wait to fly the Lightning. I'm trying to decide which varient to fly.

47|FC
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p47-6.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 06:36 PM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- As for the LOD, hows this? This is the lowest LOD
- out of 4 levels. This is at 200 pollygons and
- should only be about 3 pixels in the distance /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
http://www.gibbageart.com/images/p-38-79.jpg
-

Gibbage1,
Thanks for replying to my original question.I thought my post had been hijacked there for a while/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The LOD looks good. Why only 4 levels? Wouldnt more levels make a smoother transition? I dont know too much about this but willing to learn/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


"Spring chicken to shyte-hawk in one easy lesson"

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 09:32 PM
Was P-38 a coldest aeroplane in the world? No heater?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 09:40 PM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- I think it will hold its own. Luftwaffa pilots were
- instructed not to enguage P-38's in combat and dive
- away.


Looks like somebody was breaking the rules! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/lightning.html


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 09:44 PM
Avi8or wrote:
- Was P-38 a coldest aeroplane in the world? No
- heater?
-
- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

It had a heater, it was just ineffective on earlier models. That was corrected with the J model.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/corsairs.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 10:14 PM
Come on...I love the P-38 too but br real....in air combat over Germany, the Lightning was generally outclassed by the more maneuverable Fw 190 and the later marks of the Bf 109, especially at medium and low altitudes. However, the Lightning had a much faster top speed, a higher rate of climb and operational ceiling and was much better armed. Once pilots had perfected fighting tactics which suited the Lightning's unique characteristics, they had better success. The usual tactics was for the P-38 to climb to a high altitude and then dive down on the enemy, attacking him with a burst of firepower and then zoom back up out of harm's way. The later versions of the P-38 were equipped with maneuvering flaps, and when their pilots learned how to use these flaps properly, the P-38 could hold its own when maneuvering against German fighters, often being able to turn inside their Fw 190 and Bf 109 opponents.

The large size of the P-38 was both an advantage and a disadvantage in combat. The P-38 was quite large for a fighter, and Luftwaffe pilots could usually spot the Lockheed fighter at much larger distances than they could Allied single-engined fighters which were appreciably smaller. In addition, the twin-boomed configuration of the P-38 made it instantly recognizable to the enemy. However, this ease of recognition was not always a disadvantage--P-38s would often feel free to pursue Luftwaffe fighters right through Allied bomber formations with little fear of receiving friendly fire from the gunners.

The Allison engines of the Lightnings proved to be somewhat temperamental, with engine failures actually causing more problems than enemy action. It is estimated that every Lightning in England changed its engines at least once. Nevertheless, the ability of the Lightning to return home on one engine was exceptional and saved the life of the pilot of many a wounded Lightning. Experienced pilots could handle the Lightning satisfactorily at high altitude, but too many of the Eighth Air Force pilots did not have the training or experience to equip them for flying this temperamentally-powered aircraft in combat.

The powerplant problems were not entirely the Allison engine's fault. Many of the reliability problems were actually due to the inadequate cooling system, in particular the cumbersome plumbing of the turbosupercharger intercooler ducting which directed air all way from the supercharger out to the wingtips and back. In addition, the lack of cowl flaps were a problem. In the European theatre of operation, temperatures at altitude were often less than 40 degrees below zero and the Lightning's engines would never get warmed up enough for the oil to be able to flow adequately. Octane and lead would separate out of the fuel at these low temperatures, causing the Allisons to eat valves with regularity, to backfire through the intercooler ducts, and to throw rods, sometimes causing the engine to catch fire.

These problems bedeviled the Lightnings until the advent of the J version with its simplified intercooler ducting and the relocation of the oil cooler to a chin position underneath the propeller spinner. When the P-38J reached the field, the Allison engine was finally able to attain its full rated power at altitude, and the engine failure rate began to go down.

Earlier Lightnings had problems with high-speed dives. When the airspeed reached a sufficiently high value, the controls would suddenly lock up and the Lightning would tuck its nose down, making recovery from the dive difficult. In the worst case, the wings of the Lightning could be ripped off if the speed got too high. This problem caused the Lightning often to be unable to follow its Luftwaffe opponents in a dive, causing many of the enemy to be able to escape unscathed. The problem was eventually traced to the formation of a shock wave over the wing as the Lightning reached transonic speeds, this shock wave causing the elevator to lose much of its effectiveness. The problem was not cured until the advent of the P-38J-25-LO, which introduced a set of compressibility flaps under the wing which changed the pattern of the shock wave over the wing when they were extended, restoring the function of the elevator.

The P-38J version of the Lightning cured many of the ills that had been suffered by the earlier versions of the Lockheed fighter, producing a truly world-class fighter which could mix it up with virtually any other fighter in the world.

In April 1944, the Lightnings of the 20th Fighter Group began low level fighter sweeps over the Continent. That same month, the 55th Fighter Group used the "Droop Snoot" P-38J for the first time as a leader for other Lightnings in a bombing raid on the Coulommiers airfield. Both types of operations proved successful, and these techniques were later used extensively by P-38s of the Ninth Air Force.

The P-38s of the Eighth Air Force were rapidly phased out of service in favor of P-51 Mustangs--The 20th, 55th, and 364th Fighter Groups converted to P-51s during July 1944, and in September the 479th Fighter Group traded in its P-38Js for P-51Ds.

The Ninth Air Force was assigned a tactical role (in contrast to the strategic role of the Eighth Air Force), and retained its P-38J/L fighters a bit longer. Its first Lightning group was the 474th, which flew its first combat mission on April 15, 1944. It was soon joined by the 367th and 370th Fighter Groups. However, in March of 1945 these two latter groups converted to P-47Ds and P-51Ds respectively. By V-E day the 474th was the only Fighter Group still operating P-38s.

More than one in eight Lightnings were either completed by Lockheed as photographic-reconnaissance aircraft or were so modified after delivery. Over 1400 F-5 and F-5 aircraft were delivered to the USAAF. Photographic Lightnings saw widespread service throughout the war. F-4s were first flown in combat beginning in November 1942. They were operated initially by the 5th and 12th Photographic Reconnaissance Squadrons. Later, these units and two other squadrons of the 3rd Photographic Reconnaissance Group operated various versions of the F-5. In the North African theatre, the 154th Reconnaissance Squadron obtained its photographic Lightnings when its maintenance personnel modified a number of P-38Fs in the field. The F-5-equipped 5th Photographic Reconnaissance Group was initially assigned to the Twelfth Air Force and became operational in September 1943. However it was transferred to the Fifteenth Air Force thirteen months later. In the European theatre, where the 3rd PRG had briefly been based before transfer to North Africa, the first operational sorties by photographic Lightnings was flown by F-4As of the 7th PRG on March 28, 1943. This group successively operated F-4As, F-5As, F-5Bs, F-5Cs, and finally, during the last year of the war, F-5Es. Operating initially from bases in England but later moving to the Continent, the Ninth Air Force had for Photographic Reconnaissance squadrons (the 30th, 32st, 33rd, and 34th), which flew various versions of the F-5 from the spring of 1944 until the end of the war.


Fly safe!
~Swine

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 12:02 AM
It is published in many books that the P-38 could out turn the bf 109 and fw 190. Not that the two german planes were known for steller turn performance.

one source for documented turning performance is in americas hundred thousand by Mr. Dean. it states that the P-63 turned about the same as a P-38 if the P-38 used combat flaps. it goes on to say that the P-63 could get on the P-51's tail in 3 to 4 turns and on the P-47s tail in two turns. since it is well published that the P-51 could out turn the bf-109 and fw 190 this would lead me to believe that the P-38 could out turn the german planes.

also in americas hundred thousand it states that german pilots felt that the P-38 had superior fire power and it wasnt advised to go head to head against the P-38. the german pilots also say that they felt the P-38 could out turn them.

I'm long winded, in the book "55th fighter group vs the luftwaffe" by gray. a german pilot named Flieger Horst Petzschler said "The P-38 had its positive attributes which we respected. At higher altitudes it was faster and it could out turn both the focke wulf 190 and the messerschmitt 109. It was faster in a dive, but this was probably due to it being a heavier aircraft."

Leutnant Anton "toni" Hafner said "the P-38 was a hard fighter to combat and was equal to the bf-109 in maneuverablility. he respected the nose armament, toni was quite amazed at the beating it could take and remain flying"

P-38 by caiden. Hans Pichler said "in my estamation the P-38 was more maneuverable and faster than our bf-109G-6, especially since it was equipped with two 2cm under wing gondola weapons. I had never been keen on dogfights with the P-38, but I did manage to shoot down three of them pluse four or five mitchells."

I could dig for more material like this in my books if you like. I have about 40 books on the P-38

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 01:31 AM
pinche_gabacho,

Do you have Warren Bodie's "The Lockheed P-38 Lightning"?


pinche_gabacho wrote:
- I could dig for more material like this in my books
- if you like. I have about 40 books on the P-38
-
-

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 02:11 AM
If we get something like a G or F model, it'd be pretty good matchup.

If we get the late Js and Ls.. it's gonna be really troublesome for the LW planes.





-----------
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ZG77_Nagual
09-07-2003, 02:17 AM
The thing about the p-38 - there was alot to flying it - and even more to flying it well - this is why we get such diverging views on how good it was. I think in the hands of someone who'd truly mastered it it was an awesome dogfighter- and reports bear this out. At least one german ace said it was the allied aircraft he respected most. Just read around - this is a plane with a very flexible flight envelope particularly in terms of turning - it just depended on who was flying it.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 02:41 AM
Lance42 wrote:
- pinche_gabacho,
-
- Do you have Warren Bodie's "The Lockheed P-38
- Lightning"?

yes I have a copy of warren bodies P-38 book.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 02:55 AM
pinche_gabacho wrote:
-
- Lance42 wrote:
-- pinche_gabacho,
--
-- Do you have Warren Bodie's "The Lockheed P-38
-- Lightning"?
-
- yes I have a copy of warren bodies P-38 book.

Excellent! I have it on the way.



Message Edited on 09/07/0301:58AM by Lance42

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 03:04 AM
Gibbage is the man! I am so glad to see that we are going to be getting some of the better American planes in the future. I know that the game is supposed to be centered on the Eastern front but as an American I am looking forward to these American planes. I am sure the German and Russian players of this game feel the same way about their planes. Once we have the P-51's, P-38, and F4U I will be a happy man. I am already thinking of a bunch of Pacific scenarios with the Zero, B-17 and my favorite American fighter (yet to be decided).

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 03:56 AM
I'm looking forward to F4U vs. FW duels.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 04:29 AM
Treehugger,
A couple of notes for you, first compressability (The nose down thing you spoke of) was found in all fighters of the war, some showed the signs faster and were more violent, the 38 had it bad because when she started to dive she picked up speed very, very quickly. The reason the LW dove away from 38's wasn't because they could dive faster, they couldn't, it's because they knew that the 38 drivers wouldn't follow for fear of building up too much speed and not being able to get out of the dive. Because of this, they didn't like to BnZ because your dives had to be short. It turned into a BnZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZthud.
The favorite tactic in the pacific for the 38 was to wait at high altitudes and then bounce the Japanese as they were at the top of their climbs. They were told not to turn fight with the zero because they were very hard to turn with and it had to be at low speeds, at medium to high speeds the zero could easily out turn the 38. The 38 could easily out dive in a shallow dive the Zero and pull quickly away from them.
BTW, the P-47 and P-51 also had a big problem with it as well. There are also reports the Germans ran into the same issues.
They patched the problem by using the dive brakes which were retrofitted to the J's and production on the L's.
You make the mistake of using the 8th AF for any kind of information on the ability of the 38. They hated them because of the early F and G problems.
Alot of the arguments that you post about the 38 is based on the older versions and from everything that I have seen so far, we are getting the J version so lots of these issues should be mute.
The 38's weakness is initial roll rate, it took alot of time to get those wings rolling, which made medium to high speed turn fights a bear to get into, but once there they performed very well. I don't know how this will get modeled but I hope they can get it good enough to feel accurate.
The comment about the pilot being the deciding factor for the P-38 must not realize that you could be in the most advanced fighter in the world, but if the pilot can't make it work, it is just high priced junk. The plane is only as good as the pilot and a well trained pilot can make a ho hum plane a dangerous beast to fight.
This plane will take some getting used to, and like the P-39 will become an argument maker. ;-D
Mirthain=FC=

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 04:44 AM
1 note. The P-38 was a good dive bomber in the Pacific. How? Because the compressability problems only happened on dives at high altitude. In the thicker air down low it was not a problem. As for the roll, a good P-38 pilot could turn roll it better then any fighter using engime management. Remember, the counter props were used to kill torque. Lower the throttle on one engine, and the torque will take over. Helping the pilot roll. A P-38 pilot in a mock dogfight was able to stay on the tail of a Spitfire. The Spitfire pilot left the demonstration in fustration.

Gib

Mirthain wrote:
- Treehugger,
- A couple of notes for you, first
- compressability (The nose down thing you spoke of)
- was found in all fighters of the war, some showed
- the signs faster and were more violent, the 38 had
- it bad because when she started to dive she picked
- up speed very, very quickly. The reason the LW dove
- away from 38's wasn't because they could dive
- faster, they couldn't, it's because they knew that
- the 38 drivers wouldn't follow for fear of building
- up too much speed and not being able to get out of
- the dive. Because of this, they didn't like to BnZ
- because your dives had to be short. It turned into
- a BnZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZthud.
-
- The favorite tactic in the pacific for the 38 was to
- wait at high altitudes and then bounce the Japanese
- as they were at the top of their climbs. They were
- told not to turn fight with the zero because they
- were very hard to turn with and it had to be at low
- speeds, at medium to high speeds the zero could
- easily out turn the 38. The 38 could easily out
- dive in a shallow dive the Zero and pull quickly
- away from them.
- BTW, the P-47 and P-51 also had a big problem with
- it as well. There are also reports the Germans ran
- into the same issues.
- They patched the problem by using the dive brakes
- which were retrofitted to the J's and production on
- the L's.
- You make the mistake of using the 8th AF for any
- kind of information on the ability of the 38. They
- hated them because of the early F and G problems.
- Alot of the arguments that you post about the 38 is
- based on the older versions and from everything that
- I have seen so far, we are getting the J version so
- lots of these issues should be mute.
- The 38's weakness is initial roll rate, it took alot
- of time to get those wings rolling, which made
- medium to high speed turn fights a bear to get into,
- but once there they performed very well. I don't
- know how this will get modeled but I hope they can
- get it good enough to feel accurate.
- The comment about the pilot being the deciding
- factor for the P-38 must not realize that you could
- be in the most advanced fighter in the world, but if
- the pilot can't make it work, it is just high priced
- junk. The plane is only as good as the pilot and a
- well trained pilot can make a ho hum plane a
- dangerous beast to fight.
- This plane will take some getting used to, and like
- the P-39 will become an argument maker. ;-D
- Mirthain=FC=
-
-



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XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 04:45 AM
The P-38 'compression' issues were a bit different.

They were from a design flaw in the tail booms, which took the latter models a separate dive flap, to correct.



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Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

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ZG77_Nagual
09-07-2003, 05:16 AM
That and way greasy aerodynamics!

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 05:28 AM
Biggest disadvantage - Side visibility! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

So, when do you think we'll see this bird show up? 2 months? Winter? Next year?

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 05:41 AM
the recognition aspect can be well imagined. I remember playing a rear gunner in a game called B-17 Flying fortress: The mighty Eighth, and I had difficulty telling incoming fighters apart, except for the P-38, which was obviously different.

I bet the air gunners of the 8th AF were a lot less nervous being escorted by P-38s



cheers,
Tony
(flying as "wombat" on HL)


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oh yeah, and I'm a Whirlwind whiner too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 06:12 AM
Gibbage1 wrote:
-
- It was the best twin engine fighter of the war. I
- think this we can all agree on.
-

Wrong. The F7F Tigercat managed to be deployed on one attack run before the end of the war. So there, nya /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif :goof: :crazy: /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

On a more serious note, the P-38 was a good aircraft, that through incremental improvements and refinements became a truely great fighter. The main complaints lodged against the Lighting were, as others have said, problems of the early model aircraft, and by the end of the production run, were completely fixed.

Harry Voyager

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Message Edited on 09/07/0312:31AM by HarryVoyager

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 06:23 AM
Even in the early variants savvy 38 pilots could avoid the shock wave by rolling from side to side (which was good for SA anyway) in the dive. Going to full fine helped too. And as was said, this was only neccessary until you got below below 20k which would only be a matter of seconds. That said, it rarely occurred in the ETO since during the period 38s served escort duty they had to remain tied to the bombers and also because most 38 drivers were simply too tentative/timid. (Nagual was spot on in his a post above)

In the PTO 38s could turn INSIDE a Zeke at 200mph, but again this was rarely done since you would'nt want to get that slow in a combat area. (esp.the SPTO/SWPTO)

The duel with the Spit Gibbage brought up was against a Mark XV or XIV (whatever had the Griffon) piloted by a RAF Commodore something or other ace. After condescedingly presenting a lecture to 364th FG about the superior qualities of the Spitfire he requested a volunteer to join him in mock combat after which he was to land to conclude with a summary. Flying an H variant Col.John Lowell met the Brit head on at 5k, immediately got on his tail where he stayed for 20 min. The Spit driver finally split essed and bailed for home blowing off his lecture wrap up. Lowell followed him thru the split ess. This famous event was witnessed by all the pilots attending and others. I got this from Joe Foss' book "Top Guns. BTW, Lowell was the 38 pilot who mauled Galland before having to RTB for lack of fuel. (Lowell was RTBing when he ran into the Doras.)



Message Edited on 09/07/0305:38AM by Lance42

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 09:48 AM
I think the mock combat between the spit and the 38 was a 38F against the spit IX. I have read this in books. I have never read one where the spit was a mk XIV, but I havent read every book either.

The reason why the 38F could hang with the spit IX was because the 38F was running the revised manifold pressure adopted by many units of the 8th airforce. they ran 52" for 1,450 hp instead of the rated 47" and 1,325hp

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 07:35 PM
I thought it was a 38F also but the account I came across first on the net before I posted (to check) claimed it was an H. I'll check Foss' book soon but I don't think it gave the Lightning version but did for the Spit.

Where did you get the manifold pressure factoid?

pinche_gabacho wrote:
- I think the mock combat between the spit and the 38
- was a 38F against the spit IX. I have read this in
- books. I have never read one where the spit was a mk
- XIV, but I havent read every book either.
-
- The reason why the 38F could hang with the spit IX
- was because the 38F was running the revised manifold
- pressure adopted by many units of the 8th airforce.
- they ran 52" for 1,450 hp instead of the rated 47"
- and 1,325hp
-
-
-
-
-

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 10:01 PM
Lance 42, check your book by foss, I dont have that book, I think I ordered it. it could be a different mock battle.

I have several P-38 books that list a mock battle between a spitfire IX and a P-38F. the book that has the best information is Vee's for Victory by whitney. it even has a chart with the speeds for the spitfire and 38F.

here are the speeds for the 38F

47.5" 3,000 rpm 345 mph S.L.
49.5" 3,000 rpm 352 mph S.L.
47.5" 3,000 rpm 418 mph 26,000 ft

spitfire IX 16lb boost 62"

310 mph S.L.
408 mph 27,000 ft

The 8th fighter command established P-38 combat ratings

P-38F handbook 1,150 hp take off to 25,000ft

8th FC after 8/15/42 1,300 hp 47" 10,000 ft

8th FC after 8/15/42 1,250 hp 45" 20,000 ft

proposed by col. kelsey 1,325 hp 47" 20,000 ft

8th FC after 8/23/42 1,250 hp 45" 25,000 ft, note after 2 months of operating with these ratings no engine failures had been reported.

future proposal by 8th DC 1,450 hp 52" 11,000ft

I think these higher engine settings had a lot to do with why the 38F competed on equal terms with the spitfire IX

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 10:19 PM
I've got to get the Foss book back from library. When I do I'll PM you the entire story as told by Lowell.



Message Edited on 09/07/0309:25PM by Lance42

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 06:13 AM
In reference to fighting the Zero and other Japanese aircraft. Allied pilots were told NOT to get into a slow turning fight due to the maneuvering abilities of their enemy. The Zero for instance had large ailerons and at high speeds, they would not respond as quick. Allied pilots were told to try and stay above 300 mph because of this. (This came from a Marine pilot I once met).

As far as the turning ability of the 38, we will be hard pressed to simulate this. The reason being is the dual throttle controls in the 38. By lowering the power setting in one or the other and full on the opposite, they were able to turn with them, using combat flaps as well. If anyone has this ability to have dual controls, please pass along this information, I would like to know how.