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View Full Version : People WITHOUT track ir (poll)



eXtra_Corrosiv
07-27-2004, 10:28 PM

eXtra_Corrosiv
07-27-2004, 10:28 PM

wayno7777
07-27-2004, 10:33 PM
I voted the hat but I do use the mouse from time to time.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/FB%20shots/Aircraft/TA-152pic.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

Jumoschwanz
07-27-2004, 10:58 PM
A lot of guys swear by track IR. I tried it and do not use it.
I have been on HL for two and a half years and right now I use a hat switch, a button on the base for "straight up". with a combo of the two and rocking the wings I can see anything. When you push the hat straight ahead set it so that you "look forward". I also have the flaps on two base buttons. I can fly on a dogfight server and once in the air never have to touch the keyboard or mouse. This makes it very simple and instinctual to fly. NO fumbling around. ONe hand on the stick and one on the base. The fewer things you have to fumble with the more you can concentrate on the task at hand. My setup is as simple as it gets.

I really like the padlock that is built into the sim. If one learns to use it well, in combo with the above hat-switch method, nothing else is neccesary. There is for some reason a lot of prejudice against padlock. In the early days of Il2, before trackIR, those who became proficient with padlock kicked a$$. Those who never learned to use it and got their a$$es kicked of course did not want it out there, and a movement against it being enabled on servers began. The old argument against padlock being used to locate targets has lost it's basis in reality since padlock has been reduced in range in a recent patch, and it would be nice if it were reduced to one kilometer. This way it could be once and for all, used as a tool to turn ones virtual head to track an opponent, and not be bad-mouthed as a tool to find nearby enemies.

Even back then all a server had to do was disable icons and no one would know if it was locking onto an enemy or friendly. But for some reason those who cry about padlock being unrealistic, do not want to learn how to manually identify the other planes in the air as friend or foe!

I am sure someone who is smart can set up the hat switch and base buttons, and learn to use them so as to be on equal footing with anyone online no matter what technology they have. IN one on one dogfights I often get my a$$ kicked, but this is on full real servers with those I have seen over the last few years to be the very best. And it is not unusual for me, when I am having a good night and am not tired, to give a lot of them a really hard time.

Have fun!

Jumoschwanz

Mirtma
07-27-2004, 11:05 PM
Well, I use coolie hat, but with great utility: NewView. Without it, coolie is useless. So I think, you should put another choice in pool: - I use some utility with coolie.

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/McMatt/sig_LP.jpg
---------------------------
Athlon XP 2000+
1024 Mb DDram
Sapphire Radeon 9600/256
Audigy2 ZS
Zalman Theatre 6 Headphones
Saitek Cyborg Evo
---------------------------

georgeo76
07-27-2004, 11:23 PM
I use a snapview hat in conjunction w/ the mouse cursor on my X45. This keeps me competitive on on the non-PL servers because it's just as effective as TIR. (In that it gives me instant, unrestricted, and intuitive view options).

I honestly don't understand how anyone can get by w/ just a hat switch on a non-PL server.(Although many obviously do). Before my X45, I used pan view and you wouldn't catch me on an non-PL server.

Your view system is the most important element of SA. I would use the keyboard for weapons before I would view commands.

3.JG51_Stecher
07-27-2004, 11:32 PM
I use the hat for vertical and number pad for horizontal. It's just a matter of getting used to whatever you use and it becomes second nature.

http://flygirl.dnsalias.com:8080/jg51/190sig.jpg


3./Jagdgeschwader 51
3./JG51_Stecher
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

Udidtoo
07-27-2004, 11:55 PM
I just use the hat on my stick. After 2 years its second nature and I can pan around and stil perform manuvers reasonably well.

I never could get a decent feel for reaching for a mouse when there is a device right there where mother nature conveniently placed my thumb.

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

PinkPriest
07-28-2004, 01:04 AM
Coolie Hat.

Tried newview when I didn't have a hat, but since I got my X-45 I prefer to use the coolie without Newview. Centerview is programmed to another button.

Weather_Man
07-28-2004, 01:20 AM
Actually, I just hit F6 when I need to look around. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://banners.wunderground.com/banner/smalltemptr/language/www/US/TX/Dallas.gif

Udidtoo
07-28-2004, 01:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weather_Man:
Actually, I just hit F6 when I need to look around. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://banners.wunderground.com/banner/smalltemptr/language/www/US/TX/Dallas.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

Dolemite-
07-28-2004, 01:27 AM
I use the mouse, changed the mouse speed to 2.1 Thats all you need.

___________________________________________
Flying on HL as {Dolemite}
http://www.talonse.com/supergreg.swf &lt;----- ya wont regret it

NegativeGee
07-28-2004, 01:29 AM
Microstick assigned as mouse axis on Cougar.

Works very nicely.

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - G√ľnther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

TheGozr
07-28-2004, 01:34 AM
Dolemite-

posted 28-07-04 00:27
I use the mouse, changed the mouse speed to 2.1 Thats all you need.



Hum hum!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/images/IOCompetition.jpg &lt;--Competition Level IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/)

Tully__
07-28-2004, 02:06 AM
Mouse emulation on a joystick hat - Saitek X-45 feature http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/sig.jpg

Tully's X-45 profile (SST drivers) (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip)

Salut
Tully

DD_NL
07-28-2004, 03:52 AM
I use a small utility called JoytoKey. It makes the hatswitch move around as if I was using the mouse (smooth, fast).

http://home.tiscali.nl/ddonline/IL-2/nighthawk.jpg

ASM 1
07-28-2004, 04:02 AM
I use the mouse - but then I have an MS Trackball, which makes things VERY easy indeed... I have also used the coolie hat on my FFB2 from time to time

@wayno - nice sig m8 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

Andrew

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/asm016/WW2%20Stuff/Sig_Pic.jpg

73GIAP_GSXR1000
07-28-2004, 04:05 AM
i use my hat switch with a program called Joy2Key, basically it changes the way the switch works, so in short ive turned my hat switch into a mouse as it works out of IL2

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/TransAm/da04caef.jpg

PC Specs:- Pentium 4 3 Gig
512MB Ram
GeForce FX5200 61.76 drivers
Windows XP (Home Edition)
Direct X 9b
Realtek AC97 Audio sound card

F19_Ob
07-28-2004, 04:07 AM
I use hatswitch.
The lookaroundroutine is important, so here is a good tip:

When searching the rear U can, for example, look "backleft+up" in a gentle turn and when finished in upper rear just roll slowly with same view applied to see below and behind, add some rudder to swing the view a bit.
This covers the whole rear sector with one view only. Its so efficent that u dont have to look at other side= no blind spots.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

[]_---_[] KITT
07-28-2004, 04:38 AM
Errr what is a hatswitch?
switches on the hat? hehehe
excuse my stuupid question..but then again i heard that there's no such thing as stupid question...only stupid answers.....
Thx

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/roh_kudus/Sig_small.gif
"He is St Peter"
"People with power can afford to show their ugly faces to ordinary people"-Empirically tested

bazzaah2
07-28-2004, 04:41 AM
mouse works well for me and will save the cash for a throttle; then I'll really have to contort!

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_05.gif

Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

leadbaloon
07-28-2004, 06:22 AM
I use the mouse, it took a little getting used to, but now it's easy. I have the centre gunsight (Shift + F1) key on my left mouse button (enables me to "lean" slightly to see around cockpit bars or get a better view to my rear), and the wide, normal and gunsight view on my right. I have the hat switch set to snap view, so all I've got to do is touch it and my view is centred.

Works for me.

von_Albert
07-28-2004, 07:03 AM
I have the same basic setup as Leadbaloon. Using the mouse to look around has become second nature. I set up the left mouse button as wheel brakes, and the right mouse button cycles between zoom views in the cockpit. The scroll wheel is my throttle. It's a true HOTAS control system that includes the ability to quickly look in any direction.

horseback
07-28-2004, 08:29 AM
I've never been able to adjust to padlock; it always led to a me drilling a hole in the ground. I have tough time using my mouse (I use a trackball - uses less space & works the same for either hand) while in flight.

I use snap view; I have found that by assigning a button on my stick to Look Up, I can press Look Up at the same time as I move my POV hat and move my line of sight up 45 degrees, essentially doubling my potential views. In cockpit, this allows me to see everything available to me through the canopy in Wide View. Similarly, I use a button assigned to Look Down to look around in the cockpit, in conjunction with the POV. Of course, the key is finding buttons you can press at the same time you're working the hatswitch. Mine are the ones under my left pinkie and ring fingers.

Admittedly, I have a HOTAS with 30 buttons to work with, plus the hat, so I also use the #3 button (in LW planes; how often do you use rockets?) to Toggle FOV, and I have the POV on my throttle (manipulating the joystick POV hat while in a tight turn leads to stalls).

Works for me.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

eXtra_Corrosiv
07-28-2004, 08:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roh_Kudus:
Errr what is a hatswitch?
switches on the hat? hehehe
excuse my stuupid question..but then again i heard that there's no such thing as stupid question...only stupid answers.....
Thx

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/roh_kudus/Sig_small.gif
"He is St Peter"
"People with power can afford to show their ugly faces to ordinary people"-Empirically tested<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I've heard stupid questions before, like "other than the shooting mrs kennedy, how did you enjoy the parade?"

I think this may be more of a language thing though. A coolie hat is a 4 or 8 way positional switch, usually found on a joystick or throttle.

I haven't tried the little mouse emulator on the saitek for awhile. When I first got the stick, there was an issue with MS explorer mice and the saitek mouse emulator. I have a logitech mouse now though plus it's been about a year so I'm sure saitek fixed the issue. Right?

When people post about using utilities can they please post links?
I just flat out refuse to buy track Ir, I can get plenty immersed without it.


I would also like to make a case for padlock. Padlock IS realistic. Your eyes naturally track your target, and your head naturally turns to keep them trained. Until monitors have a dot pitch of 400 or so, we wont be able to recognize craft at the same distance as we normally would. limited (distance) labels and padlock go along way to alleviate this.

I've been using the little mini stick on the saitek for prop pitch and mix so I guess I'll have to map those now.

thanks everyone for polling

--------------------------------------------
Athlon 3200+ / 2x512 corsair c2pt 3200LL / radeon X800 Pro / Audigy 2 ZS / WinXP / Saitek X45
--------------------------------------------
p4c 3000 -800/ abit ic7/2x512 corsair twin x LL/ bfg 6800u /audigy platinum/ winxp ch fighter stick and usb throttle.

Red_Russian13
07-28-2004, 09:49 AM
I'd like to try TrackIR. No funds!

Red Russian

Aero_Shodanjo
07-28-2004, 10:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roh_Kudus:
Errr what is a hatswitch?
switches on the hat? hehehe
excuse my stuupid question..but then again i heard that there's no such thing as stupid question...only stupid answers.....
Thx<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

8 way switch located in the top of the joystick's handle. Useful for moving the viewpoint around (like turning your head).

Anyway, ure from Jakarta right? Bandung here. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v351/Aero_Shodanjo/Sig/a86d9f37.jpg

Yellonet
07-28-2004, 11:00 AM
I answered "coolie hat" but I use the keyboard just as much.


- Yellonet

Kasdeya
07-28-2004, 11:20 AM
I use both the hat switch on my Joystick and the mouse stick on my pro throttle. It works fairly well until I can get the TIR, someday...

http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Kasdeya/demonmoving.gif (http://www.361stvfg.com/)
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Skullin
07-28-2004, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'd like to try TrackIR. No funds!

Red Russian <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My choice isn't on the poll... FREELOOK
download it for free, use an LCD on the bill of your cap, and you have Track-IR for free. Pain in the **** to set up properly, but once you get it perfect, it's awesome !!

Vortex_uk
07-28-2004, 12:53 PM
1st option,exept i'm left handed with the stick so my mouse is in my right hand http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/Vortex_uk/UBISigVortex.jpg


"We are not retreating, we are advancing in another direction. " ~ Gen. MacArthur

purzel08
07-28-2004, 01:10 PM
I can‚¬īt look back with the hat as far as with the mouse. Is there a possibility to change this with other settings ? I have a MS FFB2-Stick.

greetings...

Inadaze
07-28-2004, 01:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skullin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'd like to try TrackIR. No funds!

Red Russian <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My choice isn't on the poll... FREELOOK
download it for free, use an LCD on the bill of your cap, and you have Track-IR for free. Pain in the **** to set up properly, but once you get it perfect, it's awesome !!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I use it with NewView, Newview helps it recentre and tweak how it pans alot better.

Its worth a try if you have a spare webcam kicking about. It definately works best with a LED or light source. I use a fishing headlamp with the reflector removed.

Cool Program - Freelook (http://freelook.org/)

S! Inadaze

Skullin
07-28-2004, 02:02 PM
yep, and everyone has a couple LED's on the front of their computer case... i have one of them extended with about 5 feet of wire out the front of my case http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'll have to look into the newview thing along with it, although i finally got it centering pretty good. Just have to keep messing with the sensitivity and other settings in the config file.

Inadaze
07-28-2004, 02:16 PM
Set up new view to use the mouse in the headset section. Then setup a newview button for centre without return to the same button that freelook uses for view reset. (It sounds more complicated than it is)

As it leaves the hat spare I use up and down for FOV increase and decrease and left and right to adjust the prop pitch.

S! Inadaze

Skullin
07-28-2004, 02:19 PM
you don't need newview to do that, that's how i have mine already. the same button centers freelook, and my view in the cockpit at the same time.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

Inadaze
07-28-2004, 02:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skullin:
you don't need newview to do that, that's how i have mine already. the same button centers freelook, and my view in the cockpit at the same time.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yup, its the same thing, just if you use newview, you have to set it up in there.

S!

Ak9779
07-28-2004, 02:34 PM
The little hat on my X45 worked like a charm until I got my TIR. I had my setup in such a way as I'd only have to even think about touching the keyboard for 3 things:
1. Engine start/stop
2. Squad commands
3. Bailing out (that key is now worn out)

Anyway, I found the hat to be very serviceable. Only very occasionally would I get waxed because of somebody hiding on one of my hat blind spots.

I used to hate the slow-panning view change, but I now realize that they're a lifesaver because often times you notice a bogey during the transition.

It's be nice to be able to switch the head-panning speed between "search mode" (slow panning) and "dogfight mode" (much faster panning) because I HAVE been killed a few times because a bogey switched sides and it took me 2 seconds to turn my head to see him again.

I know you can bejigger the head pan speed in the .ini (or somewhere) but AFAIK, there's no way to do it in game. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though. I'd love to know how. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

----------------
MACHINE GUN : JAMMED
FUEL TANK: LEAK
ENGINE: ON FIRE
PILOT: WOUNDED
...Yeah, it's gonna be one of those days...

Ak9779
07-28-2004, 02:38 PM
Oh, and once I tried putting the mouse on the floor and operating it with my feet. The results were not exactly satisfactory. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Later,
Ak

----------------
MACHINE GUN : JAMMED
FUEL TANK: LEAK
ENGINE: ON FIRE
PILOT: WOUNDED
...Yeah, it's gonna be one of those days...

_VR_ScorpionWorm
07-28-2004, 02:42 PM
Same as Tully, hat switch mapped as mouse view...cool programming feature for X45. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Scorpion08/Hurri-1.jpg

www.vultures-row.com (http://www.vultures-row.com)

JJaguar
07-28-2004, 02:57 PM
I use both a hat switch and mouse (actually a trackball in my case), depending on the circumstances.

I mapped the pan view to the mouse switch on my X-45 throttle and the mouse button mapped to center the view, though I use these as a regular hat switch/button instead of a mouse because I could never get the driver software installed properly. I've got another button on the stick to toggle this between pan and snap view, but in practice I never use snap. I mainly use the hat switch in combat.

I use my trackball to pan around when I'm in a non-combat situation, such as when scanning for enemies or for just sightseeing. I have finer control with the trackball, but I don't like taking my hand off the controls in combat.

I never use padlock view because I tend to lose track of where my target is relative to my orientation. With the pan view, I always know which direction I turned.

Vladimir_No2
07-28-2004, 03:18 PM
I use the mouse- I find the hatswich, even when running "mouse emulation" to be too slow and inaccurate to control my view with.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v255/vladimir_no2/polishsig.jpg
Der Spaziergang uber Warshau

Bluedog72
07-28-2004, 07:43 PM
I use the 8 way hat and a button for "look up", combination of the two covers pretty much anywhere you are ever going to want to look.

As for hatswitch panning speed being too slow, open your config.ini file and have a look for the [Hookview Config] section, scroll down a couple of lines to where it has 'speed', and change that to suit your liking.

I have it at Speed=10 and it works fine.
1= slow pan 10= fast pan speed.
Not sure if numbers higher than 10 work, I have never tried it.


*edit* Ummm....after rereading the question...

The above is actually all for snap views, I dont use any 'pan' view at all.

Bearcat99
07-28-2004, 08:49 PM
I have TIR.. when it goes south and before I got it I used the mouse pan button on my X45. It is nice to have all my controls at my fingertips. TIR is nice but sometimes it glitches up unexpectedly so never removed the mouse pan function from my X45.

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IMMERSION BABY!!

VMF-214_HaVoK
07-28-2004, 09:01 PM
I use the hat along with FB View Plus. Works well for me. Someday when I got some spare cash Ill give Track IR a try.

=S=

http://www.flightjournal.com/fj/images/hellcat_head_short.jpg

www.vmf-214.net (http://www.vmf-214.net)
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Rab03
07-30-2004, 01:11 AM
Coolie with NewView http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif. Default coolie controls being crude-NewView is a must.

Hope Oleg&team would include it in PF and BoB.

dieg777
07-30-2004, 01:43 AM
Also use newview http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif almost given up on origonal IL2 as I cant go back to flying without it--even tho Im desperate to finish my campaign http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

GUNNER
Gunner get a decent signature
Gunner learn to fly
Gunner learn to shoot
Gunner not run out of bullets just as I get on his six

Bluntage
07-30-2004, 11:25 AM
I was using the x45 mouse function mapped to the 8 way coolie hat on my stick and loved it! However, I recently (May) received Track IR 3 Pro as a gift and have been frustrated at my inability to get used to the damned thing - so much so that I have all but quit flying as of late. I am very near selling it and going back to the mouse emulation.

I should have asked them to get me the CH Pro Pedals instead!

Mental-Patient
07-30-2004, 02:35 PM
I had trackir just couldnt get used to it now use hat switch and keys
"But i cant get this patch off
my
head AAARRRGGGGHHH!!!"
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/keyriced/WITH%20PATCH.JPG
"i can move things with
my brain MUH HAHA MUH HAHA!!

CrazySchmidt
07-30-2004, 04:20 PM
I seriously want to try TrackIR, but as far priorities go with my budget, this is damn near at the bottom. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Cheers,
CrazySChmidt. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Have been here from the beginning, will be here till the end."

Fliegeroffizier
07-30-2004, 04:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mental-Patient:
I had trackir just couldnt get used to it now use hat switch and keys
"But i cant get this patch off
my
head AAARRRGGGGHHH!!!"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like your avatar...Great guncam clip!!!



As for the Poll, I use Newview with Coolie...does the job for me...

Mental-Patient
07-30-2004, 05:37 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CrazySchmidt:
I seriously want to try TrackIR, but as far priorities go with my budget, this is damn near at the bottom. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Cheers,
CrazySChmidt. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If your on a budget as most people are id say keep it for an important upgrade like a graphics card or memory upgrade,i had trackir and like you i really wanted to try it out, it wont make an average pilot an ace,and plenty of il2 aces dont have it,if you have a fat wallet or are a very competitive pilot in things like squad v sqaud battles or vef and vwf looking for that extra edge go ahead and get it ,it makes an interesting addition to sim flying,i found it ok but not great and difficult to use in a dogfight no matter what profile i used.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/keyriced/woops%20jpg.JPG