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View Full Version : Oleg why fw190As overheat so quickly in AEP?



HQ1
03-04-2004, 05:19 PM
OLeg i found FW190As in AEP are overheat very easyly.did you make any change on this in AEP?

HQ1
03-04-2004, 05:19 PM
OLeg i found FW190As in AEP are overheat very easyly.did you make any change on this in AEP?

Hunde_3.JG51
03-04-2004, 06:04 PM
The 190 certainly seems to overheat quicker, especially compared to planes like the Spitfire, P-63, etc.

Also, Oleg could you please look at if the 190's gunsight is getting knocked out too frequently/easily. I LOVE the new complex DM (can't thank you enough for this), but the gunsight seems to get knocked out ALOT.

Thanks again for everything, truly amazing work.

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Formerly Kyrule2
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Oleg_Maddox
03-05-2004, 03:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HQ1:
OLeg i found FW190As in AEP are overheat very easyly.did you make any change on this in AEP?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We have no changes in modeling of engines for FW-190s. It is the same as in 1.22

CHDT
03-05-2004, 03:32 AM
In real life, the 190A, and especially the early variants, overheated fast, even Tank acknowledged that in his scribings. It was only really solved with the A-5.

Cheers,

WWMaxGunz
03-05-2004, 04:53 AM
If the overheating is happening while in a dogfight where the enemy is forcing you to turn or climb a lot then that will reduce your speed and so the amount of air flowing over your air-cooled engine. The engine itself will also be torqued more which also raises internal heat. You only have to average a certain amount slower at high power to get all of that.

In the meantime, the Spitfires are very good at turns and pitching up maneuvers. Very easy to fly and very easy to bring onto targets. And that's just the plain Vb! Don't turn with them at all! Fly straight through with only slight change in angles and then only if you have a shot. Keep it short and get out fast. Don't turn till you are well clear. With a team, one group can hit while the other extends. If any Spits try and follow then they become targets in turn, they have to run somewhat straight to get chase speed or make shots. Still, beware of setups! Didn't the Abbeville Boys pick their engagements?


Neal

Hunde_3.JG51
03-05-2004, 06:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HQ1:
OLeg i found FW190As in AEP are overheat very easyly.did you make any change on this in AEP?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We have no changes in modeling of engines for FW-190s. It is the same as in 1.22<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


It was also said that the A-9 was never touched and it certainly seems better in AEP http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. I'm sorry but the 190's certainly seem to overheat much quicker, I'll test some stuff another time. Still, just flying planes back to back will make it obvious that there are HUGE differences in overheat times. Oh well, whatever will be will be. It seems Oleg is just getting annoyed so I'll just forget about it.

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Formerly Kyrule2
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Oleg_Maddox
03-05-2004, 06:54 AM
First of all I wasn't lazy and I checked myself.

1. They overheats as it was in 1.22.
2. With open cowls ("Radiator") on maximal power it is not overheats even 25 min of flight. More time had not time to check http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
3. In CEM all works as it was in 1.22. Just Auto/Closed - works as it is only Closed. Why? See item 4.
4. Not using CEM: Position auto/closed nopw works only as closed. Because historically corect is that FW-190A/F/G had not automatic control of cowls ("radiator") but had only manual. I asked my programmer to make it very long time ago, but it was done just now.

I hope the "problem" solved?

Skalgrim
03-05-2004, 07:06 AM
a8 and a9 climb same 5000m, that has not change

[This message was edited by Skalgrim on Fri March 05 2004 at 06:17 AM.]

ElfunkoI
03-05-2004, 07:16 AM
LOL, Oleg, you gotta document these curve balls you throw at us! I was gonna call BS on your time to overheat till you explained Close/Auto means closed. I suppose this works this way for the Ta-152 also, because that aircraft seems to overheat exceptionally easy like the Fw-190 A's and D's.

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"

Oleg_Maddox
03-05-2004, 07:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skalgrim:
a8 and a9 climb same 5000m, that has not change
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry I don't trust your measurement. I have other. And differences in almost 4 m/s at sea level, where A-9 has really great advatage in climb over A-8.
I checked it alreaady yesterday and posted already answer.
Next time when you post that it is wrong before to post record the track that show us that it is wrong and sent to beta address. We will check all your settings, and evaluate what you get. Then we will post the asnwer.
At the moment your comments are not confirmed.

p1ngu666
03-05-2004, 07:43 AM
spits rad doesnt close completely like the 190s remmber
its more like 2 to 4/6

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Willey
03-05-2004, 07:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
3. In CEM all works as it was in 1.22. Just Auto/Closed - works as it is only Closed. Why? See item 4.
4. Not using CEM: Position auto/closed nopw works only as closed. Because historically corect is that FW-190A/F/G had not automatic control of cowls ("radiator") but had only manual. I asked my programmer to make it very long time ago, but it was done just now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There we are. Exactly. I don't have AEP yet, but it already overheated quickly with closed rads in 1.22. Most ppl don't touch the R key in FWs. You can't see the setting visually, like in a 109. So most think they are closed initially, but in 1.22 they were on Auto, which opened them as the oil temp raised. Thus it put the overheat back.

So open the radiators/cowl flaps. They just take some 20-30km/h and a tad of climb, but you can use full power for more than 3 times the time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I really like this since 1.21 and hardly having overheat problems (short time, engine killed) now. That for a tad of performance. Of course, if I need every km/h, I close them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. But usually I fly with open radiators most of the time.

JG26Red
03-05-2004, 09:43 AM
being a dedicated A9 flyer.. i can tell ya, it climbs alot faster! lol, i havent really tested the overheat yet.. i normally in combat with open rad and run at 100per... i could run like this forever.. will try again soon, but on side note.. the TA overheats like a mofo

ZG77_Lignite
03-05-2004, 10:11 AM
Very glad to hear that the 190a's now have no 'auto' radiator setting, it was one of the very few things left incorrect on the FW190.

Thanks to Oleg for all these improvements.

Kwiatos
03-05-2004, 10:27 AM
Nice to know that radiator auto doesnt work in Fw190 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. How about Fw190 D-9 and Ta-152?

Maj_Death
03-05-2004, 12:03 PM
After reading some of these posts I decided to check the Fw-190A4 for myself. Overheat has not changed. With auto prop pitch you can fly at 102% power with "radiator" fully closed indefinatly. At 110% power it overheats within 5 minutes but that is no different from 1.22. I did notice one change though. In 1.22 the Fw-190A4's engine would go up to 3000RPM at 100% pitch, now it goes to 2600RPM's. End result is now I don't have to bump it to 80% pitch in order to get good performance without frying the engine.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The F7F Tigercat in Aces Over the Pacific is overmodeled.

faustnik
03-05-2004, 12:17 PM
Oh, no wonder I was overheating. The "Auto Radiator: settings was false advertising. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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Oleg_Maddox
03-05-2004, 12:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kwiatos:
Nice to know that radiator auto doesnt work in Fw190 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. How about Fw190 D-9 and Ta-152?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I checked D9 and Ta-152. I will ask to tune auto setting for both of them. One of them is too long time not overheated and another one too fast.

I will not tell you which one at the moment.
Will point it in readme for add-on with new aircraft. There will be all fixes that will be reall found and confirmed for this and next week.

ZG77_Lignite
03-05-2004, 12:37 PM
Probably just a memory slip their MajDeath, the FW190a4 (1.22 and before) runs about 2650RPM (2600-2700) in 'manual' mode, and 2450 or so in 'auto' mode (A5-A9 is higher). Sound like no change to version 2.0

Maj_Death
03-05-2004, 12:48 PM
Maybe so, I don't fly the A4 all that often but I was fairly certain it was inline with the rest of the Fw-190A's.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The F7F Tigercat in Aces Over the Pacific is overmodeled.

Hunde_3.JG51
03-05-2004, 02:00 PM
So the elimination of "auto" setting was the cause, I feel shame and embarrasment http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

Was this documented anywhere?

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Formerly Kyrule2
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JG26Red
03-05-2004, 03:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
So the elimination of "auto" setting was the cause, I feel shame and embarrasment http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

Was this documented anywhere?

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

Formerly Kyrule2
http://www.jg51.com/&lt;HR&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; (http://www.jg51.com/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>)

i doubt it... lol

Saburo_0
03-05-2004, 03:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
So the elimination of "auto" setting was the cause, I feel shame and embarrasment http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well both those beat the heck out of the overheating being porked!!
BTW that auto /closed msg always did drive me crazy any way.

Hunde_3.JG51
03-05-2004, 06:37 PM
Saburo, auto message/setting is still there which is why I had no idea it actually meant closed now. Basically we have two "closed" settings now. Unless my game is messed up.

And I definitely agree, better I feel like a jerk and look like an idiot than there be real overheating problems. Still, I don't think I had any way of knowing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

Formerly Kyrule2
http://www.jg51.com/

03-05-2004, 08:28 PM
I guess that explains why I was so baffled when people kept saying the 190s overheat too fast.. I never use auto-rad settings with any plane except the P-51s..

Zen--
03-05-2004, 09:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
So the elimination of "auto" setting was the cause, I feel shame and embarrasment http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

Was this documented anywhere?

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

Formerly Kyrule2
http://www.jg51.com/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


According to the code of Bushido, you know what to do Hunde


http://209.163.146.67/zen/bk113-313a.jpg


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Zen-

Hunde_3.JG51
03-05-2004, 11:44 PM
LOL Zen.

Thanks to FW-190fan and those missing panzerblitz rockets I still have a week and a half to go in the TB-3! I'll keep the wakizashi close at hand in case it becomes unbearable http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

Formerly Kyrule2
http://www.jg51.com/

HQ1
03-06-2004, 04:18 AM
oh, auto setting has changed cause the overheat problem.but why readme file doesnot mention it?

Saburo_0
03-06-2004, 07:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
LOL Zen.

Thanks to FW-190fan and those missing panzerblitz rockets I still have a week and a half to go in the TB-3! I'll keep the wakizashi close at hand in case it becomes unbearable http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Well I'd be honoured to lop your head off,
if it reaches that. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

But, yeah that should have been documented. BTW is the on cd manual updated with the new planes? Also please post changes you notice with 190s (esp Antons) after you've had some time to fly.
I have to wait til Monday for my copy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

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Formerly Kyrule2
http://www.jg51.com/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Franzen
03-06-2004, 11:03 AM
Hunde, sterilize the blade first, you don't want to catch an infection. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Fritz

ucanfly
03-06-2004, 11:06 AM
Aaaaah. Oleg , how are we supposed to know that CLose/Auto = CLosed unless it is in a readme or explained in these boards?

This (CLOSED/AUto) is an erroneous indication (bug) and should be deleted for those planes that don't have it IMO, unless the FW pilots had two positions for "closed" IRL.

BTW Aces is a nice addon - thanks for your hard work. It is very appreciated and am enjoying it.

ACE.HOLE
03-06-2004, 04:19 PM
I hope you make the 190 fly as it did in il2 sturmovik, it would still beat a p47. It seems you can never win with the people in these forums always complaining about thier favorite ride.

If I was you I would bring back the il2 sturmovik 190 flight characteristics which flew like a heavy radial engined fighter and shove it in thier whining faces. They are really blessed with the 190 characteristics in il2 FB and do not have to wory about the aircraft going into a nose over tumble.

Thx for a great game oleg

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FW190fan
03-06-2004, 04:40 PM
Thanks for your contribution A-hole. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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WWMaxGunz
03-06-2004, 09:34 PM
In IL2 Sturmovik people complained about their FW's not being able to turn properly and things were changed. More changes have been made to the FW's and for the FW's in response to fanboy whining than any other I can remember. And from FW fanboys it's always, always been to make the FW's better while make any serious opponents worse. Of course in a fanboy world their favorite plane is always so much better than all others. It doesn't matter which major plane, all have the fanboys who will never be happy until the sim is tilted their way.

Fanboys should play sims that allow user mods. They can live in their own worlds precisely tailored to their conceptions. And if they are ever beaten by superior flying or tactics then they can either choke the enemy plane down or boost theirs "in relation".

CFS is perhaps the best fanboy sim, yah? Go play, fanboys! My plane beats your plane means I know charts and tables, not about pilots and combat much. Fanboys.


Neal

Hunde_3.JG51
03-06-2004, 11:22 PM
Hey A-hole (or is it D-Head?) and MaxGunz, how about shutting the #&*% up. First off, the 190 in IL-2 was a joke of a plane that couldn't even approach its realistic performance, it climbed like a greyhound bus. Second, why is it that most planes in FB meet, but usually exceed, their indicated numbers in roll, turn, & climb whereas the 190 has always been under or close to accurate in climb and only overmodelled in high speed roll (which has been fixed)? It is out-turned by almost every plane in the game (which is accurate) and I have never seen anyone complain about it. And yes, if you read carefully there were alot of 190 fans who wanted the roll-rate to be made more accurate. And there were ALOT of 190 drivers asking for a more accurate complex damage model to replace the simplified one, for better or worse (I remembere being called a luftwhiner for this, with people swearing that the 190 already had a complex DM). And most 190 drivers admitted when FB was first released that the 190 was too tough. I myself was one of the first people way back when to point out that the 190 was immune to small caliber mg's. Perhaps your problem is selective reading and being ignorant of the facts. The 190 had a simplified DM since IL-2 was released and we just got an accurate DM now (how many years later?), but I guess we were whining. The 190 was overheating because we were never told that the "auto" setting was disabled (which is accurate) and we wondered what the hell was going on, but I guess that is our fault too? Planes like the A-4 overheat in a few minutes whereas planes like the La-5 never overheat (or after a very long time) with boost on and radiator closed, but I guess we shouldn't say anything. A plane like the Spitfire V (F. '41) outclimbs the A-4 but again I guess we should just let that go too. Yes, we have had to complain alot to get the 190 to even be competitive, but when you look at the history of IL-2 and FB you will find the Focke Wulf near the bottom of the list when it comes to things that are/were overmodelled, and at or near the top of the list for things that were wrong/undermodelled. And many 190 fans, including myself, often post in other threads supporting changes to opposing planes. I supported having the P-47's roll increases (which unfortunately remains the same), increasing P-51's high altitude model when it was beta, having the .50 cals dispersion decreased for more damage effect, having the P-40 be able to reach its indicated speeds, and plenty more.

This thread was about a problem that we were all noticing because of a change in the game we were not informed of, sorry if you are too ignorant to realize this.

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Formerly Kyrule2
http://www.jg51.com/

[This message was edited by Hunde_3.JG51 on Sun March 07 2004 at 04:28 AM.]

FW190fan
03-07-2004, 06:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
only overmodelled in high speed roll (which has been fixed)? It is out-turned by almost every plane in the game (which is accurate) and I have never seen anyone complain about it. And yes, if you read carefully there were alot of 190 fans who wanted the roll-rate to be made more accurate. And there were ALOT of 190 drivers asking for a more accurate complex damage model to replace the simplified one, for better or worse (I remembere being called a luftwhiner for this, with people swearing that the 190 already had a complex DM). And most 190 drivers admitted when FB was first released that the 190 was too tough. I myself was one of the first people way back when to point out that the 190 was immune to small caliber mg's. Perhaps your problem is selective reading and being ignorant of the facts. The 190 had a simplified DM since IL-2 was released and we just got an accurate DM now (how many years later?), but I guess we were whining. The 190 was overheating because we were never told that the "auto" setting was disabled (which is accurate) and we wondered what the hell was going on, but I guess that is our fault too? Planes like the A-4 overheat in a few minutes whereas planes like the La-5 never overheat (or after a very long time) with boost on and radiator closed, but I guess we shouldn't say anything. A plane like the Spitfire V (F. '41) outclimbs the A-4 but again I guess we should just let that go too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Indeed.

The roll rate at high speeds was reported early and it was reported often. And I remember you (Kyrule) being called a "luftwhiner" for asking for a complex DM for the FW190 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

And guess what we have now: (1) Corrected roll rate, and (2) The FW190 now has a complex damage model.

Funny how that works isn't it?

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

FW190fan
03-07-2004, 06:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:

And from FW fanboys it's always, always been to make the FW's better while make any serious opponents worse.

Neal<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Pure and utter BS. Congratulations on the dumbest post I can remember you ever making.

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

Zen--
03-07-2004, 07:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
In IL2 Sturmovik people complained about their FW's not being able to turn properly and things were changed. More changes have been made to the FW's and for the FW's in response to fanboy whining than any other I can remember. And from FW fanboys it's always, always been to make the FW's better while make any serious opponents worse. Of course in a fanboy world their favorite plane is always so much better than all others. It doesn't matter which major plane, all have the fanboys who will never be happy until the sim is tilted their way.

Fanboys should play sims that allow user mods. They can live in their own worlds precisely tailored to their conceptions. And if they are ever beaten by superior flying or tactics then they can either choke the enemy plane down or boost theirs "in relation".

CFS is perhaps the best fanboy sim, yah? Go play, fanboys! My plane beats your plane means I know charts and tables, not about pilots and combat much. Fanboys.


Neal<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is the sim somehow made better from comments like these? Thinking before you speak would serve you better.

-Zen-