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Obi_Kwiet
02-23-2004, 09:54 AM
I remember something about there being news of a P-61 in the exp. pack, however I have seen no screenies, or anyone talking about this for awhile. Any final word on this?

Obi_Kwiet
02-23-2004, 09:54 AM
I remember something about there being news of a P-61 in the exp. pack, however I have seen no screenies, or anyone talking about this for awhile. Any final word on this?

02-23-2004, 10:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
I remember something about there being news of a P-61 in the exp. pack, however I have seen no screenies, or anyone talking about this for awhile. Any final word on this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

u mean p-63?

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/cobra.jpg

Luftcaca
02-23-2004, 10:40 AM
I never heard anything about the Black Widow for Forgotten Battles, although I'd like to flight it!!!

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

p1ngu666
02-23-2004, 10:55 AM
partly made and given up i think

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

Obi_Kwiet
02-23-2004, 10:59 AM
I menat P-61. Dang I heard that it even had a working radar display. Oh well, I guess we'll just have ot wait and see.

Agamemnon22
02-23-2004, 12:27 PM
It has not been forgotten, however the developer, let's call him L., is a black box. One day the P-61 will emerge from that box. Until then we know nothing.

02-23-2004, 02:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
It has not been forgotten, however the developer, let's call him L., is a black box. One day the P-61 will emerge from that box. Until then we know nothing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/cobra.jpg

SkyChimp
02-23-2004, 06:42 PM
If I'm not mistaken, I think Luthier himself is doing the P-61. Maybe for the suspected Pacific sim?

Regards,
SkyChimp
http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/skychimp.jpg

ElAurens
02-23-2004, 09:33 PM
We can only hope....

_____________________________

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BlitzPig_EL

XyZspineZyX
02-24-2004, 10:05 AM
What all the P-61 "fans" are really thinking:

"Oh boy! Now I can get a plane with big guns in a turret, which saves me from actually having to maneuver the plane into a postition to used fixed guns. And, the infallible AI will do the gunnery for me, while I soak up all the points.

I'll be l337 oober."

This plane would be the most despised "ackstar" of all time, flown by the skill-less AI-griefer types (typically never at night, which is when the Widow was actually used).

Boandlgramer
02-24-2004, 10:51 AM
why so harsh stiglr ?
i am happy, with every aircraft we get http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Boandlgramer
http://images.google.de/images?q=tbn:10LP6FCHtuYJ:www.vhts.de/bilder/wappenbayern.jpg
http://images.google.de/images?q=tbn:negrFY2J26MJ:www.thienemann.de/img/rauber_5.jpg
Wachtmeister Dimpfelmoser in Verfolgung von R√¬§uber Hotzenplotz, der auf sch√¬§ndliche Weise Oma‚¬īs Kaffeem√ľhle in seinen Besitz brachte.
Gut, dass es Wachtmeister gibt , unbestechlich und tapfer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

ElAurens
02-24-2004, 10:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
What all the P-61 "fans" are really thinking:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stiglr, Most P61s flew without the top turret, which contained 4 .50 Brownings. The aircraft has 4 fixed 20mm cannons firing forward.

And mostly what those of us who want the P61 are thinking about is how foolish your post is...

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

_____________________________

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BlitzPig_EL

02-24-2004, 11:16 AM
It's OK.

The Boulton Paul Defiant will kick the P-61's butt. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

XyZspineZyX
02-24-2004, 11:40 AM
Cut from the same cloth.

PlaneEater
02-24-2004, 12:01 PM
You dare insult my Lady Widow? I will see you on the field of honor!

...at 15,000 feet!

...at 2 am!

&gt;|)

GT182
02-24-2004, 12:17 PM
P-61 would be nice.

The only one I've seen and it's being rebuilt, will have the top turret. To see pictures and the story of it go here: Widows Web, It's...the P-61 Black Widow! (http://www.maam.org/p61.html) When you get to the site, clicl on "The Widow's Web".

"GT182" / "vonSpinmeister"
www.bombs-away.net (http://www.bombs-away.net)
"Fly to Survive, Survive to Fly"

XyZspineZyX
02-24-2004, 12:31 PM
Plane Honor wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I will see you...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Likely NOT. That's exactly why the Widow flew at NIGHT. So it didn't have to fight in high visibility.

ElAurens
02-24-2004, 05:52 PM
P 61s flew during the daylight hours in the Pacific and were quite effective agianst Zeros....

_____________________________

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BlitzPig_EL

necrobaron
02-24-2004, 06:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
Plane Honor wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I will see you...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Likely NOT. That's exactly why the Widow flew at NIGHT. So it didn't have to fight in high visibility.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh,it's pretty dark at 2am. Anywho, the P-61 will be great to fly. Plus,it just looks cool. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

Popey109
02-24-2004, 06:58 PM
the only aircraft I'd like to fly more is He-219. but unless Oleg can blind the AI for night ops there's not much need for it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I want to sneak up on em http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

PlaneEater
02-24-2004, 08:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Likely NOT. That's exactly why the Widow flew at NIGHT. So it didn't have to fight in high visibility.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Someone obviously feels like they need to pick apart figures of speech in order to seem confident. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sokay, Stiglr, I'll say 'check six!' as I pull the trigger. Not sure whether the Hispanos will wait for ya, though.

Lasst das Hollentor offen,
Es FRIERT HIER OBEN!

Copperhead310th
02-24-2004, 08:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
What all the P-61 "fans" are really thinking:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stiglr, Most P61s flew without the top turret, which contained 4 .50 Brownings. The aircraft has 4 fixed 20mm cannons firing forward.

And mostly what those of us who want the P61 are thinking about is how foolish your post is...

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

__BlitzPig_EL__<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not Compleatly true El. the majority of the p-61 top turrets we're in the Locked postion. rather than have them removed. I posted a really BIG post here on the p-61 a while back but cna't find it now but the information is all in there. pretty much anything you need to know about the P-61 black widow.

Also....Luthier is NOT modleing the P-61. But i know who is http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif How? Because i did a bunch of resaerch for the modeler. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Also, stigler.....you suck. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

http://imageshack.us/files/copper%20sig%20with%20rank.jpg
310th FS & 380th BG website (http://www.members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron)

WUAF_Badsight
02-24-2004, 10:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
What all the P-61 "fans" are really thinking:

"Oh boy! Now I can get a plane with big guns in a turret, which saves me from actually having to maneuver the plane into a postition to used fixed guns. And, the infallible AI will do the gunnery for me, while I soak up all the points.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK thats another dumb Stigler post

THATS WHAT PEOPLE DO WITH BOMBERS RIGHT NOW YOU FRICKEN TOOL

so you are a German Fanboy ..... that much is easy to tell about you

why dont you QUIT attacking planes that you dont want to see in FB


YOUR OPINION ABOUT WHAT SHOULDNT COME TO FB DOESNT COUNT

any American plane request gets a big diss from our Luftwaffe wannabe dummie ...

easy to see what makes Stigler feel threatened isnt it

ElAurens
02-25-2004, 04:47 AM
Thanks for the claification Copperhead. I know that the turret cause serious stability problems when traversed and one of the fixes was it's removal. Were they locked facing forward?

_____________________________

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BlitzPig_EL

MandMs
02-25-2004, 04:50 AM
The other reason was this was the top turret on the B-29. B-29 needed them more, iirc.

They were locked forward ElAurens.


I eat the red ones last.

necrobaron
02-25-2004, 09:53 AM
I always thought the turret was included on earlier models but was removed because of buffeting. In later models,once the buffeting problems were resolved,the turret was reinstated. Is this correct?

"Not all who wander are lost."

Agamemnon22
02-25-2004, 09:55 AM
Necrobaron: that's what I've read too, but I'm by no means an expert.

Aaron_GT
02-25-2004, 10:19 AM
"Not Compleatly true El. the majority of the p-61 top turrets we're in the Locked postion."

Almost all the A models had the top turrets
removed. They were problematic (buffeting),
and those shipped with them typically had
them removed in the field, so in the end
they didn't ship them with turrets and just
used them to make up the shortfall in
production for the B29.

By the B model the buffeting was fixed, but
they were still mostly locked forwards and
aimed by the pilot.

XyZspineZyX
02-25-2004, 10:33 AM
Badsight, when you learn to write at a level above about 4th grade, you come back and we'll debate a subject, ok? Until then, continue to sit at the "kids table".

If you read my posts going back, you'll see I'm also against seeing German oddities like the Do-335 Pfeil, the experimental '46 oddities, etc. It's about all the *unrepresentative* planes with me, not with any particular nationality. The nationality thing comes from the fact that most people who are wanting to shoehorn in their favorite "kewl planes" are Ami fans.

Will be interesting to see if a Widow does get lobbied into the system, whether it will have any stability problems caused by dweebing around with that turret. Even more interesting to see if all its fans will use it at night, which is when it was used. My cynical prediction is that it will be used like an "upgunned ueber P-38 with a flexgun", zipping through furballs with abandon, leaving the AI to score critical hits with the turret, and the "pilots" thinking they're all that, when they don't even have the skill to line up anything with their 20mms.

Of course, adding this plane to a Pacific theatre before you have Corsairs, Hellcats, Dauntlesses, Avengers, Liberators, Mitchells, and all manner of representative Japanese counterparts... well that gets back to my original harangue about the P-61: WHY???

Baltar
02-25-2004, 11:21 AM
It'd be great if both the A and B versions were included with loadout options including 'with turret', 'without turret', and 'fixed turret' options, and have the buffeting problems created by the turret movement modeled somehow.

Would it be feasible to add some way of using the radar operator's station? I guess maybe using the game's map 'mechanics' to have a radar screen and blips? If this could be done the Ju-88 night fighter would also be a great addition!

Zen--
02-25-2004, 12:56 PM
I heard a ways back that the Widow was as agile as most fighters of it's day, faster and had a better climb rate than most. Basically that it performed much better than most contemporary planes despite it being what appears to be a twin engine light bomber.

Is there any truth to this? The Widow seems to be one of the most underrated planes I've ever heard of, but some say it was a simply fantastic aircraft.


Comments appreciated


~S~

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

Baltar
02-25-2004, 01:16 PM
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p61.html seems to suggest it wasn't especially good in the night fighting role. One of the articles in there mentions pilots not being impressed with the maneuverability, and in general just not up to scratch in the night fighting role. The British also tried it out and weren't impressed, though they did the same with the P-38 & B-17, planes we (Americans) regard as classics. Dunno how much you can read into that. Aircraft of World War II by Chris Chant (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1840133368/qid=1077739999//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl14/102-5181675-9764934?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) suggests the firepower and agility were respected while the speed and climb rate were not.

MandMs
02-25-2004, 01:21 PM
http://www.battlezonebooks.com/P7252AS.jpg

Worth reading



I eat the red ones last.

chris455
02-25-2004, 01:26 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ElAurens:
P 61s flew during the daylight hours in the Pacific and were quite effective agianst Zeros....

_____________________________

El Aurens,
Not doubting you, but can you source that for me?
I know the Widow was a killer A/C, but against a Zeke in daylight would be a tremendous feat.
Share with us what you know-
S!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

MandMs
02-25-2004, 02:12 PM
Buy the book.

Listed fighter kills are are: 5 Zekes, 4 Tonys, 2 Frank, 1 Tojo.



I eat the red ones last.

Cardinal25
02-26-2004, 02:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zen--:
I heard a ways back that the Widow was as agile as most fighters of it's day, faster and had a better climb rate than most. Basically that it performed much better than most contemporary planes despite it being what appears to be a twin engine light bomber.

Is there any truth to this? The Widow seems to be one of the most underrated planes I've ever heard of, but some say it was a simply fantastic aircraft.


Comments appreciated


~S~

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Everything I have seen is that P-61's were very agile but poor/average climbers.

If it were up to stiglr we'd have nothing but 109's and IL-2's in game.

-----------------------------
CWoS. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php)

92nd Fighter Group (http://www.92ndfg.com)

7./JG77 (http://www.7jg77.com)

Bull_dog_
02-26-2004, 06:52 PM
The P-61 had poor rate of roll, poor climbing and wasn't real fast....It could out turn most single engined (US) fighters...I'm thinking all but the Wildcat and P-63 and it could dive due to its immense weight...makes a P-47 look like twig.

Yes it had firepower to spare... I truly don't understand why some Luftwaffe fans dispare when they have planes like the 109K that can outclimb the spaceshuttle and those dratted 30mm uber cannons that blow a plane in half with a single pass... That doesn't even include the fastest plane in the game DDDDDora...it is hard for me to respect the opinion of a person who finds Mk 108's acceptable but are worried about 4 20mm's and 4 .50's firing in unison and racking up points???

Can't wait for the widow

noshens
02-26-2004, 07:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>it could dive due to its immense weight...makes a P-47 look like twig.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember Newton proved that weight doesn't affect speed of fall.

http://physics.about.com/cs/mechanicsexp/a/241003.htm

Bull_dog_
02-26-2004, 09:19 PM
Weight (mass) does not matter in a vacuum....in thick air it does.

Now you went and did it...your gonna get me started on FB energy modelling...it is one aspect I really don't care for.

Weight combined with drag do impact the dive accelaration and top speed at a given dive angle due to the drag induced friction. The Black Widow had weight and a reasonably low drag design so if you point it earthwards it picks up speed really fast.

A spitfire on the otherhand, will acclerate much more slowly and have a slower top speed at the same dive angle...fly the jug on line and you'll realize that this advantage doesn't exist to the same degree it did in real life....from high altitude the jug's top end speed is higher than most before coming apart and is a little faster but not substantially.

No single engined fighter could escape a Jug or even a Mustang in a dive...I suspect that a Black Widow would enjoy the same advantage...although it didn't have that reputation most likely due to the fact that dive characteristics weren't real important for nightfighters.

Aaron_GT
02-27-2004, 05:54 AM
"I heard a ways back that the Widow was as agile as most fighters of it's day, faster and had a better climb rate than most. Basically that it performed much better than most contemporary planes despite it being what appears to be a twin engine light bomber. "

A and B versions are pretty comparable to
the NF Mosquito, on the whole, or the He219.

The C version addressed issues with
respect to maximum speed, altitude performance,
and climb. The C version only clipped the
end of WW2, though. Later a recon version
was developed from it.

What the P61 did have over the Mosquito
was a much superior turn, and a greater
lift capacity, probably making it a better
night intruder when ordnance quantity was
a factor.

Aztek_Eagle
02-27-2004, 08:07 AM
The only reson why the Blackwidow flew at night was because it is pilots where to shy to to be seen flying that ugly plane at day light

MandMs
02-27-2004, 08:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aztek_Eagle:
The only reson why the Blackwidow flew at night was because it is pilots where to shy to to be seen flying that ugly plane at day light<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure you did not mean He219?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



I eat the red ones last.

Aaron_GT
02-27-2004, 08:28 AM
"No single engined fighter could escape a Jug or even a Mustang in a dive.."

Not entirely true. The Tempest apparently
had better dive characteristics according to
the RAF at least. A while back Neil Stirling
posted an RAF chart of this. However you
can judge dive performance on a number
of criteria.

Dive performance
depends a lot on what point of the dive
you are talking about, and at what speed
it was entered. If the dive is entered at
low speed then the plane with the best
power loading (i.e. not the P47 or P51)
will pull away initially. This would
mean that probably the F8F would be
the best initial diver from cruise speed
due to its amazing power to weight ratio.
If the dive is sufficiently long then the
plane with the best aerodynamics will win,
which is where the P47, P51, and Tempest
score well.

Copperhead310th
02-28-2004, 02:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
Thanks for the claification Copperhead. I know that the turret cause _serious_ stability problems when traversed and one of the fixes was it's removal. Were they locked facing forward?

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

__BlitzPig_EL__<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes El typically they were locked in the forward position. & then the ship was maned only by 2 ppl. the Pilot & the RIO. they'd go our on "SQUINT" hops in the daytime to calibtate & while they were out the'd fly minor intradiction mission. but mostly serach & rescue stuff. Fact: the onlt B-29 to be brought down by freindly fire was by a P-61 Blackwidow, & in daylight. (1/2 the 29's pit was blown away & the pilot gone. oh well orders are odrers so they splashed it after the crew bailed)
As for the stability problems that was early on problems. they had that all worked out by the C model like i said El i had a posted a pretty lennghty post here in the lst 3 months on the p-61 if you can find it. Planeater is also in that thread. I can't find it but if you can dig it up i'ts a good read. too many sorces to list as a lot of that info came from differant sites.

http://imageshack.us/files/copper%20sig%20with%20rank.jpg
310th FS & 380th BG website (http://www.members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron)

MandMs
02-28-2004, 05:45 AM
The P-61C was too late for WW2.

What should be modelled, instead of the P-61, is the A-26 Invader which had 10 Groups operating the a/c. (47th BG 12th AF; 386th BG, 391st BG, 397th BG, 409th BG, 410th BG, 416th BG, 69th RG 9th AF;, 3rd BG, 319th BG Pacific)



I eat the red ones last.

VW-IceFire
02-28-2004, 07:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
"No single engined fighter could escape a Jug or even a Mustang in a dive.."

Not entirely true. The Tempest apparently
had better dive characteristics according to
the RAF at least. A while back Neil Stirling
posted an RAF chart of this. However you
can judge dive performance on a number
of criteria.

Dive performance
depends a lot on what point of the dive
you are talking about, and at what speed
it was entered. If the dive is entered at
low speed then the plane with the best
power loading (i.e. not the P47 or P51)
will pull away initially. This would
mean that probably the F8F would be
the best initial diver from cruise speed
due to its amazing power to weight ratio.
If the dive is sufficiently long then the
plane with the best aerodynamics will win,
which is where the P47, P51, and Tempest
score well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tempest had two things going for it. The aerodynamics of a laminar flow wing like the P-51 and more weight than the P-51...not as heavy as the P-47 but close. Apparently it accelerated well in a dive...it could catch FW190's in dives so it was very good. It ranks up there anyways....

I often find that the Tempest is rarely compaired to other non RAF aircraft except for the FW190's since that was its chief competitor. Some even consider it a V-1 chaser only...forgeting that from D-Day on it was involved in armed recon, fighter sweeps, and ground attacks all over the place.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Aaron_GT
02-28-2004, 07:30 AM
Well it isn't the weight per se that is
important so much as weight relative to drag.
As a body increases in size its weight tends
to increase more rapidly than surface area
(or drag). However in flight additional
energy is input by the engine, and power loading
becomes important. The Tempest had better
power loading than the P47D (same engine
power, around 15% lighter).

Aaron_GT
02-28-2004, 07:32 AM
The A26 would be a nice addition. I suspect
that once the A20 is in the bag it might
become possible to model the A26 as it
will give the A20 team a lot of relevant
experience (and a headache over all the
differences too!)

Seafire_LIII
02-28-2004, 12:32 PM
Frankly I think the Mosquito and A-26 would be much more fun to have in IL-2 FB than the P-61.

On the subject of the Tempest- Pierre Closterman's book, "The Big Show" is a great account of Tempest combat operations from an ace's perspective. A big question if we get the Tempest in IL-2 FB is: Will they get the sound right?

A authenticity note for those working for inclusion of the Tempest in IL-2 FB. It was necessary for pilots to wear their oxygen masks from startup to landing in the Tempest and Typhoon, due to cockpit fumes.

Copperhead310th
02-28-2004, 01:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MandMs:
The P-61C was too late for WW2.

What should be modelled, instead of the P-61, is the _A-26 Invader_ which had 10 Groups operating the a/c. (47th BG 12th AF; 386th BG, 391st BG, 397th BG, 409th BG, 410th BG, 416th BG, 69th RG 9th AF;, 3rd BG, 319th BG Pacific)



I eat the red ones last.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry. Incorect Sir. the D, & E modles were too late for WWII. the C was not. It was in operational groups for the last 2 months of the war. & flying combat missions in the PTO.

http://imageshack.us/files/copper%20sig%20with%20rank.jpg
310th FS & 380th BG website (http://www.members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron)

MandMs
02-28-2004, 01:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:

Sorry. Incorect Sir. the D, & E modles were too late for WWII. the C was not. It was in operational groups for the last 2 months of the war. & flying combat missions in the PTO.

_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Can you tell me with what units and the bases.

It also depends on when you consider when the war in the Pacific ended. The first P-61C came off the Hawthorne production line in July 1945.

Further,
"The first P-61C aircraft was accepted by the USAAF in July of 1945. However, the war in the Pacific ended before any P-61Cs could see combat. The forty-first and last P-61C-1-NO was accepted on January 28, 1946." http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p61_4.html So it took 6 months to manufacture 41 a/c. They were assigned to ADC at McChord Field, Seattle (12 a/c) while the others were used for research and test missions.


The E model was the XP-61E of which only 2 were built since it could not match the performance of the P-82. The XP-61D, again had only 2 prototypes made.



I eat the red ones last.

Philipscdrw
02-28-2004, 02:45 PM
I've been away for a while. Why did RayBanJockey change his name to StigLr?

Stigly why don't you do something helpful instead of moaning here. Set up your own online campaign where only historical mainstream aircraft are used, and get a credit card (if you're old enough), buy Max, and quit your job (if you have one) and make the planes that you think the sim needs the most.
If you send one more post saying one of our modellers if wasting his or her tie, I'll hunt you down and gut you like a fish. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

PhilipsCDRW

Playing LO-MAC on Win98 with stability.