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itsamea-mario
06-30-2014, 09:41 AM
Remember Bonfire of the vanities when Ezio killed Savonarola to save him from burning to death?
Remember Revelations when Ezio used a flamethrower to kill at least 20 people?

Just a thought.

steveeire
06-30-2014, 09:48 AM
Technically he used the flamethrower to destroy the ships, who knows them soldiers might have just jumped off the ship.

itsamea-mario
06-30-2014, 09:52 AM
Technically he used the flamethrower to destroy the ships, who knows them soldiers might have just jumped off the ship.

And for all we know those ships were full of sailors.

steveeire
06-30-2014, 09:57 AM
It seems unlikely that a ship being used as a blockade would be full of sailors, and if there was I'm sure they'd jump off a ship on fire.

itsamea-mario
06-30-2014, 10:06 AM
It seems unlikely that a ship being used as a blockade would be full of sailors, and if there was I'm sure they'd jump off a ship on fire.

And watching the scene again, there were soldiers firing cannons inside the ship, well soldiers, more likely navy gunners. No way they got out before dying the most painful death there is.

Also what's with the assassins giving all their targets up to mob justice in all the Unity trailers?
They're their to kill, not give them away to be ripped apart.

Ignacio_796
06-30-2014, 10:13 AM
Also, in Revelations, Ezio burned an entire village in Capadoccia just for killing one templar :cool:

Aphex_Tim
06-30-2014, 10:18 AM
It seems unlikely that a ship being used as a blockade would be full of sailors, and if there was I'm sure they'd jump off a ship on fire.

After being burned themselves with Greek fire; you don't simply walk that off.
I also thought Ezio made some incredibly stupid decisions in Revelations. Like the guy above me said, blowing up a gunpowder reservoir in an underground city, probably killing dozens of citizens, just to get to one fat and slow Templar.
Or blowing up an entire tower to lower the Great Chain, having it collapse in a public port. I'm sure he couldn't have just found another, less conspicuous way to lower the chain...

Sesheenku
06-30-2014, 10:32 AM
Ezio disregarded civilians more than any other Assassin. If he hadn't been a decent mentor he probably wouldn't have been remembered fondly by the order.

Farlander1991
06-30-2014, 11:09 AM
I figured it was more about Ezio being tired overall. Like, the very first assassination in the game, he says smth like 'requescant in pace, bastardo' or smth along those line. To me it screamed essentially like, 'yeah yeah, die in peace my one thousandth target, a pain in the *** as well, whatever'. A lot of Ezio's actions were of the 'I just want to get things done' variety in ACR. Which is why his journey and look into Altair's life was important, because he realized that he can't keep up with the cause like Altair had, nor is he willing to, so it's time to retire.

itsamea-mario
06-30-2014, 11:14 AM
I figured it was more about Ezio being tired overall. Like, the very first assassination in the game, he says smth like 'requescant in pace, bastardo' or smth along those line. To me it screamed essentially like, 'yeah yeah, die in peace my one thousandth target, a pain in the *** as well, whatever'. A lot of Ezio's actions were of the 'I just want to get things done' variety in ACR. Which is why his journey and look into Altair's life was important, because he realized that he can't keep up with the cause like Altair had, nor is he willing to, so it's time to retire.

That would be cool.
y'know, if it wasn't something shoehorned in in revelations.

Aphex_Tim
06-30-2014, 11:15 AM
That's all well and good, but that doesn't justify him bringing the lives of innocent civilians in danger, simply because it made things easier for him. Especially with him being the freakin' Mentor! He has to be an example to his pupils and teach them the meaning of the Creed. That doesn't really work if he just disregards every single tenet because he's tired or "too old for this sh*t".
I'm not sure if they made Ezio an ***hole on purpose or if it's just bad writing. And if I can't be sure about that, it's probably the latter.

Farlander1991
06-30-2014, 11:22 AM
I'm not sure if they made Ezio an ***hole on purpose or if it's just bad writing.

I'm pretty sure it's on purpose since Ezio gets called out on some of his assholish actions by Yusuf and Manuel.

pacmanate
06-30-2014, 11:32 AM
Saw your tweets about this...

I wouldn't really compare anything Ezio did in Revelations to anything. It was most likely done on purpose that he would do selfish acts to get his own answers.

Also I don't think it was known that smoke could kill at that time. And tbh, I didnt mind Ezio was being selfish. His whole life was not his own, he needed to know what his life meant.

shobhit7777777
06-30-2014, 11:34 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04F4xlWSFh0

Who GAF?

SixKeys
06-30-2014, 11:51 AM
I figured it was more about Ezio being tired overall. Like, the very first assassination in the game, he says smth like 'requescant in pace, bastardo' or smth along those line. To me it screamed essentially like, 'yeah yeah, die in peace my one thousandth target, a pain in the *** as well, whatever'. A lot of Ezio's actions were of the 'I just want to get things done' variety in ACR. Which is why his journey and look into Altair's life was important, because he realized that he can't keep up with the cause like Altair had, nor is he willing to, so it's time to retire.

They should have addressed it in the game, though. They made clear the fact that Ezio was old and cynical, but not that he had become so cold as to not care about innocent civilians. He should have mentioned in his final speech to Desmond that he realized now that one of the reasons he would have to retire was because he was becoming like the Templars with his ruthlessness and that it wasn't who he wanted to be. The Cappadocia and Greek Fire incidents were basically crossing a line that should never have been crossed - like Batman taking a gun and shooting someone. But the game never addressed them as such. Ezio came out looking like a hero, like he always does, despite doing some really questionable things.

pacmanate
06-30-2014, 11:59 AM
They should have addressed it in the game, though. They made clear the fact that Ezio was old and cynical, but not that he had become so cold as to not care about innocent civilians. He should have mentioned in his final speech to Desmond that he realized now that one of the reasons he would have to retire was because he was becoming like the Templars with his ruthlessness and that it wasn't who he wanted to be. The Cappadocia and Greek Fire incidents were basically crossing a line that should never have been crossed - like Batman taking a gun and shooting someone. But the game never addressed them as such. Ezio came out looking like a hero, like he always does, despite doing some really questionable things.

Well, did they know smoke could kill you then? Pretty sure they didn't, so in Cappadocia it was probably done with intent of diversion.
Greek Fire.... well either he killed everyone with his swords and moved each individual ship, or he did it quicker and with fire.

SixKeys
06-30-2014, 12:03 PM
Well, did they know smoke could kill you then? Pretty sure they didn't, so in Cappadocia it was probably done with intent of diversion.
Greek Fire.... well either he killed everyone with his swords and moved each individual ship, or he did it quicker and with fire.

Lol, I'm pretty sure they knew smoke could kill you by the Renaissance era. Even cavemen probably knew that. All you need is to get close enough to a bonfire, inhale some smoke and realize it makes you choke. "Hey, inhaling this stuff longer than a few seconds would probably make you choke even harder."

pacmanate
06-30-2014, 12:07 PM
Lol, I'm pretty sure they knew smoke could kill you by the Renaissance era. Even cavemen probably knew that. All you need is to get close enough to a bonfire, inhale some smoke and realize it makes you choke. "Hey, inhaling this stuff longer than a few seconds would probably make you choke even harder."

No, they don't choke, they cough, there is a difference.

SixKeys
06-30-2014, 12:09 PM
I'm 99.9999999% certain there were enough known cases back then of people who had fainted during a fire from inhaling smoke and lived to tell the tale.

GunnerGalactico
06-30-2014, 12:15 PM
Any idea what substances Greek Fire is made up of?

pacmanate
06-30-2014, 12:24 PM
Any idea what substances Greek Fire is made up of?

Fire and Greek people

sorry :p

Also, learn to use google

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_fire

itsamea-mario
06-30-2014, 01:38 PM
I will accept that Ezio didn't realise the cavern would be filled with heavy smoke, even if he knew smoke could kill.

LieutenantRex
06-30-2014, 01:39 PM
Connor is way worse. All those 'Templar' and British ships are full of innocent sailors and cabin boys who were most likely press-ganged because most of the sailors in the Revolutionary War were press-ganged on the British side.

So every time you sink some poor ship on the Aquila, you're killing hundreds.

SixKeys
06-30-2014, 01:42 PM
Connor is way worse. All those 'Templar' and British ships are full of innocent sailors and cabin boys who were most likely press-ganged because most of the sailors in the Revolutionary War were press-ganged on the British side.

So every time you sink some poor ship on the Aquila, you're killing hundreds.

It's not about who is worse. Let's not drag Connor into yet another discussion where he doesn't belong.

itsamea-mario
06-30-2014, 01:45 PM
This wasn't an anti Ezio thread, this was a stupid assassins being hypocrites thread, the greek fire is just the first thing that came to mind. They're all fair game.

Except for Altair, he's perfect.

LieutenantRex
06-30-2014, 01:47 PM
It's not about who is worse. Let's not drag Connor into yet another discussion where he doesn't belong.

I'm sorry if I dare add something to a thread about Assassin's being hypocrites.

SixKeys
06-30-2014, 01:48 PM
I'm sorry if I dare add something to a thread about Assassin's being hypocrites.

Suit yourself. Just don't come crying when the thread gets derailed by Connor fans flooding to defend their favorite character. Remember that you started it.

LieutenantRex
06-30-2014, 01:53 PM
Suit yourself. Just don't come crying when the thread gets derailed by Connor fans flooding to defend their favorite character. Remember that you started it.

I've set up my booby traps and gotten my camping gear. I'm ready for them.

itsamea-mario
06-30-2014, 01:56 PM
To be fair, Connor Doesn't have much choice, he can't just let those ships go around freely, and he can't be expected to board every ship.
That's pretty much the behaviour i expect from the assassins, they're supposed to be about the greater good, making sure people are free, they aren't superheroes. For example Altair killing despots, they're usually innocent, just doing a job, but he can't risk them telling their bosses and he's not really in a position to hold them captive until it's done, so he has to kill them.
But there he acknowledges it, and is regretful of it, and at no point does he make a stance against that kind of thing.

Of course there is that old thing the Creed (which i don't think was even mentioned in the last two games) "Stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent" Which is often override by "Do not compromise the brotherhood"

SixKeys
06-30-2014, 01:59 PM
Of course there is that old thing the Creed (which i don't think was even mentioned in the last two games) "Stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent" Which is often override by "Do not compromise the brotherhood"

It wasn't mentioned in ACR either, as I recall. Probably because that game (and ACB as well) had some of the most laughably obvious examples of breaking the third tenet. I especially loved in ACR how Ezio lectured one of his recruits for accidentally killing the wrong guy and then proceeded to burn down all of Cappadocia himself.

itsamea-mario
06-30-2014, 02:06 PM
It wasn't mentioned in ACR either, as I recall. Probably because that game (and ACB as well) had some of the most laughably obvious examples of breaking the third tenet. I especially loved in ACR how Ezio lectured one of his recruits for accidentally killing the wrong guy and then proceeded to burn down all of Cappadocia himself.

Didn't Ezio also kill someone who was actually an ally as well? Some general, in the post kill chat turns out he was against the byazantine templars and was trying to take them down from inside.
Ezio's Eagle sense must be failing him, the silly old blighter.

SixKeys
06-30-2014, 02:10 PM
That was Tarik, but Ezio thought he was a traitor. That one was an accident like his student's (so yeah, way to be a hypocrite there too, Ezio). The Cappadocia incident was intentionally reckless though.

I-Like-Pie45
06-30-2014, 02:41 PM
theyre living in a templar city

so just assume theyre all templars and boom

no innocents killed

Farlander1991
06-30-2014, 02:42 PM
They made clear the fact that Ezio was old and cynical, but not that he had become so cold as to not care about innocent civilians.

"Let's use an angry mob to attract tons of guard attention and destroy the gates" and "Let's blow up weapons to create a panic in the city (also openly counting on it)" aren't clear enough?

itsamea-mario
06-30-2014, 02:46 PM
theyre living in a templar city

so just assume theyre all templars and boom

no innocents killed

That's pretty much how i dealt with all those dead kids in Afghanistan, they were in insurgent occupied regions, they were insurgents.

​I've never been to afghanistan.

LieutenantRex
06-30-2014, 03:07 PM
That's pretty much how i dealt with all those dead kids in Afghanistan, they were in insurgent occupied regions, they were insurgents.

​I've never been to afghanistan.

Well...

JustPlainQuirky
06-30-2014, 03:53 PM
but....but Godzio...

Aphex_Tim
06-30-2014, 03:58 PM
but....but Godzio...

I just realized that's what Haytham says when he tries to pronounce Kaniehtí:io's name.

Hans684
06-30-2014, 04:09 PM
I just realized that's what Haytham says when he tries to pronounce Kaniehtí:io's name.

Hipster Haymitch, saying before it was cool.

Jexx21
06-30-2014, 04:12 PM
theyre living in a templar city

so just assume theyre all templars and boom

no innocents killed

actually it was just a Byzantine city

so imagine it was full of people forced out of their homes a few generations ago hiding from the Ottomans

Jexx21
06-30-2014, 04:17 PM
"My story is one of many thousands, and the world will not suffer if it ends too soon." - Ezio Auditore da Firenze

guys

he was telling us he was a **** because the world suffered more because his story didn't end soon enough

Jexx21
06-30-2014, 11:02 PM
Brotherhood and Revelations had a huge disparity in terms of how they depicted Ezio.

It seems like Ezio got cockier in his old age.

pacmanate
06-30-2014, 11:14 PM
Brotherhood and Revelations had a huge disparity in terms of how they depicted Ezio.

It seems like Ezio got cockier in his old age.

I dunno, I thought he was wiser at the end of AC2 and in Brotherhood. Revelations Ezio could be cocky cause he was a badass

purplekurple
06-30-2014, 11:38 PM
I dunno, I thought he was wiser at the end of AC2 and in Brotherhood. Revelations Ezio could be cocky cause he was a badass

He did pretty much eliminate the entire Italian branch of the Templar order.

Jexx21
06-30-2014, 11:44 PM
I said there was a disparity because Ezio was depicted as someone who practically did nothing wrong (besides killing a lot of Guards) in Brotherhood, and that did a 180 in Revelations.

purplekurple
06-30-2014, 11:48 PM
I said there was a disparity because Ezio was depicted as someone who practically did nothing wrong (besides killing a lot of Guards) in Brotherhood, and that did a 180 in Revelations.

Maybe he had less regard for a foreign land as opposed to Italy.

LoyalACFan
07-01-2014, 01:03 AM
I figured it was more about Ezio being tired overall. Like, the very first assassination in the game, he says smth like 'requescant in pace, bastardo' or smth along those line. To me it screamed essentially like, 'yeah yeah, die in peace my one thousandth target, a pain in the *** as well, whatever'. A lot of Ezio's actions were of the 'I just want to get things done' variety in ACR. Which is why his journey and look into Altair's life was important, because he realized that he can't keep up with the cause like Altair had, nor is he willing to, so it's time to retire.

Yeah, that kind of seemed like the overall gist of ACR to me. He doesn't want to be an Assassin anymore, he's far from home, and most of the people he cares about are dead. He was starting to **** up more and more as an Assassin, so when he found Altair he decided to hang up his guns.

Jexx21
07-01-2014, 01:08 AM
So Ezio is practically saying he'll never be as good of an Assassin mentor as Altair?

I still like Ezio better than Altair :P

LoyalACFan
07-01-2014, 01:25 AM
So Ezio is practically saying he'll never be as good of an Assassin mentor as Altair?

I still like Ezio better than Altair :P

I don't think it's that (though he did seem to be in awe of Altair) but rather that he was already questioning whether he could reconcile his love for Sofia with his life as an Assassin, and Altair's terrible life post-1227 convinced him that it was best to retire and live out the rest of his life in peace. Altair's dedication to the Brotherhood and his obsession with the Apple essentially tore his life apart, so after seeing that, Ezio decided he had done "enough for one life" and turned his back on both the Assassins and the Apple.

Jexx21
07-01-2014, 01:35 AM
I wish they actually pointed out the fact that Ezio was a huge hypocrite in Revelations. I wonder if Darby wrote it that way on purpose as sort of a commentary for how gamers (or just people who consume media in general) can ignore it if people do horrible things as long as they're loved characters.

LoyalACFan
07-01-2014, 03:17 AM
I wish they actually pointed out the fact that Ezio was a huge hypocrite in Revelations. I wonder if Darby wrote it that way on purpose as sort of a commentary for how gamers (or just people who consume media in general) can ignore it if people do horrible things as long as they're loved characters.

I don't really think he was meant to be a hypocrite, they were just showing that he was capable of making really bad decisions. To illustrate that he wasn't infallible as an Assassin, and that he'd be just as susceptible to the mistakes Altair made if he stayed on that path.

Jexx21
07-01-2014, 03:30 AM
I meant a hypocrite in the sense that he admonished his recruits for things that he himself does in the game.

Calvarok
07-01-2014, 05:03 AM
I dunno, I feel like Ezio used what he had to do what was necessary. It's no different than taking down some ships with cannon fire, greek fire was commonly used in ship-to-ship battles at the time. In Savanarola's case he wasn't being faced by a whole fleet of guards, it was just him and a crowd that was on his side. he had the luxury of a "gentler" touch.

I think in many ways Revelations was about Ezio being confronted more than ever with how destructive and violent his life was becoming, and thus deciding to retire and enjoy what little time he had left. The path of an Assassin begins as a blade in the crowd, but over the years that blade makes enemies with its actions, enemies who are younger, smarter, faster. Altair cornered in his fortress by an army and forced to recede. Ezio presumably poisoned by a young templar. Edward ambushed in his home by three rogues. What they did to venerable Templars in their younger lives eventually happens to them. Things spiral out of control. For the Assassins, for the Templars, more often than not this business seems to end in disaster. And often explosions.

LoyalACFan
07-01-2014, 12:03 PM
I meant a hypocrite in the sense that he admonished his recruits for things that he himself does in the game.

It's been a while... Which one are you talking about? The one he scolds for taking an innocent life, when he himself killed Tarik? That was a slightly different circumstance. The apprentice rushed in headlong in a hurry to get the job done, whereas Ezio tailed Tarik to get enough information to incriminate him. He didn't have any way of knowing that Tarik was essentially acting as a double agent, because nobody but Tarik knew that.

JustPlainQuirky
07-01-2014, 04:09 PM
Almost all the Assassins are hypocritcal killers.

And I'm pretty sure they know that.

Hans684
07-01-2014, 05:50 PM
http://www.accesstheanimus.com/ludonarrative_dissonance.html

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134324/the_deaths_of_game_narrative.php

JustPlainQuirky
07-01-2014, 05:54 PM
tl;dr

summarize for my tiny brain pls.

Hans684
07-01-2014, 06:07 PM
tl;dr

summarize for my tiny brain pls.

“In all three of the games alluded to above (Red Dead Redemption, ACII, Uncharted, TN), the storylines are well-written, often subtle, and chock-full of emotional intensity. But when it comes time for the player to engage the game, these narrative highs and lows are obliterated in favor of a much smaller and more stylized range of possible expressions: run, ride, jump, dodge. Kill or be killed.
While it is true that Assassin's Creed II and Red Dead Redemption take great care to highlight their protagonists' distaste for killing, the sheer scope of the in-game violence reduces these caveats to mere lip service in much the same fashion that the anti-spectacle message at the heart of the film Gladiator is undermined by the film's reliance on violent spectacle to carry the drama.
If we cannot overcome this persistent contradiction, game narratives will remain difficult to take seriously, for even as these stories get more serious, the gameplay remains ludicrously indulgent.
In life and in all the best literature and cinema, death is usually an unfortunate and tragic event, and in most cases represents a great loss or failure. But in games -- unless it befalls a character in a cutscene -- death is as common and impactful as a sneeze, and is usually a cause for celebration. It's a triumph of one will over another. What are players to think when a game tries to have it both ways -- a weighty, tragic story and a bloody good time?” - Darby

Or an easy version, both articles talk about narrative and killing((or mass murder) one of the points of this thread if I got it right). "But in games -- unless it befalls a character in a cutscene -- death is as common and impactful as a sneeze, and is usually a cause for celebration." This line sums it up even better. As an example we can use Ezio, his father and brothers got hanged and he goes on a killing spree and at the same time ruining other families in the proses. Another point of this thread, the hypocrisy of the Assassins.

JustPlainQuirky
07-01-2014, 06:21 PM
But in games -- unless it befalls a character in a cutscene -- death is as common and impactful as a sneeze, and is usually a cause for celebration. It's a triumph of one will over another. What are players to think when a game tries to have it both ways -- a weighty, tragic story and a bloody good time? - Darby


Easy way to remedy this. Pacifist Assassin.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/WillSmith.jpg

Another easy way is to fix the hypocritical killer thing is to say that an Ancestor never actually killed guards and that was just the power of the animus giving you an easier time getting through obstacles.

Hans684
07-01-2014, 06:38 PM
Easy way to remedy this. Pacifist Assassin.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/WillSmith.jpg

I would play that, I did play Dishonored without killing anyone.


Another easy way is to fix the hypocritical killer thing is to say that an Ancestor never actually killed guards and that was just the power of the animus giving you an easier time getting through obstacles.

That can work, the Animus could give us a message saying something like that. When and where is up to the teams.

Farlander1991
07-01-2014, 06:52 PM
That can work, the Animus could give us a message saying something like that. When and where is up to the teams.

In AC1 every so often the Animus would say 'resynchronizing' message (mostly after combat scenarios).

I don't think that's that important to have that message, though. I mean, if we go race with thieves before rescuing Caterina or smth, we get it that it's not how Ezio would have done it. If we kill 1000s of guards, we get it that it doesn't necessarily mean that the Assassin has done it precisely like that. That's the beauty of the Animus (really, perfect for avoiding the gameplay-story dissonance).

JustPlainQuirky
07-01-2014, 06:57 PM
Well of course we're smart enough to assume they didnt kill thousands of guards.

But when the areas are structured in a way that almost promote killing (guard next to haystack you were just prompted to jump into for an example), then the indication is still there

Jexx21
07-01-2014, 07:02 PM
the assassins really wouldn't be able to kill armies anyway so that's all the animus doing it's work

tbh, I'd argue that each Assassin probably only killed 200 people (maybe 300) maximum in their lives, and even that's a whole lot of people, even for someone who lives as a killer.

steveeire
07-01-2014, 07:03 PM
poor guards they get the worst places to guard, underground tombs and caves, only for an Assassin to show up one day and kill them all, how do they even get in and out of those places when their shift ends, specially when an Assassin destroys the ways in and out.

Hans684
07-01-2014, 07:04 PM
In AC1 every so often the Animus would say 'resynchronizing' message (mostly after combat scenarios).

Been I while since I've replayed the entire series.


I don't think that's that important to have that message, though.

Agree but that was just a suggestion fitting the topic.


I mean, if we go race with thieves before rescuing Caterina or smth, we get it that it's not how Ezio would have done it. If we kill 1000s of guards, we get it that it doesn't necessarily mean that the Assassin has done it precisely like that. That's the beauty of the Animus (really, perfect for avoiding the gameplay-story dissonance).

Agree, it is the beauty of the Animus. It explains a lot of gamey features like a mini map or a health bar, that's not something many games can(as far as I know).

LoyalACFan
07-01-2014, 07:06 PM
“In all three of the games alluded to above (Red Dead Redemption, ACII, Uncharted, TN), the storylines are well-written, often subtle, and chock-full of emotional intensity. But when it comes time for the player to engage the game, these narrative highs and lows are obliterated in favor of a much smaller and more stylized range of possible expressions: run, ride, jump, dodge. Kill or be killed.
While it is true that Assassin's Creed II and Red Dead Redemption take great care to highlight their protagonists' distaste for killing, the sheer scope of the in-game violence reduces these caveats to mere lip service in much the same fashion that the anti-spectacle message at the heart of the film Gladiator is undermined by the film's reliance on violent spectacle to carry the drama.
If we cannot overcome this persistent contradiction, game narratives will remain difficult to take seriously, for even as these stories get more serious, the gameplay remains ludicrously indulgent.
In life and in all the best literature and cinema, death is usually an unfortunate and tragic event, and in most cases represents a great loss or failure. But in games -- unless it befalls a character in a cutscene -- death is as common and impactful as a sneeze, and is usually a cause for celebration. It's a triumph of one will over another. What are players to think when a game tries to have it both ways -- a weighty, tragic story and a bloody good time?” - Darby

Completely disagree with him here. While I do think AC has become too prone to launching us into bloody massacres every few missions, I completely reject the notion that every death needs to be a dramatic event for a game's story to be "taken seriously" as art. Some of the most critically acclaimed films and novels of all time center on throwaway violence. Virtually every Western ever made, from the low-budget junk to the celebrated classics, features casual killings and gunfights, sometimes even for comedic effect. Remember the bathtub scene in The Good, The Bad, and They Ugly? That movie is universally lauded, and that particular scene is one of the best-remembered. Hell, people get killed left and right even in the Bible, and yet billions of people still find it immensely compelling.

As long as there isn't too much of a disconnect between the character and the violent acts they commit, there isn't an issue. RDR, AC4 and TLOU did a good job of it IMO, but GTA4 is a good example of a game that didn't quite balance its protagonist's characterization with the level of violence displayed; one minute Niko is lamenting the fact that he has killed so many people, and the next he's shooting up a street full of cops screaming "I'LL CUT YOUR F**KING HEART OUT!!!" In that particular instance I think Darby's right on point in saying that the character's professed aversion to violence is an insufficient caveat to the onscreen bloodbath.

Jexx21
07-01-2014, 07:07 PM
a lot of games explain the minimap as a GPS

or just simply a map.

Pretty sure that Far Cry 3's map was both an actual map and a GPS device.