PDA

View Full Version : Check this out....



Bearcat99
06-29-2004, 03:54 PM
While doing some mission researech I came across this site. LINK (http://www.cyberlearning-world.com/lessons/ushistory/ww2/ww2maps.htm)

I think its kind of neat.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959) | MUDMOVERS (http://magnum-pc.netfirms.com/mudmovers/index.htm)

IMMERSION BABY!!

Bearcat99
06-29-2004, 03:54 PM
While doing some mission researech I came across this site. LINK (http://www.cyberlearning-world.com/lessons/ushistory/ww2/ww2maps.htm)

I think its kind of neat.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959) | MUDMOVERS (http://magnum-pc.netfirms.com/mudmovers/index.htm)

IMMERSION BABY!!

eXtra_Corrosiv
06-29-2004, 04:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
While doing some mission researech I came across this site. http://www.cyberlearning-world.com/lessons/ushistory/ww2/ww2maps.htm

I think its kind of neat.

http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html_vflyer@comcast.net_ http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat
http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html | http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/ | http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959 | http://magnum-pc.netfirms.com/mudmovers/index.htm

_IMMERSION BABY!!_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


NICE FIND! tyhanks for sharing. we need sticky topic

Athlon 3200+ / 2x512 corsair c2pt 3200LL / radeon X800 Pro / Audigy 2 ZS / WinXP / Saitek X45

p1ngu666
06-29-2004, 04:31 PM
hm
why is that island on top of japan half japanese?
thought that would be all jap

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

Monty_Thrud
06-29-2004, 05:10 PM
Excellent find http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif...thank you

http://www.uploadit.org/bsamania/Huzzy_no_ordnance03.jpg
"#2 Attack that ship".."#1..with what?".."#2 your ordnance DAMMIT!".."#1 my ordnance is in Olegs office, same place yours is".."#2 we'd better learn German then"

Willi_Wombat
06-29-2004, 08:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
hm
why is that island on top of japan half japanese?
thought that would be all jap
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hmmm, I wonder how the Japanese people feel about the name "jap"?

WW

necrobaron
06-29-2004, 08:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willi_Wombat:

hmmm, I wonder how the Japanese people feel about the name "jap"?

WW<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh,brother....http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Anywho, nice find Bear. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

wayno7777
06-29-2004, 09:11 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gifGood one, Bear, thanks!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Dux_Wreck.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

tttiger
06-29-2004, 11:16 PM
To answer your question Wombat (and necrobaron's ignorant rolling eyes):

Come on over here to Hawaii and try calling a Japanese (either a Japanese national or an American of Japanese Ancestry) a "Jap."

It would be exactly the same as calling a black person (such as Bearcat) a "******."

It is highly racial. And insulting. Acceptable 60 years ago. But not today.

I suggest the Ubi folks consider it as a cuss word so if some racist person uses it, it just shows up as "***".

Get it?

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

Udidtoo
06-29-2004, 11:24 PM
Good find Bear, good to have ya back onboard.

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

necrobaron
06-29-2004, 11:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
To answer your question Wombat (and necrobaron's ignorant rolling eyes):

Come on over here to Hawaii and try calling a Japanese (either a Japanese national or an American of Japanese Ancestry) a "Jap."

It would be exactly the same as calling a black person (such as Bearcat) a "******."

It is highly racial. And insulting. Acceptable 60 years ago. But not today.

I suggest the Ubi folks consider it as a cuss word so if some racist person uses it, it just shows up as "***".

Get it?

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's no more racist than calling one a Yank,Aussie or Brit. Jap is an abbreviation of Japanese. If they find that somehow racist, it's not my problem....

The "N" word is indeed hateful, and is not in any way an abbreviation of a country of origin or somesuch....

This is a typical example of PC going too far.

"Not all who wander are lost."

horseback
06-29-2004, 11:31 PM
In answer to Ping's poorly abbreviated question, the island in question was a matter of dispute between the Empire of Japan and Tsarist Russia, around the turn of the last century. I believe that the Japanese got full possession as a result of the Russo-Japanese War.

When the Soviet Union jumped declared war on Japan in 1945 (between A-bombs), they wanted to take the whole island, but the other Allies objected, and they had to settle for half.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

CowboyTodd41
06-29-2004, 11:43 PM
cool! Thanks Bearcat

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Tgan92/vote.jpg

Fehler
06-29-2004, 11:58 PM
Japanese is not a race, therefore its derivative cannot be considered racial, except by the uneducated half-wit. Japanese IS however an ethnicity. But peoples of Japanese decent fall under the catagory of Asian.

Calling someone an idiot is not a racial slur either, but it may be in poor taste.

I know it sounds a bit picky, but improper use of terms can lead to further misunderstanding.

I once had a trucker tell me that the only reason I stopped him was because I was "Racial against truckers." I told him, "No, but I do dislike dumba$$e$."

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

CPS_Talon
06-29-2004, 11:59 PM
LOL whining about the word "Jap"? Calling it racist? LMAO! It's simply lazy typing. An abreviation. Nothing more.

I somehow doubt the ones whining about this (Especially tttiger) 'offense' are of Japanese origin. Simply oversensitive PC liberal drivel http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif.

The Japanese culture is one of the most zenophobic and racist modern culture in existance today. Give me a break. Ever hear them use the term 'Gaijin' (I think that's the proper english spelling)? That's what non-Japanese are to them. They don't use the term in a resectful manner. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif

Clear skies and tailwinds,
Chuck

BlitzPig_Ritter
06-30-2004, 06:27 AM
If you're goinh to be insulted by the use of the word Jap, then I guess I'll raise a ruckus from now own every time some one says "merikan". Those who have already posted that it is just an abbreviation are right. Now, if you want a racist name for a jap/japanese/(This space reserved for future a PC term), there is a three letter word which starts with N.

______________________________
Formerly Known as: Die_Ritterkreuz
http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v126/Ritterkreuz/Sig1.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&authoridfilter=Ritterkreuz&ts=1067024271&comefrom=credits)
Now with 50+ skins and counting!

Bearcat99
06-30-2004, 07:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by necrobaron:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
To answer your question Wombat (and necrobaron's ignorant rolling eyes):
Come on over here to Hawaii and try calling a Japanese (either a Japanese national or an American of Japanese Ancestry) a "Jap."
It would be exactly the same as calling a black person (such as Bearcat) a "******."
It is highly racial. And insulting. Acceptable 60 years ago. But not today.
I suggest the Ubi folks consider it as a cuss word so if some racist person uses it, it just shows up as "***".
Get it?
ttt
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's no more racist than calling one a Yank,Aussie or Brit. Jap is an abbreviation of Japanese. If they find that somehow racist, it's not my problem....

The "N" word is indeed hateful, and is not in any way an abbreviation of a country of origin or somesuch....
This is a typical example of PC going too far.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I refuse to allow this thread to be hijacked by insensitivity.. but think about this... carefully.... If someone who is in a position to know about the subject and states what he knows about it... why infuse your own opinion on top of what the man said. If he says it is insulting to Japanese Americans and Japanese Nationals then why should any one of you continue to ue the term unless you just want to be rude and insulting? Think about this.... It doesnt MATTER whether YOU think it is insulting or not!!!!! And it is NOT the same as Yank or Brit.... NO WAY!! Americans most that I know, myself included dont mind being called a Yank... it was a term used among allies.. almost affectioately in fact. But the term "JAP" is crawling with racial connotations whether it is short for Japanese or not. The context it was used in was highly racial and even as close as the 70s and 80s when the Japanese auto industry was kicking the US industry on its @ss because of idiot management on our part it was still used in the negative racist context by many Americans. Think about it. Japanese Americans were incarcerated... because they were Japanese. You would have thought that if anyone were to be locked up during WW2 then recent German immigrants would have been locked up or deported since they could easily blend into society where as Japanese folks stood out because of thier different appearence but it wasn't the case. That was ALL about raceism and cultural arrogance. There WERE german American spies.. but they were able to hide because thier skin was not of another hue and they could blend into society. As long as they covered thier butts they were safe. The term Jap is the same as "Coolie""Kafir""*******""Raghead""Towelhead" and shouldnt be used if for no other reason as a common courtesy to those who may be offended by it....... in the Phillipines at the turn of the century they called the Phillipinos"n*****s" and with great pride I might add. Is that so hard to do? To be courteous? Or are some of us so in demand of our "right" to freely speak that we are blinded to the feelings of others? It is just a word and is just as easy not to say as any other word. Why insist on using it when some are insulted by it? Because you can? Because its your"right"? Because you are opposed to "political correctness" (which this isnt .. its just common courtesy...)? Thats like punching someone in the arm and then defining the pain... you cant do it....it isnt your arm no matter how hard or soft YOU think you hit the person. Just because the term Jap has no overt racism attatched to it today or is short for Japanese as far as its spelling goes doesnt mean it isnt insulting. To many Japanese Americans it symbolizes the fact that they werent "good enough" to be trusted. They had to be locked up because the were so "fanatical"..... in the mean time thier sons bled and died the same red blood for the same flag and coutry that had thier parents in concentration camps. Much like Black Americans in the same period. Just dont use the term. If for no other reason for the memory of those Japnese soldiers who died fighting Naziism. Thats why I have a link to the 442nd Nikkei Brigade on my site. It is pretty ballsy and pretty d@mn ignorant to cotinue to insult someone based on YOUR definition of whether or not what you say is an insult as opposed to the insulted persons definition wouldnt you say? Dont forget.. this wasnt too long ago. It isnt like this is something that happened 200 years ago...... if I called a German a Kraut, or a Brit a Limey or a Frenchman a Frog...... sure it probably wouldnt sting as much as "Jap" would to a Japanese American... ESPECIALLY a Japanese American.. but it wouldnt be something they would want you to use all the time either....... "Hey Jim I want you to meet my Kraut friend Johann......." or "Hey lets go over to toss back a few beers with that Limey buddy of yours..." This keeps popping up ...often...I hope now that some of you will finally check yourselves. Im sure you dont mean it in that context.. but your feelings and intentions arent the issue are they?


GET IT NOW?!?

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959) | MUDMOVERS (http://magnum-pc.netfirms.com/mudmovers/index.htm)

IMMERSION BABY!!

[This message was edited by Bearcat99 on Wed June 30 2004 at 06:21 AM.]

Nanuk66
06-30-2004, 09:51 AM
Is 'Nips' any better?

Is that allowed by our American-Japanese poster here?

Or am i gonna get a whole page lecture on why some Japanese might be offended by that term?

Personally i dont see it as a 'racial' term. Asian would be my racial term. But of course its not up to me is it?!
If the Japanese dont like being called Japs then what is acceptable?

'The term Jap is the same as "Coolie""Kafir""*******""Raghead""Towelhead"'

Firstly, is it F**K.
Secondly, can u answer where u think the term 'Jap' came from? If u dont think its just a paraphrase of Japan/Japanese. And if u answer that intelligently then please tell me how that has any likeness to 'Raghead' or 'Towelhead'.

Dont forget that this is a WW2 time period simulation. In those times the japanese were known as Japs (and im sure plenty of other nicks too). So if for instance in the upcoming PF game when discussions take place people who post wont be able to say Jap this and Jap that because the PC police will jump on their back?! And even a suggestion that the term jap should imediately be *'d out?!

The sooner that the Japanese realise that the term 'jap' is meant as a shortning of the word Japanese and not in any way a derogitory(?) term the better. And if they cant see that then surely they can understand why i cant see why it is. Does that make sense?

Its not as thou im walking up to Japanese and saying 'Hi, are you a jap'?, i mean ffs. Get a grip.

All this PC **** pisses meh off! I mean sticks and stones an stuff....

JG301_nils
06-30-2004, 10:09 AM
This is my favorite WW2 place, maps and all. Very good ............
http://www.onwar.com/

Capt._Tenneal
06-30-2004, 10:11 AM
Sorry, and respectfully so, Bearcat, but consider this thread officially hijacked to another "what's PC or not PC" thread.

There is already a 130+ reply topic on this at simhq forums with the same debate starting here. Sad to say it's happening here too.

BTW, nice link to the website. Thanks.

[This message was edited by Capt._Tenneal on Wed June 30 2004 at 09:24 AM.]

Skullin
06-30-2004, 10:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Russo-Japanese War <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is Russo short for Russian ? I am deeply offended as a Yank !
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

Bearcat99
06-30-2004, 10:52 AM
Some of you guys are @ssholes. What is so feckin hard about not being offensive!! If someone goes to you and says hey this is offensive to me and you keep doing it your just being a *****!! Pure and simple... Nips is even worse. No need for the is Russo considered blah blah feckin BLAH!!!! THAT ISNT THE FECKIN POINT!!!!!!! The man said it was insulting.. he is in a position to know apparently. Would it feckin KILL YA to be just a tad considerate!!???? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

And you scumbags deserve this tirade so dont even go there with the "Oooo well what about you callin us @ssholes!!"
If the shoe fits then wear it!!!
Dont you get it!! it has nothing to do with political correctness as much as common courtesy!!!! Its like calling a guy named Robert Bob.... and he says..."Dont call me Bob my name is Rob... or Robert and this is what I prefer.." and you say "Sure Bob whatever......" because hey....... everybody knows Bob is just short for Robert right??

Then when someone tries to reason with you and pull your coat you come back with the same childish, selfish CR@P... so what about the other persons feelings..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif It doesnt matter if its racist or not.. the fact that is it offensive SHOULD be enough.

Bunch a feckin JERKS....... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

And Im sure that p1ngu666 didnt MEAN to be insulting.... I speak to him often.. he isnt that kind of guy... but if one member of the community says "Hey... ya know.. this is kind of insulting to me can you desist please?" WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT SAYING SURE NO PROBLEM!!!!

D@MMIT!!! Now I done hijacked my own thread.....

Hey nothin personal.. you know... Jerks, scumbags, and @ssholes arent racial terms right? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959) | MUDMOVERS (http://magnum-pc.netfirms.com/mudmovers/index.htm)

IMMERSION BABY!!

[This message was edited by Bearcat99 on Wed June 30 2004 at 10:01 AM.]

BSS_Goat
06-30-2004, 11:06 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Some of you guys are @ssholes. What is so feckin hard about not being offensive!!

Is "@ssholes" offensive to anyone? Just checking didnt think so http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

http://images.allposters.com/images/dar/yng-17.jpg

Patriotism is your conviction
that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it
--George Bernard Shaw

tttiger
06-30-2004, 11:21 AM
Sri to hijack your thread, BC. It really is a cool map http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

This isn't a "whine," and I'm not trying to hammer Plingu, with whom I fly now and then. He's a really good guy.

Guys, I learned this lesson the hard way, by using the term "Jap" in front of a respected co-worker not long after I moved to Hawaii. His wife is Japanese. He didn't get mad, but he made it clear it was offensive. I'd never considered it racist before, just like many of you, but I've never used the term again.

I learned from my mistake.

Either you will or you won't.

But I strongly suggest, now that we're moving toward what promises to be a really great Pacific campaign, that Ubi put it on the list of banned words. And I would do the same with the term "Nip." It also is considered a slur.

I'm not trying to be the "Word Police" here. I don't blame anyone who has not lived with and among Japanese people and who don't know that they are offended by the term. I didn't either.

But now I know, and so do you. You can no longer claim ignorance.

So, if you ever are lucky enough to meet our senior US Senator, Dan Inouye, whom I know quite well, you will now be wise enough not to insult him by using a term I know for a fact he considers racist. You also may notice his right arm is missing. He lost it in Italy capturing several German machine gun nests while he was a young lieutenant with the all-Japanese-American 442nd Regimental Combat Team, the most highly decorated unit in the history of the US Army. And that little blue pin on his lapel is the Medal of Honor.

I know a lot of those 442nd guys -- and their ranks are thinning -- and to a man they are proud to be Americans and JUST as proud of their Japanese heritage. They are all genuine heroes and I would not choose to offend them.

Me? I'm just a dumb transplanted Mainland Haole http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Aloha,

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

[This message was edited by tttiger on Wed June 30 2004 at 11:30 AM.]

Bearcat99
06-30-2004, 11:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSS_Goat:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Some of you guys are @ssholes. What is so feckin hard about not being offensive!!

Is "@ssholes" offensive to anyone? Just checking didnt think so http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant it to be. It needed to be. I bet the point still isnt made though. Someone will say...."Well I refuse to be so PC and the offended person should just suck it up........" or "I will say what I want to say and yada yada yada.." or some such drivel. I meant to be as offensive as I could without drawing the ban stick.. and these guys deserve it too. Every member of this forum is valuable and they dont deserve to be subjected to being insulted even after they appeal to a persons considerate instncts and say hey.. this isnt cool..... Everybody makes mistakes but this has been brewing around here for too long for people to not get it. Some of them just dont want to get it. They think thier intellectual definitions of what is insulting or should be insulting is more valid than someone elses feelings... and to that I say BS. It shouldnt take this many posts across this many forums to get the point across that some folks are offended by the term. From what I understand to call a Japanese person a Jap is the same as calling a German a Nazi... sure it isnt directly racial like the term Nazi but different in the sense that it does indeed have racist connotations.

I dont know maybe its just me... I was raised to respect people... all people ... and to also stand up for what I thought was right. To watch someone else get pi$$ed on while the pi$$er calls it rain is the same as having it done to you. I have sat silently about things like this before in other areas of life. If no one says anything then it will just keep goingon. Sure it isnt a major catastrophe.. Im sure the Japanese posters here almost expect that level of ignorance.. after all.. in reality this is a game forum not the UN.... but still..... this is a place where people from all walks and all nations come to communicate.. what better plance to make a point about what may or may not be insulting. Contrary to popular belief ignorance is not bliss. It is just plain ignorant. Not knowing..... well I say let them know.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959) | MUDMOVERS (http://magnum-pc.netfirms.com/mudmovers/index.htm)

IMMERSION BABY!!


Necro I know you are a standup guy. all Im sayin is.. if someone says its insulting.... forget what YOU think.. think about what THEY think and chill. I know you are no racist.........

[This message was edited by Bearcat99 on Wed June 30 2004 at 03:35 PM.]

Mr_Nakajima
06-30-2004, 11:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
If someone who is in a position to know about the subject and states what he __knows__ about it... why infuse your own opinion on top of what the man said. If he says it is insulting to Japanese Americans and Japanese Nationals then why should any one of you continue to ue the term unless you just want to be rude and insulting?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just so.


PS nice link Bearcat

NorrisMcWhirter
06-30-2004, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willi_Wombat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
hm
why is that island on top of japan half japanese?
thought that would be all jap
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hmmm, I wonder how the Japanese people feel about the name "jap"?

WW<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi,

Ah, the old chestnut:

http://www.c-n-articles.de/others/images/chestnut.jpg

People have been warned about using terminology such as this before but...

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

BSS_Goat
06-30-2004, 12:07 PM
Roger that Bearcat, read you Lima Charlie.

http://images.allposters.com/images/dar/yng-17.jpg

Patriotism is your conviction
that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it
--George Bernard Shaw

necrobaron
06-30-2004, 12:23 PM
Now Bear, you know(or do now) that I have the greatest respect for you, but it's ludicrous to imply I'm somehow racist or ignorant simply because I think the term "Jap" is harmless and anyone taking offense to it is being overly sensitive. I was merely coming to Pingu's defense, as I know he meant no harm by it. This overreaction is ridiculous. I suppose I'll just get huffy and outraged when people call me a Yank. One only has to watch the news and see "Yank" isn't necessarily a flattering term anymore. Perhaps the people of Denmark should take offense at being called Danes,too.
Or heaven forbid we call the people of Finland Finns.

Let it be known that from now on when Necro uses the terms Jap,Aussie,Brit,Dane,Finn,Kiwi, (and so on), he means no offense and is simply too lazy to spell out Japanese(or whatever the country or people may be) every time he posts something regarding their planes,etc.

Good grief.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Also,I apologize for helping to lead this thread off topic. I was merely responding to Wombat's statement.

"Not all who wander are lost."

p1ngu666
06-30-2004, 02:17 PM
i didnt mean it in a offensive way at all, i ment it like brit, dane, finn etc

thanks for that info, i didnt know that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

oh btw im reading a kamikaze book atm, and it is rather interesting http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

p1ngu666
06-30-2004, 02:30 PM
o i can be offensive and abuse, belive http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif
im sure anyone who knows me can afirm to that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
ttiger is also a good guy, btw http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

Cajun76
06-30-2004, 03:25 PM
I happen to be in Japan right now, and have been for 2.5 years, serving in the USAF. Bearcat and tttiger are quite correct about the term being perceived as highly insulting. They have a unique culture and have been isolated on an island for much of their history. Whether it's right or wrong, they believe themselves to be somewhat separate and distinct from other Asian peoples. Meaning, the word Japanese not only describes the country, but the people as well. It's hard for people in other, more diversified countries to realize that about 94%-96% of the population is Japanese ethnicity. When you use the term Japanese, you're referring to this group of people, collectively. So it's not just a shortened term for a country, but a people/culture as well. Over here, no one says Jap. It isn't briefed, as far as I know, but even some of these lewd, crude, dudes realize, almost on a subconscious level, that it's wrong.

Someone mentioned "Gaijin". That is a shortened form of their term for foreigner. Basically, a Gaijin is not of the Japanese people. Pretty basic, and I don't feel insulted by it. I have also never heard it directed at me, even when I'm being stared at by someone who has never seen a white person in real life before.

Anytime I haven't wanted to spell out Japanese, I generally simply resort to using a capital J, as in "jay" to shorten Japanese. Works well. I used to have a J girlfriend, and although I'd never call her a Jap, the letter J is used over here for a stand in for Japanese for many things. She never had a problem with J during our correspondence. I'm quite sure she would have been offended by the term Jap. When watching The Last Samurai, I had to stop the DVD to explain my Thai fiancé's question about "Jappos". "Why would he say that?" "Doesn't he know they don't like that?" Not easy to explain my countries/cultures ignorance to someone from another cultural background....

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/p47nh.jpg
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

necrobaron
06-30-2004, 03:42 PM
So now I'm one of the "lewd,crude dudes"? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I suppose I could say, "I like J fighters." though I don't know if anyone would know what the hell I'm talking about. I really can't understand why they would find "Jap" offensive but not "J". It's the same principle.

What about Nip, as in Nipponese? Do the err..."Js"...find that offensive too?

Perhaps rather than using the first syllable of Japanese, I'll use the last. Maybe the "Nese" won't find that offensive.

I'm not trying to be a smart@ss, but clearly this is a mindset I'm having difficulty understanding. Perhaps I am an ignorant nincompoop.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

nickdanger3
06-30-2004, 03:45 PM
Necrobaron, like tttiger, I live in Hawaii and I wouldn't recommend using Jap to describe somebody from Japan.

The population here is maybe about 20% Japanese (either pure or mixed with other nationalities/ethnicities) and Jap is considered quite offensive.

Use it and you will show that you are, well, ignorant and racist. You also might get your butt kicked if you throw it around in the wrong place here.

nickdanger3
06-30-2004, 03:46 PM
And nip is just as bad if not worse.

p1ngu666
06-30-2004, 03:49 PM
hmm
strange i guess, but ppl are strange

maybe u like the p38J? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

theres also formula nippon in japan too.
bit faster than F3000 iirec

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

Red_Russian13
06-30-2004, 04:13 PM
As Harry Carey used to say, "Holy Cow!"

I'm not going to comment on any of the PC stuff or whatever, but I do want to thank Bear Cat for providin' this here link. Good stuff, great find. Thanks.

Hey Cajun, where in Japan are you? Spent a year in Okinawa at Camp Courtney...you wouldn't be at Kadena would you? I really liked my time there. But the mainland is different than Oki. Stay safe and enjoy it...got what, 6 months left?!

Red Russian

GeniusGoneWrong
06-30-2004, 08:56 PM
I really love this PC (pollitical ****) buisness...

Is it just me or does every single race/ethnic have some kind of inferiority complex, so much so that a simple abbreviation of a nationality is taken as a slur...

**** you guys make me laugh sometimes. Seems every second thread I open has some meaningless argument...

Here's some advice
GET OFF YOU'RE ****ING HIGH HORSES!

Nice link too Bear, pity some ****-head had to screw your thread.

ONLINE NAME: Rezmann

What goes up, always comes down........ IN FLAMES (Usually me!)

wayno7777
06-30-2004, 09:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
Me? I'm just a dumb transplanted Mainland Haole http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Aloha,

ttt

]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow! Too much helium. Anyway, when I was stationed in Hawaii, haole was a derrogative term used by the locals to describe any non-Hawaiian. I'm hoping that in the past 25 years things have improved.

ps.tttiger, is the Monkey Bar still there?

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Dux_Wreck.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

Dawg-of-death
06-30-2004, 10:07 PM
Nice find

S~

Bad-MF(Mongrel Fighter) AKA .......Dawg-of-death

tttiger
06-30-2004, 10:13 PM
LOL, haole (which means outsider or foreigner, usually white but a black or hispanic person could be haole as well) is only pejorative if it is preceded by the F word.

Otherwise, it is just a way of describing someone. If I'm going to meet someone at a restaurant and we don't know each other, I'll describe myself as a "haole guy." That's as opposed to a "local," which means "brown skin (Asian and/or Pacific Islander)." Neither term is demeaning (unless you add an adjective http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

Sadly, the racial friction here remains. The Hawaiian Sovereignty movement has made it even more vocal and nasty at times. Pity.

I live on Kauai and have spent very little time in Honolulu, haven't even been over there in four years. So I'm not familiar with the bars.

Aloha,

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

[This message was edited by tttiger on Wed June 30 2004 at 09:24 PM.]

wayno7777
06-30-2004, 10:59 PM
I envy you. I wanted to get over to Kauai to go fishing, but never got the chance. The Monkey Bar was in Pearl City. A bunch of monkeys were in cages behind the bar. I actually spent most of my free time in Haleiwa and Waimea. Shaka Bra.

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Dux_Wreck.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

nickdanger3
07-01-2004, 02:49 AM
tttiger is spot on - originally haole meant foriegner but has come to mean white/caucasian/european and is only derogatory if it's well, derogatory. My hawaiian/chinese/japanese/irish wife has no problem describing herself (and me) as haole.

Cajun76
07-01-2004, 03:17 AM
I'm pretty much anti-PC myself. You can't please everyone, we all know this. That dosen't mean that I have the right to insult people either. Being from the Southern US, I've seen the kind of casual, unthinking stereotypes and words used by people that don't know any better, white and black. I sometimes get a negative reaction from people when I tell them I'm from the South, and proud of it. Louisiana has a rich, unique history and culture, but there are folks (any color or ethnicity) that might have a negative impression of me. All I can do is live my life and treat my fellow man with respect and dignity, and hope they do the same for me. The Japanese don't use Jap, but they do have products like J-Phone(cell phone), J-Pop (music), and things like that. "Jap" was used for many years as a derogatory term, so just because it's common, doesn't mean it's correct. I don't really know how to put it another way than what I've said here and in the previous post. "Jap" isn't just a shortened word for a country or it's people. Simple as that. Put it this way: Would you call a Japanese person you just met, young, old, peer, woman, man a "Jap" to their face? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

@RedRussian: I'm in Tokyo, stationed at Yokota AB. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I'm getting short, but I'm hoping I get command sponsorship to stay here another year. Regardless, it's been a great experience. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

@Bearcat: Thanks for the link! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/p47nh.jpg
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Jasko76
07-01-2004, 04:03 AM
IBTL!

The mods will happily lock this one down if you don't clean up this mess, Bear. I don't understand the violent reaction of some of the posters. It's not like we're discussing weather Me 262 could go supersonic or something.

Ahh... the good old days with MiloMorai, RBJ, evil twins... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Regards,

Jasko
http://users.skynet.be/orbus/Images/husein_kapetan.jpg

Zmaj od Bosne

necrobaron
07-01-2004, 01:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
I'm pretty much anti-PC myself. You can't please everyone, we all know this. That dosen't mean that I have the right to insult people either. Being from the Southern US, I've seen the kind of casual, unthinking stereotypes and words used by people that don't know any better, white and black. I sometimes get a negative reaction from people when I tell them I'm from the South, and proud of it. Louisiana has a rich, unique history and culture, but there are folks (any color or ethnicity) that might have a negative impression of me. All I can do is live my life and treat my fellow man with respect and dignity, and hope they do the same for me. The Japanese don't use Jap, but they do have products like J-Phone(cell phone), J-Pop (music), and things like that. "Jap" was used for many years as a derogatory term, so just because it's common, doesn't mean it's correct. I don't really know how to put it another way than what I've said here and in the previous post. "Jap" isn't just a shortened word for a country or it's people. Simple as that. Put it this way: Would you call a Japanese person you just met, young, old, peer, woman, man a "Jap" to their face? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

@RedRussian: I'm in Tokyo, stationed at Yokota AB. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I'm getting short, but I'm hoping I get command sponsorship to stay here another year. Regardless, it's been a great experience. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

@Bearcat: Thanks for the link! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/p47nh.jpg
What if there were no hypothetical questions?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I didn't want to continue to hijack Bear's thread, but I'll say this. By all accounts, Jap is a shortened form of Japanese(how could it not be?), and if they are arrogant enough to be somehow offended by their country's name being abbreviated, I simply can't help it. This also brings up a point I've just realized might have been misunderstood. I'm only talking about internet vernacular. If I saw a Japanese gentleman on the street more than likely I would not even address his ethnicity, and even if I did, of course I wouldn't be lazy enough to simply call him "Jap",but rather Japanese. I'm not necessarily suggesting calling the Japanese PEOPLE "Japs", but rather their products,hardware,etc. Remember P1ngu was referring to the Jap planes, not the people. To me there is a distinction. I largely use "Jap" as an adjective and not a noun. In any case, this little debate has become moot, and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. If any of you think the lesser of me, then so be it.

"Not all who wander are lost."