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View Full Version : The reason why Ubisoft hasn't introduced a female protagonist yet IMO..........



saicharanb93
06-21-2014, 07:04 PM
Ubisoft has been lashed pretty harsh by both the media and the gaming community alike for its recent comments on why they couldn't include a female character in AC: Unity. Is it really that hard for Ubi to have a female character in an Assassin's Creed game? Is adding new animations the only problem? No, i think, the problem might be much deeper.

The characters and the story in every game are developed around a pre-conceived idea or a theme; For The Last Of Us, the basic idea was to create a post apocalyptic world and then came Joel and Ellie. Watch Dogs was first decided to be a game about hacking; then came Aiden Pearce and Clara Lille. Hence the plot, the characterization and even the timeline are decided once the basic idea of gameplay has been decided. But for the AC series, its different. Quite the opposite, actually.

For every AC game, first a historical timeline and the historical place has to be decided; and around this the whole game has to be constructed, even the gameplay mechanics, the story etc. For example, AC3 was NOT set in America bcoz it had naval gameplay, AC3 had naval gameplay BECAUSE it was set in America.

Hence even though Ubi did have a chance to include a female character, I feel they are planning for something big in a later installment. From what I gathered through wikipedia, women in the french revolution had a major role but it was mostly political; not really an interesting gameplay aspect. So maybe Ubi are looking for a good timeline that can fit in a strong female character? All I am saying is that developing an AC game is very different than developing other games and it isnt very flexible. So lets give Ubi some time; afterall Ubi have given us a Syrian Assassin, an Italian one, an English one and a woman too and although it was not a major game, i expect them to make one soon.

Although Ubi declared that re-doing animations was the problem, i think this might be one of the problems for them if they are planning on introducing a strong and stand-alone female protagonist.

Also, I know that Aveline was introduced in Liberation but frankly i was expecting a bigger game; if Ubi were to really bring in a strong female lead then one would expect a whole game or even maybe a series.

What do you guys think? Am i looking too much into things?

HercRembrandt
06-21-2014, 07:13 PM
For example, AC3 was NOT set in America bcoz it had naval gameplay, AC3 had naval gameplay BECAUSE it was set in America.



No, AC3 had naval gameplay because Ubisoft Singapore happened to develop it without any explicit instructions to do so. The AC3 team though it was neat-o and added it into the game.

You give them too much credit for having a cohesive vision.

Edit: Also, Aveline wasn't only a DLC. Liberation.

deskp
06-21-2014, 07:20 PM
Come on Aveline wasnt only a DLC...


Also people seem to have satrted using this forum for post what seems liek blog posts. theres plenty of topics already made where you an have your say about the famels in AC topic.

DumbGamerTag94
06-21-2014, 07:23 PM
How about they just decided it didn't quite fit? Maybe there's no conspiracy against women and it was only done because it hasn't made any good sense to yet? Just a crazy thought. But it couldn't just be that simple lol :rolleyes:

SixKeys
06-21-2014, 07:27 PM
I believe OP is wrong and here's my proof: the most famous assassin in the French Revolution was a woman. Considering Ubi generally does plenty of research, it can't have been a case of choosing a time period at random and coming up with a male protagonist on a whim. You would practically have to go out of your way to ignore women's contribution to the Revolution.

saicharanb93
06-21-2014, 07:30 PM
No, AC3 had naval gameplay because Ubisoft Singapore happened to develop it without any explicit instructions to do so. The AC3 team though it was neat-o and added it into the game.

You give them too much credit for having a cohesive vision.

Edit: Also, Aveline wasn't only a DLC. Liberation.

Agreed that naval gameplay was developed independently, but that wasnt the main reason as to why the game was set in America, was it? I guess, the naval gameplay was added after it was decided that the game would be set in America and not the other way around ( if i am to belive the interviews given by the devs ) When i said " AC3 had naval cos it was set in americ" i didnt mean that the naval gameplay was created for AC3, i meant that it was included in the game bcoz it suited the timeline and location and not the other way around.

Also, yes, i know about Liberation, i am sorry i forgot to mention it as it is the only one i havent played in the series but it is no where near to the magnitude of the other AC games............... Although, i agree it is a pretty big game in itself.

Well, always been a big fan of Ubi so............................. :)

Shahkulu101
06-21-2014, 07:31 PM
I believe OP is wrong and here's my proof: the most famous assassin in the French Revolution was a woman. Considering Ubi generally does plenty of research, it can't have been a case of choosing a time period at random and coming up with a male protagonist on a whim. You would practically have to go out of your way to ignore women's contribution to the Revolution.

What makes you think they are ignoring woman's contribution just because the protagonist isn't a woman?

That's complete non-logic.

saicharanb93
06-21-2014, 07:33 PM
Come on Aveline wasnt only a DLC...


Also people seem to have satrted using this forum for post what seems liek blog posts. theres plenty of topics already made where you an have your say about the famels in AC topic.

Sorry about that, I edited it now. And sorry about the other thing too, i didnt notice the other topics :(

DumbGamerTag94
06-21-2014, 07:34 PM
I believe OP is wrong and here's my proof: the most famous assassin in the French Revolution was a woman. Considering Ubi generally does plenty of research, it can't have been a case of choosing a time period at random and coming up with a male protagonist on a whim. You would practically have to go out of your way to ignore women's contribution to the Revolution.

And how do we know that it has been ignored? I guarentee that the women's march makes the game. And I bet the woman you speek of will most likely be a member of the assassin brotherhood. So we can't say they ignored women's contributions just because the protag is a man.

saicharanb93
06-21-2014, 07:36 PM
How about they just decided it didn't quite fit? Maybe there's no conspiracy against women and it was only done because it hasn't made any good sense to yet? Just a crazy thought. But it couldn't just be that simple lol :rolleyes:

Lol, i never said that there is any conspiracy against women or anything and i agree with you that they just havent found a good story or setting for a female protagonist, and thats exactly the point i tried to justify.

SixKeys
06-21-2014, 07:41 PM
What makes you think they are ignoring woman's contribution just because the protagonist isn't a woman?

That's complete non-logic.

Most of the time people's logic is "well, they couldn't have had a female protagonist because women didn't do much back then". This time Ubi had a perfect opportunity to put a female protag in their game without it being out of place in the least. They put in not one but four guys instead.

SixKeys
06-21-2014, 07:47 PM
There is one protagonist. Not four.

I guarantee woman and their contributions will be shown on-screen as key events and that there will be meaningful female characters.

Yeah yeah, everyone plays as Arno. That's why on posters we have four dudes that look different and why Ubi couldn't find it in their hearts to prioritize a co-op experience where people could choose their gender.

I'll bet Arno will actually be the one to kill Marat while his female recruit watches from the background. So they can claim she has a "strong presence" in the story. :rolleyes:

saicharanb93
06-21-2014, 07:53 PM
Yeah yeah, everyone plays as Arno. That's why on posters we have four dudes that look different and why Ubi couldn't find it in their hearts to prioritize a co-op experience where people could choose their gender.

I'll bet Arno will actually be the one to kill Marat while his female recruit watches from the background. So they can claim she has a "strong presence" in the story. :rolleyes:

If Arno is the one thats gonna kill Marat then I am gonna be really pissed. I read that De Corday d'Armont was the woman who assassinated Marat and it better stay that way....................

Shahkulu101
06-21-2014, 08:00 PM
Yeah yeah, everyone plays as Arno. That's why on posters we have four dudes that look different and why Ubi couldn't find it in their hearts to prioritize a co-op experience where people could choose their gender.

I'll bet Arno will actually be the one to kill Marat while his female recruit watches from the background. So they can claim she has a "strong presence" in the story. :rolleyes:

If the animus had a mode where you could select a character that would be stupid. It makes it easier to access if you're the one character because you don't need to choose a seperate co-op mode in the menu's. It works seamlessly like in W_D.

The decision to always be Arno directly benefits gameplay because it's seamless like I said above, and you can customize your gear for co-op as well. How else would you upgrade your character if you had it select one in a menu? I still think that females should appear as skins for others to see but being Arno (one character) all the time is the best way to do co-op in AC.

But no, I suppose the ability to select a certain gender is more important that gameplay anyway...

Jexx21
06-21-2014, 08:07 PM
No, AC3 had naval gameplay because Ubisoft Singapore happened to develop it without any explicit instructions to do so. The AC3 team though it was neat-o and added it into the game.

You give them too much credit for having a cohesive vision.

Edit: Also, Aveline wasn't only a DLC. Liberation.

Pretty sure that they were developing it for AC3 but it became something bigger and cooler than they anticipated.

SixKeys
06-21-2014, 08:07 PM
If the animus had a mode where you could select a character that would be stupid. It makes it easier to access if you're the one character because you don't need to choose a seperate co-op mode in the menu's. It works seamlessly like in W_D.

Okay, then how about a co-op where there are only 4 playable characters and the game randomly chooses which one to display for each player as their avatar? You will always see yourself as Arno but your co-players can be male or female. It's just a different skin, after all.


But no, I suppose the ability to select a certain gender is more important that gameplay anyway...

Being able to select your gender is part of gameplay. I don't see why we can't have both when Ubi certainly has both the money and technology.

Shahkulu101
06-21-2014, 08:16 PM
Okay, then how about a co-op where there are only 4 playable characters and the game randomly chooses which one to display for each player as their avatar? You will always see yourself as Arno but your co-players can be male or female. It's just a different skin, after all.



Being able to select your gender is part of gameplay. I don't see why we can't have both when Ubi certainly has both the money and technology.

Listen, they totally should have made female skins for your friends to see to show that female assassins existed. That was not a good decision and I fully believe Ubisoft could do that, but playing as Arno (one character) all the time and being able to upgrade that character throughout your single player experience and show off outfits to your friends is a good design decision in my opinion. It sounds weird on paper that you're always the same guy and you're friends are too, but it works in practice. It's a good way for co-op to be implemented in Assassin's Creed because having seperate menu's for co-op and character selection would pull you out of the animus experience, the feeling your reliving the life of one person in history. I think you're idea of having four playable characters would work if all four were integral to the story and were protagonists in the main game, but that's a crap ton of work. I also wouldn't mind character selection if the characters were all protagonists in the main game, I just feel it would be silly if we selected a random Assassin.

SixKeys
06-21-2014, 08:27 PM
Did having menus for assassin recruits pull you out of the experience in ACB-AC3?

Shahkulu101
06-21-2014, 08:32 PM
Did having menus for assassin recruits pull you out of the experience in ACB-AC3?

No because I was managing my recruits as Ezio, not selecting a random assassin that had nothing to do with the story and then doing a mission playing as them.

Hans684
06-21-2014, 08:37 PM
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120406091909/farcry/images/thumb/2/2e/Far_Cry_3_-_Ubisoft_E3_2011_Press_Conference_HD_1080p/600px-Far_Cry_3_-_Ubisoft_E3_2011_Press_Conference_HD_1080p.jpg

Xstantin
06-21-2014, 09:26 PM
Yeah yeah, everyone plays as Arno. That's why on posters we have four dudes that look different and why Ubi couldn't find it in their hearts to prioritize a co-op experience where people could choose their gender.

I'll bet Arno will actually be the one to kill Marat while his female recruit watches from the background. So they can claim she has a "strong presence" in the story. :rolleyes:

They have done the same with John Pitcairn (who was killed by a former slave). I think it would be better if Arno simply watched her kill Marat or assisted her somehow, as long as it's not another Paul Revere's ride :nonchalance:.

SixKeys
06-21-2014, 09:37 PM
No because I was managing my recruits as Ezio, not selecting a random assassin that had nothing to do with the story and then doing a mission playing as them.

I don't get it. How does that make any difference? You said the Animus menus are what creates the immersion-breaking, but you don't have a problem managing your assassins through Animus menus in ACB.

In my example it's more like Left 4 Dead. You join a mission, four avatars are available, and each person in your team gets randomly assigned to one. Not that difficult.

dxsxhxcx
06-21-2014, 09:44 PM
they didn't add a female avatar for co-op simply because they didn't want to waste resources with new animations..

Kagurra
06-21-2014, 09:44 PM
...

DOES IT RLLY MATTER

geez.

SixKeys
06-21-2014, 09:46 PM
they didn't add a female avatar for co-op simply because they didn't want to waste resources with new animations..

They could have re-used Aveline's or any of the multiplayer characters they've had in the series since 2010. Problem solved.


...

DOES IT RLLY MATTER

geez.

Yes.

Shahkulu101
06-21-2014, 09:53 PM
I don't get it. How does that make any difference? You said the Animus menus are what creates the immersion-breaking, but you don't have a problem managing your assassins through Animus menus in ACB.

In my example it's more like Left 4 Dead. You join a mission, four avatars are available, and each person in your team gets randomly assigned to one. Not that difficult.

I didn't word it properly, but I meant that the co-op should be integral to the single player. I want to play as someone that matters in my story, not some random avatar in a mode completely separate from single player and having no connection whatsoever. And I like your idea, as long as the four avatars were protagonists in single player. That way everything ties in to the co-op and there's no disconnect between the two.

There'd be no harm in having a selected skin that you can change now and again I guess, this would be the ones your friend see. But having Arno being the one and only assassin you play as was not a malicious attack against females, just a design decision. And like I said, you should totally appear as a female sometimes and ubi messed up with their decision not to include them.

As for if Arno should have been a woman, that's another discussion. I don't think a characters gender can be decided by criteria - for example just because there was a large female contribution in the French Revolution that doesn't mean Ubi are obligated to make the protagonist female.

Kagurra
06-21-2014, 09:58 PM
Yes.

Why? Seriously.

Shahkulu101
06-21-2014, 10:00 PM
Powder keg lit.

Popcorn prepared - I'm out.

I-Like-Pie45
06-21-2014, 10:05 PM
Powder keg lit.

Popcorn prepared - I'm out.

can Meow have some

TheHumanTowel
06-21-2014, 10:09 PM
they didn't add a female avatar for co-op simply because they didn't want to waste resources with new animations..
That's a pretty weak reason to me considering the resources and time available to this game. Some Naughty Dog animator also said it's not nearly as big as task as Ubisoft made it out to be.

JustPlainQuirky
06-21-2014, 10:21 PM
Erhmagerd I cant see female assassinsin co-op walkin past mi and i cant play as genderbent Arno.

2/10 game sexist

adventurewomen
06-21-2014, 10:23 PM
Aveline was the first female protagonist of AC, why do some people keep forgetting her? :(

Sesheenku
06-21-2014, 10:24 PM
Listen, they totally should have made female skins for your friends to see to show that female assassins existed. That was not a good decision and I fully believe Ubisoft could do that, but playing as Arno (one character) all the time and being able to upgrade that character throughout your single player experience and show off outfits to your friends is a good design decision in my opinion. It sounds weird on paper that you're always the same guy and you're friends are too, but it works in practice. It's a good way for co-op to be implemented in Assassin's Creed because having seperate menu's for co-op and character selection would pull you out of the animus experience, the feeling your reliving the life of one person in history. I think you're idea of having four playable characters would work if all four were integral to the story and were protagonists in the main game, but that's a crap ton of work. I also wouldn't mind character selection if the characters were all protagonists in the main game, I just feel it would be silly if we selected a random Assassin.

You cant' just a slap a skin on something to make it look female...

Models work like this, they're basically wire frames shaped into a human shape and then covered with a "sheet" of textures. If I put a "sheet" of textures for a female all that will happen is it will be a female textured male body.

They have to at the minimum pull their generic female models and faces but that's not the problem, the problem is remaking every hood, boot, gauntlet, belt, robe, and EVERYTHING ALL OVER AGAIN for female characters. Oh AND they may have to put more bones in those models to accommodate weapon sheaths and other such things.

Ubisoft has NEVER had this kind of work load, VERY few consoles games in recent times have. Naughty Dogs was calling them out but they honestly have no right to speak, they've never attempted a game at that graphical fidelity AND size and scope.

It's like trying to compare Tomb Raider to Skyrim, which one did you think took longer to make? Skyrim and Skyrims graphics are *** in comparison.

It's not necessarily directed at you btw Shahk.

AssassinHMS
06-21-2014, 10:26 PM
That's a pretty weak reason to me considering the resources and time available to this game. Some Naughty Dog animator also said it's not nearly as big as task as Ubisoft made it out to be.

Maybe it isn't the strongest of reasons but, guess what, there is no need for a reason.

dxsxhxcx
06-21-2014, 10:30 PM
They could have re-used Aveline's or any of the multiplayer characters they've had in the series since 2010. Problem solved.

"It turns out playable female characters were going to be included until they were scrapped because of the additional work that would have been involved."

"Had female characters been included, Ubisoft would have had to 'redo a lot of animation, a lot of costumes.' In effect, 'It would have doubled the work on those things.'"

As noted above, Ubisoft has a whopping ten studios contributing to Unity, but despite the huge amount of manpower devoted to the game,Therien says all of it's needed 'to make what we are doing here.'"

source: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2014-ubisoft-explains-why-assassin-s-creed-unity-lacks-female-leads/1100-6420359/

it seems to me that time is a resource they can't afford to waste with such details. there's also the possibility that their development process really is a mess like some anonymous Ubisoft "employees" stated some times or that they simply didn't care about the matter because they know the effect this will have on the game sales will be minimal...

Xstantin
06-21-2014, 10:32 PM
Ubisoft has NEVER had this kind of work load, VERY few consoles games in recent times have. Naughty Dogs was calling them out but they honestly have no right to speak.


I'm waiting for the game with Natalie Drake and Victoria "Sally".

TheHumanTowel
06-21-2014, 10:32 PM
Maybe it isn't the strongest of reasons but, guess what, there is no need for a reason.
Ubisoft can do whatever they want with the game but according to them that is the only reason there isn't female avatars for coop. That's the reason they gave so there being a need for a reason is irrelevant.

Jexx21
06-21-2014, 10:34 PM
it's not just the animations it's every single clothing choice that arno has available to him

Sushiglutton
06-21-2014, 10:37 PM
Stay focused Ubi! The last major "reboot", AC3, was a bloated game and kind of a mess. Do not want that again. It's easy to comment from the sideline and say they should add this and that (I should know, because I do it all the time ;) ). For Unity I feel redesigned pillars+co-op+super detailed city, is more than enough. Just keep you eyes on the ball!

(two soccer references in one short post, not bad)

Shahkulu101
06-21-2014, 10:39 PM
Why couldn't the females have just wore Arno's clothes? His robes look almost unisex, they'd fit more slender builds. And they don't all necessarily need to have super-model bodies.

AssassinHMS
06-21-2014, 10:42 PM
Ubisoft can do whatever they want with the game but according to them that is the only reason there isn't female avatars for coop. That's the reason they gave so there being a need for a reason is irrelevant.

And because we all clearly know what is going inside Ubisoft plus the fact we know better than them what it takes to develop AC Unity, we have the power to state whether the reasons behind their actions are strong or weak.

Perhaps we should be discussing things that matter or that we actually know about?

JustPlainQuirky
06-21-2014, 10:42 PM
I used to be indifferent to having a male or female protagonist in AC but now I hope Ubi has a person with a vajayjay for next game so people can stop harping on about it.

Jexx21
06-21-2014, 10:44 PM
Because they'd need to be modified to include wider hips and a bust.

Just because Arno's clothes look like they can fit women doesn't mean that women don't look differently in them than men. The robes aren't armor, despite what the gameplay would have you believe.

dxsxhxcx
06-21-2014, 11:02 PM
Ubisoft has NEVER had this kind of work load, VERY few consoles games in recent times have. Naughty Dogs was calling them out but they honestly have no right to speak, they've never attempted a game at that graphical fidelity AND size and scope.

Last time I checked we aren't the ones who set their deadlines (at least I'm not).

TheHumanTowel
06-21-2014, 11:11 PM
And because we all clearly know what is going inside Ubisoft plus the fact we know better than them what it takes to develop AC Unity, we have the power to state whether the reasons behind their actions are strong or weak.

Perhaps we should be discussing things that matter or that we actually know about?
It's a set of animations not some massive undertaking. I'm not saying it's something they could bang out in an hour but Ubisoft aren't some indie studio. If they'd really wanted female avatars I'm sure they could've found the resources somewhere in the TEN studios who worked on this game over the 3 or so years they worked on it.

AssassinHMS
06-21-2014, 11:16 PM
It's a set of animations not some massive undertaking. I'm not saying it's something they could bang out in an hour but Ubisoft aren't some indie studio. If they'd really wanted female avatars I'm sure they could've found the resources somewhere in the TEN studios who worked on this game over the 3 or so years they worked on it.

Or perhaps they used those resources for something else, something that matters.

TheHumanTowel
06-21-2014, 11:19 PM
Or perhaps they used those resources for something else, something that matters.
Yeah like the user interface of a breadmaking minigame no one will play.

Bashilir
06-21-2014, 11:21 PM
If the game has been in production for 3 years, it sounds like to me it's more than halfway done. Meaning to include a female character, would involve new animations, noises(such as falling down and making a groan when she falls, which probably wouldn't be hard), taking the female character and putting them into any cutscene that involves the 4 assassins, choosing which assassin to scrap from the co-op, and I'm sure there's more.

It's more than likely a time thing rather than being a "resources" thing. I agree a female assassin would have been excellent and break up the "man power" thing going on but is it that big of a deal?
I don't understand why this issue is such a big deal now after AC1, AC2, ACB, ACR, AC3, AC4 all having a male character only. Seems a bit silly to complain about it now.

king-hailz
06-21-2014, 11:22 PM
Well there might not be a female in the co op... but there will be many female characters... including the second main character (probably)... i think she could be an assassin or a templar... it would be awesome if she was the grand master templar... instead of a strong female protagonist... a strong female awesome antagonist!

Probably wont happen... oh well....

https://fbcdn-photos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-0/10492611_517146428386271_7692333627492912194_n.jpg

AssassinHMS
06-21-2014, 11:22 PM
Yeah like the user interface of a breadmaking minigame no one will play.

If you say so. But yeah, that's a good comparison.

RagingDragon14
06-22-2014, 02:05 AM
Sorry for the hijack/piggyback. Most of this post isn't directed at you, but is more general ranting I need to say.

Producer/Project Manager with more than a dozen shipped titles across every major platform chiming in, including more than a couple with 8-digit budgets.

Different words get used with different context within the game industry that have a different flavor internally than it might to the general public. Words like "cost", "expensive", and "feature" can mean ENTIRELY different things depending on who you're talking to.

Something "costly" could mean it takes up a lot of bandwidth cycles within a game engine. Something "expensive" could mean that the project manager feels it's going to take a lot of work/effort/complexity during a particular release cycle. Something that's a feature could simply be a particular requested item from a designer (could also be called a story, an epic, an ask, an item, or whatever terminology that team is using at the time, often depending on the methodology the team is using for production).

On my current team, EVERYTHING that is requested by the EP, CD, or designers is a "feature" - regardless of what it is. Want a new animation? That's a feature. Want a new weapon type? Feature. New character archetype? Feature. Anything new that does not already exist within the game is a feature. Anything that is involved in the work necessary to create the feature is a task or subtask. A collection of features is either a theme or an epic (depending on the flavor of the collection).

This shorthand exists for teams of developers to work efficiently together. My production staff does all the wrangling so that the designers, engineers, artists, animators, and QA can do more work and still get home to their families while their kids are still awake.

Features all have costs. To the project. To the company. To my team members. If I have to make a call as to whether or not this product of entertainment includes a feature that leaves someone somewhere feeling a bit left out OR whether or not my development staff has to put in some weekends (a staff that includes significant numbers of women - many of whom are mothers or even grandmothers, mind you), then I'm going to want to weigh those costs against their work/life balance...and your personal feelings on the subject aren't nearly as important to me as the well-being of my team. Sorry if that offends. Actually, no I'm not.

Building out a new female character is just as difficult as creating a new <insert ANY adjective here> character. It means new concepts, models, rigging, storyline changes/additions, script changes, VO, and cut scene changes/additions. All of these additions now live in the game code alongside everything else, which might already be getting pretty crowded depending on what platforms you're delivering to. All of these additions make the code base larger and even more complex. All of these additions create bugs and technical debt that needs to first be found through additional QA (sorry guys, you're in this weekend because of the new character cut scenes) which then result in more work from the engineers (sorry guys, you're in next week till 10 PM mandatory because of the expected bugs from the new cut scene that QA will find over the weekend).

Because it's a console title that has a firm ship date (release date for AC5 is October 28th), you want to be submitted at least 8 weeks in advance to first party approvals (Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo have to approve the code you want to put on their systems before they allow you to go to manufacturing - the RTM, or Release to Manufacturer is required before you can put your disk in a box). Once you have your approval, you have a scheduled and contracted run at one of the THREE approved manufacturers allowed to take your production run within the U.S. Miss your RTM date and too ****ing bad - EA or Activision or Majesco or whoever has the time scheduled immediately after yours and they're not in a mood to negotiate with you for Q3/4 sales numbers. Once you DO get through your manufacture period, you have to get the units on the shelves at Target, BestBuy, Fry's, GameStop and anyone else you've contracted shelf space with. What? You think those end caps and front facing shelf spaces are just free and randomly put together by the store staffs? That's cute.

Bottom line to the above? AC5 is already well into alpha (feature complete) and possibly already into beta (asset complete) if they want to hit that late August/early Sept submission date they have looming ahead of them.

Best estimates I've heard from people I know at Ubi are that the additional female character was prototyped out very early but sidelined as the game itself is massive and requires an inordinate amount of work just to get the co-op working in the first place. They wanted to get back to the female character, but after costing her out, discovered it would take between 25-50 days of work to get her added in properly (that's the important word, by the way - will get back to it in a bit).

That 25-50 days isn't something you can just throw money and people at by the way. Character pipelines don't work that way. You can't start rescripting or animating new cut-scenes before you have the new rigged model. You can't rig the model till have the model. You can't build the model till have the concept art. You can't record the VO for the cut scenes and in-game play till have the script written. You have to then find the actress who will record the voice, and another actress to record the mocap.

All of this takes time. Time from someone already working late into the day/night and possibly on weekends. Because they're working on OTHER parts of the game. Because the game isn't done just because you saw a trailer at E3. Chances are the trailer wasn't done by ANYONE on the team and likely was outsourced out to a cinematics house.

The game date was likely set a year or more in advance by people setting up the contracts I mentioned above, so you may as well consider that date damn near sacred. That means to get the new character in, something had to give...or rather several somethings. Because unlike many other things in life, game development really can be zero-sum. To gain X cost of features, you have to give up X. But some execs don't think that way - they want X and don't want to give up ****. So they'll grind your team into the dirt to get there (if they're not all that worried about tech debt piling up or in keeping the team together after shipping). Other execs get it - at least to a point. They might ask for lower quality on this or that or may only "suggest" that you extend your team's hours.

However, most teams on AAA don't want to give up quality for anything. Why? Because that means lower Metacritic scores for one thing...a thing that most studio bonuses are inextricably intertwined with. Busted your *** for 2 years on a project and it's expected to bring in a 90 Metacritic so you can get your 20% IC bonus? Wait, you only got an 88% because some ******* kid who gets paid in pagecounts and free games decided you did a half-assed job on the animations for the female character compared to the male and the side-quests weren't involved enough (because your team threw those out to work on the female characters)...no bonus for you, sucker!

This whole subject makes my stomach turn to ****. I know a LOT of people on those teams. Good people. They WANT to bring in more features - female characters definitely is part of that. They hate being called sexist. They hate upper management telling them estimates for their work that they KNOW is wrong ("only a couple of days worth of animations" might as well read "**** you every other animator who can't do as well as I think I can as fast as I can on new tech").

I know very few devs who are true asshats (yeah, lots of brilliant jerks, a handful of outright *******s, most are just great people who do this for love, not money - they could stop making games and go build tax software tomorrow and double their paychecks in some cases). It's personal when I see people I know and respect called liars or sexist.

I hope the post helped you see a bit into our lives as much as it helped me to get some of this off my chest.


I'll just leave this here, for those of you who think you have the credentials to judge how much time/resources it would take and how easy it would be to add a female playable character into AC Unity. Source is a game dev from reddit who wrote on this matter a few weeks back.

goob0t
06-22-2014, 02:42 AM
Come on Aveline wasnt only a DLC...


Also people seem to have satrted using this forum for post what seems liek blog posts. theres plenty of topics already made where you an have your say about the famels in AC topic.

Sorry for being a little off topic but who is the Assassin in between Edward and Adewale in you sig?

Jexx21
06-22-2014, 02:58 AM
Nikolai Orelov, Russian Assassin during the Russian Revolution, featured in Assassin's Creed: Subject 4 (The Fall and The Chain)

Sesheenku
06-22-2014, 03:04 AM
Why couldn't the females have just wore Arno's clothes? His robes look almost unisex, they'd fit more slender builds. And they don't all necessarily need to have super-model bodies.

Cause... you can't fit a male clothing model on a female model..

Game don't work like that. You HAVE to remake the clothing model to fit the form of a female character.

Do you think if I put it on a female the shoulder will just snap to hers for example? Lol no. The robe would stay the exact same shape as it is on Arno or contort horridly and make a mess of the model.

It HAS to be reshaped. There's no way around it.


It's a set of animations not some massive undertaking. I'm not saying it's something they could bang out in an hour but Ubisoft aren't some indie studio. If they'd really wanted female avatars I'm sure they could've found the resources somewhere in the TEN studios who worked on this game over the 3 or so years they worked on it.

Please if you don't know jack about game development don't try to comment on it okay?

You're absolutely wrong, 1000% wrong.

As I said before.

You MUST MUST MUST reshape EVERY SINGLE hood, boot, robe, gauntlet, belt, and EVERY other customizable piece of clothing RETXTURE IT AND ADD A NEW TEXTURE MAP FOR IT.

You MUST add bones to generic models too allow weapons to be placed on the back or the hip or wherever.

Do you realize how much work that is? Clearly you don't.

goob0t
06-22-2014, 03:06 AM
Nikolai Orelov, Russian Assassin during the Russian Revolution, featured in Assassin's Creed: Subject 4 (The Fall and The Chain)

Thanks i looked it up and found that they are comic books, though where did a video game model of him come from?

Jexx21
06-22-2014, 04:27 AM
not a video game model, just a rendered model

Locopells
06-22-2014, 09:34 AM
Protagonist gender talk here please.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/891661-Would-you-buy-and-play-an-Assassin-s-Creed-game-with-a-female-protagonist