PDA

View Full Version : FW190 vs. P-51



JRH147
01-12-2004, 11:32 AM
Since these are about the only two planes anyone flies online anymore (at least it seems that way to me) - how do these two compare as far as angles/energy is concerned?

Are they both similar in terms of performance or is it that the 190 is more of an energy fighter and the 51 is more of an angles (although it climbs like a rocket!)

Thanks for your help!

JRH147
01-12-2004, 11:32 AM
Since these are about the only two planes anyone flies online anymore (at least it seems that way to me) - how do these two compare as far as angles/energy is concerned?

Are they both similar in terms of performance or is it that the 190 is more of an energy fighter and the 51 is more of an angles (although it climbs like a rocket!)

Thanks for your help!

TX-Zen
01-12-2004, 11:34 AM
My general view is that the D9 is superior to the mustang and the mustang is superior to the A series.

TX-Zen
Black 6
TX-Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM Only)
TX-OC3 Server 209.163.147.69:21000
http://www.txsquadron.com/library/20031218144359_Zensig2.jpg (http://www.txsquadron.com)

carguy_
01-12-2004, 11:39 AM
P51 is no match for FW190.Even A8 can take the challenge.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

robban75
01-12-2004, 11:40 AM
The only advantage the P-51 has against the 190D is that it is not as heavy in the nose, and it's a superior turner at all speeds. It's also alot more stable. But when it comes to speed and climb, it falls behind the D-9, especially at low altitudes.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

TheGozr
01-12-2004, 11:44 AM
Take a small lighter plane on Dog fight vs P51 or D9 and force them to flight low altitudes and a lots of zigzags and loop and none will get you..
They are scare of heavy turn under 50 m.

-GOZR

TX-Zen
01-12-2004, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
The only advantage the P-51 has against the 190D is that it is not as heavy in the nose, and it's a superior turner at all speeds. It's also alot more stable. But when it comes to speed and climb, it falls behind the D-9, especially at low altitudes.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure about the mustang being a superior turner at all speeds...thats somewhat of a grey area for me, seems the D9 can out turn the mustang under some conditions.

(seat of the pants observation here)

S!!

TX-Zen
Black 6
TX-Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM Only)
TX-OC3 Server 209.163.147.69:21000
http://www.txsquadron.com/library/20031218144359_Zensig2.jpg (http://www.txsquadron.com)

ZG77_Nagual
01-12-2004, 11:55 AM
toss-up - not all that crazy about the mustang - I'd rather fly a p39. view is about the only thing it has over the 190

VW-IceFire
01-12-2004, 01:14 PM
The P-51 we have is a retrofitted D-5. There should be a minor difference with the P-51D-20 that we'll be getting later on. The biggest thing no doubt being the gyro sight which should make aim and lead calculating easier in the P-51. I'd say the P-51 and the D9 are excellent opponents to each other...yes the late model Antons are competitive but I feel very confident against them in a P-51 while I feel a real sense of challenge against the D9. And vice versa.

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spit-sig.jpg

Eagle_361st
01-12-2004, 01:22 PM
It really depends on the pilots, the Dora and Mustang are pretty close in performace, then it boils down to the pilot and who has the "E" or altitude advantage. I find the Antons very easy to target and I find the well flown Dora a good challenge. This does not mean all Pony pilots will have the same experience, but for me and the way I fly it. I would definately say Zen and Icefire are some of the best Dora pilots I have seen.

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1003.jpg

DONB3397
01-12-2004, 03:58 PM
Don't have stats, but I've read specific comparisons saying that only the Dora and Ta-152H could challenge the P-51D at high altitude (assuming equal pilot competence); not the A's.

In FB, however, the A-8 and 9 seem to have higher roll rates and often best the Mustang in low level dogfights.

Best pilot wins. So pick one and fly it a lot.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/3fe77b7e_1812a/bc/Images/Sig---1.jpg?BC3Vi__AWSamLZQo

Bull_dog_
01-12-2004, 06:34 PM
I fly the mustang quite a bit and occasionally fly the Fw....not good in that plane unfortunately. I find Dora's to be a challenge and A's I can take down when I have the advantage...however I can't outrun either one which doesn't seem historically correct however it is the reality of FB so I deal with it.

Probably the most disadvantageous thing about going against a fw is both the lack of toughness of a p-51 preventing head ons (avoiding them if at all possible) and the lack of effective weapons against the Fw. I don't know if it is the .50's in the mustang or the damage model of the fw (I tend to believe the latter)...but more often than not I do not get a kill or even a significant reduction in fw performance with a good burst. Really difficult if you wind up on the Fw's six...I've run out of ammo picking away while watching chunk after chunk fly off only to have to turn around and hope they don't chase you down. Likewise, I've been in Fw's and if I jink around and snap roll without too much deflection, I often run the adversary out of ammo before he can shoot me down.

I've had a few occasions where I bounce Fw's hit them and pulled only to have them hanging on their prop to blast me from over a half a km away with those dratted 30mm cannons. Last night, on line, a fellow took me out at .75 Km's that way after I thought I was comfortably out of range....silly me lol.

I find the P-47 more of a killing machine when conditions favor me...I can do head on's and as a stable gun platform...that same burst seems to do much more damage.

My normal mode is to gain altitude above the enemy and only engage with an e advantage...if there is a mix of Fw's and 109's I may squirt the fw's to drive them to the deck but concentrate on the 109's and get kills so my team gets a numerical advantage. In this game, it seems that numbers mean more than anything. If I'm truly one on one with a Fw, I will engage as long as I can avoid that first head on....I will not try to run from one unless I have buddies near by as they are faster at medium and low altitude. I think the stang has the advantage at high altitude, but it is close enough that it can be hard to avoid those head on passing shots....never do that in a mustang vs. Fw...it can only be neutral or bad...never good. I feel confident that I can turn with or even out turn an Fw...but you got to watch that scissors thing...good pilots will be on your six before you know it.

Snoop_Baron
01-12-2004, 07:26 PM
A well flown P-51 can handle any of the FW and vice versa. In the end I believe they are pretty evenly matched. With pilot skill, e-advantage, and team tactics being the true decision maker in a fight. Against the D9 it almost feels like P-51 vs. P-51.

s!
Snoop

kyrule2
01-12-2004, 07:59 PM
What Snoop_Baron just said, especially concerning team tactics.

Also, my personal preference is still the A-9. It is almost just as fast as Dora and climbs fairly well. It's energy retention is inferior but it's firepower is unmatched making bounces and head-ons fatal for your opponent nearly every time. In the Anton you must be more aggresive in getting an advantage in altitude/energy. You also have to be even more gentle on the stick and more disciplined. I piss alot of people off I'm sure because if I don't hold the advantage or even if its on equal terms I will often run away and find friendlies or seek advantage when pursuer loses sight or breaks away (I'm patient). The 190A is not the best 1 vs. 1 plane and if there is a real lack of team-work then I'll go Dora as it is better in 1 vs. 1 engagements. I look for the furballs where the 190A really shines, using hit & run tactics and my speed/firepower advantage to best effect. Zooming in and out often throws opponents into chaos and makes things easier for the 109's mixing it up, as well as for myself.

Sometimes I like to think of the 109's as the hand that holds the nail, and I bring down the hammer. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Overall I think the P-51 and the Dora are well matched, with a slight edge to the Dora. Still, the pilot will make the difference. I am starting to fly the Dora more often and it's performance is stunning, it's just that the hit I take in firepower doesn't seem worth it for the way I fly. I'll just have to practice more in the Dora I guess, things could be worse. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors" by Nicolas Trudgian

SkyChimp
01-12-2004, 08:05 PM
I play off-line and have not problem against any Fw-190, A or D.

Regards,
SkyChimp
http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/skychimp.jpg

kyrule2
01-12-2004, 08:27 PM
Unfortunately SkyChimp the 190 and P-51 AI's are very weak. Neither is a turn & burn aircraft so the AI does poorly with them even on Ace level. Often times they look as if they are asleep or have given up. I find the two toughest AI's to be the Yak-3 and P-39, their planes seem to perform ridiculous maneuvers with no energy bleed whatsoever. Any time you get near them they just turn tight as hell using their "rear plane detecting radar." Even the La's AI seems to level out and present themselves as easy targets alot of the time.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors" by Nicolas Trudgian

LeadSpitter_
01-13-2004, 05:09 AM
190 A5 and d are superior without a doubt in my opinion, I prefer the p47 over the p51 becuase the 51 is the weakest plane in the game even weaker then the zero, and the oilsplash covers the gunsite completely but your engine usually dies from 1 hit to any part of the plane

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
VIEW MY PAINTSCHEMES HERE (http://www.il2skins.com/?planeidfilter=all&planefamilyfilter=all&screenshotfilter=allskins&countryidfilter=all&authoridfilter=%3ALeadspitter%3A&historicalidfilter=all&Submit=+++Apply+filters++&action=list&ts=1072257400)

Willy_Wombat
01-13-2004, 07:01 AM
"even weaker then the zero"

"even weaker THAN THAN THAN the zero"

WW

Shazta
01-13-2004, 08:20 AM
To bad the KI87 isn't in this game...it would smoke both of these planes... &lt;S&gt;

FW190fan
01-13-2004, 09:12 AM
I'm with Kyrule, I think I've settled on the A-9. It's the biggest bully in the game, with the exception of the Me262 of course.

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

Aaron_GT
01-13-2004, 10:36 AM
"In FB, however, the A-8 and 9 seem to have higher roll rates and often best the Mustang in low level dogfights."

The 190A should roll better than the Mustang
up to around 320-350 mph, so at engagement
speeds seen online, the 190A is probably
a faster roller.

In real life the 190A should also pack
a bigger punch, especially the A8 and later
with 13mm nose guns. The D9 is going to
be fairly close in armament power to the
Mustang.

I'm surprised about the suggestion about
finding the P47 a better killing machine,
as most say it lacks punch compared to, say,
the P40.

You ought to give online a try, SkyChimp -
it would be nice to see you there - I've
flown on the same servers as about half
a dozen regulars here now. The more the
merrier.

Abbuzze
01-13-2004, 11:39 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
190 A5 and d are superior without a doubt in my opinion, I prefer the p47 over the p51 becuase the 51 is the weakest plane in the game even weaker then the zero, and the oilsplash covers the gunsite completely but your engine usually dies from 1 hit to any part of the plane
&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;[/URL]

Hmm maybe you got a crippeld P51 from the factory...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I use it with succsess- 0.50 are deadly, it´s a fast plane- In FB it "feels" real depending to the altitude Mustang and Dora are very similar in Performance...

Oil at the windscreen... you never sat in a 109? one hit anywhere into the canopy and you got a bullethole right in the crosshair! Thats ...() !!!
compared to a 109 it is sturdy, even with a smoking engine you can fly a long time!

JG53 PikAs Abbuzze
I./Gruppe

http://www.jg53-pikas.de/

http://mitglied.lycos.de/p123/Ani_pikasbanner_langsam.gif

[This message was edited by Abbuzze on Tue January 13 2004 at 11:10 AM.]

crazyivan1970
01-13-2004, 11:44 AM
I think Mustang will own Any A models of 190 except A5, but 190D .. it`s more pilot then a plane situation.

V!
Regards,

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

TheGozr
01-13-2004, 12:46 PM
The trick to fly those FW's is to smooth the graph of the joystick setup ingame not too agressif than you'll see you will actually enjoy the plane..

-GOZR
"TheMotorheads" All for One and One for All (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/)