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View Full Version : Is Ubisoft's "ghost" mechanic enough to make stealth a challenge?



ArabianFrost
06-13-2014, 07:55 PM
Just like the title says. So far, we haven't really seen the AI in action, but the only new advertised addition is this "ghost" mechanic whereby the AI goes to your last known location and looks there in case of detection. Is that enough? At this point, I'd really want to know how can the AI be better anyway, cause that mechanic seems to cure some of the obliviousness past AI had. Can tge experts here give some insight?

Shahkulu101
06-13-2014, 08:00 PM
I really wish they'd just investigate your last known location anyway, we don't need an ugly immersion breaking silhouette telling us literally where we just were!

I also hope there's not an annoying tutorial mission for it.

Hans684
06-13-2014, 08:05 PM
Actually the "ghost" mechanic is more usefull than most think. Let's say you are in a position where you have to be detected but you have explored the place to know where to run. It helps planning, if there is too much guards to take down with stealth and combat I can(after having explored) take down some with combat(that started with a stealth kill making me detected) to lure the guards away or go past them since they are going to go to my last known position. Stealth, Combat and Navigation will overlap each other without problem because of the last known position. An Assassins work at it's best.

Jexx21
06-13-2014, 08:05 PM
Watch Dogs does the last known location without the silhouette.

And it sounds like this makes Stealth easier because no longer will enemies know each turn you take even if they can't see you taking it.

Wolfmeister1010
06-13-2014, 08:22 PM
I think we will all get used to it. Doesn't really bother me. Immersion is already broken with the weird UI. I will learn to live with it. Good gameplay makes up for it.

SixKeys
06-13-2014, 08:24 PM
I'm hoping a lot of the HUD stuff in the demos are just for demo purposes. The ghost silhouette is ugly and I hate how big the text pop-ups and menus are. They should be as small and unobtrusive as possible.

pirate1802
06-13-2014, 08:25 PM
Considering that we already have plenty of immersion-breaking animus stuff going on (the blending glint, for example) it doesn't bother me that much..

HercRembrandt
06-13-2014, 08:27 PM
Well, I haven't seen any footage of this, but if it is anything like the "last known location" silhouette in Splinter Cell (that they added in Conviction a few years ago), it's not there to make stealth any more of a "challenge". It's a tool that makes stealth more manageable, by allowing you to draw the enemies' attention to the point at which they detect you. And then go around, etc.

Jexx21
06-13-2014, 08:29 PM
I'm hoping a lot of the HUD stuff in the demos are just for demo purposes. The ghost silhouette is ugly and I hate how big the text pop-ups and menus are. They should be as small and unobtrusive as possible.
wait where did you see the menus and stuff

links to videos

Cjail
06-13-2014, 08:43 PM
If they allow us to customize the HUD then hopefully we will able to tun the silhouette off.

dxsxhxcx
06-13-2014, 08:51 PM
it SCREAMS to you when you're detected!

Ureh
06-13-2014, 09:36 PM
Just like the title says. So far, we haven't really seen the AI in action, but the only new advertised addition is this "ghost" mechanic whereby the AI goes to your last known location and looks there in case of detection. Is that enough? At this point, I'd really want to know how can the AI be better anyway, cause that mechanic seems to cure some of the obliviousness past AI had. Can tge experts here give some insight?

That's sounds very similar to what we already have right? :p

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 09:49 PM
I really wish they'd just investigate your last known location anyway, we don't need an ugly immersion breaking silhouette telling us literally where we just were!

I also hope there's not an annoying tutorial mission for it.

I disagree, in AC3 it was a complete ****ing ***** to hide from guards, it was almost impossible to slip away and hide in time.

This is great because you KNOW for a fact where they'll be searching and that you've broken the line of sight and can hide.

ArabianFrost
06-13-2014, 10:10 PM
Watch Dogs does the last known location without the silhouette.

And it sounds like this makes Stealth easier because no longer will enemies know each turn you take even if they can't see you taking it.

Seriously? I don't know, it seems to depend on line of sight, so I'm assuming re-entering the enemy's line of sight will reintroduce a new ghost path.

LoyalACFan
06-13-2014, 10:19 PM
TBH I don't think the ghost image thing will be an issue for me, because I tend to run from guards rather than hide from them. To me, it's a lot more thrilling to pull off a daring rooftop escape rather than ducking onto a bench and waiting for a timer to run down until they call of the search. I can imagine the ghost thing spawning behind me and being visible for all of one second before I leave it in the dust.

GunnarGunderson
06-13-2014, 10:41 PM
Hopefully it doesn't lead to situations where you'll run around a corner and then your pursuers will run around the corner, instantly stop, and stand bewildered trying to figure out where you went before calling off the chase, all while you watch from a hiding spot

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 10:44 PM
Hopefully it doesn't lead to situations where you'll run around a corner and then your pursuers will run around the corner, instantly stop, and stand bewildered trying to figure out where you went before calling off the chase, all while you watch from a hiding spot

I found that significantly difficult to pull off in the last AC's they seem to chase you quite endlessly.

Kirokill
06-13-2014, 10:48 PM
I didn't really understand the mechanic.
Does it mean that if the guards spot you, and turn half way red (level of investigating) and then you break line of sight, then a ghost of you will show up there standing like a mark for where they'll investigate?

adventurewomen
06-13-2014, 10:49 PM
It seems an interesting concept I'd like to see it work when I get a chance to play it.. I love stealth it's my favourite ways to play AC games.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 11:01 PM
I didn't really understand the mechanic.
Does it mean that if the guards spot you, and turn half way red (level of investigating) and then you break line of sight, then a ghost of you will show up there standing like a mark for where they'll investigate?

Precisely.

Evenesque
06-13-2014, 11:20 PM
It's called Last Known Position, or LKP if you're a developer in a press event. Ubisoft started it with Splinter Cell Conviction and it makes Stealth more cerebral. It doesn't really make it easier or harder, it just illustrates something you already know but could forget while you flank. It basically just functions as an awareness state indicator, in that if you move away from it and it all of a sudden shows up around you again, it lets you know the enemy saw you. It makes perfect sense to me, plus it doesn't really break immersion for me because I'm constantly moving away from it. I think it's a great feature, silhouette or not.

Honestly, I'm just glad the game has cover now. AC has needed a cover system like Splinter cell has for a long time. Awkwardly sprinting between bushes in front of guards gets more and more unimpressive.

HercRembrandt
06-13-2014, 11:23 PM
Honestly, I'm just glad the game has cover now. AC has needed a cover system like Splinter cell has for a long time. Awkwardly sprinting between bushes in front of guards gets more and more unimpressive.

True dat.

Dome500
06-14-2014, 05:49 PM
It's called Last Known Position, or LKP if you're a developer in a press event. Ubisoft started it with Splinter Cell Conviction and it makes Stealth more cerebral. It doesn't really make it easier or harder, it just illustrates something you already know but could forget while you flank. It basically just functions as an awareness state indicator, in that if you move away from it and it all of a sudden shows up around you again, it lets you know the enemy saw you. It makes perfect sense to me, plus it doesn't really break immersion for me because I'm constantly moving away from it. I think it's a great feature, silhouette or not.

Honestly, I'm just glad the game has cover now. AC has needed a cover system like Splinter cell has for a long time. Awkwardly sprinting between bushes in front of guards gets more and more unimpressive.

Absolutely agreed.

Honestly, Assassin Creed always tried to be a Stealth Game, tried to show itself as a Stealth Game, but it never really was.
All it had was light Stealth elements and a heavy focus on easy combat.

The development of the Stealth elements only started recently in AC4, after AC3 completely screwed that part up.
With the new combat system, the crouch and the cover system we will finally be able to play the game the way it was meant to be played since AC1-
We can be a blade in the Crowd (Social Stealth), we can sneak around (Line of Sight (LoS) Stealth) and we can go into combat (tactical combat, since the 1-button-kill counter is finally out).

I think it will give us a way better feeling of how an Assassin is, who he is. The shadow, the needle in the haystack, the invisible enemy. He sneaks, strikes openly and disappears.
A myth, a legend.

The Assassins dispel the illusion while the Templars use it to control. Remember that? (AC1)
The Assassins are big showmasters, actors so to speak. They disappear when needed and use fear to dispel the illusions and schemes created by Templars.
Remain anonymous until the Assassination, strike openly, disappear.

I think the LKP and the other new Stealth mechanics will help to give you more of that feeling.
The LKP also is useful for flanking enemies and to see where enemies saw you last and in which area they will probably search, which means that enemies will FINALLY not follow you on every turn although they didn't see you turning there as if they had a GPS tracker on you.

Sorry if I was taken away a little, I just think that this is a huge step Unity made, and I am really excited to see more of it and see all the changes in action.

Assassins Creed was successful a long time in pretending to be a Stealth game or at least to have the option for stealth, it was successful in pretending to provide freedom to you, but now it finally takes the step and GIVES you freedom and it GIVES you a REAL Stealth system and mechanics.

I am excited and interested.