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View Full Version : The Love for the Ezio Saga



RinoTheBouncer
06-11-2014, 12:03 PM
I’ve always wanted to shed some light on this subject for sometime and it’s more of a critique on the evolution of the AC franchise than merely sharing my love for the Ezio saga.

I’ve encountered so many Assassin’s Creed fans who criticized those of us who love the Ezio saga more than any other game and they make it sound like some sort of an obsession or a blind following, by saying “Yeah, for sure you didn’t like ACIV, because Godzio isn’t part of it”, as if it’s a shame to actually like Ezio’s games. Well here’s what I have to say about it. Just answer those questions and it’ll make sense: are we relatives or friends with the developers of the Ezio saga? am I dating the creative director? am I being paid by the team who made those games? Did we gain any personal benefit for loving these games? the answer is no, for all those questions.

So there’s no bias, there is no obsession, there’s just a total admiration to where the story, the gameplay and to where the franchise as a whole was going. I know a lot of you have loathed AC:Revelations for some reason, but I personally consider ACII and AC:R to tie on the No.1 rank of the best AC games. I loved each second of those games and Brotherhood as well. When I’m asked to choose which one is my favorite AC game, I can point out and leave out some games, easily but with Ezio’s saga, I personally don’t know which one to choose unless the choice was “All 3 games”. The likable character, the mix between funny and serious, dark and light, action and drama was totally beautiful and very immersive.

I feel like at the times of the Ezio saga and even ACI, AC games stories really did matter, the Creed really did matter, the modern day and historical stories were walking hand in hand and there was a progress with each new game. There was a noticeable evolution and each game was promoted as a story of the Assassin and the Creed as well as a new setting for historical tourism. However, since ACIII was announced and I feel like the whole franchise started promoting itself by it’s setting and new mechanics. ACIII was promoted as an explorer of the Frontier jungles and endless plains and the introduction of Naval and hunting, ACIV was promoted as a Pirates game, a naval game. And while ACIII had a really good historical and modern day story and a significant expansion to modern day missions -which I personally loved-, ACIV did not promote the story and there wasn’t any story to begin with. There was so much potential for many connections to P.O.E.s and underwater locations but all the open waters were just made to make the world bigger and add more copy/paste side-missions.

Now with AC Unity, which I’m personally loving for it’s breathtaking graphics that are truly next gen looking, and the massive number of NPCs, given that they won’t downgrade it with the final product, it is still being promoted as the next gen AC that has Co-op. Nothing is revealed about the story so far other than WATCH_DOGS with a stepdad rather than a niece being the victim. A larger map is being boasted about but still nothing regarding the story.

I’m not here to criticize AC:Unity and I’m personally excited to see what it’s made of but I’m only reviewing the evolution of the series as a whole and explaining why Ezio’s saga remains No.1 for many fans and those fans aren’t just delusional kids who liked the fact that there was a sex scene in the ACII and AC:B, but rather people who invested enough time understanding the puzzles, the glyphs, the rifts, the story as a whole and found something special in it rather than just the fancy new mechanics and graphics.

I personally believe that the formula that made ACII happen is something Ubisoft will never be able to repeat. It was a mixture, original at the time and very entertaining and unless they revert back to the good story-telling and connectivity, either by a reboot or some alternate possibility timeline for the games, they will always base their success on mainstream settings, fancy new weapons and multiplayer, which is now promoting as a main part of the story campaign as well.

It is quite evident that when they made Altair, they made him dark, mysterious, powerful, light, a true blade in the crowd, the gained a lot of success but then, when they were still innovative, they created a different type of character who is Ezio, he was even more admired by the public and when they brought a new one with ACIII, the response was mixed. I personally loved Connor but many did not. So since that day, they tried replicating Ezio and they could not get close to how well-received and inspirational he was. Edward is my second favorite Assassin after Ezio but it was obvious that they wanted to make him Ezio II and that didn’t work very well and now Arno also gives me that vibe, even though not much has been revealed about him.

So my point is that Ubisoft is clearly trying hard to repeat the Ezio saga without letting you notice that and at the same time, they’re putting way too much mechanisms into the new games that the story, the Assassins and their Creed as well as the Templar order are all taking the backseat and becoming more of a context than an actual evolving story like a T.V. series which is what it was back with Ezio’s saga and even ACI and ACIII. The connectivity is fading away, gradually and noticeably and I personally feel that the games became way too crowded with mechanics that they need to be reset to something perhaps from ancient times where we have a light assassin with a simple dagger and rely mostly on skill than the variety of weapons, recruits and mechanics.

Knowing fans of the various forms of art, and since video gaming is an art, just like films, books, music, paintings..etc. I don’t see how the reaction would be so different from their respective fans. Many singers create a song that because an international hit and everybody goes so crazy about it, for some reason and then when the artist creates something different, they don’t embrace it like they did and when they try to replicate the past success, it doesn’t work either. Sometimes it’s the fans being too hard to let go or too hard to convince with something new and sometimes it’s just the lack of originality.

Ubisoft is still missing the point that once upon a time, when AC games were so iconic and unforgettable, much more than the last 3 entries was because the games had game play AND a story and the story was well written and connected and the cliffhangers gave an excuse for the franchise to become annualized, not to mention how modern day and historical settings were going hand in hand and both stories matters. I’m not saying ACIII, ACIV and AC:U did not/will not sell well but I’m saying that regarding lasting appeal and being memorable and iconic, the last iconic AC based on a consensus from fans was AC2 and ACB. Many loved ACIII and AC:R, I adore both of them but they still received mixed reviews, regardless of sales.

Feel free to discuss...

CLARIFICATION: I adore every single Assassin so far. Ezio just happened to by my No.1 so don’t take what I wrote above as a way to show that Connor sucks or Edward sucks or whatever nor to start a fan wars thread instead of a discussion about the evolution of the games. I love them all. My least favorite is Aveline, though and that’s probably due to her role not being so big on a major console.

LoyalACFan
06-11-2014, 12:10 PM
AC2 was a success because it had a likeable lead and a breathtakingly immersive world. End of. Mechanically, the game was objectively poorer than the first one. The sequels capitalized on that likeable lead and gave us more of what we liked before. If Arno is an interesting character with a cohesive story, his "it" factor combined with a gorgeous locale will shoot Unity to the heights AC2 reached, no problem, and steer the AC brand back to its golden age of popularity.

And this is coming from someone who still thinks AC2 is the best AC.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing and I'll always love AC2, but I have no doubt Unity will be superior IF the final experience is anything like what they're showing. The cliffhangers you mention were intriguing for a while, but they got stale and ultimately led to disappointment, didn't they? It's possible to have a strong narrative without making a bunch of (ultimately broken) promises and stringing us along for years on end.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 12:41 PM
Ok I like Ezio.. Hes Not my Favourite Assassin (Favourite is Connor) but i still like him..

But what i feel like doing to Ezio's fans sometimes..


http://i35.tinypic.com/52dyqr.jpg

RinoTheBouncer
06-11-2014, 12:47 PM
ultimately led to disappointment, didn't they?

The indeed led to a disappointment but the solution to that shouldn’t have been the removal of cliffhangers and modern day, but rather fixing that to be entertaining rather than disappointing. It’s like someone who has a headache don’t just cut off their heads. ACI to AC:R cliffhangers weren’t really disappointing. The problem started with ACIII.


But what i feel like doing to Ezio's fans sometimes..


http://i35.tinypic.com/52dyqr.jpg

Well that’s what this thread is all about and I guess the feeling is mutual :P

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 12:51 PM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/e011d1496926b941c668a8bf6d3fffb1/tumblr_mvkt2j3CWi1r6tmsdo1_500.png

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 12:56 PM
AC2 was a success because it had a likeable lead and a breathtakingly immersive world. End of. Mechanically, the game was objectively poorer than the first one. The sequels capitalized on that likeable lead and gave us more of what we liked before. If Arno is an interesting character with a cohesive story, his "it" factor combined with a gorgeous locale will shoot Unity to the heights AC2 reached, no problem, and steer the AC brand back to its golden age of popularity.

And this is coming from someone who still thinks AC2 is the best AC.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing and I'll always love AC2, but I have no doubt Unity will be superior IF the final experience is anything like what they're showing. The cliffhangers you mention were intriguing for a while, but they got stale and ultimately led to disappointment, didn't they? It's possible to have a strong narrative without making a bunch of (ultimately broken) promises and stringing us along for years on end.I agree on everything, except for the mechanics part. AC2 basically improved over every facet of AC1, the only thing AC2 took a step back in was moral ambiguity.

I also have no doubt that ACU can be better, the one thing it has to have is great a story and great characters, because by the looks if things gameplay will surpass everything AC's ever put out before.

Also Connor fans suck lolololol

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 12:59 PM
I agree on everything, except for the mechanics part. AC2 basically improved over every facet of AC1, the only thing AC2 took a step back in was moral ambiguity.

I also have no doubt that ACU can be better, the one thing it has to have is great a story and great characters, because by the looks if things gameplay will surpass everything AC's ever put out before.

Also Connor fans suck lolololol


What did you say??? Trust the bloody Rooster...

http://media.giphy.com/media/eVKQLy5kj0jjG/giphy.gif

GunnerGalactico
06-11-2014, 01:00 PM
AC2 was a success because it had a likeable lead and a breathtakingly immersive world. End of. Mechanically, the game was objectively poorer than the first one. The sequels capitalized on that likeable lead and gave us more of what we liked before. If Arno is an interesting character with a cohesive story, his "it" factor combined with a gorgeous locale will shoot Unity to the heights AC2 reached, no problem, and steer the AC brand back to its golden age of popularity.

And this is coming from someone who still thinks AC2 is the best AC.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing and I'll always love AC2, but I have no doubt Unity will be superior IF the final experience is anything like what they're showing. The cliffhangers you mention were intriguing for a while, but they got stale and ultimately led to disappointment, didn't they? It's possible to have a strong narrative without making a bunch of (ultimately broken) promises and stringing us along for years on end.

I agree with this.

Not really in the mood to type out a lengthy post, so I'm just going to get straight to the point. AC2 was a different and unique experience for me. It hit all the right notes for me, it was one of those games that pulled me in right from the start. It had:

- A likeable and fun protagonist and a good cast of characters
- Beautiful and picturesque cities
- A fairly gripping and entertaining plot
- A lot of content and side quests

I really enjoyed AC2 from start to finish. And it is my most favourite AC game to date.


I personally believe that the formula that made ACII happen is something Ubisoft will never be able to repeat.

I also agree. It is difficult to replicate the same feeling that players got with that game. It's almost 5 years since AC2 was released and the nostalgia is still there for me. In my opinion, that was the game that got people hooked into the AC series and some people played it before AC1. I know a lot of people are saying that Arno is Ezio no.3, but I disagree. After seeing the intro video, it states that Arno is brash and charismatic. My take on that is, he has the personality traits of Ezio and Connor combined, that will be interesting to see in my opinion.


Also Connor fans suck lolololol

You should not have said that :mad:

It's fine if you don't like the character, everybody is entitled to their opinion. But you picked on the fans and that's a totally different story.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 01:05 PM
Okay I must be a special breed of AC fan because when I finished AC2 I hated Ezio and wished they stuck with Altair. I just hated his Charismatic character and game after game he just never seemed to mature up until the end of Revelations.. Ubisoft knew the fans loved his character so they made him the same for 3 games i just never felt any real growth.. But with Connor there was so much growth and his character was so much more realistic to me.

Farlander1991
06-11-2014, 01:07 PM
The indeed led to a disappointment but the solution to that shouldn’t have been the removal of cliffhangers and modern day, but rather fixing that to be entertaining rather than disappointing. It’s like someone who has a headache don’t just cut off their heads. ACI to AC:R cliffhangers weren’t really disappointing. The problem started with ACIII.

See, I think the problem with modern day started with ACII.

ACII didn't move the main modern day plot introduced in ACI forward (that being the Assassins vs. Templar and satellites).
ACII didn't provide any real character development for Desmond.
ACII introduced a second HUGE main storyline in the last moment.

Pretty much ACII did NOTHING with the exception of expanding somewhat on the lore of the world via the glyphs (though personally I think they overdid with connecting history to Assassins/Templars).

Assassin's Creed IV, for example, does a lot more than Assassin's Creed II has ever done.
Assassin's Creed IV neatly introduces new players to the world of Assassins/Templars AND current situation of the modern day state.
Assassin's Creed IV has an actual story arc (that's part of a bigger one), even though it was short, it was still more than ACII.
Assassin's Creed IV has more character development for Desmond than any of the other AC games (with the exception of ACR, probably, where we learn his whole backstory before he was captured).
Assassin's Creed IV has more character development for the main antagonist of the trilogy's modern day than the trilogy itself (that being Warren Vidic, though he really was shafted to the sidelines in ACII), via his interviews with Subject 0 and the whole deal with how the Animus project was developed.
And that's not even the end of the list.

Yes, Assassin's Creed IV doesn't have a main modern day character, and the storytelling method is less traditional, but Assassin's Creed IV has a VERY substantial modern day part that overall is higher quality than rest of AC modern day storytelling. Which is full with sloppily ended subplots, hastingly introduced ones because there has to be something, and whatnot. A big part of the problem is the production realities, and the style of storytelling chosen by ACIV FITS the production realities of AC (annualization doesn't even matter, since annualized ACIV has way more modern day content than non-annualized ACII), which paves way to a lot more qualitative (and most importantly more flexible) storytelling, and even picks the slack that should've been dealt in the pre-ACIV games.

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 01:08 PM
What did you say??? Trust the bloody Rooster...Take that Stevie Jacobs. Connor fans you are next, I am rooster hear my roar, we don't crow.

About Arno being charismatic making him an Ezio clone, ahhh that annoys me so much. Hitler and Obama are charismatic I doubt people think they're similar. Just because our Assassins share similar traits does not make them the same person.

GunnerGalactico
06-11-2014, 01:12 PM
Take that Stevie Jacobs. Connor fans you are next, I am rooster hear my roar, we don't crow.

About Arno being charismatic making him an Ezio clone, ahhh that annoys me so much. Hitler and Obama are charismatic I doubt people think they're similar. Just because our Assassins share similar traits does not make them the same person.

I don't think Arno is an Ezio clone. There are different types of charismatic personalities. People can be charismatic in different ways.

SixKeys
06-11-2014, 01:14 PM
You should not have said that :mad:

It's fine if you don't like the character, everybody is entitled to their opinion. But you picked on the fans and that's a totally different story.

Oh, I see. It's okay for a Connor fan to post a violent gif implying they want to beat up Ezio fans, but it's not okay for Ezio fans to retaliate.

This is why so many people here can't stand the rabid Connor fans. The hypocrisy is appalling.

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 01:16 PM
ACIV's modern story was good, until Juno's floating head but the first person gameplay just made it so much worse then what it could have been.

In terms of modern day gameplay it goes:

AC3
ACB
AC2
AC4
ACR
AC1

In terms of story it goes

ACB
AC1
AC4
ACR
AC2
AC3

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 01:16 PM
Oh, I see. It's okay for a Connor fan to post a violent gif implying they want to beat up Ezio fans, but it's not okay for Ezio fans to retaliate.

This is why so many people here can't stand the rabid Connor fans. The hypocrisy is appalling.

Oh feel free to fire away Ezio fans, You cant stand us and we cant stand you..this will be fun :)

Farlander1991
06-11-2014, 01:18 PM
Oh feel free to fire away Ezio fans, You cant stand us and we cant stand you..this will be fun :)

Only she's not an Ezio fan. :p

rprkjj
06-11-2014, 01:18 PM
Edward is my favorite assassin so far, his story is unique and I find him more likeable to Ezio, whose my second favorite. Edward's flaws are what make him a great character, while I think Ezio is a little bit too good. I also like Connor for his uniqueness, but Altair I didn't really care for until Revelations.

I want a third-person modern day character involved in a grander, deeper and more important story that compliments the historical aspect and still allows it to stay central to the game. I want to learn exciting new things about the metastory every game. I honestly missed that from AC4. In some ways, I agree with you. Ezio's story represented a truly unique experience in gaming, living in the shoes of someone from his birth to his final moment of closure as an old man in the trilogy's finale, which wasn't even able to be matched by AC3.

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 01:20 PM
I don't think Arno is an Ezio clone. There are different types of charismatic personalities. People can be charismatic in different ways.I know, that was literally my whole point.


Oh, I see. It's okay for a Connor fan to post a violent gif implying they want to beat up Ezio fans, but it's not okay for Ezio fans to retaliate.

This is why so many people here can't stand the rabid Connor fans. The hypocrisy is appalling.Indeed, if it wasn't so annoying it'd be funny and the fact that they think they're better because they like Connor, it's rather daft really.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 01:20 PM
Only she's not an Ezio fan. :p

Yes, i used the comment to just let all other ezio fans know. Do you have any Idea how much Ezio fans have made me suffer?? Even outside of these forums?? You have no idea..

GunnerGalactico
06-11-2014, 01:22 PM
Oh, I see. It's okay for a Connor fan to post a violent gif implying they want to beat up Ezio fans, but it's not okay for Ezio fans to retaliate.

This is why so many people here can't stand the rabid Connor fans. The hypocrisy is appalling.


I decided to try this too.


http://i58.tinypic.com/2nk2ucz.jpg

Look who's talking, this is coming from someone who constantly says stuff to annoy Connor fans. A lot people say bad stuff about Connor in the forums, but you don't see me getting all irritated about it. By the way, Ezio is my most favourite assassin, Connor is just my second favourite.

Hypocrisy... gimme a break

rprkjj
06-11-2014, 01:24 PM
ACIV's modern story was good, until Juno's floating head but the first person gameplay just made it so much worse then what it could have been.

In terms of modern day gameplay it goes:

AC3
ACB
AC2
AC4
ACR
AC1

In terms of story it goes

ACB
AC1
AC4
ACR
AC2
AC3

The thing that kills the ACB modern story for me was that I'm pretty sure they just killed off Lucy because Kristen Bell was getting too big for Assassins Creed.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 01:27 PM
Look who's talking, this is coming from someone who constantly says stuff to annoy Connor fans. A lot people say bad stuff about Connor in the forums, but you don't see me getting all irritated about it. By the way, Ezio is my most favourite assassin, Connor is just my second favourite.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CRv0tLqqNk

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 01:28 PM
The thing that kills the ACB modern story for me was that I'm pretty sure they just killed off Lucy because Kristen Bell was getting too big for Assassins Creed.Probably, it was handled pretty good though, that ending kept a whole fanbase in suspense for a year, from ACB to ACR it was easily the most talked about thing on here. It's when AC was at it's mysterious best.

Maybe if they knew of her singing talent they would never have let her go, let it go.

rprkjj
06-11-2014, 01:29 PM
I feel that Connor and Ezio are vastly different enough characters that it's more preference whether you like one over the other than one is objectively better than the other.

rprkjj
06-11-2014, 01:30 PM
Probably, it was handled pretty good though, that ending kept a whole fanbase in suspense for a year, from ACB to ACR it was easily the most talked about thing on here. It's when AC was at it's mysterious best.

Maybe if they knew of her singing talent they would never have let het go, let it go.

I agree with that, it actually surprised the hell out of me. Although something told me it was unlikely we were gonna see Lucy and Desmond as a happy couple anytime soon.

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 01:31 PM
I feel that Connor and Ezio are vastly different enough characters that it's more preference whether you like one over the other than one is objectively better than the other.That would be true, if Ezio wasn't so much better then Connor.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 01:32 PM
I wanted Desmond and Lucy to get together but noooo Desmond was too stupid to make a move and the love interest was only touched upon lightly.. then he stabs her and shaun and rebecca dont even give a **** in ACR and 3 and talk about it like they only knew Lucy for 5 mins.

GunnerGalactico
06-11-2014, 01:33 PM
That would be true if Ezio wasn't so much better then Connor.

Just cool it already.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 01:35 PM
That would be true, if Ezio wasn't so much better then Connor.

Look at the video above.. Ezio is so annoying that Altair even defies time and chucks a rock at him.

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 01:36 PM
Just cool it already.Haha, I'm only messin around man.

rprkjj
06-11-2014, 01:38 PM
Just cool it already.

You have to admit it's true though. I mean I actually feel bad for the Connor fans that couldn't muster up 10 brain cells to realize the obvious superiority of Ezio. :rolleyes:

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 01:38 PM
Look at the video above.. Ezio is so annoying that Altair even defies time and chucks a rock at him.Altair has no say in this, his American accent renders everything he says or does pointless.

Also both Ezio and Al Mualim had better beards then him.

GunnerGalactico
06-11-2014, 01:40 PM
Haha, I'm only messin around man.

Alright I get it :p

I thought Connor was a good character, but not everyone agrees... it's just one of those things you can't help. I just hate when people start ranting.

And apologies by the way, I didn't know Mani60Cent started it.

Shahkulu101
06-11-2014, 01:42 PM
Stopped reading when you said the Ezio trilogy explored the Creed. Revelations did, granted, but AC2 and ACB had absolutely nothing to do with the creed - completely black and white stories with evil, mustache twirling villains. The philosophy and ideas are not explored at all in Brotherhood - just cause they say the Creed doesn't mean it holds significance in the game. AC3 and ACIV relate the Creed to personal journeys; yes even ACIV. It's not just a lame story about Pirates - it explores the concept of a man who blindly follows the 'everything is permitted' tenant and the consequences of doing so. What's beautiful about ACIV is how Edward embraces the Creed totally naturally. He's not thrust in through tragedy and loss, but finds purpose and solace in the Creed's message: "You wear your convictions well." And the ending of ACIV? The most beautiful moment in the series. Oh and guess what all this has nothing to do with? That's right, Pirates!

And yeah, don't for a minute get annoyed when people criticize Ezio's stories and then go on to make the ridiculous and offensive claim that ACIV has no story whatsoever.

rprkjj
06-11-2014, 01:50 PM
Stopped reading when you said the Ezio trilogy explored the Creed. Revelations did, granted, but AC2 and ACB had absolutely nothing to do with the creed - completely black and white stories with evil, mustache twirling villains. The philosophy and ideas are not explored at all in Brotherhood - just cause they say the Creed doesn't mean it holds significance in the game. AC3 and ACIV relate the Creed to personal struggles; yes even ACIV. It's not just a lame story about Pirates - it explores the concept of a man who blindly follows the 'everything is permitted' tenant and the consequences of doing so. What's beautiful about ACIV is how Edward embraces the Creed totally naturally. He's not thrust in through tragedy and loss, but finds purpose and solace in the Creed's message: "You wear your convictions well." And the ending of ACIV? The most beautiful moment in the series. Oh and guess what all this has nothing to do with? That's right, Pirates!

And yeah, don't for a minute get annoyed when people criticize Ezio's stories and then go on to make the ridiculous and offensive claim that ACIV has no story whatsoever.

AC4 easily has the best story in the series, in my opinion. It reflects a lot of different emotions that are all executed well, like defeat when Black Bart betrays Edward, happiness and relief at Edward's voyage home, loss and regret at the memories of your allies sitting at the table. You feel closer than ever to Edward as he spirals down and digs himself deeper into his flawed ways. The ending is satisfying, and I feel the first true happy ending in an AC game.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 01:51 PM
Altair has no say in this, his American accent renders everything he says or does pointless.

Also both Ezio and Al Mualim had better beards then him.

http://oi60.tinypic.com/wwc7bq.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ue84xK6wtNo/T8Pspys2j6I/AAAAAAAAB0I/dcVNgJL4ZBY/s400/stallone-tommygun.gif

KILL BABY EZIO BEFORE IT CORRUPTS MORE LIVES AND LAYS EGGS!!

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 01:52 PM
Stopped reading when you said the Ezio trilogy explored the Creed. Revelations did, granted, but AC2 and ACB had absolutely nothing to do with the creed - completely black and white story with evil, mustache twirling villains. The philosophy and ideas are not explored at all in Brotherhood - just cause they say the Creed doesn't mean it holds significance in the game. AC3 and ACIV relate the Creed to personal struggles; yes even ACIV. It's not just a lame story about Paris - it explores the concept of a man who blindly follows the 'everything so permitted' tenant and the consequences of doing so. What's beautiful about ACIV is how Edward embraces the Creed totally naturally. He's not thrust in through tragedy and loss, but finds purpose and solace in the Creed's message: "You wear your convictions well." And the ending of ACIV? The most beautiful moment in the series. Oh and guess what all this has nothing to do with? That's right, Pirates!

And yeah, don't for a minute get annoyed when people criticize Ezio's stories and then go on to make the ridiculous and offensive claim that ACIV has no story whatsoever.AC2/ACB had nothing to do with the Creed, AC4 had a non-assassin protag etc. does it really matter ?

AC4's story is simple and boring.

AC3's story is complex but boring.

ACR's story is complex and full of twists.

ACB's story is simple, but told well enough.

AC2's is simple but captivating and compelling.

AC1's is simplish but gets complex as it progresses.

Shahkulu101
06-11-2014, 01:56 PM
AC2/ACB had nothing to do with the Creed, AC4 had a non-assassin protag etc. does it really matter ?

AC4's story is simple and boring.

AC3's story is complex but boring.

ACR's story is complex and full of twists.

ACB's story is simple, but told well enough.

AC2's is simple but captivating and compelling.

AC1's is simplish but gets complex as it progresses.

A non-assassin protagonist is not a con, IF the Creed is explored anyway. It's not as binary as that, either.

I thought ACIV had a simple premise that was told exceptionally well. Your opinion is not the be all and end all....

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 01:58 PM
Oh my children.. my children.... Look what Ezio has done to all of you.. All of you must get Connerfied.

MasterAssasin84
06-11-2014, 02:01 PM
IMO Ezio was at his best in Revelations hands down !

LoyalACFan
06-11-2014, 02:02 PM
This thread turned annoying really quick.

Shahkulu101
06-11-2014, 02:04 PM
This thread turned annoying really quick.

'Tis the way of the world

In time every thread about Ezio or Connor turns...

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 02:04 PM
A non-assassin protagonist so not a con, IF the Creed is explored anyway. It's not as binary as that, either.

I thought ACIV had a simple premise that was told exceptionally well. Your opinion is not the be all and end all....I'm not saying it's a con, I'm saying the exact opposite, I'm saying that it doesn't matter if the protag isn't an Assassin or if there's no in depth exploration of the Creed, it doesn't really improve the game or make it worse.

I disagree my opinion is the be all and end all, nah seriously though AC4's story was just too simple, yea there were some nice moments and good lines, but when the whole story is basically a big game of where's wally/waldo it starts to get boring.

Shahkulu101
06-11-2014, 02:06 PM
I'm not saying it's a con, I'm saying the exact opposite, I'm saying that it doesn't matter if the protag isn't an Assassin or if there's no in depth exploration of the Creed, it doesn't really improve the game or make it worse.

I disagree my opinion is the be all and end all, nah seriously though AC4's story was just too simple, yea there were some nice moments and good lines, but when the whole story is basically a big game of where's wally/waldo it starts to get boring.

No AC story engaged me with the Protagonist and characters more, so clearly our opinions clash...

This won't go anywhere.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 02:06 PM
This thread turned annoying really quick.

Yea its because Ezio sucks bawlsak

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 02:06 PM
Oh my children.. my children.... Look what Ezio has done to all of you.. All of you must get Connerfied.I will perform Eziorcist's to all Connor fans, I will get the Connor out of you.

Repent the end is nigh!!!!!

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 02:08 PM
No AC story engaged me with the Protagonist and characters more, so clearly our opinions clash...

This won't go anywhere.Indeed.

LoyalACFan
06-11-2014, 02:11 PM
I will perform Eziorcist's to all Connor fans, I will get the Connor out of you.

Repent the end is nigh!!!!!

... Alright, I'll admit, Eziorcist was clever. Bravo.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 02:12 PM
I will perform Eziorcist's to all Connor fans, I will get the Connor out of you.

Repent the end is nigh!!!!!

I will never repent.. Connor is love Connor is Life

http://oi57.tinypic.com/35me9z9.jpg

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 02:16 PM
... Alright, I'll admit, Eziorcist was clever. Bravo.Cheers.


I will never repent.. Connor is love Connor is Life

http://oi57.tinypic.com/35me9z9.jpgOh god.

SixKeys
06-11-2014, 02:31 PM
Look who's talking, this is coming from someone who constantly says stuff to annoy Connor fans. A lot people say bad stuff about Connor in the forums, but you don't see me getting all irritated about it. By the way, Ezio is my most favourite assassin, Connor is just my second favourite.

Hypocrisy... gimme a break

That gif wasn't anti-Connor, I made it to show how Connor gets crapped on his whole life.

I just don't see why either side has to get violent or hateful. Isn't it possible just to say "I prefer character X and I don't like character Y because this, but I've got no beef with those who like him as long as we treat each other with respect"?

Judging by the history of these forums, it's not. Liking character X somehow makes you better than liking character Y, and those who prefer character Y are dumb and don't understand the nuances of character X. Character X is clearly so much deeper because of his kind and gentle nature, and to prove how much better those who like kind and gentle people are, we're going to post violent and hateful messages for character Y fans!

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 02:35 PM
That gif wasn't anti-Connor, I made it to show how Connor gets crapped on his whole life.

I just don't see why either side has to get violent or hateful. Isn't it possible just to say "I prefer character X and I don't like character Y because this, but I've got no beef with those who like him as long as we treat each other with respect"?

Judging by the history of these forums, it's not. Liking character X somehow makes you better than liking character Y, and those who prefer character Y are dumb and don't understand the nuances of character X. Character X is clearly so much deeper because of his kind and gentle nature, and to prove how much better those who like kind and gentle people are, we're going to post violent and hateful messages for character Y fans!

So many X's and Y's I had a seizure reading that :(

RinoTheBouncer
06-11-2014, 02:35 PM
I wrote this thread as a response to those who attack people just for liking Ezio and considering his games to be the best and the irony is that these people came here and showed their true colors.

I love Ezio and I don’t give a sh*t what anyone thinks of me for that. I’d rather play as the under developed Desmond Miles roaming some storage or Abstergo for clues than be a floating iPad that I’m told to believe to be me.


AC2/ACB had nothing to do with the Creed, AC4 had a non-assassin protag etc. does it really matter ?

AC4's story is simple and boring.

AC3's story is complex but boring.

ACR's story is complex and full of twists.

ACB's story is simple, but told well enough.

AC2's is simple but captivating and compelling.

AC1's is simplish but gets complex as it progresses.

Couldn’t have explained it better myself.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 02:41 PM
I wrote this thread as a response to those who attack people just for liking Ezio and considering his games to be the best and the irony is that these people came here and showed their true colors.

I love Ezio and I don’t give a sh*t what anyone thinks of me for that. I’d rather play as the under developed Desmond Miles roaming some storage or Abstergo for clues than be a floating iPad that I’m told to believe to be me.

Couldn’t have explained it better myself.

He did not say "In my opinion" which is required by law.. he presented his opinion as facts therefore he is a disgusting liar and i feel cheated and i am going to cry..

king-hailz
06-11-2014, 02:46 PM
I dont hate any of the assassins but AC2 to ACR was just a magical time in gaming where they made something so different and unique with everything to make a great story and character... i dont hate connor because he is not like ezio, its just the way they presented the story ruined him. I really like adewale and he wasnt like ezio he was different and i loved his story... its not just about how the characters personality is or what happened to the character but more about how well he is written. Ezio is my favorite character in gaming and always will be. But maybe Arno will beat him. Im always looking for someone to be as good or better than Ezio when an AC game is coming out... However i cant deny the fact that AC Unity really doesnt show off its story as much as its mechanics, but i dont think its fair yet. I mean AC4 and AC3 were revealed much earlier and we knew more about the characters before e3. So lets just wait and be in for a hopeful suprise!

adventurewomen
06-11-2014, 02:47 PM
Yes the most AC fandom put Ezio up on a pedestal and can't move beyond him.. Ezio WAS cool imo for the first 30 minutes of AC2 but after that I just got bored of him..

Connor is just AWESOME he's everything an Assassin should be, Altair is amazing as well.

I love Aveline she's badass <3

Edward was interesting, I did like his pirate ways can't forget his Rum. xD

As for Arno, I'll have to play Unity to make a full opinion on him, but so far he's reminding me of previous Assassins and Haytham.Having said that It would have been more interesting to see if Arno is different to previous characters if he is then thats great.

Connor remains my favourite assassin! <3

LieutenantRex
06-11-2014, 02:51 PM
I like Altair the best, and Ezio and Connor are tied for second. I didn't really feel much for Edward.

One thing about Connor fangirls that I can say without any doubt is their annoying devotion to Connor. Ezio fans admit that Ezio has faults and clichťs, I've seen them do it, but it doesn't take away from him being a great character. Connor fans on the other hand adamantly stay in their position of unyielding and ignorant admiration for the Native halfbreed, giving BS excuses for his lack of depth and mentioning the one or two times he smiles anytime someone says that all he showed was angst and naivetť. They refuse to acknowledge any of his flaws, which is why I detest them so much.

Connor is cool though.

king-hailz
06-11-2014, 02:55 PM
I wrote this thread as a response to those who attack people just for liking Ezio and considering his games to be the best and the irony is that these people came here and showed their true colors.

I love Ezio and I don’t give a sh*t what anyone thinks of me for that. I’d rather play as the under developed Desmond Miles roaming some storage or Abstergo for clues than be a floating iPad that I’m told to believe to be me.



Couldn’t have explained it better myself.

I 100% agree with you on the desmond thing. I mean i love the story of the modern day... i personally think they chose the wrong decision in AC3 it would have been cooler if the sun did destroy the world but juno still came out somehow and the assassins got together to use the an artifact to make an animus or something... lol im just brainstorming but its much better than being a random nobody roaming around a boring company where it feels like the past 5 games didnt happen... it was always a story that you didnt think much of that got bigger... for example all the goverments and the first civilization... and now its back to being nothing... i really want an impactful modern day story... im actually so pissed that its us again in the modern day for ACU!!!

adventurewomen
06-11-2014, 02:56 PM
I like Altair the best, and Ezio and Connor are tied for second. I didn't really feel much for Edward.

One thing about Connor fangirls that I can say without any doubt is there annoying devotion to Connor. Ezio fans admit that Ezio has faults and clichťs, I've seen them do it, but it doesn't take away from him being a great character. Connor fans on the other hand adamantly stay in their position of unyielding and ignorant admiration for the Native halfbreed, giving BS excuses for his lack of depth and mentioning the one or two times he smiles anytime someone says that all he showed was angst and naivetť. They refuse to acknowledge any of his flaws, which is why I detest them so much.

Connor is cool though.
You're use of the "Native Halfbreed" term has offended me, as I am 1/2 Native American myself.

Connor fans know Connor isn't perfect and there is no need to be rude.

An imperfect character makes for an interesting realistic character btw

Shahkulu101
06-11-2014, 02:56 PM
I wrote this thread as a response to those who attack people just for liking Ezio and considering his games to be the best and the irony is that these people came here and showed their true colors.

I love Ezio and I donít give a sh*t what anyone thinks of me for that. Iíd rather play as the under developed Desmond Miles roaming some storage or Abstergo for clues than be a floating iPad that Iím told to believe to be me.

Just to clarify, I'm not one of those that 'showed their true colours' right? All I did was argue against one of the points you made which was that the Ezio trilogy is more about the Creed. And because I was offended at your exaggerated remark that ACIV has no story as that has my favourite story. Apparently you think it's okay to bash ACIV but people can't criticize AC2?

I personally love the Ezio trilogy and those are the games I'm the most emotionally attached to (as they provided some of my first and most memorable experiences as a gamer) but I can accept its flaws too. And Ezio's, even though I love the guy. :p

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 02:57 PM
I like Altair the best, and Ezio and Connor are tied for second. I didn't really feel much for Edward.

One thing about Connor fangirls that I can say without any doubt is there annoying devotion to Connor. Ezio fans admit that Ezio has faults and clichťs, I've seen them do it, but it doesn't take away from him being a great character. Connor fans on the other hand adamantly stay in their position of unyielding and ignorant admiration for the Native halfbreed, giving BS excuses for his lack of depth and mentioning the one or two times he smiles anytime someone says that all he showed was angst and naivetť. They refuse to acknowledge any of his flaws, which is why I detest them so much.

Connor is cool though.

Does an Assassins need to smile to be popular and liked? After all he is an ASSASSIN he kills.. My vision of an Assassin is not a Jolly womaniser.. he is a brutal badass killer in the shadows.

RinoTheBouncer
06-11-2014, 02:59 PM
He did not say "In my opinion" which is required by law.. he presented his opinion as facts therefore he is a disgusting liar and i feel cheated and i am going to cry..

I know you’re being sarcastic, but I personal don’t use “In my opinion” at all because it’s obvious when what one is saying is an opinion or a fact. No need to keep pointing that out. When somebody says “Madonna is the best selling female artist of all time” we won’t consider that an opinion, we will know for sure it’s a fact and when I say “ACII is the best” you know that this is what I personally think of it.

Azurefeatherfly
06-11-2014, 02:59 PM
There are several things I would like to comment about Ezio.

To me personally, Ezio is a likable individual who delighted many people with his personality, charisma, humor, and the fact that his life from birth to death was an experience for many was unlike any game before and after. Experiencing the life of a character for its entirety is something very rare and unique about this character.

However, in my personal bias there exists a disconnection between Ezio and the Creed that was supposed to fuel his actions as an assassin. After his lesson with Uncle Mario in respecting the dead, criticism towards the treatment of Francesco De Pazzi’s dead body should have been voiced loudly. The historical treatment of Francesco’s body does not need to be circumvented, but Ezio’s opinion on that issue should have been voiced. I do believe Ezio should have said something instead of being a mere spectator in that circumstance. This instance is one of three occurrences in Assassin’s Creed II of what I personally felt as disconnection with the Creed. The next example revolves specifically around the actions of Ezio regarding his assassination of the Venice Doge Marco Barbarigo. His celebration with the courtesans was something I did not find to be appropriate. I am not one opposed to fun; assassins in my perspective can never teach their discretion and self-control if one is allowed to celebrate their victory over another individual’s life. Lastly, Ezio calling Rodrigo Borgia “bastard” before killing him in opinion detracts from his ceremony of “Rest in Peace”. It makes me question whether Ezio really wishes to grant him peace or not. “Rest in Peace” is very much a ceremony that signifies the respect that the Assassins hold for life and the will to take on the responsibility of taking lives. Ezio’s name-calling is not something that makes me respect his role as an assassin. It is great theatrics, for me I cannot reconcile with the idea that Ezio really understood the true meaning of “Rest in Peace”. This is also something he does again in the beginning of Assassin’s Creed Revelations when assassinating the Byzantine Captain Leandros. It is not the type of action that I would like a Mentor to promote and these things that people say and do when by themselves are quiet important in understanding one’s true character.

There are two more things that I want to mention. One, Ezio’s assassination of Cesare Borgia I found to be uncharacteristic of an Assassin especially one that holds the title of Mentor. Ezio letting gravity do the work that something that really sucked away the responsibility of killing a Templar Target using the steel of the Hidden Blade. The act of taking life with the Hidden Blade is a strong one because I feel it holds tremendous significance. When the life of a target fades away while being so close to the hand of an assassin is a great reminder of the responsibility of those who fight and kill while having one’s hand stained with blood literally signifies the unjoyful act of killing and ensure that it is not easily forgettable. It is important to the initiation of an assassin and the process of being an assassin.

My last point is regarding a sequence in Revelations in which has Ezio singing supposedly humorous that include those of the dead. These songs included that of Rodrigo, Cesare and even Caterina Sforza. Respecting the dead was one of Ezio’s first lessons, one that is unfitting for someone who represents the teacher position.

Personally, the Ezio that I enjoyed the most was one in Embers. His characterization while teaching Shao Jun was one that really showed that he had learnt to be wise with limit of freedom compared to his younger self. I really did enjoy his journey as a character over the course of three games; I do wish sometimes that he would be a little more nuanced with some of the theatrics. This was an individual constructed by the Renaissance Times, that moral ambiguity and awareness is something I do wish Ezio had more of especially regarding the brutality conducted by those that Ezio considered as allies.

Altair Ibn-La’Ahad is my most respected assassin because I like all the assassins for different reasons. For Altair to die alone without comfort is something I respect tremendously because it represents conquering one’s “fear of death”. That kind of courage to die and be of service to his home and family after death and for eternity is amazing. For him to do that after all the strife, hardship, and tragedy in his life makes me truly respect him as a character. It makes me wish I could have him as a teacher.

Longer than I expected, at least I finally got it off my chest.

king-hailz
06-11-2014, 03:00 PM
Just to clarify, I'm not one of those that 'showed their true colours' right? All I did was argue against one of the points you made which was that the Ezio trilogy is more about the Creed. And because I was offended at your exaggerated remark that ACIV has no story as that has my favourite story. Apparently you think it's okay to bash ACIV but people can't criticize AC2?

I personally love the Ezio trilogy and those are the games I'm the most emotionally attached to (as they provided some of my first and most memorable experiences as a gamer) but I can accept its flaws too. And Ezio's, even though I love the guy. :p

Im an Ezio fan... but I know Ezio has flaws and that AC2 isnt a technically perfect game... However to me its the most perfect game EVER!!! Anyway i think RinoTheBouncer meant the modern day story which i agree with him on... but i loved Edwards story...

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 03:01 PM
I know youíre being sarcastic, but I personal donít use ďIn my opinionĒ at all because itís obvious when what one is saying is an opinion or a fact. No need to keep pointing that out. When somebody says ďMadonna is the best selling female artist of all timeĒ we wonít consider that an opinion, we will know for sure itís a fact and when I say ďACII is the bestĒ you know that this is what I personally think of it.

Ok so maybe you don't "have" to say In muy opinion and i was kind of making fun of it because everyone on here says you "have" to say it but its a different story when people present their opinions as facts.


There are several things I would like to comment about Ezio.

To me personally, Ezio is a likable individual who delighted many people with his personality, charisma, humor,

Do those 2 words and ASSASSIN go together? Thats what i don't like about Ezio.. too annoying and talks too much.

adventurewomen
06-11-2014, 03:06 PM
Do those 2 words and ASSASSIN go together? Thats what i don't like about Ezio.. too annoying and talks too much.
AGREED so much!

Shahkulu101
06-11-2014, 03:12 PM
Just to clarify, I'm not one of those that 'showed their true colours' right? All I did was argue against one of the points you made which was that the Ezio trilogy is more about the Creed. And because I was offended at your exaggerated remark that ACIV has no story as that has my favourite story. Apparently you think it's okay to bash ACIV but people can't criticize AC2?

I personally love the Ezio trilogy and those are the games I'm the most emotionally attached to (as they provided some of my first and most memorable experiences as a gamer) but I can accept its flaws too. And Ezio's, even though I love the guy. :p

Would like an answer to this, Rino. Just don't want to be thought of as one of those annoying Ezio bashers.

RinoTheBouncer
06-11-2014, 03:13 PM
There are several things I would like to comment about Ezio.

To me personally, Ezio is a likable individual who delighted many people with his personality, charisma, humor, and the fact that his life from birth to death was an experience for many was unlike any game before and after. Experiencing the life of a character for its entirety is something very rare and unique about this character.



I completely agree with you. Not only being likable was the factor that we enjoyed the Ezio saga, but the fact that we followed an entire lifetime was something really remarkable and original. We literally saw him being born and in Embers we saw him pass away. The growth process was wonderful. I love seeing how Ezio was a rebellious young man in ACII and how he grew to become different near the end and how in Brotherhood he’s mature yet also fan and a bit of the womanizer he used to be while in AC:R, he’s totally grown, he’s a wise man, he’s still powerful, skilled and cunning with his attacks and he’s a bit funny as well, not to mention romantic. And in Embers, he signified some of the signs of aging that many people experience like being doubtful, anxious, having trust issues, being wise, being warm and full of mysteries and secrets. He was perfect.


However, in my personal bias there exists a disconnection between Ezio and the Creed that was supposed to fuel his actions as an assassin. After his lesson with Uncle Mario in respecting the dead, criticism towards the treatment of Francesco De Pazzi’s dead body should have been voiced loudly. The historical treatment of Francesco’s body does not need to be circumvented, but Ezio’s opinion on that issue should have been voiced. I do believe Ezio should have said something instead of being a mere spectator in that circumstance. This instance is one of three occurrences in Assassin’s Creed II of what I personally felt as disconnection with the Creed. The next example revolves specifically around the actions of Ezio regarding his assassination of the Venice Doge Marco Barbarigo. His celebration with the courtesans was something I did not find to be appropriate. I am not one opposed to fun; assassins in my perspective can never teach their discretion and self-control if one is allowed to celebrate their victory over another individual’s life. Lastly, Ezio calling Rodrigo Borgia “bastard” before killing him in opinion detracts from his ceremony of “Rest in Peace”. It makes me question whether Ezio really wishes to grant him peace or not. “Rest in Peace” is very much a ceremony that signifies the respect that the Assassins hold for life and the will to take on the responsibility of taking lives. Ezio’s name-calling is not something that makes me respect his role as an assassin. It is great theatrics, for me I cannot reconcile with the idea that Ezio really understood the true meaning of “Rest in Peace”. This is also something he does again in the beginning of Assassin’s Creed Revelations when assassinating the Byzantine Captain Leandros. It is not the type of action that I would like a Mentor to promote and these things that people say and do are quiet important in understanding one’s true character.

I agree with you that Ezio had some moments where he didn’t act as he should have but I will tell you that Altair also broke the 3 tenants of the Creed and people got killed and disabled because of him. So I see Ezio as no angel. He did make mistakes and it’s totally understandable since he’s a human being, especially that he was driven by revenge, so he will for sure not always prevent his feelings from taking over and clouding his judgments and behaviors.


There are two more things that I want to mention. One, Ezio’s assassination of Cesare Borgia I found to be uncharacteristic of an Assassin especially one that holds the title of Mentor. Ezio letting gravity do the work that something that really sucked away the responsibility of killing a Templar Target using the steel of the Hidden Blade. The act of taking life with the Hidden Blade is a strong one because I feel it holds tremendous significance. When the life of a target fades away while being so close to the hand of an assassin is a great reminder of the responsibility of those who fight and kill while having one’s hand stained with blood literally signifies the unjoyful act of killing and ensure that it is not easily forgettable. It is important to the initiation of an assassin and the process of being an assassin.

I think the gravity thing was done for artistic purposes. Just like any movie where in the last moment, the hero says some inspiring words when killing the villain while the world crumbles around them and could’ve killed the hero but it seems as though time freezes when the protagonist wants to say something dramatic. So I guess this was made this way to make it more theatrical. Ezio probably knew the fall would kill him, especially after all the wounds he caused him.


My last point is regarding a sequence in Revelations in which has Ezio singing supposedly humorous that include those of the dead. These songs included that of Rodrigo, Cesare and even Caterina Sforza. Respecting the dead was one of Ezio’s first lessons, one that is unfitting for someone who represents the teacher position.

Like I said above, I believe this was made for the fans as a way to remind us of the sarcastic nature of Ezio versus a throwback to our old enemies. I doubt it was humiliating to them as much as it was funny to listen to as a short segment. I believe respecting the dead is by not dismembering or pissing on their corpse rather than not mentioning them much later in a humorous poem.


Personally, the Ezio that I enjoyed the most was one in Embers. His characterization while teaching Shao Jun was one that really showed that he had learnt to be wise with limit of freedom compared to his younger self. I really did enjoy his journey as a character over the course of three games; I do wish sometimes that he would be a little more nuanced with some of the theatrics. This was an individual constructed by the Renaissance Times, that moral ambiguity and awareness is something I do wish Ezio had more of especially regarding the brutality conducted by those that Ezio considered as allies.

I totally agree with this.


Altair Ibn-La’Ahad is my most respected assassin because I like all the assassins for different reasons. For Altair to die alone without comfort is something I respect tremendously because it represents conquering one’s “fear of death”. That kind of courage to die and be of service to his home and family after death and for eternity is amazing. It makes me wish I could have him as a teacher.

Altair was an example of what an Assassin should be. He was the first and he had all the darkness, mystery, skill and he had this aura around him that is totally different from any other Assassin. He had the spirit of the Creed and that’s justified by the fact that he was born into the Creed, he knew nothing other than the Creed so being an Assassin to him is like breathing to every human. It’s something natural. And later in his age, he changed, he became much wiser and much darker. I believe there’s so much sorrow in him to the extent that I believe he never really felt so happy.

He’s an iconic figure. Yes, Ezio is my No.1 but Altair is like that grand figure that every Assassin seeks to be and that’s what Ezio paid tribute to in AC:R.


Longer than I expected, at least I finally got it off my chest.

It was a pleasure to read it :)

Azurefeatherfly
06-11-2014, 03:16 PM
Do those 2 words and ASSASSIN go together? Thats what i don't like about Ezio.. too annoying and talks too much.


Being an assassin can mean many things, why bound one's self with such limits and restrictions. Perspective is more important than definition in my opinion especially when you have a series that believes the mantra of "Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted".

That aspect of Ezio was not what attracted me, but I know of people who were happy to see it.

Megas_Doux
06-11-2014, 03:18 PM
Another thread that turned into a feud between Connor and Ezio fans?????


How exciting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://pixandpies.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/assassins-creed-2-leonardo-da-vinci_1728j.jpg

Except NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

My theory : if you express "love" for Connor everywhere but here and tumblr, Ezio fans will come after you, that is FACT! Here is quite the contrary, but not THAT extent though, saying something good about Ezio, or directly saying he is your favorite will grant you more "backlash" than in other places.

In terms of the OP, I like AC II and ACR.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 03:24 PM
Being an assassin can mean many things, why bound one's self with such limits and restrictions. Perspective is more important than definition in my opinion especially when you have a series that believes the mantra of "Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted".

That aspect of Ezio was not what attracted me, but I know of people who were happy to see it.

Ezio just lacked to me and was not what I pictured as an Assassin.. You can't kill someone and then joke 10 mins later and then go after a woman another 10 mins later... Once you join the Assassins you commit yourself to the cause...

Ezio in ACR was meant to be wise but how was throwing down Leondros's body and saying "Rest in peace bastard" wise for a mentor Assassin and what was supposed to be a wise man? Ezio only became wise at the end of ACR.

adventurewomen
06-11-2014, 03:29 PM
Ezio just lacked to me and was not what I pictured as an Assassin.. You can't kill someone and then joke 10 mins later and then go after a woman another 10 mins later... Once you join the Assassins you commit yourself to the cause...
Exactly, Ezio being the stereotypical Italian with the Casanova personality was just so irritating to see in his games, I didn't care for how many women he slept with on the map,

RinoTheBouncer
06-11-2014, 03:37 PM
Do those 2 words and ASSASSIN go together? Thats what i don't like about Ezio.. too annoying and talks too much.

I have to disagree with this. Just because somebody is a hero or an Assassin doesn’t mean they have to be dark, gloomy and only talk a few words. Being an Assassin is not a religion or a cult, you don’t have to be in a certain way. You just gotta hang on to the 3 tenants -which Altair broke- so I guess it’s not an Ezio thing to be an unorthodox Assassin. I know INFAMOUS: Second Son isn’t an AC game and the guy isn’t an Assassin but I loved the fact that whether you choose to be a villain or a hero, you’re a believable, ordinary guy. You don’t have to have awesome speeches or use terms that people rarely do in real life. He talked like any normal guy.


Ok so maybe you don't "have" to say In muy opinion and i was kind of making fun of it because everyone on here says you "have" to say it but its a different story when people present their opinions as facts.

I understand that you meant to be sarcastic. I’m also commenting about those people who make it sound like it’s a must to use these. And yes, there’s a huge difference between that and considering opinions to be facts.


Just to clarify, I'm not one of those that 'showed their true colours' right? All I did was argue against one of the points you made which was that the Ezio trilogy is more about the Creed. And because I was offended at your exaggerated remark that ACIV has no story as that has my favourite story. Apparently you think it's okay to bash ACIV but people can't criticize AC2?

I personally love the Ezio trilogy and those are the games I'm the most emotionally attached to (as they provided some of my first and most memorable experiences as a gamer) but I can accept its flaws too. And Ezio's, even though I love the guy. :p

Oh, I’m really sorry if it sounded that way. I really didn’t mean you, personally. It just bothers me when fans to different forms of art kind of blame one another for liking something. Lady Gaga fans attack Madonna fans for loving Madonna or the likes haha. :p

I personally love Edward so much and he’s my 2nd favorite Assassin. But here’s why I said what I said about ACIV. The game introduced FPS modern day, no Desmond, high focus on Pirates and sailing, not many Assassins or notable villains, and not much First Civ. stuff. So I guess all those mixed together made it feel like the game is a whole different thing. I could not relate to the story. I mean, I totally loved the character evolution for Edward but I felt like if the game wasn’t named Assassin’s Creed, I would’ve welcomed the story more.

I became a fan of AC since AC1 and though I don’t like historical films and games much, I got into AC because of the modern day story, first civ mythology and the conspiracies so when all those got reduced or were completely half-a*sed, it felt like they took away every reason for me to love the game.


Exactly, Ezio being the stereotypical Italian with the Casanova personality was just so irritating to see in his games, I didn't care for how many women he slept with on the map,

I guess that’s one of the parts of exploring what being an Assassin means. In ACI, ACII-ACB-ACR and ACIII, we got 3 different Assassins and each one was completely different from the other. So I guess that empowers the fact that being an Assassin doesn’t necessarily mean you have to be of a certain personality or attitude.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 03:42 PM
I have to disagree with this. Just because somebody is a hero or an Assassin doesn’t mean they have to be dark, gloomy and only talk a few words. Being an Assassin is not a religion or a cult, you don’t have to be in a certain way. You just gotta hang on to the 3 tenants -which Altair broke- so I guess it’s not an Ezio thing to be an unorthodox Assassin. I know INFAMOUS: Second Son isn’t an AC game and the guy isn’t an Assassin but I loved the fact that whether you choose to be a villain or a hero, you’re a believable, ordinary guy. You don’t have to have awesome speeches or use terms that people rarely do in real life. He talked like any normal guy.


I agree with you.. Each Assassin doesn't have to act the same.. but In reality becoming an Assassin changes you... After killing and taking many lives you should become more wiser and maybe even slightly learn as time goes on.. But with Ezio he just stayed the same in all his games... even at 55 in ACR... womaniser.. It got old.

Altair Learned

Connor Learned

Edward Learned

Took Ezio until his late 50's to learn.

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 03:44 PM
Exactly, Ezio being the stereotypical Italian with the Casanova personality was just so irritating to see in his games, I didn't care for how many women he slept with on the map,So you don't like Italians yet whenever someone mentione Native Americans you deem it racist or that you've been offended?

How exactly is Ezio a sterotypical Italian either? How many Italians do you know that climb buildings, kill guards and wield apples that can fry your brain? He also what, slept with maybe 5-6 girls in AC2, over a period of 20 years that's anything but a lot.

RinoTheBouncer
06-11-2014, 03:48 PM
I agree with you.. Each Assassin doesn't have to act the same.. but In reality becoming an Assassin changes you... After killing and taking many lives you should become more wiser and maybe even slightly learn as time goes on.. But with Ezio he just stayed the same in all his games... even at 55 in ACR... womaniser.. It got old.

I agree that it does change you but that’s exactly what happened to Ezio. AC:R Ezio is nowhere near the young man at the start of ACII and neither was the man at the end of ACII in any way similar to what he was at the beginning or what became of him in AC:R. He’s a womanizer, yes but did he not become wise? he sure did. With Sofia, and the way he talked about her to Claudia, it was with love and respect rather than some fling like what the Courtesans were to him or the woman he met in Monteriggioni before Claudia’s birthday.

I think they just couldn’t end the fact that he’s a womanizer. He can admire a beautiful lady even with age but he definitely became much wiser and different than what he used to be. Even in Brotherhood. He wasn’t this rebellious kid. He always had some sort of a plan or a clam way of approaching things rather than how reckless he used to be.

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 03:48 PM
I agree with you.. Each Assassin doesn't have to act the same.. but In reality becoming an Assassin changes you... After killing and taking many lives you should become more wiser and maybe even slightly learn as time goes on.. But with Ezio he just stayed the same in all his games... even at 55 in ACR... womaniser.. It got old.Ezio hardly was stagnant, AC2 Ezio to ACR Ezio is a totally different beast and so he should be.

All of the Assassins have experienced growth in character, but none more then Altair Son of Umar.

adventurewomen
06-11-2014, 03:51 PM
So you don't like Italians yet whenever someone mentione Native Americans you deem it racist or that you've been offended?
The term that was used was in this thread.... but anyway in terms of Ubisoft they represented us Native Americans correctly no stereotypical Hollywood vision of what it means to be Native American, Ubisoft did repent us the right way!

In general, I don't like stereotyped nationalities or cultures, that is what I was referring to.

Farlander1991
06-11-2014, 03:52 PM
It just bothers me when fans to different forms of art kind of blame one another for liking something. Lady Gaga fans attack Madonna fans for loving Madonna or the likes haha.

What honestly bothers me is when fans of something criticize something for the same things that are in the thing they like where they don't criticize it :p I.e. quite a few of AC2 fans criticize other AC games for flaws that AC2 has got, but AC2 gets a free pass for some reason and it's still wonderful that it does that, and it happens (well, at least happened, didn't really encounter it lately now that a lot of discussions about a newly released game have subsided) fairly frequently on these forums.

SpiritOfNevaeh
06-11-2014, 03:52 PM
Ok, let me say this briefly if I may.

I didn't mind Ezio. Believe me, Im sort of an Ezio fan myself but not to the point where he's better than every character in the AC franchise or any franchise for that matter. But to be honest, a charismatic, ladies-man, drinker/smoker/curses a lot/talks a lot character doesnt relate to me and maybe that's what the people want in terms of protagonists. And since Connor is a very realistic character, thats maybe why they can't relate to him.

I know there are some people out there who can't relate to realistic characters and I believe this situation is one of them. And I find that sad because if all videos game characters were like Ezio, I think the video game world would have gotten boring pretty fast. Hence why they introduced a new realistic one. Diversity is what keeps all franchises, outside the video game world, interesting and keeps us guessing.

Long story short, yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but comparing a character every time a "hated" one is brought up to another "loved" is just, for lack of a better word, pointless because another person will have a different opinion and such and that proves nothing. Every character is unique in their own way, including Altair, Arno, and Aveline (three A's, haha). If I had a nickel every time I heard a comparison between Connor and [insert another faved character here], I'd buy out Ubisoft by now. lol.

I just think people will grow onto Connor if they do a sequel just to develop his story. And if they do come out with a sequel, FULLY develop his story/character, and they STILL don't like him, then they are close-minded always wanting a ... non-realistic character... or the same kind of character in every single video game, and thank God they're not the ones running the video game franchises.

pacmanate
06-11-2014, 03:54 PM
How is Ezio a stereotype at all

RinoTheBouncer
06-11-2014, 03:55 PM
What honestly bothers me is when fans of something criticize something for the same things that are in the thing they like where they don't criticize it :p I.e. quite a few of AC2 fans criticize other AC games for flaws that AC2 has got, but AC2 gets a free pass for some reason and it's still wonderful that it does that, and it happens (well, at least happened, didn't really encounter it lately now that a lot of discussions about a newly released game have subsided) fairly frequently on these forums.

I agree with you about that. But I guess it’s more about how the mixture turned out to be. Sometimes you get things in a game or any work of art that the overall product just looks perfect despite the imperfections while another mixture that contains the same elements is just mixed in a different way that it yields a whole different thing, much like H2O and H2O2. Or in other words, ACII, to it’s fans had things that made every other imperfection feel forgivable.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 03:58 PM
Ezio hardly was stagnant, AC2 Ezio to ACR Ezio is a totally different beast and so he should be.

All of the Assassins have experienced growth in character, but none more then Altair Son of Umar.

AC2: Mario tells Ezio not to disrespect the body after he kills (forgot his name)..

ACR: Rest in peace bastardo as he chucks Leandros's dead corpse to the ground..

I guess i will always dislike the character of Ezio and the type of Assassin he was because my vision of an Assassin is a quite stealthy blade in the shadow.. Not some loudmouth womaniser. But anyway im getting tired and cbf to debate anymore..

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 03:59 PM
I am half Italian, and indeed, Ezio is pretty stereotypical in terms of the whole "womanzing thing", however the worst offender has to be Bartolomeo d'Alviano though haha,

In gerneral, AC II and ACB went for a childish, cliche and cartoonish approach in terms of characterization, Baron de Valois anyone????I think with the success of AC2, a humoury kind of approach was what they thought necessary. And with the success's of AC2, ACB and AC4 they weren't wrong.

Megas_Doux
06-11-2014, 03:59 PM
So you don't like Italians yet whenever someone mentione Native Americans you deem it racist or that you've been offended?

How exactly is Ezio a sterotypical Italian either? How many Italians do you know that climb buildings, kill guards and wield apples that can fry your brain? He also what, slept with maybe 5-6 girls in AC2, over a period of 20 years that's anything but a lot.

I am half Italian, and indeed, Ezio is pretty stereotypical in terms of the whole "womanizer thing", however the worst offender has to be Bartolomeo d'Alviano in his whole "moustached, yealing" persona though.

In general, AC II and ACB went for a childish, cliche and cartoonish approach in terms of characterization, Cesare Borgia, Baron de Valois anyone????

king-hailz
06-11-2014, 04:00 PM
Do those 2 words and ASSASSIN go together? Thats what i don't like about Ezio.. too annoying and talks too much.

The assassin's creed is a philosophy avove all, not just about murdering people for money. Being part of a philosophy shouldnt affect your personality.

roostersrule2
06-11-2014, 04:03 PM
AC2: Mario tells Ezio not to disrespect the body after he kills (forgot his name)..

ACR: Rest in peace bastardo as he chucks Leandros's dead corpse to the ground..

I guess i will always dislike the character of Ezio and the type of Assassin he was because my vision of an Assassin is a quite stealthy blade in the shadow.. Not some loudmouth womaniser. But anyway im getting tired and cbf to debate anymore..The guy tried to hang him... then blew him off a cliff, then sent his guards.

I think he got off lightly.

You're idea of an Assassin is definitley more Altair then Connor, Ezio and Connor are just as far a way as your optimal Assassin as each other, just on different ends of the scale.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 04:05 PM
The assassin's creed is a philosophy avove all, not just about murdering people for money. Being part of a philosophy shouldnt affect your personality.

So your saying Killing people doesn't affect your personality? They are Assassins for a reason.. They have Killed many Guards that were probably just working to support their families, They aren't heroes... It takes a special kind of person to kill and I dont envision a Charismatic and womanising man doing that.

DinoSteve1
06-11-2014, 04:06 PM
I don't think I'll bother weighing in on this as everyone knows how I feel about AC3 already, I will say though its no coincidence that Ezio is the most popular Assassin. I don't care what people believe an Assassin should be or how the Creed should affect him, the simple fact is had there been no Ezio there would be no Conor and no Arno. AC2 saved this franchise.

Now we have a new Assassin's Creed coming, lets talk about it.

GunnerGalactico
06-11-2014, 04:10 PM
I don't think I'll bother weighing in on this as everyone knows how I feel about AC3 already, I will say though its no coincidence that Ezio is the most popular Assassin. I don't care what people believe an Assassin should be or how the Creed should affect him, the simple fact is had there been no Ezio there would be no Conor and no Arno. AC2 saved this franchise.

Now we have a new Assassin's Creed coming, lets talk about it.

Best idea you've had all day mate :p

See what I did there.

Legendz54
06-11-2014, 04:11 PM
The guy tried to hang him... then blew him off a cliff, then sent his guards.

I think he got off lightly.

You're idea of an Assassin is definitley more Altair then Connor, Ezio and Connor are just as far a way as your optimal Assassin as each other, just on different ends of the scale.

Al mulaim made Altair think he was dead and stabbed him.. then led him on a whole pointless journey to kill all these people and then ambushes me after all my hard work and tries to kill me.. Altair still talked to him and gave him the proper Assassination.

Granted no Assassin will be as Dedicated to the Creed as Altair.. Its just that Connor to me showed more growth as a character in one game then Ezio did in 3.

EDIT: Yea i started all this crap on the first page and now i think i want to wrap it up and go back to being excited about Unity.

RinoTheBouncer
06-11-2014, 04:11 PM
Ok, let me say this briefly if I may.

I didn't mind Ezio. Believe me, Im sort of an Ezio fan myself but not to the point where he's better than every character in the AC franchise or any franchise for that matter. But to be honest, a charismatic, ladies-man, drinker/smoker/curses a lot/talks a lot character doesnt relate to me and maybe that's what the people want in terms of protagonists. And since Connor is a very realistic character, thats maybe why they can't relate to him.

I know there are some people out there who can't relate to realistic characters and I believe this situation is one of them. And I find that sad because if all videos game characters were like Ezio, I think the video game world would have gotten boring pretty fast. Hence why they introduced a new realistic one. Diversity is what keeps all franchises, outside the video game world, interesting and keeps us guessing.

Long story short, yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but comparing a character every time a "hated" one is brought up to another "loved" is just, for lack of a better word, pointless because another person will have a different opinion and such and that proves nothing. Every character is unique in their own way, including Altair, Arno, and Aveline (three A's, haha). If I had a nickel every time I heard a comparison between Connor and [insert another faved character here], I'd buy out Ubisoft by now. lol.

I just think people will grow onto Connor if they do a sequel just to develop his story. And if they do come out with a sequel, FULLY develop his story/character, and they STILL don't like him, then they are close-minded always wanting a ... non-realistic character... or the same kind of character in every single video game, and thank God they're not the ones running the video game franchises.

I like your post. I agree with a lot of points. In fact, most of it. I personally consider Ezio to be my No.1, at least from AC franchise but that’s not because I don’t relate to other characters nor because Connor is less than he is. It’s just that a lot of elements about him and his games made the combination a very successful one. I love Connor so much and I dream to have a sequel for him. I think he wasn’t done any justice with just one game. Altair got small segments in Revelations that finalized his story but Connor is yet to receive a closure or at least a slight insight on what happened with him, alter. It would be very interesting to see what became of him, afterwards.

I think had Ubisoft made more games starring Connor or Connor and Haytham in flashbacks, something similar to AC:R, maybe AC:Generations where we see Edward, Haytham and Connor all together and comparing their journeys and what Kenway bloodline went through. If the reception wasn’t good, I think it’s because of the genre. Most people closed minded when it comes to genres and the type of characters portrayed. A bad *** girl is always welcome and she’s always expected to be super sexy, like Lara Croft. If you bring a badass lady with not so-sexy body and looks, many people aren’t gonna welcome her much. Same goes for the action genre as a whole, with action, people expect super-hero kinda people with those epic moments and quotes and dramatic scenes while with a Quantic Dream game like Heavy Rain or Beyond, people want to see a much more realistic person.

I’m not saying I agree or disagree, but I’m saying that’s what happens with a lot of people.

I also agree that fighting over any character is pointless because I’m sure each person has their own favorite traits and personalities that became the reason for liking and disliking a character and it’s not that those who love Connor and those who love Ezio, are getting paid to love him or are relatives of either character but it’s just personal preferences, as you said.

killzab
06-11-2014, 04:15 PM
Ok, let me say this briefly if I may.

I didn't mind Ezio. Believe me, Im sort of an Ezio fan myself but not to the point where he's better than every character in the AC franchise or any franchise for that matter. But to be honest, a charismatic, ladies-man, drinker/smoker/curses a lot/talks a lot character doesnt relate to me and maybe that's what the people want in terms of protagonists. And since Connor is a very realistic character, thats maybe why they can't relate to him.

I know there are some people out there who can't relate to realistic characters and I believe this situation is one of them. And I find that sad because if all videos game characters were like Ezio, I think the video game world would have gotten boring pretty fast. Hence why they introduced a new realistic one. Diversity is what keeps all franchises, outside the video game world, interesting and keeps us guessing.

Long story short, yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but comparing a character every time a "hated" one is brought up to another "loved" is just, for lack of a better word, pointless because another person will have a different opinion and such and that proves nothing. Every character is unique in their own way, including Altair, Arno, and Aveline (three A's, haha). If I had a nickel every time I heard a comparison between Connor and [insert another faved character here], I'd buy out Ubisoft by now. lol.

I just think people will grow onto Connor if they do a sequel just to develop his story. And if they do come out with a sequel, FULLY develop his story/character, and they STILL don't like him, then they are close-minded always wanting a ... non-realistic character... or the same kind of character in every single video game, and thank God they're not the ones running the video game franchises.

Opinions you know ? Even if they fully develop him , we have the right to not like him and not be narrow-minded.

SpiritOfNevaeh
06-11-2014, 04:25 PM
I like your post. I agree with a lot of points. In fact, most of it. I personally consider Ezio to be my No.1, at least from AC franchise but that’s not because I don’t relate to other characters nor because Connor is less than he is. It’s just that a lot of elements about him and his games made the combination a very successful one. I love Connor so much and I dream to have a sequel for him. I think he wasn’t done any justice with just one game. Altair got small segments in Revelations that finalized his story but Connor is yet to receive a closure or at least a slight insight on what happened with him, alter. It would be very interesting to see what became of him, afterwards.

I think had Ubisoft made more games starring Connor or Connor and Haytham in flashbacks, something similar to AC:R, maybe AC:Generations where we see Edward, Haytham and Connor all together and comparing their journeys and what Kenway bloodline went through. If the reception wasn’t good, I think it’s because of the genre. Most people closed minded when it comes to genres and the type of characters portrayed. A bad *** girl is always welcome and she’s always expected to be super sexy, like Lara Croft. If you bring a badass lady with not so-sexy body and looks, many people aren’t gonna welcome her much. Same goes for the action genre as a whole, with action, people expect super-hero kinda people with those epic moments and quotes and dramatic scenes while with a Quantic Dream game like Heavy Rain or Beyond, people want to see a much more realistic person.

I’m not saying I agree or disagree, but I’m saying that’s what happens with a lot of people.

I also agree that fighting over any character is pointless because I’m sure each person has their own favorite traits and personalities that became the reason for liking and disliking a character and it’s not that those who love Connor and those who love Ezio, are getting paid to love him or are relatives of either character but it’s just personal preferences, as you said.

My thoughts exactly!

GunnerGalactico
06-11-2014, 04:26 PM
Ok, let me say this briefly if I may.

I didn't mind Ezio. Believe me, Im sort of an Ezio fan myself but not to the point where he's better than every character in the AC franchise or any franchise for that matter. But to be honest, a charismatic, ladies-man, drinker/smoker/curses a lot/talks a lot character doesnt relate to me and maybe that's what the people want in terms of protagonists. And since Connor is a very realistic character, thats maybe why they can't relate to him.

I know there are some people out there who can't relate to realistic characters and I believe this situation is one of them. And I find that sad because if all videos game characters were like Ezio, I think the video game world would have gotten boring pretty fast. Hence why they introduced a new realistic one. Diversity is what keeps all franchises, outside the video game world, interesting and keeps us guessing.

Long story short, yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but comparing a character every time a "hated" one is brought up to another "loved" is just, for lack of a better word, pointless because another person will have a different opinion and such and that proves nothing. Every character is unique in their own way, including Altair, Arno, and Aveline (three A's, haha). If I had a nickel every time I heard a comparison between Connor and [insert another faved character here], I'd buy out Ubisoft by now. lol.

I just think people will grow onto Connor if they do a sequel just to develop his story. And if they do come out with a sequel, FULLY develop his story/character, and they STILL don't like him, then they are close-minded always wanting a ... non-realistic character... or the same kind of character in every single video game, and thank God they're not the ones running the video game franchises.

Absolutely spot on ;)

DinoSteve1
06-11-2014, 04:29 PM
Best idea you've had all day mate :p

See what I did there.

pfft I haven't said anything about AC3 or Conor for awhile, or am I being a moron and missing the point.

Hans684
06-11-2014, 04:40 PM
Iíve always wanted to shed some light on this subject for sometime and itís more of a critique on the evolution of the AC franchise than merely sharing my love for the Ezio saga.

Iíve encountered so many Assassinís Creed fans who criticized those of us who love the Ezio saga more than any other game and they make it sound like some sort of an obsession or a blind following, by saying ďYeah, for sure you didnít like ACIV, because Godzio isnít part of itĒ, as if itís a shame to actually like Ezioís games. Well hereís what I have to say about it. Just answer those questions and itíll make sense: are we relatives or friends with the developers of the Ezio saga? am I dating the creative director? am I being paid by the team who made those games? Did we gain any personal benefit for loving these games? the answer is no, for all those questions.

So thereís no bias, there is no obsession, thereís just a total admiration to where the story, the gameplay and to where the franchise as a whole was going. I know a lot of you have loathed AC:Revelations for some reason, but I personally consider ACII and AC:R to tie on the No.1 rank of the best AC games. I loved each second of those games and Brotherhood as well. When Iím asked to choose which one is my favorite AC game, I can point out and leave out some games, easily but with Ezioís saga, I personally donít know which one to choose unless the choice was ďAll 3 gamesĒ. The likable character, the mix between funny and serious, dark and light, action and drama was totally beautiful and very immersive.

I feel like at the times of the Ezio saga and even ACI, AC games stories really did matter, the Creed really did matter, the modern day and historical stories were walking hand in hand and there was a progress with each new game. There was a noticeable evolution and each game was promoted as a story of the Assassin and the Creed as well as a new setting for historical tourism. However, since ACIII was announced and I feel like the whole franchise started promoting itself by itís setting and new mechanics. ACIII was promoted as an explorer of the Frontier jungles and endless plains and the introduction of Naval and hunting, ACIV was promoted as a Pirates game, a naval game. And while ACIII had a really good historical and modern day story and a significant expansion to modern day missions -which I personally loved-, ACIV did not promote the story and there wasnít any story to begin with. There was so much potential for many connections to P.O.E.s and underwater locations but all the open waters were just made to make the world bigger and add more copy/paste side-missions.

Now with AC Unity, which Iím personally loving for itís breathtaking graphics that are truly next gen looking, and the massive number of NPCs, given that they wonít downgrade it with the final product, it is still being promoted as the next gen AC that has Co-op. Nothing is revealed about the story so far other than WATCH_DOGS with a stepdad rather than a niece being the victim. A larger map is being boasted about but still nothing regarding the story.

Iím not here to criticize AC:Unity and Iím personally excited to see what itís made of but Iím only reviewing the evolution of the series as a whole and explaining why Ezioís saga remains No.1 for many fans and those fans arenít just delusional kids who liked the fact that there was a sex scene in the ACII and AC:B, but rather people who invested enough time understanding the puzzles, the glyphs, the rifts, the story as a whole and found something special in it rather than just the fancy new mechanics and graphics.

I personally believe that the formula that made ACII happen is something Ubisoft will never be able to repeat. It was a mixture, original at the time and very entertaining and unless they revert back to the good story-telling and connectivity, either by a reboot or some alternate possibility timeline for the games, they will always base their success on mainstream settings, fancy new weapons and multiplayer, which is now promoting as a main part of the story campaign as well.

It is quite evident that when they made Altair, they made him dark, mysterious, powerful, light, a true blade in the crowd, the gained a lot of success but then, when they were still innovative, they created a different type of character who is Ezio, he was even more admired by the public and when they brought a new one with ACIII, the response was mixed. I personally loved Connor but many did not. So since that day, they tried replicating Ezio and they could not get close to how well-received and inspirational he was. Edward is my second favorite Assassin after Ezio but it was obvious that they wanted to make him Ezio II and that didnít work very well and now Arno also gives me that vibe, even though not much has been revealed about him.

So my point is that Ubisoft is clearly trying hard to repeat the Ezio saga without letting you notice that and at the same time, theyíre putting way too much mechanisms into the new games that the story, the Assassins and their Creed as well as the Templar order are all taking the backseat and becoming more of a context than an actual evolving story like a T.V. series which is what it was back with Ezioís saga and even ACI and ACIII. The connectivity is fading away, gradually and noticeably and I personally feel that the games became way too crowded with mechanics that they need to be reset to something perhaps from ancient times where we have a light assassin with a simple dagger and rely mostly on skill than the variety of weapons, recruits and mechanics.

Knowing fans of the various forms of art, and since video gaming is an art, just like films, books, music, paintings..etc. I donít see how the reaction would be so different from their respective fans. Many singers create a song that because an international hit and everybody goes so crazy about it, for some reason and then when the artist creates something different, they donít embrace it like they did and when they try to replicate the past success, it doesnít work either. Sometimes itís the fans being too hard to let go or too hard to convince with something new and sometimes itís just the lack of originality.

Ubisoft is still missing the point that once upon a time, when AC games were so iconic and unforgettable, much more than the last 3 entries was because the games had game play AND a story and the story was well written and connected and the cliffhangers gave an excuse for the franchise to become annualized, not to mention how modern day and historical settings were going hand in hand and both stories matters. Iím not saying ACIII, ACIV and AC:U did not/will not sell well but Iím saying that regarding lasting appeal and being memorable and iconic, the last iconic AC based on a consensus from fans was AC2 and ACB. Many loved ACIII and AC:R, I adore both of them but they still received mixed reviews, regardless of sales.

Feel free to discuss...

CLARIFICATION: I adore every single Assassin so far. Ezio just happened to by my No.1 so donít take what I wrote above as a way to show that Connor sucks or Edward sucks or whatever nor to start a fan wars thread instead of a discussion about the evolution of the games. I love them all. My least favorite is Aveline, though and thatís probably due to her role not being so big on a major console.

Tired of the justifications, excuses and contradictions from both sides, not gonna give my view. Why can't we just get along and be happy with what we have?

adventurewomen
06-11-2014, 04:53 PM
My least favorite is Aveline, though and that’s probably due to her role not being so big on a major console.
Lame reason to dislike a character...

If you forgotten we did get AC Liberation HD on 360, PS3 and PC so more fans got to play Liberation.

xx-pyro
06-11-2014, 04:55 PM
So your saying Killing people doesn't affect your personality? They are Assassins for a reason.. They have Killed many Guards that were probably just working to support their families, They aren't heroes... It takes a special kind of person to kill and I dont envision a Charismatic and womanising man doing that.

So because Ezio doesn't fit your headcanon on what an Assassin is you don't think he's a good character? Fair enough :rolleyes: Personally I liked Edward and AC4 the best, and like Ezio and Connor about evenly for different reasons. Altair was just a boring slob until Revelations, and not a very good character at all (I guess I just didn't like how linearly he progressed as a character).

Kaschra
06-11-2014, 04:57 PM
One of the main reasons why I can't stand Connor is because of his fans. I've come across so many bratty and rude Connor fans... it's really not funny.




I just think people will grow onto Connor if they do a sequel just to develop his story. And if they do come out with a sequel, FULLY develop his story/character, and they STILL don't like him, then they are close-minded always wanting a ... non-realistic character... or the same kind of character in every single video game, and thank God they're not the ones running the video game franchises.

Here. This is it. This is the perfect example why I can't stand his fans :)
Have you EVER heard of different opinions?
Just because a character has a fully developed story, or character development or whatever, doesn't mean that you have to like them!

RinoTheBouncer
06-11-2014, 04:58 PM
Absolutely spot on ;)

*Fist bump*


Tired of the justifications, excuses and contradictions from both sides, not gonna give my view. Why can't we just get along and be happy with what we have?

I’m not really aiming to justify so that everybody loves Ezio and I’m completely with the idea of loving what we love without fan wares. I guess you misunderstood my thread. I have nothing against anyone who prefers Connor or Altair and I’m happy with what I’ve got with ACII.


Lame reason to dislike a character...

If you forgotten we did get AC Liberation HD on 360, PS3 and PC so more fans got to play Liberation.

Well you know, sometimes one just does not like something. The default stance doesn’t have to be “I LOVE HER” until there’s an explanation for not doing so. I just couldn’t relate to her and that’s not cause I’m a guy and she’s a girl. But she just wasn’t very appealing and I said it could be the fact that the game was small and not too detailed but it could be just her not being relatable to me.

adventurewomen
06-11-2014, 05:01 PM
One of the main reasons why I can't stand Connor is because of his fans. I've come across so many bratty and rude Connor fans... it's really not funny.

Here. This is it. This is the perfect example why I can't stand his fans :)
Have you EVER heard of different opinions?
Just because a character has a fully developed story, or character development or whatever, doesn't mean that you have to like them!
Of course everyone has different opinions and they reserve the right to them, all that my friend Humble was saying is that the fans who dislike Connor just have an open mind if he does return for a sequel to his story.

There isn't any reason why you needed to be rude.. please calm down.

SpiritOfNevaeh
06-11-2014, 05:03 PM
One of the main reasons why I can't stand Connor is because of his fans. I've come across so many bratty and rude Connor fans... it's really not funny.

Here. This is it. This is the perfect example why I can't stand his fans :)
Have you EVER heard of different opinions?
Just because a character has a fully developed story, or character development or whatever, doesn't mean that you have to like them!

Hence, why I stated that in the post... It's good to have different opinions but the thing is people are using comparisons to other characters or are so used to an omnipresent kind of character that they don't like another.

... And they're probably rude and bratty because of the way other people treat him.... unfairly lol... and what Adventurewoman said.

adventurewomen
06-11-2014, 05:07 PM
Well you know, sometimes one just does not like something. The default stance doesn’t have to be “I LOVE HER” until there’s an explanation for not doing so. I just couldn’t relate to her and that’s not cause I’m a guy and she’s a girl. But she just wasn’t very appealing and I said it could be the fact that the game was small and not too detailed but it could be just her not being relatable to me.
Well Lara Croft is a female and has millions of male fans who can relate to her struggle...

If you could relate to Aveline's struggle in life you would have understood her better..


Hence, why I stated that in the post... It's good to have different opinions but the thing is people are using comparisons to other characters or are so used to an omnipresent kind of character that they don't like another.

... And they're probably rude and bratty because of the way other people treat him.... unfairly lol
Totally Agreed! Well Said!

RinoTheBouncer
06-11-2014, 05:09 PM
Well Lara Croft is a female and has millions of male fans who can relate to her struggle...

If you could relate to Aveline's struggle in life you would have understood her better..

Lara Croft is my No.1 video game character of all time. I love her so much and I relate to every version of hers but I couldn’t feel the same connection with Aveline. It’s not a matter of guy or girl but just like how I love Ezio more than Connor and Altair and the rest.

Hans684
06-11-2014, 05:14 PM
I’m not really aiming to justify so that everybody loves Ezio and I’m completely with the idea of loving what we love without fan wares. I guess you misunderstood my thread. I have nothing against anyone who prefers Connor or Altair and I’m happy with what I’ve got with ACII.

I've read the entire thread, I get your points and everyone else's but it's all just justifications, excuses and contradictions that of course is options I respect, I'm just tired of it. As for what you are happy with in ends with AC2, not bad and it's your opinion. Thing is that not ever game, character etc...is going to be butterflies and sunshine. Stops being a fan because X game(s) etc... are disappointing? Fine it's your desistion and all that but it's reality, expecting butterflies and sunshine will lead to a lot disappointment.

Jexx21
06-11-2014, 05:14 PM
ACB marketing was heavy on the Brotherhood mechanic and the new multiplayer as well.
AC3 and AC4 had a large amount of story focused trailers.

The story hasn't lost it's focus across the games, despite what you may believe. I think your over focus on this is just because you don't like the fact that they're going with a first-person modern day view. The historical stories have been getting better with ACR, AC3, and AC4. I feel like the modern day story was great in both AC3 and AC4, and while AC4 may not provide the cliffhanger the end of the previous games did, we know that Juno is still out there, and she's looking for a host to inhabit.

I love all of the Assassins. Connor is my favorite, but I don't mind that you like Ezio the most as he was a pretty interesting character. I personally really liked AC2 and ACB and they sucked me into their worlds. I really loved Brotherhood, but it wasn't because of it's story. It was because of its gameplay mechanics, the side content, and the open world of Rome. I liked Ezio's new robes as well. But in general, the story wasn't that great and I recognize that (although I'm still adamant that Brotherhood use its side characters better than AC2 did, as they were fewer in number and had more screen time, unlike AC2 where there were so many with brief screentime).

All of the Assassin's Creed games are great fun and I love them all.

adventurewomen
06-11-2014, 05:14 PM
Lara Croft is my No.1 video game character of all time. I love her so much and I relate to every version of hers but I couldn’t feel the same connection with Aveline. It’s not a matter of guy or girl but just like how I love Ezio more than Connor and Altair and the rest.
Well you said in your previous posts the fact that your a guy and Aveline is a girl..


Well you know, sometimes one just does not like something. The default stance doesn’t have to be “I LOVE HER” until there’s an explanation for not doing so. I just couldn’t relate to her and that’s not cause I’m a guy and she’s a girl. But she just wasn’t very appealing and I said it could be the fact that the game was small and not too detailed but it could be just her not being relatable to me.

It just sounds a tiny bit of a contradiction.

SpiritOfNevaeh
06-11-2014, 05:16 PM
Well Lara Croft is a female and has millions of male fans who can relate to her struggle...

If you could relate to Aveline's struggle in life you would have understood her better..



I love Lara Croft. She was the first video game I ever played and she's my favorite [female] video game character <3

ThiagoRichter
06-11-2014, 05:17 PM
Iíve always wanted to shed some light on this subject for sometime and itís more of a critique on the evolution of the AC franchise than merely sharing my love for the Ezio saga.

Iíve encountered so many Assassinís Creed fans who criticized those of us who love the Ezio saga more than any other game and they make it sound like some sort of an obsession or a blind following, by saying ďYeah, for sure you didnít like ACIV, because Godzio isnít part of itĒ, as if itís a shame to actually like Ezioís games. Well hereís what I have to say about it. Just answer those questions and itíll make sense: are we relatives or friends with the developers of the Ezio saga? am I dating the creative director? am I being paid by the team who made those games? Did we gain any personal benefit for loving these games? the answer is no, for all those questions.

So thereís no bias, there is no obsession, thereís just a total admiration to where the story, the gameplay and to where the franchise as a whole was going. I know a lot of you have loathed AC:Revelations for some reason, but I personally consider ACII and AC:R to tie on the No.1 rank of the best AC games. I loved each second of those games and Brotherhood as well. When Iím asked to choose which one is my favorite AC game, I can point out and leave out some games, easily but with Ezioís saga, I personally donít know which one to choose unless the choice was ďAll 3 gamesĒ. The likable character, the mix between funny and serious, dark and light, action and drama was totally beautiful and very immersive.

I feel like at the times of the Ezio saga and even ACI, AC games stories really did matter, the Creed really did matter, the modern day and historical stories were walking hand in hand and there was a progress with each new game. There was a noticeable evolution and each game was promoted as a story of the Assassin and the Creed as well as a new setting for historical tourism. However, since ACIII was announced and I feel like the whole franchise started promoting itself by itís setting and new mechanics. ACIII was promoted as an explorer of the Frontier jungles and endless plains and the introduction of Naval and hunting, ACIV was promoted as a Pirates game, a naval game. And while ACIII had a really good historical and modern day story and a significant expansion to modern day missions -which I personally loved-, ACIV did not promote the story and there wasnít any story to begin with. There was so much potential for many connections to P.O.E.s and underwater locations but all the open waters were just made to make the world bigger and add more copy/paste side-missions.

Now with AC Unity, which Iím personally loving for itís breathtaking graphics that are truly next gen looking, and the massive number of NPCs, given that they wonít downgrade it with the final product, it is still being promoted as the next gen AC that has Co-op. Nothing is revealed about the story so far other than WATCH_DOGS with a stepdad rather than a niece being the victim. A larger map is being boasted about but still nothing regarding the story.

Iím not here to criticize AC:Unity and Iím personally excited to see what itís made of but Iím only reviewing the evolution of the series as a whole and explaining why Ezioís saga remains No.1 for many fans and those fans arenít just delusional kids who liked the fact that there was a sex scene in the ACII and AC:B, but rather people who invested enough time understanding the puzzles, the glyphs, the rifts, the story as a whole and found something special in it rather than just the fancy new mechanics and graphics.

I personally believe that the formula that made ACII happen is something Ubisoft will never be able to repeat. It was a mixture, original at the time and very entertaining and unless they revert back to the good story-telling and connectivity, either by a reboot or some alternate possibility timeline for the games, they will always base their success on mainstream settings, fancy new weapons and multiplayer, which is now promoting as a main part of the story campaign as well.

It is quite evident that when they made Altair, they made him dark, mysterious, powerful, light, a true blade in the crowd, the gained a lot of success but then, when they were still innovative, they created a different type of character who is Ezio, he was even more admired by the public and when they brought a new one with ACIII, the response was mixed. I personally loved Connor but many did not. So since that day, they tried replicating Ezio and they could not get close to how well-received and inspirational he was. Edward is my second favorite Assassin after Ezio but it was obvious that they wanted to make him Ezio II and that didnít work very well and now Arno also gives me that vibe, even though not much has been revealed about him.

So my point is that Ubisoft is clearly trying hard to repeat the Ezio saga without letting you notice that and at the same time, theyíre putting way too much mechanisms into the new games that the story, the Assassins and their Creed as well as the Templar order are all taking the backseat and becoming more of a context than an actual evolving story like a T.V. series which is what it was back with Ezioís saga and even ACI and ACIII. The connectivity is fading away, gradually and noticeably and I personally feel that the games became way too crowded with mechanics that they need to be reset to something perhaps from ancient times where we have a light assassin with a simple dagger and rely mostly on skill than the variety of weapons, recruits and mechanics.

Knowing fans of the various forms of art, and since video gaming is an art, just like films, books, music, paintings..etc. I donít see how the reaction would be so different from their respective fans. Many singers create a song that because an international hit and everybody goes so crazy about it, for some reason and then when the artist creates something different, they donít embrace it like they did and when they try to replicate the past success, it doesnít work either. Sometimes itís the fans being too hard to let go or too hard to convince with something new and sometimes itís just the lack of originality.

Ubisoft is still missing the point that once upon a time, when AC games were so iconic and unforgettable, much more than the last 3 entries was because the games had game play AND a story and the story was well written and connected and the cliffhangers gave an excuse for the franchise to become annualized, not to mention how modern day and historical settings were going hand in hand and both stories matters. Iím not saying ACIII, ACIV and AC:U did not/will not sell well but Iím saying that regarding lasting appeal and being memorable and iconic, the last iconic AC based on a consensus from fans was AC2 and ACB. Many loved ACIII and AC:R, I adore both of them but they still received mixed reviews, regardless of sales.

Feel free to discuss...

CLARIFICATION: I adore every single Assassin so far. Ezio just happened to by my No.1 so donít take what I wrote above as a way to show that Connor sucks or Edward sucks or whatever nor to start a fan wars thread instead of a discussion about the evolution of the games. I love them all. My least favorite is Aveline, though and thatís probably due to her role not being so big on a major console.

Really good, mature and very well put post. :D

Jexx21
06-11-2014, 05:20 PM
my favorite female game character is Commander Shepard.

I also love Lara Croft from the new Tomb Raider (not the older ones).

LatinaC09
06-11-2014, 05:21 PM
AC2 was just such a magnificent game. It wasn't just Ezio that made AC2 though! It was the Time Period, the music, the locations, the characters and so much more. To me AC2 is the perfect example of how you improve on everything from a series (AC1) and deliver one hell of an experience. Honestly I play that game now and I'm still impressed.

RinoTheBouncer
06-11-2014, 05:22 PM
I've read the entire thread, I get your points and everyone else's but it's all just justifications, excuses and contradictions that of course is options I respect, I'm just tired of it. As for what you are happy with in ends with AC2, not bad and it's your opinion. Thing is that not ever game, character etc...is going to be butterflies and sunshine. Stops being a fan because X game(s) etc... are disappointing? Fine it's your desistion and all that but it's reality, expecting butterflies and sunshine will lead to a lot disappointment.

I can only speak for myself and what I said. I don’t intend to explain myself but more like discuss the changes and evolution in AC series and also responding to the people who actually feel offended that I or someone else have another favorite character than they do. I don’t care who loves which character and I wish people become more understanding to the fact that these are all personal favorites and not a single character will be everyone’s favorite.


ACB marketing was heavy on the Brotherhood mechanic and the new multiplayer as well.
AC3 and AC4 had a large amount of story focused trailers.

The story hasn't lost it's focus across the games, despite what you may believe. I think your over focus on this is just because you don't like the fact that they're going with a first-person modern day view. The historical stories have been getting better with ACR, AC3, and AC4. I feel like the modern day story was great in both AC3 and AC4, and while AC4 may not provide the cliffhanger the end of the previous games did, we know that Juno is still out there, and she's looking for a host to inhabit.

I love all of the Assassins. Connor is my favorite, but I don't mind that you like Ezio the most as he was a pretty interesting character. I personally really liked AC2 and ACB and they sucked me into their worlds. I really loved Brotherhood, but it wasn't because of it's story. It was because of its gameplay mechanics, the side content, and the open world of Rome. I liked Ezio's new robes as well. But in general, the story wasn't that great and I recognize that (although I'm still adamant that Brotherhood use its side characters better than AC2 did, as they were fewer in number and had more screen time, unlike AC2 where there were so many with brief screentime).

All of the Assassin's Creed games are great fun and I love them all.

I do agree that the change in the modern day story completely changed my perspective towards AC games. To me, I don’t like historical games much but I only liked AC since day one because of the modern day and First Civ. stuff so half-as*ing both in ACIV felt like taking away the reasons that made me love the game. Let’s admit that AC’s been focusing more on historical tourism and historical GTA style more than story since ACIII. ACIII brought great modern day missions but ACIV and this one, obviously feels like a standalone story occurring in the same universe with some easter eggs to the modern day story.

Regarding Ezio. It’s just happened that his games included both the interesting modern day that I loved, the connectivity in story and the character that I love so much so it was a mixture of many things that I liked and the idea of annualizing the series and the cliffhangers fit together cause they felt like a T.V. show that we anticipate eagerly to see what’s gonna happen. Now, the whole focus is how awesome the weapons look, what well-known city and characters are we gonna see and what new mechanisms are we gonna use.

I doubt Ubisoft really cares about the Juno plot or the modern day thing anymore nor the connectivity between games. That’s why AC Initiates was created to make modern day a written story instead of working hard on making real gameplay for it.

I don’t hate any AC game but I have my most favorites and my least favorites. ACIV had the best gameplay and a great character. It’s just that it’s place in the AC universe feels more like a spin-off than a sequel to a game that ending with deciding the fate of the world and unleashing a 75k old goddess.


AC2 was just such a magnificent game. It wasn't just Ezio that made AC2 though! It was the Time Period, the music, the locations, the characters and so much more. To me AC2 is the perfect example of how you improve on everything from a series (AC1) and deliver one hell of an experience. Honestly I play that game now and I'm still impressed.

Two thumbs up to this.

I got into AC since the very first one and before even knowing Ezio since I was only in the first few missions, I noticed the improvements and I said exactly what you said about how they improved things in ACI with ACII.


my favorite female game character is Commander Shepard.

I also love Lara Croft from the new Tomb Raider (not the older ones).

Male Shepard, Lara Croft and Ezio Auditore top all the lists for me <3

Jexx21
06-11-2014, 05:32 PM
You see, I still feel like the stories are all interconnected. Sure, they may have dropped the Subject 16 plot (that I'm still not entirely convinced that they did because his prophecy matches up with the modern day events of AC3 except for the son and sun comments), but I overall feel like AC4 was very much a continuation, and AC4 also provided much needed exposition and exploration of the lore.

Think of it this way: The AC series is still continuing like a TV series, but the modern day in AC4 was more like a filler episode (these are more well known in Anime, but they exist in normal TV series as well).

Kakuzu745
06-11-2014, 10:39 PM
I have to agree that at some point they need to replicate the success of what they achieved in the Ezio saga but I do not necessarily think they have to use the exact same formula. Agreed, they need to recover the focus in the Assassins and the creed but maybe that is also part of the whole story...how the creed starts to fade and there is only a couple of lonely assassins trying to stop the templars.

Anyway, I do want them to keep connecting the stories and I hope Unity takes a step forwards when it comes to that because I have to agree with the OP that the Ezio saga did that perfectly. In my opinion the Ezio saga and ACI were about the story of the creed in a historical setup...in the other hand ACIII and ACIV were more about the historical event itself and a you just happened to use a character there. I hope Unity leans more towards the former or at least a mid point.

What I really liked about Unity so far: I feel Arno somehow resembles Altair in the way he acts...and I just happen to love Altair.

RinoTheBouncer
06-12-2014, 11:29 AM
You see, I still feel like the stories are all interconnected. Sure, they may have dropped the Subject 16 plot (that I'm still not entirely convinced that they did because his prophecy matches up with the modern day events of AC3 except for the son and sun comments), but I overall feel like AC4 was very much a continuation, and AC4 also provided much needed exposition and exploration of the lore.

Think of it this way: The AC series is still continuing like a TV series, but the modern day in AC4 was more like a filler episode (these are more well known in Anime, but they exist in normal TV series as well).

Well I’m still hoping that ACIV was a “filler episode” and I hope that the Subject 16 plot ain’t getting dropped. As I said, I got into the franchise for modern day, first civ. and the conspiracies and connectivity so if that goes away, it will be just another historical GTA for me and I never really got into historical nor GTA style. That’s why I’m trying hard to make my voice heard so that maybe, just maybe, they won’t turn a game to something totally different from the form that it made it as successful as it is today.

I think the main reason why people still buy AC games, like me for example, is that they’re still hoping a better “episode” will come. I doubt that if AC would’ve been as successful had it started with ACIV rather than ACI and ACII.


I have to agree that at some point they need to replicate the success of what they achieved in the Ezio saga but I do not necessarily think they have to use the exact same formula. Agreed, they need to recover the focus in the Assassins and the creed but maybe that is also part of the whole story...how the creed starts to fade and there is only a couple of lonely assassins trying to stop the templars.

Anyway, I do want them to keep connecting the stories and I hope Unity takes a step forwards when it comes to that because I have to agree with the OP that the Ezio saga did that perfectly. In my opinion the Ezio saga and ACI were about the story of the creed in a historical setup...in the other hand ACIII and ACIV were more about the historical event itself and a you just happened to use a character there. I hope Unity leans more towards the former or at least a mid point.

What I really liked about Unity so far: I feel Arno somehow resembles Altair in the way he acts...and I just happen to love Altair.

Thank you very much. My thoughts exactly!

Shahkulu101
06-12-2014, 12:37 PM
Once again - only Revelations of the Ezio trilogy was about the Creed. AC2 was a totally personal revenge story that didn't reflect the meaning of the Creed in any way, and ACB was a one-dimensional Disney film. I'll admit that in ACIII (not ACIV...I can't even remember more than one historical event) that the history stuff was a bit gung-ho but the overall narrative focuses on the Creed.

RinoTheBouncer
06-12-2014, 12:50 PM
Once again - only Revelations of the Ezio trilogy was about the Creed. AC2 was a totally personal revenge story that didn't reflect the meaning of the Creed in any way, and ACB was a one-dimensional Disney film. I'll admit that in ACIII (not ACIV...I can't even remember more than one historical event) that the history stuff was a bit gung-ho but the overall narrative focuses on the Creed.

ACII could’ve started as a quest for vengeance but no one can deny that we felt like an Assassin. The story was about the character and how he used the Creed to accomplish what he wants and also work for the greater good. The historical setting was a background, like those videos they play on screens in concerts, they’re not the show nor the song but they decorate it and set the atmosphere. While ACIII and ACIV, they were all about the historical event, the historical figures and there was just some character you are told to believe to be an Assassin and some people killing one another in the background that you are told to believe to be the Assassins and Templars who had the front seats in ACI to AC:R.

Farlander1991
06-12-2014, 01:05 PM
I never got why AC2 is considered to have history in the background as AC1 does.

In AC2 we're shaping the political image of the whole Italy. The country literally wouldn't have been the same if it were not for Ezio, that's as far from 'background' as possible. The saving grace of AC2 is that it wasn't as well documented as the AC3 stuff (with the exception of attack on Lorenzo Medici), so they took some liberties, but still encompassed a lot of events.

AC2 also has got characters who are introduced just for the sake of adding a historical character. Like Machiavelli, for example. He plays absolutely no purpose in the story, suddenly is the defacto leader of the Assassin Order (despite being born long after Ezio). Why the hell is he an Assassin, really? (and all the other side-characters too, to be honest, their inclusion in the Assassin Order is absolutely unnecessary).

Shahkulu101
06-12-2014, 01:05 PM
ACII could’ve started as a quest for vengeance but no one can deny that we felt like an Assassin. The story was about the character and how he used the Creed to accomplish what he wants and also work for the greater good. The historical setting was a background, like those videos they play on screens in concerts, they’re not the show nor the song but they decorate it and set the atmosphere. While ACIII and ACIV, they were all about the historical event, the historical figures and there was just some character you are told to believe to be an Assassin and some people killing one another in the background that you are told to believe to be the Assassins and Templars who had the front seats in ACI to AC:R.

How does he use the Creed exactly? Because to me it seemed like he killed those people with no other purpose other than to avenge his family. Hell, he even compromises the Creed and the Brotherhood when he spares Rodrigo for his own vain pride. The Templars in AC3 were some of the most compelling and the Brotherhood was decimated, so I don't see where you're going with that. In ACIV the Brotherhood has a strong presence throughout - this time with an entire hideout in the vain of Masyaf castle. What makes you think they are fake and not the ones from ACI-ACR? You claim the protagonists from AC3 and 4 are superficial - but their stories explore the meaning of the Creed in a way deeper than Ezio's.

Connor represents what the Assassin's stand for: an ongoing conviction for freedom and justice that comes with ones own compromise and suffering.

Edward - long story short - eventually embraces the Creed after the destructiveness of blindly following 'Everything is Permitted'.

SpiritOfNevaeh
06-12-2014, 02:37 PM
Also to add to my previous statement, pretty much summed up by somebody else:

"I’m totally guilty of writing thousand word essays defending a fictional character. I totally understand the reactions too since I’m on the side of most Connor fans: if a character has very vocal hatedom, the fans are more vocal and push back.

The thing is, we need to sit back and analyze why people hate him. Instead of defaulting to accusing people of internalized racism or whatever, can we pleaseacknowledge the fact that ACIII was a very, very flawed game that effectively ruined Connor’s characterization?

I’ve said this countless times: Ubisoft’s decisions regarding the mission structure, the Homestead missions, and the effect of many teams working on a single game resulted in a disjointed narrative that undoubtedly misrepresented what Connor was envisioned to be. Most Connor fans don’t seem to want to acknowledge that Connor’s game was frankly of a much lower quality than the other entries, which may cause people to shift those negative feelings onto a complex and challenging character.

That is why people hate him, they got an incomplete picture of his character because of bad game design and Ubisoft’s mismanagement. In fact, I recall that during the hype before ACIII’s release, almost everyone was excited to see the fruits of Ubisoft’s research, and to play as a Native American character. The marketing didn’t help either, it was so disjointed and far removed from the game’s actual tone it wasn’t even funny."

SixKeys
06-12-2014, 04:07 PM
Also to add to my previous statement, pretty much summed up by somebody else:

"I’m totally guilty of writing thousand word essays defending a fictional character. I totally understand the reactions too since I’m on the side of most Connor fans: if a character has very vocal hatedom, the fans are more vocal and push back.

The thing is, we need to sit back and analyze why people hate him. Instead of defaulting to accusing people of internalized racism or whatever, can we pleaseacknowledge the fact that ACIII was a very, very flawed game that effectively ruined Connor’s characterization?

I’ve said this countless times: Ubisoft’s decisions regarding the mission structure, the Homestead missions, and the effect of many teams working on a single game resulted in a disjointed narrative that undoubtedly misrepresented what Connor was envisioned to be. Most Connor fans don’t seem to want to acknowledge that Connor’s game was frankly of a much lower quality than the other entries, which may cause people to shift those negative feelings onto a complex and challenging character.

That is why people hate him, they got an incomplete picture of his character because of bad game design and Ubisoft’s mismanagement. In fact, I recall that during the hype before ACIII’s release, almost everyone was excited to see the fruits of Ubisoft’s research, and to play as a Native American character. The marketing didn’t help either, it was so disjointed and far removed from the game’s actual tone it wasn’t even funny."

I didn't hate Connor, but I disliked him mainly because of his voice. Had he gotten a better voice actor, I'm almost certain I would have liked him more. Well, that and fixing some of the inconsistencies of his character. But the voice was the main annoyance to me.

Kakuzu745
06-12-2014, 04:39 PM
Once again - only Revelations of the Ezio trilogy was about the Creed. AC2 was a totally personal revenge story that didn't reflect the meaning of the Creed in any way, and ACB was a one-dimensional Disney film. I'll admit that in ACIII (not ACIV...I can't even remember more than one historical event) that the history stuff was a bit gung-ho but the overall narrative focuses on the Creed.

I have to say I agree/disagree with you. While AC II might not focus that much in the creed and it might be indeed a revenge story, I think that when you take a look a the story you should focus in the Ezio saga as a whole. The Ezio saga was more about the creed than anything else because you have the intro story (AC2) where the guy is forced to grow up and learn the ways of the assassin...all of this while shaping what Italy is now. Then you have Brotherhood where he rebuilds the Brotherhood and finally Revelations which is kind of the last quest of the Grand Master.

Do not get me wrong, I liked AC3...watching all those battles take place while you chased your target was awesome but precisely because I like Connor, I would prefer Ubi to make Connor a more active part of the creed and be a more influential character in the story of the creed. I hope they correct that with Arno.

Shahkulu101
06-12-2014, 04:45 PM
I have to say I agree/disagree with you. While AC II might not focus that much in the creed and it might be indeed a revenge story, I think that when you take a look a the story you should focus in the Ezio saga as a whole. The Ezio saga was more about the creed than anything else because you have the intro story (AC2) where the guy is forced to grow up and learn the ways of the assassin...all of this while shaping what Italy is now. Then you have Brotherhood where he rebuilds the Brotherhood and finally Revelations which is kind of the last quest of the Grand Master.

Do not get me wrong, I liked AC3...watching all those battles take place while you chased your target was awesome but precisely because I like Connor, I would prefer Ubi to make Connor a more active part of the creed and be a more influential character in the story of the creed. I hope they correct that with Arno.

I...I just explained Connor's importance to the Creed.

Again: Connor's quest for ultimate freedom represents the futility of the Assassin's goal, but his willingness to continue and the compromises he makes highlights the conviction the Creed's message perpetuates. That pretty much the Assassin's, they'll preserve freedom for better or worse as the other possibility - complete control - is not an option.

JustPlainQuirky
06-12-2014, 04:53 PM
I like all the assassins. Theyre my babies.

least fav is edward tho

adventurewomen
06-12-2014, 05:38 PM
I like all the assassins. Theyre my babies.

least fav is edward tho
That's interesting.. I prefer Edward more than Ezio. ;)

I-Like-Pie45
06-12-2014, 05:42 PM
I LOVE YOU ADVENTUREWOMEN

WILL YOU MARRY ME?

----

l, RC

DinoSteve1
06-12-2014, 05:45 PM
Edward > all tbh then Ezio > Adewale > Aveline > all random npc Assassins > Conor


I LOVE YOU ADVENTUREWOMEN

WILL YOU MARRY ME?

----

l, RC

Weren't you marrying Mayrice earlier?

Love triangle?

adventurewomen
06-12-2014, 05:47 PM
I LOVE YOU ADVENTUREWOMEN

WILL YOU MARRY ME?

----

l, RC
Hmmm.. I,R,C??

I aRe Connor? < If you are Connor then I'll marry you.. xD

Jexx21
06-12-2014, 05:47 PM
Also to add to my previous statement, pretty much summed up by somebody else:

"Iím totally guilty of writing thousand word essays defending a fictional character. I totally understand the reactions too since Iím on the side of most Connor fans: if a character has very vocal hatedom, the fans are more vocal and push back.

The thing is, we need to sit back and analyze why people hate him. Instead of defaulting to accusing people of internalized racism or whatever, can we pleaseacknowledge the fact that ACIII was a very, very flawed game that effectively ruined Connorís characterization?

Iíve said this countless times: Ubisoftís decisions regarding the mission structure, the Homestead missions, and the effect of many teams working on a single game resulted in a disjointed narrative that undoubtedly misrepresented what Connor was envisioned to be. Most Connor fans donít seem to want to acknowledge that Connorís game was frankly of a much lower quality than the other entries, which may cause people to shift those negative feelings onto a complex and challenging character.

That is why people hate him, they got an incomplete picture of his character because of bad game design and Ubisoftís mismanagement. In fact, I recall that during the hype before ACIIIís release, almost everyone was excited to see the fruits of Ubisoftís research, and to play as a Native American character. The marketing didnít help either, it was so disjointed and far removed from the gameís actual tone it wasnít even funny."

AC3 was actually a good game with some bad side missions and bad story execution. I still say it's better than the games before it purely because of the redone mechanics, the setting, the character, and the heart of the story, as well as certain side missions (such as the Homestead and Naval missions).

I-Like-Pie45
06-12-2014, 05:54 PM
Hmmm.. I,R,C??

I aRe Connor? < If you are Connor then I'll marry you.. xD

IF CONNOR IS 5'8 AND YELLOW, I GUESS I AM CONNOR

----

l, the RC

JustPlainQuirky
06-12-2014, 05:56 PM
it wasnt Pie who was marrying me.

And Edward was just too much of a...hmm.....bafoon/jerk imo.

Not really but those are the best words I can think of. Not a fan of his incentive either.

DinoSteve1
06-12-2014, 05:57 PM
it wasnt Pie who was marrying me.

And Edward was just too much of a...hmm.....bafoon/jerk imo.

Not really but those are the best words I can think of. Not a fan of his incentive either.

Lets be fair he became a decent chap in the end.

RinoTheBouncer
06-12-2014, 06:03 PM
How does he use the Creed exactly? Because to me it seemed like he killed those people with no other purpose other than to avenge his family. Hell, he even compromises the Creed and the Brotherhood when he spares Rodrigo for his own vain pride. The Templars in AC3 were some of the most compelling and the Brotherhood was decimated, so I don't see where you're going with that. In ACIV the Brotherhood has a strong presence throughout - this time with an entire hideout in the vain of Masyaf castle. What makes you think they are fake and not the ones from ACI-ACR? You claim the protagonists from AC3 and 4 are superficial - but their stories explore the meaning of the Creed in a way deeper than Ezio's.

Connor represents what the Assassin's stand for: an ongoing conviction for freedom and justice that comes with ones own compromise and suffering.

Edward - long story short - eventually embraces the Creed after the destructiveness of blindly following 'Everything is Permitted'.

I canít explain why I like some character over the other or why a game felt better than the other. But the totally mixture of modern day + historical + First civ plus the way all that direct felt much better, to me. But I canít tell you that Ezioís story detailed an entire life, a complete story from birth to death (if you include Embers), and weíve learned about the mythology of the games, and the story proceeded forwards with ACI and Ezioís Trilogy much more than it did with Edwards, for example. Had Connor and Edward received a fully story, one couldíve been immersed enough into their lives and felt the same way I did with Ezio.

Ezio became an Assassin to avenge his family, but there was much more to his story than that and many stuff occurred from Desmondís story to the First Civ. to what Desmond learned about the Creed to the puzzles left by Subject 16 left us, than the last 2 games offered.

Youíre only looking at ACII as the game of Ezio, while Iím looking at it as a whole package with every single thing that evolved and everything weíve learned. I have nothing against Connorís story. In fact, the story was incomplete and I cannot judge it till it is. But Connor was the only Assassin and itís not like he wouldíve become one if it wasnít to avenge his village, so thereís another vengeance-driven protagonist. Edward isnít even an Assassin and the game ended only when things started to get interesting and the first thing I posted here, on these forums when I finished ACIV was ďGimme another Edward game, pleaseĒ. Because I wanted to know more and I loved the guy.

But so far, only Ezioís saga was a complete bundle with so much progress and knowledge about the AC Universe in general, not just one Assassinís story.

Shahkulu101
06-12-2014, 06:07 PM
I can’t explain why I like some character over the other or why a game felt better than the other. But the totally mixture of modern day + historical + First civ plus the way all that direct felt much better, to me. But I can’t tell you that Ezio’s story detailed an entire life, a complete story from birth to death (if you include Embers), and we’ve learned about the mythology of the games, and the story proceeded forwards with ACI and Ezio’s Trilogy much more than it did with Edwards, for example. Had Connor and Edward received a fully story, one could’ve been immersed enough into their lives and felt the same way I did with Ezio.

Ezio became an Assassin to avenge his family, but there was much more to his story than that and many stuff occurred from Desmond’s story to the First Civ. to what Desmond learned about the Creed to the puzzles left by Subject 16 left us, than the last 2 games offered.

You’re only looking at ACII as the game of Ezio, while I’m looking at it as a whole package with every single thing that evolved and everything we’ve learned. I have nothing against Connor’s story. In fact, the story was incomplete and I cannot judge it till it is. But Connor was the only Assassin and it’s not like he would’ve become one if it wasn’t to avenge his village, so there’s another vengeance-driven protagonist. Edward isn’t even an Assassin and the game ended only when things started to get interesting and the first thing I posted here, on these forums when I finished ACIV was “Gimme another Edward game, please”. Because I wanted to know more and I loved the guy.

But so far, only Ezio’s saga was a complete bundle with so much progress and knowledge about the AC Universe in general, not just one Assassin’s story.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I will say one thing though, just because Edward wasn't an Assassin doesn't mean his story had nothing to do with the Creed. Not directly of course, but the story it self reflects the Creed's interpretations.

pirate1802
06-12-2014, 06:28 PM
Assassins Creed IV is the living embodiment of the Creed. What it means for nothing to be true and everything to be permitted. The transformation from Edward the "everything is permitted right?" guy to the "maybe it signals towards a deeper wisdom" guy was the journey when the player sees a live example of what really means to be following the Creed and what the dangers of misinterpreting it are. . I'm sorry but i laugh a little when I see people say it had nothing to do with the Creed. Its basically the Creed in action.

/randomrant

Kakuzu745
06-12-2014, 06:31 PM
I...I just explained Connor's importance to the Creed.

Again: Connor's quest for ultimate freedom represents the futility of the Assassin's goal, but his willingness to continue and the compromises he makes highlights the conviction the Creed's message perpetuates. That pretty much the Assassin's, they'll preserve freedom for better or worse as the other possibility - complete control - is not an option.

I am not talking about what Connor represents or what he stands for...I am saying Connor feels like an assassin that happened to be in the middle of a big historical event and was more involved with that than with the Creed itself. Doe she represent the assassins way? Maybe...thing is, unlike Altair and Ezio, he does not feel like a Grand Master Assassin or an important assassin or a pivotal character for the creed...he felt like an important part of that particular historical event.

Anyway, as you said in another post maybe we will have to agree to disagree.

I just wish Ubi would explore Connor's involvement with the Creed more and establish him as the Grand Master or something of this big new nation. They show him as such an important figure in the Independence and it just feels right to have the next step where he arises and takes the Creed to a whole new level in US. In my opinion AC3 was the same as AC2 in that it was an introduction to a character to the world of the assassins, however, since Connor did not get a sequel, it feels now that the importance of the historical event outweighs the importance of the Creed. How can they correct it? Give him a sequel.

Shahkulu101
06-12-2014, 06:41 PM
I am not talking about what Connor represents or what he stands for...I am saying Connor feels like an assassin that happened to be in the middle of a big historical event and was more involved with that than with the Creed itself. Doe she represent the assassins way? Maybe...thing is, unlike Altair and Ezio, he does not feel like a Grand Master Assassin or an important assassin or a pivotal character for the creed...he felt like an important part of that particular historical event.

Anyway, as you said in another post maybe we will have to agree to disagree.

I just wish Ubi would explore Connor's involvement with the Creed more and establish him as the Grand Master or something of this big new nation. They show him as such an important figure in the Independence and it just feels right to have the next step where he arises and takes the Creed to a whole new level in US. In my opinion AC3 was the same as AC2 in that it was an introduction to a character to the world of the assassins, however, since Connor did not get a sequel, it feels now that the importance of the historical event outweighs the importance of the Creed. How can they correct it? Give him a sequel.

Yes but Connor represents and stands for the Creed. That's what he embodies. Therefore he and what he represents - and ergo AC3 - have a direct correlation with the Creed itself. The historical events don't change that. And why wasn't Ezio taking it to a whole new level when he single handedly hunted down the Borgia? - one of the most influential families in Italian history. Double standards.


Assassins Creed IV is the living embodiment of the Creed. What it means for nothing to be true and everything to be permitted. The transformation from Edward the "everything is permitted right?" guy to the "maybe it signals towards a deeper wisdom" guy was the journey when the player sees a live example of what really means to be following the Creed and what the dangers of misinterpreting it are. . I'm sorry but i laugh a little when I see people say it had nothing to do with the Creed. Its basically the Creed in action.

/randomrant

Word.

Kakuzu745
06-12-2014, 07:31 PM
Yes but Connor represents and stands for the Creed. That's what he embodies. Therefore he and what he represents - and ergo AC3 - have a direct correlation with the Creed itself. The historical events don't change that. And why wasn't Ezio taking it to a whole new level when he single handedly hunted down the Borgia? - one of the most influential families in Italian history. Double standards.
Word.

Again yes...he represents and stands for the creed but then again it does not feel like a pivotal character for the creed. As I said, we will have to agree to disagree.

Why do you keep bringing up Ezio? It is not even my favorite assassin...all I am saying is that Connor needs to be more developed.

lothario-da-be
06-12-2014, 07:36 PM
Most people say ACR Ezio was the best, and that is exactly why Connor should get a sequel. He only got 9 sequences to devellop his character in ac3. And after the events of ac3 his life and personality must have changed a lot. I am not one of those fangirls screaming CONNAISDABEST, and I can realy understand not everyone liked him so much. But he does have a big fanbase. And even a lot of people who didn't like him in ac3 could like him in a sequel if he is more mature, wiser, less naive and is more talkative. Maybe by giving him a family he could open up completely. Also if we spend more time with him people can get more attached to him.

Shahkulu101
06-12-2014, 07:41 PM
Again yes...he represents and stands for the creed but then again it does not feel like a pivotal character for the creed. As I said, we will have to agree to disagree.

Why do you keep bringing up Ezio? It is not even my favorite assassin...all I am saying is that Connor needs to be more developed.

The Creed is just an idea, not an existing physical thing. He couldn't have been more pivotal to the Creed as how does one pay dividends to a philosophy? What matters is how his story explored the meaning of the Creed. If you mean the Assassins in general, then Connor was incredibly pivotal. The brotherhood was nothing, this guy rised up to hunt down and eradicate Templar influence and succeeded and not only that but he rebuilt the American Brotherhood from the ground up. You don't need the title of mentor for your contributions to be meaningful. The actual structure of the order dwindles In importance as time goes on, as the Assassins realize how superficial it is. That's why the Modern Brotherhood don't really have ranks, just usually one guy who keeps it all together.

GunnerGalactico
06-12-2014, 07:50 PM
Most people say ACR Ezio was the best, and that is exactly why Connor should get a sequel. He only got 9 sequences to devellop his character in ac3. And after the events of ac3 his life and personality must have changed a lot. I am not one of those fangirls screaming CONNAISDABEST, and I can realy understand not everyone liked him so much. But he does have a big fanbase. And even a lot of people who didn't like him in ac3 could like him in a sequel if he is more mature, wiser, less naive and is more talkative. Maybe by giving him a family he could open up completely. Also if we spend more time with him people can get more attached to him.

I agree with this. I'm not those type of fangirls, infact I didn't take to him at first... it took a while for me to like him but he grew on me when the game progressed. I think he should have a sequel and if he does... we might see a different side to him.

Kakuzu745
06-12-2014, 08:09 PM
The Creed is just an idea, not an existing physical thing. He couldn't have been more pivotal to the Creed as how does one pay dividends to a philosophy? What matters is how his story explored the meaning of the Creed. If you mean the Assassins in general, then Connor was incredibly pivotal. The brotherhood was nothing, this guy rised up to hunt down and eradicate Templar influence and succeeded and not only that but he rebuilt the American Brotherhood from the ground up. You don't need the title of mentor for your contributions to be meaningful. The actual structure of the order dwindles In importance as time goes on, as the Assassins realize how superficial it is. That's why the Modern Brotherhood don't really have ranks, just usually one guy who keeps it all together.

As I said, the key thing about Connor is that he needs a sequel...otherwise for me it will feel like an incomplete character which could have been more relevant. You say that he rebuilt the brotherhood which is true but it actually did not feel that way because it was kind of superficial, not really developed in any sort of way more than to give a story to an implemented mechanic (calling the assassins). My argument more than if he represented the creed or not is that the character himself could have been more fleshed out and developed, however, Ubi chose to do this with the historical event and not the character.

pirate1802
06-12-2014, 08:27 PM
I feel that we'll see/hear about Connor in ACU.

Sesheenku
06-13-2014, 01:06 AM
Let me first give my opinion on Arno so far, he actually reminds me more of Altair so far, even his physical build and hood are highly similar.

Anyways, my favorite AC is a tie between AC2 and Brotherhood.

That said AC2 is my favorite because

1 -> It fixed any and all issues I had with AC1

2 -> It didn't just innovate and improve, it gave us fans exactly what we wanted

3 -> The cities were large and beautiful and had very different feels

4 -> Tons of new features and additions to the combat, none of these features felt pointless.

5 -> Satisfying lengthy story (although I agree with most people that Venice started to decline near the end where it was basically just help the thieves, then the *****s, then the mercenaries)

This is personally all I need, don't get me wrong I like Ezio and his games are my favorite but it's not Ezio himself that makes me love the game

Now let's examine the subsequent games and from here on out I'll have a list of pros and cons.

Brotherhood

Pros

1 -> Made slight refinements to an already excellent set of systems and features

2 -> Fixed the few issues present in AC2 (Like terrible LoD textures)

3 -> Progressed Ezio as a character.

4 -> Rome is beautiful and has a fair amount of variation

5 -> Was very story driven

Cons

1 -> Didn't innovate very much

2 -> Marks the departure of a focus on assassination targets in the story

3 -> Marks the first game to begin a focus on features over the very core of the game (As in too much extra features while the game moves away from the good parts of AC/AC2

Revelations

1 -> An excellently refined combat system with enemies that needed various ways to take them out that were never too annoying. (Difficulty and annoying are different.)

2 -> Another beautiful city

3 -> An excellent refinement on the Ezio sagas extra features, particularly in the tombs

4 -> Highly story driven, more so than the other Ezio games

5 -> A good mix of slow paced missions and fast paced action missions.

Cons

1 -> Little innovation

2 -> Continues to keep focus away from assassinations and the basic core that makes up the games (abundant assassinations for example, AC2 has about 25 with all DLC I think)

AC3

Pros

1 -> A ton of new features and an innovation in climbing mechanics.

2 -> Fairly good story

3 -> Massive frontier to explore

4 -> Very heart warming homestead missions

Cons

1 -> Many features hold no weight, such as hunting, it gives you money but money is only useful for your ship and the ship missions aren't required

2 -> Crafting feature isn't particularly helpful, Connor is perfectly capable from day 1 as an assassin

3 -> Many restrictions and various ways to annoyingly instant fail

4 -> Annoyingly large amounts of guards on rooftops

5 -> Stealth was annoying as enemies could quickly alert massive amounts of guards even if you were on the roof.

I won't go into AC4 I didn't love it but I didn't despise it, I was honestly disappointed in it. Too much sailing, too little assassinations, terrible hybrid tail/eavesdrops, ridiculous stealth system of AC3 and a story that felt really disjointed with a passionless character. I like Edward but his lack of passion or motivation outside of money make it difficult to connect with him.

Dome500
06-13-2014, 01:09 AM
Ac2 is my favorite due to the gameplay improvements, the story, the atmosphere and the expansion of content. It improved on a lot of AC1.
That being said AC1 has my favorite story so far and my favorite character is still Altair.

I agree that Arno seems more like Atair. I think he could be like a mix of Ezios charisma, Connors sense for justice and Altairs devotion and cynism.

RinoTheBouncer
06-13-2014, 03:31 PM
Let me first give my opinion on Arno so far, he actually reminds me more of Altair so far, even his physical build and hood are highly similar.

Anyways, my favorite AC is a tie between AC2 and Brotherhood.

That said AC2 is my favorite because

1 -> It fixed any and all issues I had with AC1

2 -> It didn't just innovate and improve, it gave us fans exactly what we wanted

3 -> The cities were large and beautiful and had very different feels

4 -> Tons of new features and additions to the combat, none of these features felt pointless.

5 -> Satisfying lengthy story (although I agree with most people that Venice started to decline near the end where it was basically just help the thieves, then the *****s, then the mercenaries)

This is personally all I need, don't get me wrong I like Ezio and his games are my favorite but it's not Ezio himself that makes me love the game

Now let's examine the subsequent games and from here on out I'll have a list of pros and cons.

Brotherhood

Pros

1 -> Made slight refinements to an already excellent set of systems and features

2 -> Fixed the few issues present in AC2 (Like terrible LoD textures)

3 -> Progressed Ezio as a character.

4 -> Rome is beautiful and has a fair amount of variation

5 -> Was very story driven

Cons

1 -> Didn't innovate very much

2 -> Marks the departure of a focus on assassination targets in the story

3 -> Marks the first game to begin a focus on features over the very core of the game (As in too much extra features while the game moves away from the good parts of AC/AC2

Revelations

1 -> An excellently refined combat system with enemies that needed various ways to take them out that were never too annoying. (Difficulty and annoying are different.)

2 -> Another beautiful city

3 -> An excellent refinement on the Ezio sagas extra features, particularly in the tombs

4 -> Highly story driven, more so than the other Ezio games

5 -> A good mix of slow paced missions and fast paced action missions.

Cons

1 -> Little innovation

2 -> Continues to keep focus away from assassinations and the basic core that makes up the games (abundant assassinations for example, AC2 has about 25 with all DLC I think)

AC3

Pros

1 -> A ton of new features and an innovation in climbing mechanics.

2 -> Fairly good story

3 -> Massive frontier to explore

4 -> Very heart warming homestead missions

Cons

1 -> Many features hold no weight, such as hunting, it gives you money but money is only useful for your ship and the ship missions aren't required

2 -> Crafting feature isn't particularly helpful, Connor is perfectly capable from day 1 as an assassin

3 -> Many restrictions and various ways to annoyingly instant fail

4 -> Annoyingly large amounts of guards on rooftops

5 -> Stealth was annoying as enemies could quickly alert massive amounts of guards even if you were on the roof.

I won't go into AC4 I didn't love it but I didn't despise it, I was honestly disappointed in it. Too much sailing, too little assassinations, terrible hybrid tail/eavesdrops, ridiculous stealth system of AC3 and a story that felt really disjointed with a passionless character. I like Edward but his lack of passion or motivation outside of money make it difficult to connect with him.

Listen everyone, the president is speaking!
Give him a medal for his manifesto.

I totally agree with every single word.

raytrek79
06-15-2014, 02:15 AM
Yes, I love the Ezio saga, that was my introduction to AC, first I bought 2 and Brotherhood, I started 2 but decided to get 1 so I could play them sequentially, this was about the time Revelations came out, but I didn't know a re-release of 1 came with Revelations so I ended up buying both, must learn to read covers. But it is hard to pick which one is best of the saga, I think the deciding quality is the Bartolommeo quote in Brotherhood "Ezio Audetore, come in come in...I'll kill you if you don't"

But every game I've played, 1,2,B,R and 3 all feel like experiments, like UBISOFT was trial running ideas, 4 lacks that quality, and I think it is a quality in this franchise.(what I mean is it didn't feel like 4 was taking any risks, they seemed to play it safe, too safe, maybe the whole Pirate idea is a sure thing and doesn't have to push the envelope)

RinoTheBouncer
06-25-2014, 09:21 AM
Yes, I love the Ezio saga, that was my introduction to AC, first I bought 2 and Brotherhood, I started 2 but decided to get 1 so I could play them sequentially, this was about the time Revelations came out, but I didn't know a re-release of 1 came with Revelations so I ended up buying both, must learn to read covers. But it is hard to pick which one is best of the saga, I think the deciding quality is the Bartolommeo quote in Brotherhood "Ezio Audetore, come in come in...I'll kill you if you don't"

But every game I've played, 1,2,B,R and 3 all feel like experiments, like UBISOFT was trial running ideas, 4 lacks that quality, and I think it is a quality in this franchise.(what I mean is it didn't feel like 4 was taking any risks, they seemed to play it safe, too safe, maybe the whole Pirate idea is a sure thing and doesn't have to push the envelope)

I completely agree with you. Although ACIV made a drastic change, going to a 60% on waters kinda gameplay for a game that’s know for being on rooftops and buildings and they half_as*ed modern day and turned it to a character-less floating iPad, but I agree that the past games were being experimental in a good way, not in a bad way and Unity seems like it’s aiming towards becoming more focused on Co-Op. so far, all we know was that the game is in Revolutionary France and that we’ll be playing in co-op. Nothing about the story was revealed, nothing major or important, so I feel like the story is being dismembered bit by bit from the body of the franchise.

They’re trying so hard to create a historical GTA, a game for the people who crave online play and randomly roaming the location they’ve created. They put you in a location that everybody knows, show you some famous characters and monuments and that’s it. Not much focus on the story and the conspiracies like the past games. ACI and ACII did feature well-known settings and figures but they were the background and the focus was on the protagonist and the story of the Assassins and Templars. However, now it’s more like just showing off some well known figures and that’s it.

I feel like Historical Tourism, Story-telling and conspiracies were part of the past ACs, especially Ezio’s saga, but now it’s just historical tourism.

zkorejo
06-25-2014, 11:17 AM
I agree with almost everything in the OP. The one thing I agree the most with is the decline in the quality of story in AC games ever since the Ezio Saga ended.

Black Flag was good but it could have been great, IF the story was that average. ACII is my fav because it did everything right for its time.

AC3, Black Flag and Watch Dogs had made me forgot how good the story of AC games were or even POP games. Ubi needs to spend more time thinking of better stories IMO. It is a very important part of a game IMO.

Kakuzu745
06-25-2014, 08:16 PM
Now that you guys bring up AC4 I do have to say that I liked better than AC3 but is still very far from the other games. I mean, yes it is fun, sailing was cool indeed, but a whole part of the game feels like a huge filler.

Also, I finished the game feeling like they could have just released a pirates game without the name Assassins Creed and it would have been the same. I mean (SPOILER) the guy is basically an assassin only for the last sequence and it is not like you feel there is something next like with Connor (SPOILER).

I enjoyed the pirates setup but please give us more assassinations, more time in the cities you took that much time to create (meaning do not fill it with unnecessary fillers in the middle of the sea or random islands) and please use Adewale as the main character. Edward is the most unrelatable character in the whole series...I am not even sure I should call him an assassin.

Now with Adewale hey gave us a proper introduction, maybe we can spend some more time with him and who knows...make the guy some kind of mentor of the Caribbean or whatever.

Ya...I do not like Edward.

JustPlainQuirky
06-25-2014, 08:37 PM
I agree w/ OP that AC IV had hardly any story. Any good story I mean.

roostersrule2
06-25-2014, 09:16 PM
I agree w/ OP that AC IV had hardly any story. Any good story I mean.Indeed.

TO_M
06-25-2014, 10:21 PM
Like Sixkeys Ia huge part of why I didn't like Connor was due to his voice when speaking English, he just sounded like a huge bore and awkward.

And lol @ the "If you don't like Connor then you don't understand real/good/whatever characters" etc.

SpiritOfNevaeh
06-25-2014, 10:25 PM
Like Sixkeys Ia huge part of why I didn't like Connor was due to his voice when speaking English, he just sounded like a huge bore and awkward.

And lol @ the "If you don't like Connor then you don't understand real/good/whatever characters" etc.

I believe there's always room for improvement. He was just trying to sound like someone who was not used to speaking English like someone else not used to speaking another language.

TO_M
06-25-2014, 10:30 PM
I believe there's always room for improvement. He was just trying to sound like someone who was not used to speaking English like someone else not used to speaking another language.

Whatever the reason, it became really annoying real fast and hearing it made me cringe multiple times. Though I understand that other people thought he sounded fine so it's a matter of opinion.

SpiritOfNevaeh
06-25-2014, 10:33 PM
Whatever the reason, it became really annoying real fast and hearing it made me cringe multiple times. Though I understand that other people thought he sounded fine so it's a matter of opinion.

I'll admit that there were some times that he made me cringe as well, but I'm sure it's not on purpose. He was trying to make it sound realistic and there were hits and misses. =/

RinoTheBouncer
06-27-2014, 10:40 AM
I agree with almost everything in the OP. The one thing I agree the most with is the decline in the quality of story in AC games ever since the Ezio Saga ended.

Black Flag was good but it could have been great, IF the story was that average. ACII is my fav because it did everything right for its time.

AC3, Black Flag and Watch Dogs had made me forgot how good the story of AC games were or even POP games. Ubi needs to spend more time thinking of better stories IMO. It is a very important part of a game IMO.

I totally agree with you, my friend. The story is a pivotal part of video games, these days, especially this kind of video games. While past games had a famous historical setting as a background, now it feels more like everything the game has to offer with the real story given the back seat. And yes, ACII and the whole Ezio trilogy had the right proportion of everything. Hell, I even loved ACIII so much except for the badly directed ending. But ACIV, it was amazing gameplay-wise but really lame story-wise.


Now that you guys bring up AC4 I do have to say that I liked better than AC3 but is still very far from the other games. I mean, yes it is fun, sailing was cool indeed, but a whole part of the game feels like a huge filler.

Also, I finished the game feeling like they could have just released a pirates game without the name Assassins Creed and it would have been the same. I mean (SPOILER) the guy is basically an assassin only for the last sequence and it is not like you feel there is something next like with Connor (SPOILER).

I enjoyed the pirates setup but please give us more assassinations, more time in the cities you took that much time to create (meaning do not fill it with unnecessary fillers in the middle of the sea or random islands) and please use Adewale as the main character. Edward is the most unrelatable character in the whole series...I am not even sure I should call him an assassin.

Now with Adewale hey gave us a proper introduction, maybe we can spend some more time with him and who knows...make the guy some kind of mentor of the Caribbean or whatever.

Ya...I do not like Edward.

I agree with everything you said. And Ashraf Ismail said ďwe wanted to do a Pirates gameĒ and that was wrong, they shouldíve made an Assassinís Creed game, themed with the Pirates theme. Because what really happened was that the game was a pirates game and though we did learn about the Creed, it all felt like a spin off.

I honestly loved Edward a lot but I felt like the game didnít really bother exploring him. They couldíve either made another game to show him as an Assassin or they couldíve just gave ACIV a proper story that we can love and enjoy as a standalone Assassinís Creed game not a Pirates game, like ACI for example. Altair had only one game and it was rich enough, story-wise.

Farlander1991
06-27-2014, 10:50 AM
Here's a question. How is Assassin's Creed II any different from Assassin's Creed IV in the regard of when the character becomes an Assassin? Ezio is not an Assassin until almost the very end, and he doesn't care about the Assassin cause or principles until much later in his life. He's in it for revenge against people who just happened to be Templars. And when we talk Templars, the 9 nameless Savanarola's lieutenants are more fleshed out than 80% of AC2 Templars and are more ambiguous than all of them (the sequence deals with power, control, can you truly be controlled or do you follow out of your own will regardless, etc.), and all that with a few lines of dialogue.

AC4 may not be about a person who is an Assassin, but it's about the Creed. In its most general sense, AC4 covers what following the Assassin's Creed to an absolute can lead to. More so, it's a story about philosophies and finding your path in life, a theme that can be seen in almost every prominent character in AC4. From Steve Bonnet yearning for adventure, to disillusioned Hornigold wanting Order, to Roberts leading a merry life and a short one, it's about people finding a philosophy worth living by. And the Assassin's Creed, which is the title of the game, plays a very big role in this.

RinoTheBouncer
06-27-2014, 11:12 AM
Here's a question. How is Assassin's Creed II any different from Assassin's Creed IV in the regard of when the character becomes an Assassin? Ezio is not an Assassin until almost the very end, and he doesn't care about the Assassin cause or principles until much later in his life. He's in it for revenge against people who just happened to be Templars. And when we talk Templars, the 9 nameless Savanarola's lieutenants are more fleshed out than 80% of AC2 Templars and are more ambiguous than all of them (the sequence deals with power, control, can you truly be controlled or do you follow out of your own will regardless, etc.), and all that with a few lines of dialogue.

AC4 may not be about a person who is an Assassin, but it's about the Creed. In its most general sense, AC4 covers what following the Assassin's Creed to an absolute can lead to. More so, it's a story about philosophies and finding your path in life, a theme that can be seen in almost every prominent character in AC4. From Steve Bonnet yearning for adventure, to disillusioned Hornigold wanting Order, to Roberts leading a merry life and a short one, it's about people finding a philosophy worth living by. And the Assassin's Creed, which is the title of the game, plays a very big role in this.

I think ACII was new and original in it’s time and it’s not just a simple revenge story. Ezio himself wanted to quit after taking his family to the Auditore Villa, yet his uncle, Mario Auditore urged him to continue with the cause. So I believe he walked the path of the Assassins since a very early stage of his life. Yes, the main motive was revenge, and yes the induction occurred later in his life, near the end of ACII, yet I feel like we’ve explored something that was new in it’s time, new to the franchise and not to mention how it was done the right way. I don’t wanna sound biased but I can’t explain how one game is more entertaining to me than the other but I can tell you that the proportions of every element in ACII felt so right.

ACIV had a great character that I really loved so much. However, when the game ended, I was like “are we sure this is it? is a sequel happening?”, it felt like it ended the moment it became interesting. I believe if the story fast forwarded through decades and covered all of Edward’s life, my feedback would’ve been GREATLY different from what it is, now. Imagine going back to England and doing some missions and then ending either with some victory or his dead, it would’ve been much more epic. We did explore a lot of philosophies about finding your path in life, but I felt like it all happened in short segments or in later parts of the game. I felt like they needed more time. They could’ve taken advantage of the underwater thing to set a First Civ. temple there or find something that is more scary and mighty than a monitoring device which I’m 99.9% sure won’t be featured in future games.

ACII and ACIV may share some similarities but I guess ACII will always be the one that is unforgettable because it was done right, by all means. Maybe that’s just my opinion but having an identifiable modern day character, a likable historical character, a long set of missions and story as a whole and so many doors that open to bigger stories (which did happen) was much more interesting to me, despite me loving Edward so much.

I can’t say I hate ACIV because I don’t. I enjoyed the gameplay, greatly but compared to ACII or Ezio’s saga as a whole, I’d take Ezio’s saga over any other AC installment.

Farlander1991
06-27-2014, 11:31 AM
Ezio himself wanted to quit after taking his family to the Auditore Villa, yet his uncle, Mario Auditore urged him to continue with the cause.

Yes, but Ezio also thought that only one person was responsible for his father's death and his revenge was satisfied, until he learned that there's more to that.

I may seem like I'm hating on AC2 a lot here, but I think it's awesome. And it's got one of my favourite moments in the whole series, that being Ezio's speech at the Bonfire of the Vanities, really shows how much Ezio has grown as a person.

That said, I disagree that AC2 has done everything right. While AC4 might have benefited from additional missions in places, I think there's just the right amount to have everything work, while AC2 on the other hand has got too many missions and seriously needed to cut things out - the pace and plot in the second half of the game becomes just so jumbled. Everything's awesome until we get to Venice, and Venice itself is awesome in the beginning, but then...

First we have the Carnivale sequence, which is the most arbitrary possibly constructed yet. We go through the Carnevale because we can't get into the party and it's the only way to get the mask, we can't steal one cause they're numbered. But we end up stealing the mask anyway. And when we get there, Theodora is already there, WITHOUT a mask (like pretty much every other guest), and not only her, but all her courtesans as well, and the guards start searching for the guy with the mask when Dante arrives! So there wasn't any point to the mask at all! Not only that, the location selected was near water and the target was standing on the ship, so getting into the party wasn't necessary as well!

Then we have the Arsenale sequence which is just poorly scripted filler. We spend time saving people from prison not once, twice, or three times, but four. We then just walk around the city and fight, and can't kill the target until a certain moment. It's just badly designed missions.

Then we get the Apple sequence where it's the sudden last appearance of Rosa, all our allies are suddenly Assassins, and we're introduced to Machiavelli who's mentoring the Order and yet is younger than Ezio and we hadn't heard absolutely anything about him? WTF?

The second half of AC2 could really take advantage of some proper restructuring, but it just drags things along. The Templar plot to take Venice is not as gripping as the Pazzi conspiracy (nor are we connected to it that much), and it's just going through the motions while something much more interesting could be done with it.

AC4 could've benefited from a few things, sure, it's not perfect but it's insanely well crafted and I disagree that timeline-wise it should've gone beyond what we have. While fake Torres/Rogers assassinations could be some more fleshed out as missions (with investegations and stuff like per original plan), there's a flow to everything, everything is connected, every character regardless of how minor he is doesn't just appear out of nowhere, they're set up and then resolved (even people as minor as Burges and Cockram). Nobody appears out of nowhere like Machiavelli, nobody disappears into nowhere like Ugo or Rosa, prominent characters have got their little arcs, and Edward naturally progresses throughout the whole game.

RinoTheBouncer
06-27-2014, 11:54 AM
Yes, but Ezio also thought that only one person was responsible for his father's death and his revenge was satisfied, until he learned that there's more to that.

I may seem like I'm hating on AC2 a lot here, but I think it's awesome. And it's got one of my favourite moments in the whole series, that being Ezio's speech at the Bonfire of the Vanities, really shows how much Ezio has grown as a person.

That said, I disagree that AC2 has done everything right. While AC4 might have benefited from additional missions in places, I think there's just the right amount to have everything work, while AC2 on the other hand has got too many missions and seriously needed to cut things out - the pace and plot in the second half of the game becomes just so jumbled. Everything's awesome until we get to Venice, and Venice itself is awesome in the beginning, but then...

First we have the Carnivale sequence, which is the most arbitrary possibly constructed yet. We go through the Carnevale because we can't get into the party and it's the only way to get the mask, we can't steal one cause they're numbered. But we end up stealing the mask anyway. And when we get there, Theodora is already there, WITHOUT a mask (like pretty much every other guest), and not only her, but all her courtesans as well, and the guards start searching for the guy with the mask when Dante arrives! So there wasn't any point to the mask at all! Not only that, the location selected was near water and the target was standing on the ship, so getting into the party wasn't necessary as well!

Then we have the Arsenale sequence which is just poorly scripted filler. We spend time saving people from prison not once, twice, or three times, but four. We then just walk around the city and fight, and can't kill the target until a certain moment. It's just badly designed missions.

Then we get the Apple sequence where it's the sudden last appearance of Rosa, all our allies are suddenly Assassins, and we're introduced to Machiavelli who's mentoring the Order and yet is younger than Ezio and we hadn't heard absolutely anything about him? WTF?

The second half of AC2 could really take advantage of some proper restructuring, but it just drags things along. The Templar plot to take Venice is not as gripping as the Pazzi conspiracy (nor are we connected to it that much), and it's just going through the motions while something much more interesting could be done with it.

AC4 could've benefited from a few things, sure, it's not perfect but it's insanely well crafted and I disagree that timeline-wise it should've gone beyond what we have. While fake Torres/Rogers assassinations could be some more fleshed out as missions (with investegations and stuff like per original plan), there's a flow to everything, everything is connected, every character regardless of how minor he is doesn't just appear out of nowhere, they're set up and then resolved (even people as minor as Burges and Cockram). Nobody appears out of nowhere like Machiavelli, nobody disappears into nowhere like Ugo or Rosa, prominent characters have got their little arcs, and Edward naturally progresses throughout the whole game.

I agree about the Carnival and the Prisons part. Yes, it was more like those parts where we enter a restricted era and everyone is suspicious of us while everyone else is going in and out of that place without any problems, yet miraculously, I’m the only suspicious person of all the others. However, I loved the fact that Paula and the others all turned out to be Assassins in the end. I honestly loved it because it felt like we were being forged and crafted to become true Assassins and all those people were guiding us without revealing anything, even though it kinda felt obvious at certain points to me due to the help they’re giving.

Bonfire of Vanities was epic and the speech was great, as you said. In fact, I don’t replay ACII unless the DLC are included. To me, it only feels complete that way. I can’t help but look at ACII as a part of AC:B and AC:R. To me, they’re a whole or at least ACII and AC:B feel like one game. That’s what I love about it. The continuity. It’s like they got almost everything right that we loved the imperfections.

Again, I can’t deny that I did enjoy ACIV nor can I say that I didn’t love Edward, but I felt like we wasted a lot of times doing random stuff while we could’ve done something more important, story-wise. I feel like I’m torn between LOVING the fact that we had a game about how one found his path as an Assassin, and HATING the fact that the story just ended there and will likely never continue (because a book is already written about it).

Farlander1991
06-27-2014, 12:10 PM
Again, I can’t deny that I did enjoy ACIV nor can I say that I didn’t love Edward, but I felt like we wasted a lot of times doing random stuff while we could’ve done something more important, story-wise.

Everything we do in ACIV story mode bears relevance to Edward's advancement as a character - be it his personal growth or his goals. And even though ACIV story is character focused, it still has got big plot arcs going on, including the fictional Assassins vs Templars conflict and the historical rise and fall of the Pirate Republic and the end of the Golden Age. ACR has a similar character-focused set-up, btw, where Ezio's (and Altair's) personal journey takes higher priority than Assassin/Templar conflict and the historical part of the game, but those are still there and have their set-up, progress and resolution (no wonder, as both ACR and AC4 were written by the same person). I prefer these kinds of set-ups much more than purely plot-focused, like ACB which has got the plot of taking down the Borgia rule that's fully realized in the game, but it's so devoid of character development, or interesting philosophical ideas, that I can't consider it quality.

PS. I also hold a grudge on Ezio's trilogy for the whole 'telling the full life story thing'. Ezio's story was just fine in AC2 alone, it didn't NEED neither ACB nor ACR (though ACR was a welcome addition in my eyes, as it had something interesting to tell), but what it did is created this expectancy of EVERY Assassin getting a full life story treatment, which is just not the same as a full story arc. Ezio has got his full arc in AC2, Edward has got his full arc in AC4 and Connor got his full arc in AC3 - none of those characters' stories NEED or REQUIRE continuation, yet people still expect that because this is what happened with Ezio.

Jexx21
06-27-2014, 02:39 PM
Everything we do in ACIV story mode bears relevance to Edward's advancement as a character - be it his personal growth or his goals. And even though ACIV story is character focused, it still has got big plot arcs going on, including the fictional Assassins vs Templars conflict and the historical rise and fall of the Pirate Republic and the end of the Golden Age. ACR has a similar character-focused set-up, btw, where Ezio's (and Altair's) personal journey takes higher priority than Assassin/Templar conflict and the historical part of the game, but those are still there and have their set-up, progress and resolution (no wonder, as both ACR and AC4 were written by the same person). I prefer these kinds of set-ups much more than purely plot-focused, like ACB which has got the plot of taking down the Borgia rule that's fully realized in the game, but it's so devoid of character development, or interesting philosophical ideas, that I can't consider it quality.

PS. I also hold a grudge on Ezio's trilogy for the whole 'telling the full life story thing'. Ezio's story was just fine in AC2 alone, it didn't NEED neither ACB nor ACR (though ACR was a welcome addition in my eyes, as it had something interesting to tell), but what it did is created this expectancy of EVERY Assassin getting a full life story treatment, which is just not the same as a full story arc. Ezio has got his full arc in AC2, Edward has got his full arc in AC4 and Connor got his full arc in AC3 - none of those characters' stories NEED or REQUIRE continuation, yet people still expect that because this is what happened with Ezio.

Actually I don't expect it because it happened with Ezio.

I expect it because it happened with Altair, Ezio, Haytham, Edward, Nikolai, and even with Adewale you had a broader sense of how his life turned out with the information from AC Initiates. Connor and Aveline are the only protagonists left without any idea of how their lives actually turned out in the end.

Farlander1991
06-27-2014, 03:01 PM
Actually I don't expect it because it happened with Ezio.

Ezio started it all, though.

He was the first one we looked at throughout the decades.
He was the first one to get a second main console game (and a third one as well!)
He was the first one to get a movie of how he died.
He was the first one we knew the whole life story of, pretty much. Though he rivals with Altair, but the only reason we got Altair's biography in The Secret Crusade was because we already knew Ezio's whole life while Altair's not really, so it was a method to make things 'fair' so to speak.

And with all post-Revelations material it's sort of a catch-up with Ezio, really. It all snowballed to the point that we can't have any kind of finished story arc without a bunch of people yelling 'THERE WAS NO ENDING, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WENT AFTER!!!!!', even though people didn't have problem with this kind of thing during AC1 and AC2 times (where we'd end a story arc and leave the character's life), but after everything Ezio has started - they do.

RinoTheBouncer
06-27-2014, 04:12 PM
PS. I also hold a grudge on Ezio's trilogy for the whole 'telling the full life story thing'. Ezio's story was just fine in AC2 alone, it didn't NEED neither ACB nor ACR (though ACR was a welcome addition in my eyes, as it had something interesting to tell), but what it did is created this expectancy of EVERY Assassin getting a full life story treatment, which is just not the same as a full story arc. Ezio has got his full arc in AC2, Edward has got his full arc in AC4 and Connor got his full arc in AC3 - none of those characters' stories NEED or REQUIRE continuation, yet people still expect that because this is what happened with Ezio.

As far as I know, it’s Ubisoft who said that we they’ll always tell a full story of an Assassin and that happened with Altair’s ending in AC:R and the Embers short film for Ezio, though we only saw Altair’s birth on AC: Initiates. I believe it’s nothing negative and it’s mainly because people are interested and invested in those characters. I wanted a continuation for Connor and Edward not because I want them to walk the path of Ezio nor to be equal to him but because I personally didn’t find either of the stories to be fulfilling. Connor’s story, especially after the reveal of the hidden epilogue felt like there are endless possibilities to the story. It would’ve been extremely interesting to see what became of Connor whether he continued to be an Assassin, retired, became a Templar perhaps (plot twist), died soon after from some disease or some attack, his marriage, his descendants..etc.

I also felt that Haytham’s story was incomplete and I found it extremely annoying that they chose to give Adťwale the DLC (which I loved so much) and they didn’t create anything for Hayham or even for Connor since Edward is their ancestor and they could’ve made some really interesting DLC for either of them because fans have been demanding such a continuation for so long and BAM, they give it to Adťwale. I personally did enjoy Freedom Cry a lot but I think they wasted an opportunity to give the fans something they’ve longed for and it wouldn’t have been as risky as creating a whole new game.

Regarding Ezio’s sequels, I personally find them really interesting and that Ezio was a character who was loved by many so I think we can’t blame him because people loved him so much and his sequels were indeed profitable and enjoyable. AC:R was amazing and AC:B, though it felt like it was cut off from ACII, it still could not have been merged with it as ACII was 14 long sequences, and no way they could’ve made it 20 or 22 sequences long.

luckyto
06-27-2014, 05:24 PM
ACIV had a great character that I really loved so much. However, when the game ended, I was like ďare we sure this is it? is a sequel happening?Ē, it felt like it ended the moment it became interesting. I believe if the story fast forwarded through decades and covered all of Edwardís life, my feedback wouldíve been GREATLY different from what it is, now. Imagine going back to England and doing some missions and then ending either with some victory or his dead, it wouldíve been much more epic. We did explore a lot of philosophies about finding your path in life, but I felt like it all happened in short segments or in later parts of the game. I felt like they needed more time. They couldíve taken advantage of the underwater thing to set a First Civ. temple there or find something that is more scary and mighty than a monitoring device which Iím 99.9% sure wonít be featured in future games.

If you wanted more story after it was finished, that's usually sure-sign the character and story was done well.

Of all the Assassin's, Edward's arc was the most well-established, in my opinion. As the story begins, he is a scalywag - willing to abandon his family and that which has meaning in life for treasure and glory. Sure, he justified his decision to leave his wife and search for treasure to improve their life, but his desire was entirely built upon his own ambition. As the story progresses, he constantly struggles with that question which challenges so many of us ---- what is valuable? what is the meaning or purpose of my life? who do I want to become? The events that happen to him and around him combined with Mary Read's constant questioning force him to come to grips with these questions. And in the end, he realizes that treasure is not so important, that family is important and serving a greater purpose than oneself. He begins "thinking" that he knows what he wants, and ends "knowing" what he wants. His character arc concludes.

As a father, I can assure that there is no greater change than the shift from personal ambitions to family man. It is a shift from serving the self, to serving others. On a larger scale, going from being a treasure-hungry Pirate to serving the selfless Assassin Order embodies this same spirt --- from the self to serving humanity. ACIV begins with a man pillaging ships and robbing a man for wealth, and ends with a man who gives all his wealth away and is actually spending time with his family. From the self to serving others.

For Connor and Ezio, the shift was almost immediate. And in Connor's case, he was a member of a tribe - he already served others. For Ezio, it was an immediate trigger - the death of his father and brother - which pushed him into a path of revenge, and only by happenstance and guiding hands, did that path of Revenge lead him to his speech in the Bonfire of the Vanities, where he finally realized he was serving a greater good. But we never saw either character struggle with it. Edward did. In Altair, we saw him come to grips with this arc --- as he began his story punished for his self-serving arrogance and, over time, realized that his purpose was more than just killing. His conversations and questioning of Al Mualim focused on his growth; but never in the way that Edward constantly struggled with the two halves of himself.

As the credits rolled, Edward and his young girl talked - the way that a REAL dad, not just a biological father, talks with their kid. When you talk to a child, your own child, you come to their level, you listen ... really listen and respond. Edward did. I knew right then that he had finally understood what was valuable in life. The gifts he had to give would be in teaching and guiding others and serving others. I knew this was a very different man than the man I had met in Sequence One. It was fulfilling, and satisfying, in a way that an Assassin's Creed had not achieved for me before... it was ... sweet closure.

Sure, you can place value on the important historical notes of a person and how they changed society, or in AC terms, how they advanced the Creed. This person accomplished X, this person established the Order in Russia, this person trained this person who oversaw the French Revolution, or this person revived the Order and spread it through the Mediterranean. We often focus on such things... this President passed this Bill and this Person invented this Product. But such things - while interesting --- rarely speak to WHO THEY ARE. What kind of person are they really? Is Luke Skywalker the guy who destroyed the Death Star, or is he the kid that came to grips with his father's past and loved him so much that he brought him back? He is both, but which one really speaks to character and character development.

Edward's story was character development, on a very real and personal level. And when his story ended, I had a better sense of "who he was" more than any of the other Assassins.

RinoTheBouncer
06-27-2014, 08:17 PM
If you wanted more story after it was finished, that's usually sure-sign the character and story was done well.

Of all the Assassin's, Edward's arc was the most well-established, in my opinion. As the story begins, he is a scalywag - willing to abandon his family and that which has meaning in life for treasure and glory. Sure, he justified his decision to leave his wife and search for treasure to improve their life, but his desire was entirely built upon his own ambition. As the story progresses, he constantly struggles with that question which challenges so many of us ---- what is valuable? what is the meaning or purpose of my life? who do I want to become? The events that happen to him and around him combined with Mary Read's constant questioning force him to come to grips with these questions. And in the end, he realizes that treasure is not so important, that family is important and serving a greater purpose than oneself. He begins "thinking" that he knows what he wants, and ends "knowing" what he wants. His character arc concludes.

As a father, I can assure that there is no greater change than the shift from personal ambitions to family man. It is a shift from serving the self, to serving others. On a larger scale, going from being a treasure-hungry Pirate to serving the selfless Assassin Order embodies this same spirt --- from the self to serving humanity. ACIV begins with a man pillaging ships and robbing a man for wealth, and ends with a man who gives all his wealth away and is actually spending time with his family. From the self to serving others.

For Connor and Ezio, the shift was almost immediate. And in Connor's case, he was a member of a tribe - he already served others. For Ezio, it was an immediate trigger - the death of his father and brother - which pushed him into a path of revenge, and only by happenstance and guiding hands, did that path of Revenge lead him to his speech in the Bonfire of the Vanities, where he finally realized he was serving a greater good. But we never saw either character struggle with it. Edward did. In Altair, we saw him come to grips with this arc --- as he began his story punished for his self-serving arrogance and, over time, realized that his purpose was more than just killing. His conversations and questioning of Al Mualim focused on his growth; but never in the way that Edward constantly struggled with the two halves of himself.

As the credits rolled, Edward and his young girl talked - the way that a REAL dad, not just a biological father, talks with their kid. When you talk to a child, your own child, you come to their level, you listen ... really listen and respond. Edward did. I knew right then that he had finally understood what was valuable in life. The gifts he had to give would be in teaching and guiding others and serving others. I knew this was a very different man than the man I had met in Sequence One. It was fulfilling, and satisfying, in a way that an Assassin's Creed had not achieved for me before... it was ... sweet closure.

Sure, you can place value on the important historical notes of a person and how they changed society, or in AC terms, how they advanced the Creed. This person accomplished X, this person established the Order in Russia, this person trained this person who oversaw the French Revolution, or this person revived the Order and spread it through the Mediterranean. We often focus on such things... this President passed this Bill and this Person invented this Product. But such things - while interesting --- rarely speak to WHO THEY ARE. What kind of person are they really? Is Luke Skywalker the guy who destroyed the Death Star, or is he the kid that came to grips with his father's past and loved him so much that he brought him back? He is both, but which one really speaks to character and character development.

Edward's story was character development, on a very real and personal level. And when his story ended, I had a better sense of "who he was" more than any of the other Assassins.

I honestly have felt everything you said above when I played the game. That’s why I’m torn between loving it so much for being so unclose and personal and feeling that it doesn’t have much to do with the Assassins or the Creed or the general story. I think the general reaction to it would’ve been entirely different had they named it just “Black Flag”, no Assassin’s Creed and considered it a spin-off rather than a main entry. I think that was one of the main things why many criticized the story.

We did get close to Edward’s life, we felt the development of his personality and view of the world until he became what he is, in the end. But I felt like there wasn’t much about the accomplishments of the Assassins or the Creed and there wasn’t any mention of past Assassins, as far as I can remember. I mean in Ezio’s saga we’re reminded of Altair and the other Assassins numerous times, same goes for ACIII when we first know Achilles, but now it all feels like a story about someone and how they decided to join the Creed that’s why a lot of us could not relate to it as an Assassin’s Creed game.

I know that Ezio did a lot of accomplishments for himself and Connor and Altair was arrogant in the beginning and Connor only became an Assassin to avenge his mother and save his village, but there was a deep and profound interaction between the Assassins and our hero. Something that started fading away since ACIII when Connor was the only Assassin out there.

I indeed loved Edward and he’s my second favorite Assassin, the first being Ezio. But I wish the game was given more time. Had they made it 15 sequences or perhaps saved us a lot of delays that happened in the first half, it would’ve been much more interesting. I loved how theatrical most cutscenes were and how it had a lot of focus on the personality. Maybe it’s the lack of modern day story that added more wood to the fire. It’s like we got a new Assassin, a new story, a new setting, no modern day protagonist, less focus on the Assassins and Templars and no cliffhanger, so it’s like a lot of factor got us to like the game as a standalone piece but still feel that it’s out of place or does not belong in the series or perhaps can fit somewhere else, at a different point.

luckyto
06-27-2014, 08:49 PM
I see your point.

I agree that there needed to be more about his journey as an Assassin. And really, I think all the story really needed was one or two good missions - probably right before the final sequence - where he meets with Ah Tabai and the Mayan Assassins and affirms himself strongly in line with the Assassin Order. Sort of like Luke's last visit to Yoda in RETURN OF THE JEDI, a "No more training, that which you require" type discussion. And then set him on the final sequence.

Still, the games focus on each Assassin's most important accomplishments as an Assassin... not their whole life. Edward's happened during his initiation, it made him an Assassin. Altair already was one. Ezio and Connor both became indoctrinated early in their respective stories. Edward just so happened that his greatest accomplishment coincided with his understanding of the Creed.

People have been saying it wasn't an Assassin's game since it was released. I just never bought into their arguments. (I won't even go into the silly arguments about how a Pirate knows how to fight in combat or parkour.) Edward just has a different path. The story focuses more on the initiation --- and focuses on it in-depth. Personally, I felt the Templar conflict was laid out much better in this game than AC Revelations, and the resolution was much clearer than Brotherhood or ACIII. The Templars failed to achieve their goals and were wiped from the Caribbean - and Edward was the reason.

----
On a side note, the biggest problem with ACIV's story is also one of ACIV's strongest features: the wealth of interesting side content. It's impossible to keep the pace of a story when the viewer/reader is constantly being distracted by little shiny things. I loved the side content. Most gamers loved the side content. But it was often totally divested from the story, from the Assassins, and irrelevant to Edward's character. Pacing is everything in story-telling, and when that pace between Edward meeting Ah Tabai for the first time to Mary Read's death is broken by countless hours pillaging ships and forts --- the narrative loses it's strength, become diluted. It's a real challenge for the Franchise.

RinoTheBouncer
06-28-2014, 01:03 PM
I see your point.

I agree that there needed to be more about his journey as an Assassin. And really, I think all the story really needed was one or two good missions - probably right before the final sequence - where he meets with Ah Tabai and the Mayan Assassins and affirms himself strongly in line with the Assassin Order. Sort of like Luke's last visit to Yoda in RETURN OF THE JEDI, a "No more training, that which you require" type discussion. And then set him on the final sequence.

Still, the games focus on each Assassin's most important accomplishments as an Assassin... not their whole life. Edward's happened during his initiation, it made him an Assassin. Altair already was one. Ezio and Connor both became indoctrinated early in their respective stories. Edward just so happened that his greatest accomplishment coincided with his understanding of the Creed.

People have been saying it wasn't an Assassin's game since it was released. I just never bought into their arguments. (I won't even go into the silly arguments about how a Pirate knows how to fight in combat or parkour.) Edward just has a different path. The story focuses more on the initiation --- and focuses on it in-depth. Personally, I felt the Templar conflict was laid out much better in this game than AC Revelations, and the resolution was much clearer than Brotherhood or ACIII. The Templars failed to achieve their goals and were wiped from the Caribbean - and Edward was the reason.

----
On a side note, the biggest problem with ACIV's story is also one of ACIV's strongest features: the wealth of interesting side content. It's impossible to keep the pace of a story when the viewer/reader is constantly being distracted by little shiny things. I loved the side content. Most gamers loved the side content. But it was often totally divested from the story, from the Assassins, and irrelevant to Edward's character. Pacing is everything in story-telling, and when that pace between Edward meeting Ah Tabai for the first time to Mary Read's death is broken by countless hours pillaging ships and forts --- the narrative loses it's strength, become diluted. It's a real challenge for the Franchise.

I see your point as well and I wholeheartedly agree with the last paragraph regarding the pacing. I finished ACIV 100%, it was the first AC game that I finish 100%, even though I started playing AC since the very first one when it came out, I never cared about the 100% completion until ACIV, and I did enjoy the side quests but the problem with it was that, like ACIII, most side missions were kind of immersion-breaking or irrelevant to Edward. And yes, I believe Mary Reed, Anne Bonny, Blackbeard and Stede Bonnet deserved more screen time and less of those parts that you mentioned.

Another thing was that the first half of the game wasted so much time with pointless missions. I wish the focus was more on the story and I couldn’t help but feel sad about how they did not take advantage of underwater diving to find some Piece of Eden or an entrance to one of the First Civ.“Temples” or research bases. I think it would’ve been a great mixture of pirates and treasures vs. an Assassin’s quest to find a key item to the story.

I think the fact that some people said that it doesn’t feel like an AC game was that the focus of AC games since ACIII has become more directed towards the background historical setting rather than the Assassins and I’m well aware that the story was more focused on Edward’s induction into the Creed that’s why it had a lot to do with the Pirates and the waters but I feel like people were used to seeing a game focused on the Assassins, like for example Altair was born into the Creed, Ezio was born to an Assassin father and he became one since a very early age while so that gave the feeling that you’re telling a story about the Assassins set in a certain historical period and thus the title “Assassin’s Creed” is directly connected to the story, while later, since ACIII, the game started to give more focus on the historical events and figures themselves, that’s why some felt like they didn’t relate much to the title or felt like a spin-off..etc.

I think I can understand some of those arguments because maybe the changes they made led to that, they were given in one large dose that people felt too much difference. First the modern day story was greatly stripped down and no new protagonist or many familiar faces or gameplay style and the historical story was more personal and about how Edward was led to the creed, so the two changes together might have been the cause for such reactions.