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View Full Version : Mr. Maddox, GREAT work on the combat AI!



SeaFireLIV
03-19-2004, 04:29 AM
Oleg, I`ve watched people go on for 2 weeks about the AI and was waiting eagerly to find out how bad/ terible it was. But I`ve noticed that you`ve indeed improved AI a lot.
What i`ve seen:

1: You`ve spaced out the AI in formations. You don`t have to admit it, but you have! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

2: Reduced frequency of collisions. I`ve flown 5 missions in career with some bomber escourts and as yet NO collisions.

3. Axis planes appear to fight more correctly depending whom they`re facing: ie: In my Spitfire a 109 or FW will simply extend and runaway, turning back on me when they get ahead enough.

4. They boom and zoom! Alot! I`ve been blown up twice by a Focke Wolf which took me out completely by surprise. Now I look up and behind. I also saw enemy planes hovering over a bomber formation for a minute. I thought they were friendly and suddenly they dived and attacked! They took out 2 bombers before we could get there! Excellent!

5. They will try to vertically fight and try to climb! Great!

Are the AI programmed to fly to their airfield if it`s close and they are outnumbered?

The bad things of AI (sorry, Oleg).
1. They always steal my kills. I`ll smoke an enemy plane break off, then my wingman will dive in and take the kill. I`ve learnt to shoot an enemy plane to bits down to stop my friendlies stealing it!

2. I`ve had some close calls with friendly AIs nearly shooting me down, although it was my fault in one case because I dived in front.

3. New wingmen won`t often respond if bogey on my six. He`ll just fly alongside. It seems he`s waiting for me to be hit first. Although at higher experince they are better. They do seem to respond a little quicker than 1.22.... not sure.

Anyway this is only the start. I am VERYHAPPY with the improvements. I need to fly more to see what else happens.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Spitfeur2.jpg
Achtung! IT`S HERE!

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Fri March 19 2004 at 03:38 AM.]

SeaFireLIV
03-19-2004, 04:29 AM
Oleg, I`ve watched people go on for 2 weeks about the AI and was waiting eagerly to find out how bad/ terible it was. But I`ve noticed that you`ve indeed improved AI a lot.
What i`ve seen:

1: You`ve spaced out the AI in formations. You don`t have to admit it, but you have! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

2: Reduced frequency of collisions. I`ve flown 5 missions in career with some bomber escourts and as yet NO collisions.

3. Axis planes appear to fight more correctly depending whom they`re facing: ie: In my Spitfire a 109 or FW will simply extend and runaway, turning back on me when they get ahead enough.

4. They boom and zoom! Alot! I`ve been blown up twice by a Focke Wolf which took me out completely by surprise. Now I look up and behind. I also saw enemy planes hovering over a bomber formation for a minute. I thought they were friendly and suddenly they dived and attacked! They took out 2 bombers before we could get there! Excellent!

5. They will try to vertically fight and try to climb! Great!

Are the AI programmed to fly to their airfield if it`s close and they are outnumbered?

The bad things of AI (sorry, Oleg).
1. They always steal my kills. I`ll smoke an enemy plane break off, then my wingman will dive in and take the kill. I`ve learnt to shoot an enemy plane to bits down to stop my friendlies stealing it!

2. I`ve had some close calls with friendly AIs nearly shooting me down, although it was my fault in one case because I dived in front.

3. New wingmen won`t often respond if bogey on my six. He`ll just fly alongside. It seems he`s waiting for me to be hit first. Although at higher experince they are better. They do seem to respond a little quicker than 1.22.... not sure.

Anyway this is only the start. I am VERYHAPPY with the improvements. I need to fly more to see what else happens.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Spitfeur2.jpg
Achtung! IT`S HERE!

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Fri March 19 2004 at 03:38 AM.]

Kannaksen_hanu
03-19-2004, 05:17 AM
Well said!

New planes are fabulous, but all the tweaks I've noticed so far have been so great, that planes are IMHO almost secondary in importance!

I'm sure offline flyers are (or they should be) very pleased.

musickna
03-19-2004, 06:01 AM
Agree 100% - as an offliner, I am very happy with improvements in AEP's AI. Seems to be much more varied and skillful behaviour - I had a wonderful biplane fight between my J8A and an AI CR. 42 that seemed to be on a different and higher level. Most enjoyable. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gunner_361st
03-19-2004, 06:56 AM
Yeah, the AI have improved for sure.

They still tend to hang themself up through trying to climb to attack you if you have an altitude advantage. This is a very dangerous mistake as it makes the pursuer a very slow, easy target. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The Spitfire and BF110 are lovely, I bet you British fellas are loving every minute of it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Captain Gunner of the 361st vFG

http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1039.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
03-19-2004, 06:59 AM
Yes....Awsum! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I saw AI Me~262 break off from its leader that was making the usual tail attack on B~17, and the wingman climbed and attacked in a dive from 3 clock position--from the side and above. Never saw that before.


__________________
"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

VW-IceFire
03-19-2004, 07:07 AM
I find the AI MUCH more challenging than before. They seem to react in such a way that I'm almost completely fooled that they aren't human. Infact as it stands, the Veteran AI is probably more of a challenge for me than most human pilots online (the best human pilots still beat the AI hands down - creativity is the nature of the beast).

Last night I was flying a Spitfire V against some 109G-2's and that was a really tough battle. They were doing Spit-S, Immelman, lots of jinking back and forth to try and get me to loose any chance of firing solition...and they seem to have less trouble with skidding aircraft...I've been nailed doing that a few times now.

Just fantastic!

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

VVS-Manuc
03-19-2004, 07:34 AM
Hmm are you sure the better AI is not only in your illusion ? I was shot down by my AI wingman yesterday, who attacked the same plane as me from behind.

SeaFireLIV
03-19-2004, 08:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VVS-Manuc:
Hmm are you sure the better AI is not only in your illusion ? I was shot down by my AI wingman yesterday, who attacked the same plane as me from behind.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Illusion? WHAT?! Are you taking the Mickey? You think I`m sat here smoking Pot or something, dazedly dreaming about flying FB?

I`m not going to say this to everyone who will no doubt try to say I did not see what i saw. But VVS-Manuc, fly Campaign for a while, preferably on realistic-ish settings, do this:

1. Look at AI formation spacing.
2. Check on AI collisions (OF COURSE you`ll get a collision if you turn your plane straight into your wingman). Fly with reason.
3. You cannot be observing enough if you have not noticed AI LW planes sometimes attacking from above. I have seen them do it to AI bombers. Look- see! Fly more missions.
4. AI VARIES it`s attacks. It is IMPORTANT to note this. That`s the beauty of it, they will not B&Z everytime, sometimes they`ll do some noobish attacks. Just like in real life, just like noob flyers on the net!

There`s more, but this little list will do.

The whiners must observe more and not come to snap decisions or look for ALL the BAD.

It`s true what they say, `People will automatically look for the Bad and not see the Good`. It gives a very biased view of AEP to people like myself who did not have the sim to test myself.

Now I know the truth.

But if you want to say i`m seeing an illusion and imagining it all, go ahead. I`m sure others who are dtermined to WHINE will say the same to make AEP look crap. I really don`t care what you think. I know what I`ve seen and experienced and the AI has been improved!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Spitfeur2.jpg
Achtung! IT`S HERE!

jurinko
03-19-2004, 08:21 AM
just flew offline Spit vs Fw/Bfs and they did very well... extending and attacking again at high speeds. especially Fws were very dangerous.

----------------------
Letka.13/Liptow @ HL

LuftKuhMist
03-19-2004, 11:52 AM
What have you been smoking?

(sorry but I don't see this here and I have been playing 3 weeks)

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Luftcaca
03-19-2004, 12:04 PM
I agree with Seafire some things about the AI improved but the major flaws are still there...

LuftKuhmist resumed the situation quite well in one of his last post in the AI improvement thread

oh and what is it about the vertical combat???

So how can you explain the fact that the Mark VB always gets the upper hand over the A4 even if historically the 190 A4 completely dominated the Spit VB??

thats a pickle isnt it?

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

LuftKuhMist
03-19-2004, 12:06 PM
Well, maybe I am harsch a little, some THINGS have changed. But the things that annoy me are still present, SAME as ever.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

crazyivan1970
03-19-2004, 12:19 PM
Luft http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

SeaFireLIV
03-19-2004, 01:33 PM
It`s interesting hearing the people who say they don`t see this. I`ll bet that they`re are certain modes and ways they`re flying the sim and not mentioning how it affects their views. In fact I believe some of them have no wish to do a balanced report. As I said earlier I`ll not argue anymore with them. They will see what they wish to see.

I am here to redress the balance and show others that AI has improved and it has changed. I`ve also notice that since I`ve started voicing the good advances ( as well as bad- unlike our whiners who only tend to pick on bad and see nothing else), other people who previously were quiet have voiced agreement that there have been some definite improvements to the AI.

This has proven to me that people who are reasonably happy with the AI tend not to shout out on the net and WHINE, wheras those with their little persoanl pet hates will shout LOUDLY, over and over and over again, trying to force Oleg to see things their way.

What they should do is point the positives as well as the negatives and give a balanced report. Not this juvenile rubbish I`ve seen. It would depress a programmer, not help him do better- I`m trying to help him do even better!

Had I not flown AEP myself and just believed people like Luftkumist I`d NEVER have bought AEP.

Snoop_Baron
03-19-2004, 01:56 PM
I think the AI is pretty good http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Definetly the best in any sim by far.

s!
Snoop

:FI:Snoop Baron
http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

Neo-X-
03-19-2004, 02:17 PM
Seafire, I have to agree to you totally! Ok, on some missions they still hit the mountains, but combat tactics have changed a lot. I fly offline 99,9% and since AEP the campaigns are even much more fun.. So I can't agree with with luft..
_______________________________________________
Kampf, Sieg oder Tot.. ( :w: )

LEXX_Luthor
03-19-2004, 02:45 PM
Maybe its a CD version or installation that is different for everybody. Like I am the only one who P~38 is rock solid when pulling trigger--I also get fast roll rate too. hmmm.

__________________
"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

leadbaloon
03-19-2004, 02:51 PM
Seafire, you always seem to raise the issues that I have in my head. From escape whining, to the mission successful text, to this. Again I wholeheartedly agree. The AI seem that bit sharper to me. Chasing a 109 earlier he went into a climb, I followed and he kept going, pulled a hammerhead and shot me on the way down. My mouth was so wide open that I think I swallowed half of the cannon fire.

BfHeFwMe
03-19-2004, 05:03 PM
Bombers still pull violently up when you place the gunsight on them. Kind of puts a damper on setting up any high speed attacks when they attempt to taran you with a body slam.

Keep flying a few more sorties, won't be long until you wingman puts his belly into your prop attempting to rejoin, or slices up through your wing from below instead of just flying off it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

WWMaxGunz
03-19-2004, 05:52 PM
So much depends on the quaity of the AI pilot.

Don't leave it to chance! Test by setting up missions in FMB and then vary the crew levels.


Neal

Jetbuff
03-19-2004, 05:59 PM
Seafire, if true, this is indeed good news. Have you tried checking the spacing in QMB when in formation? Has it been increased beyond the default 50m? That alone would be awesome!

http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
03-19-2004, 06:15 PM
I noticed they don't get as close but I didn't pick up on it until SeaFire (or IceFire) mentioned it.

btw, thanks JetBuff, your campaign may have worked over AI spacing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif


__________________
"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

SeaFireLIV
03-19-2004, 06:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
Seafire, if true, this is indeed good news. Have you tried checking the spacing in QMB when in formation? Has it been increased beyond the default 50m? That alone would be awesome!

http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi, Jetbuff, you principally come to mind on this because I remember you as most concerned and posting on this. You made the initial suggestion to open up the formation.

Well, it`s been done. The formation has been opened by about 2 notches (to say from default ` open formation` twice). I haven`t measured exactly, but the diference is unmistakable. Definitely more than default.

I`ve flown around 7 missions now and have had no collisions at all. I haven`t even needed to order `Open formation` like I would normally do! Neither have other flights had collisions yet, there must be at least one collision soon though!

i`m actually interested to see how you get on, Jetbuff, cos you fly LW and appeared to be having the most trouble with this.

Scoutman
03-19-2004, 07:05 PM
If those negative's about friendly AI were sorted out that SeaFire listed it would make for great offline play (wingman killed my engine and rudder in my last mission for example http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif), do love the improvemnts however, Job well Done Sir http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

BfHeFwMe
03-19-2004, 11:50 PM
I agree, enemy AI is excellent, they once again pose a real threat from the six quarter. The nose to nose face shots have been toned down real well, but you can still get nailed if stupid. Well done on the enemy fighters. Gunners are much, much better, not a one way automatic ticket punched, but still lethal with bursts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Now it's my wingmen I'm afraid of. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

Jetbuff
03-20-2004, 08:51 AM
I may have suggested the increased spacing, doubt I was the first though. Even if I was, I doubt one voice would have made a difference and I remember both of you (among many others) backing me back then, keeping the thread alive.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:Well, it`s been done. The formation has been opened by about 2 notches (to say from default ` open formation` twice). I haven`t measured exactly, but the diference is unmistakable. Definitely more than default.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well then, that IS awesome! What I'm also excited about is that people first noticed the lack of collisions and only THEN the increased formations. Very close to what I thought would happen.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>i`m actually interested to see how you get on, Jetbuff, cos you fly LW and appeared to be having the most trouble with this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh yes, back then I wanted to start an offline campaign in addition to my online flying. The collisions kept turning me off because I was the kind of pilot who liked to actually fly the whole way in AND out, no time acceleration, just practicing formation and enjoying the view. AI squad-mates running into each other would suddenly, rudly interrupt my reverie.

Funny thing is, now that it's fixed I don't have any more time to fly offline hence the questions - maybe in a few weeks though, hopefully! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg