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VOL_Hans
07-30-2004, 04:31 PM
~S~ all!

Can somebody give me a little help here? Just today saw the dev. shots of the KI-61 Hein to be used in PF.

Unfortunately the term "Kai ko" after it means nothing to me. And that brings me to my questions:

1) What does "Kai Ko" mean? It appears to be the 20mm in wings version to me.

2) What are the other designations, and what do they refer to?

3) What versions will we get in PF?

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

VOL_Hans
07-30-2004, 04:31 PM
~S~ all!

Can somebody give me a little help here? Just today saw the dev. shots of the KI-61 Hein to be used in PF.

Unfortunately the term "Kai ko" after it means nothing to me. And that brings me to my questions:

1) What does "Kai Ko" mean? It appears to be the 20mm in wings version to me.

2) What are the other designations, and what do they refer to?

3) What versions will we get in PF?

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

RCJ99
07-30-2004, 06:25 PM
Ive read about a Ki61 I KAI. It was a late war model with longer nose bigger tail and 1500hp
Ha-140 engine. However I think this plane had
2 20mms in the fuselage and 2 12.7s in the wings

JG53Frankyboy
07-30-2004, 07:49 PM
perhaps you will get here some answers

http://www.marksindex.com/japaneseaviation/hien.html

unfortunatly not the one wich versions will be in PF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

RAC_Pips
07-30-2004, 08:00 PM
Various production versions of the Ki-61 Hein (excludinf experimental and evaluation models)are as follows.

Ki-61-1a
Armament: 2 x 7.7mm MG (nose) and 2 x 12.7 mm MG (wings).
Engine: kawasaki Ha.40, 1100hp
Production: 388 units, built from Aug '42 to Sept '43

Ki-61-1b
Armament: 4 x 12.7mm MG, 2 in nose, 2 in wings.
Engine: kawasaki Ha.40, 1100hp
Production: 592 units, built from Sept '43 to Apr '44

Ki-61-KAI-1c
Armament: 2 x 12.7 mm MG in Nose, 2 x 20mm Cannon in wings.
Engine: Kawasaki Ha.40 1100hp
Production: 400 units built from Sept '43 to July '44.
Yes both the 1b and 1c were built on parallel production lines.

Ki-61 1d
Armament: 2 x 12.7mm MG in Nose, 2 x 20mm Cannon in wings.
Engine Kawasaki Ha.40 1,100hp
Production: 358 units built from Jan '44 to Jan '45.

Ki-61-11 KAI
Armament: 2 x 12.7mm MG, 2 x 20mm Cannon.
Engine: Kawasaki Ha.140 1,350hp
Production: 374 units bulit from Aug '44 to Mar '45.
NB Due to a production shortage of the Kawasaki Ha.40 engine, only 99 of this model range were produced. The balance of 275 were converted to the Ki-100-1b with the radial Mitsubishi Ha.112-11 engine of similar power, with teardrop canopy and cut down fuselage.

Ki-100-KAI-1a
Armament: 2 x 12.7mm MG, 2 x 20mm Cannon
Engine: Mitsubishi Ha.112-11 radial, 1350hp
Production: 378 units from Feb '45 to Aug '45

Ki-100-1b
Armament: 2 x 12.7mm MG, 2 x20mm Cannon
Engine: Mitsubishi Ha.112-11 Radial, 1350hp
Production: 275 units converted from the Ki-61-11 Kai plus 12 new. Ma7'45 to Aug '45.

The Japanese aircraft designation ssystem is quite complicated. First off the Army and the Navy used totally seperate systems. In addition the IJAAF used three different coding systems eg Type number, Kitai numberand name (but not always).

The type numbering system came into force in 1927 and remained in use until the end of WWII. The Type number reflects the year (in the Japanese calender) when the aircraft was accepted for production and operational service. In the case of the Hein it was allocated the Type 3 code, which reflects it going into operation in the Japanese calender year of 2603 = 1943.

NB, very few books or sim developers use the Typoe number in their descriptions, so don't be surprised if they don't show.

The Kitai numbering system commenced in 1932, when the Koku Hombu (IJAAF HQ) began assigning numbers to all aircraft intended for use by the IJAAF, whether they be experimental or production. The numbers were allocated in a sequential order until 1944, when Army Intelligence decided it needed to confuse US Intelligence. Kitai numbering also remained in force until wars end.

Now models of a basic type kept the same Kitai(Ki) number, but also received an additional Roman numerial to differentiate one model from another eg 1, 11, 111, 1V etc- similar to the British Mk.V or Mk.IX Spitfire, or thre American system eg F6F-3 F6F-5. Versions of the same model (but with slight differences) received an additional Japanese character following the Roman numerial (but often replaced by a letter for ease of printing). The Japanese character's are Ko=A, Otsu-B, Hei=C etc.

In some cases the Roman numerial or letter were supplemented by a "Kaizo" (KAI) modification symbol. The KAI reflects a change from the existing production model.

So consequently any aircraft would have at least two seperate codes identifying, and sometimes three.

Take the Ki-61 as an example.
It was known as the Type 3 Fighter, Ki-61, Hein. In addition various models were differentiated by 1, 1a, 1b, KAI, 11 1a, 11b etc.

Confused are you?

I'll sum up using the above Ki-61 production aircraft, giving the full description that applies to each model as it would be recorded in Japanese records. In brackets next to each model is the common Anglisised version - which is what you usually see written.

Type 3 Fighter, KI-61-1 Ko (Ki-61-1a)

Type 3 Fighter, Ki-61-1 Otsu (Ki-61-1b)

Type 3 Fighter, Ki-61-KAI-1 Hei (Ki-61-Kai-1c)
KAI applies here as the armament changed from MG to a combo MG and Cannon.

Type 3 Fighter, Ki-61-1 Tei (Ki-61-1d)

Type 3 Fighter, Ki-61-11 KAI (ki-61-11)
KAI applies to the change from the HA.40 to the Ha.140 engine.

Type 5 Fighter, Ki-100-KAI-1 Ko (Ki-100-KAI-1a)
Notice the type change. The Ki-100 went operational in the Japanese year of 2605 - 1945. KAI used to show that the engine changed again, from the Kawasaki Inline to the Mitsubishi 112 radial engine.

Type 5 Fighter, Ki-100-1 OTSU (Ki-100-1b)

Hope all this has helped. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VOL_Hans
07-30-2004, 10:40 PM
The KAI with the what now?...

I'm lost...

Oh well, whatever it is or you call it, sounds sweet to me!

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg