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XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 11:41 PM
Since threads seem to keep coming up about what bullets are supposed to do what in game, this might be handy for any future reference. I'm not sure if this table has changed for FB 1.11, it'd be handy if someone could see if they can find any reference to it having done so, since I can't.



_______
Author:
Oleg_Maddox
Rank:
Creator of IL-2
Sturmovik
Date:
08/14/02 12:56PM



Here is the direct table of shells and bullets from source code of IL-2.
Comments:

power - here is the TNT, that also modelled (as well as pices of shells).

T - Tracer bullet
AP - Armor-Piercing bullet
APT - Armor-Piercing with Tracer
API - Armor-Piercing Incendary
APIT - Armor-Piercing Incendary Tracer
HE - High-Explosive shell
HEI - High-Explosive Incendary shell
HET - High-Explosive with Tracer
HEIT - High-Explosive Incendary Tracer
MG - M-Geschoss, thin-shell High Explosive

such line destinated the sequence of shells/bullets:
// APIT - AP - AP - APIT - API - API


Table itself.
==========================


Browning .303
// APIT - AP - AP - APIT - API - API

API/APIT
mass = 0.010668491403778
speed = 835.0
power = 0.0018

AP
mass = 0.010668491403778
speed = 835.0
power = 0

Browning .50
// APIT - AP - HE - AP

APIT
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0
power = 0.002

AP
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0
power = 0

HE
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0
power = 0.00148

Hispano-Suiza Mk.I
// HET - AP - HE - AP

HE/HET
mass = 0.129
speed = 860.0
power = 0.012

AP
mass = 0.124
speed = 860.0
power = 0

M4
// HET - (APT/HET)

HET
mass = 0.604
speed = 612.0
power = 0.044

MG 131
// HET - AP - HE - AP

HE/HET
mass = 0.035
speed = 710.0
power = 0.00148

AP
mass = 0.034
speed = 750.0
power = 0

MG 15
// AP - AP - APT

AP/APT
mass = 0.0128
speed = 760.0
power = 0

MG 151
// HET - AP - HE - AP

HE/HET
mass = 0.057
speed = 960.0
power = 0.0019

AP
mass = 0.072
speed = 859.0
power = 0

MG 151/20
// APIT - HE - HE - MG - MG
APIT
mass = 0.115
speed = 710.0
power = 0.0036

HE
mass = 0.115
speed = 705.0
power = 0.0044

MG
mass = 0.092
speed = 775.0
power = 0.0186

MG 17
// AP - AP - APT

AP/APT
mass = 0.010
speed = 810.0
power = 0

MG 81
// AP - APT

AP/APT
mass = 0.010
speed = 920.0
power = 0

MG/FF
// APIT - HE - HE - MG

APIT
mass = 0.115
speed = 580.0
power = 0.0036

HE
mass = 0.115
speed = 585.0
power = 0.0044

MG
mass = 0.092
speed = 690.0
power = 0.0186

MK 103
// APT - MG - MG - HE

APT
mass = 0.502
speed = 752.0
power = 0.0

MG
mass = 0.330
speed = 900.0
power = 0.072

HE
mass = 0.455
speed = 800.0
power = 0.024

MK 108
// HEIT - MG

HEIT
mass = 0.455
speed = 500.0
power = 0.024

MG
mass = 0.330
speed = 525.0
power = 0.072

NS-37
// HEIT - APT

HEIT
mass = 0.735
speed = 900.0
power = 0.0406

APT
mass = 0.760
speed = 880.0
power = 0

NS-45
// HEIT - AP

HEIT
mass = 1.065
speed = 780.0
power = 0.052

AP
mass = 1.000
speed = 850.0
power = 0.0

PaK40
// HEIT

HEIT
mass = 6.800
speed = 770.0
power = 0.680

ShKAS
// APIT - API - T - API

APIT
mass = 0.0096
speed = 869.0
power = 0.0005

API
mass = 0.0096
speed = 871.0
power = 0.0005

T
massa = 0.0096
speed = 869.0
power = 0

ShVAK
// APIT - HE

APIT
mass = 0.096
speed = 800.0
power = 0.001

HE
mass = 0.0676
speed = 800.0
power = 0.0068

UBS / UBT
// APIT - AP - HEI

APIT
mass = 0.0448
speed = 850.0
power = 0.001

AP
mass = 0.051
speed = 850.0
power = 0

HEI
mass = 0.0428
speed = 850.0
power = (0.00114+0.00128)

VYa
// SIT - API - API

SIT
mass = 0.195
speed = 890.0
power = 0.0156

API
mass = 0.201
speed = 890.0
power = 0.008

API
mass = 0.201
speed = 890.0
power = 0.008


-------------

If you'll ask why some bullets has TNT, its because they had explosive in warhead.



Oleg Maddox
1C:Maddox Games


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XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 11:41 PM
Since threads seem to keep coming up about what bullets are supposed to do what in game, this might be handy for any future reference. I'm not sure if this table has changed for FB 1.11, it'd be handy if someone could see if they can find any reference to it having done so, since I can't.



_______
Author:
Oleg_Maddox
Rank:
Creator of IL-2
Sturmovik
Date:
08/14/02 12:56PM



Here is the direct table of shells and bullets from source code of IL-2.
Comments:

power - here is the TNT, that also modelled (as well as pices of shells).

T - Tracer bullet
AP - Armor-Piercing bullet
APT - Armor-Piercing with Tracer
API - Armor-Piercing Incendary
APIT - Armor-Piercing Incendary Tracer
HE - High-Explosive shell
HEI - High-Explosive Incendary shell
HET - High-Explosive with Tracer
HEIT - High-Explosive Incendary Tracer
MG - M-Geschoss, thin-shell High Explosive

such line destinated the sequence of shells/bullets:
// APIT - AP - AP - APIT - API - API


Table itself.
==========================


Browning .303
// APIT - AP - AP - APIT - API - API

API/APIT
mass = 0.010668491403778
speed = 835.0
power = 0.0018

AP
mass = 0.010668491403778
speed = 835.0
power = 0

Browning .50
// APIT - AP - HE - AP

APIT
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0
power = 0.002

AP
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0
power = 0

HE
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0
power = 0.00148

Hispano-Suiza Mk.I
// HET - AP - HE - AP

HE/HET
mass = 0.129
speed = 860.0
power = 0.012

AP
mass = 0.124
speed = 860.0
power = 0

M4
// HET - (APT/HET)

HET
mass = 0.604
speed = 612.0
power = 0.044

MG 131
// HET - AP - HE - AP

HE/HET
mass = 0.035
speed = 710.0
power = 0.00148

AP
mass = 0.034
speed = 750.0
power = 0

MG 15
// AP - AP - APT

AP/APT
mass = 0.0128
speed = 760.0
power = 0

MG 151
// HET - AP - HE - AP

HE/HET
mass = 0.057
speed = 960.0
power = 0.0019

AP
mass = 0.072
speed = 859.0
power = 0

MG 151/20
// APIT - HE - HE - MG - MG
APIT
mass = 0.115
speed = 710.0
power = 0.0036

HE
mass = 0.115
speed = 705.0
power = 0.0044

MG
mass = 0.092
speed = 775.0
power = 0.0186

MG 17
// AP - AP - APT

AP/APT
mass = 0.010
speed = 810.0
power = 0

MG 81
// AP - APT

AP/APT
mass = 0.010
speed = 920.0
power = 0

MG/FF
// APIT - HE - HE - MG

APIT
mass = 0.115
speed = 580.0
power = 0.0036

HE
mass = 0.115
speed = 585.0
power = 0.0044

MG
mass = 0.092
speed = 690.0
power = 0.0186

MK 103
// APT - MG - MG - HE

APT
mass = 0.502
speed = 752.0
power = 0.0

MG
mass = 0.330
speed = 900.0
power = 0.072

HE
mass = 0.455
speed = 800.0
power = 0.024

MK 108
// HEIT - MG

HEIT
mass = 0.455
speed = 500.0
power = 0.024

MG
mass = 0.330
speed = 525.0
power = 0.072

NS-37
// HEIT - APT

HEIT
mass = 0.735
speed = 900.0
power = 0.0406

APT
mass = 0.760
speed = 880.0
power = 0

NS-45
// HEIT - AP

HEIT
mass = 1.065
speed = 780.0
power = 0.052

AP
mass = 1.000
speed = 850.0
power = 0.0

PaK40
// HEIT

HEIT
mass = 6.800
speed = 770.0
power = 0.680

ShKAS
// APIT - API - T - API

APIT
mass = 0.0096
speed = 869.0
power = 0.0005

API
mass = 0.0096
speed = 871.0
power = 0.0005

T
massa = 0.0096
speed = 869.0
power = 0

ShVAK
// APIT - HE

APIT
mass = 0.096
speed = 800.0
power = 0.001

HE
mass = 0.0676
speed = 800.0
power = 0.0068

UBS / UBT
// APIT - AP - HEI

APIT
mass = 0.0448
speed = 850.0
power = 0.001

AP
mass = 0.051
speed = 850.0
power = 0

HEI
mass = 0.0428
speed = 850.0
power = (0.00114+0.00128)

VYa
// SIT - API - API

SIT
mass = 0.195
speed = 890.0
power = 0.0156

API
mass = 0.201
speed = 890.0
power = 0.008

API
mass = 0.201
speed = 890.0
power = 0.008


-------------

If you'll ask why some bullets has TNT, its because they had explosive in warhead.



Oleg Maddox
1C:Maddox Games


http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/worker_parasite.jpg

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XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 11:43 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure some of this changed in 1.11 (specifically the .303's), but it's very interesting anyways. Thanks for posting it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/flying_moose/images/2-picture3.jpg?0.488377430005666 </center>

Message Edited on 09/28/0310:44PM by TallMoose

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 11:53 PM
In regards to power, there is only a diference of .0002 between a .303 and a.50? Surely there is something I don't understand here.

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 11:58 PM
Hi Timex,

The "power" rating is the bullets explosive content given a single rating.

The actual damage for non explosive rounds is, as far as I know, determined by calculations on its mass and speed of impact vs the surface it hits.

The table is only half the story, since things such as bullet speed dropoff, tracer burn time, trajectory, and most importantly the targets armor rating aren't shown on the tables. But it should give some idea as to what the game works with.


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XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 12:03 AM
Very informative. Thank you very much Clint.

fluke39
09-29-2003, 12:10 AM
Hmm very interesting

thanks for posting

the AP/ APIT / HE etc after each weapons name - is that the order of loading in each gun?



edit - ignore the bit i just edited out http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif as it's not right at all

<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>


Message Edited on 09/28/0311:13PM by fluke39

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 01:44 AM
fluke39 wrote:

- the AP/ APIT / HE etc after each weapons name - is
- that the order of loading in each gun?

Yep, that's right. It comes with the usual caveat that this is data from IL2 and there are several changes that are well known such as the P39's ammo mix going to HE only.

<center>
Read the <a href=http://www.mudmovers.com/sturmovik_101/FAQ.htm>IL2 FAQ</a>
Got Nimrod? Try the unofficial <A HREF=http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=4870c2bc08acb0f130e5e3396d08d595>OT forum</A>

Message Edited on 09/29/0310:46AM by hobnail

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 09:21 AM
Thanx, very informative stuff.
Any idea on what's this "SIT" shell stands for?

- VYa
- // SIT - API - API
-
- ....
-
- SIT
- mass = 0.195
- speed = 890.0
- power = 0.0156



<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 09:30 AM
Check this out.
MG 151 (I presume 15mm):
HE/HET : speed = 960.0
AP : speed = 859.0

Is this correct? Horrible difference between bullets!

http://sivusto.servepics.com/~lahnat/werre2s.jpg

prkl

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 09:46 AM
Not to gripe or meant as a gripe. I just want to know why the big difference in velocity between the russian 7.65x54 and the German 8mm?

I know they're listed differently but to my knowledge thats what they are. I have personal experience with both of these calibers personnaly owning both in the form of a Mosin Nagant M-44, and a Turkish 1944 8mm Mauser.

Ballistically these two rounds are practically identical. The only difference being trajectory as the 8mm drops off faster due to heavier bullet weight.

I notice a huge difference when flying the aircraft in bullet velocity. It makes the german aircrafts MG's almost worthless, and require twice the accuracy and correct deflection of the russian aircraft. Mainly die to the need for deflection which puts the enemy aircraft out of view somewhere below your dashboard.

I mean at close ranges like 300 or less they are fine. However they didn't mount them in the nose so you had to get close. As nose mounted armaments allow you to engage bombers at longer rangers more accurately. Also fighters but by the time the rounds get there against fighters they're gone. Where with nose mounted MG's in russian aircraft you can hit at very long ranges.

Note this has nothing to do with "game balance" but more or less real life ballistic's of similar rounds. Unless I'm mistaken and the game MG's are of a different caliber.

Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 09:53 AM
.303 seem weakened for sure in 1.11, even with close range with exact convergence they seem very inneffective against all a/c

p11s have to get a pk to shootdown another p11

and .50s against the b239 190s yaks la5 la7 laggs p39 too compaired to previous verions but now they shredd the il2 easily. I dont think oleg changed the .50 strenght but seems like the dm of certain aircraft.

also what type of .50 does oleg model it sure isnt incidary or explosive rounds and why does the b239 seem more powerfull then the p40 and the p40 seems more powerfull then the jugs 8. Firing with 4 .50s of the jug dont even compair to the b239s gun strenghts.

german smgs are still so weak as well


I hope things get sorted out


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

WWMaxGunz
02-20-2004, 04:00 PM
Same gun and different bullets/shells at very different speeds, please note that lighter projectiles will accelerate down the barrel faster given the same amount of powder behind them.

It's a very complex thing with the differences in velocities. The lighter rounds will start off with a flatter trajectory but will also slow down quicker than the heavier rounds. They will all at close range hit very close and then the lighter ones will be a bit high with how far along and how far out depending on convergence, then all will strike very close and after that the lighters will fall low more and more. Shells with lots of explosives and thin metal walls relative to the others (German MG shells) will be much lighter. There still could be different powder loads so don't go just by weight.


Hopperfly; 2 bullets at the same muzzle velocity and one is heavier then that one will drop less at any given range. Why? All bullets drop at the same rate over time, almost 10m per second per second. That is gravity. The heavier bullet will lose speed slower so at any range will get to the target sooner and have less time to drop, it will drop less.
If you are comparing the brass and powder then the heavier bullet will have a lower muzzle velocity and sure enough will drop farther over range in general but in some cases the lighter bullet will lose speed fast enough that farther out it is the one to drop off more. You go to extremes and the rules of thumb do not apply. This is why a cannon shell can start off with less velocity than a bullet and yet have a flatter overall trajectory over distances where the bullet is arcing down terribly.


Neal

clint-ruin
05-11-2004, 08:53 AM
I'd so hate it if this ever fell off the bum end of the forum.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

clint-ruin
09-05-2004, 06:09 AM
Lots of new players about these days - maybe FB+AEP Gold is selling well? Made me wonder if anyone hasn't seen this table yet. Note that this table has almost certainly changed in some ways sometime between when it was posted and now, though.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg