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View Full Version : OMG the free running is so bad in AC3/AC4!!!



king-hailz
06-02-2014, 09:47 AM
So I was playing AC4 and I think I figured out what is so bad about the free running.... but before I begin.....
In AC3 I hated the free running it felt slow and it felt like I had no control over the character. However I heard about people blaming the cities, so I did too. Then they said they would make havana as a tribute to AC2 cities and I thought that would make it fun again, but I was disappointed, I automatically blamed the city but after playing for a while I realize it's not the cities fault it's the actual mechanic itself.

Before AC3 came out I remember them advertising how they made the new system and how the kind of animated and scripted every single move of Connor, and at the time I thought that was amazing. But now I realize by them scripting every move it took away the Co tool we had on the character. It is why he would always do random things and I wouldn't plan where I'm going I would just go forward and he would follow. Before this it felt more natural and flowing and more like my own path. However that isn't the only problem. The aanimations for when they are running and jumping are too flashy.. They were a lot of simpler before which actually felt better to play with. I would get the job done and it would feel fun. However now I have to wait 5 seconds of his jumping animation... It just felt a lot of faster and fluid before... I doubt this will be fixed but it's just a really big problem for me... It literally made me take out AC4. This is a similar thing with the combat in AC4 the animations are too long and flashy and they take away from the immersion.

Aphex_Tim
06-02-2014, 09:52 AM
It's rumored that Unity will go back to giving you more control again. At least judging from those early screenshots.
Could be that they've revamped combat as well. I guess all will be clear next week! ;)

Farlander1991
06-02-2014, 10:07 AM
Honestly, having run around recently in Florence in AC2, despite having some more control than in AC3/4, the precision of movement kinda sucks there as well. I had lots of times when Ezio didn't jump where I thought he would, when he wouldn't want to climb some part diagonally until moving back and forth a bit when he suddenly can climb a part diagonally from the same spot, etc. And that's despite having more control.

king-hailz
06-02-2014, 10:19 AM
Honestly, having run around recently in Florence in AC2, despite having some more control than in AC3/4, the precision of movement kinda sucks there as well. I had lots of times when Ezio didn't jump where I thought he would, when he wouldn't want to climb some part diagonally until moving back and forth a bit when he suddenly can climb a part diagonally from the same spot, etc. And that's despite having more control.

That is true and I agree with that but even so it was still 100 times more fun than in AC3/4... I'd rather have more control then play like this...

Markaccus
06-02-2014, 11:35 AM
The free running in AC games has always been (for me anyway) a side quest called "Assassins random adventures up a tree/wall"

Ureh
06-02-2014, 05:05 PM
Honestly, having run around recently in Florence in AC2, despite having some more control than in AC3/4, the precision of movement kinda sucks there as well. I had lots of times when Ezio didn't jump where I thought he would, when he wouldn't want to climb some part diagonally until moving back and forth a bit when he suddenly can climb a part diagonally from the same spot, etc. And that's despite having more control.

How often did that affect you? If I'm understanding you, that only occurs on rare occasions like the San Marco campinille and a few of the Borgia towers.

JustPlainQuirky
06-02-2014, 05:07 PM
I hope one day AC's free running will give you as much precision control as Shadow of the Collosus. No gravity magically pulling me to the right spot. I wanna aim myself, dang it.

jayjay275
06-02-2014, 05:34 PM
I thought the parkour was decent, but I wouldn't say it is at all terrible.

Megas_Doux
06-02-2014, 05:37 PM
No problems EVER for me. However That DOES NOT mean the system has to remain stagnant, the whole combat/navigation system needs to evolve.

phoenix-force411
06-02-2014, 05:57 PM
ACIII's was not bad at all. Sure, it can pretty annoying when the character jumps in a different path or targets a different object to jump towards, but there were more parkour elements in 3 than there were in 4. 4 had dull combat and parkour.

Bastiaen
06-02-2014, 06:47 PM
Nit picking...
I like the free running in all of the games. No matter what, it comes down to knowing how your environment works, and how your Assassin's body moves through it, and planning ahead. Herein lies the actual skill required in AC games.

SixKeys
06-02-2014, 07:03 PM
Nit picking...
I like the free running in all of the games. No matter what, it comes down to knowing how your environment works, and how your Assassin's body moves through it, and planning ahead. Herein lies the actual skill required in AC games.

Skill is being in complete control over your movements. Currently replaying AC1 and I'm once again realizing just how much fun the parkour used to be with the puppeteering system. I can change directions on a whim without the character doing whatever he pleases. If I slip and start to fall off, I can react quickly and the assassin will grab a hold exactly where I want him to. If I'm detected, it's usually my own fault for poking my head too far up when I should have known that's what the character would do.

In AC3 and (to a lesser extent) AC4, the character's movements are often wholly unpredictable. I steer Connor to the left and he veers to the right and grabs hold of a chimney. "Wait, why did you go in a complete different direction? I told you to go left. And I didn't tell you to grab anything, stop doing that. Fine, you can hang on to the side of the chimney, just get down from there before-- wait what NO DON'T CLIMB UP YOU IDIOT, the guard can see you--!! Annnnd now we're in a chase again. Of course."

DinoSteve1
06-02-2014, 07:07 PM
Skill is being in complete control over your movements. Currently replaying AC1 and I'm once again realizing just how much fun the parkour used to be with the puppeteering system. I can change directions on a whim without the character doing whatever he pleases. If I slip and start to fall off, I can react quickly and the assassin will grab a hold exactly where I want him to. If I'm detected, it's usually my own fault for poking my head too far up when I should have known that's what the character would do.

In AC3 and (to a lesser extent) AC4, the character's movements are often wholly unpredictable. I steer Connor to the left and he veers to the right and grabs hold of a chimney. "Wait, why did you go in a complete different direction? I told you to go left. And I didn't tell you to grab anything, stop doing that. Fine, you can hang on to the side of the chimney, just get down from there before-- wait what NO DON'T CLIMB UP YOU IDIOT, the guard can see you--!! Annnnd now we're in a chase again. Of course."

This is prevalent in AC3 more than any other game in the franchise, AC4 still had it to a lesser extent.

Locopells
06-03-2014, 01:07 AM
Never been a real problem for me, but maybe I'm just more used to it?

LieutenantRex
06-03-2014, 01:29 AM
Skill is being in complete control over your movements. Currently replaying AC1 and I'm once again realizing just how much fun the parkour used to be with the puppeteering system. I can change directions on a whim without the character doing whatever he pleases. If I slip and start to fall off, I can react quickly and the assassin will grab a hold exactly where I want him to. If I'm detected, it's usually my own fault for poking my head too far up when I should have known that's what the character would do.

In AC3 and (to a lesser extent) AC4, the character's movements are often wholly unpredictable. I steer Connor to the left and he veers to the right and grabs hold of a chimney. "Wait, why did you go in a complete different direction? I told you to go left. And I didn't tell you to grab anything, stop doing that. Fine, you can hang on to the side of the chimney, just get down from there before-- wait what NO DON'T CLIMB UP YOU IDIOT, the guard can see you--!! Annnnd now we're in a chase again. Of course."

As much as I criticize AC3 and AC4, I've -never- had such a problem with the freerunning.

JustPlainQuirky
06-03-2014, 04:06 AM
I see what sixkeys means completely.

AC3 and AC4 had stickier feels to them. Like I could jump somewhere and just hope I land perfectly (which i usually do) wheras in other games I have to precicely aim my jumps.


That was the one thing i disliked about AC:3 when I first played it. It felt like Automatic's Creed. Like all I was doing was tilting the control stick while the character did awesome free-running. i want it to be more than that. I want to feel like I accomplished something in my free-running dang it.

TheBearJew32
06-03-2014, 04:22 AM
Mapping the free running/ climbing to one button combo does not work. That's why it feels automatic, cuz you're really just holding R2/RT and picking a direction. I'll say it a million times over, the old formula is better. Hold R2/RT to sprint, while R2/RT + X/A = climb. It eliminates the problems of climbing things you didn't want to COMPLETELY, chasing missions will actually be more about chasing your target rather than "oh ish why'd you climb that pole? drop! drop! drop!"
I understand that people complain about not being able to control the camera with this system, so my proposition would be to allow us to change the button layout ourselves. Such as in options menu, have a "current controls" (free running same as AC3/4) and "classic controls" (ala AC1-Revelations) Judging from the early Unity screens it looks like they've revamped it slightly, which hopefully works for the better, but we'll just have to wait and see next week.. I hope you understand what i'm getting at my brain is fired so sorry for any confusion

Jexx21
06-03-2014, 04:39 AM
Mapping the free running/ climbing to one button combo does not work. That's why it feels automatic, cuz you're really just holding R2/RT and picking a direction. I'll say it a million times over, the old formula is better. Hold R2/RT to sprint, while R2/RT + X/A = climb. It eliminates the problems of climbing things you didn't want to COMPLETELY, chasing missions will actually be more about chasing your target rather than "oh ish why'd you climb that pole? drop! drop! drop!"
I understand that people complain about not being able to control the camera with this system, so my proposition would be to allow us to change the button layout ourselves. Such as in options menu, have a "current controls" (free running same as AC3/4) and "classic controls" (ala AC1-Revelations) Judging from the early Unity screens it looks like they've revamped it slightly, which hopefully works for the better, but we'll just have to wait and see next week.. I hope you understand what i'm getting at my brain is fired so sorry for any confusion

they actually don't really need to do that.

Parkour sucks when you can't move the camera around freely. So, no, don't establish a RT/R2 = run and RT/R2 + X/A = sprint thing again, just make it so that you only fully sprint and climb up things when fully holding down the trigger.

Ureh
06-03-2014, 04:41 AM
Yep AC3/4 parkour does need a bit of practice. But even then it'll disobey you on occasion.... especially when you're not expecting it. Another one is when I want to jump down, but instead they'll jump up, get exposed and thereby rouse the guards' attention.

I miss being able to easily switch between running and sprinting (but I did hear it's easier on ps4/xb1 with the new sticks?). I also like pressing the shove button myself. Sometimes I prefer the stable camera in the previous games. Also miss the old missions/tombs/etc where we had to control the character precisely, instead of a magical guardian angel guiding (and pulling) us 95% of the time. I kinda miss executing the wall run jump (like the one needed in Visitazione) and also the climb leap. A minor gripe is not being able to back-eject from wells in AC3/4 but they designed the wells like that.

But I do like it when we only need to hold one button to sprint (gives my thumb a little break). And only needing to only use the stick to climb up a building is growing on me (my index finger is thankful too).

TheBearJew32
06-03-2014, 04:49 AM
they actually don't really need to do that.

Parkour sucks when you can't move the camera around freely. So, no, don't establish a RT/R2 = run and RT/R2 + X/A = sprint thing again, just make it so that you only fully sprint and climb up things when fully holding down the trigger.

I could live with that. Having the option to change your controls in the options stills seems like a decent idea to me though, it's there if you need it. Dude you took off your twenty one pilots sig, i remember hearing migraine for the first time not too long ago and thinking i've seen the lyrics somewhere but i couldn't remember where. good song, solid band

Jexx21
06-03-2014, 04:51 AM
oh yea I took off that sig because I was trying to convince someone I was deaf

*whistles*

Markaccus
06-03-2014, 09:12 AM
I don't see a problem with returning to r2/rt +X for free running. Personally, while i am sprinting and climbing over things, the last thing i am thinking about is moving the camera angle. I tend to look around before/after climbing. In reality (i know it's a game) if you were sprinting to/from something, you would not be looking around, it would unbalance you and slow you down. you can always take your finger of X and have a quick look about while still running (lets face it you would only do that in a reasonably open area, or you would bump into stuff) then sprint again.

DinoSteve1
06-03-2014, 11:04 AM
agreed it takes a quarter of a second to move your thumb from x to R3.

SixKeys
06-03-2014, 08:44 PM
they actually don't really need to do that.

Parkour sucks when you can't move the camera around freely. So, no, don't establish a RT/R2 = run and RT/R2 + X/A = sprint thing again, just make it so that you only fully sprint and climb up things when fully holding down the trigger.

This would be a problem for PC controls, since there's currently no difference between jogging and sprinting. In the older games there was.

raytrek79
06-04-2014, 06:35 AM
I don't have any real grudges against the running, it is a different engine or whatever, they invented that more realistic gameplay about that time and wanted to exploit it, I think the novelty may have worn off by now so they don't have to try and be fancy. My disappointment with 3 was the sever lack of climbing challenges, it seems the whole tree hopping thing replaced any of the cool acrobatic verticals you get in the Ezio saga. Black Flag moved back towards satisfactory in that department as I found a number of solid climbs to impress me, but I'd still like more.

Jexx21
06-04-2014, 05:34 PM
AC4 and AC3 had the same vertical climbing animations pretty much, and they were all more acrobatic than any of the vertical moves in the past games.

So I have no idea what you're talking about there.

With the additions of vaulting and sliding in AC3 and AC4, they actually made horizontal parkour less automatic, as you had to press O/B or X/A down to properly pull off those moves, so I don't understand why they don't just implement a similar system for the vertical long jumps.

However, I do agree that due to the nature of the parkour system, it is a lot easier to accidentally climb things when you don't want to...

raytrek79
06-05-2014, 02:47 PM
AC4 and AC3 had the same vertical climbing animations pretty much, and they were all more acrobatic than any of the vertical moves in the past games.

So I have no idea what you're talking about there.

Yes, I see your point, but what I mean is climbing a viewpoint tower in 3 was pretty much just strait up and down, where for Ezio you had to negotiate a way up, and it could take you right around the entire structure, jumping to beams and swinging around corners. Finding little crevices to grab onto, leaping sideways and all that was in 4 a bit more, but 3 had an annoying lack of it. But then maybe some people hate having to find a way up like that and just prefer to go strait up(?)

m4r-k7
06-05-2014, 02:58 PM
I prefered the combat system from 1 and 2 where it was about counter attacks. I really liked the AC 1 combat system where you could pull of light and heavy attacks. It was simple, but it made you feel vulnerable and made you use stealth more. Anway in regards with the free running, apparantely AC Unity will have wall running, which tells me they are re-vamping the free running system, especially as Paris is a very urban environment.

Ureh
06-05-2014, 09:56 PM
Wall running? Like Prince of Persia? :O

GunnerGalactico
06-05-2014, 10:05 PM
Actually, I never had any problems with the parkour or climbing system in any of the AC games. The only gripe I had with AC3/4 was that the climbing system was too effortless and easy... I missed the difficulty and challenge I got from AC1 to ACR.

Megas_Doux
06-05-2014, 11:48 PM
Wall running? Like Prince of Persia? :O

Those are rumours only!

A famous parkour performer posted a picture of him wall running..... He said it was for very known game to be released in 2014.