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View Full Version : How is Minerva, Jupiter & Juno able to commmunicate with Desmond?(Among other things)



EmptyCrustacean
06-01-2014, 02:54 PM
I've heard so many contradicting statements it's making my head hurt.

Minerva is able to communicate with Desmond via the eye but didn't she destroy the eye? And even so, it's one thing to send messages through time and space, it's quite another to have full back and forth conversations with the boy there and then. How is she able to do that?

Juno is able to communicate with Desmond because she somehow managed to store her consciousness inside the Grand Temple? How?

Jupiter is able to communicate with Desmond how exactly?

None of this is made clear Additionally, if the apple was used by the First Civilisation to control the human slaves how did Adam and Eve muster up enough free will to steal the apple?

JustPlainQuirky
06-01-2014, 03:23 PM
Because Science. :rolleyes:

jayjay275
06-01-2014, 03:26 PM
Because the plot demands it.

EmptyCrustacean
06-01-2014, 11:57 PM
I'm actually being dead serious because I'm trying to write and article on Assassin's Creed but I'm shaky about those details. Can anybody help me?

Ureh
06-02-2014, 12:12 AM
Minerva claimed there is more than one. She didn't destroy all of them. Probably kept it as a contingency.

Not sure how exactly Juno put herself in there. Don't think it was explained. But she was associated with the save-the-world projects, so probably sabotaged one of them to save herself. It was trying to preserve the entire planet that was a problem, shielding her own mind would've been easy.

Tinia? Used calculations to determine when Desmond would achieve sync nexus. Which somehow brought Desmond to another dimension or "domain". I guess Jupiter waited for him there. Maybe time is really slow inthat domain or whatever. ;)

As for Adam and Eve. My guess is their minds couldn't be controlled, only their bodies. Maybe one of the FirstCiv dudes let their guard down or trusted Adam/Eve or believed that their willpower was broken and wouldn't rebel? I dunno... gotta use our imagination.

Edit: Sorry I probably didn't answer your qestions. Hopefully someone else will come along.

Locopells
06-02-2014, 01:23 AM
Minerva is able to communicate with Desmond via the eye but didn't she destroy the eye? And even so, it's one thing to send messages through time and space, it's quite another to have full back and forth conversations with the boy there and then. How is she able to do that?

"Did you think there was only one?" Minerva to Juno.

You ever see that Dr Who episode where the Doctor has a conversation with a girl in his future, by sending her a tape with his half of the conversation on - which he has been able to make since after the conversation, she runs into the Doctor's past self and gives him the tape? Something like that.

Juno is able to communicate with Desmond because she somehow managed to store her consciousness inside the Grand Temple? How?

Precise method unknown, but the idea of uploading a brain into a computer is an old one - there a Jonney Depp movies out at the moment, based on that exact idea...

Jupiter is able to communicate with Desmond how exactly?

Unclear. Some kind of message left in the Apple under Masyaf, which can be delivered at the 'Sync Nexus' moment of Desmond reliving the moment Ezio touches that Apple and receives the message himself...

None of this is made clear Additionally, if the apple was used by the First Civilisation to control the human slaves how did Adam and Eve muster up enough free will to steal the apple?

When not directly under the influence of the Apple, they obviously managed to resist it's effects enough to break their conditioning - if they were some kind of cross between humans and TWCB, as has been hinted, then that probably helped.[/QUOTE]

adventurewomen
06-02-2014, 01:30 AM
Through the Nexus more information about the Nexus here: http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Nexus and http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Synch_Nexus

Ureh
06-02-2014, 01:50 AM
@Locopells Did Ezio come into physical contact with the Apple? Seem to remember his hesitation when he saw it. But Ezio did touch his shoulder and asked him to listen for whatever reason...

EmptyCrustacean
06-02-2014, 01:59 AM
[/B]"Did you think there was only one?" Minerva to Juno.[QUOTE]

Thanks :)

[QUOTE]You ever see that Dr Who episode where the Doctor has a conversation with a girl in his future, by sending her a tape with his half of the conversation on - which he has been able to make since after the conversation, she runs into the Doctor's past self and gives him the tape? Something like that.

I don't watch Dr Who... and also, it doesn't explain how she is able to have a full on argument with Juno in front of Desmond especially when she didn't know that Juno was manipulating Connor and Desmond until the last moment. The conversation seemed live.


Precise method unknown, but the idea of uploading a brain into a computer is an old one - there a Jonney Depp movies out at the moment, based on that exact idea...

Thanks :)


Unclear. Some kind of message left in the Apple under Masyaf, which can be delivered at the 'Sync Nexus' moment of Desmond reliving the moment Ezio touches that Apple and receives the message himself...

So how is Jupiter able to communicate with Ezio? lol


When not directly under the influence of the Apple, they obviously managed to resist it's effects enough to break their conditioning - if they were some kind of cross between humans and TWCB, as has been hinted, then that probably helped.

I've heard this theory but Juno told Desmond in Brotherhood that TOTCB didn't start breeding with the humans until the solar flare apocalypse which effectively ended the war and forced TOTCB to make peace with the humans. The purpose of the breeding was to "pass down the sixth sense" (eagle vision) to the humans once they were gone. Where was it ever hinted that Adam and Eve were half breeds?

Locopells
06-02-2014, 02:01 AM
@Locopells Did Ezio come into physical contact with the Apple? Seem to remember his hesitation when he saw it. But Ezio did touch his shoulder and asked him to listen for whatever reason...

Now that you say that, I don't think he did - just with the image of Desmond, the Apple was projecting (though that was probably enough).

JustPlainQuirky
06-02-2014, 02:10 AM
I still find it hilarious that assassins (possessors of eagle vision) are not just philosophers but also a species in a way.


Human+TOWCB=Eagle Vision bebeh


So technically not all assassins could have eagle vision then, correct? Because someone who believes in the philosophies might be born from pure slaves and not TOWCB half breeds.

Locopells
06-02-2014, 02:12 AM
I don't watch Dr Who... and also, it doesn't explain how she is able to have a full on argument with Juno in front of Desmond especially when she didn't know that Juno was manipulating Connor and Desmond until the last moment. The conversation seemed live.

Something like this - she looks in the Eye and sees the conversation happening in 2012, then records her part in it and stores it in the Temple, to play when the conversation actually happens - and presumably this alters as she sees how Desmond and Juno respond her. For her it is live. Does that make any kind of sense?!


So how is Jupiter able to communicate with Ezio? lol

Well he never actually interacts, other then making sure the message is getting though - it's really just a recoding that Minerva has told him where to send...


I've heard this theory but Juno told Desmond in Brotherhood that TOTCB didn't start breeding with the humans until the solar flare apocalypse which effectively ended the war and forced TOTCB to make peace with the humans. The purpose of the breeding was to "pass down the sixth sense" (eagle vision) to the humans once they were gone. Where was it ever hinted that Adam and Eve were half breeds?

Possibly/possible not, depending on what you take from S16's Glyphs. Even if they weren't though, the rest still stands.

JustPlainQuirky
06-02-2014, 02:14 AM
Wait I forgot Darby said everyone could technically get eagle vision. So I guess only the half breeds survived. Hence Adam and Eve I suppose.

Layytez
06-02-2014, 03:29 AM
Wait I forgot Darby said everyone could technically get eagle vision. So I guess only the half breeds survived. Hence Adam and Eve I suppose.
Once the majority of the population died they all bred with each other thus creating the population we have today. Essentially everyone has eagle vision but the First Civ dna concentration contributes to the likelihood of unlocking it faster than those with less. Gavin can use it but he seems tired afterwards and it didn't come to him naturally like everyone else.

Ureh
06-02-2014, 06:48 AM
@EmptyCrustacean Well the Truth video was supposedly recorded by S16 during his time in the animus. That probably means S16 is descended from Adam and/or Eve. And S16 and Desmond are sorta related (thanks to Ezio), which means they both had TWCB dna. There'rea lot of unID generations in between buuuut, I guess we can assume that the power originated from Adam/Eve.

Edit: Yeah I guess that still doesn't really prove it. But official sources label Adam and Eve as hybrids if I recall correctly. The Ubiworkshop Encyclopedia... and AC Initiates. So the only faint hints we have are their names which typically refer to firstborn or being special in some way. And that they were able to steal the apple and wield it to start a fullscale rebellion... which might indicate that they were at least partially immune to the PoEs.

EmptyCrustacean
07-17-2014, 02:51 PM
Thanks so much for all your help so far but I'm writing my article and I'm finding there is still some stuff hanging in the air especially because all over the internet people are constantly contradicting each other...

For one thing, if there was a Second Eye that didn't have Juno bound to it why didn't Minerva just leave that eye there for Desmond to activate in the future and thus prevent the solar flare?

Ureh
07-17-2014, 08:49 PM
Thanks so much for all your help so far but I'm writing my article and I'm finding there is still some stuff hanging in the air especially because all over the internet people are constantly contradicting each other...

I'm really hoping someone will correct me if I'm wrong, cause we're treading on territory that I'm not familiar with. But I'll still try to help you with some of my conjecture. xD :p


For one thing, if there was a Second Eye that didn't have Juno bound to it why didn't Minerva just leave that eye there for Desmond to activate in the future and thus prevent the solar flare?

Minerva was known for her intelligence - I guess you can call it clairvoyance - because she is so good at math that she can calculate/predict several different outcomes/futures. From there, Minerva can determine which future is most likely to occur. However, I'm guessing she's not infallible and Juno is pretty smart too, Minerva probably made a mistake and wasn't able to predict that Juno somehow sabotaged the Grand Temple and its Eye. So I guess Minerva might've got a bit complacent and wasn't able to counter Juno's scheme in time.

About there being a second Eye.... I was probably wrong. From what I can remember, they never specify what kind of tool Minerva is using to contact Desmond. Juno only refers to it as a "device" and Minerva said "Did you think there was only one?!" Could it be a second Eye or is it just a really advanced walkie-talkie. Minerva claims that she is truly dead. If that's true, then I guess she isn't using another Eye. At this point, I guess we don't have enough info and there's still enough wiggle room to retcon the story. But for now, let's say I was wrong, there was only one Eye (the one that Juno was using).

Hopefully I made some sense. And I'm really sorry if I'm passing along any incorrect info.

EmptyCrustacean
07-18-2014, 08:08 AM
Something like this - she looks in the Eye and sees the conversation happening in 2012, then records her part in it and stores it in the Temple, to play when the conversation actually happens - and presumably this alters as she sees how Desmond and Juno respond her. For her it is live. Does that make any kind of sense?!

Yep this makes perfect sense, thanks.



About there being a second Eye.... I was probably wrong. From what I can remember, they never specify what kind of tool Minerva is using to contact Desmond. Juno only refers to it as a "device" and Minerva said "Did you think there was only one?!" Could it be a second Eye or is it just a really advanced walkie-talkie. Minerva claims that she is truly dead. If that's true, then I guess she isn't using another Eye. At this point, I guess we don't have enough info and there's still enough wiggle room to retcon the story. But for now, let's say I was wrong, there was only one Eye (the one that Juno was using).

Hopefully I made some sense. And I'm really sorry if I'm passing along any incorrect info.

This, however, not so much....
It was definitely a second eye because the eye was the only thing that enabled TOTCB to communicate with Desmond - Juno by storing her conscious and Minerva through sending messages in time. The only device that we know of Minerva destroying was the first eye. It's obviously a plot hole/gap in logic. There was no reason for Minerva not to send the eye to the future so that Desmond could touch it and save the world.

Ureh
07-19-2014, 01:47 AM
Well, I can't remember if they ever specifically state that the first Eye was destroyed. I didn't get the impression that it was implied either. When Juno said that Minerva "destroyed it", that line might be referring to something else. And I thought the one and only function of the eye was to predict the most likeliest future. Did they ever mention that it could be used for communication? Can't seem to remember at the moment. So I just assumed that: 1) the first eye was left intact for Desmond to find and use; 2) Minerva is using a completely "new" device, that we haven't seen yet, to communicate with Desmond.

I mean, why did Minerva create a new Eye if she could've just repaired the first Eye (assuming the first one was destroyed)? She designed the Eye, so she must've known how to fix it right? x)

There could be a second Eye though! In that case, I'm just as curious and confused as you. Why didn't Minerva just build it in the Grand Temple since that's where she told Desmond to go?! Could it be that the original schematics to prevent the solar flare did not require the use of an Eye? And... I forgot what I was thinking so I'll just leave this here. :p

LightRey
07-19-2014, 11:03 AM
...sigh

Minerva had built more than one eye as said before, Juno stored her consciousness inside the Grand Temple (likely actually inside The Eye as activating it is how she was released) using one of the (failed) methods they had developed as an attempt to save the world (or at least its people).

Jupiter used Alta´r's Apple to leave Desmond a message. Just like with The Eye it's in some ways more similar to a conversation across a large time-gap rather than leaving a message (despite the fact that he does all the talking), which, along with what he says at the beginning, suggests that The Eye was involved in doing the necessary calculations. This is also why it was so important Alta´r's Apple be hidden away until Ezio found it.

Adam and Eve were human-TWCB hybrids and therefore (partially) immune to the Apple's effects, just like Alta´r.

I know that most-if not all-of this has already been said, but some important bits of information were missing and discussions like this one tend to require an accurate summary.

Abeonis
07-20-2014, 04:03 PM
LightRey (above) is correct.

The only First Civ who actually communicated with Desmond - rather than simply leave a message - was Juno, since she is still alive (in a sense). Minerva and Jupiter only communicated through pre-recorded messages; and that was hard even for Jupiter to understand:


"Do you hear me, cipher? Can you see me? Ah. There you are. Good. A strange place, this nexus of time. I am not used to the... calculations. That has always been Minerva's domain."As for Minerva, well, the message she left for Desmond in the Temple was actually recorded before the message she left for Ezio in the Vatican Vault. Minerva has viewed the Calculations and is able to see these interactions play out, and then records the messages she sees. How hard must it be, leaving a message that tries to convince somebody to do something, when you have already seen that they will not do as you ask?

Tl;DR - The methods of communication are different: Juno's communication is akin to a phone call, as opposed to Minerva and Jupiter's voicemail.

Ureh
07-20-2014, 05:17 PM
As for Minerva, well, the message she left for Desmond in the Temple was actually recorded before the message she left for Ezio in the Vatican Vault. Minerva has viewed the Calculations and is able to see these interactions play out, and then records the messages she sees. How hard must it be, leaving a message that tries to convince somebody to do something, when you have already seen that they will not do as you ask?

Oh wow, that's news to me. How did you come to that conclusion? :O

EmptyCrustacean
08-07-2014, 04:37 PM
...sigh

Minerva had built more than one eye as said before, Juno stored her consciousness inside the Grand Temple (likely actually inside The Eye as activating it is how she was released) using one of the (failed) methods they had developed as an attempt to save the world (or at least its people).

Jupiter used Alta´r's Apple to leave Desmond a message. Just like with The Eye it's in some ways more similar to a conversation across a large time-gap rather than leaving a message (despite the fact that he does all the talking), which, along with what he says at the beginning, suggests that The Eye was involved in doing the necessary calculations. This is also why it was so important Alta´r's Apple be hidden away until Ezio found it.

Adam and Eve were human-TWCB hybrids and therefore (partially) immune to the Apple's effects, just like Alta´r.

I know that most-if not all-of this has already been said, but some important bits of information were missing and discussions like this one tend to require an accurate summary.

Thanks but this still doesn't answer why Minerva didn't just leave the second Eye for Desmond...

Lastly, how did Desmond know about the second solar flare again? Wasn't it Jupiter that told him?


Thanks but this still doesn't answer why Minerva didn't just leave the second Eye for Desmond...

Lastly, how did Desmond know about the second solar flare again? Wasn't it Jupiter that told him?

Actually, I remember: Minvera tells Desmond through Ezio and then Lucy and Shaun reiterates at the end.

EmptyCrustacean
09-06-2014, 04:08 PM
lol I did the article in the end. Here it is if anyone is interested: http://cartoonsarebetterthanreallife.wordpress.com/2014/08/17/nothing-is-true-assassins-creed-coming-2015/

Assassin_M
09-06-2014, 04:20 PM
lol I did the article in the end. Here it is if anyone is interested: http://cartoonsarebetterthanreallife.wordpress.com/2014/08/17/nothing-is-true-assassins-creed-coming-2015/
The Apple Connor drops in the ocean is not Ezio's apple.

I'll also stop reading to avoid this turning into "another Connor thread" Good luck, mate.

EmptyCrustacean
09-06-2014, 05:32 PM
The Apple Connor drops in the ocean is not Ezio's apple.

I'll also stop reading to avoid this turning into "another Connor thread" Good luck, mate.

I actually like Connor as a person. I just didn't think we was a very good Assassin.