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View Full Version : There is no respect for the guards



JustPlainQuirky
06-01-2014, 01:20 AM
http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1059/5083/original.jpg

The image speaks for itself.

So many innocent fathers and husbands we probably killed. It would be nice to get a bit more of their perspective. How they get the short end of the stick so much.

These men deserve to be identified and sympathized by the player more, me thinks.

Or am I just crazy?

SpiritOfNevaeh
06-01-2014, 01:33 AM
http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1059/5083/original.jpg

The image speaks for itself.

So many innocent fathers and husbands we probably killed. It would be nice to get a bit more of their perspective. How they get the short end of the stick so much.

These men deserve to be identified and sympathized by the player more, me thinks.

Or am I just crazy?

You just answered your own question :D

No seriously, i see what you mean, but it's not like you have to kill them unless it's a mission/memory requirement

DumbGamerTag94
06-01-2014, 01:34 AM
Yeah that's true. Maybe they could add more dialogues where if you are standing near some guards, or on some tailing missions, they could talk about their kids or wife or parents. Like a guy who just learns he's a new dad, or they've been away for war so long they only have to wait a few days to go home. Idk just something to sympathize with them or make you feel bad for killing guards indiscriminately outside of combat like your picture there.

LieutenantRex
06-01-2014, 01:34 AM
You're not crazy. I wrote a fanfiction about the guards in Assassin's Creed and their families and their lives before they get stabbed by Ezio/Connor/Altair.

In all honesty, even though the guards are 'innocent' and killing them would violate the Creed, it's collateral that each Assassin must live with. Both Ezio and Altair showed regret late in their lives for all the blood they spilled, but at the time, things had to be done. Some of the guards are ****s. Like the Ottomans in Constantinople who massacred the rioters near the Arsenal. They deserved to die.

JustPlainQuirky
06-01-2014, 01:34 AM
@humble

We still have to kill them a ton of the time in missions as well.

@bmark

i remember overhearing a guard talk about a vacation plan with his wife. I was so pissed i was required to kill him.

@lieutenant

true there are jerk guards.

DumbGamerTag94
06-01-2014, 01:41 AM
@bmark

i remember overhearing a guard talk about a vacation plan with his wife. I was so pissed i was required to kill him.
.

Really? what game was that? I don't remember doing that.

JustPlainQuirky
06-01-2014, 01:44 AM
@bmark

I think it was Assassin's Creed 2. Where you must sneak through underground catacombs or something of that sort and a guard mentions how he's getting paid lots of gold just to stand there. And he cant wait to vacation with his wife or something.

I can't remember fully tho.

LieutenantRex
06-01-2014, 01:51 AM
@bmark

I think it was Assassin's Creed 2. Where you must sneak through underground catacombs or something of that sort and a guard mentions how he's getting paid lots of gold just to stand there. And he cant wait to vacation with his wife or something.

I can't remember fully tho.

Yup, you're right. His name is Lothario or something. Why couldn't Ezio just knock him out? >.> He's kind of a hypocrite, you know? His family got killed off and he goes left and right killing off others.

JustPlainQuirky
06-01-2014, 01:58 AM
I personally would love to play as a guard who may become an assassin or templar.

DumbGamerTag94
06-01-2014, 02:11 AM
I personally would love to play as a guard who may become an assassin or templar.

That could be very interesting. Imagine playing as just average joe soldier. Fight in a battle or something, do something heroic and get transferred to be a personal guard of an Assassin General or Politician, and then narrowly survive an attack that killed the person you were guarding.

You wake up wounded in the ash and smoulders of the building you guarded, only to find your superior's dead body, and maybe correspondence, or a secret room where he kept all of his assassin gear and robes? Then you follow the lead from the letter to get to the bottom of his murder.

Your motivation in the beginning is your duty as a soldier and respect for a man you were guarding. Trying to right his death and bring justice to those who committed his murder. Idk bout you but that sounds like an interesting way to begin an AC game from a new perspective. And it would give an excuse for a battlefield sequence or two!(one of my favorite things even if a few didn't feel that great cuz they felt shoehorned)

JustPlainQuirky
06-01-2014, 02:14 AM
@Bmark

omigosh...I want to play that game right now!

UBISOFT make it happen pls. K thx. :rolleyes:

DumbGamerTag94
06-01-2014, 02:29 AM
@Bmark

omigosh...I want to play that game right now!

UBISOFT make it happen pls. K thx. :rolleyes:

I know right! I pictured that as a game connecting AC4 and AC3. Playing as a British Soldier in the French and Indian War. Perhaps you serve at the siege of Louisburg under Pitcairn(or somewhere else idk where he fought) and get an honorable promotion to guard someone. The General or Governor was an ally of Achilles and you are stationed at a beautiful manor in the wilderness with snow and icicles everywhere. Perhaps at Christmas with wreaths on the door and windows and carols coming from the people at a party. As you walk around you come across a room full of soldiers and they celebrate the years victories with drinks and perhaps a chorus of Rule Britannia and Patriotic songs, as you go outside to relieve the outdoor guards and take their place..... Suddenly you are overrun by French soldiers in a Surprise attack(or maybe you are French and they British). You are nearly killed by a Templar but only are injured and become unconscious.

You wake up to the manor a charred mess, or in the process of burning. You run in and find everyone dead. The general/governor is dead in an office slumped over a desk. There are no survivors save you. You notice something strange on the desk and notice something sticking out of the Governors pocket. You read it and it is something to do with the ongoing conflict between the Templars and assassins. In the crumbling ashes of the house you notice that the fireplace in the office has a staircase hidden behind it(it is showing slightly due to the crumbling building) You walk down the passage and find a room full of all kinds of Assassin goodies(something really cool like the room in Monterrigioni where Altair's armor was not a lame basement like AC3). Down there you find his robes and other goodies. You decide to go AWOL and disguise yourself in his robes to make everyone think you died in the attack. And you spend the next several years getting to the bottom of things and becoming an Assassin.

JustPlainQuirky
06-01-2014, 02:32 AM
I think it would be better if you were attacked by an Assassin, not templar.

Guards are ordered by high power peeps who are usually templars. And normally it's the Assassins killing the guards.

I want to be a vengeful templar. :cool:

DumbGamerTag94
06-01-2014, 02:37 AM
It would be interesting to play a game from that perspective. Only the Templars don't have the same cool hooded uniforms as the Assassins to discover in the secret room. And Haytham's the only one I know of that used hidden blades. Plus the game wouldn't really deserve to be called "Assassins" Creed lol.

JustPlainQuirky
06-01-2014, 02:39 AM
The templar pope had a hood....

And Darby said a templar game could happen.

poptartz20
06-01-2014, 02:49 AM
Oh! interesting concept! Oh! maybe this is how Unity plays out. instead the guard tries to bring them together to stop the needless bloodshed of innocents such as friends BAM.

But I've always seen guards to be dispensable anyways. THEY HAVE NO NAMES OR FAMILIES! Lol.

Ureh
06-01-2014, 02:51 AM
@bmark

I think it was Assassin's Creed 2. Where you must sneak through underground catacombs or something of that sort and a guard mentions how he's getting paid lots of gold just to stand there. And he cant wait to vacation with his wife or something.

I can't remember fully tho.

The one in Santa Maria Novella? "Messer Pazzi is giving us good money to watch the door and the dead won't attack us. I can't wait to go back home to Elena and tell her how much gold we made tonight." Don't remember any vacation plans though. :p

---
Also I remember, some of the guards in begging for mercy and claiming they've a family at home.

JustPlainQuirky
06-01-2014, 02:54 AM
@ureh

the vacation might be a different guard then..


@poptarts

all the guards are secretly clones :rolleyes:

STDlyMcStudpants
06-01-2014, 03:01 AM
http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1059/5083/original.jpg

The image speaks for itself.

So many innocent fathers and husbands we probably killed. It would be nice to get a bit more of their perspective. How they get the short end of the stick so much.

These men deserve to be identified and sympathized by the player more, me thinks.

Or am I just crazy?

They'll get over it once they realize they're dead.

LoyalACFan
06-01-2014, 03:46 AM
I feel a bit silly saying it, but yeah, it somewhat bothers me when we're forced to kill guards in missions. Some of them are necessary collateral damage and I get that, but I always try to minimize casualties because I don't think an Assassin would go around brutally murdering guards left and right. With Edward and Altair it wasn't an issue, because Edward was a pirate and Altair was willing to kill anyone he needed to to get to his target (i.e. the relatively innocent informants) but with Ezio and Connor (especially Connor) it felt wrong killing so many people unnecessarily.

Outside missions, though, anything is fair game. Mostly I try to play like an Assassin, but in a map with nothing in it except guards to massacre, sooner or later I'm going to feel like going on a bloody rampage.

I-Like-Pie45
06-01-2014, 03:50 AM
Killing is never unnecessary.

Casualties and collateral are awesome.

SixKeys
06-01-2014, 04:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag_AFraxj-4

I-Like-Pie45
06-01-2014, 05:10 AM
http://venturebeat.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/682802964_8cjvu-l.jpg

STDlyMcStudpants
06-01-2014, 05:24 AM
http://venturebeat.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/682802964_8cjvu-l.jpg

lmao.. i think uncharted is actually one of the first games to ask the protagonist how much better of a person they are by throwing the number of people theyve killed in your face

Shahkulu101
06-01-2014, 07:28 AM
Well in Uncharted 2 the guards work for a tyrannical warlord who's notorious for torture crimes, so they deserve death. Not to mention they're mercenaries that kill for a living.

GunnerGalactico
06-01-2014, 09:13 AM
Wonder if they would consider putting female guards in future AC titles?

jayjay275
06-01-2014, 09:21 AM
Wonder if they would consider putting female guards in future AC titles?

AC3 had male guards with female voices. Close enough? :o

Aphex_Tim
06-01-2014, 10:37 AM
Man, if they start talking about their families or personal lives I always feel freakin' bad when I have to kill guards. The worst one has to be in AC2 when you have to clear a couple of spots in Venice for the fires to lift the flying machine. There's two guards on a ship and one is talking about how another pair of guards should have relieved them an hour ago and that his wife is going to murder him if he's late for dinner again. The other guard says something about how they should just go home and let the new guards take the fall. So naturally I just waited for them to leave but they never did, forcing me to kill them anyway. I just can't help but imagine the wife's reaction once she learns her husband's never gonna be there for dinner again; all because some other guard didn't do his job. :(

Locopells
06-01-2014, 11:35 AM
Hitman: Absolution is quite good at this - I always avoid killing the rent-a-security-guy who gets a phone call telling him he's clear of cancer, for example.

SixKeys
06-01-2014, 01:03 PM
Man, if they start talking about their families or personal lives I always feel freakin' bad when I have to kill guards. The worst one has to be in AC2 when you have to clear a couple of spots in Venice for the fires to lift the flying machine. There's two guards on a ship and one is talking about how another pair of guards should have relieved them an hour ago and that his wife is going to murder him if he's late for dinner again. The other guard says something about how they should just go home and let the new guards take the fall. So naturally I just waited for them to leave but they never did, forcing me to kill them anyway. I just can't help but imagine the wife's reaction once she learns her husband's never gonna be there for dinner again; all because some other guard didn't do his job. :(

I know what you mean. In cases like that where I feel bad for the guards, I take them down with my fists, so it technically doesn't count as a kill. Of course, in the Ezio games this usually means breaking their necks or some other painful move, but I just pretend he used a Vulcan neck grip. :p

JustPlainQuirky
06-01-2014, 01:31 PM
@locopels

yeah but the developers did that one on purpose for laughs :rolleyes:
( i mean if you're talking about the guy at the window)

Locopells
06-01-2014, 03:08 PM
Yep, that one - and yeah, they did a lot of that, but even so, it still makes them seem more human.

JustPlainQuirky
06-01-2014, 03:17 PM
Pixels and Polygons, my dear boy...


http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Monocle-man_545.gif


Ah who am I kidding. I just cried like a baby at Transistor's ending

LoyalACFan
06-01-2014, 11:51 PM
lmao.. i think uncharted is actually one of the first games to ask the protagonist how much better of a person they are by throwing the number of people theyve killed in your face

Lolno. MGS3 literally threw the bloody, bullet-riddled ghosts of your victims in your face and had them scream "YOU ATE ME!" if you ate a vulture that had picked their carcass.

STDlyMcStudpants
06-02-2014, 12:22 AM
Lolno. MGS3 literally threw the bloody, bullet-riddled ghosts of your victims in your face and had them scream "YOU ATE ME!" if you ate a vulture that had picked their carcass.

Oh. I have yet to play that game :P

STDlyMcStudpants
06-02-2014, 12:26 AM
Hitman: Absolution is quite good at this - I always avoid killing the rent-a-security-guy who gets a phone call telling him he's clear of cancer, for example.

lmao but killing him gives you a trophy :D

Locopells
06-02-2014, 01:09 AM
Well yes, I've done that...

itsamea-mario
06-03-2014, 03:38 AM
It's almost like the assassins are people who's lives revolve around killing.

JustPlainQuirky
06-03-2014, 04:00 AM
Assassins have been established as a philosophy, darby said. He even said there can be pacifist assassins.

So that's not technically accurate in this universe.

Even if it was, it doesn't excuse merciless killing.

I-Like-Pie45
06-03-2014, 04:01 AM
yes it does

JustPlainQuirky
06-03-2014, 04:03 AM
Oh Pie. You and your American nationalism shtick. Do you change shticks every month or so? http://i.imgur.com/RaZaUzO.gif



AHHHH A THOUSAND POSTS YAA BOI

itsamea-mario
06-03-2014, 04:12 AM
They aren't supposed to be superheroes, they never were. They've tried giving the assassins some kind of moral high ground from which they can walk around like jesus returned, but without removing the things that directly contradict that attitude like the merciless and thoughtless slaughter of old tim the night guard. I believe it's called ludonarrative dissonance, e.g. AC3 Connor takes issue with Haytham killing several people, whilst throughout the game we are encouraged to brutally murder everyone who glows red.
They should go all one way or another, have us just be painted as an world weary killer whom after years of being told to kill his targets has begun to lose his empathy and no longer objects to taking the easy option and killing everyone in his path.
Or as a benevolent pacifist who avoids killing at all cost, and have the game actually discourage it, whilst giving us some decent alternatives.

They're screwing with the moral greyness they always boast about.

JustPlainQuirky
06-03-2014, 04:23 AM
I never said for them to be super heroes, but I agree.

I don't think guards should glow red. At least not when your notoriety is low.

phoenix-force411
06-03-2014, 05:58 AM
I'd say KILL! Let agony and revenge reign!

Ureh
06-03-2014, 06:09 AM
I just realised that I desync for every 100 guards I kill in ACR. Hmmm

Kirokill
06-03-2014, 10:58 AM
I just realised that I desync for every 100 guards I kill in ACR. Hmmm

Really? I never noticed that.

DinoSteve1
06-03-2014, 11:13 AM
tbf you have to bare in mind that this is a game killing guards is there to keep us as player entertained, I highly doubt that an Assassin would run around killing random guards if it were real, he wouldn't be a very good Assassin then, you could also look at it as an Assassin defending himself or that it is set in a brutal age and the characters we see have a different value system then we do, for the most part modern Assassins seem content with only killing people from abstergo.

Markaccus
06-03-2014, 12:12 PM
To br fair,the guards tend to pick on assassins anyway. Lets take acb borgia towers or acr towers as examples. The guards around these areas let everyone wander around, unless they are wearing a hoodie, in which case they instantly become suspicious and try to kill you. Add this to the fact that they let groups of theives hang around on roof tops, but not you, then we can say we have every right to chuck them off buildings and murder them in the face. They are working happily with oppressive regiems after all.

Shahkulu101
06-03-2014, 12:25 PM
To br fair,the guards tend to pick on assassins anyway. Lets take acb borgia towers or acr towers as examples. The guards around these areas let everyone wander around, unless they are wearing a hoodie, in which case they instantly become suspicious and try to kill you. Add this to the fact that they let groups of theives hang around on roof tops, but not you, then we can say we have every right to chuck them off buildings and murder them in the face. They are working happily with oppressive regiems after all.

Exactly this. Especially the bold - the guards are asshats and I have no qualms about stabbing them.

Markaccus
06-03-2014, 12:33 PM
Exactly this. Especially the bold - the guards are asshats and I have no qualms about stabbing them.

LOL.... Asshats! Always makes me chuckle, that one.

Shahkulu101
06-03-2014, 12:48 PM
LOL.... Asshats! Always makes me chuckle, that one.

Best way to explain an irritating and generally unpleasant group. I hate the guards - how I loved it when Ezio crushed their thick skulls.

Markaccus
06-03-2014, 12:55 PM
Best way to explain an irritating and generally unpleasant group. I hate the guards - how I loved it when Ezio crushed their thick skulls.

I like that Spine-snapping noise that you get if you stealth assassinate them without having the hidden blade equipped. He uses bare hands instead. I love that.

Shahkulu101
06-03-2014, 12:58 PM
I like that Spine-snapping noise that you get if you stealth assassinate them without having the hidden blade equipped. He uses bare hands instead. I love that.

Oh and stamps full force right on their temples as they lie helplessly on the ground!

Markaccus
06-03-2014, 01:03 PM
Aye. Can't beat a kick to the face when dispensing righteous justice..... The ones who get to live are the ones who grow a brain and run away.

Ureh
06-03-2014, 03:46 PM
Really? I never noticed that.


Oh no, sorry about that. I only meant that it might be the game is punishing me for killing so many guards... like a curse? :p