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Mike8686
07-08-2004, 12:25 PM
These aircraft are like super aircraft! Are there any disadvantages that they have that can be axploited against them in the air.

Mike8686
07-08-2004, 12:25 PM
These aircraft are like super aircraft! Are there any disadvantages that they have that can be axploited against them in the air.

geetarman
07-08-2004, 12:34 PM
In RL - I don't know. In the game - not really!

The only thing I notice is that if you can get an LA-7 above 3000m, a P-51, at least, can handle it, no problem.

Sandman_UK
07-08-2004, 12:41 PM
the only disadvanted to these planes that i can recall is that the LA7 can be a little flighty at low altitude in a slow turn flight! problem is quite a few other planes show this charactaristic as well. The Ki is good in all departments and you r only chance is to out fly them, one hit though they do damage quite easily. As for the Yak, i am not clued in enough on that plane, sorry!

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Covino
07-08-2004, 12:55 PM
If you can't beat em, join em. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Or grab a fast/good climbing plane and run when you see one of em. :P

griego
07-08-2004, 01:04 PM
Take them high. atleast the la7 and the yak not sure how the ki handles up high.

It also depends on what plane your flying.
If it's a high alt plane like the p47 or p51 or 152h or me109-10/14 and some others that handle well in high alt.

The la7 is a low to medium alt plane and so it the yak. the Ki was suppose to be a great plane. If you meet one run.

RCAF_Hawk2
07-08-2004, 01:28 PM
LOL do like me fly out dated early war planes that way they will under estimate you and go for more "dangerous" opponets . you would be surrprised on how many la-7 i shoot down with my b-239 in fr servs and ki in my mig -3 am38 lol I fought a p-51 d one night for over 7 mins in my b-239 and we both went home beat up out ammo and low on fuel.

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Jaws2002
07-08-2004, 03:51 PM
They all have one major weakness: they can't dive.

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KGr.HH-Sunburst
07-08-2004, 04:00 PM
like Jaws said the La7 and Yak3/9 they break up earlier in a dive then most axis or US planes BUTdiving away to the deck to escape from a la7 is not gonna win you the fight (except if they are stupid enough to dive with you ) but a n00b will only do it once lol so if you dont have a great alt advantage your pretty much doomed when up against an equal or close skilled pilot
EXCEPT you can always stall fight La7s and Yaks in a 109 but that is very risky and you have to be confedent http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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eXtra_Corrosiv
07-08-2004, 04:04 PM
bs... the la7 can dive, just invert. the only thing you can do to an la7 is to run him out of ammo.

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KGr.HH-Sunburst
07-08-2004, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eXtra_Corrosiv:
bs... the la7 can dive, just invert. the only thing you can do to an la7 is to run him out of ammo.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hhhmm didnt know that lol i almost never fly kiddy clown planes only a few nights ago i had to fly red to keep the teams a bit fair so i grabbed a La7 and a dived on a me262 from 3k and was going 790kph IAS before i broke off one aeleron hehe still couldnt catch that 262 tho

i think the la7 can dive with a 109 but not with a FW (not inverted)

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LuftLuver
07-08-2004, 04:18 PM
Yak3 has several. A P51 for example will handle it just fine as long as the fight is kept high and fast. Spray him once with the 6 .50s and its uber flight characteristics are gone. Above 500kph, the Yak's elevator effectiveness really declines which is easy to exploit.

As a very last resort, the Yak3 has a gnat's portion of ammo, so jink well and you might escape. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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VW-IceFire
07-08-2004, 04:39 PM
Yak-3's aren't terribly good at high speed or good at loosing that speed so if you sucker someone into a Split-S followed by a spiral you can escape them potentially by forcing them to match speeds with a more manuverable plane at high speeds (FW190, P-47, and P-51 especially). The Yak-3 is easiest to beat of these 3 because of that attribute...it gives it a very balanced overall impact...its not particularly overdone really.

The La-7 is darned hard to beat. Its very fast, manuvers well, and has plenty of firepower. Couple of things to use against it...the first is speed and once again the La-7 is not particularly good at high speed. Better than the Yak but not particularly good. It does bleed speed in a hurry if you need it to so thats sometimes a moot point. Best thing to do is bounce them and blast them apart in the first pass. If you can damage a wing then they are usually very hard to handle and easier targets.

The Ki-84 is the hardest of the three to beat. Excellent engine power, roll rate that doesn't decline at speed (I believe it should...but it doesn't), excellent manuverability at all speeds. The only thing it doesn't have is taking damage well. You'll spend alot of time making a Ki-84 die...but you can wound one pretty serverely in a couple of shots. Aim for the wings and make their life unpleasant. Some (not all) pilots who fly the 84 are newer pilots and tend not to be able to handle their plane in adverse conditions like battle damage.

All three of these are susceptible to damage that makes flying them much harder than other types that are more resistant (but less easily to fly overall).

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georgeo76
07-08-2004, 05:12 PM
If your online, play in FR servers. It won't matter what he's flying if he doesn't see you coming http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nub_322Sqn
07-08-2004, 05:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eXtra_Corrosiv:
bs... the la7 can dive, just invert. the only thing you can do to an la7 is to run him out of ammo.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMAO, fighting LA7's is not that hard, just stay fast when you attack them and if they try to catch you by matching your speed their controls are too slugish to do much manuevering.
Same for the Yak3, they cannot fight a fast fight, only a slow fight.

Don't know about the Ki's because I never fly them since Japanese planes are not my thing.

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TheGozr
07-08-2004, 05:28 PM
The Yak3 and la7 have big weaknesses.
Easily down if the other planes know it. and very hard to beat when the yak and la pilots know their weakness.

Like every planes each their own weakness the goal it to know them and deal with them that the beauty of the Sims http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

After that is a mind war to know what next and what the adversary move will be.

To my opinion it take skill to fly well a yak3, sesnitive rudder and Mixtures fighting unlike A's a d's plane or P's automation http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
-GOZR
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scootertgm
07-08-2004, 05:35 PM
I love to take a A6m2 and simply out turn them. You'd be surprised how many times I've dropped LA7's and KI's because they try and turn fight with me. Until they get smart and try and extend you'll bag them every time, you just have to be patient.

TheGozr
07-08-2004, 05:39 PM
I love to get the A6m2 when they think that they can fight any yak http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Humor" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BTW i starting to like to fly the first yak9, this one can turn inside yak 3's whem well flown. but no a quicky one

-GOZR
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Maj_Death
07-08-2004, 05:49 PM
B&Z the Yak-3, it is very agile but by far the slowest 1944 plane in game. Even most 1943 fighters can outrun it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. BTW I'm not exaggerating, it really is that slow.

As for the La-7 I find the Me-262 a good plane to fly against it. You only have a speed advantage so strict B&Z is the only thing that works but with 4x30mm cannons it doesn't take too many passes to down him. If the Me-262 is banned (which it probebly is) then I recommend flying insanely high and hoping to get the jump on him. Another thing that may work is flying a biplane or some other super agile early war bird. Alot of La-7 pilots arn't all that great at the whole flying thing so you can usually sucker them into turn fighting you.

The Ki-84 is agile and climbs good but isn't all that fast. Both the P-38J and P-51D can outrun it fairly easily.

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BombTaxi
07-08-2004, 06:01 PM
Yaks and La-series fighters generally suffer from weak armament and low ammo loadout..they wont hurt you too much or for too long if you're careful. The La7 is fast, but can be caught. BnZ works well against the Yak (as already mentioned). The Ki84 is very lightly built (like all Japanese aircraft). Give it a good burst and it will be limping for home in a very sorry state http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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Atomic_Marten
07-08-2004, 06:04 PM
It really is simple. They have superiority in almost everything. Someone mentioned running away, you have faster plane (Bf series), or something like that. But I'll tell u; if u run into LA7 pilot that know what he's doing than you have no chance at all. You can run but u cannot hide (BTW LA7 is fast bird).

About Yak's they are slow, yes, but have advantages in just about everything (including good balanced weaponry --- in my opinion best weapons for dogfight).

And all comes to this conclusion: whatever you do in other planes, you'll do it in LA's or Yak's even better. I find it to be a little annoying. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
07-08-2004, 07:19 PM
Just to repeat what others have said the Yak-3 is too slow and is most easily defeated out of the three mentioned. Not very good high speed handling and dive either so proper BnZ or hit and run tactics should work fine.

Ki-84, don't know much about it though I know it is a great all-around performer. Still, I can't see it being anything the Mustang can't handle.

La-7, I disagree about controls and dive. They used to be exploitable but the La-7 now dives quite well and controls stay pretty responsive unlike La-5. However, if jumped and at a disadvantage a dive is still your best bet with a reversal at specific altitute to make following impossible or at least very risky. A lesser skilled pilot will often follow and come apart, the better pilots will break off and maneuver back into position but you may gain enough of an advantage to disengage and drag him to friendlies or home base. Also, FW-190D is superior to La-7 up high with higher top speed (especially around 5,500m). Dragging and bagging can work up high. Which brings me to my next point:

The most important thing is proper tactics and a good wingman, this will defeat any adversary. Plain and simple.

(As a note I only play on full-switch, or as near to full-switch as possible)

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LuftLuver
07-08-2004, 07:56 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BombTaxi:
Yaks and La-series fighters generally suffer from weak armament QUOTE]

You may be getting caught up in "bash the Yak" euphoria. I recognize the onset, so open your window for fresh air immediately. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

In average hands, the La7 3 x 20mm are among the hardest hitting weapons in the game. In skilled hands, the Yak3 with simply the 2 x 12.7mm and 1 x 20mm will saw you up with the accuracy of a scalpel. Let's not even discuss the Yak3-P, hey?

For those mentioning that the Ki84 has a low tolerance for damage, may I suggest you also open a few windows just to be safe. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

All in fun.

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WUAF_Badsight
07-08-2004, 11:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
I love to get the A6m2 when they think that they can fight any yak http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Humor" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BTW i starting to like to fly the first yak9, this one can turn inside yak 3's whem well flown. but no a quicky one

-GOZR
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no Yak3 can beat any Zero in FB with constant turns

take the russian planes high

get hits on the Hayate & hes deadmeat

Hayates are hard to blow up but soooo easy to hurt

.
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WUAF_Badsight
07-08-2004, 11:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftLuver:



For those mentioning that the Ki84 has a low tolerance for damage, may I suggest you also open a few windows just to be safe. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the Hayate are very eaislyy hurt

they loose lots of performance after wing hits

even small wing hits

but the Hayate is a hard plane to blow up

it looses wings in diving easy

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CaptainGelo
07-09-2004, 12:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftLuver:



For those mentioning that the Ki84 has a low tolerance for damage, may I suggest you also open a few windows just to be safe. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the Hayate are very eaislyy hurt

they loose lots of performance after wing hits

even small wing hits

but the Hayate is a hard plane to blow up

it looses wings in diving easy

.
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actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yaks getting even wors after very few hits....espesialy late yaks...


just go high vs them.....and dont turn with them more then 90*....if you'r at low at make sure you got alt advantage...and if you are low and slow in P47 or plane like that, best thing you can do is go headon....

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OldMan____
07-09-2004, 05:36 AM
Simple... RAM them ALL!!!! Because.. brute force solves everything!!!!

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

Nanuk66
07-09-2004, 05:45 AM
Ive shot the **** outta KI-84's before online, usually in a P51/P69 etc and nothing brings the flying tanks down.

I think, imo, the KI's are alot more durable than people are making out here..

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------------------------------

robban75
07-09-2004, 09:25 AM
I fly the Fw 190D-9 most of the time, and when comparing its performance to the La-7, the D-9 has few strengths. Manouverability at extremely high speeds, and maximum dive speed, that's about it. Even though the La-7 was built to excell at low alt, it is a dangerous opponent for the D-9 even at high altitudes in-game, mostly because it has a better rate of climb than the the D-9 from ground level and up to at least 8000m. In RL the D-9 had no problem outdiving VVS fighters. Its high wing loading gave it relatively poor turning abilities, but on the other hand it offered low drag at high airpspeeds. Hence dive acceleration, speed and zoom climbs were its strongest attributes. To outdive an La-7 in-game one has to reach almost terminal velocity in order to escape as ALL planes in FB has the same acceleration.

The Jumo gave the D-9 good enough power to turn with the VVS fighters at altitudes from 3000m and up. You wont see this in-game unforunatelly.

If you really want to beat the La-7 and Yak-3 without difficulty, take a J8 or I-153 and you'll be safe. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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F19_Ob
07-09-2004, 10:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike8686:
These aircraft are like super aircraft! Are there any disadvantages that they have that can be axploited against them in the air.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is just my personal experience under a few years of testing.

La7 and yak3 are some of the best planes on russian side. If they manage to catch a 109 or fw190 anywhere near the same speed at altitudes below 3000m they will win most fights.

The fw190 have the best chance to escape because of its fast rollrate and can take a few hits, but there is no question who is dictating the fight.

The 109 is a goner in most cases exept with huge energy advantage and mostly one or a few hits will disable it out of fighting condition.

As always the 109 can succed in a bounce but not equalspeed combat with an alerted enemy one vs one. On altitudes of 3000 and up the situation changes and its here the 109K4 shines in climb and its about equal to the yak3 exept for armament where the yak is the winner (very little lead and few hits required), also the visibility is better in both yaks and La7.
The 3 cannon La7 has good punch but the yak3 is more agile and can shoot soner because of the fastfiring machineguns wich has flat trajectory and hardhitting at long distance.
If u use the ammo sparingly its absolutely enough for 4 to 5 fighters although some claim to have shot down 7 .
I sometimes dont use the cannon when flying the yak3 as airfield gard since its really not nescessary. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif no i'm not kidding. The real yak3 pilots were very happy with the mg's and some claimed that the trajectory of the bullets was so flat U even didnt have to use the gunsight, just point the nose at the target and U hit, Golodnikov was one of those who claimed the later mg's being this good.
-------------------------------

If U feel this to be inacurate; plz record a few tracks on GreaterGreen or F16server and make your own judgement. 4 or five tracks should be enough.

Its not unusual to see a single yak3 or La7 outmaneuvering 4 to 5 bf109s over the axis airfield and two yak3's can supress the airfield if they are experienced (on low altitude).
-----------------------------------------------

Additional note:
Sometimes a bunch of flyers go from axis to allied side to "flip the map" (end it faster) and the choice of plane is often yak3 or La7.


Hmmmmm............sadly this last bit is true.

F19_Ob
07-09-2004, 11:18 AM
Blast! I forgot the weaknesses.

Both yak3 and La7 have less performance above
3000m So if u fly axis see to it that u have atleast this hight over the target area.

Its best to avoid equalspeedfights with an alerted enemy (yak3 or La7) and to fly atleast in pairs.
Go for bounces and try snapshots at enemies in a furball. these snapshots are often highangledeflectionsshots since the planes constantly turns in the furball and therefore difficult and there is a great risk that u loose precious energy while trying to draw deflection.
I like the 109 best but actually the fw190 is better against yak3 and La7, because of the good roll at high speed wich the 109 cant do.
Although the 109k4 have an advantage over both yaks and La7 in dive. Its the only 109 that can go up to 890Km/h in the dive and most yaks start to break around 780 (if I recall correctly) and La7 will break closely after.
The problem though is to get out of gunrange fast enough, and its here the yak3 is deadly. It can swing around in no time at low altitude and get a longrange snapshot at a bnz'er that just has made hiss attack. This is why I recomend a slow spiralclimb away from a yak so he will loose his energy faster when trying to lead the shot.
Yak3 is good at low altitude at top speed, but when it has begun to overheat it will have problems if deep in enemy land and he will overheat when he tries to climb (similar to the spits) and this its biggest weakness and a dream for Fw190's. Its usually the overheated yaks that fall for the enemy. (my opinion)

Odranoel1
07-09-2004, 04:16 PM
I fly (and really like) the Ki84 a lot.
There are 3 situations where I usually lose against axis fighters:

&gt; ennemy has major E advantage and knows how to use it
&gt; ennemy has a wingman and radio comms
&gt; I'm dumb enough to engage into a furball and russian roulette gets me

Since Version 2.1 The Ki 84 has acquired nasty stall characteristics (stalls without warning in tight manoeuvers). If you're good at TnB, hang on and wait for the KI driver to stall. Many will eventually...

As somebody else put it very courteously, we Ki drivers tend to be beginners, and are easy preys for seasoned pros! Fair enough!

See you online!

BennyMoore
07-10-2004, 12:05 AM
Yesterday I was in a P-38 L. I was at two thousand five hundred meters, and there was a Ki-84 one thousand five hundred meters below me. I thought I'd zoom and boom him, but I never got the chance. He pointed his nose straight up and climbed one thousand five hundred meters. I thought that he would then fall, allowing me to get on his tail like I usually do, so I kept flying straight and level (in the position in which we were in, any other plane would have ended up below and in front of me). However, instead of having his nose point earthward like it should have (and which any other plane, even a La-7, does) after a one thousand five hundred meter climb, he leveled off in less than three seconds and pulled his nose up at me! I had to jink about to keep myself out of his gunsights, but it was useless, because without having to spend any time regaining speed he just set about turn fighting me. He came right out of a one thousand five hundred meter vertical zoom climb and with less than three seconds of pause and, without his nose ever dropping below the horizon to regain the speed he should have lost, proceeded to stick to my tail like glue! I could not believe it. I never try to outturn Ki-84s in a P-38, but when they end up right on your tail immediately after a zoom climb, what can you do?

I even have my suspicions that he was cheating, but sadly I have noted on all of my six jaunts in the Ki-84 (each of which gained me at least one kill with nearly no effort) that that is its main asset - it can resume hard manuevering (manuevers that would burn energy on any other fighter) immediately after a climb that would leave any other plane in a stall.

La-7s don't have any single unrealistic trait like that, but they are simply the fastest propeller aircraft in the game, break up at the same speed as most BF-109s, can outturn all planes at all speeds (except for the ultra low speed turners that no one takes seriously, like the I-16), can climb better than any other aircraft, can take hits like you wouldn't believe, has arguably the best (although not the hardest hitting) armament of any fighter, et cetera! The only way you can beat a La-7 (whenever I say that I'm assuming roughly equal pilots are involved) is with a huge altitude advantage and by getting in a good shot early. If you let the fight progress for a while, he will soon gain the upper hand.

The Yak again almost outturns everything, but it is not quite as fast (though they'll still catch most other planes). Unfortunately, they have this unrealistic advantage of being able to always point their nose at you, even when they have zero airspeed and are just starting to fall backwards. Zoom and boomers, beware. I haven't figured out how to avoid this. P-51s are the only United States plane that I can regularly kill Yaks with (the P-51 is the closest Western plane to a superplane).

The Mig is not a true superplane, as many planes can defeat it with proper tactics, but the P-38 cannot beat it (again, I'm assuming roughly equal pilots) even with a good altitude advantage. The Mig is faster than the P-38 and can outmanuever it with ease. You can't zoom and boom it because the pilot can jink out of the way using only a fraction of his turning ability, and every missed pass is another shovel full of dirt from your grave plot; due to his higher speed, he will eventually catch up to you. I confess that I do not know how to defeat the Mig in a P-38.

Whenever I meet any of these three Superplanes - the Ki-84, the La-7, the Yak (and also the Mig if I'm flying the P-38) - I invariably get tired of trying to beat them in all of my realistic planes (P-38, P-40 E, BF-109 G-2, BF-109 K-4, et cetera) and without fail, I turn to another Russian plane to finally win over them. The Lag is the only Russian plane that I will fly. It is almost a superplane as well, but it has not enough speed and almost no ammunition, so you can't hang around their base and keep them from ever getting into the air the way some Yak pilots will. In the Lag, you're limited to a very few kills - one or two, or three or four if you're very lucky.

TheGozr
07-10-2004, 12:47 AM
BF-109 G-2, BF-109 K-4

Heark! Humm humm BS.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/images/IOCompetition.jpg &lt;--Competition Level IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/)

VW-IceFire
07-10-2004, 08:24 AM
BennyMoore...I more or less agree. The Ki-84 is certainly in need of some attention having seen exactly the same sort of thing before. Despite attacking with massive advantage I was shot down by numerous Ki-84's and I've not yet discovered a way to strictly beat them. Every other plane I know where I went wrong but with this one I can't do it...having done a little reading I know that its one of the best WWII fighters available (if you discount the maintence problems it had) but I believe it should start to roll slowly and manuver more poorly at high speeds... Currently it manuvers the same regardless of speed which is odd.

NaNuK66...yes it takes alot to actually down one...but not nearly as much to make the pilots life absolutely miserable. Fly the Ki-84 and get hit by a bit of 20mm or a spray of .50cal in one of the wings. Suddenly you are really fighting to keep it airborne. Certainly after hitting one in a wing it becomes less dangerous. Actually scoring a kill is another thing...

You can also sucker some Ki-84 pilots if they are new at it to black themselves out (since the plane manuvers the same at 200 kph and 600 kph). It happens to me alot whenever I've flown the plane. I find the Yak's are the best for this since they get sluggish and you can rarely ever black out in a high speed pullout (you can become a lawn dart however).

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Bull_dog_
07-10-2004, 03:50 PM
The Yak can be defeated...like most have said. The La is super tough and probably the toughest low level "realistic" opponent...by that I mean I do believe the FM to be close to historically accurate (it was a real good dogfighter IRL), but I also believe the La has an unrealistic DM. Wood just doesn't make for a tough aircraft, especially under G loads...tails fall off and that sort of thing.

The Ki is the one that drives me to madness. The only real mediocre trait it has is turning abilitly and that doesn't do much good except in a furball.

Like Benny Moore...I was flying a P-51D and had about 1500 meters altitude on two Ki's and they were climging to meet me so I knew I had a great deal of energy on them...I was about 6800 meters. I dove and shot one of them and left him trailing fuel and proceeded to extend and climb to 7200 meters (the optimum performance altitude for a Mustang).

My intention was to extend slightly and spiral climb away and come up on the wounded guy and try to even the odds. The Mustang can outclimb most single engined fighters at this altitude, including some of the 109's... Unfortunately the Ki closed the distance and actually outran me in level flight at 7200 meters!!! I had a friendly behind me and I dove towards him and he nailed one of them...the fuel leaker was staying with both of us...then another Ki showed up and I again extended away at 5000 meters and the two Ki's came after me...caught me and proceeded to shoot me down. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

The only thing I know to do with a Ki is fly one...when I do, I almost never get shot down unless I get into a furball...it is the hardest of all opponents. Oleg has the thing performing better than a Mustang at altitude, so don't climb away from it and don't out run it... I think it is more vulnerable at low altitude than anywhere and the best I try to do is get it into a turn fight. A P-39 will kill it there, and a P-51 can usually hang with it, but not necessarily beat it...ususally whoever gets a wingman to show up first wins that battle. Going after a Ki in a P-47 or P-38 is a very risky venture....if the Ki doesn't jink too much, those planes can hurt it, but the DM is so tough, I don't recall ever having killed a Ki on a single pass in a B&Z posture.

They are tough to fight no doubt about it and I try to avoid fighting in servers that have them and when I get frustrated...I switch sides, but I just don't like fighting in a plane that requires so little thinking so I then go off line. Give me a Fw or a P-38 and you have a plane that has some strengths and some glaring weaknesses...you fly smart or die dumb....the way it should be.

Capt.LoneRanger
07-10-2004, 05:28 PM
In the end it's all about tactics. A good fighter-pilot is not somebody who manages his own a/c, but also the one who knows strengths and weaknesses of the opponent. If you want to get learn about these, you have got the great opportunity, to test them personally http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

In RL La5 and La7 were indeed good fighters, but like Ta152 La7 came too late to get into real action. Yes, they were pretty good against the few German pilots that were still alive and flying then...
The fact is, that the La7 was brilliant design, but lousy manufactured and used low-quality parts. A whole squadron sent to Indochina after WW2 was grounded within a few weeks, because the wooden structure was rotten beyond repair.
Pitty things like reliability are not modelled in IL2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BTW, a good method against Ki's is to stay low and slow. Saw many brave KI-pilots crash after diving on my old P40... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

greets
Capt.LoneRanger


Why is 6 afraid of 7? Cause 7 8 9!

BennyMoore
07-12-2004, 02:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bull_dog_:
The La is super tough and probably the toughest low level "realistic" opponent...by that I mean I do believe the FM to be close to historically accurate (it was a real good dogfighter IRL)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was it really the fastest propeller driven aircraft of the war, though, as well as being that good of a turner and climber? I'm having a hard time with this.

Atomic_Marten
07-12-2004, 03:34 AM
Again me. Let me tell u the best way of finding their weakneses (if any): go offline QMB. Than set fight 1 on 1 vs. LA7 on 'ace' level. U can fly on normal settings + icons on. Then u will see the real deal.

I fly Fw190D vs. LA7. The only way (works about 90% of times - another 10% is my bad controlling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif) u can beat it is loop after loop BnZing it constantly, 'till u get clear shot.

With Bf109G10 vs. LA7 I even win in turning with very low speeds and must be on edge of stall (ideal speed for turning battle 210-220kmh switching flaps in raised/combat/takeoff). After a while AI gives up (or get tired of being on your 6 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) and that's your chance.

However this all tactic works if AI don't get u head-on, or you make mistake and give it an opportunity for clear shot. In that case you are toasted.

This all works offline fine, but once you're online against real players you don't have a chance. Well you stand better chance in Fw190D IMO (although I spend more time on Bf109's they really cannot match LA7). And take 25% fuel. Also helps improving performance. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

AH_Solid_Snake
07-12-2004, 04:33 AM
Just to add my 2 cents here, as much as its important to know what your opponent is capable of, its even more important to know what your own aircraft can do, my example is that i fly the Spit IXc so for me its turning and spiral climbs/dives that work best.

With that in mind you can bag whoever you like, once you're latched onto someones tail it doesnt really matter who it is because 9 times out of 10 they are looking at bagging someone else and wont know about you till your shells take their wing off.

If on the other hand someone gets on your tail then its important to remember - and im gonna put this in caps because no one i've seen online seems to YOU ARE A FIGHTER PILOT (any bomber pilots sorry, not you) which means you are never on the defensive, so many people turn and run, or start doing pretty aerobatics when someone is behind them, the thing you should think about is, sure that guy is behind me, im just in a poor offensive position, then do something about it. Try a spiral dive to make him break off or loose you for a second then a quick reversal and before you know it you're nose to nose instead of nose to tail, then some rudimentary lead turns are good enough against the majority of the super plane pilots, who as people have said dont seem to know much about flying.

Sorry about the length of the post but what i mean is its more about attitude than what the aircraft can or cant do.

Solid Snake

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/snake.jpg

alarmer
07-12-2004, 04:56 AM
"he _leveled off in less than three seconds and pulled his nose up at me"

As a Axis pilot I and my squad mates usually go down because of this unrealistic trait which some VVS planes posses.

Thanks to heavy elevators we usually BnZ VVS planes but then have hard time pulling out of dive with Bf109. At this time VVS pilot lifts hes nose up with zero energy left and shoots our engines out.

I wish oleg would look into this, I just wont accept that VVS planes can do this and not stall right away.

Atomic_Marten
07-12-2004, 08:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AH_Solid_Snake:
Just to add my 2 cents here, as much as its important to know what your opponent is capable of, its even more important to know what your own aircraft can do, my example is that i fly the Spit IXc so for me its turning and spiral climbs/dives that work best.

With that in mind you can bag whoever you like, once you're latched onto someones tail it doesnt really matter who it is because 9 times out of 10 they are looking at bagging someone else and wont know about you till your shells take their wing off.

If on the other hand someone gets on your tail then its important to remember - and im gonna put this in caps because no one i've seen online seems to YOU ARE A FIGHTER PILOT (any bomber pilots sorry, not you) which means you are never on the defensive, so many people turn and run, or start doing pretty aerobatics when someone is behind them, the thing you should think about is, sure that guy is behind me, im just in a poor offensive position, then do something about it. Try a spiral dive to make him break off or loose you for a second then a quick reversal and before you know it you're nose to nose instead of nose to tail, then some rudimentary lead turns are good enough against the majority of the super plane pilots, who as people have said dont seem to know much about flying.

Sorry about the length of the post but what i mean is its more about attitude than what the aircraft can or cant do.

Solid Snake

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/snake.jpg

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely... the only pilot who can match that strategy is AI on ACE level (in most cases) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif. Also agreed --never to shoot untill you're 90% sure that u will hit your oppo, and that way deny him any evasive manoeuvres before he is damaged one way or another--.

Intruder_GP
07-12-2004, 09:43 AM
Bottom Line...You can fly any of these three crafts in question and the best Pilot will win http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

flying a Yak3-P I could kill the La and Ki without a problem.

Only caution I would advise is avoid the Ki head one.

AH_Solid_Snake
07-12-2004, 09:55 AM
I would agree that the three aircraft in question will match up against each other, however i think the point of the original post was that flying other planes against these is difficult, which cannot be denied.

My post was meant to say that its tricky but there are ways to bring them down, and consistently, i agree with most of the points, we've all seen these aircraft do things that made us say "hang on just a tad there".

Something to remember though is that these planes are what keeps FB going. if you bear with me, its these superplanes that new people fly, because theres nothing worse than loosing all the time, or being a poor shot and running out of ammo. Its important to get kills quick for most new players to get their gratification. Thats why this game is more popular than say lock on, which requires quite a bit of learning before you can bag anything, so this is what keeps FB etc popular and garuntees that oleg and co can keep making new sims, as annoying as it is.

What i would say is not to oleg to change the FM/DM of these machines, but to the new players that yes, acknowledge they are really there for learners and to move on to another plane. The trouble is they've learned in an easy plane so once they are moderately good they get massive kills/points, they dont want to give that up for another machine.

If you look at the other aircraft, each of them has some characteristics that the superplanes have, but are lacking in other areas.

The point is, if you want speed, you loose turning, want armament? its heavy so you may have a stall prone machine, but if you want kills as most people who try FB from CS and the like want, then its the KI and its massive guns for low accuracy heaving stick action that gets them the points.

The KI will be the death of us, but the savior of our sim.

Solid Snake

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/snake.jpg

BennyMoore
07-12-2004, 11:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alarmer:
"he _leveled off in less than three seconds and pulled his nose up at me"

As a Axis pilot I and my squad mates usually go down because of this unrealistic trait which some VVS planes posses.

Thanks to heavy elevators we usually BnZ VVS planes but then have hard time pulling out of dive with Bf109. At this time VVS pilot lifts hes nose up with zero energy left and shoots our engines out.

I wish oleg would look into this, I just wont accept that VVS planes can do this and not stall right away.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm with you one hundred percent on this, but the usual Yak balogna about constantly pointing his nose at you even with no air moving over the controls, or even air flowing backwards over the controls, isn't what I'm talking about with that particular case. While the Yak (and probably other Russian planes) can always point its nose at you no matter what its airspeed (which is annoying and unrealistic and downright gay when you think about it), the Ki can do that after climbing a kilometer or two and then instantly be ready to make a constant turn, without ever regaining lost airspeed, or even keep climbing if he so wishes. Even the Yak, which always points its nose at you and shoots accurately even when he is falling backwards and you are directly above him, has to gain some airspeed back after this cute little trick before he can pull it again. No plane but the Ki can just start a constant turn after climbing a kilometer and a half without the nose dropping first to gain airspeed. And that's what's making me tear out my hair.

While the La-7 is too fast, too maneuverable, too durable and generally overmodelled, it doesn't have any physically impossible or even physically unrealistic traits. The Yak has that little no-airflow-required elevator, but is otherwise physically possible (and, I'd venture, not much overmodelled if at all except for that airflow thing). But the Ki-84 has all of that and also the ability to climb like a jet and no need to regain airspeed before maneuvering.

The six or seven times I've flown it, I've absolutely devastated my opponents. I can't claim the same about the Yak or even the La-7. But I've never been hit in my few times in the Ki-84, and I've quite noticed and taken advantage of this undiminishable energy supply.

hughlb2
07-13-2004, 05:16 AM
I can't wait for BoB. Early model aircraft with early model challenges like on the Spit -Fabric covered control surfaces, the fixed pitch prop and 27 pumps to raise the landing gear!

No aircraft will be withouts its weaknesseshttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BennyMoore
07-13-2004, 10:44 PM
Of course, for none of the aircraft in Battle of Britain are Russian!