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View Full Version : The future of games; no disc/no box........



KarayaEine
09-17-2004, 09:23 AM
From the Chicago Tribune:

The MP3 generation has learned to live without CD packaging; just give 'em the music. Video gamemakers are preparing to dispense with boxes too. Direct2Drive.com recently powered up its video game download site, offering 26 titles from the likes of Ubisoft, Atari, Funcom and Sony. We're talking PC games such as "Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time," "Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow" and "Civilization III," with "Driver" and "Atari: 80 Classic Games" on the way. Games cost $10 to $30 each.

Direct2Drive is backed by IGN Entertainment, the font of game information behind Gamespy.com. It has buddied up with Atari -- which last spring began selling some of its own games via download -- and Ubisoft -- which this summer published "The Political Machine," part of the TotalGaming.net universe. At TotalGaming.net, you pay a yearly subscription to download every game made by a stable of developers during that year. In other words, plunk down $89 now and you'll get all five current games (that's less than $18 a game), plus any other games developed this year. You get not only final releases but also beta versions.

Gamemakers want to avoid the hassles and costs of designing a box for the game, then making the box, stuffing it with the game, shipping it to a distribution center and storing it in inventory.

Expect more news on this front in the next week or so, as Infinium Labs prepares to spill the beans on its Phantom Gaming Service. You may recall that the Phantom is a sleek box that streams thousands of PC games via your broadband connection to your TV -- again, no boxes.


Interesting......

Looks like we may have to d/l PF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Johann

Horrido!
"We need more ammo!"
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid123/pf6134ba44807ec5fa171e4f94f32e299/f81fa8b5.jpg

KarayaEine
09-17-2004, 09:23 AM
From the Chicago Tribune:

The MP3 generation has learned to live without CD packaging; just give 'em the music. Video gamemakers are preparing to dispense with boxes too. Direct2Drive.com recently powered up its video game download site, offering 26 titles from the likes of Ubisoft, Atari, Funcom and Sony. We're talking PC games such as "Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time," "Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow" and "Civilization III," with "Driver" and "Atari: 80 Classic Games" on the way. Games cost $10 to $30 each.

Direct2Drive is backed by IGN Entertainment, the font of game information behind Gamespy.com. It has buddied up with Atari -- which last spring began selling some of its own games via download -- and Ubisoft -- which this summer published "The Political Machine," part of the TotalGaming.net universe. At TotalGaming.net, you pay a yearly subscription to download every game made by a stable of developers during that year. In other words, plunk down $89 now and you'll get all five current games (that's less than $18 a game), plus any other games developed this year. You get not only final releases but also beta versions.

Gamemakers want to avoid the hassles and costs of designing a box for the game, then making the box, stuffing it with the game, shipping it to a distribution center and storing it in inventory.

Expect more news on this front in the next week or so, as Infinium Labs prepares to spill the beans on its Phantom Gaming Service. You may recall that the Phantom is a sleek box that streams thousands of PC games via your broadband connection to your TV -- again, no boxes.


Interesting......

Looks like we may have to d/l PF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Johann

Horrido!
"We need more ammo!"
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid123/pf6134ba44807ec5fa171e4f94f32e299/f81fa8b5.jpg

BSS_Goat
09-17-2004, 09:29 AM
I dont know, the picture on the box sells alot of games.

http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~wingman/thumbs/p40-04jerry-thumb.jpg

http://www.blacksheep214.com/

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that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it
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TC_Stele
09-17-2004, 09:31 AM
Don't know about you but I'd prefer the boxes and some detailed manuals, at least for sims like IL2. There are a lot of high end software programs out there like photoshop, etc that have a thick/detailed manual. It would be neat to buy a game along with maps, a detailed manual (ie-one could have been used to explain all those loadouts in il2). With games turning to downloading and subscription the game loses a sense of having something tangible to work with along the game.

I know that the game would be a bit more with maps and a big manual but I personally would be glad to fork it over. I remember an old Super Nintendo game made by Koei called "Pacific Theater of Operations II" and the game came with a thick colored manual along with a huge map of the pacific that could be used along with the game. Unfortunate the extra effort is decided not to be worth it anymore http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://www.imgmag.net/images/izlude/sig.gif

carguy_
09-17-2004, 09:37 AM
I wouldn`t want to pay a subscription for games I don`t want to have.

The bottleneck is developers` greed - up to 80% of the game price.When I buy games today the price difference between a DVD box and real big nice box is maybe 3$.

The only really efficent way to overwhelm piracy is to ensure more ppl will buy games legally and the price is the biggest factor here.

BTW when I pay for a game I want it wrapped in a box with a nice extended manual book.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

Self-proclaimed dedicated Willywhiner since July 2002

Gbucket
09-17-2004, 09:40 AM
Personally I believe than Phantom will flop but digital distribution will start to take off a lot more in the next few years. People love to actually get something in their hands - box/manual/cd - so I think it's unlikely it'll take over from high street shops but it could eat into their profits quite a bit.

Wseivelod
09-17-2004, 09:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KarayaEine:
From the Chicago Tribune:

The MP3 generation has learned to live without CD packaging; just give 'em the music. Video gamemakers are preparing to dispense with boxes too. Direct2Drive.com recently powered up its video game download site, offering 26 titles from the likes of Ubisoft, Atari, Funcom and Sony. We're talking PC games such as "Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time," "Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow" and "Civilization III," with "Driver" and "Atari: 80 Classic Games" on the way. Games cost $10 to $30 each.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


about the MP3s, I couldn't disagree more. Being from the alleged generation of people whom abused mp3s the most, I can honestly say that mp3s have been, and always will be vastly inferior to cds- even audio cassettes. Album art also sells the artist and their album. There is nothing like a vinyl or silver-backed cd album. And there is nothing like a nice glossy ceedee booklet. Not to meantion the GREAT drop (or should I say total lack) in sound quality above 16khz (on average).


About games, let us not forget that the rest of the world still has yet to get on the internet, much less on high speed connections where these downloads would be available. Also, what if the your album only came with the lyrics on the cd, accessable only by computer instead of in a colorful booklet? People want their physical manuals as well for their games.


In the essense, it works well for demos, just as mp3s work well for sampling albums, but they compare in no way.

Bearcat99
09-17-2004, 10:10 AM
Id prefer to have a box and a disc too.. and since basicaly all I do is sims.... FB in particular.. its a no brainer for me.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959)
IMMERSION BABY!!

Daiichidoku
09-17-2004, 10:26 AM
I couyldnt imagine that ppl would favor cds over Lps back in the day....why would they want them, when Lps had amazing cover art/inner sleeves, etc...I was SO wrong...I held out fo ryears, though, till I finally caved and got cds.....but I still have, and use, my Lps and turntable...the way a turntable was MEANT to be used, too, hehe..

when it comes to buying a game, I could care less about the box....it usually gets stuffed away and forgotten in a corner collecting dust...or thrown out...Id rather see minimal packaging, being a little more enviro-friendly with less consumption or an object that is useless...give me the cd, or whatever medium the game is on, and a really nice manual...but thats all...

Heck, let me but a nice big manual with a cd pocketed inside, instead

Too bad, a large part of the sales are to do with the packaging, so I guess I wont see these wastful boxes going any time soon

Maybe a better idea is to have a "demo" package at each dealer/store, so that one may look at what they want to entice you with, but you buy only a manual and cd, with virtually no packaging...better for the enviroment, and hey, maybe it would even be cheaper to produce product this way, nes't pas?...even at a few cents a package, over many thousands of them, savings would be signifigant for the producer, meaning more profits...and maybe part of that saving can be passed on to the consumer (yea right!), which, if the price is mor eattractive, they can possibly sell even more units and make up the difference

http://groups.msn.com/TaoofDaiichidoku/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1

BM357_TinMan
09-17-2004, 10:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TC_Stele:
Don't know about you but I'd prefer the boxes and some detailed manuals, at least for sims like IL2. ... It would be neat to buy a game along with maps, a detailed manual (ie-one could have been used to explain all those loadouts in il2). With games turning to downloading and subscription the game loses a sense of having something tangible to work with along the game.

I know that the game would be a bit more with maps and a big manual but I personally would be glad to fork it over. I remember an old Super Nintendo game made by Koei called "Pacific Theater of Operations II" and the game came with a thick colored manual along with a huge map of the pacific that could be used along with the game. Unfortunate the extra effort is decided not to be worth it anymore http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. There is so much to IL2 that you have to "discover". Seems a shame to me that there is so much versitility built into the game that you have to "stumble" across due to lack of any kind of good info.

You have to follow the forums and catch things that others have figured out. Kind of sucks.

I'd be happy with a .pdf with maps and detailed instructions and save UBI the cost of the publication of a full printed and bound manual.

BM357_TinMan
xo BM357 VFG
www.bm357.com (http://www.bm357.com)

Obi_Kwiet
09-17-2004, 11:07 AM
I want to be able to unistall the thing, put it on another PC, ect. Besides, what if I re-format? Bad idea. I want a physical copy of my game.

essemm
09-17-2004, 11:13 AM
Call me devil's advocate, but I think the idea is great. I like the idea of not having to go to the store to get what I want. Plus, the boxes end up either cluttering up my shelf, or in the trash anyways...so why bother?

Toss in the fact that the game is cheaper (via download), and this seems to be a win-win proposition (for me anyways...).

Manuals, maps etc? Well, I use the Internet for that stuff anyways...manuals end up stashed away in a drawer somewhere. Maps...I find that for any game that needs a map, users usually end up putting up FAR BETTER maps for download anyways.

I am a very busy guy...I barely get time for gaming. The less time (or effort) it takes me to get a game, the better.

I am going to go check out that service right now...

essemm
09-17-2004, 11:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
I want to be able to unistall the thing, put it on another PC, ect. Besides, what if I re-format? Bad idea. I want a physical copy of my game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Got a burner (cd or dvd)? If not...what planet are you on http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

DVD burners are now available for a cheap as $80 (CDN). Media can be had for as little as 45 cents a disc.

ednavar
09-17-2004, 12:52 PM
The company I'm working for started a web site with this kind of service (same titles actually) early in March and it is doing rather well.

Digital delivering has a good potential but it is highly dependant on the target you are addressing and the business model adopted.

Selling is good with either low budjet games or 0 Days high profile titles, and it seems more adapt if the game is perceived has having an easy learning curve (we do have il2 and il2fb available btw).

Subscription is often used by many customers to actually try a game for a few hours or days before going to the shop and getting the box.

The main issues with the usual customer are the paying method, the updating of the product (these is DRM software. if a patch is released you got to redownload a complete encoded game again..), the fear of not being able to play it again if you corrupt your installation or license and finally not having the glossy manual.

It is still a niche market but with the development of broad band connections there is much that can be done..

S!

"You see love is like a rollercoaster. You pay a lot of money to be tossed around and before you know it the ride is over and you are covered in vomit"
GTA Vice City - DJ Fernando Martinez

BM357_TinMan
09-17-2004, 01:03 PM
Glossy manuals are cool and all, and I'd rather have one, but I'd be satisfied with a .pdf that is consise.

The biggest prob with d/l that I can see is, reformatting or moving the game from one comp to another...are you SOL then?

Maybe another issue is the current format. That is to say, I don't want a subscription to a bunch of games I won't play. I play COD sometimes, but FB (or whatever WWII CFS is the best at the time) is my game of choice, I have no interest in or time to play others.

I do like the idea of not having to go to the store to buy it, and just think how quick we could get new expansion packs with out having to wait for the developer/distributor to make all the cd's and packaging and then ship them all over..... does have potential

BM357_TinMan
xo BM357 VFG
www.bm357.com (http://www.bm357.com)

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2004, 01:15 PM
To be fair to the developers...

I'd be "greedy" too, if my only distribution option was to sign a contract with a "distributor" who is only really interested in moving boxes in XBox quantities; who pressures me to release a game we both know isn't ready; who grabs a large share of the per-box gross, for doing nothing more than just being a middleman.

I think the dev teams deserve a lion's share of the money, but just like in music industry, they get a terribly bad deal, just because scum control the distribution channels. They create a game or a sim from NOTHING, and then get,what, 15% of the proceeds?? It's CRIMINAL.

Same with music. The artist creates a song out of nothing but air, vision and musical talent, and then they have to sign a contract that nets them nothing but DEBT, unless they are lucky enough to sell multimillions with their first album. Only those artists who suffer through 4, 5 6 albums that are hugely successful (and which they get pennies per unit on) ever get enough control and power to be able to get something amounting to simply a "fair" deal.

=====================================
I'd like nothing better than to see the devs be able to sell direct to the users; the user can opt to "send away" for a printed, glossy manual if they wish; you could put the CD art online, too, for people who want a more "polished" disk.

Who needs the f***ing box???? It's landfill,for the most part, oversized (to fit in the store's plan for homogenous box sizes), filled with air and stiff cardboard, and does absolutely nothing but take up shelf space. Some look nice, sure, but that's just merchandising. Not much substance there. (And, I have myself designed game boxes, so I know of what I speak).

Charlie901
09-17-2004, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
I wouldn`t want to pay a subscription for games I don`t want to have.

The bottleneck is developers` greed - up to 80% of the game price.When I buy games today the price difference between a DVD box and real big nice box is maybe 3$.

The only really efficent way to overwhelm piracy is to ensure more ppl will buy games legally and the price is the biggest factor here.

BTW when I pay for a game I want it wrapped in a box with a nice extended manual book.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



IIRC the smaller DVD boxes were in response to the retail stores that sell video games wanting smaller boxes, which take up less display shelf space. If it's a matter of these stores droping pc games altogether I would rather settle for the smaller boxes.

Although a good flight sim game should be shipped in a larger box w/ a big printed manual and sell for $59.00. If DOOM 3 can sell for this price w/o a large maunal than a sim with a large manual sould definately run for this price.

Chuck_Older
09-17-2004, 02:58 PM
Hmmm, MP3 exists, and people seem to like it



I don't see stores that sell CDs going out of business in my area, though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

I am a lover of music. I want the CD case, the jacket, and the liner notes inside. I want more than the sounds. I am interested in the music that inspired the music, so I look at writing credits. I might want to know when the CD was recorded. I may want to know exactly how long is the song is that's coming up next...or in 12 songs.

Completely aside from that, I know guys who did the real-deal musician gig in a Punk band for many years, and I know how tough they had it, what they sacrificed (including rent and food money) to record their songs to chase their dreams, and what was put up with to do their thing. What they did wasn't about MP3, I can tell you that


I feel alive I feel alive I feel alive, I'm Me again!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/clarkchampion.jpg
Flower of Scotland, when will we see your like again?

LStarosta
09-17-2004, 03:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
Same with music. The artist creates a song out of nothing but air, vision and musical talent, and then they have to sign a contract that nets them nothing but DEBT, unless they are lucky enough to sell multimillions with their first album. Only those artists who suffer through 4, 5 6 albums that are hugely successful (and which they get pennies per unit on) ever get enough control and power to be able to get something amounting to simply a "fair" deal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Poor Britney... Oh.. the vision... The air.. The musical talent... Oh the HUMANITY!

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HoosBB
09-17-2004, 05:16 PM
I think it's a great idea. There are tons of old games that aren't produced anymore and are extremely expensive because of their rarity, one example being Longbow 2. Most older games have to be purchased used so it's not like you'd get a box or manual anyway. Besides, when's the last time you referred to your manual while playing a first person shooter or a real time strategy game? Plus, both old and new games would be much cheaper because no documentation or packaging costs would be included. The only bad part of the deal is that you have to pay a subscription fee.

Red_Russian13
09-17-2004, 06:22 PM
Interesting conversation here.

I remember not too long ago, they got rid of those huge computer game boxes. I was angry...but now I don't understand why they didn't use the smaller ones before...

Honestly, I throw out my boxes (unless they've got great art) and keep the CD case.

Concerning music, well it's a long debate. Artists do get the shaft sometimes (or a lot). I've got well over 350 CDs in my collection, so I obviously don't have a problem giving the artist my money. But it'd be nice if they'd lower the price of the CD and make more of it go to the artist and less go to the record companies. It's really a complex situation. Record companies shell out millions to promote an album, and then want that back and more (I feel that those record companies owe me something for ripping me off all those years...there was a lawsuit a while back that got some people money if they'd bought CDs in the past...or something like that.)

I'm a part time musician. I'm not in it for fame or money (I have no delusions of my abilities), so I haven't a problem giving my music out for free. To me, it's about the music. I'd also like to see more indie artists go to MP3 formats and distribute music that way, thus eliminating getting shafted by the record companies. And I'm with Chuck, although I've only purchased about 3 CDs in the last two years. I like the CD case with insert...I used to love reading all the info and writing credits.

Anyway, I rambled a bit there. Sorry. I would D/L games. Not a problem. But they'd have to offer the manual in PDF or something. And they'd have to lower the price of games. It stands to reason that they're shaving off distribution, packaging, etc from the merchandise. So I would expect to see that reflected.

Red Russian

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/Red_Russian13/RedRussian.jpg

oddglob
09-17-2004, 06:55 PM
I *may* be happy to download games as well, provided -as other posters have pointed out - a good proportion of the savings were also passed on to the consumer.

However, I would not want game downloading to become an excuse for developers and publishers to deny the re-installation of games due to hard drive re-formatting, hardware upgrades or OS re-installations.

If such a downloading regime were to be put into place, I would like to be thouroughly pre-informed of the situation with regard to reinstalls and backups, as there are more legitimate reasons to have to reinstall a game than there are illegitimate reasons.

If the distribution model was going to function in a similar way to those adopted by certain third party developers of downloadable add-ons for Microsoft Flight Simulator, then such companies will never get a cent from me.

GT182
09-17-2004, 07:05 PM
I know of a few that got B17 Flying Fortress by download and had all kinds of problems with it. Cost them enough for something they couldn't even run. So no thanks for buying pc games by download.

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Red_Russian13
09-17-2004, 07:30 PM
I agree that there needs to be a way for you to re-d/l if needed. I guess some sort of receipt, as long as it's not electronic. Maybe have to print it out or something. I think I did that with a recent game called "Alien Shooter".

Red Russian

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/Red_Russian13/RedRussian.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2004, 10:06 PM
What's stopping you from immediately burning a downloaded, virgin install program to a CD?

That's a dead issue, pretty much, innit?

HarryVoyager
09-17-2004, 10:38 PM
Well, I've bought download games before. The primary problem with them is that they invariably require some key other than the CD itself.

Dark Orbit is a fun little space shooter type game, I picked up for around $15 USD a few years back, and played through. A few reformats later, I decided to pick it back up again, and play it, but it needed an activation key. Fortunatly the company was still in business, so I was able to get it straightened out, but many other companies have folded over the years.

Suppose my old copy of Fallout was based on a digital key. Who would I go to then to get a replacement key for? Interplay is gone. Freespace? The rights to that game are broken up across three separate companies now, and I believe at least one of them has gone under.

Basically, I do not want to become reliant on a third party in order to run software I have purchased, because at some point in the future, that third party may be gone. I have simply seen to many game companies and consortiums go under to have any expectation that any consortium I buy from now will be in existance ten-fifteen years from now.

Harry Voyager

FI.Snaphoo
09-17-2004, 10:59 PM
As long as the rights of the purchaser are covered, i.e. split the download up into CD sized chunks so that I can burn it off to CD for my use later (when reformatting, setting up a dedicated server, etc.). And as long as the activation process isn't based on the company's existance, then I have no problem downloading a game from the Intarweb.

I agree that the Software Developers should be paid for what they do. And we, the community, shouldn't have to pay outrageous markup (on average) for games, when we're mostly paying for packaging and marketing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

karost
09-17-2004, 11:21 PM
Digital delivering has a good potential provide new way for our enjoyment
That is a direct distribute system that make a price low and faster http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

All details in PDF file plus center service in website that is good for me.

I thing you may have a same suffer like me when you saw a beautiful box of game and buy that game bring to your home and have a big hope to play that game but after you install playing just 30min. then angry and throw that cd and box out of the window http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif because that game is not good same as beautiful box that you saw.

Now, I like to see information about a recommend game list in website and download demo, if it good and the price is ok then I buy it.

Digital delivering system is a new choice for friends from many country,no need to wait for shipment for a long way to the store. It's faster.



Sorry of my bad English.
S!

[This message was edited by karost on Fri September 17 2004 at 10:29 PM.]

oddglob
09-18-2004, 02:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Basically, I do not want to become reliant on a third party in order to run software I have purchased, because at some point in the future, that third party may be gone. I have simply seen to many game companies and consortiums go under to have any expectation that any consortium I buy from now will be in existance ten-fifteen years from now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was my basic concern when I expressed my sentiments above. I even hesitated in upgrading to Windows XP when I realised the requirement for activation was effectively time-unlimited (my copy of Office 2000 did not require re-activation once the computer date was equal to or later than April 15th, 2003).

That said, operating systems and business products are perhaps different to games. Many of us collect and keep our games and often like get them out to relive the nostalgia every now and then. I've kept every game I ever bought that gave me pleasure. So when it comes to digital keys, either the company needs to be around or otherwise they need to release a "master" key to all users in the event the company ceases trading and does not on-sell it's intellectual property rights. That is, unless the licence agreements stipulate that the usage of the software is time-limited to begin with (ie game rentals, etc).

But that isn't the only thing. There have been more than enough complaints lodged against existing companies with regard to their policies that pertain to the re-installation of downloable, key-activated software. Typically these companies will defend themselves by labeling the complainants as software thiefs or otherwise ask to know why the purchaser has had to reload their operating system so many times. Any company asking me this question will *never, ever* get my business under any circumstances whatsoever.

The thing is, when one user complains about a company, I don't think much of it. When two users make the same complaint about a company, I am interested. When three or more users make the same complaint about a company, I have to seriously consider that those complaints may have some sort of basis in fact, even if the bona fides of the complainants are difficult to establish. It is certainly enough to make me quite circumspect about those companies.

Certainly I know of one or two companies who have received *multiple* complaints with regard to users being denied keys to reinstall the company's products. Who knows what the real story is, but such complaints undeniably leave a strong impression.

In any event, I should point out that I would always opt for the packaged, boxed game from the local store in preference to a download unless I had no other choice. I don't really consider the two games I buy each year a sufficient budgetary issue to change my current purchasing habits in the pursuit of convenience and discounts.

Zjoek
09-18-2004, 05:07 AM
What? No nice, thick manuals?! What the hell am I supposed to read in the toilet?! THE TRAVESTY!

RevvinUK
09-18-2004, 07:02 AM
Perhaps I'm a little old fashioned in liking to have a box in my hands with a printed manual, particularly for sims as I never read the manual for an FPS game anyway. Perhaps if there was an option to buy a printed manual which when combined with the price of the electronic download offered a small saving over buying the game retail.

I have got a little used to downloading full games over the last few years with the subscription based sims I've played such as Warbirds, Aces High, WWII Online, Fighter Ace and Targetware. Valve are doing the same kind of thing through their 'Steam' service. The only thing that bothers me with all this is downloading the bloatware client software such as Steam. If I were to start purchasing games online then I'd want the equivalent of my local game store where I could just give me credit card details and download the game without the need for a piece of specialist software like the Steam system (which in my experience the support has been poor)

Where I think it might help developers is if you could download games but select an option to download say a two, three or more license copy as my son and I play games such as Joint Operations and UT2004 together (not got him into sims yet) with a small discount for each additional license purchased it might just deter some of the casual piracy around.

Revvin

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Saromon
09-18-2004, 07:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wseivelod:


About games, let us not forget that the rest of the world still has yet to get on the internet, much less on high speed connections where these downloads would be available. Also, what if the your album only came with the lyrics on the cd, accessable only by computer instead of in a colorful booklet? People want their physical manuals as well for their games.


In the essense, it works well for demos, just as mp3s work well for sampling albums, but they compare in no way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will have to respectfully disagree with that. High Tech Creations "Aces High" has been a very sucessfull online MMOG.

The game is free and always has been. Its not available in stores or in any kind of boxed version. Simply download from the website, install, subscribe and have fun. All the info needed (i.e. manual etc) is available from the HTC website also. Aces High is arguably the most sucessfull online flight sim ever. Although Im sure the faithfull on the IL2 page will disagree http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aces High has players from all over the world online. So the whole thing about people not being able to download/play due to thier internet connection is nonsense.

Just my 2cents.

-HH- Beebop
09-18-2004, 08:28 AM
It would'nt surprise me to see games move toward d/l only. With the spread of high speed connections in the urban areas, where the masses live, distributors would probably see enough revenue to say "this is the way to go".
I personally think that since specialist 'brick and mortar' outlets are doing poorly these days it's the wave of the future.
The good thing about being able to d/l stuff is that those who have mobility issues can still get product. The bad things have been pointed out in previous posts.

I come from a time when music was released on a 12" slab of virgin vinyl and had great artwork worthy of hanging on the wall, foldouts, inserts...you really got some value for $3.98/mono, $4.98/stereo. Johnny Winter released a 3-sided record! One side was blank! Weird but cool. Monty Python released a record with two grooves on the same side. Imagine my surprise when I went to replay the record and a whole other bit came out of the speakers. (Back then I first thought it was the drugs. lol.) You don't get that kind of wierdness anymore w/CD's.
I don't miss the big boxes but I do miss the manuals. Falcon 4.0 had the very best manual ever. 8 1/2 X 11, spiral bound, you could lay it out on the desk infront of you while you were flying. Now it's a .pdf manual that's too small and too light on info. Heck, the paper booklet that shipped with IL-2 was better IMO than the .pdf than ships w/FB. Thank god this community has served up lots of great, user friendly info on the game.

I'll miss the CD/box/printed material. I feel sorry for those that will still be on dial-up and have to suffer with a 24 hour d/l that gets broken 15 times before they get it all, un-corrupted. (That's how long it took me to sucessfully d/l the IL-2 demo back when). I'm willing to bet that the only way to get games from a store in the future will be from Wal-Mart where the clerk can't even work the computer at the checkout.

As Bob Dylan said...."for the times they are a'changin'...."

My 2 kopecks worth.

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ednavar
09-18-2004, 08:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
What's stopping you from immediately burning a downloaded, virgin install program to a CD?

That's a dead issue, pretty much, innit?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, it is not. To reduce piracy the file you are downloading have a Digital License applied. You can burn it to a CD but every time you reinstall it you got to renew your license. There is a limited number of license renewals available (usually 3) before having to buy the game again or having to protest to some Customer Care people.

S!

"You see love is like a rollercoaster. You pay a lot of money to be tossed around and before you know it the ride is over and you are covered in vomit"
GTA Vice City - DJ Fernando Martinez

RevvinUK
09-18-2004, 12:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EdNavar:
Well, it is not. To reduce piracy the file you are downloading have a Digital License applied. You can burn it to a CD but every time you reinstall it you got to renew your license. There is a limited number of license renewals available (usually 3) before having to buy the game again or having to protest to some Customer Care people.

S!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is something I do have issue with. Live For Speed has such a system. I have re-installed my OS once and somehow managed to corrupt one install of LFS so I have one last install left. Now I know one of those installs was used up because of my own mistake but if I bought it on CD I could install as many times as I liked. Some games like IL-2, Falcon4.0, Grand Prix Legends etc have really stood the test of time and are still on my HDD numerous installs since they were first bought but with the "three strikes and your our" rule applied there I would probably not be able to play any of them.

Revvin

The CH Hangar - Profiles, scripting ideas and discussion for CH users (http://www.ch-hangar.com)

adlabs6
09-18-2004, 01:43 PM
So... If IL2/FB had been under this program for since the start, I'd have paid in $89 X 3 years = $267 in order to keep my subscriptions going long enough to download IL2, FB, AEP, and PF? If they were $39 each they'd only cost $157 at the store in a box with a printed manual. What's the gain?

Also, lets not forget the next big step with digital rights managment... paid online play. Then when your subscription is let go, not only no more games... but no more playing online with the ones you already bought and paid for.

Somehow I feel that this would be the world we'd face if the corporate world had it's way.

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