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STDlyMcStudpants
05-26-2014, 03:30 AM
I believe I had an epiphany.. feel free to write it off completely if this makes no sense.. haha
Why do we think AC's Combat is too easy?
WELL.. I was writing a review for a game that HEAVILY borrows from both the Batman Arkham series and the Assassin's Creed series and while I was comparing the combat to Assassin's Creed it hit me!
VARIETY is why combat is too easy BUT! Not a lack of variety... TOO much variety...
How could too much variety be a bad thing?
Well if you look at any game hardly anything changes but skins, yet people don't ever yell out how easy it is (for the most part any way)
BUT with the series emphasizing on combat variety it makes enemies predictable...
This game that I was reviewing had shield wielding enemies that couldn't take damage until you broke it's shield.. the only way to break it's shield was to counter attack so i found myself waiting for an attack just to counter.. completely taking me out of the experience..
Something Assassin's Creed has been doing since ACR? Sooner?
Now I'm not saying that AC should cut on variety BUT
I am saying they should cut predictability....
Make fighting styles random...

LoyalACFan
05-26-2014, 03:46 AM
Too much variety can't be the problem, because we don't HAVE much variety. I think what you're really driving at here is that archetypes are the problem. If I know that Break Defense + Attack is the way to defeat every fat guy in a trenchoat and tricorn hat, then there's no variety at all. Every enemy has a predetermined weakness based on their clothing, which is stupid. Combat needs to be more dynamic than that (maybe take a page from Arkham's book where picking up different weapons essentially makes enemies swap "archetypes" on the fly) and get rid of the notion that a fight should be populated by pathetically weak enemies and annoying "heavy" ones who have a magic strategy that kills them every time.


This game that I was reviewing had shield wielding enemies that couldn't take damage until you broke it's shield.. the only way to break it's shield was to counter attack so i found myself waiting for an attack just to counter.. completely taking me out of the experience..
Something Assassin's Creed has been doing since ACR? Sooner?

AC1 and AC2 were HORRIBLE about this. Sitting in one spot and counter-killing everyone with the hidden blade was the best way to win any fight. The new system is far, far, superior, although AC3 did it a lot better than 4.

Fatal-Feit
05-26-2014, 05:58 AM
Assassin's Creed simply needs to rebalance double kills and the amount of tools you're armed with.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-26-2014, 06:09 AM
Too much variety can't be the problem, because we don't HAVE much variety. I think what you're really driving at here is that archetypes are the problem. If I know that Break Defense + Attack is the way to defeat every fat guy in a trenchoat and tricorn hat, then there's no variety at all. Every enemy has a predetermined weakness based on their clothing, which is stupid. Combat needs to be more dynamic than that (maybe take a page from Arkham's book where picking up different weapons essentially makes enemies swap "archetypes" on the fly) and get rid of the notion that a fight should be populated by pathetically weak enemies and annoying "heavy" ones who have a magic strategy that kills them every time.

AC1 and AC2 were HORRIBLE about this. Sitting in one spot and counter-killing everyone with the hidden blade was the best way to win any fight. The new system is far, far, superior, although AC3 did it a lot better than 4.

Yes archetypes was the word i was looking for.. what i kind of mean by variety is they want to throw it all in a box like you said based on clothing this guy fights this way, this guy will always need a counter.. i also appreciate how in arkham that environment/weapon avilability will change enemies fighting style
I wounder how this coul dbe done in assassins creed...
maybe keep the boxed styles BUT not assign it.. randomize it.. this would also make you more cautious - not wanting to pick fights because you dont know what their fighting style will be...
I ued to crap my pants when a knights templar would step in in AC1.. now i do it when i run into a fight with a captain in AC 3 but not for the same reasons...
In AC1 I could atleast fight a templar.... In AC3 the captains were untouchable annoying guys that you have to mash buttons to kill because you forget the counter x thing haha

I guess really, I don't like when an enemy can only be taken down in a predetermined way...
Really breaks immersion.

Fatal-Feit
05-26-2014, 06:50 AM
I ued to crap my pants when a knights templar would step in in AC1.. now i do it when i run into a fight with a captain in AC 3 but not for the same reasons...
In AC1 I could atleast fight a templar.... In AC3 the captains were untouchable annoying guys that you have to mash buttons to kill because you forget the counter x thing haha

I guess really, I don't like when an enemy can only be taken down in a predetermined way...
Really breaks immersion.

There's many ways of taking them down in combat.

1. Gun, bow, or ropedart -> Y
2. Tool counter -> B + Y
3. Disarm and mash -> B + A + X
4. Backstab -> Analog around + X
5. Disarm + Double Kill(my favorite, although requires practice) -> B + A + X
6. Attack them when they're in a feud state(when they look scared after you perform a kill)
7. Call in an Assassin -> LB
8. Smokebomb
9. Wait for double counter(high chance when going up against 2-3)

RinoTheBouncer
05-26-2014, 11:56 AM
I agree with the “too much variety” in general. I feel like AC games give us way too many weapons and techniques that we rarely use and are just there for the sake of optional objectives or if someone wants to use them. For example ACIII gave us too many techniques to hunt animals but I only used a Tomahawk for that or the bow and arrow. I think if they focus more on how the killing happens than in how many weapons can we do the same thing, it would be much better.

We got tens of pistols and swords in ACIV but we could’ve substituted that with a completely different type of weapon or perhaps we can have a game in prehistoric times where we only use our skills and some dagger to kill a target. That would be more challenging and more fun because we’ll make do with skills rather than fancy weapons that do the same thing as one another even with the same animations and deaths ..etc.

SixKeys
05-26-2014, 02:06 PM
I hate games where the combat system relies on a ridiculous amount of button combos. I'm just not good at memorizing too many different moves for several different scenarios. Arkham Asylum was tolerable about this, whereas Arkham City went way over-the-top. At some point I simply stopped even trying to memorize all the combos and just button-mashed my way through most situations. This is the same reason I dislike AC3's combat (although not as much). I don't know how it is with a controller, but with KB+M it's really annoying trying to remember when to lightly tap a key vs. holding it, and trying to press several other keys at the same time. I like combat that is challenging but smooth. Where it's not about remembering key combos for enemies but different maneuvers for various archetypes. As someone mentioned, Batman has a good system where even rookie enemies can pick up weapons dropped by their comrades, thus leveling them up on the fly. Even if you get overwhelmed by the number of enemies, you have ways to buy yourself time with a few "cheap" moves (like cape stun, which works on all normal enemies).

Sushiglutton
05-26-2014, 04:00 PM
I think the combat in AC is too simplistic, but the amount of moves is okey-ish (needs at least one more defensive move). If we ignore enemies we have that:

Complexity = (number of moves)^(layers of depth)

My problem (well, one of them) with the combat in AC is that it lacks depth. There are no interesting ways to sting together/combine moves, which makes the system very flat and leave no room for creativity.

oliacr
05-26-2014, 04:42 PM
It's great, not too easy, not too hard. I don't have any problems. I don't want it to be extremely hard or easy because that makes no sense.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-26-2014, 05:27 PM
It's great, not too easy, not too hard. I don't have any problems. I don't want it to be extremely hard or easy because that makes no sense.

I'm not asking for it to be hard... just fighting styles to be randomized/ fighting patterns to be randomized.
I want enemies to stop NEEDING to be stunned or countered before I can hurt them is what I'm saying
Sure to make it easier to take one out they may need a counter or a stun, but if i want to duel with them, I can....
I point to hack and slash games... god of war for example... many enemy types but can ALL be taken out the same way...its just that some of the larger types have an optional quick time event that takes them out easier and gives you health regen/magic regen if you choose to do the QTE instead of just killing it with combat...
From memory, I don't recall an enemy ever needing to be countered to attack it (such as waiting for it to attack you and rolling out of the way to stun it)
FORCING a player to wait for a weakness breaks immersion.. it should be a conscious or subconscious CHOICE we make during a heated battle...
We should think 'Oh I could do this' instead of 'What was it I had to do again?'
Its kind of like what uncharted 3 did.. they bit themselves in the butt with that Big guy....
It would ruin all flow and immersion everytime one stepped in
And I know that the point of these enemies is to break flow and keep you on your toes...
But they do more frustrating you than they do challenging you.

king-hailz
05-27-2014, 04:40 PM
jncdjn

STDlyMcStudpants
05-27-2014, 06:27 PM
So my idea for the combat system in assassins creed is to use the idea that fighting games like tekken have, which assign a different limb to a different button. Tekken uses SQUARE and TRIANGLE to control the right and left punches and then uses X and CIRCLE to control the right and left kicks. So in assassins creed i think they should use this to make it more fun and rewarding then it is now.

This is how it should work:

The enemy attack you, you press CIRCLE to counter.

You then follow up with a 3 hit combo. Using 3 different buttons on the controller, SQUARE to control the characters left punch, TRIANGLE to control the characters right punch, X to Control the characters kick and circle to disarm the character.

The 3 hit combo hits the opponent and takes him out in the 3rd hit. E.g. I press circle to counter and then follow up with SQUARE TRIANGLE SQUARE. The final SQUARE kills your enemy. Each combination of the buttons has a different combo attack to kill the opponent.

This will also work with the dual weapons. If you have a sword in the right hand and have the hidden blade in the left you could do this:

CIRCLE to counter, X SQUARE TRIANGLE, this will let the character kick the enemy the stab him in the stomach with the hidden blade and slash his neck with sword in a combo... However at certain times the enemy will block the last attack and then try to attack you which you will have to quickly press circle to counter again ( the counter this time will be much harder making it more likely for you to get hit by the enemy) and when you counter for a second time successfully you can follow up with just one button to kill your enemy.

When you are in the middle of a combo the enemies around you can easily attack you so you have to be prepared to counter them an example of how this could work is:

You press CIRCLE to counter, then SQUARE SQUARE TRIANGLE, but while you are doing this combo another enemy is about to attack you so you either get hit and lose a lot of life or you are prepared and quickly press CIRCLE to counter and you have to follow this with another CIRCLE to throw the enemy away or you get attacked and lose more life. However if you are successful in this after the throw you can press SQUARE TRIANGLE or X to kill the opponent you were attacking first in one hit.

To make it more rewarding you will start with only a couple of combos to kill your enemies and you will unlock more if you are successful with 20 combo kills to unlock more combos to do and then more at 50 kills.

But this won't be a waiting game for you to just wait for the enemies to attack, you can also attack anyway like you can now but it will not kill them easily... It will take ages for you to kill an opponent this way but if you do attack this way the enemy will block a lot of your attacks and after a while they will counter and you will have to press certain buttons to deflect their combos. E.g.

You attack and then the enemy counters and is about to do a 3 hit combo on you which will make you lose 70% of your life if they succeed at the 3 hit combo. They counter and then are about to do a combo which you will have to press SQUARE TRIANGLE and X to deflect. At first it will tell which to press for each attack to deflect it but then you will have to learn...

You attack and it is countered and then the enemy is about to punch which you have to press SQUARE at the right time to deflect, then the enemy is about to kick you and you have to press X to deflect and then the enemy strikes you with his sword which is where you have to press TRIANGLE to deflect and after this you lose 30% of your life by deflecting to make it harder and then the enemy is left unarmed and easy to kill.

This combat system will also allow the boss fights to be quite cool e.g. If their is a Templar boss who wields an axe and a dagger you will have to do more to kill the enemy...

The Templar attacks you and you counter and then press SQUARE TRIANGLE X, the enemy will always deflect the last hit and then attack you and you will have to counter again with CIRCLE and hit him again but this won't kill him... just injure him... If you attack him and the enemy counters you will have to go through a step of things to deflect the attacks... The boss will be different to normal enemies and can hit you with a 5 hit combo which will kill you if they succeed. But you won't just have to press SQUARE TRIANGLE AND X to deflect... The boss can attack with his sword and you will have to keep pressing TRIANGLE to stop him or he will get you.

So this is my idea based off the combat system they have already but by making it more fun and rewarding... and with the next gen hardware they should be able to add a lot of combos for each set of weapons making it fun to watch the enemy die with cool animations but also making it fun to play and hard with certain things you have to master to not get hit.... tell me what you think of this..... BTW it would be really annoying if anyone actually took my idea and made it in their game... as this is my own idea that took some thinking... but thanks anyway if you read this. :p
While I wouldn't like to see AC turn into a fighter... I could get behind a limb targeting system for certain enemy types such is generals.. id like to fake them out with my sword and shatter their knees with my tomahawk hahahah

GunnerGalactico
05-27-2014, 06:51 PM
So my idea for the combat system in assassins creed is to use the idea that fighting games like tekken have, which assign a different limb to a different button. Tekken uses SQUARE and TRIANGLE to control the right and left punches and then uses X and CIRCLE to control the right and left kicks. So in assassins creed i think they should use this to make it more fun and rewarding then it is now.

This is how it should work:

The enemy attack you, you press CIRCLE to counter.

You then follow up with a 3 hit combo. Using 3 different buttons on the controller, SQUARE to control the characters left punch, TRIANGLE to control the characters right punch, X to Control the characters kick and circle to disarm the character.

The 3 hit combo hits the opponent and takes him out in the 3rd hit. E.g. I press circle to counter and then follow up with SQUARE TRIANGLE SQUARE. The final SQUARE kills your enemy. Each combination of the buttons has a different combo attack to kill the opponent.

This will also work with the dual weapons. If you have a sword in the right hand and have the hidden blade in the left you could do this:

CIRCLE to counter, X SQUARE TRIANGLE, this will let the character kick the enemy the stab him in the stomach with the hidden blade and slash his neck with sword in a combo... However at certain times the enemy will block the last attack and then try to attack you which you will have to quickly press circle to counter again ( the counter this time will be much harder making it more likely for you to get hit by the enemy) and when you counter for a second time successfully you can follow up with just one button to kill your enemy.

When you are in the middle of a combo the enemies around you can easily attack you so you have to be prepared to counter them an example of how this could work is:

You press CIRCLE to counter, then SQUARE SQUARE TRIANGLE, but while you are doing this combo another enemy is about to attack you so you either get hit and lose a lot of life or you are prepared and quickly press CIRCLE to counter and you have to follow this with another CIRCLE to throw the enemy away or you get attacked and lose more life. However if you are successful in this after the throw you can press SQUARE TRIANGLE or X to kill the opponent you were attacking first in one hit.

To make it more rewarding you will start with only a couple of combos to kill your enemies and you will unlock more if you are successful with 20 combo kills to unlock more combos to do and then more at 50 kills.

But this won't be a waiting game for you to just wait for the enemies to attack, you can also attack anyway like you can now but it will not kill them easily... It will take ages for you to kill an opponent this way but if you do attack this way the enemy will block a lot of your attacks and after a while they will counter and you will have to press certain buttons to deflect their combos. E.g.

You attack and then the enemy counters and is about to do a 3 hit combo on you which will make you lose 70% of your life if they succeed at the 3 hit combo. They counter and then are about to do a combo which you will have to press SQUARE TRIANGLE and X to deflect. At first it will tell which to press for each attack to deflect it but then you will have to learn...

You attack and it is countered and then the enemy is about to punch which you have to press SQUARE at the right time to deflect, then the enemy is about to kick you and you have to press X to deflect and then the enemy strikes you with his sword which is where you have to press TRIANGLE to deflect and after this you lose 30% of your life by deflecting to make it harder and then the enemy is left unarmed and easy to kill.

This combat system will also allow the boss fights to be quite cool e.g. If their is a Templar boss who wields an axe and a dagger you will have to do more to kill the enemy...

The Templar attacks you and you counter and then press SQUARE TRIANGLE X, the enemy will always deflect the last hit and then attack you and you will have to counter again with CIRCLE and hit him again but this won't kill him... just injure him... If you attack him and the enemy counters you will have to go through a step of things to deflect the attacks... The boss will be different to normal enemies and can hit you with a 5 hit combo which will kill you if they succeed. But you won't just have to press SQUARE TRIANGLE AND X to deflect... The boss can attack with his sword and you will have to keep pressing TRIANGLE to stop him or he will get you.

So this is my idea based off the combat system they have already but by making it more fun and rewarding... and with the next gen hardware they should be able to add a lot of combos for each set of weapons making it fun to watch the enemy die with cool animations but also making it fun to play and hard with certain things you have to master to not get hit.... tell me what you think of this..... BTW it would be really annoying if anyone actually took my idea and made it in their game... as this is my own idea that took some thinking... but thanks anyway if you read this. :p

Nah, I like the combat system in AC... especially in AC3. It only needs a few minor adjustments.

JustPlainQuirky
05-31-2014, 06:00 AM
And not just that alone. The gameplay is getting rather same-y I noticed when playing the older games.

AC4's was refreshing but the ships aren't going to be in the next ones. The on-land combat needs something. I don't know. Anything to make it feel fresh again.And I know I'm not the only one who thinks that. I can literally survive anything as long as I hit the counter button.

Can you think of ways to freshen up the system? (aside from adding new ways to kill. Enemies are already as weak as they get)

The stealth is also very....not stealth. It's essentially 'walk slower and remain undetected' and that's it. I know it's not really a stealth-esque game but Ubisoft advertise stealth as an option in gameplay and well, it feels somewhat simplistic. AC: Liberation did well with adding a Persona mechanic. But it was very underdeveloped. I want a new combat system entirely. A looser one. And Better AI. Not just in their detection skills but their combat as well. And added options/mechanics for stealth.

More exotic missions would be nice too. They add a nice change of pace. but not the boring ones like shouting at men to fire guns in a warzone. I liked the ship sailing and air glider flying and carriage riding as prime examples.


Basically, Ubisoft needs to take more risks and add something really different and big to the gameplay mechanics. Because right now it's getting very stale.

edit: realized there's a similar thread so added more stuff to discuss.

I-Like-Pie45
05-31-2014, 06:04 AM
Dinosaurs

SpiritOfNevaeh
05-31-2014, 06:10 AM
As long as the combat system is not too much like AC1, I don't care much lol. That combat IMO was a bit hard for me...

JustPlainQuirky
05-31-2014, 06:12 AM
I got utterly destroyed in AC1 combat, ironically. But mainly because I couldn't figure out how to counter properly. It would explain the change to a more simplistic counter. But then it got too easy.

It's like there's no middle

I liked when I didn't have regenerating health in AC:2 and AC:B. More tension and focus went into each of my battles. Even if I did usually have 5 potions to back me up.

AdamPearce
05-31-2014, 06:34 AM
I got utterly destroyed in AC1 combat, ironically. But mainly because I couldn't figure out how to counter properly. It would explain the change to a more simplistic counter. But then it got too easy.

It's like there's no middle

I liked when I didn't have regenerating health in AC:2 and AC:B. More tension and focus went into each of my battles. Even if I did usually have 5 potions to back me up.

They were absolutely no tension in ACII-B-R since your life heals quicker than the ennemy attacks and that you have like 25 full regen potions on you...

No regen + ACI-III system = Best difficulty

In regard to your request, everything has been said. I don't know if you realise but the community is asking for this since likely ACBrotherhood. Sure ACIII added stuff, but it only change the controls, didn't really change the way of the game. I hope you now understand how cheap and disappointing the last 4 AC have been in term of gameplay. It was either broken or uncomplete, sometimes both (AC3). But don't expect any change anytime soon. As long as they keep the annual releases, they won't risk a massive refont, too expensive and too risky.

JustPlainQuirky
05-31-2014, 06:38 AM
@adam

that really sucks but I can see that being the reality.

I respect Ubisoft as a company and believe their decisions are a lot better than other big companies (aside from poor PC optimization) but it saddens me there might not be big risks in gameplay changes. It doesn't allow the franchise to evolve by any means.

But if it has been said before and nothing has changed, then that is a bit disappointing to hear. (I wouldnt know because I'm relatively new to the franchise)

king-hailz
05-31-2014, 08:40 AM
Well don't worry I am sure they will change ALOT of game play aspects of the game, this is because they have said they are making the game from the ground up so they aren't borrowing anything from previous games... and I doubt they will start again just to include the same systems which dint work too well. Expect a new combat system and a new free running system. However I actually love the combat in AC1 It always felt intense when battling the guards and I used to actually feel scared when the guards detect me. Also when the guards find a dead body I was really scared... The irony is that in AC2 they added the ability to pick up guards which would have worked in the first game but the combat was so easy in the second game that it didn't matter and that feeling had literally disappeared. I really hope they hit the right spot with Unity.

jayjay275
05-31-2014, 09:38 AM
I enjoyed AC3's combat the most, but it is still incredibly easy.

oliacr
05-31-2014, 09:40 AM
The combat is getting better in every year. I hope we will see some improvements in Unity as well.

AherasSTRG
05-31-2014, 11:08 AM
Personally, apart from a few AI issues, I cannot see any problem with the AC combat system.

yankeegamergirl
05-31-2014, 05:35 PM
I hate games where the combat system relies on a ridiculous amount of button combos. I'm just not good at memorizing too many different moves for several different scenarios. This is the same reason I dislike AC3's combat (although not as much).

^ Pretty much this. I don't know if I could hang if AC's combat became too challenging. Then again, combat should always be secondary to stealth assassination in this game in my opinion.

RinoTheBouncer
06-08-2014, 11:39 AM
Hey everyone,

Throughout AC games from ACI to ACIV, weíve received a lot of upgrades in the Assassinís armory that we can carry 4 pistols, two swords, crossbow or blowpipe, hidden pistol, hidden blades..etc. and it was fun while it lasted, but I think weíre all forgetting one thing ďMelee CombatĒ. That aspectís been abandoned since the very beginning. Yes, we can punch or disarm but what about improving that to some real lethal moves? If Iím an Assassin who can run on rooftops, jump from one building to another with light and agile free-running moves, and I can handle various types of jumps, drops, weapons, attacks, and enemies, then why donít I have better melee combat skills?

Can we just think for a moment of how awesome it would be if we could do some acrobatic moves during fighting, back flips or flipping over an enemy and breaking their neck when weíre behind them or the likes?

Donít tell me this doesnít feel like Assassinís Creed because the pistols and shotguns werenít part of Assassinís Creed and neither was the naval combat but here it is and many people are ok with it. So whatís wrong with improving melee combat and relying more on skill than a moving armory? we can have weapons but when we have such moves, it can make much more sense. The weapons weíre using arenít sniper rifles with a silencer equipped so they alert others and when youíre cornered by many, you canít be precise enough to shoot does it make sense to be deflecting a sword attack from one side and being slashed from another, but having these fast moves can actually make sense when facing enemies individually or as a one-manís army.

Discuss...

DinoSteve1
06-08-2014, 11:52 AM
Hey everyone,

Throughout AC games from ACI to ACIV, we’ve received a lot of upgrades in the Assassin’s armory that we can carry 4 pistols, two swords, crossbow or blowpipe, hidden pistol, hidden blades..etc. and it was fun while it lasted, but I think we’re all forgetting one thing “Melee Combat”. That aspect’s been abandoned since the very beginning. Yes, we can punch or disarm but what about improving that to some real lethal moves? If I’m an Assassin who can run on rooftops, jump from one building to another with light and agile free-running moves, and I can handle various types of jumps, drops, weapons, attacks, and enemies, then why don’t I have better melee combat skills?

Can we just think for a moment of how awesome it would be if we could do some acrobatic moves during fighting, back flips or flipping over an enemy and breaking their neck when we’re behind them or the likes?

Don’t tell me this doesn’t feel like Assassin’s Creed because the pistols and shotguns weren’t part of Assassin’s Creed and neither was the naval combat but here it is and many people are ok with it. So what’s wrong with improving melee combat and relying more on skill than a moving armory? we can have weapons but when we have such moves, it can make much more sense. The weapons we’re using aren’t sniper rifles with a silencer equipped so they alert others and when you’re cornered by many, you can’t be precise enough to shoot does it make sense to be deflecting a sword attack from one side and being slashed from another, but having these fast moves can actually make sense when facing enemies individually or as a one-man’s army.

Discuss...
tbh it depends where and when it is set, for instance the fighting styles of 19th century France would contain very few acrobatic moves. It would look out of place.

Ugh the mods are fusing threads again.

RinoTheBouncer
06-08-2014, 11:58 AM
tbh it depends where and when it is set, for instance the fighting styles of 19th century France would contain very few acrobatic moves. It would look out of place.

Ugh the mods are fusing threads again.

I wonder why they’re fusing threads. My thread was a suggestion not a complaint...

DinoSteve1
06-08-2014, 12:08 PM
I wonder why they’re fusing threads. My thread was a suggestion not a complaint...
I suppose it was too similar to this one.

m4r-k7
06-08-2014, 12:25 PM
In my opinion the best combat was in the original AC. Not only were battles incredibly intense, but you were able to do light and heavy attacks by holding down the combat button. What they are doing now is making enemy types that require the boring routine of having to break their defence and then kill them, whilst others you can kill in one hit. The reason why AC 1 was so special is that you used combat as a last resort i.e. when stealth didn't turn out the way you wanted it to. AC 2 combat was alright but again its incredibly demoralising and boring when you keep on being counter attacked by another guard. I don't really know what to suggest. I think Brotherhood fighting was probably the most perfect in terms of it was a mix between waiting and striking, variety with different weapons, and then you could start a combo although it didn't last as long. There is some thing that Arkham City does incredibly. The problem is with AC combat is that its becoming so fast paced that the fighting starts to look stupid. They need to slow it down again like it was with AC 1 - AC B. At times the combat just looks stupid because its so quick. I personally would like more dynamic / realistic fighting. For example with a sword you actually have a sword fight with the guards and you have to pick the right time to strike. I think counters work, but at the moment its too easy to kill the normal guards whilst its incredibly boring to kill the different enemy archetypes as theres basically only one way to kill the fatter / more skilled guards.

GunnerGalactico
06-08-2014, 12:30 PM
Hey everyone,

Throughout AC games from ACI to ACIV, we’ve received a lot of upgrades in the Assassin’s armory that we can carry 4 pistols, two swords, crossbow or blowpipe, hidden pistol, hidden blades..etc. and it was fun while it lasted, but I think we’re all forgetting one thing “Melee Combat”. That aspect’s been abandoned since the very beginning. Yes, we can punch or disarm but what about improving that to some real lethal moves? If I’m an Assassin who can run on rooftops, jump from one building to another with light and agile free-running moves, and I can handle various types of jumps, drops, weapons, attacks, and enemies, then why don’t I have better melee combat skills?

Can we just think for a moment of how awesome it would be if we could do some acrobatic moves during fighting, back flips or flipping over an enemy and breaking their neck when we’re behind them or the likes?

Don’t tell me this doesn’t feel like Assassin’s Creed because the pistols and shotguns weren’t part of Assassin’s Creed and neither was the naval combat but here it is and many people are ok with it. So what’s wrong with improving melee combat and relying more on skill than a moving armory? we can have weapons but when we have such moves, it can make much more sense. The weapons we’re using aren’t sniper rifles with a silencer equipped so they alert others and when you’re cornered by many, you can’t be precise enough to shoot does it make sense to be deflecting a sword attack from one side and being slashed from another, but having these fast moves can actually make sense when facing enemies individually or as a one-man’s army.

Discuss...

Urghh!... My post disappeared while they were fusing the threads.

I like your suggestions, but I kind of agree with Steveeire... acrobatic moves does look out of place in certain eras and settings and it will look "Kung Fooey" and over-the-top in my opinion. I wouldn't mind acrobatic evasive moves, that seems plausible because of the free-running and climbing... we can expect the assassins to be nimble and light-footed. I would prefer the assassins' fighting style to remain grounded, simple but deadly.

Sushiglutton
06-08-2014, 12:43 PM
Yeah not the best modding decision, we all make misstakes though :).

I completely agree with you Rhino. A slightly more acrobatic approach would allow for a deeper combat system also (assuming we had control of them and they were not just contextual). For example repositioning ourselves vs enemies, using objects in the enviroment (like poles, walls and so on). Basically AC is still playing catchup with 2004's PoP WW in the combat area.

Shahkulu101
06-08-2014, 12:47 PM
Yeah not the best modding decision, we all make misstakes though :).

I completely agree with you Rhino. A slightly more acrobatic approach would allow for a deeper combat system also (assuming we had control of them and they were not just contextual). For example repositioning ourselves vs enemies, using objects in the enviroment (like poles, walls and so on). Basically AC is still playing catchup with 2004's PoP WW in the combat area.

It's not playing catchup if you're not even trying to improve - each evolution of the combat system has served to make things simpler and look more 'cool'.

Sushiglutton
06-08-2014, 12:52 PM
It's not playing catchup if you're not even trying to improve - each evolution of the combat system has served to make things simpler and look more 'cool'.

That's sadly true. The guiding philosophy for combat/parkour in AC3 was way off (and AC4 suffered the same as it was ctrl+C, ctrl+V of AC3).

king-hailz
06-08-2014, 12:53 PM
My Idea For A New Combat System In Assassin's Creed?

So my idea for the combat system in assassins creed is to use the idea that fighting games like tekken have, which assign a different limb to a different button. Tekken uses SQUARE and TRIANGLE to control the right and left punches and then uses X and CIRCLE to control the right and left kicks. So in assassins creed i think they should use this to make it more fun and rewarding then it is now.

This is how it should work:

The enemy attack you, you press CIRCLE to counter.

You then follow up with a 3 hit combo. Using 3 different buttons on the controller, SQUARE to control the characters left punch, TRIANGLE to control the characters right punch, X to Control the characters kick and circle to disarm the character.

The 3 hit combo hits the opponent and takes him out in the 3rd hit. E.g. I press circle to counter and then follow up with SQUARE TRIANGLE SQUARE. The final SQUARE kills your enemy. Each combination of the buttons has a different combo attack to kill the opponent.

This will also work with the dual weapons. If you have a sword in the right hand and have the hidden blade in the left you could do this:

CIRCLE to counter, X SQUARE TRIANGLE, this will let the character kick the enemy the stab him in the stomach with the hidden blade and slash his neck with sword in a combo... However at certain times the enemy will block the last attack and then try to attack you which you will have to quickly press circle to counter again ( the counter this time will be much harder making it more likely for you to get hit by the enemy) and when you counter for a second time successfully you can follow up with just one button to kill your enemy.

When you are in the middle of a combo the enemies around you can easily attack you so you have to be prepared to counter them an example of how this could work is:

You press CIRCLE to counter, then SQUARE SQUARE TRIANGLE, but while you are doing this combo another enemy is about to attack you so you either get hit and lose a lot of life or you are prepared and quickly press CIRCLE to counter and you have to follow this with another CIRCLE to throw the enemy away or you get attacked and lose more life. However if you are successful in this after the throw you can press SQUARE TRIANGLE or X to kill the opponent you were attacking first in one hit.

To make it more rewarding you will start with only a couple of combos to kill your enemies and you will unlock more if you are successful with 20 combo kills to unlock more combos to do and then more at 50 kills.

But this won't be a waiting game for you to just wait for the enemies to attack, you can also attack anyway like you can now but it will not kill them easily... It will take ages for you to kill an opponent this way but if you do attack this way the enemy will block a lot of your attacks and after a while they will counter and you will have to press certain buttons to deflect their combos. E.g.

You attack and then the enemy counters and is about to do a 3 hit combo on you which will make you lose 70% of your life if they succeed at the 3 hit combo. They counter and then are about to do a combo which you will have to press SQUARE TRIANGLE and X to deflect. At first it will tell which to press for each attack to deflect it but then you will have to learn...

You attack and it is countered and then the enemy is about to punch which you have to press SQUARE at the right time to deflect, then the enemy is about to kick you and you have to press X to deflect and then the enemy strikes you with his sword which is where you have to press TRIANGLE to deflect and after this you lose 30% of your life by deflecting to make it harder and then the enemy is left unarmed and easy to kill.

This combat system will also allow the boss fights to be quite cool e.g. If their is a Templar boss who wields an axe and a dagger you will have to do more to kill the enemy...

The Templar attacks you and you counter and then press SQUARE TRIANGLE X, the enemy will always deflect the last hit and then attack you and you will have to counter again with CIRCLE and hit him again but this won't kill him... just injure him... If you attack him and the enemy counters you will have to go through a step of things to deflect the attacks... The boss will be different to normal enemies and can hit you with a 5 hit combo which will kill you if they succeed. But you won't just have to press SQUARE TRIANGLE AND X to deflect... The boss can attack with his sword and you will have to keep pressing TRIANGLE to stop him or he will get you.

So this is my idea based off the combat system they have already but by making it more fun and rewarding... and with the next gen hardware they should be able to add a lot of combos for each set of weapons making it fun to watch the enemy die with cool animations but also making it fun to play and hard with certain things you have to master to not get hit.... tell me what you think of this..... BTW it would be really annoying if anyone actually took my idea and made it in their game... as this is my own idea that took some thinking... but thanks anyway if you read this.