PDA

View Full Version : Pac Fighters will use new Shader 3 textures



Snuffy Smith
09-07-2004, 10:12 AM
Description of Shader 3 effects with some good screen shots.

http://developer.nvidia.com/object/using_vertex_textures.html

"I wanted wings till I got the gosh darned things; now I don't want'em anymore."
I just want the peek-a-boo blonde.
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7kxfm/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/lakeveronicasalute231.jpg

Snuffy Smith
09-07-2004, 10:12 AM
Description of Shader 3 effects with some good screen shots.

http://developer.nvidia.com/object/using_vertex_textures.html

"I wanted wings till I got the gosh darned things; now I don't want'em anymore."
I just want the peek-a-boo blonde.
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7kxfm/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/lakeveronicasalute231.jpg

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-07-2004, 11:14 AM
Makes my purchase of that MSI 6800ultra look even smarter. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif


Our FB server info: http://www.greatergreen.com/il2

S 8
09-07-2004, 11:48 AM
Whoa!Gorgeous water.

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
09-07-2004, 11:52 AM
well i am no Tech "Crack" but what's new about vertex textures ?

http://home.arcor.de/sebastianleitiger/other%20Stuff/we%20rule%20your%20world3.jpg (http://www.hell-hounds.de)

Agamemnon22
09-07-2004, 12:25 PM
They are new. Before this, vertex shaders were only used for lighting. You calculate the amount of light at each vertex of a give triangle and interpolate the lighting over its surface. No texture consideration anywhere, whatsoever. What vertex textures mean is that you can modify your lighting model by using textures to do things to the verteces. Displacemant mapping, for instance, moves verts up and down according to a value in a texture. It doesn't replace pixel shader, but it can augment it, as we see with the water. Hence Shader Model 3.0, as opposed to just Pixel Shader 3.

El Turo
09-07-2004, 01:14 PM
Wow.. I think that there link will be selling a whole lot of 6800 cards!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

*eyes VISA card*


Hmm..

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

LStarosta
09-07-2004, 01:32 PM
Dammit.. I thought by "Pac Fighters" you meant some new Pac Man game... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!
Spitfire = Technoblabble(Oleg/"Favors Recieved" from [wo]men)^PI(Magic 8 Ball)(amount of LSD Taken+Booze)(Position of the Earth Relative to the Sun)(Position of the Sun relative to God)^2

"You must factor in the alignment of the planets for the day in which the equation is completed, because the Spit can harness the power of the Earth's rotation and we're working on harnessing the power of ALL rotating and revolving objects in our solar system, later the whole universe, thus boosting the Spit's top speed to r0xx0rz KPH." -Dr. Nathan Roberts

Flying online as Mr. Brown

1.JaVA_Razer
09-07-2004, 02:00 PM
http://multimedialab.elis.ugent.be/h2ocean/

Download that and run it, I get such nice looking water also with my 9800 pro :s

Ok not like the 1st corsair pic but, it does it's job :s

yet again what I know is that SM3.0 i sjust fatser/ can be programmed more, not that it has new features? or does these features come from the faster speeds?(now being able to do so without loosing performance)

------------------------------
Teamplay on a dogfightserverhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif
It sounds like a classic game of air-quake!?


Quote from extreme One


------------------------------
http://www.entity-project.tk
------------------------------
AMD 2500+ @3200+
Asus A7n8X-X
512MB DDR 3200 Apacer
Sapphire 9800 atlantis PRO
2x80mm Coolermaster fans
1x 120 mm PAPST fan
Thermalright SP 97 CPU cooler
Sunbeam rheobus

LuckyBoy1
09-07-2004, 05:11 PM
But will it have indoor plumbing?

Now with an actual index & more fiber! It is newer & and even more improved! It's Luckyboy's Guide For Complete Users!...

http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/tech_lbguide.htm#001%20Security%20Issues

Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.

LEXX_Luthor
09-07-2004, 05:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But will it have indoor plumbing?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, but tha AI will still see the textures in the dark at 7km range. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

...unless they are changing that and not talking about it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Spinne_3.-JG51
09-07-2004, 05:48 PM
Damn, that is some good looking water!

LStarosta
09-07-2004, 07:35 PM
Thirsty?

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!
Spitfire = Technoblabble(Oleg/"Favors Recieved" from [wo]men)^PI(Magic 8 Ball)(amount of LSD Taken+Booze)(Position of the Earth Relative to the Sun)(Position of the Sun relative to God)^2

"You must factor in the alignment of the planets for the day in which the equation is completed, because the Spit can harness the power of the Earth's rotation and we're working on harnessing the power of ALL rotating and revolving objects in our solar system, later the whole universe, thus boosting the Spit's top speed to r0xx0rz KPH." -Dr. Nathan Roberts

Flying online as Mr. Brown

[]_---_[] KITT
09-07-2004, 10:27 PM
HELP i can't swim http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/roh_kudus/Sig_Tiger.gif
"And if we are able thus to attack an inferior force with a superior one, our opponents will be in dire straits" Sun Tzu

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2004, 10:33 PM
I sure hope all of you just keep looking at that gorgeous water all around while my Zero or Tony approaches.

woofiedog
09-07-2004, 11:16 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif WOW! Why would the ATI Board not work though?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/WOOFIEDOG.jpg

heywooood
09-07-2004, 11:44 PM
ok... it IS the water...and a whole lot more http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"check your puns"

falco_cz
09-08-2004, 01:59 AM
OK, but will teeh PF have better visibility distance and flater horizont or we still get the "fisheye" feelings from higher atitude?
Water will be always just ...water and PF never will be a submarine sim I guess.

DarthBane_
09-08-2004, 02:19 AM
Since developers are in contact with nvidia, maybe at last we could get JAGGED EDGES problem solved? I have 6800U and problem still exists. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

DarthBane_
09-08-2004, 02:26 AM
And could the metal parts recive some reflections? Or is it called enviromental mapping? Curently we have metal ingame that doesnt look like metal, more like plastic.

tfu_iain1
09-08-2004, 02:38 AM
Just to clarify, does this mean ATI cards simply can't do the water effects we've been seeing in the development updates?

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country."

Fritzofn
09-08-2004, 07:04 AM
they can do water effects...but not as gorgeus as the nVidia card's

but, u get higher FPS on ATI card's :-)


(Proud owner of X800Pro)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
When u get to HELL, Tell'em I'll sent u.....U'll get a group discount
------------------------------------------------------------------------

IAFS_Painter
09-08-2004, 07:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DarthBane_:
Since developers are in contact with nvidia, maybe at last we could get JAGGED EDGES problem solved? I have 6800U and problem still exists. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you tried using Anti-Aliasing from your nVidia set-up.
Get to it through right-click on desk-top ... properties ... settings ... advanced ...


Don't try setting AA up from inside FB/IL2 ...

http://www.robert-stuart.me.uk/il2/signature/paint_sig_003.jpg
il2airracing.com (http://www.il2airracing.com) Painter's Pages (http://www.robert-stuart.me.uk/il2)
I've given up correcting my own spelling
Unless I've corrected it here

OldMan____
09-08-2004, 07:20 AM
No you wont get faster FPS on ATI cards.

SM 3.0 is much more powerfull than 2.0 one. You can make a lot of effects that in 2.0 needed fancy complicated workarounds..directly. So usually you can get better performance with SM 3.0 is there is a shader developed to do so.

Also in the case of Vertex Shaders.. , while in 2.0 you could only use the modelView and projection matrix as sources of information for displacing, moving, or lighting your vertex, now you can access texture informations. In other words you can re-feed VS form PS (when using render to texture) and create some very effect that are impossible with a foward only pipeline like in SM 2.0.


SM.30 also boast dynamic branch in shaders, that permits thing like IF condition1 is true.. tha make shading like that.. otherwise.. make it like that. Since now you have brachs, SM 3.0 is a touring complete language..

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

Obi_Kwiet
09-08-2004, 11:50 AM
ATI will release PS3.0 for it cards soon, in the form of a driver.

Cragger
09-08-2004, 11:58 AM
Provided the hardward extensions for PS3 HAVE been built into the chipset of the X800s. If not well I said ATI was shooting itself in the foot for not preping for PS3 support like Nvidia. Still a great powerfull cards but it feels like they where banking on the very slow adoption of PS3 like DX9 that is just starting to be fully used by games these days.

http://redspar.com/redrogue/cragger_sig.jpg

VF-2_John_Banks
09-08-2004, 01:10 PM
Why all this hype about the damn water in a flight sim? IMO, animated water, which has been optimized to death, is probably the least important part of a flight sim. I wish they would polish the FM the same way, they polish the water. Where is the benefit in having a sim with ultra realistic water, while the planes still feel like scripted roller coasters?

I can't believe that they put so much effort into this, instead of optimizing the FM, which should have been done over a year ago for FB. But the way the flight sim community is focused on the water clearly shows, that the good ole sense for a realistic simulation of flight has gone the way of the dodo. Reading threads like this is like visiting some weirdo XBox console forum for 8 year old kids..."looks at this! look at this!"

I think i just went OT heh? Just wanted to let you know, that there is more about a flight sim than animated water. Maybe some people in here should put their expectations to thought and rethink what a "FLIGHT" sim should focus on. I fear that PF becomes what the MSFS 2004 already is...a nice screenshot simulator.

VF-2_John_Banks
09-08-2004, 03:15 PM
The FM in AEP isn't terrible, but i guess that if they'd put as many effort into the FM, as they put on eye candy, it wouldn't feel so weird as it does right now..sometimes. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

OldMan____
09-08-2004, 04:08 PM
No.. ATI will not deliver SM 3.0 in current cards.. that is impossible by their architecture. Ther hardware do NOT SUPPORT dynamic Branches!! Neither have acces to textures in first pipeline stages (raster and T&L are separated). Just look at the published architecture diagrams of their boards.


Implementing SM 3.0 is not a simple add on feature.. is a WHOLE DIFFERENT level of language. One is a touring complete language.. other not. Like sayin that your pocket calculator will be upgraded to a computer.. they are totally different machines (no.. is not speed the issue here)

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

DarthElvis
09-08-2004, 08:18 PM
edited for no real reason http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
btw ,whats the other shader version(s) for the majority of us without SM3.0 cards ?

LEXX_Luthor
09-08-2004, 08:37 PM
VF-2_John_Banks I agree, but Fancy Water is about the only natural envrionment New Feature offered by game Developers on a regular basis--or allowed by their poorly managed Publishers. You really can't blame the flight simmers for not "wanting" more. Fancy Water is all they get, and they know it. What can a flight simmer do?



Stiglr:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I sure hope all of you just keep looking at that gorgeous water all around while my Zero or Tony approaches.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
They should be looking up at the clouds ready for The Bounce.



What flight sim will be the first to use the clouds of the Pacific Air Combat Environment?
http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/historic/nws/images/wea00085.jpg
~ http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

DarthBane_
09-09-2004, 03:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IAFS_Painter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DarthBane_:
Since developers are in contact with nvidia, maybe at last we could get JAGGED EDGES problem solved? I have 6800U and problem still exists. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you tried using Anti-Aliasing from your nVidia set-up.
Get to it through right-click on desk-top ... properties ... settings ... advanced ...


Don't try setting AA up from inside FB/IL2 ...

http://www.robert-stuart.me.uk/il2/signature/paint_sig_003.jpg
http://www.il2airracing.com http://www.robert-stuart.me.uk/il2
I've given up correcting my own spelling
Unless I've corrected it here
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jaged edges on river banks, sea shore and plane and unit markings, they dont recive aa from unknown reason, if dev team is implementing ps3.0 they could also resolve this issue which is acording to tham nvidia problem. This is anoying issue and spoils visual quality. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Extreme_One
09-09-2004, 05:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DarthBane_:
[...Jaged edges on river banks, sea shore and plane and unit markings, they dont recive aa from unknown reason, if dev team is implementing ps3.0 they could also resolve this issue which is acording to tham nvidia problem. This is anoying issue and spoils visual quality. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know exactly what you mean but surely it isn't an Nvidia problem - I see what you describe with a Radeon card too.

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-Ex_1_sig.jpg

Submit your files to the IL2 website (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=788102065)

il2submissions@ubisoft.co.uk

Download my campaigns here (http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_campaigns_Extreme.htm)

609IAP_Recon
09-09-2004, 05:38 AM
"No, but tha AI will still see the textures in the dark at 7km range.

...unless they are changing that and not talking about it "

LOL - nice one.

I agree.

S!
609IAP_Recon
http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


Full Real Virtual Online War: Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com)

BaldieJr
09-09-2004, 08:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF-2_John_Banks:
Where is the benefit in having a sim with ultra realistic water, while the planes still feel like scripted roller coasters?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It sells, thats the benefit.

As long as the game can capture the eye of the non-flight simmer, its considered the perfect sim.

We need more people in this genre. End of story. More consumers = more titles = higher chance of getting something done right (like IL2, relative to other combat sims).

Stay positive.

<A HREF="http://officemax.secureportal.com/" TARGET=_blank>
Hey ya'll prepare yourselves
for the rubberband man!</A>
http://www.fighterjerks.com/rbman.png
http://www.fighterjerks.com

VF-2_John_Banks
09-09-2004, 09:10 AM
Good point about the clouds Luthor! I wish they would make the clouds as good looking as the water, cause clouds are much more important for a flight sim, than water! We need a real overcast sky in PF and not his cumulus clouds with haze between them, which is only a poor mans overcast sky. If there was enough time to improve the water, there also was enough time to improve the clouds, which they are actually pretending. Although no screenshot i have seen so far show better looking clouds than AEP. They seem not to care too much about clouds. Shame!

Fritzofn
09-09-2004, 11:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
No you wont get faster FPS on ATI cards.

SM 3.0 is much more powerfull than 2.0 one. You can make a lot of effects that in 2.0 needed fancy complicated workarounds..directly. So usually you can get better performance with SM 3.0 is there is a shader developed to do so.

Also in the case of Vertex Shaders.. , while in 2.0 you could only use the modelView and projection matrix as sources of information for displacing, moving, or lighting your vertex, now you can access texture informations. In other words you can re-feed VS form PS (when using render to texture) and create some very effect that are impossible with a foward only pipeline like in SM 2.0.


SM.30 also boast dynamic branch in shaders, that permits thing like IF condition1 is true.. tha make shading like that.. otherwise.. make it like that. Since now you have brachs, SM 3.0 is a touring complete language..

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


All test done todate with nVidia and ATI card's has shown that Shader 3 is better graphics, but nVidias card's is just too damn slow, they have gone on the same trap 3Dfx did. too mutch tech in to short time, ATI will now have the abillity to surpase nVidia, and other competitors have a chance of actually start a competition against nVidia, espesially in the price range.

www.hardocp.com (http://www.hardocp.com) is the last page that i read this on, and even tomshardware.com has come to the same conclution.

I belive that when nVidia bought 3Dfx, they got LOADS of patents aswell, but, most of thise patents can't be used yet, both GPU's and CPU's are stil WAAAY to weak to use the technology, nVidia might loose focus on the goal of a new video-card every 6 months (as they prommised in the start)
the SLI mode nVidia has developed has taken some 4 years to developed (3Dfx started development YEARS ago to have 2 PCI card's SLI'ed with a AGP card)
what nVidia should focus on is multicored card's, i know the X800 core to ATI has possibility to build a card with 4 core's, and 1-2 GB of memmory, now, THAT would be a kick *** card...........

nVidia is no longer king.
and i predict they might even get in deeper troubble in about 1-2 years

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
When u get to HELL, Tell'em I'll sent u.....U'll get a group discount
------------------------------------------------------------------------

IV_JG51_Razor
09-09-2004, 11:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF-2_John_Banks:
The FM in AEP isn't terrible, but i guess that if they'd put as many effort into the FM, as they put on eye candy, it wouldn't feel so weird as it does right now..sometimes. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe it feels so weird because you're sitting at a desk while your cockpit is whirling about the sky! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Razor
IV/JG51 11/12 Staffelkapitan
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)
Forgotten Skies Online War
http://www.forgottenskies.com/ForgottenWars/default.aspx
"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"