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RinoTheBouncer
05-09-2014, 05:55 PM
Hey everyone,

Since many of us have noticed some plot holes in the AC universe or let’s say story inconsistencies or matters that were not clarified or proved otherwise, so far, use this thread to list the plot holes you know and feel free to discuss the ones written by others if you have other explanations to them.

Here’s one that came to my mind: If Minerva knew that the Assassins and Templars have wasted centuries and “so they have lost their chance”, as she said. Then why bother telling Desmond? it’s not like she met Desmond centuries ago. She only communicated to him through Ezio.

Here’s another:
If Minerva has a device “The Eye” that can tell possibilities, why didn’t she see it coming that telling Desmond will only lead to him freeing Juno, which is what she did not want? if she could see the possibilities then why didn’t she avoid contacting the one who is gonna do exactly the opposite of what she asked? I think this is a plot hole unless this whole Desmond journey is nothing but a vision of Minerva, a possibility that she’s viewing, not what really happened.

And another: if Minerva can see the possibilities, why couldn’t she stop Juno from uploading herself into the device and instead, found a way to destroy her, permanently? and why didn’t they use the device to stop the apocalypse before Juno could link herself to it so that using it will free her? and why didn’t they use the device and set Juno free and then killed her with their own knowledge and weapons and instead, left her to whether someone else in the future will decide to free her or not and put the burden of killing her on humans who don’t know her nor they’re as strong as she is, like Minerva and Tinea are?

jayjay275
05-09-2014, 06:00 PM
If Desmond has a high concentration of First Civilization DNA, why did he get Eagle Vision only after reliving Altair's memories? Shouldn't he have had this skill since his birth?
(unsure if plothole)

RinoTheBouncer
05-09-2014, 06:06 PM
If Desmond has a high concentration of First Civilization DNA, why did he get Eagle Vision only after reliving Altair's memories? Shouldn't he have had this skill since his birth?
(unsure if plothole)

Good point. I mean if his First Civ. DNA is high enough to activate the pedestal instead of his father, for example, why didn’t he get it since birth? why did it need a way to unlock?

Kirokill
05-09-2014, 06:12 PM
Desmond's left shining hand that was a fragment of Subject 16s. It did do nothing in the world saving and Desmond was dead in the end.

Locopells
05-09-2014, 06:18 PM
Good point. I mean if his First Civ. DNA is high enough to activate the pedestal instead of his father, for example, why didn’t he get it since birth? why did it need a way to unlock?

Why not. Surely there can be a level high enough to activate, but not auto-get EV without help?


Desmond's left shining hand that was a fragment of Subject 16s. It did do nothing in the world saving and Desmond was dead in the end.

Was that ever meant to be anything more than a visual link to the Apple?

pacmanate
05-09-2014, 06:40 PM
Why not. Surely there can be a level high enough to activate, but not auto-get EV without help?



Was that ever meant to be anything more than a visual link to the Apple?

Visual link? It wasn't needed if thats what it was. Having that glowing arm did NOTHING. I thought it might save desmond, but that theory was destroyed in AC4 .

Hans684
05-09-2014, 07:34 PM
Desmond's left shining hand that was a fragment of Subject 16s. It did do nothing in the world saving and Desmond was dead in the end.

After DNA sequence 1.

[...]
Desmond was forcibly returned to Animus Island from Ezio's memories.

Desmond: What the hell just happened?
Clay: You were snooping. Wandering outside the Desmond partition. So once the Animus located you, it pulled you back here. It's just following orders... like a failsafe program. Trying to keep your poor head intact, whether you like it or not.
Desmond: And what are you doing here exactly?
Clay: Playing. Learning. Waiting. A lot of waiting. I keep the Animus distracted as best I can. For you, so you can explore. Otherwise it might hunt you down like a little virus and ah... delete you.
Desmond: Well, my guardian angel.
Clay: There's no such thing.
[...]

After DNA sequence 8.

[...]
Meanwhile, inside the Animus, the machine planned to wipe Animus Island of all its contents, with Clay and Desmond along with it. As the threat of being deleted was finally at hand, it spurred one last conversation between the two.

Clay: Here it comes...
Desmond: What is that?! What's going on!
Clay: This is the end Desmond. Scheduled for deletion!

Clay embraced Desmond tightly, bewildering the Assassin in the process.

Desmond: What are you doing?!
Clay: What is a man but the sum of his memories? We are the stories we live! The tales we tell ourselves!

Jumping to the conclusion that Clay intended to take both of them to their deaths, Desmond pleaded with him.

Desmond: Don't do this!
Clay: I'm saving you, idiot! GO!

Clay pushed Desmond towards the Sync Nexus, as he began to be erased by the system deletion. However, it would not stop him from shouting out one final command to Desmond.

Clay: GO!

He saved him, the gloving mark he has on his right hand is identical to the one he got by Clay when they where about to get deleted.

Wolfmeister1010
05-09-2014, 10:11 PM
I have a feeling that Desmond's personality or AI was integrated into the temple or some other POE, just like Clay was into animus.

Wouldn't it be cool if in Unity, we get "Truth" puzzles, but they are narrated by Desmond, just like the ones in AC2 were by 16?

SixKeys
05-09-2014, 11:24 PM
-The glowing arm thing is a plothole because it was completely pointless and never explained.

-Lucy defecting to the Templars makes no sense considering all the stuff she's seen and experienced. She was close to Vidic, she had seen firsthand what a manipulator he was. She knew something shady was going on at Abstergo ever since she was forcibly emprisoned there and her friend Leila Marino disappeared under mysterious circumstances, with Vidic outright refusing to answer questions about the incident. In TLA she stated her reason for defecting to the Templars was because "William doesn't care about us". How has Vidic ever shown he cares about his employees? Why would Lucy trust Vidic over William? During her time with the assassins, she saw all kinds of secrets the Templars had been trying to hide for millennia. Hell, Vidic outright mentioned to Desmond (within hearing distance of Lucy) that the Templars manipulate the history books to make themselves look better. What exactly had the Templars ever done to convince her they were more trustworthy than the assassins? In other words, what kind of massive c0ck-up could William ever have done that could possibly be worse than anything the Templars ever did?

-Speaking of Lucy, we never did find out where she disappeared for a whole sequence in ACB.

-What happened to all the artifacts Desmond found around the Villa in ACB? How come nobody else had ever noticed these ancient, extremely valuable historical relics just lying around? (Like the sword that was literally just stuck in the ground next to a tree.)

-Project Legacy is open on Lucy's computer in ACB. I know it's just an Easter egg, but if we consider it canon, what does that tell us? PL was an Abstergo training program. Did none of the other assassins ever wonder why Lucy was playing/hacking into something Abstergo was surely monitoring, thereby risking giving out their location?

-The whole Juno plot has devolved into one big cluster**** for all the reasons mentioned in the OP.

-Whatever became of Abstergo's Templar training program (aka ACB-ACR multiplayer)? They just suddenly decided to turn their top-secret assassination simulator into a video game? What happened to the agents who participated, like Otso Berg?

-Adewale suddenly has Eagle Vision in Freedom Cry, with no mention of this in the main game. I don't buy the "well, he spent years training with the assassins" excuse. Training alone doesn't activate a dormant gene. Desmond only learned to control his so quickly because he had an unusually high concentration of TWCB DNA.

roostersrule2
05-10-2014, 12:24 AM
Desmond's left shining hand that was a fragment of Subject 16s. It did do nothing in the world saving and Desmond was dead in the end.I'm pretty sure Desmond saved the world with his left hand, I think if it wasn't shining then nothing would have happened when he touched the orb.

SixKeys
05-10-2014, 12:37 AM
I'm pretty sure Desmond saved the world with his left hand, I think if it wasn't shining then nothing would have happened when he touched the orb.

If he could only save the world with his left arm (the one that was marked by Clay), then that leaves another huge plothole. The only reason he got that arm was because he happened to faint after killing Lucy (a coincidence), woke up inside the Animus with his senses intact (as opposed to going into a sleepless coma) and happened to meet Clay there, who just happened to have the foresight to upload his consciousness into the machine before killing himself. What if Desmond's trauma, and the resulting coma, had been irreversible? What if Clay hadn't managed to transfer whatever-it-was-he-transferred to Desmond before being deleted? What if the machine had glitched out and both of them had been deleted? What if Desmond had got his glowy arm cut off in an accident or during the infiltration to Abstergo? Would it mean he would no longer be able to save the world because he used the wrong arm to touch the orb?

There's just too many variables to account for Minerva and Juno being able to predict ALL possibilities. Basically Juno took a massive risk in forcing Desmond to kill Lucy if she knew it would make him fall into a coma. And she probably did, considering his coma was the only way he could meet Clay. It could easily have happened that Desmond didn't go into a coma, in which case....what, the world would have been doomed?

roostersrule2
05-10-2014, 12:46 AM
If he could only save the world with his left arm (the one that was marked by Clay), then that leaves another huge plothole. The only reason he got that arm was because he happened to faint after killing Lucy (a coincidence), woke up inside the Animus with his senses intact (as opposed to going into a sleepless coma) and happened to meet Clay there, who just happened to have the foresight to upload his consciousness into the machine before killing himself. What if Desmond's trauma, and the resulting coma, had been irreversible? What if Clay hadn't managed to transfer whatever-it-was-he-transferred to Desmond before being deleted? What if the machine had glitched out and both of them had been deleted? What if Desmond had got his glowy arm cut off in an accident or during the infiltration to Abstergo? Would it mean he would no longer be able to save the world because he used the wrong arm to touch the orb?

There's just too many variables to account for Minerva and Juno being able to predict ALL possibilities. Basically Juno took a massive risk in forcing Desmond to kill Lucy if she knew it would make him fall into a coma. And she probably did, considering his coma was the only way he could meet Clay. It could easily have happened that Desmond didn't go into a coma, in which case....what, the world would have been doomed?I thought the glowy arm came from Jupiter, when he said something like putting what's in your head in your hand. I agree though, it's impossible to think that Juno/Minerva could predict all possibilities, and yes Desmonds arm could have been cut off or what not.

Ubi didn't really think it through, I think we can all agree that ACR was unnecessary, while I like the game it did ruin AC's modern day.

cawatrooper9
05-10-2014, 06:44 AM
Not exactly a plot hole, but in ACR Clay asks Desmond to take him along, to which Desmond as not being an option. In the following memory, Ezio and the Galata Den Leader face off against the Sentinel, a former Assassin (who curiously seems more at place in the multiplayer, seeing as he seems to be more of an archetype than an actual character). I think that Ubisoft could have done something really cool with this, making Clay somehow controlling various Templars in Ezio's memories that might be foreign or anachronistic to the actual history. Eventually, after fighting his various avatars throughout the game, Clay could still have his big heroic moment, and he'd even have more to redeem himself for. As it is, the current exchange between 16 and Desmond just seems more like a non-sequiter.

LoyalACFan
05-10-2014, 08:30 AM
The entire modern story.

/thread

RinoTheBouncer
05-10-2014, 01:30 PM
Regarding those who talked about Desmond’s glowing arm. Maybe it did appear on Clay’s arms when they were in the Animus but why would it appear on Desmond in reality? in the Animus, they’re all simulations, programs, softwares, they’re not flesh and blood so the appearance of such effects is entirely possible. Why would it happen in real life, though?


-The glowing arm thing is a plothole because it was completely pointless and never explained.

-Lucy defecting to the Templars makes no sense considering all the stuff she's seen and experienced. She was close to Vidic, she had seen firsthand what a manipulator he was. She knew something shady was going on at Abstergo ever since she was forcibly emprisoned there and her friend Leila Marino disappeared under mysterious circumstances, with Vidic outright refusing to answer questions about the incident. In TLA she stated her reason for defecting to the Templars was because "William doesn't care about us". How has Vidic ever shown he cares about his employees? Why would Lucy trust Vidic over William? During her time with the assassins, she saw all kinds of secrets the Templars had been trying to hide for millennia. Hell, Vidic outright mentioned to Desmond (within hearing distance of Lucy) that the Templars manipulate the history books to make themselves look better. What exactly had the Templars ever done to convince her they were more trustworthy than the assassins? In other words, what kind of massive c0ck-up could William ever have done that could possibly be worse than anything the Templars ever did?

-Speaking of Lucy, we never did find out where she disappeared for a whole sequence in ACB.

-What happened to all the artifacts Desmond found around the Villa in ACB? How come nobody else had ever noticed these ancient, extremely valuable historical relics just lying around? (Like the sword that was literally just stuck in the ground next to a tree.)

-Project Legacy is open on Lucy's computer in ACB. I know it's just an Easter egg, but if we consider it canon, what does that tell us? PL was an Abstergo training program. Did none of the other assassins ever wonder why Lucy was playing/hacking into something Abstergo was surely monitoring, thereby risking giving out their location?

-The whole Juno plot has devolved into one big cluster**** for all the reasons mentioned in the OP.

-Whatever became of Abstergo's Templar training program (aka ACB-ACR multiplayer)? They just suddenly decided to turn their top-secret assassination simulator into a video game? What happened to the agents who participated, like Otso Berg?

-Adewale suddenly has Eagle Vision in Freedom Cry, with no mention of this in the main game. I don't buy the "well, he spent years training with the assassins" excuse. Training alone doesn't activate a dormant gene. Desmond only learned to control his so quickly because he had an unusually high concentration of TWCB DNA.

I completely agree with you points. I wanna add another regarding Lucy, why didn’t she appear with a red glow when Desmond used his eagle vision? isn’t the EV supposed to foresee whether someone’s good or bad? it made it feel like it’s just another Animus way of highlighting a target.

jayjay275
05-10-2014, 01:32 PM
I completely agree with you points. I wanna add another regarding Lucy, why didn’t she appear with a red glow when Desmond used his eagle vision? isn’t the EV supposed to foresee whether someone’s good or bad? it made it feel like it’s just another Animus way of highlighting a target.

That... that is a major plothole. :O

LoyalACFan
05-10-2014, 01:34 PM
I completely agree with you points. I wanna add another regarding Lucy, why didn’t she appear with a red glow when Desmond used his eagle vision? isn’t the EV supposed to foresee whether someone’s good or bad? it made it feel like it’s just another Animus way of highlighting a target.

Same with Al Mualim and Bartholomew Roberts

RinoTheBouncer
05-10-2014, 01:36 PM
That... that is a major plothole. :O

Yeah. I kept wondering why it happened that way. It feels like a lot of things in AC are neither answered nor made in a way that makes us speculate. It’s just pure WRONG unless proven otherwise with future mentions and now that Desmond’s saga is over, I doubt somebody’s gonna bother going back there and explaining what happened.

The games really need better writers and directors.


Same with Al Mualim and Bartholomew Roberts

Yeah, those too. Thanks for reminding me.

jayjay275
05-10-2014, 01:41 PM
Same with Al Mualim and Bartholomew Roberts

And that thief who tries to ambush you in a side mission in ACB.

LoyalACFan
05-10-2014, 01:49 PM
The games really need better writers and directors.

I don't think they need BETTER ones per se, they just need to keep the SAME ones so everybody's on the same freaking page. Patrice Desilets, Corey May, Jeffrey Yohalem, Matt Turner, Darby McDevitt and probably more people I'm forgetting have all had their hands in the AC writer's pie, and some of them aren't even involved with the franchise anymore. The standalone ancestor stories have all been good IMO (though we can argue all day about how well certain ones of them were executed :rolleyes:) but the overarching story is in absolute shambles and it ain't hard to figure out why.

LoyalACFan
05-10-2014, 01:50 PM
And that thief who tries to ambush you in a side mission in ACB.

Indeed. Betrayal just doesn't seem to jive with Eagle Vision :p

RinoTheBouncer
05-10-2014, 01:58 PM
I don't think they need BETTER ones per se, they just need to keep the SAME ones so everybody's on the same freaking page. Patrice Desilets, Corey May, Jeffrey Yohalem, Matt Turner, Darby McDevitt and probably more people I'm forgetting have all had their hands in the AC writer's pie, and some of them aren't even involved with the franchise anymore. The standalone ancestor stories have all been good IMO (though we can argue all day about how well certain ones of them were executed :rolleyes:) but the overarching story is in absolute shambles and it ain't hard to figure out why.

I wonder why they keep changing. I never really understood this whether in games or movies, why can’t one writer keeps writing the story or at least make sure that the next ones go through the past stories thoroughly so that no detail is left untouched. Regarding the Eagle Vision not detecting Al Mualim or Lucy, that’s pure bad writing and forgetfulness rather than continuity, because it’s only the first and second games and the ability is there from day one.

I do agree that the modern day story is more like excerpts or fragments of a whole. Most of it doesn’t connect or justify itself well, I agree about that, even though modern day is my most favorite part of AC except for the reductiveness that is ACIV.

cawatrooper9
05-10-2014, 02:09 PM
On the other hand, why didn't Ezio just use EV to assess whether or not Machiavelli was a traitor? That would've potentially cut down on that cat and mouse game.

Ureh
05-10-2014, 02:57 PM
On the other hand, why didn't Ezio just use EV to assess whether or not Machiavelli was a traitor? That would've potentially cut down on that cat and mouse game.

Probably one of those trust without cynicism things. Ezio truly wants to give Machiavelli the benefit of the doubt... he has faith in him no matter what.


I'm pretty sure Desmond saved the world with his left hand, I think if it wasn't shining then nothing would have happened when he touched the orb.

I think it was his right hand cause I was watching the Autopsy vid last night and it said right hand, right? :P
I was in the same boat as you though, I thought that glowy hand thing was from Tinia. "Put what I said to you from your head into your hand." or something like that. But I guess it might be from 16. Oh well don't matter now. x)

SixKeys
05-10-2014, 11:14 PM
I wonder why they keep changing. I never really understood this whether in games or movies, why can’t one writer keeps writing the story or at least make sure that the next ones go through the past stories thoroughly so that no detail is left untouched. Regarding the Eagle Vision not detecting Al Mualim or Lucy, that’s pure bad writing and forgetfulness rather than continuity, because it’s only the first and second games and the ability is there from day one.
.

Blame yearly releases. Had AC stayed a trilogy, I'm sure we'd have had mostly the same crew working on all three games over several years. But you can't expect the same writers to keep writing for the same franchise year after year after year. They'd never have a day off, for one thing, and writing six games in a row on such a tight schedule would drive anyone to a burnout.

Locopells
05-11-2014, 12:24 AM
Do we have to go through the Lucy and EV thing again? The whole point with EV is that it may highlight something you've picked up on subconsciously, but if you've no way of knowing who's an enemy, you're still screwed...


-The glowing arm thing is a plothole because it was completely pointless and never explained.

Can we differentiate between abandoned plot points, and plotholes where something is counteracted by something else? There could be any number of explanations for the whole glowing arm thing, but it's never said it didn't play a part somehow.


-Lucy defecting to the Templars makes no sense considering all the stuff she's seen and experienced. She was close to Vidic, she had seen firsthand what a manipulator he was. She knew something shady was going on at Abstergo ever since she was forcibly emprisoned there and her friend Leila Marino disappeared under mysterious circumstances, with Vidic outright refusing to answer questions about the incident. In TLA she stated her reason for defecting to the Templars was because "William doesn't care about us". How has Vidic ever shown he cares about his employees? Why would Lucy trust Vidic over William? During her time with the assassins, she saw all kinds of secrets the Templars had been trying to hide for millennia. Hell, Vidic outright mentioned to Desmond (within hearing distance of Lucy) that the Templars manipulate the history books to make themselves look better. What exactly had the Templars ever done to convince her they were more trustworthy than the assassins? In other words, what kind of massive c0ck-up could William ever have done that could possibly be worse than anything the Templars ever did?

We may never know. It explains why she's a mess at times though.


-Speaking of Lucy, we never did find out where she disappeared for a whole sequence in ACB.

Shopping, reporting to Vidic, who knows?


-What happened to all the artifacts Desmond found around the Villa in ACB? How come nobody else had ever noticed these ancient, extremely valuable historical relics just lying around? (Like the sword that was literally just stuck in the ground next to a tree.)

Think that's a design thing, to help us find them - I'm sure they were actually more hidden then that.


-Project Legacy is open on Lucy's computer in ACB. I know it's just an Easter egg, but if we consider it canon, what does that tell us? PL was an Abstergo training program. Did none of the other assassins ever wonder why Lucy was playing/hacking into something Abstergo was surely monitoring, thereby risking giving out their location?

Don't see why - they're all at, Shaun's in the database for example.


-The whole Juno plot has devolved into one big cluster**** for all the reasons mentioned in the OP.

That's the trouble with any form of time manipulations - the plotholes mount up after a while - and it's why they should stay well clear of actual time travel that some people have suggested...


-Whatever became of Abstergo's Templar training program (aka ACB-ACR multiplayer)? They just suddenly decided to turn their top-secret assassination simulator into a video game? What happened to the agents who participated, like Otso Berg?

Who says anything's happened to it? Just because they're using some footage to make a game doesn't mean they've stopped using the training Animui


-Adewale suddenly has Eagle Vision in Freedom Cry, with no mention of this in the main game. I don't buy the "well, he spent years training with the assassins" excuse. Training alone doesn't activate a dormant gene. Desmond only learned to control his so quickly because he had an unusually high concentration of TWCB DNA.

No mention. Doesn't mean he can't have it - the only scene where it's brought up is with Edward and James Kidd, on their own. Ed never mentions his own EV afterwards...

Assassin_M
05-11-2014, 01:11 AM
Ezio being a complete happy go lucky guy with strangers and everyone else when he shouldn't be because he was betrayed by a close family friend...

"Hey, Ezio I know your name, don't ask how, wanna kill an uber rich merchant?"
"Yeah, sure, i'm under your command"

"Hey, Ezio I have your mother and sister up stairs and you have not seen them at all, wanna train?"
"F U, LADY, I KILL UBERTO EBFEIBFKBFKJBEF"
"teach you to survive?"
"yeah, whatever"
(this particular scene shows how rude Ezio is too...the lady shelters his mother and sister and he has the nerve to get mad at her. what a jerk)

"Hey, Ezio, I know how you can get a golden mask" "oops, they took it" "oops it doesn't matter if you have the mask, you'll be detected anyway" "shoot with the sound of the fireworks" "oops, you're still detected"
"you're awesome, sister"

Basically, the entirety of AC II is a cluster-duck of contrived, irrational and cringy plot points with holes everywhere...

-Why didn't Uberto invite Ezio inside WITHOUT using a yes or no invitation? "here, let me show you something inside" the way he dodges being lynched is so stupid.
-Why is Ezio warm and friendly towards any and all strangers he meets when that line of character progression is COMPLETELY irrational given the context of his story.
-Why sequence 8?? why the WHOLE carnival game thing? Ezio could have just waited for someone to win and then pickpocket them LIKE HE DID IN THE END.
-Why does Ezio spare Rodrigo? if he HAS indeed evolved and he's over revenge, then his duty as an assassin should have taken priority and he should have killed Rodrigo then and there. he was just as much of a threat (as proven by the Villa attack) and if Ezio did NOT grow out of revenge (which he confirmed it himself, he was not beyond revenge) then why is he magically beyond it 10 minutes later?

and everything in the OP

jeffies04
05-11-2014, 01:56 AM
Hey everyone,

Since many of us have noticed some plot holes in the AC universe or let’s say story inconsistencies or matters that were not clarified or proved otherwise, so far, use this thread to list the plot holes you know and feel free to discuss the ones written by others if you have other explanations to them.

Here’s one that came to my mind: If Minerva knew that the Assassins and Templars have wasted centuries and “so they have lost their chance”, as she said. Then why bother telling Desmond? it’s not like she met Desmond centuries ago. She only communicated to him through Ezio.

Juno planned it this way. Juno, as you could see from her interaction with other parties such as Connors tribe, etc, had her hands in many pies. She manipulated all of these events in order to put Desmond in that very last-chance-decision situation. Minerva was there to try and change that last change decision.

Remember, the First Civ's ability to "see the future" is only a glimpse into probability of possible outcomes. It was still possible for a variable to be changed and alter the outcome. That's why Minerva didn't give up right away.



Here’s another:
If Minerva has a device “The Eye” that can tell possibilities, why didn’t she see it coming that telling Desmond will only lead to him freeing Juno, which is what she did not want? if she could see the possibilities then why didn’t she avoid contacting the one who is gonna do exactly the opposite of what she asked? I think this is a plot hole unless this whole Desmond journey is nothing but a vision of Minerva, a possibility that she’s viewing, not what really happened.

It's not so much of a plot hole as it is a catch-22. Getting Desmond to the Temple IN TIME she hoped would allow them to finish the other methods of salvation that they had been working on, particularly the ones that they automated the creation of. They would have been finished by that time and could be used by Des and team. She knew he could make the choice to free her, which was why she was there to try and stop him when she realized they were getting to the Temple too late.



And another: if Minerva can see the possibilities, why couldn’t she stop Juno from uploading herself into the device and instead, found a way to destroy her, permanently? and why didn’t they use the device to stop the apocalypse before Juno could link herself to it so that using it will free her? and why didn’t they use the device and set Juno free and then killed her with their own knowledge and weapons and instead, left her to whether someone else in the future will decide to free her or not and put the burden of killing her on humans who don’t know her nor they’re as strong as she is, like Minerva and Tinea are?

This might be one... but if I remember correctly they did find out about Juno's scheming, which is why they imprisoned her in the Temple and left. Remember, they can see possible outcomes, not a perfect vision of the future.

I-Like-Pie45
05-11-2014, 04:39 AM
Ezio

shots have been fired

Aphex_Tim
05-11-2014, 07:51 AM
Regarding Eagle Vision, I really don't think it works literally as an instant judging system to determine whether anyone is a good or bad person. It's more like having a keen eye to assess the situation. For example, the Assassin has a target somewhere inside some courtyard. Using EV, he can easily pick out the guards in the crowd who could pose a threat to him. Avoiding the guards, climbing up the building and looking down into the courtyard, he uses EV to spot his target somewhere among the guards. The target probably looks like a higher authority and acts as such so EV reveals him to be the target.
In the cases of Lucy, Al-Mualim etc., those were people the main character fully trusted so it would be highly unlikely that they would pose a threat. In Sequence 2 of AC4, the Assassins appear red in EV because they are attacking you and your "allies", not because they are bad people. The world turning blue and people turning red or gold while using EV is more just game mechanic than an actual visual representation.

RinoTheBouncer
05-11-2014, 09:30 AM
Blame yearly releases. Had AC stayed a trilogy, I'm sure we'd have had mostly the same crew working on all three games over several years. But you can't expect the same writers to keep writing for the same franchise year after year after year. They'd never have a day off, for one thing, and writing six games in a row on such a tight schedule would drive anyone to a burnout.

I agree. Yearly releases have exhausted the franchise and didn’t give much chance for creativity and no matter what they say regarding having multiple teams working years in advance on the next annual sequel, I’ll still think that the game needs more time. First, designing a game years before it’s prequel doesn’t give much space for fan feedback to have any effects in the near future, second, using different teams lead to the existence of many plot holes in the story. When a different time works on Modern Day from that of Historical or different teams making two different AC games that are usually connected by the plot, one way or another, it will definitely lead to inconsistencies and holes.


Juno planned it this way. Juno, as you could see from her interaction with other parties such as Connors tribe, etc, had her hands in many pies. She manipulated all of these events in order to put Desmond in that very last-chance-decision situation. Minerva was there to try and change that last change decision.

Remember, the First Civ's ability to "see the future" is only a glimpse into probability of possible outcomes. It was still possible for a variable to be changed and alter the outcome. That's why Minerva didn't give up right away.



It's not so much of a plot hole as it is a catch-22. Getting Desmond to the Temple IN TIME she hoped would allow them to finish the other methods of salvation that they had been working on, particularly the ones that they automated the creation of. They would have been finished by that time and could be used by Des and team. She knew he could make the choice to free her, which was why she was there to try and stop him when she realized they were getting to the Temple too late.



This might be one... but if I remember correctly they did find out about Juno's scheming, which is why they imprisoned her in the Temple and left. Remember, they can see possible outcomes, not a perfect vision of the future.

I agree but the question is why didn’t they kill her? why did they imprison her in the same place they expect a future descendant to go to, let alone leading him there? is she immortal? do they have something against killing their own kind for treason? I don’t know, but it feels like they’ve been leading us to something highly risky.

I still don’t understand why Juno was linked to the device that saves the world and why they couldn’t use it before she or they imprisoned her in. What you say can be right but I wish they gave us more to actually know that the story is consistent. It didn’t feel like an open-ended story thing, but more like a superficial connectivity that if you dig into, you’ll find the inconsistency in it.


Regarding Eagle Vision, I really don't think it works literally as an instant judging system to determine whether anyone is a good or bad person. It's more like having a keen eye to assess the situation. For example, the Assassin has a target somewhere inside some courtyard. Using EV, he can easily pick out the guards in the crowd who could pose a threat to him. Avoiding the guards, climbing up the building and looking down into the courtyard, he uses EV to spot his target somewhere among the guards. The target probably looks like a higher authority and acts as such so EV reveals him to be the target.
In the cases of Lucy, Al-Mualim etc., those were people the main character fully trusted so it would be highly unlikely that they would pose a threat. In Sequence 2 of AC4, the Assassins appear red in EV because they are attacking you and your "allies", not because they are bad people. The world turning blue and people turning red or gold while using EV is more just game mechanic than an actual visual representation.

I agree that these colors are a game mechanic and that EV is more of a situation assessment method but there were so many moments when we just gone into a crowd in a story-related mission and knew right away who the target is. Lucy and Al-Mualim were a trusted people, yes but I always thought it’s weird that for a person who believes that nothing is true and everything is permitted, he’s expected to ask questions, wonder and seek truth and not rely on trust.

Maybe in future games they can try and make EV not as literally as it’s presented in the past games.

jayjay275
05-11-2014, 10:14 AM
Ezio being a complete happy go lucky guy with strangers and everyone else when he shouldn't be because he was betrayed by a close family friend...

"Hey, Ezio I know your name, don't ask how, wanna kill an uber rich merchant?"
"Yeah, sure, i'm under your command"

"Hey, Ezio I have your mother and sister up stairs and you have not seen them at all, wanna train?"
"F U, LADY, I KILL UBERTO EBFEIBFKBFKJBEF"
"teach you to survive?"
"yeah, whatever"
(this particular scene shows how rude Ezio is too...the lady shelters his mother and sister and he has the nerve to get mad at her. what a jerk)

"Hey, Ezio, I know how you can get a golden mask" "oops, they took it" "oops it doesn't matter if you have the mask, you'll be detected anyway" "shoot with the sound of the fireworks" "oops, you're still detected"
"you're awesome, sister"

Basically, the entirety of AC II is a cluster-duck of contrived, irrational and cringy plot points with holes everywhere...

-Why didn't Uberto invite Ezio inside WITHOUT using a yes or no invitation? "here, let me show you something inside" the way he dodges being lynched is so stupid.
-Why is Ezio warm and friendly towards any and all strangers he meets when that line of character progression is COMPLETELY irrational given the context of his story.
-Why sequence 8?? why the WHOLE carnival game thing? Ezio could have just waited for someone to win and then pickpocket them LIKE HE DID IN THE END.
-Why does Ezio spare Rodrigo? if he HAS indeed evolved and he's over revenge, then his duty as an assassin should have taken priority and he should have killed Rodrigo then and there. he was just as much of a threat (as proven by the Villa attack) and if Ezio did NOT grow out of revenge (which he confirmed it himself, he was not beyond revenge) then why is he magically beyond it 10 minutes later?

and everything in the OP

Forgive me if I am wrong, but didn't Rodrigo mention to Cesare that it wasn't his idea to attack Monteriggioni but that it was Cesare's idea?

Hans684
05-11-2014, 10:31 AM
Forgive me if I am wrong, but didn't Rodrigo mention to Cesare that it wasn't his idea to attack Monteriggioni but that it was Cesare's idea?

Cesare: I know you're there, Ezio. The Pope told me about you and your little group of Assassins... and this.

Cesare held up an Apple of Eden, before signalling over to Octavian.

Cesare: Give me the gun his friend fashioned for us. We've had too much bloodshed. I think a cleansing is in order. So, consider this an invitation, from my family... to yours.

Rodrigo told Cesare, so if he was killed he wouldn't be able to tell and the attack would most likely not happen. If it still happend it would be for another reason, Cesare becoming pope himself since he payed for their appointment and trying to unite Italia by using the Vatican.

jayjay275
05-11-2014, 10:34 AM
Cesare: I know you're there, Ezio. The Pope told me about you and your little group of Assassins... and this.

Cesare held up an Apple of Eden, before signalling over to Octavian.

Cesare: Give me the gun his friend fashioned for us. We've had too much bloodshed. I think a cleansing is in order. So, consider this an invitation, from my family... to yours.

Rodrigo told Cesare, so if he was killed he wouldn't be able to tell and the attack would most likely not happen. If it still happend it would be for another reason, Cesare becoming pope himself since he payed for their appointment and trying to unite Italia by using the Vatican.


Of course, but Cesare did lead the attack. :P

Hans684
05-11-2014, 12:41 PM
Of course, but Cesare did lead the attack. :P

Because it was his idea to attack and he was told by Rodrigo.

Assassin_M
05-11-2014, 02:32 PM
Of course, but Cesare did lead the attack. :P
What I meant to say is, Cesare would have nothing without Rodrigo. Ezio, the moron, kept convincing everyone and himself that killing Rodrigo would have accomplished nothing...oh yes it would have. the moment Rodrigo died in brotherhood was the moment Cesare's castle crumpled...he only possessed all the power because of his father. had Ezio killed Rodrigo in the vault, the Borgia would have been all but stripped of their power and Cesare would not have the army to attack the Villa.

jayjay275
05-11-2014, 02:57 PM
What I meant to say is, Cesare would have nothing without Rodrigo. Ezio, the moron, kept convincing everyone and himself that killing Rodrigo would have accomplished nothing...oh yes it would have. the moment Rodrigo died in brotherhood was the moment Cesare's castle crumpled...he only possessed all the power because of his father. had Ezio killed Rodrigo in the vault, the Borgia would have been all but stripped of their power and Cesare would not have the army to attack the Villa.

But Ezio, couldn't kill him in the vault at that time, because it isn't historically accurate. Yes, though it is silly. ;)

Assassin_M
05-11-2014, 03:05 PM
But Ezio, couldn't kill him in the vault at that time, because it isn't historically accurate. Yes, though it is silly. ;)
Oh oh I know, AC II was intended to end in 1503 originally but then Brotherhood came up and they decided to end it in 1499 but yes, it's silly.

jayjay275
05-11-2014, 03:06 PM
Oh oh I know, AC II was intended to end in 1503 originally but then Brotherhood came up and they decided to end it in 1499 but yes, it's silly.

Brotherhood nor Revelations wasn't necessary in my opinion.

Assassin_M
05-11-2014, 03:10 PM
Brotherhood nor Revelations wasn't necessary in my opinion.
Agreed...they just feel important now because it's in hindsight.
Ezio's story could have been easily finished at AC II and we could have waited 3 years for the start of Connor's to be honest.

jayjay275
05-11-2014, 03:13 PM
Agreed...they just feel important now because it's in hindsight.
Ezio's story could have been easily finished at AC II and we could have waited 3 years for the start of Connor's to be honest.

I probably would've preferred that, but that is of course easy to say now.

Assassin_M
05-11-2014, 03:14 PM
I probably would've preferred that, but that is of course easy to say now.
That too....seeing as how people are already impatient about AC U news.

jayjay275
05-11-2014, 03:21 PM
That too....seeing as how people are already impatient about AC U news.

Indeed. Next-Gen does need a blockbuster title though (in my opinion. I've yet to play inFamous) because all the other titles are ports, at least the majority.

Shahkulu101
05-11-2014, 03:22 PM
Still annoys me that they gave Ezio three games and that he'll probably be the only MC to get three games - it's not unfair, we definitely don't need to see characters entire life stories, but I'd really love to see more of Edward or Connor. I love Ezio I just wish they didn't squeeze all the $$$ they could outta the guy.

jayjay275
05-11-2014, 03:25 PM
Still annoys me that they gave Ezio three games and that he'll probably be the only MC to get three games - it's not unfair, we definitely don't need to see characters entire life stories, but I'd really love to see more of Edward or Connor. I love Ezio I just wish they didn't squeeze all the $$$ they could outta the guy.

We should definitely get more Connor, maybe not a full game, but I didn't feel satisfied with his ending. Sure, he did his purpose, but that doesn't mean he can't help out again...

Assassin_M
05-11-2014, 03:25 PM
Still annoys me that they gave Ezio three games and that he'll probably be the only MC to get three games - it's not unfair, we definitely don't need to see characters entire life stories, but I'd really love to see more of Edward or Connor. I love Ezio I just wish they didn't squeeze all the $$$ they could outta the guy.
Whenever anybody wants another Connor game, I don't blame them...I blame the ones who started it all...we most likely wont get another Connor game but Edward...perhaps. he's more popular than Connor and i'm sure they can come up with any crappy excuse even though Darby said that they had it all planned out and they never planned another Eddie game.


Indeed. Next-Gen does need a blockbuster title though (in my opinion. I've yet to play inFamous) because all the other titles are ports, at least the majority.
I played infamous and i'd say it's a pretty good start for pure next gen.

jayjay275
05-11-2014, 03:39 PM
I think Edward's story is finished. :)

Assassin_M
05-11-2014, 03:43 PM
I think Edward's story is finished. :)
That's what they said

jayjay275
05-11-2014, 03:44 PM
That's what they said

They better stick to their word then.

Assassin_M
05-11-2014, 03:58 PM
They better stick to their word then.
We hope:rolleyes:

Ureh
05-11-2014, 04:35 PM
I'm not super duper familiar with the ac2 armor system and when each set piece are made available to us.... so I could be wrong. But it seems Ezio was wearing the metal armor too early (not the messalagias set). I think this is when he returns to Florence after killing all the Pazzi conspirators, he then visits Cristina while wearing the metal armor. But metal armor is not available till after he reaches Forli or Venice (which supposedly takes place after he meets Cristina right?).

RinoTheBouncer
05-11-2014, 05:15 PM
“They will enslave your kind” - Minerva.

Who the hell is they? we’re just about to free Juno. Are there others? First Civ. Members? she will ally with the Templars and use them to her own goals? The Erudite God? Consus? it hasn’t been explained so it’s a plot hole until it is.

Assassin_M
05-11-2014, 05:25 PM
“They will enslave your kind” - Minerva.

Who the hell is they? we’re just about to free Juno. Are there others? First Civ. Members? she will ally with the Templars and use them to her own goals? The Erudite God? Consus? it hasn’t been explained so it’s a plot hole until it is.
We already know that there's her husband, the testament of the first will and there're more TWCB, it doesn't matter WHO exactly but we already knew that there's more and we also know that the Templrs resent TWCB so there's no reason to speculate that they'd ally with her. not really a plot hole imo and generally, i'd define plot hole as a plot element that does not make sense, not unexplained.

RinoTheBouncer
05-11-2014, 05:35 PM
We already know that there's her husband, the testament of the first will and there're more TWCB, it doesn't matter WHO exactly but we already knew that there's more and we also know that the Templrs resent TWCB so there's no reason to speculate that they'd ally with her. not really a plot hole imo and generally, i'd define plot hole as a plot element that does not make sense, not unexplained.

But is her husband really that powerful or relevant? as far as I could judge from her personality, he’s like this tool that she uses to be free, and after that, she might just dispose of him so as not to share the throne. Do we really know about more TWCB? or are we just speculating based on the Consus thing? I’m not sure... the developers are just so annoying that they’re only offering questions with each new game and the loose ends are increasing.

Assassin_M
05-11-2014, 05:51 PM
But is her husband really that powerful or relevant? as far as I could judge from her personality, he’s like this tool that she uses to be free, and after that, she might just dispose of him so as not to share the throne. Do we really know about more TWCB? or are we just speculating based on the Consus thing? I’m not sure... the developers are just so annoying that they’re only offering questions with each new game and the loose ends are increasing.
Well, i think that being practically immortal is being pretty strong and relevant...imagine him reincarnating as the president of Russia or the US. I'd say he's pretty relevant..

we're just speculating on the consus thing:p

Hans684
05-11-2014, 09:11 PM
But is her husband really that powerful or relevant? as far as I could judge from her personality, he’s like this tool that she uses to be free, and after that, she might just dispose of him so as not to share the throne. Do we really know about more TWCB? or are we just speculating based on the Consus thing? I’m not sure... the developers are just so annoying that they’re only offering questions with each new game and the loose ends are increasing.

He was introduced in AC3, built upon in AC4BF and you say they have thrown it away when they actually just started it. It's fine to judge plot holes an all the typical package but for something that just came out and is still growing is crazy(sorry). Your campaign is starting to make you judge to fast and builds a lot of personal hatred agains Ubisoft "becouse they don't have guts to do anything". Compare this thing with the unknown thing Ezio gave to Shao Jun, now that is an old plot point. Not this thing they just started.

He is powerful and relevant, they just started it. Not to mention Black Bart(AC4BF) who is an major character, he got Edward to the Observatory where he betrayed him and sent him to prison. Soon after Edward escaped and in the proses Kidd/Read died, something that cused him to joining the Assassins after being drunk and lost Adčwale. So he joins the Assassins, hunting any remaining Templars and Black Bart. After that he goes back to England where he get a son, gets killed. Haytham joins the Templars, after getting the key he goes to America hunting for the the Precuser Storehouse(Grand Temple). While doing that he meets a native America(Zio), they fall in love, they break up. Zio gets a son. Connor gets his village burned by Washington and promises to hunt down Lee. In he's teens he enters the Nexus where he speaks to Juno that tells him to join the Assassins. So he travels to Achilles where he gets trained, sees his father start the Boston Massacre. A while after he becomes an Assassin, then hunts down the Templars. After have gotten the key and killed Lee, he goes to his abandoned village where he meets Juno for the last time. He gets told to hide it "where non might find it". Desmond locates the key(and gets to speak to Juno in the Grand Temple where she tells that Aita valenterd for one of their projects), Desmond goes to get the key, after that he returns to the Grand Temple where he chooses to save Earth(and over 7 billion people) and releases Juno in the proses. The next year John from IT gets one random research analyst to do his jobs that the assassins wanted him to do, not knowing of the researcher. When John got the researcher in the bunker he planed that Juno should take this persons body but she was to weak. So his plan to get Juno a body failed, so he then tries to do something with the reseaher but Absergo guards killed him before he got to do what ever his second plan was. John is also part of The Instrument of The First Vill, their aim is to get TWCB back in control and Juno who is one of them is planing to do exactly that.

RinoTheBouncer
05-12-2014, 09:25 AM
Well, i think that being practically immortal is being pretty strong and relevant...imagine him reincarnating as the president of Russia or the US. I'd say he's pretty relevant..

we're just speculating on the consus thing:p

I understand, but I don’t know, from his looks and the way he worships her, he gave me the feeling that the first thing she’d do after being released is killing him :P
I’m so interested in the Consus thing. It’s been going on forever, same for Erudito. I’d love to put a face to these and I can’t help but think the Erudite God is linked to Erudito.


He was introduced in AC3, built upon in AC4BF and you say they have thrown it away when they actually just started it. It's fine to judge plot holes an all the typical package but for something that just came out and is still growing is crazy(sorry). Your campaign is starting to make you judge to fast and builds a lot of personal hatred agains Ubisoft "becouse they don't have guts to do anything". Compare this thing with the unknown thing Ezio gave to Shao Jun, now that is an old plot point. Not this thing they just started.

He is powerful and relevant, they just started it. Not to mention Black Bart(AC4BF) who is an major character, he got Edward to the Observatory where he betrayed him and sent him to prison. Soon after Edward escaped and in the proses Kidd/Read died, something that cused him to joining the Assassins after being drunk and lost Adčwale. So he joins the Assassins, hunting any remaining Templars and Black Bart. After that he goes back to England where he get a son, gets killed. Haytham joins the Templars, after getting the key he goes to America hunting for the the Precuser Storehouse(Grand Temple). While doing that he meets a native America(Zio), they fall in love, they break up. Zio gets a son. Connor gets his village burned by Washington and promises to hunt down Lee. In he's teens he enters the Nexus where he speaks to Juno that tells him to join the Assassins. So he travels to Achilles where he gets trained, sees his father start the Boston Massacre. A while after he becomes an Assassin, then hunts down the Templars. After have gotten the key and killed Lee, he goes to his abandoned village where he meets Juno for the last time. He gets told to hide it "where non might find it". Desmond locates the key(and gets to speak to Juno in the Grand Temple where she tells that Aita valenterd for one of their projects), Desmond goes to get the key, after that he returns to the Grand Temple where he chooses to save Earth(and over 7 billion people) and releases Juno in the proses. The next year John from IT gets one random research analyst to do his jobs that the assassins wanted him to do, not knowing of the researcher. When John got the researcher in the bunker he planed that Juno should take this persons body but she was to weak. So his plan to get Juno a body failed, so he then tries to do something with the reseaher but Absergo guards killed him before he got to do what ever his second plan was. John is also part of The Instrument of The First Vill, their aim is to get TWCB back in control and Juno who is one of them is planing to do exactly that.

I understand what you’re saying, my friend but in ACIII he wasn’t introduced like Juno was introduced in AC:B, for example. The latter gave the impression that she’s an important character and she became something big and important, later, like Minerva in ACII. But Aita in ACIII was more of a reference like she mentioned her father being killed by the humans and in ACIV, it felt like he came out of nowhere. I know he’s powerful and technically immortal, but I wonder if he has what it takes to rule the world or if Juno herself would allow anyone by to rule by her side.

She’s strong, she’s ruthless. I can imagine her as something like Jacqueline Natla from Tomb Raider. She could take the body of some business woman/power broker, hell even recreate herself in her original looks but pretends to be one and she takes control through corporations and maybe even take control of Abstergo and uses it towards her own ends.

But as for Aita, I feel like he’s more of a method of resurrection than a lover. I don’t know, maybe that’s just me but the statement in ACIII “they will enslave your kind” felt a bit too vague. I hope we actually get to see Juno controlling the world rather than just being erased from servers. I want some epic moment.

One thing we once discussed, you and I, was the possibility of the First Civ. mastering space flight which could apply here. Maybe she’ll inform them that it’s time to return or perhaps others are preserved as softwares/A.I.s like her and she’ll free them... I hope we get to see as much.

Locopells
05-12-2014, 10:28 AM
I'm not super duper familiar with the ac2 armour system and when each set piece are made available to us.... so I could be wrong. But it seems Ezio was wearing the metal armour too early (not the messalagias set). I think this is when he returns to Florence after killing all the Pazzi conspirators, he then visits Cristina while wearing the metal armour. But metal armour is not available till after he reaches Forli or Venice (which supposedly takes place after he meets Cristina right?).

I think you're right, I spotted that one myself.

LUR21
05-12-2014, 10:57 AM
Regarding those who talked about Desmond’s glowing arm. Maybe it did appear on Clay’s arms when they were in the Animus but why would it appear on Desmond in reality? in the Animus, they’re all simulations, programs, softwares, they’re not flesh and blood so the appearance of such effects is entirely possible. Why would it happen in real life, though?



I completely agree with you points. I wanna add another regarding Lucy, why didn’t she appear with a red glow when Desmond used his eagle vision? isn’t the EV supposed to foresee whether someone’s good or bad? it made it feel like it’s just another Animus way of highlighting a target.

The way i see the Lucy thing is just from this point of view. If they showed Lucy as red in eagle vision they might as well have put a big spoiler alert above her head. So basically they did not show her in red to keep the Lucy revelation of being a Templar until the right time. Instead of just spoiling it at the start.

RinoTheBouncer
05-12-2014, 11:16 AM
The way i see the Lucy thing is just from this point of view. If they showed Lucy as red in eagle vision they might as well have put a big spoiler alert above her head. So basically they did not show her in red to keep the Lucy revelation of being a Templar until the right time. Instead of just spoiling it at the start.

Of course it would be such a big spoiler to a planned future twist, but the way it was executed did not make sense cause he’s supposed to know or feel the intentions from the ability. Maybe if they made the modern day eagle vision is only triggered in certain circumstances such as when extremely urged to know, or the ability just spikes at certain moments and fades in others, in an unpredictable way so that the moments where Lucy’s there are avoided, but that would require reworking the flow of the game events because there were some moments in AC2 and AC:B where we had to use Eagle Vision when Lucy’s around.

They could’ve also made it a bit more vague, the sensation, I mean. Like, it’s not a clear knowledge of who’s good and who’s bad, but more like a sensation driven by situation. Like it only happens when you wanna hunt someone and your “guts” will give you the sensation or the hunch that this is the bad guy.

ze_topazio
05-12-2014, 11:22 AM
Maybe the eagle vision is influenced subconsciously by the user emotions, when the user is alert and suspects everybody he can identify the people hostile to him, but in the case of Lucy, Desmond was so convinced she was a friend that he couldn't possibly perceive her as an enemy.

LUR21
05-12-2014, 11:25 AM
Of course it would be such a big spoiler to a planned future twist, but the way it was executed did not make sense cause he’s supposed to know or feel the intentions from the ability. Maybe if they made the modern day eagle vision is only triggered in certain circumstances such as when extremely urged to know, or the ability just spikes at certain moments and fades in others, in an unpredictable way so that the moments where Lucy’s there are avoided, but that would require reworking the flow of the game events because there were some moments in AC2 and AC:B where we had to use Eagle Vision when Lucy’s around.

They could’ve also made it a bit more vague, the sensation, I mean. Like, it’s not a clear knowledge of who’s good and who’s bad, but more like a sensation driven by situation. Like it only happens when you wanna hunt someone and your “guts” will give you the sensation or the hunch that this is the bad guy.

yeah I do agree completely, it was handled poorly. I just think they work the eagle vision from 2 ways. First being the law of how eagle vision works and the second just to keep the intergerity of them saying we will tell you when it becomes apparent not before hand.

Locopells
05-12-2014, 11:29 AM
Maybe the eagle vision is influenced subconsciously by the user emotions, when the user is alert and suspects everybody he can identify the people hostile to him, but in the case of Lucy, Desmond was so convinced she was a friend that he couldn't possibly perceive her as an enemy.

That's more or less what I've said - this has been discussed before and it was concluded that if there were no actual clues, however little, then EV won't pick up on anything.

Hans684
05-12-2014, 04:33 PM
I understand what you’re saying, my friend but in ACIII he wasn’t introduced like Juno was introduced in AC:B, for example. The latter gave the impression that she’s an important character and she became something big and important, later, like Minerva in ACII. But Aita in ACIII was more of a reference like she mentioned her father being killed by the humans and in ACIV, it felt like he came out of nowhere. I know he’s powerful and technically immortal, but I wonder if he has what it takes to rule the world or if Juno herself would allow anyone by to rule by her side.

Technically he was, he was gives some back story but it was narrated by Juno. She introduced him there and then with holograms and all other First Civ. stuff from the Grand Temple. Juno on the other hand was introduced in ACB but she was a surprise, we didn't see it coming. Same with Minerva, both came out of nowhere. It was meant to be a WFT moment. Aita compared to those two is an minor character, he didn't need the same shocking aprotch. It would just end up as a show up, "Look here is Juno's husband...the end". Black Bart was reveled before John so he didn't come out of nowhere, sure it might look like it but there is a difference between what we see to be true and what we know to be true. Juno is going to be The Ruler, that's obvious but since Aita(one of many) his her husband(s), one of them might rule with her, she clearly loves him by what's shown in AC3.


She’s strong, she’s ruthless. I can imagine her as something like Jacqueline Natla from Tomb Raider. She could take the body of some business woman/power broker, hell even recreate herself in her original looks but pretends to be one and she takes control through corporations and maybe even take control of Abstergo and uses it towards her own ends.

Don' play Tomb Rider, tried but so far they aren't my kind of explorer game, Uncharted > Tomb Rider. But I agree that she's strong and ruthless, like a female Cesare. That's actually a great idea but that powerful business women she should IMO take the body of is Laetitia England. She's strong, powerful and Templar(part of their inner circle). http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Laetitia_England
Fits Juno, doesn't it? It would be two birds with one stone.


But as for Aita, I feel like he’s more of a method of resurrection than a lover. I don’t know, maybe that’s just me but the statement in ACIII “they will enslave your kind” felt a bit too vague. I hope we actually get to see Juno controlling the world rather than just being erased from servers. I want some epic moment.

Explained some above, we don't exactly know who those else is. There is Juno, Aita and The Instrument Of The First will. We don't know anyone else "they" could be. It's to early to actually have a proper clue, unless everyone mentioned is the only "they". If she ends up controlling, then I don't want the stereotype ala Tyranny Of King Washington. I want to kill Juno but if we are going to kill her in person I want to play as William Miles. He deserve it.


One thing we once discussed, you and I, was the possibility of the First Civ. mastering space flight which could apply here. Maybe she’ll inform them that it’s time to return or perhaps others are preserved as softwares/A.I.s like her and she’ll free them... I hope we get to see as much.

That's something we can discuss in the other thread, no need to repeat everything all over again. See you there ;)