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Sushiglutton
05-09-2014, 03:37 PM
What do you think is the greatest challenge for AC:U?

I'm thinking it is to reinvent city gameplay. We still don't know of any more locations than Paris, but that's enough to know AC:U will focus more on cities than the last two entries. Ubi made some fairly important addittions in AC2-B (like tailing, eavesdropping, factions, notoriety system, more hidespots, recruits, Borgia towers, shops, fast travel etc), but after that city gameplay has been fairly stale. Problem is that most of those activities/systems are not that great and especially doing them on a yearly basis is kind of a chore.

One of the reasons AC4 has been so celebrated imo is because it for the most part ignored city gameplay.


So the massive challenge AC:U has is to find new and exciting city activities, a functional economy and some sort of new reputation/notoriety-like system. And they need to make them so good that they beat naval and plantation stealth. Seems very tough to me!


(A more interactive and fun parkour/combat system would be a great start I guess.)

Wolfmeister1010
05-09-2014, 03:44 PM
Indeed. Combat and city gameplay for sure. They are going in the right direction with what seems to be a huge number of seamless indoor locations, and I don't know about you, but that is pretty damn exciting to me as it is!

I always say, and I will say it again, that the game would literally become 10X better with good random encounters a la RDR. Just imagine RDR without the random encounters.

Case and point.

Chase a robber who stole someone's fruit like in AC3 when first arriving in Boston. Stop someone who is robbing an indoor location. If you are notorious, get challenged to a pistol duel. Help a prostitute being attacked by drunk man. Interfere in brawls.

Or even non gameplay random encounters to add to the damned atmosphere!! Witness a hanging or a guillotine execution. Watch as a woman dies of a disease in her husband's arms in the street. Witness a set of guards escorting political prisoners. For some reason past games have a philosophy that the assassin has to get involved in EVERYTHING. Sometimes it is best to not interfere.

Kirokill
05-09-2014, 03:47 PM
I always say, and I will say it again, that the game would literally become 10X better with good random encounters a la RDR. Just imagine RDR without the random encounters.

That's a fact. For open world games.

I think there would complicated combat?

jayjay275
05-09-2014, 03:49 PM
I'd say:

A bag full of side content that is engaging and keeps you playing for a VERY long while.
A proper bounty/guard system that makes the guards harder to fight and harder to escape.

Sushiglutton
05-09-2014, 03:58 PM
Indeed. Combat and city gameplay for sure. They are going in the right direction with what seems to be a huge number of seamless indoor locations, and I don't know about you, but that is pretty damn exciting to me as it is!

That's a great point. If this rumours turns out to be true it would be a massive and very exciting addition!



I always say, and I will say it again, that the game would literally become 10X better with good random encounters a la RDR. Just imagine RDR without the random encounters.

Case and point.

Chase a robber who stole someone's fruit like in AC3 when first arriving in Boston. Stop someone who is robbing an indoor location. If you are notorious, get challenged to a pistol duel. Help a prostitute being attacked by drunk man. Interfere in brawls.

Or even non gameplay random encounters to add to the damned atmosphere!! Witness a hanging or a guillotine execution. Watch as a woman dies of a disease in her husband's arms in the street. Witness a set of guards escorting political prisoners. For some reason past games have a philosophy that the assassin has to get involved in EVERYTHING. Sometimes it is best to not interfere.

I kind of feel random events are somewhat overrated. They add spice, but they are typically too brief to be main courses (my stomach wrote this line). I mean let's take chasing after a thief. It's not that bloody fun tbh. You run for a bit, do a tackle and it's over. Or let's say help a woman being attacked: A short fist fight and it's over. Compare that to say taking out and boarding a man of war.

(Hope M won't read this lol)

jayjay275
05-09-2014, 04:03 PM
That's a great point. If this rumours turns out to be true it would be a massive and very exciting addition!




I kind of feel random events are somewhat overrated. They add spice, but they are typically too brief to be main courses (my stomach wrote this line). I mean let's take chasing after a thief. It's not that bloody fun tbh. You run for a bit, do a tackle and it's over. Or let's say help a woman being attacked: A short fist fight and it's over. Compare that to say taking out and boarding a man of war.



Both of you are spot on.

Aphex_Tim
05-09-2014, 04:20 PM
I always say, and I will say it again, that the game would literally become 10X better with good random encounters a la RDR. Just imagine RDR without the random encounters.


In my opinion these RDR random encounters got real old real fast. It was fun the first couple of times but ultimately I always just ended up ignoring them.

Dev_Anj
05-09-2014, 04:53 PM
The biggest problem I have with the urban areas in Assassin's Creed is that they simply don't have much actual content or anything to interesting to do beyond some side missions and the main missions.

For instance, let's see what you can do in Damascus in Assassin's Creed 1. Once you enter the city, you can freerun, and you are amazed after a while. But after some exploration, you find that the main quest basically involves climbing towers, getting into poorly designed mini games, and the actual assassination. Besides that, you can hide in haystacks, save citizens, and collect flags. Not much that's engaging now, is there?

Florence in Assassin's Creed 2 has more content at a first glance. But upon a closer look, most of the content is an extension of the "Assassin flag" collectibles. Treasure chests, feathers, etc. The remaining collectibles aren't too engaging either, the pages just have you killing four guards or so, or using prostitute groups to lure them out. The side assassinations for the most part are too easy. So again, most of the content is just freerunning about.

In Brotherhood, they expanded on it again at a surface level. But again, most of it was just an extension of the side content in AC 2. Borgia towers were interesting, but in the end were just side assassinations with an extra step that often couldn't be completed stealthily, Templar kills which were more side assassinations, more flags and feathers to contribute to the "Assassin flag" collectible list. I didn't play through all the Thief, Courtesan and Mercenary missions, but I don't expect them to be well designed.

In Revelations, you had the content of Brotherhood, except rolled down. The one thing that was improved on was the Borgia Towers, now known as Templar Dens. Now, you could complete them stealthily, you had useful tools to quickly deal with enemies, and the enemies had better defenses too. Besides that, there were only two random encounters, and neither was engaging( you either punched a person, or carried crates for a merchant). I played through quite a few of the Master Assassin missions, and honestly they felt too simplistic. It was interesting that there were different types of missions to recruit assassins, besides killing guards, but even those were too simple.

I haven't played either AC 3 or 4, but judging from reviews, and what I've seen of them, AC 3 continued the problem of non engaging urban content, while AC 4 had some interesting content and some good stealth missions, but still had non engaging urban content.

So, I think the best way to make engaging urban content is to have good mission design, and to try and make good side missions, while also making them dynamic. Really, this is one of the reasons I feel that choosing the setting of an AC game is overrated, yes you can have good architecture in some settings, but there's no point if the missions in the cities themselves are not engaging.

Ureh
05-09-2014, 04:58 PM
Reintroducing the fear of heights to players maybe? When I was playing AC2 for the first time (and also a bit of AC1), the edifices and tombs scared me cause I wasn't always sure if I could make the jumps. And if I didn't make the jump, I knew I would go splat on the ground. At first, I'm like.... 'Daaaaang, can Altair/Ezio even make that jump? that looks impossible. Ok ok, here goes nothing... AAAhhhhh!!!' Sometimes they even change the camera angel mid-jump to give you a scare. Now I'm like... 'Yeah don't worry the auto-jump system will prevent me from falling or making most mistakes.' Did any of you have this feeling?

I remember one of the Romulus lairs had this camera zoomy effect that tricked me into thinking that I misjudged the distance of the giant cross (I think it was in that pyramid-shaped tomb).

Locopells
05-09-2014, 05:06 PM
Wolves Among the Dead

In answer to the OP, to return to the old and remind us why we loved it and moaned when it was gone, yet keep it fresh and new for this year's cycle.

oliacr
05-09-2014, 06:34 PM
City gameplay is the top on my list.

pacmanate
05-09-2014, 06:44 PM
Greatest challenge, have as much side content as Black Flag and having it be worthwhile, good rewards.

Secondly I would say story, AC games lack consistency with story writing IMO.

Megas_Doux
05-09-2014, 06:55 PM
Greatest challenge, have as much side content as Black Flag and having it be worthwhile, good rewards.

.

This!!!!!!


I also agree with the op too, the city gameplay needs a revamp.

ze_topazio
05-09-2014, 07:48 PM
Trying to convince me of the necessity of being sneaky and stealthy when I'm controlling a one-man army.

Portraying the French Revolution well without falling in to the mistake of making the main character be present and be the reason why every single important event happened and succeeded/failed.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-09-2014, 08:13 PM
No challenges at all
I have COMPLETE faith in unity and here's why....
Ubisoft is split into multiple teams.. they dont necessarily have a dedicated team for AC like activision does for call of duty... (I mean they DO , but it isn't strict)
Talent goes in and out like tides
This kind of works for and against the series at the same time...the good is that ideas kind of blend..this is also the bad...for example... AC4... they had the far cry team on it...which in my opinion gave ac a flavor i didnt really appreciate as much as i would've had this not been an ac game....
I'm not sure what team worked on AC IV..but if i recall correctly.. it was an AC2 and Far Cry 3 love child.....
From what we've heard... I believe unity will be an AC1 and AC3 love child.. AC3 being the far cry with only slight influences...
I'm very excited to see what the AC1 minds do with lessons learned and technological advancements.
I mean the announcement trailer alone SCREAMS AC1 and I'm so excited... ALMOST as excited as i was for ac3.. but far surpass my ac iv excitement

GunnerGalactico
05-09-2014, 08:52 PM
Reintroducing the fear of heights to players maybe? When I was playing AC2 for the first time (and also a bit of AC1), the edifices and tombs scared me cause I wasn't always sure if I could make the jumps. And if I didn't make the jump, I knew I would go splat on the ground. At first, I'm like.... 'Daaaaang, can Altair/Ezio even make that jump? that looks impossible. Ok ok, here goes nothing... AAAhhhhh!!!' Sometimes they even change the camera angel mid-jump to give you a scare. Now I'm like... 'Yeah don't worry the auto-jump system will prevent me from falling or making most mistakes.' Did any of you have this feeling?

I remember one of the Romulus lairs had this camera zoomy effect that tricked me into thinking that I misjudged the distance of the giant cross (I think it was in that pyramid-shaped tomb).

I felt the exact same way. In AC1 and 2, after climbing a very tall building... I'm like " it's a long way down" and if the distance is too far to jump, "can I make it ?". From AC3 onwards, climbing buildings was a walk in the park IMO... but climbing view point trees in the Frontier did give me the occasional scare.



I believe unity will be an AC1 and AC3 love child.. AC3 being the far cry with only slight influences...
I'm very excited to see what the AC1 minds do with lessons learned and technological advancements.
I mean the announcement trailer alone SCREAMS AC1 and I'm so excited... ALMOST as excited as i was for ac3.. but far surpass my ac iv excitement

^^ This :)

Wolfmeister1010
05-09-2014, 08:59 PM
Go back to what AC1 was about..but keep it fresh?

Well ****..

Listen to your words. Going back to AC1 formula would mean it being just assassinations and investigations. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but don't think they can do that again and still make it fresh.

We need more open, time period based activities like pirating, hunting, crafting, drinking, and stuff to immerse ourselves in the time period, but as long as we keep doing that, people will continue to complain about it. "Pirate simulator", "American Revolution Simulation" "Italian Banker simulation".. just because it includes more than just pure assassin business.

dimbismp
05-09-2014, 09:58 PM
*improved stealth
*improved and realistic combat.No one man army anymore!
*a nice story both with realistically-written templars/assassins and some POE

SixKeys
05-10-2014, 12:10 AM
I like the idea of random encounters, but I'm not sure how they should be implemented. I still maintain that Connor would have been the perfect assassin for encounters like "chase a robber" or "help a woman who's being harassed". Connor is the kind of guy who would do something in those situations because he has a strong sense of justice. If you have a protagonist like Altaïr who's more focused on his target or Edward who only cares about himself, engaging in those encounters would feel out-of-character for them. Duel challenges are a good idea, and stuff like we had in AC4 where we had to shoot a noose to save someone from hanging or save hostages from abusive soldiers. Those sound fitting for revolutionary-era France. I also liked the ones in RDR when somebody was trying to trick you by pretending to need help, and you had to react quickly if they stole your horse or tried to rob you.

Social stealth and social interaction needs the biggest kick in the arse IMO. Parkour is still fun as long as the environments are well-designed, assassinations are still fun as long as we have enough freedom. But social stealth has been severely neglected since AC2. That's what's making city gameplay feel tired. We don't just need random encounters, we need crowds that react realistically and don't just walk past a corpse on the street like it's no big deal. Crowds that will form and disperse naturally according to the situation. E.g. at a party people are glad to mingle and come together, but in a rainstorm they will run for cover, or if someone mysteriously falls ill, they will react appropriately, leaving you exposed. We need a better notoriety system, possibly based on reputation. Intelligent crowds who will act as either help or hindrance based on your actions, like AC1 intended. We need intelligent guards who won't just ignore that shady character who ducked into a bush right under their nose. Guards whose movements look and feel natural but not frustrating - by this I mean, make them more like the bad guys in The Last of Us. Where it doesn't feel like the game is screwing you out of a well-deserved stealth kill by changing the rules all of a sudden, but it doesn't reward completely boneheaded approaches either. If a guard turns his head at the wrong moment, you WILL be spotted, they WILL investigate and may even call back-up. They won't just shrug their shoulders and return to their post. When standing still or patrolling, their movements look and feel completely natural, yet you can still tell where their line of sight falls, even without a mini-map littered with handy red dots.

roostersrule2
05-10-2014, 12:18 AM
Gameplay needs an overhaul.

The story needs to improve, it needs to have a story that's as thrilling and captivating as AC2's with the complexity of AC3's.

The game needs to be more immersive, immersion can either make or break a game tbh.

Random events are a must, just copy RDR's system, put 30 or so in and if they're done right they'll be fantastic.

LoyalACFan
05-10-2014, 12:27 AM
I kind of feel random events are somewhat overrated. They add spice, but they are typically too brief to be main courses (my stomach wrote this line). I mean let's take chasing after a thief. It's not that bloody fun tbh. You run for a bit, do a tackle and it's over. Or let's say help a woman being attacked: A short fist fight and it's over. Compare that to say taking out and boarding a man of war.

(Hope M won't read this lol)

Personally, I think brevity is the soul of a good random encounter. Sure it's not a huge addition to gameplay, but it makes you feel as though you're part of the game world, not some silent phantom ghosting through the streets doing nothing but wantonly murdering guards (silent phantom is good for assassination missions, but bad for basically every other scenario).

RDR has arguably the best random events in gaming, but even it had some good ones and some bad ones. Challenged to a duel? Attacked by roadside bandits? Begged to save someone from a murderous drunk or a pack of wolves? Awesome, I'll do those every chance I get. Asked to drive a wagon across the entirety of New Austin? Asked to chauffeur some lady to the nearest town? Asked to run around collecting flowers? Lol **** no.

SpiritOfNevaeh
05-10-2014, 12:30 AM
I like the idea of random encounters, but I'm not sure how they should be implemented. I still maintain that Connor would have been the perfect assassin for encounters like "chase a robber" or "help a woman who's being harassed". Connor is the kind of guy who would do something in those situations because he has a strong sense of justice. If you have a protagonist like Altaïr who's more focused on his target or Edward who only cares about himself, engaging in those encounters would feel out-of-character for them. Duel challenges are a good idea, and stuff like we had in AC4 where we had to shoot a noose to save someone from hanging or save hostages from abusive soldiers. Those sound fitting for revolutionary-era France. I also liked the ones in RDR when somebody was trying to trick you by pretending to need help, and you had to react quickly if they stole your horse or tried to rob you.

Social stealth and social interaction needs the biggest kick in the arse IMO. Parkour is still fun as long as the environments are well-designed, assassinations are still fun as long as we have enough freedom. But social stealth has been severely neglected since AC2. That's what's making city gameplay feel tired. We don't just need random encounters, we need crowds that react realistically and don't just walk past a corpse on the street like it's no big deal. Crowds that will form and disperse naturally according to the situation. E.g. at a party people are glad to mingle and come together, but in a rainstorm they will run for cover, or if someone mysteriously falls ill, they will react appropriately, leaving you exposed. We need a better notoriety system, possibly based on reputation. Intelligent crowds who will act as either help or hindrance based on your actions, like AC1 intended. We need intelligent guards who won't just ignore that shady character who ducked into a bush right under their nose. Guards whose movements look and feel natural but not frustrating - by this I mean, make them more like the bad guys in The Last of Us. Where it doesn't feel like the game is screwing you out of a well-deserved stealth kill by changing the rules all of a sudden, but it doesn't reward completely boneheaded approaches either. If a guard turns his head at the wrong moment, you WILL be spotted, they WILL investigate and may even call back-up. They won't just shrug their shoulders and return to their post. When standing still or patrolling, their movements look and feel completely natural, yet you can still tell where their line of sight falls, even without a mini-map littered with handy red dots.

^ This. And crowd density is a must IMO.

LoyalACFan
05-10-2014, 12:31 AM
Reintroducing the fear of heights to players maybe? When I was playing AC2 for the first time (and also a bit of AC1), the edifices and tombs scared me cause I wasn't always sure if I could make the jumps. And if I didn't make the jump, I knew I would go splat on the ground. At first, I'm like.... 'Daaaaang, can Altair/Ezio even make that jump? that looks impossible. Ok ok, here goes nothing... AAAhhhhh!!!' Sometimes they even change the camera angel mid-jump to give you a scare. Now I'm like... 'Yeah don't worry the auto-jump system will prevent me from falling or making most mistakes.' Did any of you have this feeling?

I remember one of the Romulus lairs had this camera zoomy effect that tricked me into thinking that I misjudged the distance of the giant cross (I think it was in that pyramid-shaped tomb).

I think this is mostly a symptom of the fact that the buildings in AC3 and AC4 just weren't that tall. And the few really tall ones didn't have anything near them to jump to, so there was never any danger of falling. Plus the new freerunning system has a "safe mode" as well, which I don't really care for but whatever.

LoyalACFan
05-10-2014, 12:39 AM
Just realized I never actually replied to the OP...

To be honest, I think the biggest thing they need to worry about is ASSASSINATION. AC4 had some decent ones, but I haven't been truly thrilled by pulling off a perfect assassination since the first two games. Assassination missions for Garnier de Naplouse, Sibrand, Abu'l Nuqoud, Antonio Maffei, and Emilio Barbarigo, just to name a few, were some of the high points of the entire franchise, and no assassination since has compared to them.

SixKeys
05-10-2014, 12:51 AM
Just realized I never actually replied to the OP...

To be honest, I think the biggest thing they need to worry about is ASSASSINATION. AC4 had some decent ones, but I haven't been truly thrilled by pulling off a perfect assassination since the first two games. Assassination missions for Garnier de Naplouse, Sibrand, Abu'l Nuqoud, Antonio Maffei, and Emilio Barbarigo, just to name a few, were some of the high points of the entire franchise, and no assassination since has compared to them.

I don't know, I enjoyed the assassinations of Julien du Casse and Burgess and Cockram in AC4. Getting to those targets meant a long traversal through enemy territory, and the final challenge was climbing up the mast of the ship unseen to perform a perfect air assassination. (That's how I did it anyway, even though the optional objective for Burgess and Cockram tried to force me to an easier solution.) They reminded me of Sibrand's assassination, my favorite mission in AC1.

LoyalACFan
05-10-2014, 01:12 AM
I don't know, I enjoyed the assassinations of Julien du Casse and Burgess and Cockram in AC4. Getting to those targets meant a long traversal through enemy territory, and the final challenge was climbing up the mast of the ship unseen to perform a perfect air assassination. (That's how I did it anyway, even though the optional objective for Burgess and Cockram tried to force me to an easier solution.) They reminded me of Sibrand's assassination, my favorite mission in AC1.

They were pretty good, but I don't know, they just didn't have the same "oomph" as any of the assassinations in the early games. Maybe it's just because we've been playing these games for seven years, but I think there's more to it than that. Both the Ducasse/Burgess&Cockram assassinations steered you through very linear paths until you got to the immediate area where you needed to kill them, and it was extremely easy to pull off perfect kills. In AC1 and AC2, you had to be very careful with your approach if you didn't want to get spotted, but AC4 is extremely forgiving. Spotted by a guard in a restricted area? No problem, just pop back around the corner and hide in the dense foliage that's sure to be there, and he'll forget all about it (or even "better," he'll come straight to your hiding place where you can kill him silently and hide his body in one fell swoop). There has to be some sense of challenge for a perfect assassination to be exhilarating, and the last three games (and to a lesser extent, Brotherhood) just haven't delivered. I think detection AI is the biggest problem, they should go with something like MGS5GZ's system. But also, they need to totally scrap silent ranged weapons. I hate them. They're ridiculously overpowered for an Assassin game, even the sleep darts.

And somebody should murder the sync constraint system and put its body on display as a warning.

Shahkulu101
05-10-2014, 01:30 AM
Come now Loyal, AC1 and 2's assassinations were a breeze as well...

The only challenge stemmed from the fact that stealth mechanics were completely barebones in the two games. There were no real options a part from your chosen path. I guess choosing one is cool, but when infiltrating Emilio's palace for instance you can either use throwing knifes or sneak up on the archers - that's it - so there was a degree of caution. A little more challenging yes, but completely yawn inducing. The plantations alone trump AC1 and 2 in the stealth department. What with stalking zones and new stealth options: running assassinations make for fast paced, aggressive stealth approaches, ranged weapon approaches are viable, you can hide behind corners and so on. They are objectively more open and in my opinion more satisfying as a result.

LoyalACFan
05-10-2014, 01:50 AM
Come now Loyal, AC1 and 2's assassinations were a breeze as well...

To complete, yes. To complete perfectly? Not so much, and certainly not so much as AC4.


The only challenge stemmed from the fact that stealth mechanics were completely barebones in the two games.

Mechanically, the stealth hasn't changed one bit since AC2, apart from the new weapons (and stalking zones, which I'll get to later). Having a ton of weapons hanging off of your character gives you a ton of options, sure, but it makes things incredibly easy. Don't you feel a bit silly trying to stealthily circumvent a group of guards without being seen, when you could easily just sleep-dart every one of them in the face from a stalking zone, then nonchalantly walk up and stab their unconscious bodies to get the same result? If there's one option that's almost game-breakingly easy, then what's the use in having other options at all? You don't HAVE to use these tools, but you shouldn't have to handicap yourself to make the gameplay engaging.


The plantations alone trump AC1 and 2 in the stealth department. What with stalking zones and new stealth options: running assassinations make for fast paced, aggressive stealth approaches, ranged weapon approaches are viable, you can hide behind corners and so on. They are objectively more open and in my opinion more satisfying as a result.

Again, I totally disagree. Stalking zones suck. They'd be okay if they weren't freaking EVERYWHERE in AC4, but as is, they're waaaay overpowered. You can literally sit in one place in a stalking zone and fire off darts in 360 degrees to silently take out every single enemy within like a 50-foot radius. I'm so glad ACU is in an urban European setting so this won't be an issue.

Shahkulu101
05-10-2014, 02:27 AM
Alright, I can't really rebutt that. To me though, stealth in AC1 and AC2 is lacking in any real stimulation. It's slow for all the wrong reasons - I'd enjoy it if I had to workaround lifelike and challenging A.I but like I said they are a breeze. In AC4 I love taking out the guards like a panther, axe in hand - without anyone seeing me. Seriously try timing yourself on a plantation - aggressive and fast approaches are really fun. It's just not possible in AC2 - and the slow stealth it provides lacks tension and test.

LoyalACFan
05-10-2014, 02:36 AM
Alright, I can't really rebutt that. To me though, stealth in AC1 and AC2 is lacking in any real stimulation. It's slow for all the wrong reasons - I'd enjoy it if I had to workaround lifelike and challenging A.I but like I said they are a breeze. In AC4 I love taking out the guards like a panther, axe in hand - without anyone seeing me. Seriously try timing yourself on a plantation - aggressive and fast approaches are really fun. It's just not possible in AC2 - and the slow stealth it provides lacks tension and test.

Oh, for sure, stealth has never been perfect in AC, and the AI damn well hasn't. I just preferred the more methodical approach of the first two games. I still love AC4 in general, I just feel as though they're taking the wrong approach to stealth.

Shahkulu101
05-10-2014, 02:49 AM
Oh, for sure, stealth has never been perfect in AC, and the AI damn well hasn't. I just preferred the more methodical approach of the first two games. I still love AC4 in general, I just feel as though they're taking the wrong approach to stealth.

I guess the problem for me was even though the approach was methodical it was still a shallow system and I didn't feel like it was worth taking my time on. I prefer the fast approach cause it looks and feels a little more fun to me, even though it's still not satisfying as a system. And I'm not talking about just blowpiping the lot - I mainly enjoy running assassinations which I feel are an awesome addition. In a game like The Last of Us, you have to - and by god you want to - be methodical and take your time in order to stay undetected. Because the A.I have brain cells and the obstacle of working around them forces you to move and think in dynamic ways. In AC2 it's the same damn guard walking patterns every single time and waiting 30 seconds in a haystack for the guard to walk by bores me to death the 90th time. There's nothing worse than being forced to take your time in something you don't enjoy - which was what I felt like in AC2.

SixKeys
05-10-2014, 03:34 AM
I guess the problem for me was even though the approach was methodical it was still a shallow system and I didn't feel like it was worth taking my time on. I prefer the fast approach cause it looks and feels a little more fun to me, even though it's still not satisfying as a system. And I'm not talking about just blowpiping the lot - I mainly enjoy running assassinations which I feel are an awesome addition. In a game like The Last of Us, you have to - and by god you want to - be methodical and take your time in order to stay undetected. Because the A.I have brain cells and the obstacle of working around them forces you to move and think in dynamic ways. In AC2 it's the same damn guard walking patterns every single time and waiting 30 seconds in a haystack for the guard to walk by bores me to death the 90th time. There's nothing worse than being forced to take your time in something you don't enjoy - which was what I felt like in AC2.

Yeah, in this new generation of gaming AC's guards walking in predictable patterns definitely feels outdated. It would be better if there were no real paths, just a general area of patrol, and we had distraction tools like in TLoU to lure them towards a specific spot.

LoyalACFan
05-10-2014, 03:57 AM
Yeah, in this new generation of gaming AC's guards walking in predictable patterns definitely feels outdated. It would be better if there were no real paths, just a general area of patrol, and we had distraction tools like in TLoU to lure them towards a specific spot.

Eh, in certain contexts scripted patrols are still okay. I mean, professional security guards have specific posts/patrols in real life; as long as the AI responds believably to external stimuli, it's fine if they have a set patrol path. But in contexts like pirate camps or something where the enemies aren't actually guarding anything, yeah, they need to be more dynamic.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-10-2014, 04:42 AM
Go back to what AC1 was about..but keep it fresh?

Well ****..

Listen to your words. Going back to AC1 formula would mean it being just assassinations and investigations. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but don't think they can do that again and still make it fresh.

We need more open, time period based activities like pirating, hunting, crafting, drinking, and stuff to immerse ourselves in the time period, but as long as we keep doing that, people will continue to complain about it. "Pirate simulator", "American Revolution Simulation" "Italian Banker simulation".. just because it includes more than just pure assassin business.

Can't read ^

jayjay275
05-10-2014, 09:36 AM
In terms of side content, it needs to be refreshing and enjoyable; look at Skyrim.

GunnerGalactico
05-10-2014, 12:12 PM
In terms of side content, it needs to be refreshing and enjoyable; look at Skyrim.

They need to change it up and add new things, instead of having the same, usual stuff.

Sushiglutton
05-10-2014, 12:14 PM
Greatest challenge, have as much side content as Black Flag and having it be worthwhile, good rewards.

No, no, no, no, just no! This is the approach that is plaguing gaming more than any other atm. Last episode of Gamescoop there was some COD expert there who said that for him to complete the campaign there needs to be rewards (XP, weapons etc) that he can use in the MP. Others won't play games without trophy support. Some are prepared spend hours doing super boring things for some lousy trophy.

This is so backwards. Gaming is about doing things one enjoys. Virtual rewards are worthless. The most important aspect by far for the content is that it's enjoyable in its own right. As this is way harder to accomplish I sadly see more and more developers focus on rewards instead. It's a cheap way of padding games.

What AC should focus on is to have a reasnoable set of very enjoable activities simply dump the garbage.



Social stealth and social interaction needs the biggest kick in the arse IMO. Parkour is still fun as long as the environments are well-designed, assassinations are still fun as long as we have enough freedom. But social stealth has been severely neglected since AC2. That's what's making city gameplay feel tired. We don't just need random encounters, we need crowds that react realistically and don't just walk past a corpse on the street like it's no big deal. Crowds that will form and disperse naturally according to the situation. E.g. at a party people are glad to mingle and come together, but in a rainstorm they will run for cover, or if someone mysteriously falls ill, they will react appropriately, leaving you exposed. We need a better notoriety system, possibly based on reputation. Intelligent crowds who will act as either help or hindrance based on your actions, like AC1 intended. We need intelligent guards who won't just ignore that shady character who ducked into a bush right under their nose. Guards whose movements look and feel natural but not frustrating - by this I mean, make them more like the bad guys in The Last of Us. Where it doesn't feel like the game is screwing you out of a well-deserved stealth kill by changing the rules all of a sudden, but it doesn't reward completely boneheaded approaches either. If a guard turns his head at the wrong moment, you WILL be spotted, they WILL investigate and may even call back-up. They won't just shrug their shoulders and return to their post. When standing still or patrolling, their movements look and feel completely natural, yet you can still tell where their line of sight falls, even without a mini-map littered with handy red dots.

This is a very good point. Revamped social stealth would mean the world to city gameplay. It would mean you could have enjoyable plantation like scenarios in the city. I think you are correct that the key is to make a massive investment in AI/behaviour. Step one could be a more realistic reaction to dead bodies, making it important to assassinate guards in ways that let's you hide the body (there could be special factions that can help you with this).



Personally, I think brevity is the soul of a good random encounter. Sure it's not a huge addition to gameplay, but it makes you feel as though you're part of the game world, not some silent phantom ghosting through the streets doing nothing but wantonly murdering guards (silent phantom is good for assassination missions, but bad for basically every other scenario).

RDR has arguably the best random events in gaming, but even it had some good ones and some bad ones. Challenged to a duel? Attacked by roadside bandits? Begged to save someone from a murderous drunk or a pack of wolves? Awesome, I'll do those every chance I get. Asked to drive a wagon across the entirety of New Austin? Asked to chauffeur some lady to the nearest town? Asked to run around collecting flowers? Lol **** no.

I was a little bit too harsh on RE. I did enjoy some of them in RDR. Let's make some rules:

1) They need to be consistent with the character. In other words it makes no sense that flamboyant master assassin Ezio should help to carry some boxes. For John Marston to save someone from being lynched does make perfect sense. In AC4 they actually had a good idea of basing RE around recruiting. Problem was that the economy of the system was unbalanced. Aka you almost always had full crew, so the events didn't pop up enough.

2) They need to be enjoyable and not chores just as you described.

3) There needs to be a large set of them and their position needs to be "randomized" (obv some type of events only make sense in some specific type of places) to not make them feel repetetive and gamey. For example in Freedom Cry there was always a slave being chased outside the tavern, which just kills all immersion.

jayjay275
05-10-2014, 01:05 PM
They need to change it up and add new things, instead of having the same, usual stuff.

Indeed. Random events are necessary.

Assassin_M
05-10-2014, 05:26 PM
How can ANYONE not like random events?? You haven't properly roamed RDR's world if you don't like them...don't convince me otherwise

Shahkulu101
05-10-2014, 05:35 PM
How can ANYONE not like random events?? You haven't properly roamed RDR's world if you don't like them...don't convince me otherwise

I've not played RDR for some reason, I watched a walk through but stopped at Mexico. However, I've always wondered: just how big is RDR's map? Because just looking at it intimidates me - there looks to be no way to explore it all...

Assassin_M
05-10-2014, 05:45 PM
I've not played RDR for some reason, I watched a walk through but stopped at Mexico. However, I've always wondered: just how big is RDR's map? Because just looking at it intimidates me - there looks to be no way to explore it all...
It's twice the size of San Andreas...bigger than the Frontier...I didnt say explore ALL of it, just properly explore...go to gang hideouts, complete challenges, find strangers...etc those should be enough for exploration...there's a over 60 types of random encounters and they're infinite and NONE feels the same, even when they're the same type...

Wolfmeister1010
05-10-2014, 05:57 PM
The random encounters take the empty wasteland and make it AMAZING. Protecting a town from a sudden posse of gang members shooting up the town..saving a ****** from a drunkard attempting to kill her..participating in a random shooting contest with a frontiersman.

Plus, ALL the side missions are all about replay ability, unlike AC, where the contracts are finite.

Bounties regenerate, night jobs regenerate, you can always herd cattle and horses and bring them to ranches to earn money, gang hideouts regenerate..

Assassin_M
05-10-2014, 05:59 PM
The random encounters take the empty wasteland and make it AMAZING. Protecting a town from a sudden posse of gang members shooting up the town..saving a ****** from a drunkard attempting to kill her..participating in a random shooting contest with a frontiersman.

Plus, ALL the side missions are all about replay ability, unlike AC, where the contracts are finite.

Bounties regenerate, night jobs regenerate, you can always herd cattle and horses and bring them to ranches to earn money, gang hideouts regenerate..
I just don't understand can NOT like Random events..it makes no sense

I-Like-Pie45
05-10-2014, 05:59 PM
Wow M

you too?

Meow wonder when the filter decides its going to be meow's turn

pacmanate
05-10-2014, 06:03 PM
Wut is going on. Why is everyone getting banned. Is this a new trend?! I feel left out.

Edit: I was doing it before it was cool.

Dead1y-Derri
05-10-2014, 06:45 PM
Wut is going on. Why is everyone getting banned. Is this a new trend?! I feel left out.

Edit: I was doing it before it was cool.

I think its to do with the spam filter, you post more than 5 times in a 10 minute period and you're banned and have to wait until a Mod unbans you. Its happened to me twice now.

Shahkulu101
05-10-2014, 06:48 PM
No one cares about your misconduct Pac, which you wrongly take pride in

How very dare you

Locopells
05-10-2014, 06:49 PM
Yeah, it's the spam thing - it's happened to me twice in a row...

I'm trying to alert someone.

I-Like-Pie45
05-10-2014, 06:49 PM
Now everybody be nice

or meow will find your house and make it into giant litter box

jayjay275
05-10-2014, 06:59 PM
For me, this forum isn't that active so I don't post THAT frequently to be honest.

SixKeys
05-10-2014, 10:38 PM
I've not played RDR for some reason, I watched a walk through but stopped at Mexico. However, I've always wondered: just how big is RDR's map? Because just looking at it intimidates me - there looks to be no way to explore it all...

RDR's map is huge, but the difference with AC is that horses are actually good. :p The fast travel system with carriages is also great, similar to the Jackdaw's travel speed in that you can just ask someone to drive you to your destination and either press a button to skip ahead or sit back and enjoy the ride, in which case you get to look out of the window and watch your environment roll by at a leisurely pace. There are also trains which are like faster forms of carriages, except you can also climb on top of them to shoot birds or bandits to pass the time.

TheHumanTowel
05-11-2014, 01:27 PM
I kind of feel random events are somewhat overrated. They add spice, but they are typically too brief to be main courses (my stomach wrote this line). I mean let's take chasing after a thief. It's not that bloody fun tbh. You run for a bit, do a tackle and it's over. Or let's say help a woman being attacked: A short fist fight and it's over. Compare that to say taking out and boarding a man of war.

(Hope M won't read this lol)
I agree I don't know why random events are held up as so important. They're nice and all but Unity has much more important problems like in regards to finally improving the combat system and social stealth system. They add a nice bit of flavour to the game but after playing for a while oftentimes they start to feel decidedly less random. Like in RDR half the time you walk into Armadillo that same prostitute will be being attacked by that same guy in the exact same way.

shobhit7777777
05-11-2014, 02:06 PM
Beating Watch Dogs at Urban, systemic gameplay within an immersive, breathtakingly simulated city teeming with intelligent life.

Assassin_M
05-11-2014, 02:38 PM
I agree I don't know why random events are held up as so important. They're nice and all but Unity has much more important problems like in regards to finally improving the combat system and social stealth system. They add a nice bit of flavour to the game but after playing for a while oftentimes they start to feel decidedly less random. Like in RDR half the time you walk into Armadillo that same prostitute will be being attacked by that same guy in the exact same way.
A lively, intelligent world is one of the most important aspects of AC. A social stealth game NEEDS an intelligent and active crowd.

also, you're overreacting...it wasn't half of the time you walked into Armadillo...every random event had a cycle before it can occur again and each time you enter Armadillo, there's a different event happening and never has the same random event occurred twice in one row. There were robberies, Grand theft horse, prostitute attack, Posse attack, duels...etc. it's not perfect by any means but it's a start in the right direction...

Kirokill
05-11-2014, 02:52 PM
A lively, intelligent world is one of the most important aspects of AC. A social stealth game NEEDS an intelligent and active crowd.

Exact same thing I was going to say.
How can social stealth be possible with a crowd that does NOTHING?
They can be active, see a random brawl. Thieves, travelers or outsiders, robbers. Markets with activity in, for example a person buys something, leaves the store and not half a minute and thief steals the product. Also the voices of people should be toned up higher, for more live feeling.
Almost anything a human can do can add a good element for the game. The most important is not all of it to be centered around(or have a major role by) the protagonist.
While some of them you can do something about.

TheHumanTowel
05-11-2014, 02:54 PM
A lively, intelligent world is one of the most important aspects of AC. A social stealth game NEEDS an intelligent and active crowd.

also, you're overreacting...it wasn't half of the time you walked into Armadillo...every random event had a cycle before it can occur again and each time you enter Armadillo, there's a different event happening and never has the same random event occurred twice in one row. There were robberies, Grand theft horse, prostitute attack, Posse attack, duels...etc. it's not perfect by any means but it's a start in the right direction...
I was exaggerating but the repeats are noticeable. I don't think random events are related to the actual mechanics of social stealth really. They're separate from the actual blending and hiding. I think random events would be very nice in the game but I see improving the combat and social systems as far more important as they're the foundation of the entire game.

Another thing Unity needs to do is manage to actually render big crowds without the enormous amount of pop-in like in AC3. That would go a long way to making the cities immersive.

Sushiglutton
05-11-2014, 02:56 PM
A lively, intelligent world is one of the most important aspects of AC. A social stealth game NEEDS an intelligent and active crowd.

I think there may be a confusion of terms here (as is often the case as I don't know what you game experts call various things). To me a random event is a mini-mission you (organically) receive in the open world, that you can choose to do or not. As all missions it has some kind of success/fail state. An NPC doing something random (like say starting to sing, or push you) I would NOT call a random event. Therefor to me random events and social stealth are unrelated.

(A random event could consist of social stealth type gameplay ofc)

Kirokill
05-11-2014, 02:59 PM
I think there may be a confusion of terms here (as is often the case as I don't know what you game experts call various things). To me a random event is a mini-mission you (organically) receive in the open world, that you can choose to do or not. As all missions it has some kind of success/fail state. An NPC doing something random (like say starting to sing, or push you) I would NOT call a random event. Therefor to me random events and social stealth are unrelated.

If the crowd would look at him and it won't be so frequent, I'd call it a random event.

Sushiglutton
05-11-2014, 03:02 PM
If the crowd would look at him and it won't be so frequent, I'd call it a random event.

I do not know what is correct and not. I hope you agree that there is a distinction to be made.

Assassin_M
05-11-2014, 03:02 PM
I think there may be a confusion of terms here (as is often the case as I don't know what you game experts call various things). To me a random event is a mini-mission you (organically) receive in the open world, that you can choose to do or not. As all missions it has some kind of success/fail state. An NPC doing something random (like say starting to sing, or push you) I would NOT call a random event. Therefor to me random events and social stealth are unrelated.

(A random event could consist of social stealth type gameplay ofc)

I was exaggerating but the repeats are noticeable. I don't think random events are related to the actual mechanics of social stealth really. They're separate from the actual blending and hiding. I think random events would be very nice in the game but I see improving the combat and social systems as far more important as they're the foundation of the entire game.

Another thing Unity needs to do is manage to actually render big crowds without the enormous amount of pop-in like in AC3. That would go a long way to making the cities immersive.
I didn't say that Random events would play a part in Social stealth (even though with a little tweaking, it can) I was stating that a game about social stealth (i.e crowds) should include focusing on the intelligence and activity of the crowd. a crowd needs to be interesting and dynamic for the player to WANT to interact with it. the interactivity of and with the crowd would make blending MUCH more organic, this is not mentioning the fact THAT ALL open world games need to focus on the people inhabiting the world. one of the most important things in an open world game is a crowd, imagine a social stealth AND open world game.

EDIT: What I mean by Random event is anything RDR...from Posse attacks to thieves looting dead bodies in the wilderness.

RinoTheBouncer
05-11-2014, 05:24 PM
I hope there will be some sort of interaction with the city, the citizens, the resources and the government. How about making money through opening stores or projects and that money can make you big and and be the friend of the people and a threat to the corrupt government.

If the notoriety system becomes more than just a few posters we collect or some herald we can bribe, but something that affects the gameplay. Perhaps being good to the people can make them love you, and not in a fixed way where the dancers cover you for free or thieves join you for free, but more like the citizens of the town do help this man who is actually good to them and the difficulty of missions relies on who you are to the people and what you give.

Imagine a man who steals little money from the rich, making a large fortune, and giving to the poor, or starting a business and giving jobs to the jobless. Or maybe he’s a rich man and he helps the people with his money, with job opportunities, freeing unjustly imprisoned citizens..etc. Maybe he’ll be the rich man by day and an assassin by night, and in his disguise, he helps whoever’s in trouble.

That way, investing time in renovating stores, buying stuff, selling stuff, helping others, completing side missions..etc. will be more than just something optional for the sake of a 100% completion but more of a way to tailor your experience however you see fit. Side missions will have more than a few lame dialogues and characters and there will be a motive to finish the side missions before running to the “!” symbol and actually making a difference in how that mission is finished and making the single player campaign feel much longer and richer.

Shahkulu101
05-11-2014, 06:07 PM
I hope there will be some sort of interaction with the city, the citizens, the resources and the government. How about making money through opening stores or projects and that money can make you big and and be the friend of the people and a threat to the corrupt government.

If the notoriety system becomes more than just a few posters we collect or some herald we can bribe, but something that affects the gameplay. Perhaps being good to the people can make them love you, and not in a fixed way where the dancers cover you for free or thieves join you for free, but more like the citizens of the town do help this man who is actually good to them and the difficulty of missions relies on who you are to the people and what you give.

Imagine a man who steals little money from the rich, making a large fortune, and giving to the poor, or starting a business and giving jobs to the jobless. Or maybe he’s a rich man and he helps the people with his money, with job opportunities, freeing unjustly imprisoned citizens..etc. Maybe he’ll be the rich man by day and an assassin by night, and in his disguise, he helps whoever’s in trouble.

That way, investing time in renovating stores, buying stuff, selling stuff, helping others, completing side missions..etc. will be more than just something optional for the sake of a 100% completion but more of a way to tailor your experience however you see fit. Side missions will have more than a few lame dialogues and characters and there will be a motive to finish the side missions before running to the “!” symbol and actually making a difference in how that mission is finished and making the single player campaign feel much longer and richer.

The thing is, if we played as a rich philanthropist Arnaud - then Arnaud would have to have been factually a philanthropist...

The animus limits how much we can tailor our own experiences.

oliacr
05-11-2014, 08:33 PM
I hope there will be some sort of interaction with the city, the citizens, the resources and the government. How about making money through opening stores or projects and that money can make you big and and be the friend of the people and a threat to the corrupt government.

If the notoriety system becomes more than just a few posters we collect or some herald we can bribe, but something that affects the gameplay. Perhaps being good to the people can make them love you, and not in a fixed way where the dancers cover you for free or thieves join you for free, but more like the citizens of the town do help this man who is actually good to them and the difficulty of missions relies on who you are to the people and what you give.

Imagine a man who steals little money from the rich, making a large fortune, and giving to the poor, or starting a business and giving jobs to the jobless. Or maybe he’s a rich man and he helps the people with his money, with job opportunities, freeing unjustly imprisoned citizens..etc. Maybe he’ll be the rich man by day and an assassin by night, and in his disguise, he helps whoever’s in trouble.

That way, investing time in renovating stores, buying stuff, selling stuff, helping others, completing side missions..etc. will be more than just something optional for the sake of a 100% completion but more of a way to tailor your experience however you see fit. Side missions will have more than a few lame dialogues and characters and there will be a motive to finish the side missions before running to the “!” symbol and actually making a difference in how that mission is finished and making the single player campaign feel much longer and richer.
Agreed with most of the points. Making money through opening stores is very good. I wondered about building buildings like renovate , but it completely affects the whole city and gameplay. For an example, you could rebuild the poor districts of a city - for example, Constantine district in Constantinople, you could repair those houses build fountains shops - and many more. Invest more to get more.

About the notoriety system. If it again the poster tearing, herald bribing- I don't know, something fresh needed. I don't have an example. But this is even better than nothing to say the least.

lothario-da-be
05-11-2014, 08:37 PM
The greatest challenge will be having good stealth without bushes lol. 70% of the stealth in ac4 was based around hiding in bushes, I expect improvements in unity.

GunnerGalactico
05-11-2014, 08:49 PM
I hope there will be some sort of interaction with the city, the citizens, the resources and the government. How about making money through opening stores or projects and that money can make you big and and be the friend of the people and a threat to the corrupt government.

If the notoriety system becomes more than just a few posters we collect or some herald we can bribe, but something that affects the gameplay. Perhaps being good to the people can make them love you, and not in a fixed way where the dancers cover you for free or thieves join you for free, but more like the citizens of the town do help this man who is actually good to them and the difficulty of missions relies on who you are to the people and what you give.

Imagine a man who steals little money from the rich, making a large fortune, and giving to the poor, or starting a business and giving jobs to the jobless. Or maybe he’s a rich man and he helps the people with his money, with job opportunities, freeing unjustly imprisoned citizens..etc. Maybe he’ll be the rich man by day and an assassin by night, and in his disguise, he helps whoever’s in trouble.

That way, investing time in renovating stores, buying stuff, selling stuff, helping others, completing side missions..etc. will be more than just something optional for the sake of a 100% completion but more of a way to tailor your experience however you see fit. Side missions will have more than a few lame dialogues and characters and there will be a motive to finish the side missions before running to the “!” symbol and actually making a difference in how that mission is finished and making the single player campaign feel much longer and richer.

I like your suggestions. :)

* In the Unity trailer, I saw Arnaud clutching a pocket watch- it can mean two things.
It probably is a memento from a friend or family member or it is his own

From what I gather, he probably is sophisticated and probably comes from nobility (ie: from the way he glances at the watch). That is just my theory. ;)
I like the idea of him living a double life, a wealthy businessman or a Count by day and an Assassin by night who helps citizens who are in need.

oliacr
05-11-2014, 08:50 PM
I like your suggestions. :)

* In the Unity trailer, I saw Arnaud clutching a pocket watch- it can mean two things.
It probably is a memento from a friend or family member or it is his own

From what I gather, he probably is sophisticated and probably comes from nobility (ie: from the way he glances at the watch). That is just my theory. ;)
I like the idea of him living a double life, a wealthy businessman or a Count by day and an Assassin by night who helps citizens who are in need.

This can be bad if not well implemented.

GunnerGalactico
05-11-2014, 08:54 PM
This can be bad if not well implemented.

It was just a suggestion... even if it did sound tacky.

RinoTheBouncer
05-12-2014, 08:38 AM
The thing is, if we played as a rich philanthropist Arnaud - then Arnaud would have to have been factually a philanthropist...

The animus limits how much we can tailor our own experiences.

In each new game, we get a certain upgrade to the Animus, like for example in AC1 we used to drown for some reason and not have subtitles yet that changed in ACII. So perhaps, this time, the Animus can be made more flexible. It can be treated like the Armor of Altair and the Tombs. The Tombs were locations that must be explored to get the Armor, so it wasn’t just an outfit, it was a series of levels we had to go through in order to unlock it, yet the Animus could allow us to finish the game without it, so it can be that way or something similar.


Agreed with most of the points. Making money through opening stores is very good. I wondered about building buildings like renovate , but it completely affects the whole city and gameplay. For an example, you could rebuild the poor districts of a city - for example, Constantine district in Constantinople, you could repair those houses build fountains shops - and many more. Invest more to get more.

About the notoriety system. If it again the poster tearing, herald bribing- I don't know, something fresh needed. I don't have an example. But this is even better than nothing to say the least.

Yeah, we totally need a new way to affect notoriety. The printer was a new thing in ACIII. It wasn’t perfect, but it was new. Maybe they can be as I noted above or something similar. But it really has to change.

I like your suggestions. :)

* In the Unity trailer, I saw Arnaud clutching a pocket watch- it can mean two things.
It probably is a memento from a friend or family member or it is his own

From what I gather, he probably is sophisticated and probably comes from nobility (ie: from the way he glances at the watch). That is just my theory. ;)
I like the idea of him living a double life, a wealthy businessman or a Count by day and an Assassin by night who helps citizens who are in need.

Thank you, my friend.

AC:Liberation had a good way of portraying an Assassin. Aveline was really rich and she owned a lot of business in town, yet she’d disguise as a slave to infiltrate locations and accomplish her missions. I think doing something similar would be great. He can be a politician or a rich merchant that knows exactly what’s going on and at night, he seeks to change that. He can even be at a gathering of politicians and the recruits do the assassination for him while he makes sure that he is trusted among the Templars yet fighting for the Assassins.

I like your theory and I agree that the watch could have some significance. Maybe it belongs to the person who’s being executed, a gift from them or just a way of telling the time of the execution. Who knows? but I’d love it if he turns out to be part of the nobility of society yet fights for the greater good. I hate how many games and films portray rich people to be narcissists or evil.

LoyalACFan
05-12-2014, 09:01 AM
It was just a suggestion... even if it did sound tacky.

No, I think it's a good idea, certainly not tacky, it's just that they need to be careful when playing the "double life" card. AC2 suffered somewhat from the disconnect between Nobleman Ezio and Assassin Ezio, and Liberation fell flat on its face because of the disconnect between Assassin Aveline and Spoiled Daddy's Girl Aveline.

The dual identity thing could be cool, but the duality needs to really be a focus of the story if they go that route. Otherwise it just feels like sometimes we're playing as a rich bastard and other times we're playing as a Master Assassin, without ever really getting a sense of the character that unites the two personas.

GunnerGalactico
05-12-2014, 01:01 PM
No, I think it's a good idea, certainly not tacky, it's just that they need to be careful when playing the "double life" card. AC2 suffered somewhat from the disconnect between Nobleman Ezio and Assassin Ezio, and Liberation fell flat on its face because of the disconnect between Assassin Aveline and Spoiled Daddy's Girl Aveline.

The dual identity thing could be cool, but the duality needs to really be a focus of the story if they go that route. Otherwise it just feels like sometimes we're playing as a rich bastard and other times we're playing as a Master Assassin, without ever really getting a sense of the character that unites the two personas.

That's true in a way. If they do take that route, the main character has to portrayed as humble, calm, powerful and independent... not as Tony Stark or Oliver Queen :p


Thank you, my friend.

AC:Liberation had a good way of portraying an Assassin. Aveline was really rich and she owned a lot of business in town, yet she’d disguise as a slave to infiltrate locations and accomplish her missions. I think doing something similar would be great. He can be a politician or a rich merchant that knows exactly what’s going on and at night, he seeks to change that. He can even be at a gathering of politicians and the recruits do the assassination for him while he makes sure that he is trusted among the Templars yet fighting for the Assassins.

I like your theory and I agree that the watch could have some significance. Maybe it belongs to the person who’s being executed, a gift from them or just a way of telling the time of the execution. Who knows? but I’d love it if he turns out to be part of the nobility of society yet fights for the greater good. I hate how many games and films portray rich people to be narcissists or evil.

Oh, yeah... I forgot abot Aveline, thanks for the reminder. She maintained her identity and image quite well. I was also thinking that the person that is being executed could be his friend, family member or a fellow Assassin... or his target could be somewhere in the crowd witnessing the execution. He might be biding his time (hence, glancing at the watch), waiting for the right moment to strike and time it when the blade falls. Just another theory of mine :)

RinoTheBouncer
05-12-2014, 05:17 PM
Oh, yeah... I forgot abot Aveline, thanks for the reminder. She maintained her identity and image quite well. I was also thinking that the person that is being executed could be his friend, family member or a fellow Assassin... or his target could be somewhere in the crowd witnessing the execution. He might be biding his time (hence, glancing at the watch), waiting for the right moment to strike and time it when the blade falls. Just another theory of mine :)

Good theories, my friend. I mean why else would he be there? I like the idea of taking advantage of the situation to strike. I wonder if the AC franchise will contain that much details in terms of gameplay and story to allow something similar to the system I’ve suggested. I mean the whole notoriety thing has become a chore, same goes for renovating stores and collecting pointless objects. If they give a story value to side missions, let them have some effects on the main missions then it will surely bring more replay value to the franchise. “Lets finish AC as the man of the people”, “Lets finish AC as the ruthless noble” and it’s not like a system that resembles INFAMOUS style, but more of a way to tailor the experience and difficulty and the way certain events flow.

Ureh
05-12-2014, 06:21 PM
Oh, yeah... I forgot abot Aveline, thanks for the reminder. She maintained her identity and image quite well. I was also thinking that the person that is being executed could be his friend, family member or a fellow Assassin... or his target could be somewhere in the crowd witnessing the execution. He might be biding his time (hence, glancing at the watch), waiting for the right moment to strike and time it when the blade falls. Just another theory of mine :)

I didn't get a really close luck of the object he's holding (watched it on youtube, 720p). And maybe lots of people mentioned this already but maybe it's actually locket or some sorta time shifter piece of eden. Ooooooh maybe he'll reverse time to try and save someone's life. :P :)

Hans684
05-12-2014, 06:53 PM
I didn't get a really close luck of the object he's holding (watched it on youtube, 720p). And maybe lots of people mentioned this already but maybe it's actually locket or some sorta time shifter piece of eden. Ooooooh maybe he'll reverse time to try and save someone's life. :P :)

Since it is the FR he will travel a head of time or a head back in time.