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View Full Version : What would you not like to see in Assassin's Creed: Unity?



Dev_Anj
05-06-2014, 04:20 AM
We have a thread discussing the features we'd like to see in Unity. So, why don't we discuss which features we wouldn't like to see in Unity?

I would like not to see these in Unity:

1. "Assassin flag" collectibles:

You know what these are. Collectibles strewn around the map, with no logical context given to them. These seem to plague most open world games, and generally feel like a way to pad the game's content. Please do not include "Assassin flag" collectibles of any sort, whether they be feathers, fragments, flags or anything.

2. Tomb platforming:

I like the architecture of tombs in the AC games. But they seem to be built around platforming and tests on platforming skills. Now, AC's parkour works for freerunning, but I've found that it lacks the precision needed for platforming challenges. Also, it is more or less automated in the games, so that players get across roofs quickly. Either make the controls more precise for platforming, while still keeping them handy for freerunning, or turn them into stealth sections. Also, tombs could use a more logical level design.

3. Overt focus on counter attacks:

AC's combat has never been its strength. It has always been rather slow paced, and reliant on one button counter attacks, or overpowered swift attacks. They have experimented a lot with the combat in the games, yet somehow haven't solved its core problems. I hope they do it in Unity, but for a start, try reducing the focus on counter attacks, and making them more involved than a timed button press.

4. 4 group crowds:

I've heard reports that Unity uses the next generation hardware to make more realistic crowds. I hope that's true, but in any case, I don't want the 4 group crowds to return.

Ureh
05-06-2014, 04:34 AM
1. ACB/ACR-style city renovations.

2. Den Defense
Wasn't horrible, but at least make sure it's completely avoidable without having to manage the notoriety every few minutes.

3. Missing cutscenes in replay mode.
In other words, I hope we don't have to restart the whole game just to see a particular scene (example: Haytham inducting Charles into the Order).

That's about it, for now. >:-)

edit:
4. Kenway's Fleet-esque
I could've avoided this but I can't help but try to complete everything. Ahhhhhh! :eek: It needs to be more hands-on and also take less time to complete each mission. Better yet, don't include it anymore. :P

LoyalACFan
05-06-2014, 05:20 AM
Social events and community challenges.

MiguelSanch2014
05-06-2014, 05:31 AM
Can't believe it hasn't already been mentioned...

NO FOLLOWING / EAVESDROPPING!!!!!

SpiritOfNevaeh
05-06-2014, 05:33 AM
1. Acb/acr-style city renovations.

2. Den defense
wasn't horrible, but at least make sure it's completely avoidable without having to manage the notoriety every few minutes.

3. Missing cutscenes in replay mode.
In other words, i hope we don't have to restart the whole game just to see a particular scene (example: Haytham inducting charles into the order).

that's about it, for now. >:-)

edit:
4. Kenway's fleet-esque
i could've avoided this but i can't help but try to complete everything. Ahhhhhh! :eek: It needs to be more hands-on and also take less time to complete each mission. Better yet, don't include it anymore. :p

^ this!

SpiritOfNevaeh
05-06-2014, 05:45 AM
social events and community challenges.

^ and this.

GunnerGalactico
05-06-2014, 08:39 AM
Social events and community challenges.

Definitely not gonna miss those

shobhit7777777
05-06-2014, 10:33 AM
I don't want to see [edit]
[edit] here denoting the following:

1. "Exotic"gameplay - chariot races, flying machines, tanks, ships, para-sailing, platforming
2. Economy - upgrading villas, buying stuff, crafting stuff, buying shops, being a manager
3. Crap mission design
4. Modern day shenanigans - I simply can't give a **** about it

A solid, Assassin experience please....its been a long time.

Mr_Shade
05-06-2014, 10:36 AM
No bypassing the swear filter please...

oliacr
05-06-2014, 10:37 AM
Pointless tailing and eavesdropping missions.


Social events and community challenges.
and this.

RinoTheBouncer
05-06-2014, 10:57 AM
I don’t wanna see any of the “self contained mainstream” crap. The first 4 games succeeded cause they were the way they were. AC is famous today and selling regardless of it’s contents because the first 3 games made this reputation.

deskp
05-06-2014, 11:03 AM
Can't believe it hasn't already been mentioned...

NO FOLLOWING / EAVESDROPPING!!!!!


I liked those in AC4, was a great opertunity to use all your tools + social stealth, + roof running + tree running.

Its not a great agrument cause if people dont like something they just dont: But if you don't enjoy those mission you are playing them wrong!


I would not want annoying collectibles to return, ac4 had all those stupid chest on those stupid tiny island, so repetetive trying to collect those..

Aphex_Tim
05-06-2014, 11:09 AM
Mobile eavesdropping. I can't tell you how frustrating these missions are to me!
Tailing, fine. Eavesdropping, fine. Both at the same time? Hell no!

It was even worse in Freedom Cry with the return of the telepathic guards. Every eavesdrop mission starts off fine but I always end up fighting off wave after wave of Frenchies and slavers while trying to stay in the target area, just praying my targets won't notice the massive slaughter going on behind their backs... also making it impossible for me to actually follow the conversation.

Locopells
05-06-2014, 11:13 AM
Missing cutscenes is about the only thing I agree with here. I don't mind any of the rest of it, as long as things like the social stuff and the minigames aren't needed to unlock everything or to get 100% (in other words, so if you don't like something, you can just ignore it).

With the eavesdropping stuff it would be good to have the level of the voices up a bit though - so that you're not straining to hear what they say (because you're in a decent hiding place) which results in you messing the free running up...

Markaccus
05-06-2014, 11:21 AM
Mobile eavesdropping. I can't tell you how frustrating these missions are to me!
Tailing, fine. Eavesdropping, fine. Both at the same time? Hell no!

It was even worse in Freedom Cry with the return of the telepathic guards. Every eavesdrop mission starts off fine but I always end up fighting off wave after wave of Frenchies and slavers while trying to stay in the target area, just praying my targets won't notice the massive slaughter going on behind their backs... also making it impossible for me to actually follow the conversation.

Totally agree here. A little bit of each is fine, everyone likes different aspects of these games, i keep going on about how ac games have something for everyone, right up to those fanatics who want to do 100% synch, and right down to those who only want to complete the story.... but some of the mobile evesdropping missions in ac3 and 4 go on WAY TOO LONG and usually have at least one section where it is blind luck that rooftop shooters are not watching the very spot you need to walk through at a given time, meaning multiple attempts required to do a mission which is nothing more than a link between two more exciting missions.

LoyalACFan
05-06-2014, 11:34 AM
Mobile eavesdropping. I can't tell you how frustrating these missions are to me!
Tailing, fine. Eavesdropping, fine. Both at the same time? Hell no!

Agreed. I wasn't really frustrated by them per se, but I just thought it was extremely cheesy that Edward was taking out snipers and sprinting across rooftops while simultaneously hanging on every word of an enemy's conversation. I think it was meant to be badass, but it was just silly. Like something out of a slapstick comedy.

Tailing and eavesdropping should be used sparingly anyway, even on their own (neither are extremely compelling gameplay mechanics) but they definitely shouldn't go overboard with mobile eavesdropping like they did in AC4.

AherasSTRG
05-06-2014, 11:43 AM
I don't want to see stupid posts by idiotic hipsters about how Assassin's Creed Unity is ruining the franchise (like every year with every other AC). The game will be out and like every other AC game before it, it is going to rock.

GunnerGalactico
05-06-2014, 11:44 AM
Tailing and eavesdropping should be used sparingly anyway, even on their own (neither are extremely compelling gameplay mechanics) but they definitely shouldn't go overboard with mobile eavesdropping like they did in AC4.

This I agree with. I remember what a pain it was to kill the snipers on the roof and keep up with the conversation at the same time. :nonchalance:

AherasSTRG
05-06-2014, 11:48 AM
The tailing and eavesdropping missions for me were great (though a bit unrealistic), a really good challenge befitting an assassin. I hope they return, just not be as frequent as they were in AC4.

shobhit7777777
05-06-2014, 01:35 PM
No bypassing the swear filter please...

Just keeping you on your toes ;)

Full marks for a swift response. Mod Rank: Vigilant Hawk

Regarding the tailing/eavesdropping missions

Eavesdropping can GTFO...never enjoyed them because of the stringent conditions and 0 replayability factor

Tailing on the other hand....that could be really interesting.

Tailing basically is a great way to showcase social stealth gameplay. They just need to do the following to improve it:

1. Remove the 10 second LOS rule - Its BS. It should be more organic. Instead of the countdown and a frantic rush....the game should instead slide the player into a re-acquisition phase. Basically your target stops and moves into a blend group or does something natural - check out the wares at a shop, join in a conversation, smoke something, lean against a wall and check for tails.
Remove the marker from the target...let him/her blend. The green circle pops up on your map....get there and use your powers of observation to find the target. Eagle vision should pop up several possible targets - or if you're smart enough you can recognize your prey (because you aren't a complete twit, you have a fair idea of what he/she looks like)

2. 3 tiered recognition - Target sees you once - he/she is suspicious. The target will walk faster and check for tails more often. Best to take to the roofs or cut across parallel streets. He sees you a second time...suspicion confirmed. Target takes an alternate path through alleys, runs more often and avoids public areas. Roof tops are your best bet. You get spotted twice? Target beelines for the destination....might as well restart.

Dev_Anj
05-06-2014, 01:45 PM
If we're going to keep tailing missions, how about not have all the targets recognize us? Of course, once our character has notoriety with some people, then he/she can be spotted by the target. Otherwise, the target shouldn't be bothered seeing you unless you perform actions that break your cover, like say pushing a civilian. This would make the target mildly suspicious. Getting into more problems would make the target more suspicious, till he decides to alarm the guards.

Also, yes tailing paths can be shorter, except for some important story missions, in which case there should be only two or three of them.

Sushiglutton
05-06-2014, 02:18 PM
Couriers, may they rot in hell!

Eavesdropping/tailing a mission type that was never fun, now it has become a nuisance.

Pickpocket/investigation missions. Playing Freedom Cry reminded me of how dull these are.

Social events/fleet like mini-games. No thanks.

Enormous amounts of generic collectibles.

Fully automatic freerunning.

Shallow combat.

Connor, Desmond.

Assassin recruits



I don't want to see [edit]
[edit] here denoting the following:

1. "Exotic"gameplay - chariot races, flying machines, tanks, ships, para-sailing, platforming
2. Economy - upgrading villas, buying stuff, crafting stuff, buying shops, being a manager
3. Crap mission design
4. Modern day shenanigans - I simply can't give a **** about it

A solid, Assassin experience please....its been a long time.


Thing is though that being an assassin kind of sucks. Only enjoyable part is to infiltrate an open area, which we had plenty of in AC4. I'd take platforming and naval over eavesdropping any time.

Dev_Anj
05-06-2014, 02:39 PM
Assassin recruits



I think they can add another dimension to the gameplay, if done right. Like say, placing a sniper at one position, setting up an ambush with two recruits in some bushes. I'm sure I don't want the Assassin recruits from Brotherhood and Revelations though!

oliacr
05-06-2014, 02:42 PM
I think they can add another dimension to the gameplay, if done right. Like say, placing a sniper at one position, setting up an ambush with two recruits in some bushes. I'm sure I don't want the Assassin recruits from Brotherhood and Revelations though!
I didn't have any problem with Brotherhood and Revelations recruits but they could have been done better like you said. to place somebody there, then there and do this. Strategy. When you need to kill someone who is heavily guarded and you have your recruits you might use those.

Thing is though that being an assassin kind of sucks. Only enjoyable part is to infiltrate an open area, which we had plenty of in AC4. I'd take platforming and naval over eavesdropping any time.

Agreed.

Shahkulu101
05-06-2014, 03:01 PM
The same core combat from AC3 and AC4. This type of combat has become boring in all honesty. The focus on repetitive counters makes it mind numbingly easy.

Eavesdropping. I don't particularly mind tailing, but mobile and eavesdropping is far too gamey for my liking "stay in the circle" and like somebody said there's no way the Assassin can hear every little bit of conversation. I know certainly couldn't, what with all the multitasking.

I think that's it. I'm more interested and excited to see what's added rather than removed.

dxsxhxcx
05-06-2014, 04:35 PM
Combat easy as **** and modern day in 1st person playing as a meaningless flying tablet.

Aphex_Tim
05-06-2014, 06:24 PM
Combat easy as **** and modern day in 1st person playing as a meaningless flying tablet.

Depends what they do with it. Hacking computers did make me feel like a sneaky bastard breaking into the Abstergo database. It's just that the info gathered in AC4 was not a whole lot of what we didn't know already. If Ubi would build on that and make the modern day story something that you have to completely figure out by yourself (basically making it optional), it could become really interesting!

Locopells
05-06-2014, 06:30 PM
I liked the concept of ACIV's modern day segments, but while what we got made sense with the character we were playing, I'd have like more Splinter Cell-esqe stuff, sneaking around the office at night time (and in third person - I'm happy for the character to not be me).

Aphex_Tim
05-06-2014, 06:44 PM
(and in third person - I'm happy for the character to not be me).

I wouldn't mind 3rd person either, but I do think Ubi handled the concept very cleverly; almost making you think Abstergo is actually a real company that's making games called "Assassin's Creed".

STDlyMcStudpants
05-06-2014, 07:20 PM
Collectibles and tombs (flat forming) are my favorite things in AC.... LOL
I dont want to see under water missions or lazy and boring stealth mission design like we saw in ac iv...
If ac turns into hitman (like ac iv did)..im done -_-

Megas_Doux
05-06-2014, 07:30 PM
1 Social Events.
2 Buying landmarks.
3 The uber ugly AC IVīs eagle vision.
4 AC II/ACB story.

Finally, less Borgias, more haythams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SpiritOfNevaeh
05-06-2014, 07:37 PM
1 social events.
2 buying landmarks.
3 the uber ugly ac ivīs eagle vision.
4 ac ii/acb story.

Finally, less borgias, more haythams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^ this!!

Shahkulu101
05-06-2014, 07:39 PM
Oh I also want to see the end of purchasable weapons. Make it so we can only obtain weapons from enemies and the only permanent weapons are our hidden blades and perhaps a pistol.

Megas_Doux
05-06-2014, 08:01 PM
Oh I also want to see the end of purchasable weapons. Make it so we can only obtain weapons from enemies and the only permanent weapons are our hidden blades and perhaps a pistol.

Quite the opposite in fact!

Personally, I want our next protagonist to be a french version of Haytham, at least of his deadly elegant sword style.

GunnerGalactico
05-06-2014, 08:07 PM
Quite the opposite in fact!

Personally, I want our next protagonist to be a french version of Haytham, at least of his deadly elegant sword style.

* That I'd like to see :)

I'd like to see Arnaud have a poised, refined personality combined with Haytham's sophistication and sassiness. I don't want him to have Connor's brutal fighting style.

Shahkulu101
05-06-2014, 08:11 PM
Quite the opposite in fact!

Personally, I want our next protagonist to be a french version of Haytham, at least of his deadly elegant sword style.

Not saying get rid of sword combat - I'd still like to be able to pick up swords in combat when it makes sense to be armed. His animations can be deadly and elegant or whatever.

LieutenantRex
05-06-2014, 11:34 PM
Remember in ACB and ACR when you replayed a mission, it'd take you to the time right before you started the mission? It didn't jump you right into the mission like later games. I hope this returns, because I really wanted to explore Boston under Redcoat rule again with Forts and stuff after I'd completed the game.

Locopells
05-07-2014, 12:27 AM
I wouldn't mind 3rd person either, but I do think Ubi handled the concept very cleverly; almost making you think Abstergo is actually a real company that's making games called "Assassin's Creed".

Oh yeah, that I liked.


Collectibles and tombs (flat forming) are my favorite things in AC.... LOL
I dont want to see under water missions or lazy and boring stealth mission design like we saw in ac iv...
If ac turns into hitman (like ac iv did)..im done -_-

Turned into Hitman?

STDlyMcStudpants
05-07-2014, 02:30 AM
Turned into Hitman?
Yeah - slow paced and boring

I-Like-Pie45
05-07-2014, 02:31 AM
feet

the sounds of boot running when its the feet model of the character is just immersion breaking

SpiritOfNevaeh
05-07-2014, 03:04 AM
Don't know if anyone said this yet, but UNSKIPPABLE [ENDING] CREDITS!

Dev_Anj
05-07-2014, 04:34 AM
Collectibles and tombs (flat forming) are my favorite things in AC.... LOL
I dont want to see under water missions or lazy and boring stealth mission design like we saw in ac iv...
If ac turns into hitman (like ac iv did)..im done -_-

You like running around near empty maps just to collect feathers, flags etc.? What do you enjoy about them?

And I didn't know that Hitman was about blowing up ships and forts, running around the rooftops of 18th century cities, fighting 20 people at once with swords, hiding in bushes, hunting animals etc etc. :p

shobhit7777777
05-07-2014, 06:44 AM
Thing is though that being an assassin kind of sucks. Only enjoyable part is to infiltrate an open area, which we had plenty of in AC4. I'd take platforming and naval over eavesdropping any time.

Thats because Ubi has been doing it wrong.


Yeah - slow paced and boring


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLQJJO9VOMM

Slow paced and boring indeed.

odovoro
05-07-2014, 07:19 AM
The lack of storyline and the helpless feeling your just drifting through motions

LoyalACFan
05-07-2014, 08:25 AM
Thats because Ubi has been doing it wrong.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLQJJO9VOMM

Slow paced and boring indeed.

Probably the most entertaining AC stealth gameplay I've seen. Nice find :D

oliacr
05-07-2014, 08:57 AM
Don't know if anyone said this yet, but UNSKIPPABLE [ENDING] CREDITS!

This has never bothered me. Why? Because I can appreciate the work. They put countless hours into their games trying to make the most of their time. But showing a black screen with the names isn't good enough. In AC4 the first part of the credits was good because Edward and Jenny were speaking and I could see the Jackdaw. So if it comes down to this, I'd rather watch in-game content while I'm reading the names and appreciate all the work.

Locopells
05-07-2014, 11:14 AM
I generally watch the credits, even if they're skippable - like they have been since TOKW. I do like the option though, since it suits me if I need to get a move on.

Best thing is like ACII's and IV's.

Moultonborough
05-07-2014, 12:38 PM
I don't mind eavesdropping but they went way overboard with it in AC IV. They don't need to fully remove it but it was pretty much every mission of the game. UGH. I love the Modern Day things but not having it be First Person. I liked it in Desmond's Journey but to make it the whole "character" and come up with the excuse "we want it to be you" was just lazy. Last is stop starting off as a Templar. We did it with Haythem (sp?) and then again with Edward (even though he wasn't fully) but still. Once is enough.

AherasSTRG
05-07-2014, 12:59 PM
Thats because Ubi has been doing it wrong.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLQJJO9VOMM

You can do everything shown in the video 10 times over in the Plantation Raids of the Freedom Cry DLC. That's why I really loved it. Might make a video and post it here. Amazing stuff, if you are in the mood for it.

RinoTheBouncer
05-07-2014, 01:01 PM
No social events
No multiplayer
No co-op
No tailing and eavesdropping, at least not in the same manner of the past 6 games.
No enemies that are aware that I’m tailing them of all the crowd that’s sticking to them.
No pointless collectibles (e.g. collect 230529450249624 animus fragments that only unlock a trophy)
No lame, self-contained, uninteresting story and characters that the Assassins and Templars labels are forcibly given to them.

Sushiglutton
05-07-2014, 01:03 PM
Thats because Ubi has been doing it wrong.


Maybe. I think there are some fundamental problems with tailing (for example) that are tough to solve. Such as that the player is being lead and that it's stealth under time pressure.

shobhit7777777
05-07-2014, 01:26 PM
Maybe. I think there are some fundamental problems with tailing (for example) that are tough to solve. Such as that the player is being lead and that it's stealth under time pressure.

Nope, not maybe. Most certainly.

Tailing isn't organic enough. The handholding and rigidity sap the joy out of it.

I like to think of the tailing issue a problem similar to the one plaguing AC1 with HUD on gameplay

Playing that game with the HUD on becomes a rote, mechanical, chore. It becomes increasingly repetitive and shatters the core feeling of actual investigation by virtue of exploring and coming across information gathering oppurtunities (Which again were no were near perfect). It was organic...it kept the player engaged. Heck, the social acceptability elements (AI) were there to make the whole act of moving through the kingdom interactive and engaging enough.

Player engagement is super low and player agency is non-existant in the current tailing mission format.

So yeah...the time constraint needs to get lost and so does the binary fail/pass conditions. Let it be tiered in terms of detection, let the player actually look for and follow the target without a massive dot hovering his/her head and let the player reacquire the target on losing him/her.

shobhit7777777
05-07-2014, 01:35 PM
You can do everything shown in the video 10 times over in the Plantation Raids of the Freedom Cry DLC. That's why I really loved it. Might make a video and post it here. Amazing stuff, if you are in the mood for it.

Yeah. AC4 has great stealth-action gameplay...but I'm kind of tired with the whole focus on Splinter Cell sneaking in natural environments. I'd like to become the urban Ninja again. There are just so many more opportunities to manipulate the game world in an urban setting.

Lets have huge "Plantations" except in a bustling city - Templar Dens in the middle of a market. Silently eliminate every guard...use the crowd....use distractions..blend in and pick them off.

Nothing is as thrilling as blending into a group in Revelations and walking through Templar territory....as you silently contemplate how you would pick off that rooftop sniper with your Master Assassin recruit and poison one of the roving patrols.
Its what a Leopard feels like - crouched in the grass...eyeing a tasty antelope...with the prey blissfully unaware of the murder machine hiding in the grass 10 feet in front of it

SixKeys
05-07-2014, 05:28 PM
I like the improvements Shohbit suggested to tailing missions. It would also be cool if you could actually miss a particular piece of information by failing. No desynch upon losing the target, no restarting from a convenient checkpoint. That particular target would simply disappear into the crowd and if you didn't locate them in time in Eagle Vision, the information they were carrying would be lost. A new target would then spawn elsewhere and you would have to track them down for similar (but not quite the same) information. This would be like a mixture of the eavesdropping structure in AC1 and Freedom Cry. In both titles, you could still complete the main mission even if you didn't complete every single information-gathering objective beforehand. You just needed 2 out of 4 or something. If you completed all of them, you got 4 different pieces of information (like maps or target description), but if you missed some of them, it wasn't a crucial failure.

luckyto
05-07-2014, 06:14 PM
I mainly want to see better AI, combat and mission design. The rest is just fluff, and i'm really open-minded to new ideas if they do them well. IF they do them well. So if there is any one thing that I don't want to see, it is something poorly developed or not fleshed out, fully tested, refined and polished. There's been far too many aspects of AC games that are not polished in the last few release.

Dev_Anj
05-08-2014, 09:29 AM
Nope, not maybe. Most certainly.

Tailing isn't organic enough. The handholding and rigidity sap the joy out of it.


These statements apply so well for so many aspects of the franchise.

Also, yes AC 1 feels like a much better game once you turn off the HUD.

Gin0r
05-08-2014, 10:26 AM
I like the improvements Shohbit suggested to tailing missions. It would also be cool if you could actually miss a particular piece of information by failing. No desynch upon losing the target, no restarting from a convenient checkpoint. That particular target would simply disappear into the crowd and if you didn't locate them in time in Eagle Vision, the information they were carrying would be lost. A new target would then spawn elsewhere and you would have to track them down for similar (but not quite the same) information. This would be like a mixture of the eavesdropping structure in AC1 and Freedom Cry. In both titles, you could still complete the main mission even if you didn't complete every single information-gathering objective beforehand. You just needed 2 out of 4 or something. If you completed all of them, you got 4 different pieces of information (like maps or target description), but if you missed some of them, it wasn't a crucial failure.

THIS! I loved the information gathering mission structure in Freedom Cry. Reminded me of AC1 in a very good way.

Sushiglutton
05-08-2014, 04:30 PM
Nope, not maybe. Most certainly.

Tailing isn't organic enough. The handholding and rigidity sap the joy out of it.

I like to think of the tailing issue a problem similar to the one plaguing AC1 with HUD on gameplay

Playing that game with the HUD on becomes a rote, mechanical, chore. It becomes increasingly repetitive and shatters the core feeling of actual investigation by virtue of exploring and coming across information gathering oppurtunities (Which again were no were near perfect). It was organic...it kept the player engaged. Heck, the social acceptability elements (AI) were there to make the whole act of moving through the kingdom interactive and engaging enough.

Player engagement is super low and player agency is non-existant in the current tailing mission format.

So yeah...the time constraint needs to get lost and so does the binary fail/pass conditions. Let it be tiered in terms of detection, let the player actually look for and follow the target without a massive dot hovering his/her head and let the player reacquire the target on losing him/her.


Love the confidence :)!

I agree with you that there is an issue with these types of missions being too gamey, which kills immersion (and since they are not fun to play either, there really isn't any reason for their existence). For example in eavesdroppeing missions I don't feel like that's what I'm doing. Instead I'm trying to get my character inside a circle while avoiding bleeps, meters filling and so on. Les HUD would help with this (and to compensate making the missions more forgiving).

However I do think my points still stand. I really hate in shooters (or any game) when the game tells me to "follow sergant BS". Then he leads me trhough some section of the map until he tells me to "take out the snipers in the window". Problem with tailing is that you get into a similar scenario almost by definition. An enemy walks some curve from point A to point B and your job is to follow it reasonably close. That's what tailing is! Comapare this to plantation type missions where a key (for example) has been hidden somewhere within an area. The latter is more fun based on geometry alone!


As to my other point: tailing is stealth on a timer, that is also impossible to escape. The enemy walks the curve at some given pace. If you stand still (or lose his position) for too long there must be a fail state. Again: That's what tailing is. Imo stealth on a timer is tough as nails to make fun. It goes against how most of us play stealth games, which is to get to a safe position and then carefully watch guard patterns and make up a plan.

Processing all the information at walking pace is too tough for me and I bet many other players. Ubi has realized this, which is why they use a breadcrumb design. However this increase the first problem I mentioned!


For these reasons my conclusion is that tailing is a mission type that should be used sparingly. Since it's tough to make it fun in terms of gameplay, I think they should focus on making it more immersion based. In other words easier (for example don't let the enemy walk into heavily guarded areas, or turn around as frequently), but at the same time less gamey (less enemies turning around and then standing scratching hteir heads like monkeys. No eavesdropping circle).

I played AC4 with no HUD and to me these missions were an absolute pain becasue it was close to impossible quickly enough break down all guards position/route and at then form a plan.



Edit: I forgot, but another design problem is too find the right pace for the enemy. Too fast and it becomes really hard. Too slow and the non-challenging parts become very tedious. Also IF you fail, replaying becomes a greaer chore.

AherasSTRG
05-08-2014, 04:56 PM
Oh, I also do not want see more requests for a crouching button.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-08-2014, 05:22 PM
You like running around near empty maps just to collect feathers, flags etc.? What do you enjoy about them?

And I didn't know that Hitman was about blowing up ships and forts, running around the rooftops of 18th century cities, fighting 20 people at once with swords, hiding in bushes, hunting animals etc etc. :p

Play hitman absolution - youll get what i mean ;)
And Idk why i like collecting feathers and flags... its the ONLY game in history that i enjoy finding collectibles in haha... (not really, I enjoyed them in battle for bikini bottom too)
Any other time i hate collectibles and view them as a cheap way to prolong a short game...
AC i dont feel that way for some reason.

GunnerGalactico
05-08-2014, 06:54 PM
Play hitman absolution - youll get what i mean ;)
And Idk why i like collecting feathers and flags... its the ONLY game in history that i enjoy finding collectibles in haha... (not really, I enjoyed them in battle for bikini bottom too)
Any other time i hate collectibles and view them as a cheap way to prolong a short game...
AC i dont feel that way for some reason.

Same here. I especially like doing that after beating the game. :p

Seriously, I don't want Ubisoft to remove that.

Megas_Doux
05-08-2014, 07:17 PM
What I want though, is more meaningful collectibles. Less but better.

I do like tailing mission, but not being excessively overdone.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-08-2014, 07:23 PM
What I want though, is more meaningful collectibles. Less but better.

I do like tailing mission, but not being excessively overdone.

The more the better, I say scrap the entire story..make a massive world and turn ac into a scavanger hunt :DDD

pirate1802
05-09-2014, 04:02 AM
Actually I loved the AC2-type tombs as well but I realize they'd not be as much fun with the present semi-automated parkour system. SO thats my first point.

1. less autommated le parkour
2. lame counter-based combat system. It is about time, past about time that we get a decent combat system. Seriously, its a joke in its present form.

Locopells
05-09-2014, 11:33 AM
Play hitman absolution - youll get what i mean ;)
And Idk why i like collecting feathers and flags... its the ONLY game in history that i enjoy finding collectibles in haha... (not really, I enjoyed them in battle for bikini bottom too)
Any other time i hate collectibles and view them as a cheap way to prolong a short game...
AC i dont feel that way for some reason.

I have and I don't - at the risk of going OT, I thought it was OK - bit like SC:Blacklist, a blend between the old and the new and probably what Hitman would've become, even without the break. We can take this to the 3rd Party thread if you want though.

I don't mind the collectable either. As long as they aren't excessive and you can earn some kind of in-game map for them (ACI is about my limit, hence I've only done them twice - and that because I lost my savegame from the first time...)

Dev_Anj
05-09-2014, 12:50 PM
I know about Absolution, although I haven't played it. I watched let's plays of it though. I don't get how Assassin's Creed 4 is anything like that though..

benroveno
05-09-2014, 12:53 PM
More advanced combat system. I mean, like defending, attacking, melees, combos, and more. I want the combat system in this game to be as realistic as possible. I mean, not as realistic as real human fight, but i want it to be like the combat system of Batman Arkham game. I also want Ubisoft to improve the stealth system in this game. It's really annoying when i see the player paralyze the enemies so easily in stealth mode, like pressing action button and the enemies will be paralyzed so easily. It would be great if the enemies can fight back or resist player's attack.

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Markaccus
05-09-2014, 01:21 PM
More advanced combat system. I mean, like defending, attacking, melees, combos, and more. I want the combat system in this game to be as realistic as possible. I mean, not as realistic as real human fight, but i want it to be like the combat system of Batman Arkham game. I also want Ubisoft to improve the stealth system in this game. It's really annoying when i see the player paralyze the enemies so easily in stealth mode, like pressing action button and the enemies will be paralyzed so easily. It would be great if the enemies can fight back or resist player's attack.

But isn't the whole idea of stealth to sneak up on someone, and sort them out without them having a chance to defend? If they were able to fight back, you would be detected all the time, meaning the stealth would effectively be removed from the game.

shobhit7777777
05-09-2014, 01:38 PM
However I do think my points still stand. I really hate in shooters (or any game) when the game tells me to "follow sergant BS". Then he leads me trhough some section of the map until he tells me to "take out the snipers in the window". Problem with tailing is that you get into a similar scenario almost by definition. An enemy walks some curve from point A to point B and your job is to follow it reasonably close. That's what tailing is! Comapare this to plantation type missions where a key (for example) has been hidden somewhere within an area. The latter is more fun based on geometry alone!



As to my other point: tailing is stealth on a timer, that is also impossible to escape. The enemy walks the curve at some given pace. If you stand still (or lose his position) for too long there must be a fail state. Again: That's what tailing is. Imo stealth on a timer is tough as nails to make fun. It goes against how most of us play stealth games, which is to get to a safe position and then carefully watch guard patterns and make up a plan.

Which is why insta-fail and time limit need to GTFO.


Edit: I forgot, but another design problem is too find the right pace for the enemy. Too fast and it becomes really hard. Too slow and the non-challenging parts become very tedious. Also IF you fail, replaying becomes a greaer chore.

They should do something like GTAV did with driving missions - I just hate all that BS and the game lets me skip them. So fail your tail twice...the game should let you skip ahead.
Tailing can be made interesting and it is just different enough to provide a breather between plantation like missions. Its not there to replace plantation missions. However its best to make them optional anyway


I played AC4 with no HUD and to me these missions were an absolute pain becasue it was close to impossible quickly enough break down all guards position/route and at then form a plan.

Agreed

Its annoying that tailing - a mission which should focus on social stealth often devolves into rooftop scrambles and bush-hiding. Target should be around civvies in urban environment. No insta fails - let us reacquire. No time limit. No breadcrumbs.

I'm telling you, Ubi has been doing it wrong...horribly wrong

Sushiglutton
05-09-2014, 03:00 PM
Riddle me this Bats: You are tailing someone who walks from point A to point B at some given pace. This means he reaches point B at a certain time. If we can not see him when this happens the mission has got to fail. In other words tailing is on a timer (note this is not the same timer as can be seen above enemies heads). How do you plan to avoid this?


Are you saying that if we lose the target they should stop somewhere until we have managed to find them again?

shobhit7777777
05-09-2014, 08:58 PM
Riddle me this Bats: You are tailing someone who walks from point A to point B at some given pace. This means he reaches point B at a certain time. If we can not see him when this happens the mission has got to fail. In other words tailing is on a timer (note this is not the same timer as can be seen above enemies heads). How do you plan to avoid this?


Are you saying that if we lose the target they should stop somewhere until we have managed to find them again?

Riddle already solved Sushi-G. Page 2, second post I made



1. Remove the 10 second LOS rule - Its BS. It should be more organic. Instead of the countdown and a frantic rush....the game should instead slide the player into a re-acquisition phase. Basically your target stops and moves into a blend group or does something natural - check out the wares at a shop, join in a conversation, smoke something, lean against a wall and check for tails.
Remove the marker from the target...let him/her blend. The green circle pops up on your map....get there and use your powers of observation to find the target. Eagle vision should pop up several possible targets - or if you're smart enough you can recognize your prey (because you aren't a complete twit, you have a fair idea of what he/she looks like)

2. 3 tiered recognition - Target sees you once - he/she is suspicious. The target will walk faster and check for tails more often. Best to take to the roofs or cut across parallel streets. He sees you a second time...suspicion confirmed. Target takes an alternate path through alleys, runs more often and avoids public areas. Roof tops are your best bet. You get spotted twice? Target beelines for the destination....might as well restart

Pace is actually not that big a deal. Neither is the issue of target hiding spots.

I'm Batman....without proper prep...I'm just a rich dude who does a lot of push-ups

VoXngola
05-09-2014, 10:57 PM
I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't want to have the optional objective system to return in AC:U in the way it is right now. For me personally, the only game that did the obtional objectives right was the game that introduced this system in the first place, ACB. The reason why is because we had a solid REASON as to why we should be motivated to get 100 % synch in missions. When you reach a certain synch rate with Ezio (I think it was something like 75 %), you get the memories Ezio suppresed: The Cristina missions.

Since ACR, we've been getting nothing for doing 100 % synch. Yeah it looks good when you look at the screen and can say "yay I'm 100 % synch with Edward!" but for me, this is not enough. I want a solid reason for optional objectives to exist.

ACfan443
05-09-2014, 11:05 PM
Great ideas for improving the tailing missions. I enjoy them personally, mainly because they're one of the few mission types which are still built around social stealth (in heavily populated areas anyway) - although social stealth itself in AC is stagnantly rudimentary.

Anyway, what I wouldn't like to see in AC: Unity?

Shamelessly padding the game with frivolous, boring side content to extend gameplay time, specifically referring to collectibles here. It's time consuming, it's tedious and just feels like something developers slap on at the end without putting much thought into. AC3 and AC4 ascended all planes of redundant fetch quests, with AC4 possibly earning the title of most collectibles in a video game ever. Viewing the map only to find animus fragment and chest icons littered across the Caribbean, and the sheer number of them I was required to accumulate in order to complete the progress tracker was incredibly overwhelming and depressing. It detracted from what was otherwise fantastic secondary content in a solid game.

I understand that the devs want us to roam every inch of their meticulously crafted worlds, but scattering a plethora of collectibles and having us play janitor's creed just isn't the right way to encourage exploration. Ignoring them is an option, but if you're like me and like to aim for 100% completion then there's no avoiding those pesky chests/flags/trinkets/feathers/fragments/*insert arbitrary item*.

I'd also like to see the end of gimmicky online features shoehorned into the single player campaign or tied to completion objectives. The meta game in AC4 was atrocious, it was obviously a reskin of the also uninspiring recruit upgrade system in ACB-AC3, but what made it particularly unbearable was the obligatory internet connection and PSN sign in requirement.

Shahkulu101
05-09-2014, 11:18 PM
Lol janitor's creed

That sums up my post-completion experience with AC4 perfectly - the most apt adaption of the title yet. Just about pipping "bankers creed" and "pirates creed" to the post.

ACfan443
05-09-2014, 11:24 PM
Lol janitor's creed

That sums up my post-completion experience with AC4 perfectly - the most apt adaption of the title yet. Just about pipping "bankers creed" and "pirates creed" to the post.

I usually like to mix it up with collectibles, side quests and main missions, but there were so many fragments and chests in AC4 that I (regrettably) left the majority of them to clear up at the end. Bad move.

Wolfmeister1010
05-10-2014, 12:01 AM
Scrap optional objectives altogether and replace with system where you record your mission and you friends can see it, rate it, and leave suggestions and tips.

They are never gonna let go of the Next Gen's emphasis on online capability. Might as well make the best of it.

SixKeys
05-10-2014, 12:24 AM
Scrap optional objectives altogether and replace with system where you record your mission and you friends can see it, rate it, and leave suggestions and tips.

They are never gonna let go of the Next Gen's emphasis on online capability. Might as well make the best of it.

This is actully not a bad idea. Just make it unobtrusive and optional. (Meaning no trophies attached or forced co-op crap.)

I-Like-Pie45
05-10-2014, 01:44 AM
Doggie

Locopells
05-10-2014, 06:33 PM
Lol janitor's creed

That sums up my post-completion experience with AC4 perfectly - the most apt adaption of the title yet. Just about pipping "bankers creed" and "pirates creed" to the post.


I usually like to mix it up with collectibles, side quests and main missions, but there were so many fragments and chests in AC4 that I (regrettably) left the majority of them to clear up at the end. Bad move.

Did that once with ACIII, and it ain't the same. I normally mop up as I go along (pun intended), otherwise it's a bit of a drag.


Doggie

Woof, woof, meow, hiss, scratch, scratch...

EDIT: FYI:

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/877821-Should-Optional-Mission-Objective-Return-in-AC-Unity

Assassin_M
05-10-2014, 09:17 PM
What I would not like to see..

immersion breaking, ugly blending filter...the circle above heads was fine
NPC groups AI, go back to how it was in AC III

SixKeys
05-10-2014, 11:05 PM
What I would not like to see..

immersion breaking, ugly blending filter...the circle above heads was fine
NPC groups AI, go back to how it was in AC III

I hated the circle, personally. The monochrome blending isn't perfect either, but I don't know what else they could do that isn't distracting.

Assassin_M
05-10-2014, 11:08 PM
I hated the circle, personally. The monochrome blending isn't perfect either, but I don't know what else they could do that isn't distracting.
I'd take the circle over the ugly blanket any day of the week

Megas_Doux
05-10-2014, 11:10 PM
Nothing for immersion breaking than the uber ugly AC IVīs eagle vision, ugh!

And I prefer the blending system in AC III also.

SixKeys
05-10-2014, 11:17 PM
I thought AC4's Eagle Vision was fine. I love tagging. AC3 had the worst EV, the colors were so dark and muted you could barely tell who was an enemy.

dxsxhxcx
05-10-2014, 11:53 PM
Nothing for immersion breaking than the uber ugly AC IVīs eagle vision, ugh!

I agree, if they'll insist with that they should make it (tagging) manual, that was probably the worst addition after Den Defense and 1st person...

Zrvan
05-11-2014, 04:27 AM
What do I not want in Unity?

For players to moan and complain and moan and complain that they want more X in the game, then moan and complain and moan and complain when X is added to the game.

Looking at any of your griping about how you wanted more stealth in AC4 and then complaining that it was about 70-80% stealth missions.

Megas_Doux
05-11-2014, 05:49 AM
I thought AC4's Eagle Vision was fine. I love tagging. AC3 had the worst EV, the colors were so dark and muted you could barely tell who was an enemy.

You really dislike almost everything in AC III haha.

Being honest, as far I can remember AC IIIīs eagle vision is not that different from the previous ones, whereas I find AC IVīs super bright, clunky and cartoonish, I hate it.

Dev_Anj
05-11-2014, 06:08 AM
Why would enemies, allies and points of interest being bright in Eagle Vision be a problem? Eagle Vision is supposed to help you figure out the environment and the intentions of the people, so it makes sense to make those brighter. I will say that AC 4 let you to tag too many people though..

RinoTheBouncer
05-11-2014, 09:40 AM
I liked the tagging in ACIV. I found it one of the things that make sense because when someone’s behind turns around a corner, they’re most likely in a known/predictable direction rather than lost in the void that it requires me to see them with my bare eyes to avoid desynchronizing. But I had hoped they made it more artistic and minimal cause seeing bring human beings walking through walls wasn’t really that fun.

I wanna add:

1. No Optional Objectives.
2. No Social Events.
3. No enemies who would be suspicious of me being on the same street they’re in even when they don’t see or hear me while they’re ok with other’s sticking up to their a**.
4. No more restricted areas where everyone is allowed inside except me.
5. No co-op.
6. No more eavesdropping or tailing, maybe we can make them as minimal as possible or re-invet the whole system because it’’s gotten way too boring.
7. No more pointless collectible items (e.g. collect a trillion Animus data fragments that don’t even unlock a cutscene).

jayjay275
05-11-2014, 10:09 AM
I couldn't agree more with the blending filter. It does look ugly and ACIII's blending was the best in the series, personally.

Xstantin
05-12-2014, 01:20 AM
MP characters as targets/contacts for the protagonist.