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RinoTheBouncer
04-30-2014, 10:30 PM
OK, now this isn’t a very serious thread but I always kept wondering if the guards in real life at that time period were a**holes or the game is just exaggerating for the sake of it?
I mean seriously, how does that law work in AC games? why is climbing on rooftops not ok? why should I be killed on sight if I climbed a rooftop after a few warnings? why am I being killed for stealing? killed for pushing a guard while running, unintentionally? like why should I die for the silliest things out there?

Before I even attempt to attack, they’re take out their swords and attack me... so does that law in that time periods rewards every “wrong” with death or what? and suddenly one guard chasing you from a rooftop turns to a whole army chasing after you. Did they have walkie-talkies to report me to everyone else? hell forget that, is it even worth it an army of 15 guards is chasing after one guy for being on a rooftop or pushing a guard?

I know some elements are added to the games for the sake of gameplay but lets be realistic...

cawatrooper9
04-30-2014, 10:47 PM
Honestly, I never thought about that before. It's kind of silly that climbing on a roof in twelfth century Damascus yields basically the same police action as climbing on top of a house in eighteenth century Boston.
Remember the side missions in AC1 where you could save townspeople in order to access local civilian aid? These people were often under attack for thievery, and it seemed like the guards were going to straight up kill them. However, if you listened to the dialogue, you could hear phrases such as "I'll have your hand for that!" (I heard these pretty much every minute or so, because I rarely bothered completing these side missions).
So, I guess, there is a variety of punishments, but the guards usually just defer to murdering criminals in the streets.

I-Like-Pie45
04-30-2014, 10:50 PM
I don't know

the people who program the animus are probably just jerks

SixKeys
05-01-2014, 03:34 AM
I think it can be justified in the context of each game, except maybe for AC2. In all the other games, there was some major conflict going on - various crusader factions fighting amongst each other, Redcoats vs. Patriots, Byzantines vs. Ottomans, pirates vs. the Crown. It makes sense that the law enforcement would want to keep anything to a minimum that might be cause for alarm among the general populace. You've got some suspicious sightings of a man armed to the teeth running across rooftops in a war-torn city? If people get it in their heads that there are thieves and murderers running loose during a time of warring factions and the law isn't doing anything about it, it could send the citizens into a panic and create anarchy.

AC2/ACB are the only games where this reasoning can't apply, as Italy during Ezio's youth was relatively peaceful, even under Cesare. The only explanation I have is that considering how many thieves there were in each city (heck, they even had their own guild), people would naturally assume that someone running on the rooftops could be a cat burglar.

And really, it's not so strange no matter how you look at it. Even today people will get concerned if they see someone performing dangerous tricks on rooftops. They might call the cops just to make sure the person doesn't hurt themselves. I'm no expert on the law in various countries, but I would imagine parkour is technically illegal in most places since it's so easy to get yourself killed. If the cops don't intervene, it's probably only due to lack of resources, just like how you're unlikely to get arrested for jaywalking.

Ureh
05-01-2014, 03:54 AM
I guess, for the most part, it's because they recognize that it's the Assassin on the posters (the ssi starts at suspicious, then when they recognize you they're like "It's you!"). Maybe they wouldn't have been so extreme if it was a regular person.

The rooftop archers probably draw their bows to intimidate you but if it was a normal civilian they wouldn't have fired the arrow. I think the devs just didn't bother to program the guards so that they don't attack couriers.

I-Like-Pie45
05-01-2014, 03:57 AM
No one calls the cops

Its part of the herd mentality

Someone else is going to do it, why go through the trouble yourself

RinoTheBouncer
05-01-2014, 10:37 AM
Honestly, I never thought about that before. It's kind of silly that climbing on a roof in twelfth century Damascus yields basically the same police action as climbing on top of a house in eighteenth century Boston.
Remember the side missions in AC1 where you could save townspeople in order to access local civilian aid? These people were often under attack for thievery, and it seemed like the guards were going to straight up kill them. However, if you listened to the dialogue, you could hear phrases such as "I'll have your hand for that!" (I heard these pretty much every minute or so, because I rarely bothered completing these side missions).
So, I guess, there is a variety of punishments, but the guards usually just defer to murdering criminals in the streets.

I agree with you.

I do remember the dialogues between guards and thieves in AC1. But I’m just surprised that future games removed that and now they’re just trying to kill me whether what I’ve done is worth it or not. Maybe it’s because they do recognize me from posters but still, even before the posters and when I’m incognito and the guards in streets do not recognize me, I get hunted for climbing a rooftop and it doesn’t matter if it’s a regular building or a castle.

It’s just weird. I know it may be done for gameplay purposes but I had hoped there would’ve been some sense in gameplay too.

ze_topazio
05-01-2014, 11:54 AM
In this day and age if you see someone climbing a building you might think it may be one of those crazy free-runners or something, in the past if you saw someone climbing a building, you could be sure that man was up no good, what good citizen casually climbs buildings and walks on the roofs?

GunnerGalactico
05-01-2014, 01:20 PM
Another thing I've noticed in AC1, the guards also chase you for walking fast or running ( high profile ). I suppose if were not up to no good or behaving suspiciously... there's no reason to be in a hurry and make the guards wary of you. In medieval times, the guards usually apprehend criminals by luck, there was no proper legal system... but the consequences were very severe if criminals were caught red-handed.

Hans684
05-01-2014, 01:35 PM
OK, now this isn’t a very serious thread but I always kept wondering if the guards in real life at that time period were a**holes or the game is just exaggerating for the sake of it?

I'm sure a lot of people abused their power back in the day, including guards.


I mean seriously, how does that law work in AC games?

I think you meant to say; "how does the law work?".


Why is climbing on rooftops not ok?

Why is it supposed to be ok? Ok, lets be realistic. Is climbing all over rooftops considered "normal"? Is climbing all over the rooftops with weapons and in weird robes "normal"?. People use don't run all over rooftops when they go for shopping, do they?


Why should I be killed on sight if I climbed a rooftop after a few warnings?

Key words here are rooftops(multiple number) and warnings(same), now what happens when people don't do as their told, they get punished. How? That depends on time and place, the law doesn't work the same as it did hundred years ago.


Why am I being killed for stealing?

Cause and action. You did a crime(again time and place(modern vs X years ago)), that crime is the cause you are being punished for. Just like money is the cause you committed the crime and the action is you stealing it. Your cause(money) made you steal(cause/action) and stealing is a crime so you get punished(action).


Killed for pushing a guard while running, unintentionally?

Power abuse, people and cause and action.


Like why should I die for the silliest things out there?

Power abuse, people and cause and action.


Before I even attempt to attack, they’re take out their swords and attack me... so does that law in that time periods rewards every “wrong” with death or what?

If some one pulls out a gun/sword, do you expect them to get out of it with a warning? The person is becoming a treaty that needs to be taken care of.


And suddenly one guard chasing you from a rooftop turns to a whole army chasing after you.

They are using an ability called screaming, it can do all kinds of thing in a city full of guards around every corner.


Did they have walkie-talkies to report me to everyone else?

Good one.


Hell forget that, is it even worth it an army of 15 guards is chasing after one guy for being on a rooftop or pushing a guard?

Screaming, power abuse, people and cause and action.


I know some elements are added to the games for the sake of gameplay but lets be realistic...

I am.

oliacr
05-01-2014, 02:01 PM
I know some elements are added to the games for the sake of gameplay but lets be realistic...

Here is the answer. I think.

Sushiglutton
05-01-2014, 02:03 PM
I wouldn't over think this lol (noticed you said you weren't serious). I bet there were no officers, armed with tiny knives, patrolling the rooftops of Havanna!

RinoTheBouncer
05-01-2014, 04:09 PM
I'm sure a lot of people abused their power back in the day, including guards.



I think you meant to say; "how does the law work?".



Why is it supposed to be ok? Ok, lets be realistic. Is climbing all over rooftops considered "normal"? Is climbing all over the rooftops with weapons and in weird robes "normal"?. People use don't run all over rooftops when they go for shopping, do they?



Key words here are rooftops(multiple number) and warnings(same), now what happens when people don't do as their told, they get punished. How? That depends on time and place, the law doesn't work the same as it did hundred years ago.



Cause and action. You did a crime(again time and place(modern vs X years ago)), that crime is the cause you are being punished for. Just like money is the cause you committed the crime and the action is you stealing it. Your cause(money) made you steal(cause/action) and stealing is a crime so you get punished(action).



Power abuse, people and cause and action.



Power abuse, people and cause and action.



If some one pulls out a gun/sword, do you expect them to get out of it with a warning? The person is becoming a treaty that needs to be taken care of.



They are using an ability called screaming, it can do all kinds of thing in a city full of guards around every corner.



Good one.



Screaming, power abuse, people and cause and action.



I am.

I donít know if you were being serious in all points or sarcastic but Iím well aware about the screaming ability. LOL
Anyway, I know the law back then was different but were all guards abusing their power and was that the case in every time period?

As I said, the idea of the thread was more about laughing at the whole thing but thanks for your detailed discussion :)

Rugterwyper32
05-01-2014, 04:41 PM
The law, you say?


http://youtu.be/2aaubVlhNK4

jayjay275
05-01-2014, 05:36 PM
Has nobody else thought it'd be sorta cool if we could get arrested?

Markaccus
05-01-2014, 05:51 PM
Has nobody else thought it'd be sorta cool if we could get arrested?

No. It might mean a prison sequence like connors, which was, imho, a suck-fest of epic proportions! I have never been so releived to be finnished with a memory sequence.

Hans684
05-01-2014, 09:24 PM
I donít know if you were being serious in all points or sarcastic but Iím well aware about the screaming ability. LOL
Anyway, I know the law back then was different but were all guards abusing their power and was that the case in every time period?

As I said, the idea of the thread was more about laughing at the whole thing but thanks for your detailed discussion :)

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/255955i456481721C0FE1CB/image-size/original?v=mpbl-1&px=-1

IWGCJoeCool
05-02-2014, 02:49 AM
i thought the premise was pretty plain... Socially Acceptable behavior, where you attracted no attention would bring you no difficulty. climbing a ladder to a roof was normal(save no NCP's were ever seen to be doing it), but climbing the side of the building was Unacceptable. meandering about on the rooftops is also suspicious, and had no call. Walking was OK, but running had two connotations...you were either running at, or running away, both suspicious and Unacceptable. the idea of warrants, arrest with Rights read to you, and Due Process are comparitive new concepts in actual practice. it was the wild west before there was even a wild west.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-02-2014, 04:18 AM
I'm fine with all of it except for the rooftop thing..that in particular has always bugged me....i mean run and bump into a cop these days and you get frisked lol....

Locopells
05-02-2014, 02:45 PM
However, if you listened to the dialogue, you could hear phrases such as "I'll have your hand for that!" (I heard these pretty much every minute or so, because I rarely bothered completing these side missions).

Always think of that when thinking about AC1...


If the cops don't intervene, it's probably only due to lack of resources, just like how you're unlikely to get arrested for jaywalking.

Unless you're an 80 year old guy (exceptional case I know, but still..)


Has nobody else thought it'd be sorta cool if we could get arrested?

Could work, but might be a bit too like GTA.

Dev_Anj
05-02-2014, 02:54 PM
How does the law work in historical periods? Well, the "law" in most of history has been the decree of a ruler/group of aristocrats.

Speaking of Assassin's Creed, it doesn't make any sense that guards should attack you for pushing them, though they would obviously get angry, but then it doesn't make sense that someone carries a variety of weapons in plain sight, and still blend in with normal people.

I think if they want to make the rules for being attacked clear, how about display us the rules in the form of a decree scroll? And obviously, getting caught in a restricted area with weapons would get you arrested, and if you resist they'd try to kill you.

Aphex_Tim
05-02-2014, 05:59 PM
What baffles me most is the restricted areas. Sometimes there's restricted areas with civilians just passing through without trouble, yet when you enter the area, every guard is suddenly after your head!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdSYhwLENvM

pirate1802
05-02-2014, 08:46 PM
Speaking of Assassin's Creed, it doesn't make any sense that guards should attack you for pushing them, though they would obviously get angry, but then it doesn't make sense that someone carries a variety of weapons in plain sight, and still blend in with normal people..

But it was not always like this right? I remember guards merely getting angry if you push them in AC2. I used to specifically push them to hear all the funny things they had to say, Bruno the donkey and all that. Now in AC4 they get super anal if I just push them and stand there, their meters would fill and they'd attack me.

Ureh
05-02-2014, 09:04 PM
@pirate1802 In AC2 if you bump into the npcs/guards twice in a row, the guards'll attack. For some reason they don't instantly recognize Ezio after the first bump unless he's notorious. But if you shove a guard to the ground while running, then they'll attack even if you were incognito, I think. But I thought AC4 notoriety kinda makes sense cause they start noticing that Edward is The Infamous Pirate. Pyrates beeware right? or something like that. Maybe the eyeliner gave it away. :P

Aphex_Tim
05-02-2014, 09:31 PM
Furthermore, I want guards in the next AC game to respond like this when you commit crimes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6cyDsuNx_U

Rugterwyper32
05-02-2014, 09:41 PM
Furthermore, I want guards in the next AC game to respond like this when you commit crimes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6cyDsuNx_U

Thank you for being in the same line of thinking. I do believe that is absolutely necessary and it would, undoubtedly, be a noticeable improvement to the series. Sylvester Stallone to voice the next AC protagonist confirmed.

RinoTheBouncer
05-04-2014, 10:03 AM
What baffles me most is the restricted areas. Sometimes there's restricted areas with civilians just passing through without trouble, yet when you enter the area, every guard is suddenly after your head!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdSYhwLENvM

THANK YOU FOR THIS!
I agree 100000000000% as well as when I’m tailing someone, everyone else in the street is ok to walk 2 inches away from them, while if I merely existed in that street, I’ll be suspicious. I mean why? is it the weapons? and why is walking among a passing crowd makes my weapons look more friendly? LOL.

jeffies04
05-05-2014, 12:10 PM
I have given this thought on one or two occasions while playing. I think this is a game thing. It bothers me sometimes, but not as much in AC.

I always just assumed that either, like mentioned before, you were recognized, and the guards were basically ready for a fight,
- or -
The whole scenario that we play in the game is just Edward or Ezio or whoever resisting arrest. Actually submitting to the watchmen and going peacefully is just not simulated.

Assassins creed games makes me look a lot of things up out of my own curiosity.. Historically speaking, of course they arrested people back then. Human rights and rights of prisoners weren't obviously what they are today, but they didn't usually just run their sword through you in the street in full view of the public without cause. There would still be a trial or a sentencing by a lord, magistrate, vice admiral, gonfaloniere, etc, etc, etc. and it's true death was a punishment for a lot of things you'd get paroled for today. In earlier time periods city watches were often comprised of local militia men or the actual military depending on where you were. Police forces resembling what we have today started forming about, and correct me if I'm wrong, the 19th century.

ze_topazio
05-05-2014, 12:30 PM
Another strange logic is how the guards usually ignore you, but when in tailing missions for some reasons guards think you are the most suspicious person in the world, must be their sixth sense of justice that lets them know I'm doing illegal things.

RinoTheBouncer
05-05-2014, 02:19 PM
Another strange logic is how the guards usually ignore you, but when in tailing missions for some reasons guards think you are the most suspicious person in the world, must be their sixth sense of justice that lets them know I'm doing illegal things.

I second that. Same goes for the ones you’re tailing themselves when they’re ok with everyone sticking up their a** while they notice me of all these people or those normal people passing through restricted areas and I’m the only one who isn’t allowed there.

Mr_Shade
05-05-2014, 02:21 PM
think it's called - 'being a game' - I'm guessing those things are meant to increase the challenge - and - make you think about your actions more…?


Or - maybe - Ubisoft just has a funny sense of humour.. :D

RinoTheBouncer
05-07-2014, 12:19 PM
think it's called - 'being a game' - I'm guessing those things are meant to increase the challenge - and - make you think about your actions more…?


Or - maybe - Ubisoft just has a funny sense of humour.. :D

How about giving Altair a magical flying broom and call it a game or sense of humor? :P

Locopells
05-07-2014, 12:37 PM
Ooh, Quidditch in AC confirmed!

Markaccus
05-07-2014, 01:17 PM
Ooh, Quidditch in AC confirmed!

"Altair! We cannot hope to defeat the Templars if you can't catch the snitch!"

Ureh
05-07-2014, 04:39 PM
Let me just get my Eagle mascot hat and enchant it to squawk.