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JustPlainQuirky
04-08-2014, 01:43 AM
People keep saying AC4 and AC3 are poorly optimized.

What does that mean?

How does that currently effect me if I have a PC with these specs?

http://i.imgur.com/Brv8NHe.png

How could that effect me in the future?

If I were to continue to buy AC games on steam, would I have to upgrade parts of my computer to resolve the problem? What parts? And how do I know by how much I should upgrade?


Thanks.

JustPlainQuirky
04-08-2014, 01:49 AM
^also can someone tell what kind of intel core is on the listed specs? i5 or i7? :confused:

edit:

Can I run watch dogs and Shadow of Mordor or are they poorly optimized too? (the requirements are out apparently)

YazX_
04-08-2014, 12:30 PM
the game is not created based on PC hardware, it was created based on consoles hardware, so when porting the game to PC, there are limitations and bottlenecks, those are caused by game's engine, as an example, consoles use 2 CPU cores, while PC can have 2-4-8-12-... cores, the game should scale all processing on all of those cores not limit it by 2 cores, this will cause bottlenecks and affects performance greatly.

Usually, most of games' developers do the same, but when porting the game to PC, either they replace the game's engine with one that is well optimized for PC and scale performance among all hardware or just enhance the existing game's engine.

so to sum it up, unoptimized games dont take full advantage of PC hardware, so you could have high end hardware parts and the game still performs bad same as low end PC.

now, you can run any unoptimized game , putting high end hardware might somehow compensate poor optimization, but sometimes bottlenecks are the same on high and low end systems, so it wont make a huge difference. the result of running unoptimized games is having to settle down with lower graphics settings in order for it to perform normal and at least maintain 60 FPS, if it was optimized, you can run it maxed out even on mid-range hardware depending on game's graphics.

Mr_Shade
04-08-2014, 12:39 PM
^also can someone tell what kind of intel core is on the listed specs? i5 or i7? :confused:

edit:

Can I run watch dogs and Shadow of Mordor or are they poorly optimized too? (the requirements are out apparently)

If you mean the specs you posted - it's a AMD CPU - so not really comparable with an Intel chip set - most specs for games would list the similar AMD version though - so you need to check etc

Have a look at this to see where that chip stands compared to other i7's [it's about half the speed of a i7]

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+FX-4300+Quad-Core


And it's a bit slower than a i5
http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/435/AMD_FX-Series_FX-4300_vs_Intel_Core_i5_i5-3570K.html


Re: Performance of games yet to release - I don't think anyone has a crystal ball - so it's far too early to say - you can only use the requirements as a guide - and they are not always guaranteed to give you 1080p at 60FPS maxed out..

PC gaming - is not just making sure your hardware meets the min/rec specs- you need to update drivers and maintain the PC in order to get good performance - PC gaming, is something you need to invest both time and money in, - since you need to learn how to streamline systems and tweak settings to get the best out of your hardware.

Which is why many goto Consoles - since they 'just work'

Tully__
04-08-2014, 12:53 PM
There's another factor to optimization. Some games are just poorly optimised, period. When a programmer writes a game, he uses a language that humans (with computer science degrees) can easily understand. They then use a type of program called a compiler to convert the human friendly code into something the console / PC can easily use, the result looking something like this:
http://ict.ribbweb.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/binary-code.png

Though much better than they used to be, compilers still end up with some redundant instructions that might go something like this (after translation back in to something we normal people understand):

Read input from controller.
Go to the store room and put input figures on shelf B.
Go to the store room and get latest controller inputs from shelf B.
Calculate new character direction.
Go to the store room and put character direction on shelf H.
Go to the store room and get character direction from shelf H.
Re-orient character.
Send to GPU.
As you can see, there are four unnecessary trips to the store room (memory) in this routine, which slows things down. General optimization detects and removes unnecessary memory reads and writes and other similar in-efficiencies. A well optimised program of any sort (not just games) performs very much better, sometimes orders of magnitude better than programs that are not optimised.

As YAZ_H has pointed out, converting code from console to PC can also introduce such in-efficiencies, especially converting from PS3 to PC or vice versa as the hardware architecture and operating system is completely different and what is optimal on one may be as plainly silly as my example above on the other.

AherasSTRG
04-08-2014, 02:42 PM
Can I run watch dogs and Shadow of Mordor or are they poorly optimized too? (the requirements are out apparently)

You cannot know if a game is poorly optimised until it is out and we can see it on our PCs. The current Watch Dogs requirements are as listed in the official site (but I believe they will change prior to release). Shadow of Mordor's requirements have not been released, because the game is not finished yet. Usually, requirements are announced 1 or 2 months before the eventual release. Any requirements you see on Steam are worst case scenario (some kind of warranty that you will not start crying on Steam's forums about lieing to you about the requirements.
Examples of hellishly optimised games are: Darksiders 2, Assassin's Creed 3 and GTA4.

Edit: Oh, I see that the Shadow of Mordor requirements are already out. Well, it's still 6 months before release... That's odd. Seems like the guys over at Monolith do have a crystal ball after all. Anyway, I predict that Shadow of Mordor will play like Watch_Dogs. I 'd wait to see the performance of that to be certain. Also... 40 Gigabytes of hard drive space??? That Nemesis system keeps raising the bar. I just hope this game won't end up smacking back on the floor.
But then again, I remember Battlefield 4's and Call of Duty Ghosts' requirements. The requirement for Ghosts was a GTX 760 xD. And with one of those you can get 70 fps average on utlra. Those clowns later said that the recommendation was for 1440p. I guess they did it to boost the sales and pre-orders on consoles.

YazX_
04-08-2014, 03:24 PM
There's another factor to optimization. Some games are just poorly optimised, period. When a programmer writes a game, he uses a language that humans (with computer science degrees) can easily understand. They then use a type of program called a compiler to convert the human friendly code into something the console / PC can easily use,

true, i didnt mention this because i believe Ubisoft Devs are skilled to pull out something like AC, Watch dogs, Splinter Cell,..... but PC ports are limited because of old gen consoles, hopefully with the next gen, we will see more optimized PC games.

JustPlainQuirky
04-08-2014, 08:11 PM
Thanks for all the information everyone. :o

So basically if a game is poorly optimized I can't do much about it?

And when you guys say AC3 is poorly optimized, does that mean it lags and stuff on normal settings or max settings? Would I run it fine on regular settings on the pc i listed or would it have hiccups?

Also what is a driver and why do i need to update it?

GunnerGalactico
04-08-2014, 08:29 PM
Thanks for all the information everyone. :o

So basically if a game is poorly optimized I can't do much about it?

And when you guys say AC3 is poorly optimized, does that mean it lags and stuff on normal settings or max settings? Would I run it fine on regular settings on the pc i listed or would it have hiccups?

Also what is a driver and why do i need to update it?

A driver is software in your PC that allows the hardware to function properly. If you don't have that- the video card, speakers or printer will not work.
The video card effects your on-screen display.

The reason why it is necessary to update is because, new games are always made with the latest up-to-date software and might not be compatible with drivers that are out-of-date.

JustPlainQuirky
04-08-2014, 09:15 PM
A driver is software in your PC that allows the hardware to function properly. If you don't have that- the video card, speakers or printer will not work.
The video card effects your on-screen display.

The reason why it is necessary to update is because, new games are always made with the latest up-to-date software and might not be compatible with drivers that are out-of-date.

Oh ok. So how do I know what driver I should get. is the one on my list fine?


edit:

oh and how often should it be upgraded

GunnerGalactico
04-08-2014, 09:24 PM
Oh ok. So how do I know what driver I should get. is the one on my list fine?

That will depend on the game specifications and requirements. You might find that information on the back of the cover of your game.

Looks like you have a good enough system. Did you purchase a new PC just recently?

JustPlainQuirky
04-08-2014, 09:31 PM
haven't bought one yet. Im saving up for one with those specs. Most I can afford for a custom PC.

GunnerGalactico
04-08-2014, 09:42 PM
haven't bought one yet. Im saving up for one with those specs. Most I can afford for a custom PC.

In my country, getting a top-of-the-range PC with the best specs really costs a fortune. :p

I'm not much of a PC gamer- it is really high maintenance to upgrade the software for gaming.

JustPlainQuirky
04-08-2014, 09:49 PM
So I really just have to worry about graphics card and drivers usually?

How often does th average person upgrade these?

GunnerGalactico
04-08-2014, 09:59 PM
So I really just have to worry about graphics card and drivers usually?

How often does th average person upgrade these?

* My bad, it's actually called Graphic Driver. It is updated atleast every month.

You don't have to worry too much about that.

AherasSTRG
04-08-2014, 10:34 PM
So I really just have to worry about graphics card and drivers usually?

How often does the average person upgrade these?

I see you are thinking of getting an Nvidia GTX 750 Ti. Nvidia releases new drivers roughly every 1 month and a half. However, once you get your PC, you can visit the official Nvidia PC graphics cards site (geforce.com) and download the program Geforce Experience. Geforce Experience is an invaluable tool for the Nvidia gamer. It automatically searches for new drivers and downloads them. It then asks you whether you want to install them. Just by clicking on the message, the drivers are installed automatically. Also, Geforce Experience scans your hard drive for games that are optimised for Nvidia cards and then proposes optimal game settings (40 to 60 fps at all times).
In the link below, you can see some of the most important Geforce Experience functionalities: http://www.geforce.com/geforce-experience

JustPlainQuirky
04-09-2014, 09:56 PM
I see you are thinking of getting an Nvidia GTX 750 Ti. Nvidia releases new drivers roughly every 1 month and a half. However, once you get your PC, you can visit the official Nvidia PC graphics cards site (geforce.com) and download the program Geforce Experience. Geforce Experience is an invaluable tool for the Nvidia gamer. It automatically searches for new drivers and downloads them. It then asks you whether you want to install them. Just by clicking on the message, the drivers are installed automatically. Also, Geforce Experience scans your hard drive for games that are optimised for Nvidia cards and then proposes optimal game settings (40 to 60 fps at all times).
In the link below, you can see some of the most important Geforce Experience functionalities: http://www.geforce.com/geforce-experience


Oh okay thanks. And it's free?

TheDboy2012
04-10-2014, 04:53 AM
The game is unoptimized because people are getting low fps on PC's that normally play games at high on 60fps.

For instance, I have an HD 7850 OC, an i5 processor and the game will drop to 50 on low and 20 fps on max.

No other game drops that low except Crysis 3 on very high or Tomb Raider with TressFX hair. WAY better graphics than AC4.

I get 60fps on high in BF3, Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite and tons of new games.

But on low I drop to 50 fps in this game.

So yeah, it is unoptimized.

BF3 on max never drops below 30fps. Crysis 3 on the level with all the grass physics, NEVER drops below 30fps at 1080p.

Game is unoptimized.

YazX_
04-10-2014, 07:06 AM
Oh okay thanks. And it's free?

yes, each and every PC hardware has a driver, those drivers are supplied with their future updates for free and can be downloaded through manufacturer website. if you didnt install the driver, the device will be using generic windows driver and will not work properly, if there is no generic windows driver, then the device will not be recognized at all.

THISaint
04-11-2014, 06:54 PM
Game is optimized well. I'm running GTX 760 - 16GB Ram. Game has only problems at the beginning of the game - while it is raining but few restarts of the game made it to be fixed.

TheDboy2012
04-12-2014, 12:55 PM
Game is optimized well. I'm running GTX 760 - 16GB Ram. Game has only problems at the beginning of the game - while it is raining but few restarts of the game made it to be fixed.
No, it's not optimized.

What's your idea of optimized? Dropping to 50fps on minimum on a PC that can play Crysis 3 on high at 30fps? That's not my idea of optimized.

I could see if I had a slow processor or a low end card; but 50fps on low is ridiculous for an HD 7850 and i5 setup.

Just because it's playable at 30fps on mid-end hardware, doesn't mean it's optimized.

I mean geez; not even Crysis 3 drops to 20fps on high. Yet, this game drops to 25fps, yet doesn't have as much going on as Crysis 3 or better graphics than Crysis 3?

Your idea of optimized and my idea of optimized are different.

On this setup I should be getting a constant 60fps on medium to high settings like in every other modern game.