PDA

View Full Version : Emil with nose cannon



Destroyer110
03-01-2004, 10:08 PM
Did the BF 109 E ever have a nose mounted cannon as well as wing cannons.

Just dreaming ...

http://home.iprimus.com.au/hastati/bz.jpg

Destroyer110
03-01-2004, 10:08 PM
Did the BF 109 E ever have a nose mounted cannon as well as wing cannons.

Just dreaming ...

http://home.iprimus.com.au/hastati/bz.jpg

Franzen
03-01-2004, 10:18 PM
I'm not sure but it seems to me that it was in the plan but never a reality, henceforth the hope in the prop center. I think I read this last year in a previous posting. Like I said, not sure. But it's a very nice dream.

Fritz

chris455
03-01-2004, 11:31 PM
No.

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

MustangWZI
03-01-2004, 11:36 PM
Check the aircraft viewer it elaborates a little more on this subject.

http://server4.uploadit.org/files2/140104-sig5.JPG
Like the moon over
The day, my genious and brawn
Are lost on these fools
~Haiku

MustangWZI
03-01-2004, 11:43 PM
According to it only the Bf-109 E-2's and E-3's had the 20mm cannon in the nose hub.

http://server4.uploadit.org/files2/140104-sig5.JPG
Like the moon over
The day, my genious and brawn
Are lost on these fools
~Haiku

butch2k
03-01-2004, 11:50 PM
There were no 109 with nose mounted armament until the 109F. While it was tested with the 109 WkNr 988 it did not prove satisfying because the MG17 mounted there was not reliable. Following the Berta, the Caesar, Dora and Emil had an oil tank placed behind the engine preventing the mounting of a cannon.

MustangWZI
03-02-2004, 12:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by butch2k:
There were no 109 with nose mounted armament until the 109F. While it was tested with the 109 WkNr 988 it did not prove satisfying because the MG17 mounted there was not reliable. Following the Berta, the Caesar, Dora and Emil had an oil tank placed behind the engine preventing the mounting of a cannon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then why does it say this.

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MustangWZI-109E.JPG

http://server4.uploadit.org/files2/140104-sig5.JPG
Like the moon over
The day, my genious and brawn
Are lost on these fools
~Haiku

Franzen
03-02-2004, 12:29 AM
Oooooo! Could this be the beginning of a beautiful patch?

Fritz

Rajvosa
03-02-2004, 12:48 AM
I've just remembered something I read a long time ago. The hole in the spinner is not for the cannon barrel, but an air-intake for cold air that was used to cool the generator. I hope this is somewhere near the truth! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

[This message was edited by Rajvosa on Tue March 02 2004 at 01:32 AM.]

Dmitri9mm
03-02-2004, 12:53 AM
I have read this in a book I have:
It seems that the first canon-armed bf 109 (the E-3 model) was planned to have a low ROF engine mounted MG FF in addition to the two in the wings. However this configuration had a bad tendency to jam after one or two shots. It was therefore only built into the earliest of the E-3 aircraft, witch started to appear towards the end of 1939, and on most of these aircraft the nosegun was removed to save weight.
The hub-fireing 20mm MG FF was extremely rare on the battlefield at the time of the battle of brittain.

Hope that could serve as an explanation for why this has not been included in Il2.

pinche_bolillo
03-02-2004, 12:57 AM
it is my understanding that the E-2 had the nose gun, but only saw limited production and was only used by one squad. too lazy to look it up. I remember reading about it in tony williams book flying guns

butch2k
03-02-2004, 02:28 AM
The object viewer is wrong on several subjects, unfortunately my corrections got lost when Oleg email crashed before Il-2 release and no correction where made afterwards.
After 10 years of research i have no trace of even a single Emil tested with a nose gun. While it was planned the change was never made because the DB601 required the Oil tank to be placed in a specific way and mounting it in the wing was not a possibility according to DB documents.
The E-2 was not produced, the so often refered to picture of CE+BM is not showing a cannon protruding from the spinner but a towing device.

Arm_slinger
03-02-2004, 03:36 AM
The 109 E-7 had one as well

T4T recruitment officer

Sim lover?, want something new? Then look at "Target for Tonight the definitive night bombing simulation ever, featuring the RAF's Bomber Command.

Got you interested? Look for us here: www.nightbomber.com/forums (http://www.nightbomber.com/forums)

butch2k
03-02-2004, 03:55 AM
Nope just check the E-7 manual for instance.
Manual says E-7 : 2x MG17 cowl mounted + 2x MG-FFM in the wings and E-8 : 4x MG-17.

Arm_slinger
03-02-2004, 04:24 AM
Manual? as in the specs etc of the aircraft?

I'll post a picture of the aircraft next week when i can get hold of the reference

T4T recruitment officer

Sim lover?, want something new? Then look at "Target for Tonight the definitive night bombing simulation ever, featuring the RAF's Bomber Command.

Got you interested? Look for us here: www.nightbomber.com/forums (http://www.nightbomber.com/forums)

butch2k
03-02-2004, 05:38 AM
Yes as in the specs of the aircraft http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Moreover most E-7s did not have the hollow spinner.

SUPERAEREO
03-02-2004, 06:54 AM
The E-2 version was be produced at the same time as the E-1 and E-3, and was to have a MG-FF firing through the propeller boss. Unfortunately tests showed this installation to be unreliable and extremely prone to jamming, so much so that the E-2 never entered production in series.

S!

butch2k
03-02-2004, 07:08 AM
As i said No 109E prototypes that i know of where tested with an MG-FF mounted as a motor cannon. That said i only went through a few dozens of microgfilms and several tenth of thousand pages of 109 related documents. So i may obviously have missed it but i doubt it, if anyone have access to a first hand document showing tests of an MG-FF engine mounted on a 109E i would greatly appreciate it.
So far the only document i found comes from DB and says that they disapprove mounting of a cannon because they could not guarantee the engine will work properly afterward because of oil troubles.

Flamin_Squirrel
03-02-2004, 07:25 AM
The 190E-3 had a DB601Aa engine, giving it provision for hub firing cannon, although in practice it was rarely used. The engine mounted cannon was dispensed with in the E-4 (instead improving the wing cannon fire rate) and not reintroduced till the F-1.

butch2k
03-02-2004, 07:37 AM
The DB601Aa like the DB601A had provision for an engine mounted cannon but it was not used as i mentionned before. Note that the DB601Aa was an export version of the DB601A-1 using the lower alt blower of the DB601A-0 but with a higher CR than the A-1.
It seems that contrary to what i believed some of the DB601Aa (DB WkNr 10500 to 11500 IIRC)originally for export ended in Luftwaffe service as underlined by the recovery of the E-7 in Russia.