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View Full Version : a thought about the FW and the Wildcat



Ankanor
08-30-2004, 07:04 AM
Today, in the middle of my exam, as I was struggling to solve the taask, a quick thought crossed my mind: Actually, my beloved FW190(the early variants) has many similarities with the Wildcat, which I will also fly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif once PF is out. So, basicly, what do we have?

1st, both the FW and the F4F lacked the maneuverability of their opponents(Yaks and Spits for the FW and Zero for the Grumman). Yet the had a roll advantage and their diving characteristics were better than the enemies'.

2nd, both the Wurger and the Wildcat are considerably tougher than their opponents, their rugged design allowing them to sustain greater damage in combat while still being able to fight( I am talking RL here, not the 1 ton of bricks you receive after being hit in the wing by a couple of peashooters http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif).
Also their superior firepower allow them to destroy an opponent with one burst. And then we come to the last

3rd, teamwork. If I am not mistaken, what lay in the core of the famous Thatch Weave was the rugged structure of the Wildcat. As Thatch pointed out in an interview(guess where did I find it, on the CFS2 website http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif) the whole idea was to stop thinking about the guy poundering you and try to shoot down the Zero on your buddy's tail, and in turn rely on somebody else to help you. and that seems to concur to what I have heard and seen concerning the FW190- alone you are not a serious threat, but get a wingman and things turn upside down.

I would like to hear your opinion on that matter, both CFS2 Wildcat pilots and Wurger riders. I have just begun to discover the specifics of the FW190, and I am not the one to talk about it... The wildcat I have yet to wait for http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

O, how I want to hold you,
To feel your breath
And hear your laughter in my ears.
To look into your eyes
And see myself in there.
Caress you with my lips.
To hold your hands in mine
And find the hidden smile in your dimple
That makes you irresistible
And stops the breathing in my chest.
To be with you when you are weeping,
To wipe away the tears and take away the sorrow.
To watch you while you are sleeping
Like there is no tomorrow.

And with a tender kiss to wake you up.

Essen,23.02.2004 20:53

Ankanor
08-30-2004, 07:04 AM
Today, in the middle of my exam, as I was struggling to solve the taask, a quick thought crossed my mind: Actually, my beloved FW190(the early variants) has many similarities with the Wildcat, which I will also fly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif once PF is out. So, basicly, what do we have?

1st, both the FW and the F4F lacked the maneuverability of their opponents(Yaks and Spits for the FW and Zero for the Grumman). Yet the had a roll advantage and their diving characteristics were better than the enemies'.

2nd, both the Wurger and the Wildcat are considerably tougher than their opponents, their rugged design allowing them to sustain greater damage in combat while still being able to fight( I am talking RL here, not the 1 ton of bricks you receive after being hit in the wing by a couple of peashooters http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif).
Also their superior firepower allow them to destroy an opponent with one burst. And then we come to the last

3rd, teamwork. If I am not mistaken, what lay in the core of the famous Thatch Weave was the rugged structure of the Wildcat. As Thatch pointed out in an interview(guess where did I find it, on the CFS2 website http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif) the whole idea was to stop thinking about the guy poundering you and try to shoot down the Zero on your buddy's tail, and in turn rely on somebody else to help you. and that seems to concur to what I have heard and seen concerning the FW190- alone you are not a serious threat, but get a wingman and things turn upside down.

I would like to hear your opinion on that matter, both CFS2 Wildcat pilots and Wurger riders. I have just begun to discover the specifics of the FW190, and I am not the one to talk about it... The wildcat I have yet to wait for http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

O, how I want to hold you,
To feel your breath
And hear your laughter in my ears.
To look into your eyes
And see myself in there.
Caress you with my lips.
To hold your hands in mine
And find the hidden smile in your dimple
That makes you irresistible
And stops the breathing in my chest.
To be with you when you are weeping,
To wipe away the tears and take away the sorrow.
To watch you while you are sleeping
Like there is no tomorrow.

And with a tender kiss to wake you up.

Essen,23.02.2004 20:53

jurinko
08-30-2004, 07:13 AM
wildcat was a **** - slow as zero and much less maneuvrable in low-med speed. it could only dive better.
Fw 190 was among the fastest planes when they appeared, a big difference.

---------------------
Letka_13/Liptow @ HL

BSS_CUDA
08-30-2004, 07:24 AM
the Wildcat and the 190 are NOTHING alike. the Cat was slow tough yes but slow and it was also fairly manuverable. not as good as the Zero, but better than most. the 190 is very fast and tough but in no way will it turn like the cat

*****************************
BSS_CUDA
Co-Founder of my family
Black Sheep Executive Officer
USN retired

http://img42.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/CUDA_.jpg
blacksheep214.com (http://blacksheep214.com)
That was some of the best flying I've seen yet! right up to the part where you got killed.
you NEVER NEVER leave your wingman.

Jester : TopGun

p1ngu666
08-30-2004, 07:35 AM
i thatch weave or similer onwhine atm in any plane really http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
<123_GWood_JG123> NO SPAM!

Fehler
08-30-2004, 07:47 AM
I dont think the original poster was comparing the actual planes (Wildcat and Wurger) but instead their fighting styles.

I agree, for the wildcat to be effective you will probably have to keep the speed up and look to fight when you have the advantage. You will also have to be patient enough to know when you are losing the advantage and extend away to fight another day.

As far as maneuverability is concerned, I disagree with the statement that the 190 was not maneuverable. It was. It was not a good turner, but rudder and roll response was one of the best in WWII, thus it was highly maneuverable. The problem is that games like FB make people think that dogfighting occurs on the 2d plane and not in the 3d. I can turn inside of Spits regularly just for this reason. An inexperienced Spit pilot with turn on a flat plane, and I use the 190 to high yo-yo or vector roll inside of his path. (That's one of the reasons you see so many people cry about the Spit's turn rate, and/or how well the 109 turns. In fact, they are looking at result, not tactics.

Against their respective opposition, the Wildcat and the 190 are very similar in fighting style IMHO. It will be very interesting to see the allied guys fly their American planes after getting used to out turning their German counterparts.

I believe you will see a whole host of complaints until they understand how to use proper energy tactics and B&Z the Japanese aircraft.

I for one, am planning to fly Japanese. Flying Allied to me, is boring, because you already know what the outcome of the engagement should be (The Allies won the war, remember?) But changing fighting styles from Axis (FW 190) to turning planes with poor dive characteristics and low wing loading will be the main challenge.

It will be like everything is upside down from what it is now. And, although I like American planes and a B&Z approach to dogfighting, I get the feeling that there will be so many American flyers that finding a good fight will be very difficult. Time will tell, of course... I am looking forward to it, and looking forward to flying with a whole different style!

McTriggerhappy
08-30-2004, 08:04 AM
You know what CFS2 says? One of the Wildcat's advantages is "good diving", which is a lame way of saying it has a sucky engine

Ankanor
08-30-2004, 08:26 AM
Yes, Fehler, exactly.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. There is no point comparing both planes, they are quite different, yet the tactics they had to use against their enemies look quite the same to me.

I read in a book about the Corsair that after the captured Zero was tested, rule #1 for american pilots became "keep your speed up", namely higher than 480kmh/300 mph, where the control surfaces of the Zero would "freeze"
and also, a popular saying was that around 300 kmh, a zero will glue to your tail before you blink. Any allied pilot who entered a slow turnfight against a Zero or even worse, an Oscar was playing a russian roulette with an automatic pistol.(got it? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

O, how I want to hold you,
To feel your breath
And hear your laughter in my ears.
To look into your eyes
And see myself in there.
Caress you with my lips.
To hold your hands in mine
And find the hidden smile in your dimple
That makes you irresistible
And stops the breathing in my chest.
To be with you when you are weeping,
To wipe away the tears and take away the sorrow.
To watch you while you are sleeping
Like there is no tomorrow.

And with a tender kiss to wake you up.

Essen,23.02.2004 20:53

Cajun76
08-30-2004, 08:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:


Against their respective opposition, the Wildcat and the 190 are very similar in fighting style IMHO. It will be very interesting to see the allied guys fly their American planes after getting used to out turning their German counterparts.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been hearing this statement, or a variant of it for awhile now. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif P-47 jocks don't out turn anyone unless at high speed or the opponent has zero energy. (Perhaps you mean Yaks and Spits. I also use the high yo yo when I have superior energy on Spit and Yaks, works quite well) I'm looking forward to taking a Wildcat up against Zeros though. It's already pretty cool going at it with Zeros and P-40s, flying either one. Either one, flown well by both pilots makes for a very good, historical egagement, imo. For me, flying the Zero against a P-40 is much harder than the reverse. Gotta keep ur speed high and dont' blow your energy to keep the P-40 competitive. A real challenge, and I like it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Good hunting,
(56th)*Cajun76
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/CajunsSig03.gif (http://www.airwarfare.com/)&lt;Click for Mudmovers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
If you have trouble hitting your objective, your secondary targets are here and here,
an accordian factory and a mime school. Good luck, gentlemen. - Admiral Benson Hot Shots

Chuck_Older
08-30-2004, 10:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by McTriggerhappy:
You know what CFS2 says? One of the Wildcat's advantages is "good diving", which is a lame way of saying it has a sucky engine<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The engine isn't bad, rather, the Wildcat was too heavy- which is one reason it dove so well. The Ironworks was a pretty apt nickname for Grumman

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

Philipscdrw
08-30-2004, 11:11 AM
If I was flying off carriers in the PTO in 1942 I'ld prefer armour plate and self-sealing fuel tanks and structural redundancy to high agility, thanks.

PhilipsCDRw
Grand Stenographer of the Boards.

View Cpt. Eric Brown's review of FB here (http://www.aerosociety.com/raes/news/SimReview.pdf) and discuss it here. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=309109534&r=875101634#875101634)

"Nietzsche is dead." - God.

horseback
08-30-2004, 11:59 AM
So, how'd you do on your exam?

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

BlakJakOfSpades
08-30-2004, 12:31 PM
perhaps the hellcat and 190 would be a closer match?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v344/BlakJakofSpades/sig2.jpg

Ankanor
08-30-2004, 12:34 PM
I failed on purpose http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif. It was an important one and I just can't allow myself to pass with a bad mark. I got two more tries

O, how I want to hold you,
To feel your breath
And hear your laughter in my ears.
To look into your eyes
And see myself in there.
Caress you with my lips.
To hold your hands in mine
And find the hidden smile in your dimple
That makes you irresistible
And stops the breathing in my chest.
To be with you when you are weeping,
To wipe away the tears and take away the sorrow.
To watch you while you are sleeping
Like there is no tomorrow.

And with a tender kiss to wake you up.

Essen,23.02.2004 20:53