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View Full Version : Will Unity be the game where we finally get our scabbard back?



Calvarok
03-29-2014, 06:51 AM
So we've been debating and predicting all sorts of lore things and gameplay advances, but are we forgetting the most exciting potential for an AC game on Next Gen only?

When will we see the return to AC1's proper depiction of how to carry a sword? I understand that, like many neat visual things in AC1, it was a fancy bit of excess that probably impacted performance and was real glitchy. However, isn't new hardware the best time to do things that caused trouble before? AC3 gave us a return to cloth physics and dynamically moving objects on the character's body. We've also seen endless variations of gun holsters. Why not give us a SWORD holster, as was the custom of the time?

Give us Scabbards or give us death!

(full disclosure, this thread was made in hopes that on the off-chance that ubi has forgotten about scabbards, they remember that we love em.)

RatonhnhakeFan
03-29-2014, 07:06 AM
Would be great and after seeing cloth/material physics in The Order 1886, my expectations are high for true next-gen games

Calvarok
03-29-2014, 07:10 AM
Would be great and after seeing cloth/material physics in The Order 1886, my expectations are high for true next-gen games
Well, to be fair The Order is rendering a really narrow and linear path rather than an open city. It better at least look good.

Farlander1991
03-29-2014, 07:23 AM
I understand that, like many neat visual things in AC1, it was a fancy bit of excess that probably impacted performance and was real glitchy.

The problem would not be glitchiness per se (and it didn't really impact performance), but the fact that a unique scabbard would be required for each one. For example, AC1 has like five scabbards in total (for three swords and two knives), ACII (where scabbards disappeared) would have required like 25 approximately. (And it's also important to note that not only the main character gets one, but also all NPCs with weapons... then there's also a disarming thing, what if you don't have a sword and then disarm an opponent with a sword, does the scabbard just magically appear? What if you have a mace, lose it in battle with a Brute, and then pick up a sword after battle, what happens with the mace holster that would've been on your character?)

People tend to think 'well, it's just scabbards and Ubisoft has hundreds of employees, surely they can do that', and, well, kinda, but scabbards have an ironically unproportional amount of work related to them., so it's understandable when that this particular detail is not part of the development plan Heck, even in AC4 we got just straps for holsters (even after AC3 had normal holsters, though being in parallel development, not sure if AC3 holsters would've helped or not at all).

That said, I really want scabbards. :D

AlexEzio89
03-29-2014, 07:32 AM
I hope in ac unity the AI for the enemy to be change to be hard when you fight etc....i hope for this change the AI of enemy is the same in ac brotherhood ac revelations ac 3 and ac 4...i hope to see that on my ps4 with new ac unity ( is only next gen come one Ubi give us a next gen AI of enemy ) :)

Calvarok
03-29-2014, 07:42 AM
The problem would not be glitchiness per se (and it didn't really impact performance), but the fact that a unique scabbard would be required for each one. For example, AC1 has like five scabbards in total (for three swords and two knives), ACII (where scabbards disappeared) would have required like 25 approximately. (And it's also important to note that not only the main character gets one, but also all NPCs with weapons... then there's also a disarming thing, what if you don't have a sword and then disarm an opponent with a sword, does the scabbard just magically appear? What if you have a mace, lose it in battle with a Brute, and then pick up a sword after battle, what happens with the mace holster that would've been on your character?)

People tend to think 'well, it's just scabbards and Ubisoft has hundreds of employees, surely they can do that', and, well, kinda, but scabbards have an ironically unproportional amount of work related to them., so it's understandable when that this particular detail is not part of the development plan Heck, even in AC4 we got just straps for holsters (even after AC3 had normal holsters, though being in parallel development, not sure if AC3 holsters would've helped or not at all).

That said, I really want scabbards. :D
this is also true. I hope the lack of scabbards in the reveal trailer doesn't mean they're planning for the player to be able to carry thousands of different kinds of maces and clubs and swords again... and I hope proper holsters come back too!

Farlander1991
03-29-2014, 08:01 AM
this is also true. I hope the lack of scabbards in the reveal trailer doesn't mean they're planning for the player to be able to carry thousands of different kinds of maces and clubs and swords again... and I hope proper holsters come back too!

Even if there are only a few types of each weapon, any existence of customization (which people really want) and disarming mechanics (which can also apply, for example in case of Ezio's games, to the character himself as brutes can knock out normal weapons from your hands) is complicating things a lot.

In terms of scabbards, AC1 had the advantage of giving you weapons at pre-set moments and allowing you to use only those weapons.

Calvarok
03-29-2014, 08:05 AM
Even if there are only a few types of each weapon, any existence of customization (which people really want) and disarming mechanics (which can also apply, for example in case of Ezio's games, to the character himself as brutes can knock out normal weapons from your hands) is complicating things a lot.

In terms of scabbards, AC1 had the advantage of giving you weapons at pre-set moments and allowing you to use only those weapons.
I feel like the problem is solved if they only allow you to carry weapons you take from enemies, not sheath them.

Farlander1991
03-29-2014, 08:29 AM
I feel like the problem is solved if they only allow you to carry weapons you take from enemies, not sheath them.

Yeah, that's a solution, but even then there's a number of questions.
What if the enemy you took the weapon from had the same sword as you? And if yes, why we can't do so with others? We're gonna tell players, 'sorry, you have the wrong scabbard and the weapon doesn't fit there'?
While in AC3/4 we can't lose our swords, we can in AC2/ACB (not sure about ACR), what if we want to bring that dynamic of losing the weapon back to spice up the combat system? After battle do we have to find our particular sword or we'll remain weaponless?
What if you want to create a situation where you have scavenge for weapons from others? Can you free run with them? Why not?

And I'm not trying to shoot down any ideas, but even a seemingly simple solution may require a lot of questions to be answered (and these are just hypothetical, who knows what actual design and technical questions have to be answered there at Ubi in the project itself). AC mechanics aren't the most flawless ones, but, if scabbards have to be sacrificed for additional depth in gameplay and customization (with the ability to FINALLY de-equip stuff... UBIIII!!!!!! DE-EQUIPPING!!!!!!!! :p ), then I don't mind.

LoyalACFan
03-29-2014, 08:37 AM
The problem would not be glitchiness per se (and it didn't really impact performance), but the fact that a unique scabbard would be required for each one. For example, AC1 has like five scabbards in total (for three swords and two knives), ACII (where scabbards disappeared) would have required like 25 approximately. (And it's also important to note that not only the main character gets one, but also all NPCs with weapons... then there's also a disarming thing, what if you don't have a sword and then disarm an opponent with a sword, does the scabbard just magically appear? What if you have a mace, lose it in battle with a Brute, and then pick up a sword after battle, what happens with the mace holster that would've been on your character?)

People tend to think 'well, it's just scabbards and Ubisoft has hundreds of employees, surely they can do that', and, well, kinda, but scabbards have an ironically unproportional amount of work related to them., so it's understandable when that this particular detail is not part of the development plan Heck, even in AC4 we got just straps for holsters (even after AC3 had normal holsters, though being in parallel development, not sure if AC3 holsters would've helped or not at all).

That said, I really want scabbards. :D

Would they really need a unique sheath for each sword though? Take AC3's holsters for example. Even though there were many different pistols, they all fit in the same holsters (duckfoot pistols notwithstanding as they glitched through the side). Obviously there's more structural variation in swords than pistols, but probably not enough to warrant a totally new render for each one. Arnaud is presumably going to be using exclusively rapiers and sabers of the time period, and all of them will be of roughly the same size and shape. There will be enough difference that a "one-size-fits-all" sheath won't work, but they could probably get by with five or six sheath models, each of which could house two or three of the sword models.

Calvarok
03-29-2014, 08:46 AM
I can't think of a single way the combat system would be improved with you losing your sword randomly, tbh. And I don't think holding the same weapon temporarily while your other one is sheathed is too crazy. you can do that now in the game. having a visible sheath doesn't change that logic at all. in fact it makes the fact that you can't carry both at all times make even more sense.

Farlander1991
03-29-2014, 08:49 AM
Would they really need a unique sheath for each sword though? Take AC3's holsters for example. Even though there were many different pistols, they all fit in the same holsters (duckfoot pistols notwithstanding as they glitched through the side). Obviously there's more structural variation in swords than pistols, but probably not enough to warrant a totally new render for each one. Arnaud is presumably going to be using exclusively rapiers and sabers of the time period, and all of them will be of roughly the same size and shape. There will be enough difference that a "one-size-fits-all" sheath won't work, but they could probably get by with five or six sheath models, each of which could house two or three of the sword models.

Well, I'm speaking mostly from the perspective of AC2-AC4, because we have really no idea what kind of weapons are going to be there in Unity. Sabers will be a pain, though. This all depends on how many particular sabers they're going to have, but there's not a lot of swords with the same curvature and length in the blade.

C_G_01
03-29-2014, 09:24 AM
Oh I hope it is, and get our holsters back as well.

I wouldn't mind AC1 style when it comes to weapons. Most of the weapons on AC2-AC4 are redundant anyway, plus their stats don't really matter. I mean, did anyone actually use the french dress swords?... Maybe more weapon types, but less variation of each type.

When it comes to holsters, even Connor with duckfoot pistols look better than Edward with those ridiculous little hoops on his belt. If the pistols were resting on the hoops, it would be fine, but wtf are they doing hanging by the grips like that, who would carry a firearm like that, seriously. And if they do bring back the holsters, I hope they put it on all the outfits, not just the default and default variations. I love the Edward the legend outfit man, but those weapons hanging in mid-air like that just ruins it for me.

Dome500
03-29-2014, 03:26 PM
Well, to be fair The Order is rendering a really narrow and linear path rather than an open city. It better at least look good.

This.

From what I see the order looks like a Linear 3rd person shooter with pretty graphics.

As for the Original Topic => I think a universal weapon sheath would work. And if you are actually NOT carrying a sword the sheath should still be there. Which would mean you have the place for a sword, but you do not have one equiped.

As for different sword types, I think the problem mainly exists with AC2(+B/R) and AC4, because in those times there were all kinds of different swords (especially in the golden age of piracy). If you come closer to an AC3-time then I think swords might look different indeed, but rather have similar shapes. And there are holsters/sheaths that are indeed intended to carry different kinds of weapons by allowing them to be dynamic and customizable in size (a special design that allows you to make the sheath smaller if needed).

So I do not see a problem in explaining it that way if it is for the sake of having a sheath, though for me personally it is not that important to have a sheath.

jayjay275
03-29-2014, 03:27 PM
It'd be cool if our weapons could be disarmed again like in AC2.

Calvarok
03-30-2014, 08:15 PM
my issue is, what does that really add to gameplay? it just means you either scrabble to pick it up or use your dagger or hidden blades to wreck people, and then pick it up. What would be more interesting is enemies actually breaking your guard, forcing your sword away from your natural defensive position and doing damage to you.

that's an actual element of gameplay, not just something that breaks the flow.

deskp
03-30-2014, 08:24 PM
I wouldnt mind if we only had 1 sword throughout the game.

If the wanted they could keep the shape of the blade the same, and give us variation in the hilt(?) handle(?)

I think alot of the sword variation in games thus far has been kindof silly, 1 good looking character based sword is enough for me. that way we could more easily get our scabbard back.



The lack of scabbard works fine with me though. I just really hope we get our AC3 style gun hoylster back! floating guns or weird straps are pathethic.

rob.davies2014
03-30-2014, 08:39 PM
Real holsters need to return. I'd have loved it if they'd given Edward the holsters he has in those CGI trailers because they were distinct from Connor's but plausible. Those loops for the handles were ridiculous.
Maybe as a solution to the whole obtaining a sword and wanting to keep it, we could have around 5 swords in the while game and you can choose to go out with the scabbard for that sword or you can select an all-in-one strap like we've had since AC2. So if you obtain a better sword you can keep it in the strap.

Jexx21
03-31-2014, 12:06 AM
In a previous comment it was said that you can't loose your sword in AC3. Technically you can loose the weapon in the sword slot, by switching to one of the heavy axes, "throwing" it into a guards head, and never picking it up.

I did it often because I didn't feel like Connor would actually use a sword. It felt redundant when I had the tomahawk.

Calvarok
03-31-2014, 01:37 AM
In a previous comment it was said that you can't loose your sword in AC3. Technically you can loose the weapon in the sword slot, by switching to one of the heavy axes, "throwing" it into a guards head, and never picking it up.

I did it often because I didn't feel like Connor would actually use a sword. It felt redundant when I had the tomahawk.
I did that also. I think people were just referring to enemies being able to knock your sword out of your hands.

Jexx21
03-31-2014, 02:22 AM
Ah. I would love to see that return actually.