PDA

View Full Version : Muzzle Flash Poll



pilas-
07-14-2004, 05:25 AM

pilas-
07-14-2004, 05:25 AM
Hey Guys,
To avoid this very important issue from beeing undermined with off topic posts, please just vote "Yes" or "No" to the following question:
Should the muzzle flashes be reduced?
Im sure Oleg and his team will take the results under consideration.

S! All

Pilas

pilas-
07-16-2004, 02:49 AM
Come on guys, keep voting!

Bob the Pilot
07-16-2004, 04:35 AM
why do people vote no? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif
everybody knows that real muzzleflashes don't look like nuclear blasts.

alarmer
07-16-2004, 06:32 AM
Maybe Oleg has whipped his crew to vote http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Kidding Kidding http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VMF513_Sandman
07-16-2004, 09:02 AM
i could see having ur so-called 'nuclear blast' flash if we had 30mm a-10 gatling guns or 105mm howitzers added...but it seems that for just for heavy machine guns, it's just a tad much. huge cannon i think would have a bright flash. look at the ac-130's firing and their not the 30mm chain gun or 105mm howitzer's either.

GT182
07-16-2004, 09:15 AM
Muzzle Flash is way over done, but I don't bleieve Oleg will reduce it any no matter how many of us vote "Yes" for a change.

It's ashame to as it ruins the realism. All we should see is a "twinkle" of flash during daylight fights.

"GT182" / "Stab/JG51_vonSpinmeister"
www.bombs-away.net/forums (http://www.bombs-away.net/forums)
"Fly to Survive, Survive to Fly"

Future-
07-16-2004, 10:44 AM
In my opinion, the whole fuzz about the muzzle flashes is just mostly a waste of webspace and time.
I can think of better things to change/fix than your pathetic muzzle flashes, and obviously Oleg thinks the same.

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

Bob the Pilot
07-16-2004, 10:45 AM
i dont get it. shouldn't this be very easy to change? just change a value or something? :P
it is NOT realistic...

Future-
07-16-2004, 10:53 AM
I just read in the other thread that Oleg already stated he WON'T change the muzzle flashes.

@ Bob the Pilot: Really? So you do know the game code inside out to make such a guess, I suppose? There are several things in this game that ain't realistic, and some of them are way more important than those flashes. Flashes won't be changed, other things will be.

End of story.

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

OldMan____
07-16-2004, 11:04 AM
The ones that say no.. probably never flew a 109 wuth MK108? What could be more important than making viable the MOST IMPORTANT PLANE OF WAR.. And yes.. it is the 109.. without the 109.. noone would have anything to fight against

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

JG52Schatten
07-16-2004, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Future-:
1) In my opinion, the whole fuzz about the muzzle flashes is just mostly a waste of webspace and time.
2) I can think of better things to change/fix than your pathetic muzzle flashes, and obviously Oleg thinks the same.

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not bashing here, just my 2 "pathetic" cents worth....

1) I agree and disagree... hear me out...

I agree that continued petition on this matter may be a waste of time and space if there is NO WAY that Oleg & Co will ever change the muzzle flashes.

However, it is clearly a matter that people feel VERY strongly about. Now, I'm not saying that they should change something accurate just because a majority of people want it to be to their liking... But if enough evidence exists (which much has already been presented and generally accepted by the community) to prove that the flash is overdone, then why not change it? (Also remember those side-by-side comparisons showing the muzzle flashes from FB and the original IL-2?) Because it is "impossible"? Then why is it impossible? Can we have proof to support this reason? I mean if they can fix bugs of every type, make add-ons, increase/decrease smoke, modify/correct FMs and DMs, and on and on and on.... then why is muzzle flash so hard to do? If it is at all possible to make it accurate, then why not do so especially when there are so many that feel so strongly about it? Many feel that more time has been spent arguing about it than what it would've taken to actually correct it. I think everyone wanting to reduce the muzzle flash would like to know that their voices are being heard and not falling upon deaf or indifferent ears. Listen to all of those who have presented support as they are the real voice of change.

2) Key word in this statement: "YOUR"

I have to agree with what OldMan___ stated. I can't help but feel like the majority of those saying NO are probably flying with cockpit off or with planes that have wing-loaded guns. To them it doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter to them, they DO NOT have ANY place in this discussion. And the only reason they would be is for selfish advantage. There are many saying NO because they fly this way and want those whom they fly against to be at as much disadvantage as possible, regardless of whether it is accurate or not. In my book, these types of people fall right in with the kill-stealers, print-screen cheaters, vulch rule-ignoring idiots, etc.

Bob the Pilot
07-16-2004, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Future-:
I just read in the other thread that Oleg already stated he WON'T change the muzzle flashes.

@ Bob the Pilot: Really? So you do know the game code inside out to make such a guess, I suppose? There are several things in this game that ain't realistic, and some of them are way more important than those flashes. Flashes won't be changed, other things will be.

End of story.

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope... but it seems unlikely that this should be a problem. have they stated that this is the reason why they cant change the muzzleflashes? and it really is a big problem. try flying a me109 with an mk108 cannon. or actually, try ANY gun with cowl guns, it really blocks your view and i cant imagine this being hard to change. have you been told otherwise? in that case sorry..

JG5_UnKle
07-16-2004, 05:05 PM
Muzzle flashes changed (were reduced) from demo to full retail version.

Odd that it can't be modfied again, what do I know though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif I'm no programmer....

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/victoria.stevens/jg5_logo.jpg
JG5 Main Site (http://www.alucinor.com/eismeer)
Public Forum (http://www.alucinor.com/eismeer/forum)

Flygflottilj16_Sulan
07-16-2004, 07:55 PM
2) Key word in this statement: "YOUR"

I have to agree with what OldMan___ stated. I can't help but feel like the majority of those saying NO are probably flying with cockpit off or with planes that have wing-loaded guns. To them it doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter to them, they DO NOT have ANY place in this discussion. And the only reason they would be is for selfish advantage. There are many saying NO because they fly this way and want those whom they fly against to be at as much disadvantage as possible, regardless of whether it is accurate or not. In my book, these types of people fall right in with the kill-stealers, print-screen cheaters, vulch rule-ignoring idiots, etc.[/QUOTE]

lol well I´d suppose it only matters to those who don´t like the flash, in which case (according to my understanding of your reasoning) only those who don´t like it are welcome to discuss it... That is how I understand what you typed...

Anyway, The flash DOES SUCK for a mk108-armed bf109.

Red_Storm
07-17-2004, 04:31 AM
Well, muzzle-flashes won't bother you if you fly allied aircraft, as they all seem to have no flash at all, but it makes it impossible to fly German aircraft. The FW-190, with an already very limited field of view to the front, becomes totally blinded when firing the nose-guns.

---
http://www.albumsnaps.com/viewPhoto.php?id=42993

Mispunt
07-17-2004, 05:53 AM
Yawn...

Yes it sucks and no you DO NOT know if it's easy or not.

The man said no, accept it.

(ps I fly Bf109's)

Edit: oh and I voted No.
It doesn't ruin the game for me and I'd rather they work on PF and BOB instead.
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Mispunt-MisSig.jpg

OldMan____
07-17-2004, 08:58 AM
My opinion as game programmer... It is IMPOSSIBLE to be difficult to change such feature. Changing the flash is guarantee a question of half an hour!!! No engine can have such a problem selecting textures....

The only possible explanation is that the flash resources are loaded before the enviromental data is avaliable (night or day). That kind of problem would incur in a deep change in engine to solve it... but that ONLY if you want different flashes for night and day. It is still EASY to change the flash as a whole... just diminishing it at both situations MUST be easy (unless we are speaking about the worst written engine in history.. and I doubt it).


That seems to be quite important subject.. and I as many others would prefer this change to all new AC from PF.

I do not want to look insolent or anything like that. Just cant stand to the affirmative of being difficult to change.. If it is.. give a bief explanation of why... (I bet is something close to the above stated). I know very well how difficult is to keep an engine up to date and all that stuff, but I also know how important is to keep costumers happy.. or at least give them an idea of why they can´t be. A simple promisse that this would be adressed in BoB would mean a LOT!

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

Mispunt
07-17-2004, 10:29 AM
I know very well how easy it MIGHT be, but given Maddox Games proven track record I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
So following that line it's my thought as well that it's not just a matter of changing art resources. And ultimately that they don't want to do a half a$$ed job to satisfy a minority group whilst depriving the rest of muzzle flashes at night.

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Mispunt-MisSig.jpg

JG52Schatten
07-17-2004, 11:07 AM
@Decent-
Sorry, bad choice of words on my part:
"If it doesn't matter to them, they DO NOT have ANY place in this discussion."

In effect what I meant is that it is not necessary for people who could care less about the MFs being changed to show up here (where we are trying to get answers) and say "Nyah, nyah, Oleg said NO." Children should go outside & play with other children. No is not an answer to Why. Like Yes is not an answer to Where.

Also as pointed out before, many are wanting MFs to stay the same as to disadvantage as many others as possible since it doesn't effect them. (Except that it increases their survivability rate.) Their lobbying for the MFs to remain the same is like lobbying in favor of a cheat-mod. THEY have no business trying to hinder the progress of accuracy and fairness.

The discussion (I should've said conversation) to which I referred was about WHY Oleg said the MFs could not be changed. Again, sorry for not clarifying that. We all know that the MFs are currently wrong. Most of us agree that it should be changed. Many of us want it to be changed and since they say it cannot be, we want to know WHY. THAT WAS THE CONVERSATION. The conversation was not WILL Oleg change it.

That being said, Ivan, although not a developer, explained to me in the best of his ability from his understanding of the matter WHY the MFs cannot be changed. I, like many others, thought that the MF's image files could be modified and replaced w/o having to re-write program code. Ivan explained that its not that simple. If I understand him correctly, the problem lies in the complexity of HOW the graphics engine processes and produces those images in terms of distance and angles. I could see where that might be a problem.

[Ivan, correct me if I misunderstood.]

OldMan___ may beg to differ. I don't know, I'm not a programmer myself. But I accept Ivan's explanation since it has been more of a rational explanation to WHY NOT than any of the "Because Oleg said he won't"s.

BTW Decent, the problem isn't experienced by Bf109 pilots only. You know that the Bf110s had Mk108s too. Don't forget the other planes that also had nose-mounted cannons. And that most of the planes that have cowling-mounted HMGs suffer from this problem also. Therefore the problem affects LW & VVS pilots alike who fly with cockpit-on.

One more apology. Some out there think that I've been trying to speak for everyone. I have not. I speak from a standpoint that I, like many others, had interest in this matter. I do not tell others what their opinion is and since everyone (not banned) has an equal opportunity to speak their minds here, I would hope that they would do so in an intelligent and courteous manner. Sadly though, there are too many childish individuals on these forums who get great delight out of (and whose sole purpose seems to be) starting controversial threads and watching insults and general name-calling fly. They will often add to this to fuel it more and they take every opportunity to knit-pick everyone else's posts and try to come up with something clever to say as an insult in an attempt to try to make themselves look better. Sad indeed. This is largely the cyber-playground for juveniles. I'm learning a hard lesson here that I should not be an active member of this community since nothing civilized or intelligent can come of it. It is hardly worth the effort of have to defend your every word against aforementioned types. To all of those that thought that I was trying to be one of those "high & mighty"s, I was not, and I'm sorry for coming across that way.

OldMan____
07-17-2004, 11:45 AM
As said.. it MIGHT be really difficult. But I simply cannot even figure it out how would I make it difficult to change.. even if I wanted to make it difficult (considering that smaller flashes are already there like 151/20 ones). So the engine is capable of making small flashes.. since it already does that.


Just an observation... puting in detriment the night fly appearane is not even CLOSE to be as bad as putting the 95% of time day like in detriment. So that is not a valid excuse.


The explanation given seems possible considering the flash seen from outside the plane. From inside.. no idea. If that is the point ok... we just wanted some light in our vision of the problem (not the flashes light)

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

VMF513_Sandman
07-17-2004, 02:04 PM
just my thoughts: in version 1.0, we didnt have the flashes quite as bright as we do now with just the machine guns. i can see having a brighter flash with the heavy artillery (mk108's), but my question is, why have a muzzle flash from a gun that's no where near as large of caliber as it is with the 'nuclear tipped' shells in the nose? in the p-39 and p-63 nose mounted 50 calibers, the flash is about the same for a 'pipsqueak' round as if it was a german mk108 cannon shell. that's what confuses me. the p-38 on the other hand, doesnt have this. then again, trying to shoot a deflection in a p-38 is dam near an art form and ur rate of success might be 2% in accuracy.
another question for the german mg's: would some caliber mg's have less smoke on the tracer's...meaning, the weapons on the early 109's differing to the later models with the later model 109's having an increase due to a higher caliber of mg round? seems all caliber mg in the 109/190's is the same all the way around. 50 cal having zero tracer smoke when in gun cam footage, there is at least some sort of smoke trail even if their a bit faint. i can understand pilots of the luftwaffe's pov; i've seen rather bright flashes in the russian planes that have nose mounted mg's as well as the zero's. which brings up another: a6m2's mg was a rather weak weapon compared to the other planes it faced. wouldnt it be correct to have muzzle flash appropriate for gun caliber instead of having it all lumped into the '1 size fits all' category?

Mispunt
07-17-2004, 02:28 PM
@ Oldman: That's actually a good point there about the cockpits being seperate models. That would offer a good compromise (to me anyway) having only muzzle flashes on external models (bit like a quarter a$$ed solution http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ).

Not quite sure what you mean by making smaller flashes. In my experience you just make a bunch of generic emitters, specify size shape and texture used for each one and apply them where appropriate. The fact that IL2 has them is probably down to how the artist made them.

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Mispunt-MisSig.jpg

Vike
07-19-2004, 06:13 AM
Hello,

i play IL2 FB AEP ver01 for sometimes now;

I usually fly on Bf109K-4,because i find it really more impressive than any other one (visually,armament etc)! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I use:
Athlon XP oclocked @ 2305Mhz
Radeon 9800XT in 1280x960x32 resolution;
1024MB DDR Samsung cl 2/2/2
Catalyst 4.7
Windows XP Pro -SP1- + DirectX 9.0b

In cockpit,the FPS are about 50/60 fps;
Outside,it's near 80/100.

By using Mk108,in cockpit view,the fps drops down @ 16 fps due to the flashes;

Absolutly dumb. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Please Maddox/Oleg CORRECT THIS.


POLL: Vote Yes,obviously http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://forum.tt-hardware.com/uploads/beau.1090241241.jpg Vike

[This message was edited by Vike on Mon July 19 2004 at 05:47 AM.]

VulgarOne
07-19-2004, 11:06 AM
Give it up guys yer wasting yer breath. With 2 new releases in the works Oleg has no intentions of fixing anything in IL2. It is a shame that Oleg has stooped to such tactics, but that is the corporate way.

Vulgar

Future-
07-19-2004, 08:08 PM
Lol Vulgar, you're really trying to push Ivan, don't you? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Seriously now, your statement is a bad joke at best. We know there is a patch for FB in the works, and it is possible that there will be another patch or add-on later too.

However, there's one thing I have to agree with you:

"Give it up guys yer wasting yer breath."

Oleg said he won't change the flashes in FB. So it is most likely they REALLY won't get changed, and I also think Oleg doesn't owe anyone of us an explanation WHY he won't change them. If he would have to explain every move he makes on FB, he'd be sitting here on the board full-time. And that would definitely delay all projects for ages - and you don't wanna have that, right http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ?

There is a very slim chance that Oleg might change his mind, but honestly, I don't believe in that.
Maybe PF and BoB will have "better" flashes, whatever that means to you guys, but I think this matter can be considered as a closed case for FB.

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG