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EricMinchey
03-25-2014, 12:43 AM
There are three contradictions between the Creed, and the actions of the Assassins who follow it.

1. The Assassins seek to promote peace, but commit murder.

2. The Assassins seek to open the minds of men, but require obedience to rules.

3. The Assassins seek to reveal the danger of blind faith, yet practice it themselves.

What are your thoughts/opinions on these?

BATISTABUS
03-25-2014, 12:47 AM
It's about sacrificing yourself for the Creed. The Assassins do not always experience the benefits of their work, but carry on in hopes of creating a better future. We see Ezio struggling with this reality in Revelations/Embers, and Connor coming to grips with it at the end of Forsaken.

Assassin_M
03-25-2014, 12:48 AM
"I have no satisfactory answer to these charges, only possibilities... Do we bend the rules in service to a greater good? And if we do, what does it say of us? That we are liars? That we are frauds? That we are weak? Every moment is spent wrestling with these contradictions and in spite of all the years I've had to reflect, still I can find no suitable answer... And I fear that one may not exist.
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted. Does our creed provide the answer, then? That one may be two things – opposite in every way – simultaneously? And why not? Am I not proof? We of noble intentions, possessed of barbaric means? We who celebrate the sanctity of life and then promptly take it from those we deem our enemies?" Altair in reference to the ironies..

he came to accept the ironies as an unavoidable part of their Creed and principles...there's always an irony to what the Assassins do, but they embrace it as a sacrifice for the greater good. They let go of their lives to make others' lives better. They value freedom but are quick to silence Templars...

Simplest way I can put it..

I-Like-Pie45
03-25-2014, 12:52 AM
Mother. Father. I am sorry. I have failed you both.
I made a promise to protect our people. I thought... I thought if I could stop the Templars, if I could keep the revolution free from their influence,that those I supported would do what was right.

They did, I suppose, do what was right. What was right for them. As for you, Father I thought I might unite us, that we would forget the past and forge a better future. In time, I believed you could be made to see the world as I did- to understand. But it was just a dream.

This, too- I should have known.

Were we not meant to live in peace, then? Is that it?
Are we born to argue? To fight?
So many voices- each demanding something else.

It has been hard at times, but never harder than today. To see all I worked for perverted, discarded, forgotten. You would say I have described the whole of history, Father.

Are you smiling, then? Hoping I might speak the words you longed to hear? To validate you? To say that all along you were right? I will not. Even now, faced as I am with the truth of your cold words, I refuse. Because I believe things can still change. I may never succeed. The Assassins may struggle another thousand years in vain.

But we will not stop.

Compromise.

That is what everyone has insisted upon. And so I have learnt it.

But differently than most, I think.

I realize now that it will take time, that the road ahead is long and shrouded in darkness It is a road that will not always take me where I wish to go and I doubt I will live to see its end.

But I will travel down it nonetheless.

For at my side walks hope
In the face of all that insists I turn back, I carry on.

This-
this is my compromise.

We Assassins are your sons, we are your husbands, we are everywhere. And there will be more of the Templars dead tomorrow.

Calvarok
03-25-2014, 01:43 AM
Even without that monologue at the end of Forsaken, I think Connor's story summed it up the best. It's never going to be clear if either side is completely right and justified in what they're doing. They aren't killing monsters. They're killing men and women who believe different things from themselves, simply to gain the upper hand for however many years or months or days. To keep fighting this endless fight.

But Assassin's can't just stop. They know what's out there, and they vowed to fight it. They can't un-learn what they know, and eventually their past will catch up to them, through a call to action or a knife in the back. It can't be a vow made lightly. You can't question yourself. It has to be a job. You have to kill when necessary, without hesitation, or anger, or fear.

Connor's first kills were done out of a sense of justice. Of righteousness. But each time he learned that these monsters he was slaying were just men after all. And by the end of his story, every person he killed was someone he felt no hatred for. His lifelong friend, who he only wanted to protect. Haytham, who he had hoped could be his ally. And then it came to Charles Lee, who he now knew was not responsible for his mother's death, who he felt nothing for and felt no righteousness in hunting. Charles Lee was his duty as an Assassin to kill, because he was a Templar. And seeing things as simply as that is the only way an Assassin can go about their duty without hesitation.

JustPlainQuirky
03-25-2014, 01:58 AM
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

Dome500
03-25-2014, 03:27 AM
Assassins and Templars.

Two unequal sides in perfect balance.
They struggle and yet, with their struggle, they seem to keep the world in order somehow, reduce the Chaos.
They ARE a compromise, their whole history is a compromise. A compromise of two radical sides of human nature.
Two sides of a coin.
The one can not exist without the other.


Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

Indeed.

Radman500
10-19-2014, 07:44 PM
i don't understand the 3rd irony...i understand completely the other 2


but how are the assassins practicing blind faith?

Braders06
10-19-2014, 10:01 PM
i don't understand the 3rd irony...i understand completely the other 2


but how are the assassins practicing blind faith?

I'm not sure if this is right, but I always took it to mean that they want all people to be free, and not fall into chaos. They have blind faith in the ability of human kind to find freedom, yet not lead themselves into a never ending anarchy. This is what Templars don't believe, as all evidence seems to prove this ideal wrong. So they have a blind faith that people can sort themselves out, without the need to sacrifice their freedom to any degree, if they are simply given enough time.

Or if you want to take it to a more literal level, you could look at one of their most iconic stunts, the leap of faith. But I don't think that is what he meant.

Any way that is what I think, others may think differently ;)

Radman500
10-19-2014, 10:48 PM
are these ironies, make the assassins creed seem hypocritical? how did altair respond to these contradictions?

EricMinchey
10-20-2014, 01:17 AM
"What follows are the three great ironies of the Assassin Order: (1) Here we seek to promote peace, but murder is our means. (2) Here we seek to open the minds of men, but require obedience to a master and set of rules. (3) Here we seek to reveal the danger of blind faith, yet we are practitioners ourselves. I have no satisfactory answer to these charges, only possibilities... Do we bend the rules in service to a greater good? And if we do, what does it say of us? That we are liars? That we are frauds? That we are weak? Every moment is spent wrestling with these contradictions and in spite of all the years I've had to reflect, still I can find no suitable answer... And I fear that one may not exist. Nothing is true. Everything is permitted. Does our creed provide the answer, then? That one may be two things – opposite in every way – simultaneously? And why not? Am I not proof? We of noble intentions, possessed of barbaric means? We who celebrate the sanctity of life and then promptly take it from those we deem our enemies?"- Alta´r Ibn-La'Ahad's Codex Page 4