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JustPlainQuirky
03-23-2014, 07:56 PM
... instead of being hunted by soldiers in the streets of towns, you are being hunted by angry mobs who want to execute you. And the soldiers are the ones who are afraid. Roof top running would def be more useful. :rolleyes:

adventurewomen
03-23-2014, 09:51 PM
I'm all for angry mobs! That would be hella fun! :D

Most of the time in previous AC games when you were fully notorious, the NPC's would step back and away from you and making comments about the Assassin. It would be nice for the NPC's to run up to you while fully notorious and just attack you.

I most definitely enjoy running on the rooftops when fully notorious so much fun! :D

Sushiglutton
03-23-2014, 09:56 PM
If the crowd is as dense as in the trailer something like that could be real epic (and scary). I know people don't like when the assassin is shoe-horned into historical events, but I'm all for storming the bastille with the mob!

silvermercy
03-23-2014, 10:01 PM
... instead of being hunted by soldiers in the streets of towns, you are being hunted by angry mobs who want to execute you. And the soldiers are the ones who are afraid. Roof top running would def be more useful. :rolleyes:
or Connor fan girls. We're equally scary. :p

But yeah love the idea. Maybe even having mobs with pitch forks burning your house! lol

lothario-da-be
03-23-2014, 10:08 PM
or Connor fan girls. We're equally scary. :p

But yeah love the idea. Maybe even having mobs with pitch forks burning your house! lol
lol
I would love it if the NPC's would be more interactive. Like if you kill a civilian people will hunt you down. Sad you can't kill them anymore in ac4.

SpiritOfNevaeh
03-23-2014, 10:16 PM
or Connor fan girls. We're equally scary. :p

Lolz… I can imagine, but yeah, I'm all for being chased by mobs… maybe mobs as big as in Left for Dead mob spawns? :p

I-Like-Pie45
03-23-2014, 10:21 PM
you mean basically like that good 'ol riot mode cheat from GTA?


Lolz… I can imagine, but yeah, I'm all for being chased by mobs… maybe mobs as big as in Left for Dead mob spawns? :p

Yes... just imagine an AC game with an AI as ****ish as the Director... ;)

adventurewomen
03-23-2014, 10:27 PM
or Connor fan girls. We're equally scary. :p
Haha! <3

Indeed, we are! ;)

padaE
03-23-2014, 10:28 PM
Can't be done. There would be no one left alive in the city after the game is over!

adventurewomen
03-23-2014, 10:29 PM
Can't be done. There would be no one left alive in the city after the game is over!
NPC's constantly regenerate, so within the games engine that's impossible. There will still be thousands of NPCs in towns, no matter what. ;)

Consus_E
03-23-2014, 10:49 PM
Can't be done. There would be no one left alive in the city after the game is over!

I doubt the Animus would let that happen...

JustPlainQuirky
03-24-2014, 12:14 AM
Can't be done. There would be no one left alive in the city after the game is over!

The trick would be you can't kill them because they're civilians and they'd hate you even more.

Dome500
03-24-2014, 12:19 AM
Meh....

ON another note: I hope the "start revolt" mechanic from AC3 returns in a more fleshed-out and useful way as regular gameplay-element.

Consus_E
03-24-2014, 12:39 AM
Lol I hope we can have random guards carried off to be executed! Also wondering if there will be a contextual kill for guillotines :p

JustPlainQuirky
03-24-2014, 12:41 AM
Lol I hope we can have random guards carried off to be executed! Also wondering if there will be a contextual kill for guillotines :p

Of course there will.


Wouldn't be a French Revolution game without it!

Assassin_M
03-24-2014, 12:42 AM
Not too keen on this. I'm one for social stealth and the simplistic, but obviously full of potential, system from AC I is something i'v always wanted them to work on. Making civilians, an Assassin's most important component when approaching, hostile would destroy the concept of social stealth even more. I want Civilians to be neutral.

I-Like-Pie45
03-24-2014, 12:48 AM
maybe it could be made so that civilians are only hostile when you are dressed in "rich people" clothes

JustPlainQuirky
03-24-2014, 12:49 AM
Not too keen on this. I'm one for social stealth and the simplistic, but obviously full of potential, system from AC I is something i'v always wanted them to work on. Making civilians, an Assassin's most important component when approaching, hostile would destroy the concept of social stealth even more. I want Civilians to be neutral.

It was the french revolution though. Nobody was safe. The crowds were wild. Everyone was a potential target. Neutral civilains simply isn't possible.

Though if you insist on having the ability to stealth, maybe there could be options to blend in with the crowd or bring attention to someone else for the mob to chase then be on your marry way, but if you do something that grabs attention then you'll be running for your life.

I like that idea....yeah...


maybe it could be made so that civilians are only hostile when you are dressed in "rich people" clothes

Then why wear rich people clothes? To access buildings belonging to nobles?

Assassin_M
03-24-2014, 12:52 AM
It was the french revolution though. Nobody was safe. The crowds were wild. Everyone was a potential target. Neutral civilains simply isn't possible.

Though if you insist on having the ability to stealth, maybe there could be options to blend in with the crowd or bring attention to someone else for the mob to chase then be on your marry way, but if you do something that grabs attention then you'll be running for your life.

I like that idea....yeah...
That's the thing about an Assassin, though...blending in...blending in with Chaos, battlefield, shadows...an Assassin's job is not to be noticed and, yeah sure, if you attract attention, get lynched, but the thing about social stealth IS avoiding drawing attention to yourself.

That idea can work..

DumbGamerTag94
03-24-2014, 01:04 AM
That's the thing about an Assassin, though...blending in...blending in with Chaos, battlefield, shadows...an Assassin's job is not to be noticed and, yeah sure, if you attract attention, get lynched, but the thing about social stealth IS avoiding drawing attention to yourself.

That idea can work..

True it could even provide incentive for the player to use stealth more frequently, and plan approaches accordingly, angry mobs could help decide weather it be a wiser approach to go in guns blazing and sword gleaming or cling to the shadows.

Wolfmeister1010
03-24-2014, 01:26 AM
This is actually a wonderful idea. I still want guards to be a threat, but I would love it if citizens were much more agressive. Like, if you do too many illegal actions, they attack/harrass you, and call the guards, with the guards actually coming towards you (in previous games, when citizens call the guards, no guards come, it is just a line)

Civilians carried swords and pistols too during this time so maybe some citizens actually pose a threat.

JustPlainQuirky
03-24-2014, 01:45 AM
Another thing could be the more money you have, the more aggressive citiziens will be towards you and more persistant they will be in executing you. :cool:

GunnerGalactico
03-24-2014, 07:22 AM
You'll have to be cautious and extra nice to the citizens... if you don't want them to rat you out to the guards. ;)

Just like the previous AC games you'll have to throw money, not just to cause a diversion to break the line of sight of the guards but to bribe and keep the civilians quiet as well.

shobhit7777777
03-24-2014, 07:39 AM
Interesting

Would make the concept of notoriety more meaningful and open up the crowd to greater manipulation. Also brings back the concept of socially acceptable actions from 1..which I loved.

It would also impinge on the player's ability to be a complete reckless "faffaffin"...which is one of the joys of open world gameplay

On a side note - Can we have a buffer zone where guards don't attack us outright for being a *******? The franchise does this to an extent with the guards pushing us about...but how about instead of outright stabbing you...they gang up and combat you with fists? You can:

1. Take the beating and minimize the fuss you caused (you can then tail the guards and get some sweet payback)
2. Run away - they'll chase and taunt you for a while....but won't be too aggressive....you could use this to lure them into an alley and murder-death-kill them...without notoriety being affected (No witnesses)
3. Fight them using fists - increases your notoriety...stop and runaway - they'll give proper chase
4. Kill them - they go full aggro as well....and your notoriety jumps...also brings in surrounding guards

GunnerGalactico
03-24-2014, 07:42 AM
Interesting

Would make the concept of notoriety more meaningful and open up the crowd to greater manipulation. Also brings back the concept of socially acceptable actions from 1..which I loved.

It would also impinge on the player's ability to be a complete reckless "faffaffin"...which is one of the joys of open world gameplay

On a side note - Can we have a buffer zone where guards don't attack us outright for being a *******? The franchise does this to an extent with the guards pushing us about...but how about instead of outright stabbing you...they gang up and combat you with fists? You can:

1. Take the beating and minimize the fuss you caused (you can then tail the guards and get some sweet payback)
2. Run away - they'll chase and taunt you for a while....but won't be too aggressive....you could use this to lure them into an alley and murder-death-kill them...without notoriety being affected (No witnesses)
3. Fight them using fists - increases your notoriety...stop and runaway - they'll give proper chase
4. Kill them - they go full aggro as well....and your notoriety jumps...also brings in surrounding guards

This. :cool:

itsamea-mario
03-24-2014, 11:21 AM
Wait, angry mobs chasing us? in revolutionary france?
Y'know, i reckon i'd have more respect for Ubi if they made a game where we were a hero of the aristocracy, as opposed to saviour of the common people, like we always are.

KrYpToNiC95
03-24-2014, 11:33 AM
We should have musketeers as an elite guard that hunt us if we get out notoriety too high. I also suggest you all watch the new tv show "The Musketeers". It started 2 months ago and it's absolutely brilliant.

Dome500
03-24-2014, 01:24 PM
That's the thing about an Assassin, though...blending in...blending in with Chaos, battlefield, shadows...an Assassin's job is not to be noticed and, yeah sure, if you attract attention, get lynched, but the thing about social stealth IS avoiding drawing attention to yourself.

That idea can work..

Agreed, though the concept has to be different.

I have an idea. What if angry mobs are like those non-guard enemies you have in AC sometimes? You know, marked on the map and if you come close and behave unusual or if you are notorious (wanted/not incognito) , they start to "investigate" and slowly "detect you". You can blend into the "neutral crowd" to avoid their gaze. They would be like little radical groups you see standing together and discussing, and they would have a special symbol on the map, they would appear red in eagle vision. So you know if you come close to them they will try to attack you.

They could be generated randomly once you are within the "area".

ALso, maybe at random events people could try "starting trouble", picking someone out of the crowd and starting to shove him/her and ask him/her who he/she is and why he/she looks so posh, etc. And sometimes they could do the same to you. You would then have 2 things you can do.

1. You go around a corner and disappear in the crowd or climb up the rooftops
2. You kill the guys who started trouble with you (silently or loud, loud would lead to nearby guards going to investigate what all the fuzz is about)
3. You can bribe him
4. You can distract him (throwing money, using smoke bomb) and escape

Those "random events" would of course only happen outside of main and side missions.


Interesting

Would make the concept of notoriety more meaningful and open up the crowd to greater manipulation. Also brings back the concept of socially acceptable actions from 1..which I loved.

It would also impinge on the player's ability to be a complete reckless "faffaffin"...which is one of the joys of open world gameplay

On a side note - Can we have a buffer zone where guards don't attack us outright for being a *******? The franchise does this to an extent with the guards pushing us about...but how about instead of outright stabbing you...they gang up and combat you with fists? You can:

1. Take the beating and minimize the fuss you caused (you can then tail the guards and get some sweet payback)
2. Run away - they'll chase and taunt you for a while....but won't be too aggressive....you could use this to lure them into an alley and murder-death-kill them...without notoriety being affected (No witnesses)
3. Fight them using fists - increases your notoriety...stop and runaway - they'll give proper chase
4. Kill them - they go full aggro as well....and your notoriety jumps...also brings in surrounding guards


Interesting concept. I like it.
Very good idea Shob, I'd like that.

Also, I'd like the notoriety to be less effected if I kill all witnesses.
I know it's technically open combat, but I'd like them to establish a system where I am able to somehow gain less notoriety by being not seen by so many witnesses. Maybe we could let one guard live (who begs for mercy once you have killed the others) and force him to "forget how you look", if you know what I mean. Like "if you tell them how I look, I'll come for you"

Fanani
03-24-2014, 06:43 PM
[I apologize in advance for english mistakes]

As AC2 was all about Ezio's revenge for his family, AC Unity could go deep into the 'freedom' theme by allowing you to become an assassin or a templar, depending on the choices you make. That would make the story really immersive and personal (I've always felt that I had more of a templar mindset).
Like, if you choose to be stealthy and believe that peace can be achieved by killing 'bad' guys, you could become a feared assassin, a demon known as a rumor by your enemies and as a legend by younger assassins. OR you could choose to go public, to spread your ideal and acquire followers to your cause, become very well known and influential, maybe even sending others to do the dirty job, then the gameplay would require more strategy than 1st (3rd?) person action, where you could optionally control the 'thugs', or hired assassins (templars and assassins united), or this could even be the co-op multiplayer part. Then you could finally become a templar king (not literally, of course), or martyr or something... And so the game could have multiple endings.

I also really loved the ability to continue playing the side missions of AC Black Flag on my iPhone, reading the stories, analyzing which ships to send, waiting patiently for them to come back (which would cheer up those heavy traffic jams, in the coziness of my car)... I just really missed the ability to gather supplies to sell like AC3, and the ability to BUY MORE STUFF, like properties, hire people, build monuments, bribe... If you would choose to be a templar, this feature could really come in handy, maybe with a gameplay a bit like R.U.S.E., as you would have to think strategically... And could even set the stage for your friends playing as assassins to play in 1st person.


As a huge AC fan, I'm really happy to see such a lively community discussing about the game. I loved most of the ideas from you guys!

JustPlainQuirky
03-24-2014, 08:29 PM
Omigod someone send this idea to Ubisoft right now :rolleyes:

UBISOFT U BETTER DO THIS :cool:

Sum1 send dis to the creative directer guise. :p

Dome500
03-24-2014, 09:28 PM
@Fanani => Nice idea and I would agree if it was another franchise, but IMO this is not how it works. We are in the animus and relive a story. A preset story, because it happened in the past. Sure, you could theoretically still make it that way, but if you do things like this it also often heavily influences the way you can tell stories, and that is a huge problem. Also, from the moment on you decide to become one of the two sides they have to do DOUBLE the cutscenes and DOUBLE the voice acting, because your routes would be completely different ones.

Fanani
03-24-2014, 09:48 PM
@Fanani => Nice idea and I would agree if it was another franchise, but IMO this is not how it works. We are in the animus and relive a story. A preset story, because it happened in the past. Sure, you could theoretically still make it that way, but if you do things like this it also often heavily influences the way you can tell stories, and that is a huge problem. Also, from the moment on you decide to become one of the two sides they have to do DOUBLE the cutscenes and DOUBLE the voice acting, because your routes would be completely different ones.

Yeah... let's just be mediocre then, the extraordinary is too much work

Hans684
03-24-2014, 09:57 PM
Yeah... let's just be mediocre then, the extraordinary is too much work

So you want a broken MD protagonist with broken memories in an broken animus, I'm all for alternate stuff but it needs a grounding to work. Apple Of Eden + Animus + protagonist = Alternate realities/possibilities, the simple version of a theory of mine on a way it can work and with the grounding made by previous games.

Dome500
03-24-2014, 10:12 PM
Yeah... let's just be mediocre then, the extraordinary is too much work

Well if - for you personally - a game without different paths and endings is automatically mediocre - then my friend, you might be playing the wrong game.
You should rather play the Witcher, Deus Ex, Mass Effect or similar games.

Fanani
03-24-2014, 10:19 PM
Well if - for you personally - a game without different paths and endings is automatically mediocre - then my friend, you might be playing the wrong game.
You should rather play the Witcher, Deus Ex, Mass Effect or similar games.

so you're ok with just being an expectator, to not decide where you want to go, to not have your own beliefs and values?
I'm just saying that this could really be grander. I believe that a great story is much more important than awesome graphics, for example.
It must be lovely to participate in the creation of these games.

Dome500
03-24-2014, 11:10 PM
so you're ok with just being an expectator, to not decide where you want to go, to not have your own beliefs and values?
I'm just saying that this could really be grander. I believe that a great story is much more important than awesome graphics, for example.
It must be lovely to participate in the creation of these games.

Yes I am.
Because every game tells a story.

Would the story be defined by the believes and actions of the player then all protagonists would be very similar, if not the same, in terms of personality, perception and faith.
Would we accept that, we would rob Ubisoft of a crucial element of their stories, a conclusion would never send distinct moral message or tell us a story. Focus on certain thoughts and meaning that could be conveyed would be lost in the decisions of the player, because he can shape the story.


For any other franchise (like WD for example or SC or Deus Ex) I would absolutely recommend choices (though in SC for example only in-mission choices, not overall story-arc choices).
But Assassins Creed was always good in telling a special story, conveying a meaning, a conclusion and moral lectures in their games.
With the element of choice all those other elements would be reduced.

So yes, IN terms of AC I am okay with just being an observer of history, as long as I have the GAMEPLAY freedom to do missions my way (Stealthy or Loud).

Fanani
03-25-2014, 03:13 AM
I didn't found AC3 and AC Black flag to have good stories at all!
I even considered not playing AC anymore. Haytham was the lamest templar ever, and Edward was not even an assassin. And Juno, wtf?

Of course the plots would be limited, the player would choose a few options, which could even come to the same ends, as templars and assassins both seek the same thing.
I think that could be really achievable, and would not be surprised if the game is already assembled like this.

Dome500
03-25-2014, 03:50 AM
Haytham was the lamest templar ever

Best Templar for me personally.


Edward was not even an assassin.

Well, that kind of was the point of the game.

Pirates were compared with Assassins since they had a similar concept, Edward starts as part of the pirates and gets to know their philosophies, he shares the urge for freedom, but money is more important to him. Over time he makes different experiences, more or less (unknowingly) searching for a place in life. He realizes at a point that in the end there is no one left standing beside him on the path he walks and he finds his place in life right in front of him, as part of the Assassins. He joins them (more or less), kills the 3 Templars and then he sails back to England.

It is an initiation story. It's basically like a book called: "Assassin philosophy and similar concepts from the outside, and how I came to join them" by Edward Kenway.

Anyway...


Of course the plots would be limited, the player would choose a few options, which could even come to the same ends, as templars and assassins both seek the same thing.
I think that could be really achievable, and would not be surprised if the game is already assembled like this.

The problem is they are completely different orders, completely different people and would have completely different plans even if it would come to the same end. The game would end up like the Witcher 2, where everything from Chapter 2 on is a completely different game based on your decision in Chapter one, just in the end the two storylines move closer together again.

Would mean they would basically have to do 2 Assassin Creed games in one.
But that's not the only problem.

Assassin_M
03-25-2014, 04:05 AM
so you're ok with just being an expectator, to not decide where you want to go, to not have your own beliefs and values?
I'm just saying that this could really be grander. I believe that a great story is much more important than awesome graphics, for example.
It must be lovely to participate in the creation of these games.
A good story does not necessarily include reader/player/spectator control. a HUGE amount of good stories are books...novels...They're on their own without choices given to the reader. Movies and films...they have no choices given to the spectator...You're not a spectator in video games, though...not by a long shot. sure, in AC you have no choices in how the story unfolds, but that by no means means that you have no control...

A great story =/= choices in the story..