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souNdwAve89
03-22-2014, 03:01 AM
According to Alex Amancio's Linkedin, he is the Creative Director for Assassin's Creed Unity. It looks like he has been the Creative Director since June 2012, which is surprising since he left Ubisoft after Revelations, only to be back now.


http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/alexandre-amancio/2/b4/225


http://i.imgur.com/wcd3Gk3.png

I-Like-Pie45
03-22-2014, 03:05 AM
Preorder cancelled

D.I.D.
03-22-2014, 03:05 AM
Well, I disliked everything about Revelations except the setting, but this isn't necessarily bad news. Assuming his team includes better mission designers now, he might do a particularly good job this time due to having tried and stumbled once before.

Skelface
03-22-2014, 03:06 AM
http://abload.de/img/ixhbh0suegqy0xojiu.gif

JustPlainQuirky
03-22-2014, 03:09 AM
I never played revelations yet (still investing in a PC to run it on steam) but these reactions are priceless. XD

Shahkulu101
03-22-2014, 03:09 AM
Den Defense atop Notre Dame!

Seriously though, kill me now.

JustPlainQuirky
03-22-2014, 03:11 AM
Can anyone tell me what's so bad about this creative director? :confused:

I-Like-Pie45
03-22-2014, 03:12 AM
confirmed:

french revolution + the great terror + defeat of Juno will all be DLC cut from the story priced at $9.99 each

ACfan443
03-22-2014, 03:15 AM
That thread title sent shivers down my spine.

I was kinda expecting it though, an untitled AC game was listed on his CV last year which somehow made it to the web, it's such a damn shame that title had to be unity.

Wolfmeister1010
03-22-2014, 03:15 AM
Guys, come on.

The creative director isn't the one who does everything.

I-Like-Pie45
03-22-2014, 03:19 AM
Guys, come on.

The creative director isn't the one who does everything.

yes

but WM

who will we pin all the blame on when things don't go the way we want them to?

Shahkulu101
03-22-2014, 03:19 AM
Guys, come on.

Do you remember it Wolf? Den defense! The 'revolutionary' hookblade... D-d-d - Desmond's journey!! *Breaks down - whaling with agonizing fury*

ACfan443
03-22-2014, 03:20 AM
Guys, come on.

The creative director isn't the one who does everything.

This creative director happened to just remove the very thing which was one of the key narrative components of ACR (hint: it was titled 'Revelations') and relegated it to priced DLC.

Skelface
03-22-2014, 03:20 AM
Guys, come on.

The creative director isn't the one who does everything.

But he's the creative director. :(

ze_topazio
03-22-2014, 03:22 AM
I don't know what to think, on one hand Rev was a well crafted game with some interesting ideas despite the limitations imposed by the one year development, on the other hand it had many strange decisions, and in another hand I only played the game once when it came out so I don't remember much of it, I need to replay Bro and Rev one of this days.

Wolfmeister1010
03-22-2014, 03:22 AM
Do you remember it Wolf? Den defense! The 'revolutionary' hookblade... D-d-d - Desmond's journey!! *Breaks down - whaling with agonizing fury*

Okay first of all, you used the wrong homophone lol. Second, the hook blade was not that bad. It basically did everything it said it would. It just wasn't revolutionary. The bombs, zip lines, assassin dens, Altair missions, were wonderful. The den defense thing is the ONE thing he did that was HIS fault entirely and he admitted it lol.

People are allowed to make mistakes.

Plus, he did not start out as creative director on unity. So that means that by the time he got there, they already knew exactly what they were going to do with the game

ze_topazio
03-22-2014, 03:24 AM
People are allowed to make mistakes

Not when I'm paying money for them. :cool:

D.I.D.
03-22-2014, 03:24 AM
Can anyone tell me what's so bad about this creative director? :confused:

He was dealt a bad hand, given a game to captain which wasn't even supposed to be a main console title. According to rumour, Revelations was planned as a minor handheld title which was then expanded suddenly into a full game for the main platforms.

Some people like it, but I will never understand why. It's not a game that wants to be played, or earns your interest in its story. They introduced bombs, which might have been good if it took any skill or judgement to use them, but the game made sure you could never miss or enjoy yourself. The arsenal of weaponry was insanely large, and the game became very "press X to win".

Then there was Den Defence. We're not going to talk about Den Defence. Also a ton of unintentionally humourous events. For instance, you're tasked by Ezio's love interest to retrieve a painting of her from the market stall owner in the busiest shopping area in the city. He refuses to sell it, so you have to think of a creative way to get it. I threw a bomb in there, murdering the vendor yet somehow leaving the painting unharmed. I brought it back to Ms. Love Interest, and she decided Ezio was quite the loveable rogue. FULL SYNC. THAT'S EXACTLY HOW EZIO DID IT, FOLKS. Then she asked me if I agreed that the painting is a good likeness. Here's the painting (Durer's "Portrait of a Lady"):

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111205113320/assassinscreed/images/7/78/Sofia's_portrait.jpg

Here's Sofia, the same character in the game:

http://www.gamerboobs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/ACR_SophiaSartorEnd.jpg

I think that character design did go through the bulls*** filter a few times, yes.

Then there was the fist fight while falling off a cliff for about 30 seconds...

... oh can I stop talking about this now please

JustPlainQuirky
03-22-2014, 03:30 AM
He was dealt a bad hand, given a game to captain which wasn't even supposed to be a main console title. According to rumour, Revelations was planned as a minor handheld title which was then expanded suddenly into a full game for the main platforms.

Some people like it, but I will never understand why. It's not a game that wants to be played, or earns your interest in its story. They introduced bombs, which might have been good if it took any skill or judgement to use them, but the game made sure you could never miss or enjoy yourself. The arsenal of weaponry was insanely large, and the game became very "press X to win".

Then there was Den Defence. We're not going to talk about Den Defence. Also a ton of unintentionally humourous events. For instance, you're tasked by Ezio's love interest to retrieve a painting of her from the market stall owner in the busiest shopping area in the city. He refuses to sell it, so you have to think of a creative way to get it. I threw a bomb in there, murdering the vendor yet somehow leaving the painting unharmed. I brought it back to Ms. Love Interest, and she decided Ezio was quite the loveable rogue. FULL SYNC. THAT'S EXACTLY HOW EZIO DID IT, FOLKS. Then she asked me if I agreed that the painting is a good likeness. Here's the painting (Durer's "Portrait of a Lady"):

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111205113320/assassinscreed/images/7/78/Sofia's_portrait.jpg

Here's Sofia, the same character in the game:

http://www.gamerboobs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/ACR_SophiaSartorEnd.jpg

I think that character design did go through the bulls*** filter a few times, yes.

Then there was the fist fight while falling off a cliff for about 30 seconds...

... oh can I stop talking about this now please

The bolded part made me LOL XD

But what is this Den Defence everyone is hating on?

Shahkulu101
03-22-2014, 03:31 AM
Okay first of all, you used the wrong homophone lol. Second, the hook blade was not that bad. It basically did everything it said it would. It just wasn't revolutionary. The bombs, zip lines, assassin dens, Altair missions, were wonderful. The den defense thing is the ONE thing he did that was HIS fault entirely and he admitted it lol.

People are allowed to make mistakes.

Plus, he did not start out as creative director on unity. So that means that by the time he got there, they already knew exactly what they were going to do with the game

Yes but not the behemoth of a mistake that is ACR. And you're forgetting this guy relegated the actual 'Revelations' part to possibly the worst single player DLC of all time.

Wolfmeister1010
03-22-2014, 03:33 AM
Yes but not the behemoth of a mistake that is ACR. And you're forgetting this guy relegated the actual 'Revelations' part to possibly the worst single player DLC of all time.

How do we know that was completely his decision lol

Shahkulu101
03-22-2014, 03:34 AM
The bolded part made me LOL XD

But what is this Den Defence everyone is hating on?

All units in. We have a civilian trying to discuss forbidden material. Call on all forces in to neutralize target.

D.I.D.
03-22-2014, 03:34 AM
The bolded part made me LOL XD

But what is this Den Defence everyone is hating on?

I honestly don't know how many NPCs I killed in that romantic terrorist attack on the shopping mall. There were so many screams.

Matt.mc
03-22-2014, 03:35 AM
Wow did not realize revelations got this much hate. I loved it. It was by the best narrative of the franchise. Come on, if the ending with altiar, ezio and desmond didn't make you cry than you're dead inside.

The bomb crafting was extraordinary, Altiar missions, while fairly short, were very well done. The hookblade was really fun, zip lining everywhere, takedowns etc. I will admit the climbing with the hookblade was a bit much.

I am actually excited about this. It means (hopefully) that the narrative will be good (unlike ac3).

souNdwAve89
03-22-2014, 03:36 AM
He was dealt a bad hand, given a game to captain which wasn't even supposed to be a main console title. According to rumour, Revelations was planned as a minor handheld title which was then expanded suddenly into a full game for the main platforms.

Some people like it, but I will never understand why. It's not a game that wants to be played, or earns your interest in its story. They introduced bombs, which might have been good if it took any skill or judgement to use them, but the game made sure you could never miss or enjoy yourself. The arsenal of weaponry was insanely large, and the game became very "press X to win".

Then there was Den Defence. We're not going to talk about Den Defence. Also a ton of unintentionally humourous events. For instance, you're tasked by Ezio's love interest to retrieve a painting of her from the market stall owner in the busiest shopping area in the city. He refuses to sell it, so you have to think of a creative way to get it. I threw a bomb in there, murdering the vendor yet somehow leaving the painting unharmed. I brought it back to Ms. Love Interest, and she decided Ezio was quite the loveable rogue. FULL SYNC. THAT'S EXACTLY HOW EZIO DID IT, FOLKS. Then she asked me if I agreed that the painting is a good likeness. Here's the painting (Durer's "Portrait of a Lady"):


It wasn't a rumor. They confirmed that it was originally a Nintendo 3DS titled "Assassin's Creed Lost Legacy". The concept is the same with Ezio traveling to Masyaf to learn more about Altair's history. I don't know the rest, but we can assume that Brotherhood's development was going well enough for them to change the development of Lost Legacy to Revelations for consoles.

I personally don't hate Revelations, but it's at the bottom of the list when ranking the main games for me. I liked the story, but I encountered bugs/glitches in Revelations more than other AC games. I don't know about others, but I found Revelations to be more rough in terms of textures, frame frates, etc. I don't know if it's because I played on the PS3. I found some aspects of the game to be a little lazy such as majority of the NPC's having the same model, but different voices, hair, and eye color. I appreciate that Revelations made you feel more like a Mentor since all the Turkish Assassins respected you, and how they modified the Assassin guild mechanics even more.

I rarely used the bombs unless I needed to for full sync, so it wasn't a big deal for me. The hookblade was cool, but it was kinda clunky when using it to free run and fighting. I thought the game very easy to. There are missions where you had to retrieve a key from a guard. Instead of assassinating him, and looting him, you can just throw a throwing knife at him, and you automatically the key... wtf?!

TheHumanTowel
03-22-2014, 03:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdh_ISiBC-I

JustPlainQuirky
03-22-2014, 03:39 AM
I still don't know what was wrong with Den Defence :eek:

ACfan443
03-22-2014, 03:40 AM
How do we know that was completely his decision lol

Podcast/interview somewhere, and yes it was entirely his decision.

souNdwAve89
03-22-2014, 03:42 AM
I still don't know what was wrong with Den Defence :eek:

I didn't find anything wrong with it per se, but a lot of people found it very out there for a game called Assassin's Creed. The Turkish Assassins practically waged war in the streets of Constantinople. The Templars sent wave after wave of soldiers along with armored battering ram vehicles. Not to mention Ezio had the ability to call in mortar strikes, which can be LOL at times.

Here's an example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cPuJi6gTFQ

Matt.mc
03-22-2014, 03:42 AM
Wow..after not being on these gaming forums for a while and coming back...it's sad. So much "yell now, think later."

D.I.D.
03-22-2014, 03:46 AM
I still don't know what was wrong with Den Defence :eek:

I said we weren't going to talk about it, but okay then.

Do you like Tower Defence games, like Kingdom Rush? Revelations tried to feed on the popularity of TD browser games by making a 3d version of that. A flood of soldiers and the occasional war machine would come down the street to your hideout, and we'd have to repel them by filling the rooftops with assassins and mashing the controller with our stupid effing paws. People either found this insultingly easy or they died because they didn't understand what was going on, but there was no shame in that since nobody was dying through any lack of skill. Skill was irrelevant to Revelations.

Kaschra
03-22-2014, 03:46 AM
Some people like it, but I will never understand why. It's not a game that wants to be played, or earns your interest in its story. They introduced bombs, which might have been good if it took any skill or judgement to use them, but the game made sure you could never miss or enjoy yourself. The arsenal of weaponry was insanely large, and the game became very "press X to win".

Then there was Den Defence. We're not going to talk about Den Defence. Also a ton of unintentionally humourous events. For instance, you're tasked by Ezio's love interest to retrieve a painting of her from the market stall owner in the busiest shopping area in the city. He refuses to sell it, so you have to think of a creative way to get it. I threw a bomb in there, murdering the vendor yet somehow leaving the painting unharmed. I brought it back to Ms. Love Interest, and she decided Ezio was quite the loveable rogue. FULL SYNC. THAT'S EXACTLY HOW EZIO DID IT, FOLKS. Then she asked me if I agreed that the painting is a good likeness. Here's the painting (Durer's "Portrait of a Lady"):


And I will never understand the hate Den Defense gets, like seriously, you have to play it ONCE.
ONCE, dammit.
And after that, you can assign your master assassins to the dens, or simply don't get notorious, and you don't need to play it ever again.
Oh, did I mention that I actually quite like Den Defense?
And I also love the hookblade. And the bombs.

JustPlainQuirky
03-22-2014, 03:47 AM
I didn't find anything wrong with it per se, but a lot of people found it very out there for a game called Assassin's Creed. The Turkish Assassins practically waged war in the streets of Constantinople. The Templars sent wave after wave of soldiers along with armored battering ram vehicles. Not to mention Ezio had the ability to call in mortar strikes, which can be LOL at times.

Here's an example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cPuJi6gTFQ

was funny to watch. Is it mandatory or optional? :)

souNdwAve89
03-22-2014, 03:49 AM
was funny to watch. Is it mandatory or optional? :)

Mandatory the first time as it's apart of the story a little, then it becomes optional.

HDinHB
03-22-2014, 03:50 AM
But what is this Den Defence everyone is hating on?

The first rule of Den Defense...you do not talk about Den Defense.
The second rule of Den Defense...you do not talk about Den Defense.

You can Google it. On the other hand, the first person modern day made Den Defense look not so bad.

And I liked Revelations.

D.I.D.
03-22-2014, 03:50 AM
And I will never understand the hate Den Defense gets, like seriously, you have to play it ONCE.
ONCE, dammit.
And after that, you can assign your master assassins to the dens, or simply don't get notorious, and you don't need to play it ever again.
Oh, did I mention that I actually quite like Den Defense?
And I also love the hookblade. And the bombs.

When your motivation to remain on low notoriety is so that you DON'T have to play the new gameplay mode, there's something wrong. It was naked filler, and the game was bulging with filler, designed to do nothing but distract you from how little the game had to offer. That boat mission in the cave, where you just had to hold forwards and the jump button. So many awful things.

Kaschra
03-22-2014, 04:00 AM
When your motivation to remain on low notoriety is so that you DON'T have to play the new gameplay mode, there's something wrong. It was naked filler, and the game was bulging with filler, designed to do nothing but distract you from how little the game had to offer. That boat mission in the cave, where you just had to hold forwards and the jump button. So many awful things.
Then assign the freaking assassins to the dens and bam, your "problem" is gone.
Or you could just ignore it... well, unless you want to keep that area of the city of course.
There's no need to whine that much.

Consus_E
03-22-2014, 04:01 AM
I wonder if Unity was a mobile game before he started work on it... JK

When I think about the short development time Revelations had it becomes the single most impressive AC game ever IMO. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this will turn out... Provided they don't remove the main point of the game and turn it into bad First Person DLC...

HDinHB
03-22-2014, 04:03 AM
And I will never understand the hate Den Defense gets, like seriously, you have to play it ONCE.
ONCE, dammit.

You were forced to play it ONCE, but you had to do it once perfectly for a trophy and three times for a challenge. And then I never played it again.


When your motivation to remain on low notoriety is so that you DON'T have to play the new gameplay mode, there's something wrong. It was naked filler, and the game was bulging with filler, designed to do nothing but distract you from how little the game had to offer.

But it was poorly implemented.

frodrigues55
03-22-2014, 04:03 AM
OH MY GOD IS THIS TRUE? All the excitment I had from the day just vanished with this just one thread :(

I hope he went trhough intensive training because this made did Revelations no favor. I'm actually happy that we won't have modern day because I could never handle more of that crap he stuff into Revelations. That was seriously my first WTF AC moment in the series. If he managed to do that when the modern day plot had a protagonists, can you imagine what he is doing now that all we have are floating cameras? He made it pretty clear he loves those.

Revelations side activities sucked *** too, as little as they were. I don't even remember if the game had assassination contracts, but everything else was just a huge fail. He managed to ruin the city upgrading system with that notority system tied to those horrible den defense mimigame. I remember some book missions which were very weird. Side activities lacked balance and the game felt so empty. I'm pretty sure everything I didn't like on Revelations came down to the responsability of the creative director. Even the soundtrack bores me.

I'm hoping his problem was just time constraints and lack of budget. Fingers crossed he is the best guy for the job once resources come in.

It will be interesting to see how Unity will fit into the franchise and what it's the game part for Ubisoft - if a major tittle or just a gap filler. They have tons of great games coming up. After having two big numbered tittles in a row, I wonder if the lack of numbers means this game will be a minor one.

I know it sounds a bit ridiculous to wonder this just because of the director, but that one really got me worried lol. What's next? Soundtrack by the ones who worked on that annoying Liberation tunes?

D.I.D.
03-22-2014, 04:12 AM
Then assign the freaking assassins to the dens and bam, your "problem" is gone.
Or you could just ignore it... well, unless you want to keep that area of the city of course.
There's no need to whine that much.

I was replying to a repeated question about Den Defence. It's not the biggest issue I had with the game, by a long chalk. From my perspective, there's so little it got right. I'm guessing from your avatar that you won't agree, but what they did to Subject 16 was bizarre: that twitchy, super-intelligent, damaged guy became this surly dudebro all of a sudden, and it killed everything they'd built up about him for me.

There was one decent mini-mission to protect the herald, that required a bit of problem-solving, and the mission to enter the palace undetected was quite good depending on how you played it.

frodrigues55
03-22-2014, 04:13 AM
was funny to watch. Is it mandatory or optional? :)

It worked hand in hand with a bunch of other useless systems, they were all tied up.

You couldn't renovate buildings within certain regions which were under the influence of the Templar dens. So you had to claim those dens, which were ok to do.

Thing is, once you start renovating the region, your notority rises. The higher your notority was, the higher were the chances the Templars claimed their towers back. To stop this, you had to do the den defense minigame. That crap was so boring that most people had to play with an eye on notority to prevent the minigame from happening, by bribing your way down as soon as it rose a bit. It was very tedious.

There was an alternative, though, which was to train your assassins recruits to the highest rank. Once that happen, you could assign them to the dens so they could never be attacked again. But that took a while to happen and the lack of secondary missions prevented you from having something to do while the assassins were being trained.

egriffin09
03-22-2014, 04:18 AM
Damn. My expectations for this game just went down. I can't believe this..just wow. I wonder what Jade's role is in this game? Hopefully he has learned alot since revelations.

souNdwAve89
03-22-2014, 04:19 AM
Damn. My expectations for this game just went down. I can't believe this..just wow. I wonder what Jade's role is in this game? Hopefully he has learned alot since revelations.

I would assume she would be back as an Executive Producer like in AC1 and AC2. If anything, she might be working on the second AC game, if the rumors of 2 AC games is true.

HDinHB
03-22-2014, 04:27 AM
Damn. My expectations for this game just went down. I can't believe this..just wow. I wonder what Jade's role is in this game? Hopefully he has learned alot since revelations.

Apparently, this is Jade's favorite historical period, so I would think she'd want to play around in it. And I'm sure the game will be fine. Revelations was actually really good, if you leave out the bits I didn't like.

egriffin09
03-22-2014, 04:34 AM
He better not mess this game up. I did want random events as side missions, know I just want side missions period, revelation hardly had any side content and it was boring side content at that. The way I see it, Unity needs to have side content better than black flag (the best side content of the series imo). Oh, and this game better be atleast 12 sequences.

Dome500
03-22-2014, 05:04 AM
Well, aside from the den defense I really liked Revelations.

Liked the mystic tone, setting and atmosphere.
The story was "okay" and a very good ending for Ezio actually IMO.

So nothing to complain here, especially since Creative Director =/= Development Team. Which basically means you can not judge a single person for a game.

Also, I think Revelations was better than AC3 and better than ACB. So yeah, pretty much average AC expectations here.
It might not be an AC2 or AC4 (but then again, it could be one, you'll never know), but it will certainly be an above average one IMO.



I don't know what to think, on one hand Rev was a well crafted game with some interesting ideas despite the limitations imposed by the one year development, on the other hand it had many strange decisions, and in another hand I only played the game once when it came out so I don't remember much of it, I need to replay Bro and Rev one of this days.


Also, this.

The game only had 1 year development. VS 2,5 - 3 years for Assassins Creed Unity. Think about it guys. More time, different development team. They had good ideas in Revelations, despite some weird design decisions (tower defense, Desmonds journey).

There was the Recruit Missions, Ezios journey, the underground city, the ziplines (I liked ziplines for that game, it fitted), the Outfit, Altair's story, the Assassins Dens, the pursuers who attacked you once in a while, even some of the bombs were cool, and a lot of other stuff they did. And they did this in 1 year.


threw a bomb in there, murdering the vendor yet somehow leaving the painting unharmed. I brought it back to Ms. Love Interest, and she decided Ezio was quite the loveable rogue. FULL SYNC.

Yo are aware that this is just a gameplay exploit? I think no one ever considered you would throw a bomb there... also, intractable objects were never destroyable in Assassins Creed as far as I know...


And I will never understand the hate Den Defense gets, like seriously, you have to play it ONCE.
ONCE, dammit.
And after that, you can assign your master assassins to the dens, or simply don't get notorious, and you don't need to play it ever again.

This. I don't like den defense, but this basically. I was never notorious in ANY AC game anyway as far as this was possible.


But it was poorly implemented.

It was, but at least you didn't have to use it more than 1 or 2 times. I played it maybe 3 times in the whole game man...


There was an alternative, though, which was to train your assassins recruits to the highest rank. Once that happen, you could assign them to the dens so they could never be attacked again. But that took a while to happen and the lack of secondary missions prevented you from having something to do while the assassins were being trained.

Agreed. Lack of secondary missions was a problem.

Bu seriously guys, I think they learned what they did wrong with the previous games. Give them a second chance. If Unity is messed up then we can start rioting. But Revelations was not THAT bad...

Just give him a chance.

DumbGamerTag94
03-22-2014, 05:14 AM
I was not a fan of ACR in my opinion it is one of the worst in the series(maybe that's a little harsh though). I feel It did 2 things very very well. 1....Choice of setting. Constantinople was beautiful and felt like one of the most immersive and alive cities of the series. 2.....Finished what they started. They provided a very nice ending to Ezio's career and tied in the end of Altiar's career and life also. The game provided closure for all the main characters they had created at the time and that I loved about ACR. Other than these two things I felt ACR was fairly bad and forgettable in terms of overall story(I was more interested with the sub plot of the Masyaf library and Altiar's final years than with any of the Byzantine/Ottoman conflict main plot). There was not many big name figures, Hookblade was overpowered, Not a fan of Den Defense, not a very long story, I could go on for a while about the misses in ACR but they did nail the two aspects I listed so well that I still give the game a good 7 or 8 out of 10, but it does not rank very high on my list of favorite AC games. Just my opinions but i'm sure im not the only one.

Oh I forgot to add the third thing they did right. The random attacks by people were the closet thing to true random events we've had in AC.

Rugterwyper32
03-22-2014, 05:23 AM
Well, aside from the den defense I really liked Revelations.

Liked the mystic tone, setting and atmosphere.
The story was "okay" and a very good ending for Ezio actually IMO.

So nothing to complain here, especially since Creative Director =/= Development Team. Which basically means you can not judge a single person for a game.

Also, I think Revelations was better than AC3 and better than ACB. So yeah, pretty much average AC expectations here.
It might not be an AC2 or AC4 (but then again, it could be one, you'll never know), but it will certainly be an above average one IMO.



Also, this.

The game only had 1 year development. VS 2,5 - 3 years for Assassins Creed Unity. Think about it guys. More time, different development team. They had good ideas in Revelations, despite some weird design decisions (tower defense, Desmonds journey).

There was the Recruit Missions, Ezios journey, the underground city, the ziplines (I liked ziplines for that game, it fitted), the Outfit, Altair's story, the Assassins Dens, the pursuers who attacked you once in a while, even some of the bombs were cool, and a lot of other stuff they did. And they did this in 1 year.



Yo are aware that this is just a gameplay exploit? I think no one ever considered you would throw a bomb there... also, intractable objects were never destroyable in Assassins Creed as far as I know...

I can agree with this. For a game that started as a launch window 3DS game and was turned into a full fledged main game in a year, it's actually quite impressive. The story quite obviously had to be changed quite a lot which made inconsistencies, but we have to remember it originally wouldn't have advanced the main story at all and a lot of people here (as far as I remember) have theorized the "Desmond coma" would have been solved after the Haytham revelation (which made a hell of a lot more sense).
But the game did have good ideas. In fact, take out the silly den defense minigame when it comes to templar dens and you have a really nice concept there. And for a game designed in a year, the city design was really solid.

Dev_Anj
03-22-2014, 05:29 AM
So, does anyone think Den Defense would have been good if instead of being a tower defense game, you could control Ezio and make him move and fight, while placing Assassins in strategic positions? Of course the implementation of Den Defense was silly, but the concept of defending your hideout isn't bad.

roostersrule2
03-22-2014, 05:39 AM
This guy seemed like such a badass, maybe it was his Ezio beard but yea even though I liked ACR he made some pretty bad decisions. Hopefully he learnt from them and with better hardware and a way longer dev cycle it's surely going to be better.

pirate1802
03-22-2014, 06:00 AM
Oh, did I mention that I actually quite like Den Defense?

WHAT!!!

And all these years... I tormented myself with the thought that I was a ****** to like a feature everyone and their mothers hate :( *emotional breakdown*


Anyhow, since I actually liked Revelations (sure it didn't have many "assassiny" missions, but that accusation can be leveled on a good number of ACs, including AC2) I have absolutely no problem with its creative director helming Unity. Roll on!

kosmoscreed
03-22-2014, 06:18 AM
I think ACR was a solid game, but I will advice Mr. Amancio to not oversell the features of the game like he did with ACR (hook blade, zip lines...).

souNdwAve89
03-22-2014, 06:34 AM
I think ACR was a solid game, but I will advice Mr. Amancio to not oversell the features of the game like he did with ACR (hook blade, zip lines...).

Well, to be fair, he had to promote Revelations' new mechanics or else casuals, or people who don't follow games too much will think that Revelations is like past AC games with no changes. I mean, some can argue that, but I do give the Revelations team props for trying something new. Same goes to the AC3 team tackling the American Revolution and being the first game to utilize AnvilNext.

SixKeys
03-22-2014, 08:00 AM
ACR wasn't the worst game in the franchise, that honor goes to AC3. I'm not sure how much blame to place on Alex Amancio. A lot of bad decisions were made during development - I will never forgive them for The Lost Archive - but keep in mind they only had 10 months to develop what started out as a handheld DS title into a full console game. IMO the script was a worse offender than Den Defense. I could ignore Den Defense, after all, but I could not ignore the awful script. After ACR, it was Darby who I distrusted most, but he redeemed himself (somewhat) with AC4. Maybe because that game got a proper 2-year development period and they didn't just have to haphazardly throw in whatever they could think of to justify a $60 price tag. So there is hope for Amancio.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
03-22-2014, 08:09 AM
You know? Honestly.... Revelations has grown on me.

I really didn't like it the first time around because I thoughts bombs were an unnecessary addition (I literally never used them except the first time you have to) and Den Defence was the most asinine addition ever. I thought the game felt rushed as Desmond's story was just halted and it felt like they had no idea what to do with his story. Judging from AC3, it seems like they never figured it out. I also hated how Desmond inexplicably looked completely different. I hated the hook blade and how it sped up climbing, I hated the look of the armors, I hated the Armor of Ishak Pasha, etc.

Having just gone back and replayed it -- it's grown on me. Den Defence is abhorrent but tracking and assassinating the den leaders is really fun AND pretty challenging with the amount of guards patrolling and all the snipers. The graphics were a nice upgrade from AC2 and ACB (AC2's graphics were pretty shiny and plastic-y while ACB didn't really up the graphics too much aside from ditching that weird fake look... it definitely looks a LOT better than AC2 but some of the faces look more or less the same but Revelations revamped it considerably. Constantinople is actually a WONDERFUL city. I think I like it more than Rome. I think that also has a bit to do with being kinda burned out with Italian Renaissance architecture but the verticality of how the city is entirely sloped, the look was fairly fresh, ziplines were a cool addition and were the only cool use of the hook blade, the story is good IMO (I thought that the first time though) and loved the flashbacks to Altair (I prefer ACR's voice as well and it helped flesh him out more so he wasn't just an impatient knob like the was in the first game) and the ending with Altair in the chair and Ezio finding him... heart strings were pulled. I also think it wrapped up Ezio's story rather neatly and gave him a happy ending which is nice because Altair's story is kind of depressing throughout his entire life and Connor's....well, we know what happened to the Natives eventually.

Oh... and running around as Altair in this game makes the most sense compared to AC2, ACB, AC3, AC4... the architecture just fit better. Also... best Altair robes ever. Seriously...how did they eff them up so badly in AC3 and AC4??

Kirokill
03-22-2014, 08:25 AM
And I will never understand the hate Den Defense gets, like seriously, you have to play it ONCE.
ONCE, dammit.
And after that, you can assign your master assassins to the dens, or simply don't get notorious, and you don't need to play it ever again.
Oh, did I mention that I actually quite like Den Defense?
And I also love the hookblade. And the bombs.

And I was the one who was craving to play this den defense game more, wondering how the hell could you activate it.
Both hookblade and bombs did interest me.

king-hailz
03-22-2014, 09:15 AM
Yes but not the behemoth of a mistake that is ACR. And you're forgetting this guy relegated the actual 'Revelations' part to possibly the worst single player DLC of all time.
I am so confused, I personally thought constantinople was one of the best looking cities which was really fun to free run across... and the story was absolutely AMAZING especially the ending... but it did have its game play problems... just be happy it isn't Alex Hutchinson who thought the American revolutionary cities were more interesting the Egyptian and Japanese settings...

king-hailz
03-22-2014, 09:28 AM
Also if it started as a 3ds game then a lot of those features wouldn't have been in the game... He must have quickly thought up random new features they could ad in a new main game... so as he has 3-4 years developing this new game I think he will have a lot of time to see what works and what doesn't... I am guessing ac3 and ac4 helped him out a lot by how they were received also I am pretty sure he will get help from other people who have done wonders for this series...

Will_Lucky
03-22-2014, 09:32 AM
I told you guys this months ago :P.

dxsxhxcx
03-22-2014, 09:32 AM
Revelations had a potential that wasn't used and some bad decisions were made but who knows, maybe he learned from (what I consider) his mistakes and will do better this time

Farlander1991
03-22-2014, 10:42 AM
ACR had a lot of things going for it, though.

The hookblade provided the basics of 'alternatives' for parkour, no longer you just press a button - you have choices (i.e., hold a button to jump further, or don't to turn around the lamp, as well as to use or not use ziplines), which I think is a concept that should be expanded upon.
The bomb system, while having a lot of redundancies, provided means for customization of the way you wanted to play and manipulating the environment.
The Assassin Mentoring side-missions that provide more connection to your recruits.
Even though I agree that relegating Lucy revelation to a DLC is VERY questionable, ACR is the game where we have seen pretty much the most character development out of Desmond in the whole series until that point, and I think it's hard to argue that people would like the MAIN character of the whole modern day story to not be that static.
Such a little ability as being able to go side-by-side with the people you talk because in all other games that's pretty much impossible due to a difference in NPC/Player speed :p (okay, this is a VERY minor thing, but it was so comfortable!)

Plus a bunch of other little things.

Yes, it's far from perfect and has questionable decisions, but it was a game that had suddenly got to be made and had only 10 months to do so and still has got things that other games in the series could and should base things on.

Will_Lucky
03-22-2014, 11:40 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first time we've had a Creative Director work on more than a single title since Patrice left? From that viewpoint its actually not so bad that some consistency has happened.

killzab
03-22-2014, 11:44 AM
I don't really mind.

The Lost Archives thing was unacceptable. But I loved Revelations otherwise. It clicked for me.

If it was Hutchinson working on the game however, NOW I would be worried. I hate that game. Just to think of him working on Unity, I am getting shivers.

ArabianFrost
03-22-2014, 11:53 AM
I quite liked Amancio's interviews. He seemed like there was some potential behind him, but I don't really know what to feel, so I hope the extra time does him a great favour. ACR was a solid Action/Adventure but a very average AC game. Here's to hoping he realizes the importance of the game's pillars as much as Ashraf did.

lothario-da-be
03-22-2014, 11:57 AM
I like what he did with revelations, and how the game was so good for such a short dev time. But he better doesn't pull of another lost archive.
That was the worst thing that happend to ac imo.

Sushiglutton
03-22-2014, 12:14 PM
Have said it before, but I really don't feel comfortable picking out individual people and criticizing them. It's hard for us to know who did what and the conditions they worked under. I do think some of the decisions made for Revelations were poor though. Let's hope he/they have learned from them. The misstakes as I see them:

1) Include things that don't match the rest of the game (den defense + FP puzzle/platforming).
2) Not cutting enough old systems (example renovating shops again)
3) Not dealing with the biggest twist in the franchise in the main campaign, which effectively killed the modern day story for me.
4) Some very linear missions
5) Low quality gimmicky mini-mechanics (getting dragged behind a carriage, "flying").


But like I said it's hard to know who exactly did these things and why. Also ofc what they have learned.

shobhit7777777
03-22-2014, 01:46 PM
Assassin's Creed Revelations combines the absolute worst of the series with the absolute best
I absolutely hate some of the things in ACR and the overall direction....but I cannot ignore the fact that in terms of core gameplay it was the absolute pinnacle

Alex Amancio's return is fantastic news for me.

Civona
03-22-2014, 01:55 PM
ACR had one year of dev and ambitions that were suited to more than one year of dev.

Anyways, not fair to blame one person for something not being as well-executed as it could have been. In big complex projects, sometimes things just don't turn out that great.
Besides, Revelations did a lot of things right, (the story is probably the most solid overall of any AC game.) and introduced some cool things that wasn't in other games. (no, I'm not talking about den defence, though that wasn't as bad as you all say.)

egriffin09
03-22-2014, 02:24 PM
I thought Revelations had the full 2 year dev cycle like the other AC games. Now that people have said it only was in development for 1 year, now I understand why it felt rushed, well because it was. Like some else said, Alex's return does show some Ubi using same director since Patrice and Alex has a full dev cycle to work on this game so I feel better now because he won't be rushed to make a full game in half the time like revelations.

Farlander1991
03-22-2014, 02:29 PM
Now that people have said it only was in development for 1 year, now I understand why it felt rushed, well because it was.

Even less than 1 year - 10 months.

Will_Lucky
03-22-2014, 02:57 PM
To an extent the Story and Location were more fleshed out beforehand, I recall some Constantinople art showing up in 2009 for example. But yeah the actual heavy work lasted 10 months.

egriffin09
03-22-2014, 03:01 PM
Even less than 1 year - 10 months.

So the guy wasn't given a fair shake for Revelations. Now I understand, Revelations wasn't his fault, he did what he could with the time he had. To say he was only given 10 months, Revelations turned out pretty good. Given a 2 year cycle like the other AC's, Revelations might have been the best in the franchise because the extra year could haven't been used to flush out some of the ideas in Revelations.

I remember watching his interviews, he had some great ideas, the poor guy and the rest of the team that worked on Revelations just didn't have time to execute them. Now he has time with AC Unity so I think he will do a great job tbh.

Dome500
03-22-2014, 03:11 PM
So the guy wasn't given a fair shake for Revelations. Now I understand, Revelations wasn't his fault, he did what he could with the time he had. To say he was only given 10 months, Revelations turned out pretty good. Given a 2 year cycle like the other AC's, Revelations might have been the best in the franchise because the extra year could haven't been used to flush out some of the ideas in Revelations.

I remember watching his interviews, he had some great ideas, the poor guy and the rest of the team that worked on Revelations just didn't have time to execute them. Now he has time with AC Unity so I think he will do a great job tbh.

Actually Brotherhood also didn't have a "full development cycle". That's why the ACB and ACR were considered "milking the franchise", because peopel starte to see a declice and a shorter development cycle. Then AC3 came around and said "we have been working on it for 3 years". Well, we saw how that turned out to be... But in the end I think AC4 and AC2 still prove that a longer development cycle (the one they did adopt now) is a must have. But yes, Revelations had the shortest of all AC games. And in that light, it's actually not that bad. IMO it's better than AC3, ACB or ACL, at least in terms of story, core gameplay, outfits, character progression (Desmond, Altair, Ezio) and some nice new ideas (although others were awful :D (Tower Defense, etc))


You know? Honestly.... Revelations has grown on me.

I really didn't like it the first time around because I thoughts bombs were an unnecessary addition (I literally never used them except the first time you have to) and Den Defence was the most asinine addition ever. I thought the game felt rushed as Desmond's story was just halted and it felt like they had no idea what to do with his story. Judging from AC3, it seems like they never figured it out. I also hated how Desmond inexplicably looked completely different. I hated the hook blade and how it sped up climbing, I hated the look of the armors, I hated the Armor of Ishak Pasha, etc.

Having just gone back and replayed it -- it's grown on me. Den Defence is abhorrent but tracking and assassinating the den leaders is really fun AND pretty challenging with the amount of guards patrolling and all the snipers. The graphics were a nice upgrade from AC2 and ACB (AC2's graphics were pretty shiny and plastic-y while ACB didn't really up the graphics too much aside from ditching that weird fake look... it definitely looks a LOT better than AC2 but some of the faces look more or less the same but Revelations revamped it considerably. Constantinople is actually a WONDERFUL city. I think I like it more than Rome. I think that also has a bit to do with being kinda burned out with Italian Renaissance architecture but the verticality of how the city is entirely sloped, the look was fairly fresh, ziplines were a cool addition and were the only cool use of the hook blade, the story is good IMO (I thought that the first time though) and loved the flashbacks to Altair (I prefer ACR's voice as well and it helped flesh him out more so he wasn't just an impatient knob like the was in the first game) and the ending with Altair in the chair and Ezio finding him... heart strings were pulled. I also think it wrapped up Ezio's story rather neatly and gave him a happy ending which is nice because Altair's story is kind of depressing throughout his entire life and Connor's....well, we know what happened to the Natives eventually.

Oh... and running around as Altair in this game makes the most sense compared to AC2, ACB, AC3, AC4... the architecture just fit better. Also... best Altair robes ever. Seriously...how did they eff them up so badly in AC3 and AC4??


Assassin's Creed Revelations combines the absolute worst of the series with the absolute best
I absolutely hate some of the things in ACR and the overall direction....but I cannot ignore the fact that in terms of core gameplay it was the absolute pinnacle


Agreed on both.

VoXngola
03-22-2014, 03:26 PM
Am I the only one who is happy about this? I liked really liked ACR and look forward to what he does to Unity.

I'll take him over Hutchinson any day.

Hans684
03-22-2014, 03:29 PM
I'll take him over Hutchinson any day.

Agree.

egriffin09
03-22-2014, 03:34 PM
I'll take him over Hutchinson any day.

Definitely agree 100%.

Jayden_TSoni
03-22-2014, 04:01 PM
Revelations = 6 months

Unity = 3 years

Don't be scared, guys. And you hope that Hutchinson did not come back.. :D

VoXngola
03-22-2014, 04:18 PM
Revelations = 6 months

Unity = 3 years

Don't be scared, guys. And you hope that Hutchinson did not come back.. :D

Yes, give him a chance.

DumbGamerTag94
03-22-2014, 04:21 PM
I may be on my own here but I felt that despite absolutely nailing Constantinople, Random assassination attempts on Ezio, and ending Ezio and Altiar's stories, ACR was boring and just bad. I felt the entire story After the Masyaf into missions was horrible until near the very end, from about the Greek Fire part to the very end, and that part was just choppy and jumped around from action mission to action mission probably just to wake up the player for the Ending. And on top of all that the stoy was very very short anyway and like 1/4 of it is spend on a stupid love story with Sofia. As far as my own personal taste I felt ACR while it did have the ending to Ezio and Altiar which I found nice, ultimately I wont put ACR to the top of my list based mainly on things played out in cut scenes. Replayability wise I felt ACR was the worst. I play through the whole series every time a new one comes out and ACR always feels boring and rather like a chore. ACB not far behind. For all of AC3's faults(and there are a lot of them) I do feel they made a game that was overall rather fun and highly replayable.(shoot me if you must) The vast majority of issues with AC3 were to do with the story and its plot holes and over exaggerations, but that and its several other faults still in mind it is still very fun to me anyway.

I feel on a scale of things that bother me about nitpicky things AC3 ranks as the Worst and ACR ranks fairly high. My scale of games with issues that bothered me with worst at the end and best at begining would look like this.
1. AC2(only because it looks worse than other ACs and most else is good)
2.ACB(felt right to me I liked the assassins could help you, decent plot)
3.ACR
4.AC4(seeing through things was annoying)
5.AC1
6.AC3
7.ACLiberationHD(you cant even run fast(you can walk or fast jog its rather annoying) this one doesn't technically count but I included it on the list probably unfairly since it was a vita game first.

Now in order of most fun((in my opinion) all other things ignored just the replay factor and scale/action packed-ness of missions)
1.AC4
2.AC3
3.AC2
4.ACB
5.AC1
6.ACR
7.ACLiberationHD(once again probably unfairly but still it was pretty bad all around IMO)

When you rank them based on the two different scales like I did ACR and AC3 almost trade places. And for me how fun a game is better than any nitpicks about gameplay mechanics or plot holes etc. But that's just me. Am I the only one here who thinks this or is everyone so preoccupied with details that they don't consider how fun each is as a whole, because when I do that my rankings change drastically.

JustPlainQuirky
03-22-2014, 04:27 PM
What did Hutchinson do wrong?

I-Like-Pie45
03-22-2014, 04:29 PM
because he was the creative director of AC3

Farlander1991
03-22-2014, 04:30 PM
Actually Brotherhood also didn't have a "full development cycle".

It still was bigger than Revelation's, AND had a benefit of reusing like half of AC2's assets. AND the team for ACB already knew how to work with the toolsets used for AC games, while most of the ACR team was new and had to learn it on the fly. Plus ACB was based on cut out concepts of AC2 (Rome was supposed to be in AC2 at first as a full city and the game would've lasted until 1503), which also helped with planning a bit. Not to mention that ACB by the end of AC2 production cycle was planned as a series of DLC (called Assassin's Creed II Episodes) which then transformed into a full game.

Basically, ACB was a much more natural project to make and had a lot of things going for it production wise that made the year it had a very comfortable year (not EVERY game needs a 2-year cycle).

ACR, on the other hand, not only had a short cycle, it had a team that didn't work on AC games before, it had to create a city with architecture and culture not seen in previous games (though, they still managed to sneak some AC1 assets in Constantinople - and that's understandable, you cut corners where you can with a time frame like this), it was unexpected (a handheld title suddenly becoming a full-fledged console game)... I think it kinda shows that ACR team worked on ACIV (with help from FC3 team on later stages) - it has managed to do A LOT and is a very impressive piece of work given all the circumstances.

JustPlainQuirky
03-22-2014, 04:31 PM
because he was the creative director of AC3

...........and? :confused:

Dome500
03-22-2014, 04:31 PM
Revelations = 6 months

Actually it was 10 months, but you are right. At least 3 - 4 of those months were probably polishing and bug-testing...

Btw. Nice user-name Ms. TSoni ;) "I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite Username on the AC forums" :p


The vast majority of issues with AC3 were to do with the story and its plot holes and over exaggerations,

I know I'm saying that too often, but don't forget the completely broken Stealth and Detection System.
Anyway, ACR was just more fun and entertaining for me than AC3. NO offense. To each their own.


I feel on a scale of things that bother me about nitpicky things AC3 ranks as the Worst and ACR ranks fairly high. My scale of games with issues that bothered me with worst at the end and best at begining would look like this.
1. AC2(only because it looks worse than other ACs and most else is good)
2.ACB(felt right to me I liked the assassins could help you, decent plot)
3.ACR
4.AC4(seeing through things was annoying)
5.AC1
6.AC3
7.ACLiberationHD(you cant even run fast(you can walk or fast jog its rather annoying) this one doesn't technically count but I included it on the list probably unfairly since it was a vita game first.

Now in order of most fun((in my opinion) all other things ignored just the replay factor and scale/action packed-ness of missions)
1.AC4
2.AC3
3.AC2
4.ACB
5.AC1
6.ACR
7.ACLiberationHD(once again probably unfairly but still it was pretty bad all around IMO)

For me it's probably:

Issues (best to worst):

AC2 (Mostly good, bad graphics, less "AC1-feeling"
ACB (Improved on AC2 with graphics, though combat was too easy and Rome became boring after a while)
AC4 (Most side mission variety, more freedom than previous parts, but too much naval in the end and clunky combat in comparison with AC3)
ACR (Good Story and character development/closure, some good ideas, nice setting, though annoying and weird design decisions)
AC1 (Good interesting story, strong main character, mysterious atmo, philosophical talk, cool assassination and preparation missions, however too linear and repetitive)
AC3 (Broken Stealth, exaggerations, shoehorning Connor into historical events, unbalanced game pace, some other stuff)

Now my order of fun:

AC2
AC4
AC1
ACR
AC3

D.I.D.
03-22-2014, 04:32 PM
Assassin's Creed Revelations combines the absolute worst of the series with the absolute best
I absolutely hate some of the things in ACR and the overall direction....but I cannot ignore the fact that in terms of core gameplay it was the absolute pinnacle

Alex Amancio's return is fantastic news for me.

In what ways?

I remember a ton of really transparent time-wasting, which is probably exactly what those things were, on reflection: activities inserted purely to bulk out the play length, and not to provide any kind of enjoyment to the player. For example, the book-finding thing felt really insulting: climb this tall thing, look at four predetermined sites one by one until the game tells you that's where the book is, go there, dig it up. Obviously Black Flag did something very similar with its Mayan artefacts, but at least it was a single step. (I finally got round to playing and finishing Freedom Cry last night, and I noticed they recycled the Revelations boat chase in a condensed form at the Maroon hideout!) The notoriety felt suspiciously sensitive, and I think they made it jumpy so that you'd have to spend more time hunting and bribing heralds.

But Black Flag had room for the odd bit of fluff because there was so much genuinely good gameplay, on the seas and on land with excellent layouts that showed evidence of design as well as provision for alternative decisions on the part of the player. I can't remember seeing more than the odd flash of anything like that in Revelations. What were those pinnacle moments, for you?

I-Like-Pie45
03-22-2014, 04:35 PM
...........and? :confused:

just cause

D.I.D.
03-22-2014, 04:36 PM
...........and? :confused:

Today is Be Fair to Amancio Day. You'll have to wait for the thread "AC6's CD returns" for Be Fair to Hutchinson Day, when you'll hear things like, "Say what you like about the Revere mission, but don't forget AC3 is the one that gave us naval combat. And tree-running! Oh and the rope dart. And the first free-aim weapon. And... "

JustPlainQuirky
03-22-2014, 04:36 PM
just cause

Can't argue with that logic :rolleyes:


Today is Be Fair to Amancio Day. You'll have to wait for the thread "AC6's CD returns" for Be Fair to Hutchinson Day, when you'll hear things like, "Say what you like about the Revere mission, but don't forget AC3 is the one that gave us naval combat. And tree-running! Oh and the rope dart. And the first free-aim weapon. And... "

I don't get it :confused:

Edit: Oh I think I geddit. Kinda. Har. :)

Will_Lucky
03-22-2014, 04:38 PM
Hutchinson is still working at Ubisoft as a Creative Director, I'd imagine he is in charge of next years AC. Can't see him being in charge of Comet, Comet is probably being led by someone who got a promotion, sounds like the ideal kind of project to put a person with potential in charge of.

DumbGamerTag94
03-22-2014, 04:49 PM
I know I'm saying that too often, but don't forget the completely broken Stealth and Detection System.
Anyway, ACR was just more fun and entertaining for me than AC3. NO offense. To each their own.

Yes I took that into account I just hadn't included it in the post but trust me i'm well aware of that issue too. I was judging purely off of combat, mission intensity, and replay value. I do understand though that for example you seem to be a very big stealth fan because of your splinter cell pics and such, so that would cause your rankings to be different, I too think stealth is very very important to AC but I just don't feel its all it should be it isn't Splinter Cell after all(which I love by the way). You just seem to overvalue stealth a bit which explains your love of ACR which makes sense, yet it still is the most boring of the series IMO unless you are a super stealth stickler. Nothing wrong with your opinion it makes perfect sense and is definitely valid(like you said to each their own) just elaborating how peoples preference for different aspects can change their ranking scale in comparison to others.

Dome500
03-22-2014, 05:30 PM
Yes I took that into account I just hadn't included it in the post but trust me i'm well aware of that issue too. I was judging purely off of combat, mission intensity, and replay value. I do understand though that for example you seem to be a very big stealth fan because of your splinter cell pics and such, so that would cause your rankings to be different, I too think stealth is very very important to AC but I just don't feel its all it should be it isn't Splinter Cell after all(which I love by the way). You just seem to overvalue stealth a bit which explains your love of ACR which makes sense, yet it still is the most boring of the series IMO unless you are a super stealth stickler. Nothing wrong with your opinion it makes perfect sense and is definitely valid(like you said to each their own) just elaborating how peoples preference for different aspects can change their ranking scale in comparison to others.

I agree that Stealth should not be everything Assassins Creed is about. IMO combat and stealth should both be equally supported just FYI :D
As for overvaluing Stealth... Let's just say it is a crucial part of the experience for me. If I am forced into combat in AC I do not mind that if it serves the story. However if a system is included in the game but broken, then I do not enjoy it. :)

For me it's like Shobit7777777 said in another thread: "Revelations combined the worst of the series with the best of the series" , and the end product was a pretty mediocre game.
But considering it's development time I think it was good enough.

naran6142
03-22-2014, 06:38 PM
Well haven't been here for a really long time but I had to get in my 2 cents here...

I cringed at the thread title

For pretty much each reason listed in here

:o

ajl992008
03-22-2014, 08:23 PM
I actually welcome him returning, I loved revelations, sure it was a massive screw up to push lucy's betrayal to dlc but this is also ubisofts fault too, they could have simply covered this revelation at the beginning of ac3 properly but it was them who decided to deal with it in a dlc format. I liked the idea of getting desmond's back story. the only fault i had with revelations was the lack of side content but the side content that was there was very enjoyable. It was my favourite story, favourite setting, some of my favourite missions, the hook blade was just awesome and overall the game was well rounded, no loose ends, I felt satisfaction upon completing it. I like amancio as well, he made some mistakes but considering he did was he did in 10 months and hutchinson has 3 years and created a game that was not as enjoyable in ac3, on top of the added power of next generation allowing for his vision to be fully realised, i am confident this ac game will be amazing, it's his second one so he is familiar with the brand and he has the time and resources necessary to deliver.

RinoTheBouncer
03-22-2014, 08:39 PM
If the game is gonna be as epic as Revelation, then I’m so damn excited. Honestly, ACII and AC:R are the most epic AC games ever, followed by AC:B and ACIII.

AC:R, from historical missions to Animus levels to The Lost Archives was just PHENOMENAL.

naran6142
03-22-2014, 08:40 PM
I actually welcome him returning, I loved revelations, sure it was a massive screw up to push lucy's betrayal to dlc but this is also ubisofts fault too, they could have simply covered this revelation at the beginning of ac3 properly but it was them who decided to deal with it in a dlc format. I liked the idea of getting desmond's back story. the only fault i had with revelations was the lack of side content but the side content that was there was very enjoyable. It was my favourite story, favourite setting, some of my favourite missions, the hook blade was just awesome and overall the game was well rounded, no loose ends, I felt satisfaction upon completing it. I like amancio as well, he made some mistakes but considering he did was he did in 10 months and hutchinson has 3 years and created a game that was not as enjoyable in ac3, on top of the added power of next generation allowing for his vision to be fully realised, i am confident this ac game will be amazing, it's his second one so he is familiar with the brand and he has the time and resources necessary to deliver.

My main problem with ACR was not doing anything with subject 16. The guy was right there and Desmond didnt ask him anything then boom deleted. It was a waste

lothario-da-be
03-22-2014, 08:43 PM
The only major fault was The lost archive imo.
Den defense was nice, stalkers were cool, bombs added so much possibilities, the hookblade was a fun gimmick and the desmond missions weren't that bad.

VoXngola
03-22-2014, 08:51 PM
If the game is gonna be as epic as Revelation, then I’m so damn excited. Honestly, ACII and AC:R are the most epic AC games ever, followed by AC:B and ACIII.

AC:R, from historical missions to Animus levels to The Lost Archives was just PHENOMENAL.


Oh my god, there's someone else who loved the desmond parts in ACR along with the lost archive?

I want to hug you right now.

Also, there's something bugging me right now. They say that they've been working on the game for over 3 years, but Alexandre's linkedin profile says something different. I think, just like the "the following is alpha game footage", that this is a lie. They've been working on it for 2 years actually and while I think that the game will look damn amazing it won't look like the trailer.

Because you know, it'd be wierd to work on a game while the creative director for the project starts working on it 1 year later than the rest of the team...

Philliesfan377
03-22-2014, 09:09 PM
Revelations was good. Not great but still good. I wasn't a fan of some missions (looking at you flying behind a carriage), but I'm still optimistic! I think the Paris setting will work great! No need for panic yet,

Will_Lucky
03-22-2014, 09:13 PM
Oh my god, there's someone else who loved the desmond parts in ACR along with the lost archive?

I want to hug you right now.

Also, there's something bugging me right now. They say that they've been working on the game for over 3 years, but Alexandre's linkedin profile says something different. I think, just like the "the following is alpha game footage", that this is a lie. They've been working on it for 2 years actually and while I think that the game will look damn amazing it won't look like the trailer.

Because you know, it'd be wierd to work on a game while the creative director for the project starts working on it 1 year later than the rest of the team...

It could be a case of he started heading the project when he returned to the company but before hand was a small team just doing research and working on the engine ect, it could very well have started alongside AnvilNext alongside AC3. The first few months simply laying the groundwork before full production started.

oliacr
03-22-2014, 09:15 PM
What? This is just came to my mind. And now its real? Nice

DumbGamerTag94
03-22-2014, 09:17 PM
I agree that Stealth should not be everything Assassins Creed is about. IMO combat and stealth should both be equally supported just FYI :D
As for overvaluing Stealth... Let's just say it is a crucial part of the experience for me. If I am forced into combat in AC I do not mind that if it serves the story. However if a system is included in the game but broken, then I do not enjoy it. :)

For me it's like Shobit7777777 said in another thread: "Revelations combined the worst of the series with the best of the series" , and the end product was a pretty mediocre game.
But considering it's development time I think it was good enough.

I agree. Cept I don't really feel it was that terribly "broken" so much as buggy and clumsy it was still a workable stealth mechanic IMO. But like it says in Bold my opinion of ACR is that for what it is it is and what time they had to do it its "good enough" nothing more nothing less and for that reason it doesn't really rank very high for me in any way I rank the games. It was mediocre at best. AC3 since we talked about it is sort of in the same boat. While I find it very fun and replayable all the issues with it make me value it less so it never reaches the top of my rankings even though it could have had that potential.
My main point is that I didn't care for ACR it was meh. Whereas I did enjoy AC3, but with all the issues and plot holes it just seemed like a good game that was incomplete to me. I think if they would have polished and added some things(and taken away) from AC3 with an extra 6 months to a year of dev. it could have been the best IMO.

Basically for me AC3=Good, but ultimately disappointing because of issues and feeling of an unfinished game.
ACR=Nothing was truly wrong with it, but yet it bored me and I found it lacking overall it just didn't do it for me

Disappointment comes from expecting too much and too much hype not from something not being exciting, but boring and forgetability come from an overall flaw in concept and could never have been polished out. That is what I mean by Fun-vs-Nitpicking details like mechanics plot holes etc(.

I use AC3 as an example here but its not cuz i'm a AC3 fanboy or anything it still only ranks 3rd on my fun rankings, I could have used AC2 or 4 for that matter I just used it because it is the one that is most often demonized so makes a more stark comparison.

phoenix-force411
03-22-2014, 09:24 PM
Liked ACR better than ACB and ACIII. Pretty happy he's back...and not the ACIII director.

oliacr
03-22-2014, 09:28 PM
Liked ACR better than ACB and ACIII. Pretty happy he's back...and not the ACIII director.

Best of the series. Setting and story wise:) not gameplay because the newer games are better the older ones in gameplay.

Philliesfan377
03-22-2014, 09:30 PM
Best of the series. Setting and story wise:) not gameplay because the newer games are better the older ones in gameplay.

I agree about the setting. Constantinople was gorgeous. I never understand why people don't like it.

poptartz20
03-22-2014, 09:54 PM
ehh... I'm a little worried about this now. URGH.

I have so many mixed emotions about Revelations. I'll really have to wait to see on this one.

My excitement for this game has now dropped. (not completely but significantly)

I-Like-Pie45
03-22-2014, 09:56 PM
ehh... I'm a little worried about this now. URGH.

I have so many mixed emotions about Revelations. I'll really have to wait to see on this one.

My excitement for this game has now dropped. (not completely but significantly)

do you need a hug

frodrigues55
03-22-2014, 09:57 PM
I agree about the setting. Constantinople was gorgeous. I never understand why people don't like it.

Constantinople was really a stand out. The reason why I don't like it very much is because of that stupid river which made parkouring through the city a bit tedious in my opinion.

The game in general had a depressing tone, but I think that has more to do with being a closing chapter than anything else. I don't know exactly why it's my least favorite, it just is. Same reason I don't know why I can't really connect to Darby's stories even though his concepts and character are very well written.

Anyway, what makes me nervous about this news is just the lack of content Revelations provided. The side stuff was either bad or not there at all, but I'm hoping you guys are right. Perharps he just didn't have the time. So far, Unity seems like a good step towards the classic AC after a well deserved break with Black Flag. But it will suck if we go from BF's numerous well done side activities to a bunch of Revelations type of thing.

Philliesfan377
03-22-2014, 10:43 PM
Constantinople was really a stand out. The reason why I don't like it very much is because of that stupid river which made parkouring through the city a bit tedious in my opinion.

The game in general had a depressing tone, but I think that has more to do with being a closing chapter than anything else. I don't know exactly why it's my least favorite, it just is. Same reason I don't know why I can't really connect to Darby's stories even though his concepts and character are very well written.

Anyway, what makes me nervous about this news is just the lack of content Revelations provided. The side stuff was either bad or not there at all, but I'm hoping you guys are right. Perharps he just didn't have the time. So far, Unity seems like a good step towards the classic AC after a well deserved break with Black Flag. But it will suck if we go from BF's numerous well done side activities to a bunch of Revelations type of thing.

I think what contributes most to the depressing tone is what you said: its a closing chapter. After living through the life of Ezio and Altair, we're sending them off. Also, the story wasn't exactly on the bright side; Altair's especially. But I think thats what appealed to me most. The hardships that the Assassins had to go through, a reason AC3 was one of my favorites as well. On the side content part of it however, I have to agree. Revelations was pretty weak with that. But, hopefully they take a page from AC4's book minus the ridiculous amounts of animus fragments.

VoXngola
03-22-2014, 10:45 PM
It could be a case of he started heading the project when he returned to the company but before hand was a small team just doing research and working on the engine ect, it could very well have started alongside AnvilNext alongside AC3. The first few months simply laying the groundwork before full production started.


I also thought about this, you are probably right.

frodrigues55
03-22-2014, 10:54 PM
I think what contributes most to the depressing tone is what you said: its a closing chapter. After living through the life of Ezio and Altair, we're sending them off. Also, the story wasn't exactly on the bright side; Altair's especially. But I think thats what appealed to me most. The hardships that the Assassins had to go through, a reason AC3 was one of my favorites as well.

I was hoping they would go back to a time where the Brotherhood was a strong presence, though. I like that we have seen their strugles, but it has been too many games in row. To me, it looks like being in a crap place is the rule for the Order. If the rumors are all true, I'm lead to think they will go back to a strong organization, but we'll see!


On the side content part of it however, I have to agree. Revelations was pretty weak with that. But, hopefully they take a page from AC4's book minus the ridiculous amounts of animus fragments

And so they call back the director of the game that created those little bastards :p

killzab
03-22-2014, 10:55 PM
ACR was really good IMO.

To me, the worst game in the series is AC Liberation, now that is a pile of **** !

Philliesfan377
03-22-2014, 10:59 PM
I was hoping they would go back to a time where the Brotherhood was a strong presence, though. I like that we have seen their strugles, but it has been too many games in row. To me, it looks like being in a crap place is the rule for the Order. If the rumors are all true, I'm lead to think they will go back to a strong organization, but we'll see!



And so they call back the director of the game that created those little bastards :p

I do have to agree, it will be great to see a strong order. And I forgot the fragments were in ACR! They were pretty annoying in ACR haha.

poptartz20
03-22-2014, 11:00 PM
do you need a hug

DO YOU NEED A PUNCH IN THE FACE!?

lol. totally kidding.

maybe I do. ;_; haha.

VoXngola
03-22-2014, 11:03 PM
DO YOU NEED A PUNCH IN THE FACE!?

lol. totally kidding.

maybe I do. ;_; haha.

I'll hug you, man.

*hugs*

frodrigues55
03-22-2014, 11:03 PM
I do have to agree, it will be great to see a strong order. And I forgot the fragments were in ACR! They were pretty annoying in ACR haha.

They were even more annoying if you remember that they were necessary for you to access those stupid modern-day missions :p II you wanna do everything, you have to go collect all that crap to access something even crappier, but that sounds just like ACR's side content in general IMO

poptartz20
03-22-2014, 11:05 PM
I'll hug you, man.

*hugs*

there is a WO in front of that man! but thank you none the less. :D

shobhit7777777
03-22-2014, 11:08 PM
In what ways?

But Black Flag had room for the odd bit of fluff because there was so much genuinely good gameplay, on the seas and on land with excellent layouts that showed evidence of design as well as provision for alternative decisions on the part of the player. I can't remember seeing more than the odd flash of anything like that in Revelations. What were those pinnacle moments, for you?

Revelation's brilliance - to radiate through the countless layers of BS requires some amount of effort and insight on behalf of the player.
The sad truth is that majority of the players/fans of the franchise are simply not gameplay oriented, which is where Revelations shines.

The sheer mechanical strength was astounding. I distinctly recall watching Alex's interview (Can't locate it unfortunately) and remember him saying how each addition needed to tie into one of the three core pillars - stealth/combat/navigation.

Alex - IMO and Experience - showcased a SOLID grasp of not only understanding the core pillars of what made AC gameplay great but also an understanding and appreciation of systemic, open ended gameplay

Revelations opened up so many doors for the player by just the bomb crafting element alone. On the surface level its just another tacked on feature to add to the player's already OP arsenal but no one truly appreciates the tactical muscle and flexibility it provides you when you're trying to take over a Templar Den.

There are numerous examples of how ACR tried to incorporate more robust and creative approaches to the core AC formula...and more importantly recognized the fact that ACB's best part were the Borgia towers - Simple, assassin playgrounds.
The hookblade being used as not only a parkour tool but as an evasive/combat item when you're running around
The variety and nuanced effect of bombs and how they were an excellent way to manipulate AI - A KEY feature in any game where gameplay depth matters

The pinnacle of AC experience for me was covertly...patiently....studying the layout of a Templar den. Stalking the den captain and then figuring out an approach to take the guy out my way. The variety of weapons and tools gave me many experimental paths and the bomb crafting was simply superb in trying out new tactics.

Yes, ACR had all the ****ty trappings of its predecessors - casual, nonsensical, cliched, unimaginative BS stuffed into it...but thanks to its mechanical robustness it more than made up for it...and the game provided you a perfect playground to **** around with said mechanics.

From an eagle eye POV - you see how fantastically intricate everything is and how ACR is - gameplay wise - the best AC game. it provided the player a true AC sandbox.

Alex Amancio was CD of ACR......and his return is excellent news to me. ACR already did what AC4 just pulled off - a systemic, open ended Assassin game that made figuring your own attack plan out extremely fun and engaging.

Unfortunately, ACR's depth only pops up when people put in the time and effort to actually invest in the game

Philliesfan377
03-22-2014, 11:17 PM
They were even more annoying if you remember that they were necessary for you to access those stupid modern-day missions :p II you wanna do everything, you have to go collect all that crap to access something even crappier, but that sounds just like ACR's side content in general IMO

Oh yeah! I completely forgot thats what they were for. Pretty forgettable stuff.

frodrigues55
03-22-2014, 11:25 PM
Unfortunately, ACR's depth only pops up when people put in the time and effort to actually invest in the game

I don't think so. I think your opinion was pretty well written and thought out, but I can't agree with this bit. That seems to imply that if you didn't enjoy it, then you didn't know how to use it. It's the same argument I've seen the Connor FanClub use towards those who didn't enjoy the character, which is "you didn't understand how deep he was".

ACR has its good moments, but if I have to go through a bunch of tedious activities just to enjoy its depth, then it is simply not well done in my opinion. I think the game lacks in the same department you think it shines: the gameplay. To me, it was poorly implemented regardless of its good ideias. I agree that some of it do work very well, but overall, most of it didn't work to me regardless of how many bombs I could make.

doogsy91
03-23-2014, 01:22 AM
ACR is - gameplay wise - the best AC game. it provided the player a true AC sandbox.
I'm going to have to disagree with you there too, Shob.

The hookblade had some nice applications but I didn't strike me as an overly elegant solution to some of the issues it addressed (if you'd even call them issues). I esspecially hated how if you were running towards a ledge and wanted to drop down onto it, Ezio dropped and slid over the edge, using the hookblade to grab hold of it. That part was nice but it was an overly lengthy animation and once you were on the ledge you couldn't interrupt it and drop down further. So what was supposed to speed up the process of dropping to a ledge at speed just slowed it down and caused frustration.

Then there was the overabundance of rooftop guards and the god-aweful ranged weapon guards who would just walk backwards whilst shooting at you. Being locked into combat as you were in those earlier games and not being able to run you couldn't close in on them to have a swing at them with your sword. Granted, this was carried over from Brotherhood, but it was just such a terrible system that I can't comprehend why they kept it, especially considering they just upped the number of ranged weapon guards.

The problem was that Ezio had become so powerful that they just had to keep adding more and more guards which, in my opinion, yielded disastrous results. I think AC3 was infinitely better in this regard.

Oh and then there was the 25% increase in notoriety ever time you purchased a shop...

Locopells
03-23-2014, 01:27 AM
Most of ACR's problems came from changes forced upon it by time constrains or outside influences - I'm happy about this, if he's had since then to work on ACU, rather then the year he was given for ACR...

Legendz54
03-23-2014, 04:45 AM
Alex Amancio was played the hand he was dealt, he had to make a handheld game into a full game. The ending of ACR was one of my favourite AC game endings. Now He has the time and proper next gen resources, so i think he can pull it off.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
03-23-2014, 06:58 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with you there too, Shob.

The hookblade had some nice applications but I didn't strike me as an overly elegant solution to some of the issues it addressed (if you'd even call them issues). I esspecially hated how if you were running towards a ledge and wanted to drop down onto it, Ezio dropped and slid over the edge, using the hookblade to grab hold of it. That part was nice but it was an overly lengthy animation and once you were on the ledge you couldn't interrupt it and drop down further. So what was supposed to speed up the process of dropping to a ledge at speed just slowed it down and caused frustration.

Then there was the overabundance of rooftop guards and the god-aweful ranged weapon guards who would just walk backwards whilst shooting at you. Being locked into combat as you were in those earlier games and not being able to run you couldn't close in on them to have a swing at them with your sword. Granted, this was carried over from Brotherhood, but it was just such a terrible system that I can't comprehend why they kept it, especially considering they just upped the number of ranged weapon guards.

The problem was that Ezio had become so powerful that they just had to keep adding more and more guards which, in my opinion, yielded disastrous results. I think AC3 was infinitely better in this regard.

Oh and then there was the 25% increase in notoriety ever time you purchased a shop...

I agree about the ranged weapon guards but I have to say AC3's sucked as well. It was so hard to end a chase with the still-telepathic guards, enemy clusters were far larger (rather than being like 4-5 like they were in the Ezio trilogy -- there were now like 7-8), and then the eagle-eyed marksmen on the rooftops making the already dull rooftop traversal even more of a chore... THEN you had those firing lines that always happened... you'd be running from a group, round a corner and BOOM! Firing line. Almost every. Single. Time.

AC3 and ACR both sucked due to the prevalence of enemies with guns. I disliked AC3 more overall though due to the annoying roof enemies and how 98% of enemies had muskets and another percent had flintlocks.

Not sure how good AC4 was with this but because of that, I'm disappointed with ACU ALSO being set in the 1700's. I'm sure every guard is going to have amusket because...1700s.

I want to go back to a time where guns had a significantly smaller presence.

P.S. I didn't mind the notoriety build up in ACR since it's always been so easy to lower it in a matter of a couple minutes.

oliacr
03-23-2014, 12:20 PM
Oh and then there was the 25% increase in notoriety ever time you purchased a shop...

I've never had this.

Dev_Anj
03-23-2014, 12:22 PM
Well, which version of the game did you play? Many people had that feature.

Sushiglutton
03-23-2014, 12:25 PM
I've never had this.

Really? I remember this idiotic feature now that doogsy mentions it. Another silly feature was that you frequently couldn't reduce the notoriety to zero as there was like 5% left and then notoriety reducing stuff stopped regenrating.

Farlander1991
03-23-2014, 12:39 PM
I remember at my second ACR playthrough I just bought off pretty much almost everything before the Den Defense tutorial mission (and liberated all districts), because you don't get attacked at all until you complete the tutorial so notoriety doesn't really matter.

frodrigues55
03-23-2014, 12:39 PM
I've never had this.

It's possible that you just didn't notice? That's how the system was designed, there's even ingame pop ups telling you that every time a shop is purchased, you raise awareness that the Assassins are working on that region. That's why your dens get attacked, it tells the Templars that you are acting there. The more shops you renovate, the more awareness is raised.


I remember at my second ACR playthrough I just bought off pretty much almost everything before the Den Defense tutorial mission (and liberated all districts), because you don't get attacked at all until you complete the tutorial so notoriety doesn't really matter.

Oh, that's clever :eek: It sure isn't ideal to do all of that when you don't want to, but that's just how we dodge Den Defense in general, by doing stuff you don't want to do but prevents the minigame from happening :p

Farlander1991
03-23-2014, 12:47 PM
Oh, that's clever http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20130918.419/images/smilies/eek.png It sure isn't ideal to do all of that when you don't want to, but that's just how we dodge Den Defense in general, by doing stuff you don't want to do but prevents the minigame from happening http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20130918.419/images/smilies/tongue.png

Yeah. Honestly, I hated the whole buying off all the shops thing in ACB as well, so I did that not just to avoid lots of Den Defense (I honestly don't mind the mechanic itself that much as an idea, but the implementation is not deep enough to sustain more than several plays), but to get out of the way the whole buying shops thing.

So far ACR is the only AC game I haven't 100%-ed (sitting at 84% right now). One day, maybe :D

DavidPage
03-23-2014, 02:15 PM
Alex Amancio was played the hand he was dealt, he had to make a handheld game into a full game. The ending of ACR was one of my favourite AC game endings. Now He has the time and proper next gen resources, so i think he can pull it off.

These are my EXACT thoughts! The ending IS I think the best in the series in terms of how much resolution and satisfaction and hype (not the kind where you can't last another moment without the sequel, but the kind where you are satisfied enough to last another year of free roaming this one) you get from it.

SixKeys
03-23-2014, 02:21 PM
I don't think so. I think your opinion was pretty well written and thought out, but I can't agree with this bit. That seems to imply that if you didn't enjoy it, then you didn't know how to use it. It's the same argument I've seen the Connor FanClub use towards those who didn't enjoy the character, which is "you didn't understand how deep he was".

ACR has its good moments, but if I have to go through a bunch of tedious activities just to enjoy its depth, then it is simply not well done in my opinion. I think the game lacks in the same department you think it shines: the gameplay. To me, it was poorly implemented regardless of its good ideias. I agree that some of it do work very well, but overall, most of it didn't work to me regardless of how many bombs I could make.

^ This. I don't understand how anyone could call ACR a "true sandbox game". It had the least amount of side content in any AC game (excluding AC1), the story was very linear and the full sync constraints forced you to play missions a certain way. The Templar dens were definitely the most fun part of the game, but if you wanted to replay them, you had to go through Den Defense first. For someone like me, who had never played a tower defense type game before, that entire mechanic was confusing as hell. I've played through ACR several times, nearly always 100% sync (because I'm a completionist) , and I have yet to find this brilliance that supposedly lies beneath in wait of those who invest enough time into looking for it. The only mission that remains just as fun every time is Yerebatan Cistern because it closely resembles AC4's open-ended mission design.

Shohbit also brought up the idea the ACR devs had, which was that every new addition had to tie into the three core pillars of AC. The only addition that actually did this was the hookblade, which is why they advertised the **** out of it in every interview - because they had nothing else. The other additions? Desmond's Journey added nothing to stealth or combat. You could call it navigation, I suppose, but it didn't count as parkour. It was an extremely restrictive form of navigation compared to other movement innovations in the series, like AC3's treerunning and AC4's naval seamlessness. Den Defense had nothing whatsoever to do with stealth or navigation, it was pure combat. Bombs could be used for stealth or combat, but only a few combinations were in any way meaningful. (Honestly, did anyone ever use lamb's blood or caltrops?) The book quests had nothing to do with all three pillars. Finding them was just a matter of standing still and scanning your environment.

DavidPage
03-23-2014, 02:30 PM
Just to add a few more thoughts

*SPOILERS*

AC1 was just a cliffhanger in the modern day and an "OK" ending in teh ancestral story

ACII was the same only this time you were left with a more "WTF?!" moment with Ezio

ACB had a good ending with Ezio and I really thought it would be THE end with him going on to another ancestor. Modern day was THE cliffhanger

ACR was satisfying as hell in the Animus story seeing Ezio come in contact with both Altair (albeit through the Memory Disks - although Altair said he knew the memories were meant for someone later down the timeline) AND Desmond (seeing that he acknowledges him and understands him and his purpose) and modern day was a nice, smooth cliffhanger that was made in way that you just knew what the next instalment beheld

ACIII was mindblowing but a sad moment in modern day (and that's why it's not the best for me) and in Connor's story I was purely satisfied that Lee finally died (and I liked the little moment between them, where Lee shows respect to his ultimate foe) but it couldn't surpass Revelations

Finally, ACIVBF was a filler game IMO for the modern day but I liked it and it's easter eggs. Edward's ending was great but only because of the nostalgia it had and the sadness of it.

PS: Sorry for my writing style of a million parentheses, but I just can't stop doing it, with it being a literal, direct transcription of my thoughts...

Will_Lucky
03-23-2014, 02:35 PM
Alex Amancio was played the hand he was dealt, he had to make a handheld game into a full game. The ending of ACR was one of my favourite AC game endings. Now He has the time and proper next gen resources, so i think he can pull it off.

Yup, and as I've mentioned before. This will be the first Assassins Creed game with a returning Creative Director since Assassins Creed 2, this is the first leading person in the role since Patrice to do more than one game.

adventurewomen
03-23-2014, 02:35 PM
ehh... I'm a little worried about this now. URGH.

I have so many mixed emotions about Revelations. I'll really have to wait to see on this one.

My excitement for this game has now dropped. (not completely but significantly)
Totally Agreed!

I disliked ACR, it was just the story, gameplay and Ezio was worn out by the end. I liked the setting I just disliked everything else about ACR.

Dome500
03-23-2014, 03:26 PM
Anyway, what makes me nervous about this news is just the lack of content Revelations provided.

I think that is only due to the little time they had to make the game. I wouldn't worry, they had 10 months, for ACU they had 2,5 - 3 years.


Revelation's brilliance - to radiate through the countless layers of BS requires some amount of effort and insight on behalf of the player.
The sad truth is that majority of the players/fans of the franchise are simply not gameplay oriented, which is where Revelations shines.

The sheer mechanical strength was astounding. I distinctly recall watching Alex's interview (Can't locate it unfortunately) and remember him saying how each addition needed to tie into one of the three core pillars - stealth/combat/navigation.

Alex - IMO and Experience - showcased a SOLID grasp of not only understanding the core pillars of what made AC gameplay great but also an understanding and appreciation of systemic, open ended gameplay

Revelations opened up so many doors for the player by just the bomb crafting element alone. On the surface level its just another tacked on feature to add to the player's already OP arsenal but no one truly appreciates the tactical muscle and flexibility it provides you when you're trying to take over a Templar Den.

There are numerous examples of how ACR tried to incorporate more robust and creative approaches to the core AC formula...and more importantly recognized the fact that ACB's best part were the Borgia towers - Simple, assassin playgrounds.
The hookblade being used as not only a parkour tool but as an evasive/combat item when you're running around
The variety and nuanced effect of bombs and how they were an excellent way to manipulate AI - A KEY feature in any game where gameplay depth matters

The pinnacle of AC experience for me was covertly...patiently....studying the layout of a Templar den. Stalking the den captain and then figuring out an approach to take the guy out my way. The variety of weapons and tools gave me many experimental paths and the bomb crafting was simply superb in trying out new tactics.

Yes, ACR had all the ****ty trappings of its predecessors - casual, nonsensical, cliched, unimaginative BS stuffed into it...but thanks to its mechanical robustness it more than made up for it...and the game provided you a perfect playground to **** around with said mechanics.

From an eagle eye POV - you see how fantastically intricate everything is and how ACR is - gameplay wise - the best AC game. it provided the player a true AC sandbox.

Alex Amancio was CD of ACR......and his return is excellent news to me. ACR already did what AC4 just pulled off - a systemic, open ended Assassin game that made figuring your own attack plan out extremely fun and engaging.

Unfortunately, ACR's depth only pops up when people put in the time and effort to actually invest in the game

I agree. It's not my favorite but I agree that Revelations had a lot of gameplay depth (more than AC1, AC2, ACB and ACIII) in terms of mechanics and freedom of how to approach a situation.

That is one of the reasons why I am pushing so hard for a bigger arsenal of weapons and tools and for a better Stealth system as well as for Stealth approach support in 80 - 90% of the missions in the next game.

The problems of Revelations that overshadowed the good gameplay were:

1. The weird design decisions (den defense, etc)
2. The lack of side Missions (aside from the Assassin Missions)
3. The story - which some loved, others hated
4. The fact that it was the third time we had Ezio
5. NO enough innovation
6. The fact that - despite having the most character progression of all games - Desmond was in a coma and there was not real continuation of MD but rather and examination of Desmond. Not bad per se, but not what some people hoped for.
*7. Partially mediocre main mission design


^ This. I don't understand how anyone could call ACR a "true sandbox game". It had the least amount of side content in any AC game (excluding AC1), the story was very linear and the full sync constraints forced you to play missions a certain way. The Templar dens were definitely the most fun part of the game, but if you wanted to replay them, you had to go through Den Defense first. For someone like me, who had never played a tower defense type game before, that entire mechanic was confusing as hell. I've played through ACR several times, nearly always 100% sync (because I'm a completionist) , and I have yet to find this brilliance that supposedly lies beneath in wait of those who invest enough time into looking for it. The only mission that remains just as fun every time is Yerebatan Cistern because it closely resembles AC4's open-ended mission design.

Okay:

1. You do not have to go through den defense to do Assassins/Templar Dens again. In fact you have to ignore them
2. He is only talking about CORE gameplay here. That being, if you are in a small sandbox (the dens) and you have an objective. You have a lot of ways to fulfill it. And he is right there IMO. Core gameplay was one of the best of the series. Not THE best (I think the best was really AC4, the plantations being like the Templar Dens, but on the other hand AC4 lacked variety of tools, so that is another minus, still it was an improvement), but one of the best in terms of CORE gameplay.
3. The points you are mentioning is exactly what Shob was talking about. All those things you do not like, they totally cluttered the experienced and overshadowed how good the core mechanics were if you had no restrictions or story involved, but just gameplay. Which is what happened when you were conquering a Den.

Dev_Anj
03-23-2014, 03:29 PM
^ This. I don't understand how anyone could call ACR a "true sandbox game". It had the least amount of side content in any AC game (excluding AC1), the story was very linear and the full sync constraints forced you to play missions a certain way. The Templar dens were definitely the most fun part of the game, but if you wanted to replay them, you had to go through Den Defense first. For someone like me, who had never played a tower defense type game before, that entire mechanic was confusing as hell. I've played through ACR several times, nearly always 100% sync (because I'm a completionist) , and I have yet to find this brilliance that supposedly lies beneath in wait of those who invest enough time into looking for it. The only mission that remains just as fun every time is Yerebatan Cistern because it closely resembles AC4's open-ended mission design.

Shohbit also brought up the idea the ACR devs had, which was that every new addition had to tie into the three core pillars of AC. The only addition that actually did this was the hookblade, which is why they advertised the **** out of it in every interview - because they had nothing else. The other additions? Desmond's Journey added nothing to stealth or combat. You could call it navigation, I suppose, but it didn't count as parkour. It was an extremely restrictive form of navigation compared to other movement innovations in the series, like AC3's treerunning and AC4's naval seamlessness. Den Defense had nothing whatsoever to do with stealth or navigation, it was pure combat. Bombs could be used for stealth or combat, but only a few combinations were in any way meaningful. (Honestly, did anyone ever use lamb's blood or caltrops?) The book quests had nothing to do with all three pillars. Finding them was just a matter of standing still and scanning your environment.

Great post SixKeys.

And also for people who are saying that the flaws of Assassin's Creed: Revelations were only due to short development cycle and mainly were a lack of content, keep in mind that the mission design and the level design was pretty poor. Seriously, just look at the mission where you tail someone to cut flowers from a garden, or the mission where you swoop above guards while parasailing with a carriage for no reason.

Sure, I'll give the creative director a chance. But Assassin's Creed: Revelations flaws were much more than just a lack of content.

frodrigues55
03-23-2014, 03:39 PM
I think that is only due to the little time they had to make the game. I wouldn't worry, they had 10 months, for ACU they had 2,5 - 3 years.

Yeah, but the content was not only lacking, but was also poor in my opinion. I will say the tomb missions were good, and the mission with the recruits were also pretty cool when they eventually happened. Let's see, I'm a bit more calm now lol. I was just surprised by the news.

Dome500
03-23-2014, 03:44 PM
Yeah, but the content was not only lacking, but was also poor in my opinion. I will say the tomb missions were good, and the mission with the recruits were also pretty cool when they eventually happened. Let's see, I'm a bit more calm now lol. I was just surprised by the news.

A creative director doesn't make the whole game. You'll need the creative dev team as well, the level designers (which could be completely different), the gameplay designers (mechanics and systems) the artists, the story writers and of course the LEAD director.

frodrigues55
03-23-2014, 04:36 PM
A creative director doesn't make the whole game. You'll need the creative dev team as well, the level designers (which could be completely different), the gameplay designers (mechanics and systems) the artists, the story writers and of course the LEAD director.

So not everything is lost, then :p I'm sure I will be pleasant surprised now that my expectations are lower.

On a different note, I quoted you while you were editing your previous post. On the quote I made, I was able to see what you were writting before it was done and before you published it. :eek: I was so confused, now that the post is completed, I understood what happened. That was sacary, I didn't know that was possible.